If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 19:38
VIEWED: 30749
PAGE 3 of 4
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
I feel sorry for Rapo. He's driven by fear, which can apparently only be assuaged by burying himself into the middle of the biggest, toughest herd he can find. And now, he's thinking that his herd may be dissolving from around him. No wonder he's so paranoid. He sees every question as a defection from the group that's between him and the other.j
I love how some of you pocket psychologist have it all figured out, or so you think. Herd or no, dealing head on w/ the problems facing our country is the best solution. There's no paranoia here, just understanding. SOME want to deny it, placate those who vow to murder us , at any expense, and simply go on living their day, as if it were like any other. I'm just glad my country has leaders who are willing to do the right thing.
Prove it.
Mike
Prove what, exactly ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by mazaen:
Can I ask you a question? Do you think terrorists are evil or just acting in defense? Because I don't think bombing people to make others conform to a religious belief is defending islam or a country. I think it as offensive as an attack. There is no goodness in that at all. But if a terrorist was acting in defence when people were killing his family then this would be good. The difference between defence and offence is when you hope to repel the ememy by the size of your peace time army or by taking action that you hope will reduce the offensive actions of the other party on your country. If you don't think the action will help stop someone from killing you then it is more like revenge.
So, how does this apply to Iraq? They didn't attack us, so there goes that. And those who have killed Americans have been striking out against those who invaded their country, so there's your self-defense.
Your points do not match up.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
I believe the terrorist connection has something to do with the camps for training terrorists and the known harboring of terrorists in Iraq, as well as the believed program for developing weapons of mass destruction such as the chemical weapons they used on the Kurds and the few kilograms of uranium it was thought he had from the time after the Israeli Fighter pilots bombed the Iraqi nuclear power plant. I think the real reason for our attacking Iraq was to get rid of the Iraqi Regime in place there and make an attempt at rebuilding the Government to that of a modern “Democracy,” so that the Middle Eastern nations surrounding Iraq would have a model to follow and some pressures to adapt. I also think there may be a tactical decision to attack Iraq so that we already have a large footprint in the area incase a larger war breaks out because I don’t think Kuwait was large enough for our military.
Personally I do think that we should allow duels and if a person isn't strong enough to accept the duel or not inclined then I think we should have the lawyers fight in ouer duels.
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
I feel sorry for Rapo. He's driven by fear, which can apparently only be assuaged by burying himself into the middle of the biggest, toughest herd he can find. And now, he's thinking that his herd may be dissolving from around him. No wonder he's so paranoid. He sees every question as a defection from the group that's between him and the other.j
I love how some of you pocket psychologist have it all figured out, or so you think. Herd or no, dealing head on w/ the problems facing our country is the best solution. There's no paranoia here, just understanding. SOME want to deny it, placate those who vow to murder us , at any expense, and simply go on living their day, as if it were like any other. I'm just glad my country has leaders who are willing to do the right thing.
Prove it.
Mike
Prove what, exactly ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Prove that your country has leaders that want to do the right thing.
"Prove it" has become your standard response to anything you disagree with, so I thought it would be a good thing to throw back your way.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
I feel sorry for Rapo. He's driven by fear, which can apparently only be assuaged by burying himself into the middle of the biggest, toughest herd he can find. And now, he's thinking that his herd may be dissolving from around him. No wonder he's so paranoid. He sees every question as a defection from the group that's between him and the other.j
I love how some of you pocket psychologist have it all figured out, or so you think. Herd or no, dealing head on w/ the problems facing our country is the best solution. There's no paranoia here, just understanding. SOME want to deny it, placate those who vow to murder us , at any expense, and simply go on living their day, as if it were like any other. I'm just glad my country has leaders who are willing to do the right thing.
Prove it.
Mike
Prove what, exactly ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
Prove that your country has leaders that want to do the right thing.
"Prove it" has become your standard response to anything you disagree with, so I thought it would be a good thing to throw back your way.
Mike
No, it was YOU who made the assertion first that I was 'scared' , and not driven by reason , facts or prudence. When a group tells you they are at war w/ you, want to destroy you and have shown they mean to do EXACTLY that, you had better pay attention. That's all I'm saying we do , is focus in on the issue here.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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"Glad America has Gitmo to hold, torture, and poke at the animals of humanity."
Would that be the people in Gitmo, or the people running Gitmo ?
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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"When a group tells you they are at war w/ you, want to destroy you and have shown they mean to do EXACTLY that, you had better pay attention."
Pay no attention to whether or not they have the means to actually do what they say ! It's irrelevant !
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
There's really no discussion; if you support lies, torture & war profiteering, then you are in Congress with the Beast. You are evil by mis-interpreting reality, or by embracing greed by way of death.
May God have mercy, 'cause Bush won't.
Biped Planetisall
Somethings never change. Do they? Your posts still reek of flame bait and your mind is still a cess pool of immaturity...that I am sure of.
So, how have you been?
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Quote:I don't disagree with any particular point sir.
Originally posted by kaneman:
Somethings never change. Do they? Your posts still reek of flame bait and your mind is still a cess pool of immaturity...
Quote:Pretty good...great in fact- I just got Burn Notice on DVD!!!
So, how have you been?
Haven't seen you here much...you okay?
Isn't life a miraculous thing? (a little Dancing Demon there for U Buffy fans...)
Friendly neighbourhood Chrisisall
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Quote:
No, it was YOU who made the assertion first that I was 'scared' , and not driven by reason , facts or prudence.
Refresh my memory; when and where was it exactly that I made this assertion? If you're referring to the first quoted part of your post, those words belong to someone else, not me. Not that I don't find some truth in them, but I didn't write them.
Quote:
When a group tells you they are at war w/ you, want to destroy you and have shown they mean to do EXACTLY that, you had better pay attention. That's all I'm saying we do , is focus in on the issue here.
Kind of what I've been saying since September 12. And what does that have to do with Iraq, exactly? If Saddam told us after Gulf War Pt. 1 that he was still at war with us, he did a singularly shitty job of convincing anyone. We were able to fly unmolested through the No-Fly Zones for about a decade, during which time Saddam's "elite" forces would occasionally fire up their targeting radars, only to be immediately answered with an ARM (Anti-Radar Missile) being jammed down their throats. Saddam wasn't even a threat to Americans in his own country, much less to America itself.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
We were able to fly unmolested through the No-Fly Zones for about a decade, during which time Saddam's "elite" forces would occasionally fire up their targeting radars,....
That act right there, was against the cease fire agreements from the 1st Gulf War. Locking tone on ANY Coalition ship was strictly forbidden, and yet Iraq forces did this CONSTANTLY, even firing off a few shots, now and then. That's just one of a long long list of things Saddam was doing which had nothing to do w/ 9/11
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Iraq is pumping over 2 million barrels of oil a day now. Why can't America then get a break on our prices? We've spent 1/2 trillion dollars to give these people a chance for freedom, with 10,000+ dead & wounded soldiers for the cause. War for oil? I wish!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:I don't disagree with any particular point sir.
Originally posted by kaneman:
Somethings never change. Do they? Your posts still reek of flame bait and your mind is still a cess pool of immaturity...Quote:Pretty good...great in fact- I just got Burn Notice on DVD!!!
So, how have you been?
Haven't seen you here much...you okay?
Isn't life a miraculous thing? (a little Dancing Demon there for U Buffy fans...)
Friendly neighbourhood Chrisisall
A) Who are you calling sir?
B) I hope you did'nt buy Burn Notice...I just downloaded it for free from Piratebay.org....Well, it's true......
C) Just got out of HCC (Hartford County Correctional....) was there for four months. And, No I did'nt get raped......not saying if I raped though
. Fair enough?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.
Do I REALLY need to point out the (lack of) WMD's in Iraq, or the "Mission Accomplished" banner. C'mon AU, I'll give you more credit than THAT!
Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD
Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.
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Quote:So does that make you happy or sad?
Originally posted by kaneman:
And, No I did'nt get raped...
------------------------------
This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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Keep it simple for the simpletons. Why Iraq? Well if we look into the recent history books, we see class that the sanctions were breaking down from lack of European support. And then there were all our oil loving Chinese and East Indian brothers getting ready to cut deals with Iraq and it may have been a little tougher to invade, leaving their bodies in the wake. We would have been left out of the pie. Why? Cause the Iraqies were a little upset about Clinton and crew staving to death 500,000+ of their citizens over the period of sanctions. Who will mourn for these people you racist, ethnocentric heathens. As President Grant reflected that the Civil War was America's divine punishment for perpetrating the Mexican American War, I'm wondering what's in store for we who have killed so many and sent our children to be slaughtered.
You speak of nothing, you know nothing. Go dream of Buffy and George and Prison Sex America. As my 19 year old daughter reflected on the crap she was watching on T.V. "We're doomed."
Captain B
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OH GOD!! I have had it with this thread!! YOU SUCK!! SUCK ME!!!
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"I am not from your tribe"
Tori Amos
Captain B
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Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
OH GOD!! I have had it with this thread!! YOU SUCK!! SUCK ME!!!
Spoken with all the eloquence of a nine-year-old... and thus bumping the thread once again and keeping it alive!
Ironic...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by jossisagod:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.
Do I REALLY need to point out the (lack of) WMD's in Iraq, or the "Mission Accomplished" banner. C'mon AU, I'll give you more credit than THAT!
Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
As for 'Mission Accomplished' ? A great job done by the fine sailors and airmen on board the USS Abe Lincoln. Props and Hooo Rah!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by jossisagod:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't support lies, and Bush has not told any.
Do I REALLY need to point out the (lack of) WMD's in Iraq, or the "Mission Accomplished" banner. C'mon AU, I'll give you more credit than THAT!
Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
As for 'Mission Accomplished' ? A great job done by the fine sailors and airmen on board the USS Abe Lincoln. Props and Hooo Rah!
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
"Every single intelligence agency in the whole world"... That's a lie, an utter fabrication. In the space of a few days, you've gone from "most intel agencies" to "every single intelligence agency in the world". Nice leap.
As for the "Mission Accomplished" fiasco, nice try on the whole revisionist history thing.
Here's what Bush had to say as he stood in front of that banner - the one which the White House NOW says they had nothing to do with, and it wasn't intended to mean what everyone took it to mean, and they couldn't have it taken down because the President, while he has the power to send troops into battle, doesn't have the power to have a banner removed from a ship over which he is Commander In Chief - here are his words, and I quote:
Quote:
Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.
So again, you're lying, and so's Bush. Go figure...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
"Every single intelligence agency in the whole world"... That's a lie, an utter fabrication. In the space of a few days, you've gone from "most intel agencies" to "every single intelligence agency in the world". Nice leap
Every intel agency worth it's salt. There, feel better ? Either way, it's not a lie, it's only something which you don't want to accept, can't accept, because it shatters your silly, Leftist, Hate-America First world view. Sorry, but them's the facts.
Quote:
Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed
So again, you're lying, and so's Bush. Go figure
I wasn't lying, nor was Bush. Major combat operations HAD ended, especially if you take into account the work as far as the USS Abe Lincoln goes. The Iraqi army had been defeated, there was no uniformed military left to fight the coalition forces. You not liking the facts doesn't make me or Bush a liar. Go figure.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
...it's only something which you don't want to accept, can't accept, because it shatters your silly, Leftist, Hate-America First world view. Sorry, but them's the facts.
You need to look up the definition of "facts" then, douche - all you've provided is opinion. Opinion and lies, as usual. No wonder you're a Bushie...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Every intel agency worth it's salt. There, feel better ?
So you're admitting that your earlier claim was a lie, then. An exaggeration. A fabrication. A lie. Pulled out of your ass.
Them's the facts. Deal with it.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Every intel agency worth it's salt. There, feel better ?
So you're admitting that your earlier claim was a lie, then. An exaggeration. A fabrication. A lie. Pulled out of your ass.
Them's the facts. Deal with it.
Mike
No lie here. Russia, Israel, Great Britain , U.S.A, France, ...I don't know which major nation's intelligence agency you think DIDN'T agree that Saddam had WMD, but if you find one, by all means, post it here. Otherwise, STFU.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
...it's only something which you don't want to accept, can't accept, because it shatters your silly, Leftist, Hate-America First world view. Sorry, but them's the facts.
You need to look up the definition of "facts" then, douche - all you've provided is opinion. Opinion and lies, as usual. No wonder you're a Bushie...
Mike
Usually its funny to watch children struggle w/ the facts when having to face them for the first time. Usually, that is. Children lash out at others, call them names, and blame them for the world not being what they were told it was, when the real blame lies only on themselves.
Stick w/ the facts, Mike. Every day, it'll be easier for you to come to grips w/ how things really are.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Usually its funny to watch children struggle w/ the facts when having to face them for the first time. Usually, that is. Children lash out at others, call them names, and blame them for the world not being what they were told it was, when the real blame lies only on themselves.
Stick w/ the facts. Every day, it'll be easier for you to come to grips w/ how things really are.
Good advice. You should heed it. When you're not huddled in the corner crying over and over, "Bush didn't lie! Bush didn't lie! Bush didn't lie!"
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Either way, it's not a lie, it's only something which you don't want to accept, can't accept, because it shatters your silly, Leftist, Hate-America First world view. Sorry, but them's the facts...
Hehe... Rappy, you so funny! Whenever you get backed into a corner you start puking up this Leftist America Hater nonsense.
Well, here's the thing, the thing you never, ever want to address. IT'S NOT AMERICA WE HATE. IT'S THE ASSHATS WHO ARE SELLING HER DOWN THE RIVER BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF THEIR OWN SHADOWS. And it doesn't take a leftist to feel this way - I'm about as far from a leftist as you can get.
Bush is a lying piece of shit. But he's still a couple of rungs above the spineless sycophants still defending him. You're not defending your country's honor when you go to bat for dubya, you're defending a traitor and those who have conspired to use a national tragedy to further their own ends.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Either way, it's not a lie, it's only something which you don't want to accept, can't accept, because it shatters your silly, Leftist, Hate-America First world view. Sorry, but them's the facts...
Hehe... Rappy, you so funny! Whenever you get backed into a corner you start puking up this Leftist America Hater nonsense.
Well, here's the thing, the thing you never, ever want to address. IT'S NOT AMERICA WE HATE. IT'S THE ASSHATS WHO ARE SELLING HER DOWN THE RIVER BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF THEIR OWN SHADOWS. And it doesn't take a leftist to feel this way - I'm about as far from a leftist as you can get.
Bush is a lying piece of shit. But he's still a couple of rungs above the spineless sycophants still defending him. You're not defending your country's honor when you go to bat for dubya, you're defending a traitor and those who have conspired to use a national tragedy to further their own ends.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Bingo! Sarge for the WIN!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:You're rite, what the hell was I thinking, this thread has over stayed it's welcome.
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
OH GOD!! I have had it with this thread!! YOU SUCK!! SUCK ME!!!
Spoken with all the eloquence of a nine-year-old... and thus bumping the thread once again and keeping it alive!
Ironic...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:Actually that turns out to not be the case, even the US intelligence community was of the opinion that it was an emphatic maybe.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually that turns out to not be the case, even the US intelligence community was of the opinion that it was an emphatic maybe
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
Well, at least AU is consistent - consistently WRONG, that is...
I know there were SOME in the US intel community who were just sure that Saddam had 'em, but there was hardly a consensus, even within the American intel apparatus.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Actually that turns out to not be the case, even the US intelligence community was of the opinion that it was an emphatic maybe
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, point out the lack of WMDs all you want, but that's not what every single intelligence agency in the whole world said before we went to war.
Well, at least AU is consistent - consistently WRONG, that is...
I know there were SOME in the US intel community who were just sure that Saddam had 'em, but there was hardly a consensus, even within the American intel apparatus.
Mike
Oh, YOU'RE sure, are you ? Sounds more like your OPINION rather than fact. The agencies release reports which speak to the cumulative reporting by all their sources. 'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers. They look at all the intel, across the board.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Rap, you never answered my question: How izzit that we agree with you that we should tackle jihadism head-on?
That must be a tough one for you.
PS, for someone who is 99% bloviating opinion you can hardly take the tactic of dismissing "opinion". You have yet to bring facts to the stable PROVING your point that WMD exists... or proving almost any other point of yours for that matter. (BTW, how's that economy going? On fire, right?)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rap, you never answered my question: How izzit that we agree with you that we should tackle jihadism head-on?
That must be a tough one for you.
PS, for someone who is 99% bloviating opinion you can hardly take the tactic of dismissing "opinion". You have yet to bring facts to the stable PROVING your point that WMD exists... or proving almost any other point of yours for that matter. (BTW, how's that economy going? On fire, right?)
First of all, you keep asking how the economy is doing , every 6 - 12 months, you're bound to get a different answer, every time. Yet you keep asking . Why ? ( Still no recession, if you must know, and MY personal economy has never been better. )
Second, I'm unaware that you ARE for tackling the jihadism problem head on. If you honestly are, then that's good news to hear. Though I remain skeptical.
Do you honestly expect me to rehash and reproduce the reams of intel / reports/ information on such things as the WMD issue EVERY GOD DAMN TIME YOU ASK FOR IT ? We've only had this discussion for 5+ years and counting, and I'm sorry if you some how missed the specifics over that time.
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
What next... PROVE we really landed on the moon?
PROVE Kennedy was shot by only one assassin ? PROVE Joanie loved Chachi ? WTF is your deal ? Get over yourself and stop 'bloviating' all the time.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:There is, of course the argument that the final report swings one way or t'other on political ground, the fact is there was much more debate and uncertainty than your statement suggests, and even the final US intelligent report was far closer to maybe than what was told to the public at large. For instance the insistence that Iraq was a present and immediate threat did not come from US Intelligence, in fact I think the NIE report said the exact opposite.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, YOU'RE sure, are you ? Sounds more like your OPINION rather than fact. The agencies release reports which speak to the cumulative reporting by all their sources. 'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers. They look at all the intel, across the board.
Prior to 2002 the Intelligence Assessments were very much along the lines of Maybe, or not sure. It wasn't until late 2002 (the October NIE report) that things became more definite, about the time Iraq was beginning to fall under the cross-hairs.
Contrasted to UN findings which were more like no and probably not, I think it's safe to say that by no stretch of the imagination that 'every intelligence service worth it's salt agreed'. Even most of the stuff said to come from the British never came British Military Intelligence.
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Quote:The invasion of Iraq was not sponsored by the UN.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
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Quote:Been there, done that. I even got the T-shirt and mug.
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
What I read was that intel was fluid but was about to be stablized. That KEY elements of the Bush "case for war" had been thoroughly disproved: the Niger evidence was a known forgery (and a clumsy one at that), the aluminum tubes did NOT have the right specs to be nuclear fuel centrifuge tubes (and no matter how much Bush and his cronies plug their ears and hum real loud you CANNOT make a silk purse out of a sow's ear), that the UN itself was willing to wait for Saddam's compliance to be determined, that Curveball was a known liar, and that everything Colin Powell showed the UN... from the vial of powder to the "mobile facilites" was either a flat-out lie (Saddam never made weaponized anthrax spores) or total speculation.
All YOU ever come up with is musty old scare stories. Stories that had been repeated like a bad game of "gossip". Stories that either had no basis in fact, or were about to be tested by real-time intel.
That's the difference between me and you. As a scientist, I look for facts. As an ideaologue, you look for opinion.
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Quote:See? It's right here...It's all about YOU. YOU fear for your way of life ending so YOU see jihadists around every border, ready to take it from you, and YOU see Bush as your defender, and YOU see peeps that disagree as Amerika-haters.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
( Still no recession, if you must know, and MY personal economy has never been better. )
You really need to adjust you contrast dude, all you have now is blacks & whites.
isall
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Quote:
'Individuals' in the intel community aren't scale tippers.
Okay, so what was it that George Tenet said again? He IS an individual, right? And it's been your claim all along that HE said it was a "slam dunk" and that's what Bush based his invasion on.
Seems SOME individuals in the intel community ARE scale-tippers... but only so long as they tip it the way you want it tipped.
Also, you maintain that YOUR personal economy has never been better, so that proves to you that Bush is the second coming and that everything he's done has been right. Flip that around a bit, and you can see why someone whose personal economy has never been worse could blame Bush for all that is wrong. You seem unwilling or unable to accept that.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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having a political veiw isnt evil even if that veiw may seem wrong to somone else.i personally dont like ethier side democrats or republicans as both seem to favour the will of big buisness over the working man.and the iraq war has nothing to do with freedom and a lot to do with much wanted arms sale and oil well reserves.the iraqi people should have been allowed to fight for their own freedom rather than us imposeing our will onto them with our type of macdonalds democracy.but to support this isnt evil its just miguided by people like our old freinds foxnews who continue to blur the line between opinion and facts.but you must always uphold peoples rights to air their opinions no matter how abhorent they are to you
im a noob get over it
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:The invasion of Iraq was not sponsored by the UN.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Go to the UN site, read the 17 Resolutions yourself, read the 15-0 Security Council vote....
Actually, it was.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Oh for crying out loud. No AU, the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was not sanctioned by the UN, that's why it was the coalition of the willing, not a UN or NATO task force.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it was.
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Quote:You're damn right i'm unwilling to accept that, because there's very little chance of that point being even remotely true. I never credited Bush for my own economy, just stated that it's been the best ever. But as a matter of fact, Bush HAS done right by the country, whihch is riding a 25 + yr time span of economic growth, unparalleled in this country's history. The Bush tax cuts, for example have been great for this country. The upper 1% of the income earners are paying 39% of all income taxes paied to the Gov't. That seems pretty darn fair to me. Also,lower 50% of income earners are burdened w/ a whopping 3 % of the tax bill. Not 30%, not 13%, but THREE PERCENT !
Also, you maintain that YOUR personal economy has never been better, so that proves to you that Bush is the second coming and that everything he's done has been right. Flip that around a bit, and you can see why someone whose personal economy has never been worse could blame Bush for all that is wrong. You seem unwilling or unable to accept that.
So spare me the sob stories from pockets of economic trouble, like in Michigan. Those places are not benefitting primarily because they're clinging to the economic model that the Democrats want to put the whole COUNTRY under. I guess when everyone is hurting, your own pain doesn't look that bad.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Oh for crying out loud. No AU, the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was not sanctioned by the UN, that's why it was the coalition of the willing, not a UN or NATO task force.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it was.
Yes, it was.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Just deal with the fact that you are wrong and move on:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, it was.
Quote:That's Kofi Annan, the then Secretary General of the UN.
"I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time - without UN approval and much broader support from the international community," he added.
He said he believed there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections.
And it should have been up to the Security Council to approve or determine the consequences, he added.
When pressed on whether he viewed the invasion of Iraq as illegal, he said: "Yes, if you wish. I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter from our point of view, from the charter point of view, it was illegal."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm
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I am not wrong.
Saddam was removed from power because he failed to provide the evidence that he had destroyed those weapons. The U.N. resolutions required this of him, and he failed to comply. Those same resolutions said that any member nation could use force to compel him to comply ...and that's exactly what some member nations did.
Of course, Kofi Annan saying that the Iraq war was illeal, even thougth it followed the letter of the U.N.'s own resolutions, is a bit hard to take, as Kofi and his own son were knee deep in the biggest scandal of all time, the Food for Oil scam.
How's that investigation going ? Oh yeah, the U.N. has power to investigate itself. 
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Jog on AURaptor. Unless you've got something better than "but but but OIL FOR FOOD!!111!!" and childish exclamaitions of "yes they did!", give it up.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I am not wrong.
The UN voted against it, the UN didn't sanction the invasion of Iraq. Saying they did because you don't agree with their decision not to, just makes you sound insane. THE UN VOTED NOT TO INVADE IRAQ. THE SECURITY COUNCIL VOTED AGAINST MILITARY ACTION IN IRAQ.
Get a grip AU. You can say they made the wrong decision all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that they made a decision, and it wasn't to invade Iraq.
Saddam was removed from power because the US coalition invaded, against the Security Mandate to not invade. There was no UN sanction to invade, I don't give half a shit if you, the president and the Easter Bunny think there should of been, the Security council voted no. Until you can show me proof, that in fact the Security council voted yes to an invasion in Iraq your just blowing smoke out of your arse.
Member states don't get to decide the enforcement of UN mandates, that is what the Security Council is for. The only sanctioning of unilateral force with in the mandate is if a member is actually attacked, and that didn't occur. The invasion was based on the possibility of an attack, not an actual one, and that is not covered. Even so that wouldn't have been a UN sanctioned action, merely one that didn't break the UN Charter. The only way for the invasion to be sanctioned by the UN is if the security council vote for it, WHICH THEY DIDN'T DO! Member nations do not have the authority to override the security council, not even if they're run by George Bush and think they're the centre of the Universe.
Since it seems to need repeating I'll do so. The only way the UN could have sanctioned the invasion of Iraq, is by the security council to vote to invade in 2003. The security council voted NOT to invade in 2003, prove me wrong, show us some evidence of a yes vote for the invasion of Iraq in 2003, or stop bloody lying, because continually saying "yes they did" when even a four year old can tell the Security Council voted no, is really beginning to get on my pecks.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Like Cit said, there was NO mandate to invade. If there had been, it would have been a UN force.
How the plainly obvious manages to evade you so often and for so long continues to amaze. Cutting taxes didn't hurt the Federal budget. Saddam had stockpiles of WMD in 2002 and posed a credible threat to the USA. You could destroy a city with the WMD in a small UPS truck.
I'm glad to say that you and your delusions are in the vanishing minority.
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It was my understanding that there were some weapons found in Iraq. A truck with chemical and biological weapons was found travelling around Iraq at the time of the war. I don't think that was really important though as I don't believe one truck was the reason America invaded Iraq.
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There were "some" weapons found in Iraq... 10-15 year-old relics: drums, warheads etc that sometimes contained traces of degraded Sarin. These were leftovers that were abandoned during the rout of the first Gulf War. In one case troops found a pretty potent drum of mustard gas, which is the one chemical warfare agent that is stable over decades. Kay and Duelfer found some pieces of nuclear technology buried in a rose garden. All in all, they didn't find anything that resembled WMD research or production and NOTHING resembling "stockpiles" and no trucks filled with chemical or biowarfare agents.
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I agree with you 100% Chisisall.
Its weird...so many people hate him...I wonder how he even became president? (I can't remember I was nine at the time. :P ) But even at nine I knew he was no good and didn't like him. Then when I was 13 he got a second term...what the heck? 
What were you adults thinking?! :P
(Don't take my post too seriously. Its all good fun. )
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Wash is the tater to my tot! <3
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
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citizen
We're going round and round on this, so i'll present the most concise explanation I can on the matter.
Resolution 687, passed in 1991, is the centerpiece here. This is the resolution passed after the United States had liberated Kuwait and while our troops were poised to advance to Baghdad to take care of business with Saddam. Saddam agreed to a plan whereby he would surrender or destroy all weapons of mass destruction, and all implements, machinery and whatnot associated with those weapons programs, forthwith. Saddam's first obligation under Resolution 687 was to provide the UN with a "declaration on the locations, amounts and types of all (WMDs) and agree to urgent, on-site inspection(s)" as specified in the resolution.
Saddam's deadline under 687 was fifteen days. He didn't make it. In fact, in 2002 ... about 4000 days past his 15-day deadline, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1441 putting Saddam on super-secret probation and giving him one last chance to do what he was supposed to do eleven years earlier.
Wait! I forgot Resolution 678! Forgive me! Resolution 678, you see, is specifically incorporated into both Resolutions 687 and 1441 by reference. Resolution 678 was passed in 1990, after Saddam invaded Kuwait. This resolution told Saddam to get the hell out, and authorized "Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait ... to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area." (Resolution 660 merely demanded that Iraq withdraw from Kuwait. Iraq didn't. George H.W. Bush made him.) So ... even if you went to a government school; hell, even if you vote for Democrats you can see that under Resolution 678 the United States, a Member State of the United Nations, has the authority under that resolution, and under 687 and 1441 to kick Saddam to the curb.
Thus endeth all claims that the United States violated international law by invading Iraq. We weren't violating international law, we were enforcing it. http://boortz.com/nuze/200401/01122004.html
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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As much as I respect some talk show host who happens to say what you want to hear, Kofi Annan is a far more respectable source on the UN and UN resolutions and how they pertain to international law than some hick with a blog and a radio show.
But more specifically:
Quote:No member state has the authority to decide how to enforce UN resolutions over the vote of the Security council. No member state has the authority to decide how to enforce UN resolutions over the vote of the security council. The council voted no. The UN decided not to invade. You can give justifications, your reading, George Bush's opinion, some talk hosts opinion until you are blue in the face. The only way the invasion of Iraq could have been sponsored by the UN, is if the security council voted to invade in 2003. They voted not to invade. Saying you disagree with their reasoning, and deciding that the US should be able to make unilateral decisions for the security council doesn't make it so. At best, at very very best if you apply very loose and favourable readings of the resolutions, charter and international law, the very best is that the action wasn't completely illegal.
Wait! I forgot Resolution 678! Forgive me! Resolution 678, you see, is specifically incorporated into both Resolutions 687 and 1441 by reference. Resolution 678 was passed in 1990, after Saddam invaded Kuwait. This resolution told Saddam to get the hell out, and authorized "Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait ... to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area." (Resolution 660 merely demanded that Iraq withdraw from Kuwait. Iraq didn't. George H.W. Bush made him.) So ... even if you went to a government school; hell, even if you vote for Democrats you can see that under Resolution 678 the United States, a Member State of the United Nations, has the authority under that resolution, and under 687 and 1441 to kick Saddam to the curb.
The only way, THE ONLY WAY, that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 could be considered to have been sponsored by the UN is if the security council voted for it. You said it was sponsored by the UN, the only way that can happen is if the security council voted for it. THE SECURITY COUNCIL DID NOT VOTE FOR THE INVASION OF IRAQ in 2003. The only way you can prove that the UN sponsored the invasion is by showing the security council voted to invade, which they didn't do. I'm going around in circles, because all you're doing is sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "yes they did" when it's clear the UN DID NOT AUTHORISE THE INVASION OF IRAQ in 2003.
Even if everything you've said is true, even if your reading of the resolutions are right, and the Security Council was wrong to vote no, they still voted no, and if the security council voted no, then the action they voted against IS NOT AUTHORISED BY THE UN. It's an enormously simple concept.
It works like this: The Security Council votes yes, invasion authorised by UN mandate, the security council votes no, invasion not authorised by UN mandate. The Council voted no, AURaptor. The SECURITY COUNCIL VOTED NO. The invasion of Iraq was not authorised by the UN Q.E.D.
No amount of half truths, delusions, talk show hosts or lies can ever change the fact that the Security Council voted no, and no amount of subtly changing the subject is going to change the fact that the security council voting no means the action was not approved by the UN. Please get over it.
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Quote:Silly silly British man. Do you really expect something like this to be taken seriously? AURaptor will find a way around this fact- he always does.
Originally posted by citizen:
The SECURITY COUNCIL VOTED NO.
Negative facts will be re-assigned meaning; resistance is futile.
AUoftheBorgisall
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Quote:He can't because he won't.
Please get over it.
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The U.N. chose not to invade, but left the door open for ANY MEMBEMR NATION TO DO SO.
And we did.
On 8 November 2002, the Security Council passed Resolution 1441 by a unanimous 15 to 0 vote, which included Russia, China and France, and Arab countries, such as Syria. This gave this resolution wider support than even the 1990 Gulf War resolution.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The U.N. chose not to invade, but left the door open for ANY MEMBEMR NATION TO DO SO.
Yes, I remember the door being left somewhat ajar.
I think that the UN cat nudged it open a little more. Then there was a breeze that opened it even more. Then Bush & Cheney, seeing the door left so invitingly open, stepped through it.
AU, you REALLY need a job in the White House as a professional spin doctor, you'd be better than most at it given your belief in the garbage you spew
.isall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The U.N. chose not to invade, but left the door open for ANY MEMBEMR NATION TO DO SO.
Yes, I remember the door being left somewhat ajar.
I think that the UN cat nudged it open a little more. Then there was a breeze that opened it even more. Then Bush & Cheney, seeing the door left so invitingly open, stepped through it.
AU, you REALLY need a job in the White House as a professional spin doctor, you'd be better than most at it given your belief in the garbage you spew
I'd take that job, provided I got the kick ass Gov't salary, health care and pension for life.
But I only believe it because it's true. Otherwise, I'd have no interest in it , what so ever.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Rapo, I can Wiki too. So I noticed that you left out some essential parts, specifically the part which said:
Quote:Look, you're desperately wrong about this. Man up to it and move on.
While some politicians have argued that the resolution could authorize war under certain circumstances, the representatives in the meeting were clear that this was not the case. The ambassador for the United States, John Negroponte, said: “ [T]his resolution contains no "hidden triggers" and no "automaticity" with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12.[2] ”
The ambassador for the United Kingdom, the co-sponsor of the resolution, said: “ We heard loud and clear during the negotiations the concerns about "automaticity" and "hidden triggers" -- the concern that on a decision so crucial we should not rush into military action; that on a decision so crucial any Iraqi violations should be discussed by the Council. Let me be equally clear in response... There is no "automaticity" in this resolution. If there is a further Iraqi breach of its disarmament obligations, the matter will return to the Council for discussion as required in paragraph 12. We would expect the Security Council then to meet its responsibilities.[3]
Stop going over old ground and trying to make reality something other than what is was.
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Quote:So, the UN vote for not invading Iraq was basically "We vote not to invade, but don't go NOT invading 'cause of lil' ole us..." ?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
But I only believe it because it's true.
Is this really what you believe?
Don't you ever get dizzy, AU...all that spin and all?
isall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, I can Wiki too. So I noticed that you left out some essential parts, specifically the part which said:Quote:Look, you're desperately wrong about this. Man up to it and move on.
While some politicians have argued that the resolution could authorize war under certain circumstances, the representatives in the meeting were clear that this was not the case. The ambassador for the United States, John Negroponte, said: “ [T]his resolution contains no "hidden triggers" and no "automaticity" with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12.[2] ”
The ambassador for the United Kingdom, the co-sponsor of the resolution, said: “ We heard loud and clear during the negotiations the concerns about "automaticity" and "hidden triggers" -- the concern that on a decision so crucial we should not rush into military action; that on a decision so crucial any Iraqi violations should be discussed by the Council. Let me be equally clear in response... There is no "automaticity" in this resolution. If there is a further Iraqi breach of its disarmament obligations, the matter will return to the Council for discussion as required in paragraph 12. We would expect the Security Council then to meet its responsibilities.[3]
Stop going over old ground and trying to make reality something other than what is was.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
I'm not wrong about this. The U.N. weenies wanted every chance to escape being blamed for for this, but still wanted to appear as if they were doing something courageous. They weren't, because the U.N. is nothing but a giant suck fest, a place where tyrants and third world thugs can get together and basically beat down the USA. Only in this case, the US and the West was right to try to stop Saddam, so the U.N. went through the motions, as best they could , to put on the show that they too agreed something should be done. Only when it came time for Fold or Fight, the bureaurcrats did the best to appear like they wanted to do the latter, but instead did the former. Few are brave enough to take on real evil, hell, even identify it. Most of the time, we have folks who want to go along to get along, ( U.N. Food for Oil scam ) and just pretend everything is running along peachy.
Well, we called B.S. on that, and chose NOT to look the other way. Now some are wishing to return to the lie, wish they had taken the Blue Pill, and don't want to know how the world REALLY is.
I've said my piece on this, I'm done running in circles, there's no need to continue this thread..... aloha.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:There is some small bit of truth here IMO, but this doesn't cover it all. Yeah the UN has it's problems, but the vote was NO.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'm not wrong about this. The U.N. weenies wanted every chance to escape being blamed for for this, but still wanted to appear as if they were doing something courageous.
And it's good to see that you're finally running out of spin for this administration.
Don't worry, when Obama's administration effs up, we can be right there together callin' him on it. It'll be as if we never had opposite opinions on anything.
Future Chrisisall
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Quote:You ARE. The representatives from many nations, including from the USA and Britain left a clear written record of the intent of the Resolution, and the ONE THING they were REALLY clear about was that it was NOT a resolution to invade Iraq.
I'm not wrong about this.
Now, you may whinge and twist and thrash about what the UN should have done, but the ONE THING YOU CANNOT HIDE BEHIND IS THE IDEA THAT THE UN AUTHORIZED AN INVASION OF IRAQ. IT DID NOT.
I will call you A LIAR and quote this frigging thread each and every time you repeat that falsehood. It will stick to your shoe like a piece of toilet paper... like the economy. Sooner or later you might begin to realize that there is such as thing as reality, and it's not made up of the endless supply of fibs, tall tales, wishful thinking and scare stories that seem to have taken root in your brain.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
This resolution told Saddam to get the hell out, and authorized "Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait ... to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."
I find this passage particularly interesting. It gives "member states" such as Iran, Syria, or Turkey the authority to now invade Iraq and kick the US out, using "all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660..., and to restore peace and security in the area."
I mean, if WE can use that as authority to invade, can't other nations now use it to invade and try to drive US out of Iraq, if it's to restore security to the area?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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I am reminded of an interview just after the Berlin Wall came down and some Russians were touring the U.S. When asked what they thought of America, they made two interesting observations. One, they pointed out that we seemed so afraid of each other. The second was referring to our news and newspapers, to which they observed, "In our country we have an advantage in those area's. When we read something or see it on t.v., we know it's bullshit. You here seem to believe it."
A friend of mine pointed out that things were better when the Mafia ran everything. Community based and all.
Never forget to follow the MONEY!
The rest is just filler.
Just picking nits off each other.
It's the power of nightmares.
Captain B
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Yo, Rap,
" ... whihch is riding a 25 + yr time span of economic growth ..."
So you're giving Bush credit for Clinton's great economy in that 25 year span. Meanwhile, Bush's economy has been flat - at best. But what the hey.
"Saddam was removed from power because he failed to provide the evidence that he had destroyed those weapons. The U.N. resolutions required this of him, and he failed to comply."
Actually, he met every timetable and every requirement in the months before the US attacked Iraq - from filing the paperwork with the UN to allowing intrusive unfettered inspections. So much so that Bush couldn't find any other UN line in the sand and had to DEMAND that Hussein and top government officials leave Iraq to avoid war. Was this a UN resolution ? No. It was a complete fabrication on Bush's part that had nothing to do with the UN or its resolutions in any way. And THAT my friend was BUSH'S pretext to go to war.
"Those same resolutions said that any member nation could use force to compel him to comply ...and that's exactly what some member nations did."
With the caveat that under the UN charter no UN nation - or nations - is allowed to attack another nation under the UN flag without specific authorization. By specific authorization is meant which country is to have military force used against it or which areas of the country, goals and objectives, the time and timetable, which countries will perform the UN action and number of forces from each, rules of engagement and so forth. And then it becomes a UN action.
The US attack a nation that posed no threat and without the required UN authorization. Yes it was illegal.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
So you're giving Bush credit for Clinton's great economy in that 25 year span. Meanwhile, Bush's economy has been flat - at best. But what the hey.
[sarcasm]Rue, Rue, Rue... you poor, misguided liberal schmuck. Haven't you figured it out yet? The SUCCESS over the last 25 years is all due to Dubya. The FLATNESS over the last 8 is due to Clinton. Or Obama. Or maybe Carter. But most definitely NOT Dubya.
You just don't get how economics work... [/sarcasm]
Also, I find it amusing that on the whole Saddam thing, AwwCrapper's now trying to pin it all an the UN - an institution conservatives historically don't believe has any authority whatsoever, and that the US should pull out of.
So you don't recognize their authority, except when you falsely point to that authority to justify your illegal little Oil for Blood corruption...
Talk about circular logic!
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
So you're giving Bush credit for Clinton's great economy in that 25 year span. Meanwhile, Bush's economy has been flat - at best. But what the hey.
No, but I am giving Reagan credit for starting it all. Bush43 did hs part in cutting taxes, a little, and seeing the death tax phased out.
Quote:Sorry, but Saddam's credibility and his word wasn't worth all that much by then. His previous lies and games played cost him.
Actually, he met every timetable and every requirement in the months before the US attacked Iraq - from filing the paperwork with the UN to allowing intrusive unfettered inspections
No, no caveat required w/ the U.N. sanctions. Read the resolutions. Everything is specifically spelled out. They just didn't think we'd actually carry it out. We did. And it was purely legal.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:YOU ARE A LIAR.
Sorry, but Saddam's credibility and his word wasn't worth all that much by then. His previous lies and games played cost him.
No, no caveat required w/ the U.N. sanctions. Read the resolutions. Everything is specifically spelled out. They just didn't think we'd actually carry it out. We did. And it was purely legal.
John Negroponte, US Ambassador to the UN said
Quote:And YOUR credibility is right there with Saddam's. It's even worse than Bush's.
[T]his resolution contains no "hidden triggers" and no "automaticity" with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
YOU ARE A LIAR.
You keep using that word. I do not believe that word means what you think it means.
I honestly believe that the war on Iraq was sanctioned by the U.N. vis-a-vis the resolutions discussed above, namely 678( authorized Member States to use all necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) ) , 687 ( imposed obligations on Iraq as a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international peace and security in the area, ) and 1441 . I posted an explanation as to such above as well.
You seem to think otherwise, which is fine. One of us is wrong. Being wrong does not make one a 'liar'. Try to keep that in mind from now on.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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THE FACTS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
JOHN NEGROPONTE, US AMBASSADOR TO THE UN SAID
[T]his resolution contains no hidden triggers and no automaticity with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12
When someone knows the facts but continues to state otherwise, then they become liars.
YOU ARE A LIAR.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Rap
I second that.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
THE FACTS ARE AS FOLLOWS:
JOHN NEGROPONTE, US AMBASSADOR TO THE UN SAID
[T]his resolution contains no hidden triggers and no automaticity with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12
When someone knows the facts but continues to state otherwise, then they become liars.
YOU ARE A LIAR.
.
No, that makes YOU the liar.
There, happy? Liar.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Oh, bull. "You believe" this about the UN and "you believe" that. So, who has the facts: Negroponte (Bush's choice for the UN) or some pissant little know-nothing?
Give it up Rapo: You're wrong, you know it, and you're a LIAR.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh, bull. "You believe" this about the UN and "you believe" that. So, who has the facts: Negroponte (Bush's choice for the UN) or some pissant little know-nothing?
Give it up Rapo: You're wrong, you know it, and you're a LIAR.
.
No, you're wrong, as we obviously went into Iraq.
You're the liar, liar.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Rap Either you're a liar or you are badly, damagingly deluded. Your choice.
So how's that roaring econmy doing lately ?
And those tons and tons of WMDs in Iraq ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:We know you do, we are trying to get you to process the info so that you will instead believe the truth.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I honestly believe that the war on Iraq was sanctioned by the U.N. vis-a-vis the resolutions discussed above
Chrisisall
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Quote:yes, "we". The Coalition of the willing, billing, and the shilling. NOT the UN. NOT under UN authority.
No, you're wrong, as we obviously went into Iraq.
LIAR.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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There seems to be a lot of pants on fire 'round these parts.Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Rap Either you're a liar or you are badly, damagingly deluded. Your choice.
So how's that roaring econmy doing lately ?
And those tons and tons of WMDs in Iraq ?
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"Global warming - it's not a fact, it's just not ."
Oh, and global warming is fake too, so that makes you a bigger liar.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:So the biggest drought ever in Austrailia, the flooding in our mid-section, and the thinning ice at Santa's are just a coinkiedence?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, and global warming is fake too
Oh, sorry, I forgot that the liberal Jew media is just makin' all that up.
Nevermind.
Litellaisall
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The good thing about moderated forums is that threads like this one, where otherwise intelligent people start acting like 7-year-olds, would've been closed a long time ago.
Just agree to disagree and fucking get over it.
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:So the biggest drought ever in Austrailia, the flooding in our mid-section, and the thinning ice at Santa's are just a coinkiedence?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh, and global warming is fake too
Oh, sorry, I forgot that the liberal Jew media is just makin' all that up.
Nevermind.
Litellaisall
Biggest drought 'ever' ??? That's only on man's scale, huckleberry. Not the Earth's. I'm sure there've been worse. Much worse, and long before the automobiles too.
Flooding? Happens every so often . These aren't as bad as the 93 flood. Remember that one ? Oh, and then there's that guy named Noah......
That thinning ice ? Got thicker over the winter, as it ALWAYS does.
Lib media does have an agenda. Dunno what Jew has to do w/ it , if anything. You got something against Jews, piratenewsisall ?
Quote:
Just agree to disagree and fucking get over it.
Works for me. I think this horse is about as dead as it's gonna get. Anyone else agree ?
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:That's just the term that's continuously bandied about. A lot of Jews are Liberal, so I guessed that you hated them too. You gotta stop the hating, AU.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Dunno what Jew has to do w/ it , if anything. You got something against Jews, piratenewsisall ?
isall
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Quote:Even when confronted with a clear statement from a Negroponte on what the UN resolutions were supposed to be doing (and after all, Negroponte was the person negotiating there, so if anyone should know it would be him) Rapo continues to say THE EARTH IS FLAT!.
Just agree to disagree and fucking get over it.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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I refuse to allow lies to go unchallenged. B/c being repeated over and over without dissent is how they gain acceptance.
And you wouldn't want that now, would you, Khyron.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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We've been challenging AURaptor for years and all it did was waste everyone's time.
Besides, the part of the conversation I was referring to was this high point of philosophical discourse:
"Liar!"
"Bigger liar!"
"Biggest liar!"
"Liar liar liar!!"
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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"We've been challenging AURaptor for years and all it did was waste everyone's time."
Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
"Besides, the part of the conversation I was referring to was this high point of philosophical discourse:
"Liar!"
"Bigger liar!"
"Biggest liar!"
"Liar liar liar!!""
OK - how about I just keep asking him about the roaring econmy and the tons and tons of WMDs. Will that suit you ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Think of it as online therapy. Rapo confuses the world in his skull for the real one. Some day Rapo will realize that the world is not as he wishes or is afraid of, or as he says it is, but simply as it is.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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I'm right, you are all wrong, anyone who doesn't get that can kiss my hairy flabby arse, meat bags.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Lie to me, lie to you friends, but AURaptor, don't lie to yourself...
A classicisall
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Quote:Really? Anybody on this board? That's a serious question, by the way, not trying to be snarky.
Originally posted by rue:
Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
Quote:Definitely. Anything that resembles a proper conversation and not some schoolyard taunts is fine with me.
Originally posted by rue:
OK - how about I just keep asking him about the roaring econmy and the tons and tons of WMDs. Will that suit you ?
Although I will note that he hasn't given a proper reply to those questions the thousands of times you and everybody else asked him over the last couple of years, but maybe you're more of a fan of Sisyphean tasks than I am.
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:Quote:Really? Anybody on this board? That's a serious question, by the way, not trying to be snarky.
Originally posted by rue:
Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
Well, thanks mostly to peeps on this board, I have softened my radical left views and moved more towards the middle...used to go the conspiracy route every time- now I believe most evils come out of sheer stupidity & bloated egos.
Where's my tinfoil hatisall
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rue: Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
khyron: Really? Anybody on this board? That's a serious question, by the way, not trying to be snarky.
Yes, three people on this board that I know of.
khyron: ... maybe you're more of a fan of Sisyphean tasks than I am.
No, my intention is more devious than that.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
rue: Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
khyron: Really? Anybody on this board? That's a serious question, by the way, not trying to be snarky.
Yes, three people on this board that I know of.
And how many people have left this board for the very same reason?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Even when confronted with a clear statement from a Negroponte on what the UN resolutions were supposed to be doing (and after all, Negroponte was the person negotiating there, so if anyone should know it would be him) Rapo continues to say THE EARTH IS FLAT!.
Just agree to disagree and fucking get over it.
.
Sorry, but nothing Negroponte says can undo 10+ yrs of Iraq stone walling and specific U.N. Resolutions , or their wording there in.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Lie to me, lie to you friends, but AURaptor, don't lie to yourself...
A classicisall
The Earth is round, and revolves around the Sun.
Global warming is a scam.
No human ever saw a live dinosaur
We are not being visited by E.T.'s
The Iraq war was in no way what so ever founded on a lie.
There is no lost sea lizard from the Mesozoic living in Loch Ness
Oswald was the only shooter that November day in Dallas.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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BiggusD
"And how many people have left this board for the very same reason?"
What reason is that ?
I DO know of some people who have left b/c of others who were extremely vile and hateful.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:Negroponte helped write the last Resolution about Iraq's compliance with other UN resolutions, ya boob!
Sorry, but nothing Negroponte says can undo 10+ yrs of Iraq stone walling and specific U.N. Resolutions , or their wording there in.
So basically what you're saying is that we should ignore what our Ambassador helped write, what the UK Ambassador helped write, and what all the other negotiators and signatories said about Resolution 1441 in favor of YOUR intepretation?
Because....???
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
THE EARTH IS FLAT! AND RAPO IS THE SUPREME LEADER OF THE UN!!!
www.un.org/Docs/scres/2002/sc2002.htm
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You're such a boob.
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Quote:
Negroponte helped write the last Resolution about Iraq's compliance with other UN resolutions, ya boob!
And what you can't get through your thick skull is that it's not what one SAYS but what it written. I can tell you that all you'll pay for your new car is the price I quote, but that doesn't change what is on the CONTRACT, you moron.
What are you gonna believe, what you're told or what's IN THE CONTRACT ?
Man, you're gullible !
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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