If you like Bush & what he's done to this world, you are evil.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 2, 2008 19:38
VIEWED: 30933
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RUE

Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:40 AM (P)

"Man, you're gullible !"

Man, you're a tool !

Feel better now that you got what you so obviously invited ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

KWICKO

Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:18 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Negroponte helped write the last Resolution about Iraq's compliance with other UN resolutions, ya boob!

And what you can't get through your thick skull is that it's not what one SAYS but what it written. I can tell you that all you'll pay for your new car is the price I quote, but that doesn't change what is on the CONTRACT, you moron.

What are you gonna believe, what you're told or what's IN THE CONTRACT ?

Man, you're gullible !

Okay, here's the full text of the UN Resolution 1441. Maybe you can show me where it's WRITTEN that the UN gave the United States the authority to invade Iraq unilaterally.

Quote:
United Nations S/RES/1441 (2002)

Security Council Distr.: General
8 November 2002
02-68226 (E)
*0268226*
Resolution 1441 (2002)
Adopted by the Security Council at its 4644th meeting, on
8 November 2002
The Security Council,
Recalling all its previous relevant resolutions, in particular its resolutions 661
(1990) of 6 August 1990, 678 (1990) of 29 November 1990, 686 (1991) of 2 March
1991, 687 (1991) of 3 April 1991, 688 (1991) of 5 April 1991, 707 (1991) of 15
August 1991, 715 (1991) of 11 October 1991, 986 (1995) of 14 April 1995, and
1284 (1999) of 17 December 1999, and all the relevant statements of its President,
Recalling also its resolution 1382 (2001) of 29 November 2001 and its
intention to implement it fully,
Recognizing the threat Iraq’s non-compliance with Council resolutions and
proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to
international peace and security,
Recalling that its resolution 678 (1990) authorized Member States to use all
necessary means to uphold and implement its resolution 660 (1990) of 2 August
1990 and all relevant resolutions subsequent to resolution 660 (1990) and to restore
international peace and security in the area,
Further recalling that its resolution 687 (1991) imposed obligations on Iraq as
a necessary step for achievement of its stated objective of restoring international
peace and security in the area,
Deploring the fact that Iraq has not provided an accurate, full, final, and
complete disclosure, as required by resolution 687 (1991), of all aspects of its
programmes to develop weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles with a
range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and of all holdings of such
weapons, their components and production facilities and locations, as well as all
other nuclear programmes, including any which it claims are for purposes not
related to nuclear-weapons-usable material,
Deploring further that Iraq repeatedly obstructed immediate, unconditional,
and unrestricted access to sites designated by the United Nations Special
Commission (UNSCOM) and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA),
failed to cooperate fully and unconditionally with UNSCOM and IAEA weapons
2
S/RES/1441 (2002)
inspectors, as required by resolution 687 (1991), and ultimately ceased all
cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA in 1998,
Deploring the absence, since December 1998, in Iraq of international
monitoring, inspection, and verification, as required by relevant resolutions, of
weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, in spite of the Council’s repeated
demands that Iraq provide immediate, unconditional, and unrestricted access to the
United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission (UNMOVIC),
established in resolution 1284 (1999) as the successor organization to UNSCOM,
and the IAEA, and regretting the consequent prolonging of the crisis in the region
and the suffering of the Iraqi people,
Deploring also that the Government of Iraq has failed to comply with its
commitments pursuant to resolution 687 (1991) with regard to terrorism, pursuant to
resolution 688 (1991) to end repression of its civilian population and to provide
access by international humanitarian organizations to all those in need of assistance

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:02 AM (P)

Quote:
And what you can't get through your thick skull is that it's not what one SAYS but what it written. I can tell you that all you'll pay for your new car is the price I quote, but that doesn't change what is on the CONTRACT, you moron.What are you gonna believe, what you're told or what's IN THE CONTRACT ?

Then read the resolution. Paragraph 12 says:

Quote:
12. Decides to convene immediately upon receipt of a report in accordance with paragraphs 4 {false statements or omissions ...constitute a further material breach of Iraq's obligations and will be reported to the Council} or 11 {report immediately to the Council any interference by Iraq with inspection activities} in order to consider the situation and the need for full compliance with all of the relevant Council resolutions in order to secure international peace and security

Apparently the USA took paragraph seriously 12 enough to try to convene the Security Council in mid February.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

KHYRON

Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:01 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
rue: Not really. I know at least few people who are thinking differently now.
khyron: Really? Anybody on this board? That's a serious question, by the way, not trying to be snarky.

Yes, three people on this board that I know of.

Who?

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Man, you're gullible !"

Man, you're a tool !

Feel better now that you got what you so obviously invited ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not a fact, it just isn't."

That doesn't even make sense.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:27 PM (P)

Rapo: So, ignore reality much, do you?

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Let's party like it's 1929.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:33 PM (P)

Khyron: Me for example. I've become much less enthralled with govt-sponsored solutions.

There was another person (can't recall the name) who definitely and totally changed his mind about privatizing Social Security.

Why do you take Rapo as an example of how the board doesn't work? He's an unusual case. If we all took your attitude, the board would be irrelevant because there would be no point in discussing anything anyway. Even YOUR posts would be irrelevant!

In fact, why am I posting to you....?

'Bye!

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Let's party like it's 1929.

KHYRON

Thursday, June 26, 2008 12:57 PM (P)

Okay, enlighten me please, where did I ask if any discussion on this board changed anybody's position on anything? I'm sure lots of people changed their viewpoints on some issues as a result of discussions on this board, I know I did.

What I asked is: did this discussion, the one about the reasons for going to war, the one that people have been having with AURaptor for the hundredth time already, change anyone's opinion on this topic?

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:27 PM (P)

Quote:
What I asked is: did this discussion, the one about the reasons for going to war, the one that people have been having with AURaptor for the hundredth time already, change anyone's opinion on this topic?

It may not have changed Rapo's mind but it may have changed others.

And some day, Rapo might actually start to think. I still have hope.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 3:54 PM (P)

So Rapo, have you actually read the resolution yet? Yanno, the one you so strenuously pointed out just a few short posts ago?

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Let's party like it's 1929.

KWICKO

Thursday, June 26, 2008 5:57 PM (P)

'Rap, I wasn't trying to be facetious or snarky. I haven't read the full resolution yet, not every word of it, but I scanned it looking for key phrases, and I haven't found them. If you have and can point them out, please do.

We argue back and forth a lot about what's said and what's written, and what's actually MEANT by it, and this could be a good time to actually look at the words as they were written, to see if there's some point of contention we can agree on - or agree to disagree on.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:45 PM (P)

I wasn't sure what a UN resolution authorizing use of UN force would look like so I selected a few instances where the UN actually sent in troops. For comparison, here is a UN resolution on establishing a protection force in Macedonia

Quote:
Authorizes the Secretary-General to establish a presence of the United Nations Protection Force (UNPROFOR) in the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, as recommended by him in his report (S/24923), and so to inform the authorities of Albania and those of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)

http://faq.macedonia.org/politics/un.resolutions.html#795
Here is a similar resolution on establishing a force in Darfur

Quote:
1. Decides, in support of the early and effective implementation of the Darfur Peace Agreement and the outcome of the negotiations foreseen in paragraph 18, to authorise and mandate the establishment, for an initial period of 12 months, of an AU/UN Hybrid operation in Darfur (UNAMID) as set out in this resolution and pursuant to the report of the Secretary-General and the Chairperson of the African Union Commission of 5 June 2007, and further decides that the mandate of UNAMID shall be as set out in paragraphs 54 and 55 of the report of the Secretary General and the Chairperson of the African Union Commission of 5 June 2007

www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article23083

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Let's party like it's 1929.

KANEMAN

Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
BiggusD

"And how many people have left this board for the very same reason?"

What reason is that ?

I DO know of some people who have left b/c of others who were extremely vile and hateful.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

Tell me about it. Where is the civility?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo: So, ignore reality much, do you?

---------------------------------

Why would you say such a clearly ridiculous and unsubstantiated thing ?

Dork.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:55 PM (P)

So, have you found the pasage in Resolution 1441 that authorizes use of force in Iraq?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 27, 2008 3:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Why would you say such a clearly ridiculous and unsubstantiated thing

Hey Rapo... ignore reality much, do ya?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

AURAPTOR

Friday, June 27, 2008 6:41 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, have you found the pasage in Resolution 1441 that authorizes use of force in Iraq?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

Already explained that , way up in the thread. Not gonna repeat this any more. Sorry.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

ELVISCHRIST

Friday, June 27, 2008 9:11 AM (P)

Quote:

Already explained that , way up in the thread. Not gonna repeat this any more. Sorry.

I guess he couldn't find it, which is understandable, because it's not there.

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

SIGNYM

Friday, June 27, 2008 12:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Already explained that , way up in the thread.

Yeah, you explained how we should read what was written in the Resolution, not pay attention to what our Ambassador (or anyone else) "said". I presume that means we should ignore you too?

So, I went to the last comprehensive statement by the UN concerning Iraq's compliance with it's several resolutions. The resolution that described what the UN was going to do from that moment forward, taking into account all previous resolutions and Iraq's response. The definitive word, according to you. And what I read was: If we have any more problems we will MEET AGAIN TO DISCUSS THEM. I thought the wording was very clear.

But since I wasn't sure whether there was something buried in UN-speak... some sort of code-phrase that I might not be picking up on... I found a couple of other resolutions authorizing use of force, just to see if the intent was spelled out in language I could understand. It was.

So using YOUR logic (read the Resolution).... I did. So did Kwicko, and so did a lot of people here. And neither they NOR YOU have quoted anything in Resolution 1441 that authorizes use of force. So what should we believe? "The contract"? Or your fervered intepretation?

If you once again say that the UN authorized use of force I will call you a LIAR. You haven't backed up that statement with ANY credible evidence. You've been challenged and you have definitively failed, even on your own criteria.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

KHYRON

Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:38 PM (P)

Quote:
Water-boarding ? - Fuzzy area. Only to be used in rare ,extreme situations

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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