More controversy....

POSTED BY: jewelstaitefan
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 13:51
VIEWED: 26674
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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 8:39 AM (P)

OK, I understand this could be a touchy subject, but I wonder if others feel the same.

Which do you like better, 2 hour Pilot Serenity, or 2 hour BDM Serenity?

I cannot say I have a definitive favorite right now. I've never seen the pilot on big screen, but have seen several eps after Ariel on a 60-inch hd screen on SciFi channel.
I really enjoy the Pilot, but it doesn't have Rivernator, and Summer's endearing lines don't even appear for the first half. BDM has kick-butt River, but there seems more action, or involvement in the Pilot.

Anybody else in a quandry here?

MOOSE

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 8:49 AM (P)

2hr Pilot Serenity for me.
Even though it wasn't my intro to the 'Verse (Gorrram F*X), it just seemed to have just the right balance of all the characters. The BDM had Mal and River as the stars, with the rest as support. (I'm still a bit sore about Book not having a more prominent role, BTW...)

HUGHFF

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 10:16 AM (P)

I'm sure I'm on record elsewhere on this board as saying that the BDM is inferior to the worst episode of the series (though not by much.) I'm sticking with that call. Conversely, the pilot was a solid episode - not top 5 but certainly damn good.

www.cpfc.org - my life

JONGSSTRAW

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:28 AM (P)

For me it's the Pilot, by a mile. I like a lot of the BDM, but I also find a lot of it disappointing.

SCOUSERATHEART

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:24 PM (P)

I will also have to vote for the pilot. As much as I loved seeing Serenity on the big screen (the first shot of our beautiful vessel still takes my breath away), the plot was too MAL/RIVER centric for my taste. The beauty of the series was that each character had a significant part to play. I can't say that SERENITY was worse than the worst firefly episode (personally I would rank the movie 8th or 9th), but the pilot beats the movie by a long shot in my opinion.

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:24 PM (P)

Serenity - the pilot - introduced me to the Verse and will always be my favorite.... i mean come on, the Kaylee and strawberry scene was a classic - no?

WYTCHCROFT

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:42 PM (P)

after watching them both many times - loving the fact they are both close to joss and nathan's original view of Mal.

...i'm gonna plumb for the BDM.

nothing is ever flawless - and certainly the deleted scenes should all have been included but...

on rpt viewings i find the pilot (after an hour or so of high watermark tv) flattens just a little once it gets to whitefall.

i love the democratic nature of the show as a whole but i can understand why a movie might focus on simply Mal and River. If there had been sequels (sigh) others would have had their turn.

i feel a little sorry for whedon in that even his core audience are liable to be very definite in what they want from him now.

I put the BDM up there in my lists as being a good episode - i mean, i prefer Objects in Space, Out of Gas etc but (Inara aside) it's better than Heart of Gold and some of the others. (IMHO)

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 2:22 PM (P)

Pilot for me.

1. The Girl in the Box - when River first comes out and starts talking to Simon. I don't know about you folks but I just wanted to take her in my arms and protect her (much as Simon did).

2. "Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal" This scene introduces one of the most beloved characters in tv today. Joss set this up perfectly. Wash is us, the decent guy who happens to be the best pilot in the 'verse. Right away we know this guy in just that scene.

3. Kaylee's "You're gonna come with us" nuf said.

4. Pain is scary - in those 3 words we know who Jayne is.

5. The Look that Zoe gives Mal when she finds out that the Alliance "goods" are marked (in Badger's Den) but she never wavers standing by her Captain.

6. The little push that Mal gives Inara when he orders her to escape in the shuttle when being chased by the Reavers.

7. Simon's Speech about his genius sister, Wow.

8. Book's confession to Inara, great scene.

9. Crazy Ivan scene leading up to Kaylee's "That's my girl"

10. Zoe's "Take the helm, sir" right after. Great stuff. Here's this warrior woman, who could probably fight Jayne to a standstill, becoming a complete girl whenever her husband does his cool pilot thing. I simply love that. She lights up when Wash does his thing. Now tell me that ain't brilliant writing.

Should I go on. Not that the BDM doesn't have its moments. More on that later.

Naughty men like us slipping about....

ZEEK

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 2:44 PM (P)

BDM hands down. The pilot is great and all but it's only a piece of a bigger story. If I have to go with a stand alone 2 hours of the verse then the BDM wins easily.

AIKO

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 3:05 PM (P)

I have to say, the Pilot. It had everything that the series was about. But the BDM was Mal/River centric *echoes a bunch of people above her*, and it killed off a couple characters that a bunch of people loved, and it was just a dark movie.

WYTCHCROFT

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 3:31 PM (P)

Quote:
and it was just a dark movie.

am i the only one who thinks the BDM is gorram funny too?

rhetorical butler asks:
were F*X right to insist on 'warming' up the tv show??

SCATHAC

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 3:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
Pilot for me.

1. The Girl in the Box - when River first comes out and starts talking to Simon. I don't know about you folks but I just wanted to take her in my arms and protect her (much as Simon did).

2. "Curse your sudden, but inevitable betrayal" This scene introduces one of the most beloved characters in tv today. Joss set this up perfectly. Wash is us, the decent guy who happens to be the best pilot in the 'verse. Right away we know this guy in just that scene.

3. Kaylee's "You're gonna come with us" nuf said.

4. Pain is scary - in those 3 words we know who Jayne is.

5. The Look that Zoe gives Mal when she finds out that the Alliance "goods" are marked (in Badger's Den) but she never wavers standing by her Captain.

6. The little push that Mal gives Inara when he orders her to escape in the shuttle when being chased by the Reavers.

7. Simon's Speech about his genius sister, Wow.

8. Book's confession to Inara, great scene.

9. Crazy Ivan scene leading up to Kaylee's "That's my girl"

10. Zoe's "Take the helm, sir" right after. Great stuff. Here's this warrior woman, who could probably fight Jayne to a standstill, becoming a complete girl whenever her husband does his cool pilot thing. I simply love that. She lights up when Wash does his thing. Now tell me that ain't brilliant writing.

Should I go on. Not that the BDM doesn't have its moments. More on that later.
B]

You said it all. The Pilot is, at this moment, my favorite episode. It's poignant, emotional, but there is also great action and sparkling wit. I'm a sucker for wit. I like the balance of sci fi and wild west motifs here also. And the intro to each character makes you just love them. Even Jayne, who you know you can't trust.

PLATONIST

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 7:21 PM (P)

I like both and they accomplish two different things.

The pilot is the introduction of all the characters and touches on some of the relationships. There are some great character interactions. They are listed above.

The BDM, while being Mal and River centric, is a solid Sci Fi story and Mal is generously dark, but he does arc and rise above his personal loss in the valley.

I had a co-worker who went to the opening of the movie. He was disappointed, “too much like Buffy in Space,” he said. He recently saw a few episodes on UHD and was impressed. I loaned him the series. He is floored. “What a great show and it’s nothing like the movie” He says. He’s hooked and I need to go to Target now and get another set.

If we get a sequel, I hope Joss is able to balance the two together this time and although I love River, the ass kicking has been done and is getting old. Maybe just a short scene or two would suffice. And no more school scenes. Was that a future implementation of classroom curriculum documentary I was freaking watching Joss? I’m bored, already.

GILOVE2DANCE

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 8:49 PM (P)

Pilot seems to be the general response and I must agree. After all, the pilot leads to the series whereas the BDM leads to...no Wash. Sob.

I must say I do prefer the music in BDM then the pilot. Heh heh.

MISSTRESSAHARA

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:08 PM (P)

Pilot all the way, sorry to those who love the movie but it is inferior to the show, always will be in my opinion. To even compare it is wrong. The movie will be just an extention of the series, and not the best. I actually prefer HOG to the BDM. but again, my own opinion.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

DON'T FREAK OUT

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WYTCHCROFT

Wednesday, July 9, 2008 11:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Pilot all the way, sorry to those who love the movie but it is inferior to the show, always will be in my opinion. To even compare it is wrong. The movie will be just an extention of the series, and not the best. I actually prefer HOG to the BDM. but again, my own opinion.

no actually i think you're in the majority, certainly if Serenity Found, Imdb.com
and the unpopular opinions thread are to be believed.

i would never criticize someone for a subjective opinion (taste) either way. (well, not mostly!)
But i've always found it interesting -
heard a lot of good arguments and got a lot of genuine insights
from both camps (as it were):)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:21 AM (P)

Well, not as unpopular a thought as I had conjured.
So far, 11-2 for Pilot Serenity.

After posting this yesterday, it occurred to me that at the CSTS screening there was pre-show stuff that was show via a personal computer, on the silver screen. It was even shown with the house lights on. I assume many venues had the same pre-show entertainment.
So, how cool would it be to have the Pilot on the bigscreen? I'd pay to see that with a bunch of browncoats. And it is named Serenity, so funds could go to CSTS, if Fox agrees.
Maybe a CSTS could have a double feature, Pilot Serenity followed by BDM Serenity.
Or has this been done and I just missed out?

ONTHEDRIFT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:02 AM (P)

I'm going to have to go with Pilot Serenity as well. It was my introduction to the 'verse and it was just love at first sight. So I imagine I'll always have a fairly intense response to it. As far as the BDM vs. the series in my opinion it's apples and oranges. Sure it was a continuation of some of the story- but it obviously could only focus on certain story threads due to length and pacing. One of the things I loved about the series was that nine different characters were all given their due, which is no easy feat. And the feel of the movie is much different from the warm, lived in, home-y vibe I get from the series. The color palette alone makes that abundantly clear. All of this is not to say I don't love the movie, I'll always be grateful for it, and it's definitely one of the better sci-fi movies I've seen. (But I will admit I always feel like there's a dull heavy ache in my chest whenever I think about the movie. It was in many ways the death of the series I loved so dearly. There's simply no coming back from the places that it took us and the characters we lost. I suppose I was being illogically optimistic up until I saw it - thinking that there could always be a day when Firefly could be resurrected. -I'm aware that that's all kind of stupid but I'm thinking some of you will understand.- Anyways, the movie was similar to a life changing event in your personal life- you know that after this has happened there's no going back. Things will never be like they once were no matter how much you wish for it. You'll never be able to return to that familiar and more innocent place that you were in before things changed for you. So the movie has always evoked a bittersweet response for me. Happiness to see the 'verse again tinged with loss over knowing that we can all never go back to the way things were.) So really wordy likely overdramatic post to say that I love the movie just not in the same way as the pilot.

And jewelstaitefan I too would love to see some Firefly on the big screen. I know before the copyright crackdown around the time of the WGA strike there were some theatres that showed episodes of Firefly and Buffy. Would have loved that. (Especially seeing OMWF on the big screen which I have yet to do since I live in the armpit of Uncoolsville.) I would imagine any showing of Firefly at a CSTS event would likely have to be handled by each venue by themselves since the global CSTS organizers probably have their hands full securing rights through Universal alone. And I fully agree on the awesome factor of seeing the pilot on the big screen with other flans.

CANTTAKEMYSKY

Thursday, July 10, 2008 5:37 AM (P)

I don't believe the two can be compared.

Its completely different points on the scale. They both are gorram amazing, but the BDM was more epic than anything you could do on TV. One was for the building, one was for gaining. The pilot is one of the finest pieces of work I have have ever seen.

I can't choose on this one folks!.....DONT MAKE ME!!!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

CREATOR OF THE MOST RANDOM ACCIDENTAL THREAD IN THE 'VERSE!

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:39 AM (P)

Serenity the Big Damn Pilot, by miles. It's my absolute fave, beating out OMR and Shindig, even, by a ways. The Pilot is what I watch as first choice whenever I wanta watch FF. The BDM, sadly, is a disappointment, on a level with Train Job and Bushwacked.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:46 AM (P)

I had forgotten to point out that I understood that Joss had FILMed every episode.
How fitting for a big screening of a movie that Fox refused to broadcast until after cancellation.
Pilot won an Emmy.
Did BDM win any awards?

HUGHFF

Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:44 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Did BDM win any awards?

Despite my dismissing the bdm earlier, I feel compelled to point out that it won a Hugo, for best sf movie. Morena accepted on Joss' behalf and read out a speech he wrote - you can probably find it on youtube. At her glamorous best, she certainly looked out of place amongst all those middle-aged writers/artisits receiving the other awards.

www.cpfc.org - my life

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:31 AM (P)

i do understand some of the criticism of the BDM
(although a lot if it is Sgt Pepper vs The White Album)

Wash's death is a wrong move -

not just coz he's likeable
(some of the opinions i've heard are a re-run of
the Tara's not dead craziness from Buffy-land)

but because - (the best argument being in Serenity Found)
Zoe cannot 'arc' after this,
'what can she do? get MORE badass' (i'm paraphrasing).

Zoe should've been the one to go -
Wash would have developed whole new story/characer potential.

i have no idea how Wash's death seemed to a viewer unfamiliar with the tv show.

Also - the River, Mal focus forces a shift;
yes, Mal comes into his own once the whole crew are together
but it's not the same as in the show,
where Mal needs the crew to fill in his blanks.

In the BDM he just needs back-up.

I like the Serenity comics because this balance has been restored.
(as it would have been perhaps in any sequel -
and yet another reason to bemoan the lack of a dvd mini-series)

Gotta say - juggling 9 characters is really really hard! Ask a BSR fan-fic writer!

But i do think the BDM is beautiflly shot and filmed, well realised within itself,
funnier than people credit - think of the opening and Mal in the Companion temple.

The River in the bank scene is priceless - so are those goggles!
Mr Universe is a great addition.
The Operative is fantastic.
The music is wonderful.
and that's enough of that.

AMDOBELL

Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:24 PM (P)

I honestly don't want to choose between the Pilot and the BDM because I loved them both, they are each a chance to become absorbed in the fantastic 'verse Joss has created for us to play in. I go with most everybody about all the wonderful character moments in the pilot, that wonderful merging of cowboys in space and the Chinese culture and the whole rich fabric that had that worn comfortable feeling about it of something much loved and *lived in*. It makes it feel *real*. There are many contrasts between the pilot and the movie which is probably what clashes in some minds as to merit.

The pilot gave us Joss's 'verse, gifted us with his wonderful characters and drew us lovingly in. The BDM thrilled me because the series we loved and lost was brought back on the Big Damn Screen and how could any Browncoat not feel all misted up at that? So proud that it happened, so excited to get to watch it then own a piece of it with the DVD. I thought the story was excellent, pacing great, music terrific. Downsides for me were the unnecessary death of Book. What in the nine hells was that about? Why? Killing off Wash was almost a "we have to kill someone off for the movie to be taken seriously" but I don't buy that. For shock value it worked. In fact at one point in the movie I was convinced Joss was going to kill off ALL our Big Damn Heroes. It was almost as if every single character had been given life threatening injuries and could have the plug pulled on them at a moment's notice. It certainly kept my heart in my mouth right up until the end. And before anyone says the BDM lacked emotional content just rewatch that scene when Simon gets shot and River says "My turn now". I had tears running down my face.

Given that Zoe was put back together with crazy glue and Mal had so many injuries most of which should have killed him outright but just gave him a limp, it seemed so wrong that Wash had to die by Reaver spike and Book by the Alliance bully boys carrying out the Operative's scorched earth policy. The pilot will also hold my heart because it came FIRST. It gave us FIREFLY. But I will also love the BDM because I simply couldn't let go after the series ended. And just for the record, I secretly don't believe Book is actually dead. I know, I know, before anyone says it, "Denial (ie the Nile) is not just a river in Africa".

Ali D :~)
You can't take the sky from me...

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:33 PM (P)

congratulations! you win our letter of the week competition! collect your prize now!:)

(seriously, if this don't make to a pod-cast, there's no justice)

AMDOBELL

Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
congratulations! you win our letter of the week competition! collect your prize now!:)

(seriously, if this don't make to a pod-cast, there's no justice)

Really? I won a prize? Can I ask for it to be a second season of "Firefly"? Big, pretty please with sugar on top!

Ali D :~)
You can't take the sky from me...

PLATONIST

Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:19 PM (P)

I think fans are uncomfortable with the BDM because Joss used the opportunity to change the verse and people generally don't like change because they view it as something negative. And the changes are abrupt because the story was originally to take place over 2 years, not a week. They become insecure on how they view and understand the verse.

But if you look carefully at the sequence of events in the movie and the discovery of Miranda and its impact on the crew and their relationships it makes sense in order to move the story forward, otherwise the verse stays stagnant where nothing happens and people don't change. That's just not the way life is.

And, after reading the new comics, Wash's death is even more poignant because he had dreams of a life with Zoe that she was unable to create with him. Zoe has too much baggage from the aftermath of the war that she hasn't dealt with or even told Wash about. Also, she insists on staying with Mal, even when her husband wants her to leave so they can start a life together. It eventually becomes a poor choice on her part, and maybe that’s what Joss wants us to see in Wash’s death and not to just to make Zoe a badass again. Though, I have a feeling that’s where the next movie will start with her.

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:27 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:

I think fans are uncomfortable with the BDM because Joss used the opportunity to change the verse and people generally don't like change because they view it as something negative. And the changes are abrupt because the story was originally to take place over 2 years, not a week. They become insecure on how they view and understand the verse.

But if you look carefully at the sequence of events in the movie and the discovery of Miranda and its impact on the crew and their relationships it makes sense in order to move the story forward

i think you're right - i've never fully grasped the supposed continuity shift/breakdown
between the show and the BDM.
It all feels done with a purpose
and everything DOES move forward.

Quote:
otherwise the verse stays stagnant where nothing happens and people don't change. That's just not the way life is.

that's always gonna be a hard pill
for fans of any of joss's shows, comics, musicals etc!

Quote:
And, after reading the new comics, Wash's death is even more poignant because he had dreams of a life with Zoe that she was unable to create with him. Zoe has too much baggage from the aftermath of the war that she hasn't dealt with or even told Wash about.

yeh... but much as i love the developments in
Better Days, (and i really do) they're retro fitted
after having written/filmed the movie.

(sidebar - my formatting is frakked today -
everything's coming out haiku!)

PLATONIST

Thursday, July 10, 2008 8:46 PM (P)

Yeh... the comics are a retro fit, but I've always thought that about Zoe... and Wash. It could have worked if she chose her husband and marriage over her misplaced loyalty to Mal and she should have faced the ghosts of her past before she committed to a marriage.

In the comics Joss is developing her flaws like the rest of the crew have. Fans make her and Mal far more heroic then intended.

WYTCHCROFT

Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:08 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:

In the comics Joss is developing her flaws like the rest of the crew have. Fans make her and Mal far more heroic then intended.

absolutely - not only do i agree but it's one of the reasons
i love the comics and wish more fans would come onboard.

the character development is great:)
(especially, but not exclusively, in Better Days)
and again -
everything done with a steely sense of purpose.

PLATONIST

Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:55 PM (P)

Yeh...it’s all good, the Pilot, the Series, the BDM, and now the comics, which are a must read if you are writing and waxing in this verse (even if they are a retro fit), and Mal and Inara have tea without fighting and he now knows she's ...ahh...I can't write it... I may start crying. It’s so sad.

There goes my favorite character… damn you, Joss!

HUGHFF

Friday, July 11, 2008 12:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:

I think fans are uncomfortable with the BDM because Joss used the opportunity to change the verse and people generally don't like change because they view it as something negative. And the changes are abrupt because the story was originally to take place over 2 years, not a week. They become insecure on how they view and understand the verse.

Except that I saw the bdm before I saw the series and almost didn't buy the series as a consequence.

In the end, I bought Firefly because I thought Serenity was good enough for another go when I found the series on sale at 50% off. If I hadn't been able to pick it up cheaply, I may not have bothered.

I get considerably more out of the bdm knowing the series but it isn't as good. It lacks the richness of all the relationships, stripping events down to an action story and those relationships which can be fitted into that plot, thus: Book, and his whole thematic relationship with Mal - gone; the big sister/little sister relationship Inara and Kaylee shared - gone; the strong contrasting personalities of Mal and Inara trying to work out how to love each other without sidelining themselves - sidelined. There's more besides but I think you get my point.

To paraphrase Joss, Firefly was about 9 people living in the uncaring vastness of space; Serentiy was about a bunch of heroes (admittedly somewhat unlikely but we all love the underdog) standing up for what is right and winning in the final reel.

www.cpfc.org - my life

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, July 14, 2008 5:55 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I had forgotten to point out that I understood that Joss had FILMed every episode.
How fitting for a big screening of a movie that Fox refused to broadcast until after cancellation.
Pilot won an Emmy.
Did BDM win any awards?

I noticed Summer Glau won her first Saturn for Serenity.
Plus it won Best SciFi movie of all time by SFX magazine.

Apparently current votes are 13 for Pilot Serenity, 2 for BDM Serenity. Those programmers at Fox are geniuses, for sure.

WENDYPOPS

Thursday, September 4, 2008 9:30 PM (P)

Ahhh, it's hard to compare the two because films work differently from TV.

I would say that BDF (i hate the word 'movie') is just about as perfect a film as you can get.

The pilot... it was never a film, so it's set up differently. It's introducing people slowly and ending on much more of a "..." than a "." If you catch my drift?

Argh... i'm going to go with the film. Because in the space of 2 hours, it plays with me and my emotions much more than the pilot does in that time.

--------------------

CHRISISALL

Thursday, September 4, 2008 9:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:

am i the only one who thinks the BDM is gorram funny too?

It's hi-larious in spots. It's my pick as well.

Mirandaisall

WYTCHCROFT

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by WendyPops:
Ahhh, it's hard to compare the two because films work differently from TV.

True. Completely different medium.

(though it's always nice to catch episodes on a big screen!:))

same with the comics.

EVILDINOSAUR

Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:26 PM (P)

when it comes down to any episode up against the movie, the episode always wins. The series was so much better than the movie, I'm glad we got the movie, but it didn't stand up at all to the series.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, September 12, 2008 8:56 AM (P)

Current votes seem to be 14 for Pilot Serenity and 3 for BDM Serenity.

SAFEAT2ND

Friday, September 12, 2008 2:31 PM (P)

Sorry, but I vote for the pilot as well.

Different mediums aside, I just liked it better.

I've said it before, if the BDM is truer (is that even a word?) to Joss's original vision, then my hatred for Fox aside, I liked their watered down version better.

Bear in mind I was not a pre-exsisting Joss fan before Firefly and as such had no pre-conceived notions on how he did things.

While I LOVE Firefly and by extention the BDM, I am still not a Joss fanatic. To put it in perspective, I liked the Buffy movie not the series, but that's a whole 'nother arguement...

That said, I didn't hate the BDM, just didn't like it as much.

_______________________________________________________________
"Got a headful of lightning
And a heart full of rain
And I know that I said
I'd never do it again
Oh and I love you sweet baby but I always take the long way home."

WINDIE

Friday, September 12, 2008 3:58 PM (P)

Has to be the pilot for me, defining TV at its very best.

Couldn't tell you how many times I have watched it but I tend to notice new things every now and again.

Why have they taken the sky from ME

PIRATECAT

Friday, September 12, 2008 4:02 PM (P)

The pilot. The BDM. NO the pilot. No the BDM. Ok let me get back on that.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

FIREFLY151

Friday, September 12, 2008 4:40 PM (P)

This is a great thread!

I expected people to choose the BDM, only because I thought that was better. But I can see now why people love the pilot even more. Still, majority aside, I'm going with the BDM.

I saw the movie before the series (well actually I saw the very end of Ariel first), and I loved it. It was because of the movie that I wanted to see the TV show. But that doesn't make the movie better.

What makes the movie better is the fact that it's a story in one. On its own, the pilot is just a beginning. It doesn't have a real ending, while the movie has its own complete story. True, the pilot focuses on many characters, but that's part of being a pilot. The movie has to focus on the story, which means less characters get a focus, but instead it develops a more steady, interesting storyline. The movie focused on what I was most interested in in the series - the Alliance and River. I feel a little guilty for prefering the futuristic episodes of Firefly, but that's just me. Thanbkfully, the BDM had lots of that, the special effects, tech and future ideas were great. And even better, it had a balance. There was still a bar fight, 'country town' planets and some punches thrown. Just on a bigger scale.

Yes, Book's death was terrible. It was completely unnecessary, not everyone on Haven had to die. Maybe they did, to give the story those emotional effects, but Book? It was unfair. Wash, on the other hand... Very often I read about Firefly fans complaining of Wash's death. I, however, don't mind it (but yes, of course, I'm sad about it). His death, when I first watched the movie, really made me wonder who was going to survive. A major character had just been killed! Would it happen again? What chance was there for the others? Wash's death really gave the final scenes a sense of loss and disaster. Anything could have happened. And as for Wash's and Zoe's future? Well, Whedon wasn't going to make more Firefly anyway, was he? And if he did, I'm sure Zoe would've have been revealed as pregnant, as many people have suggested.

So, for many reasons (and probably most not mentioned) I choose ... hmm... Serenity or Serenity? The BDM!

Keep Writing, Keep Flying

MISSTRESSAHARA

Saturday, September 13, 2008 12:54 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by safeat2nd:
Sorry, but I vote for the pilot as well.

Different mediums aside, I just liked it better.

I've said it before, if the BDM is truer (is that even a word?) to Joss's original vision, then my hatred for Fox aside, I liked their watered down version better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^THIS!

I've watched the show since it first aired in 2002, and I was among many who was on the edge of their seats waiting for the movie to be released and going to the theater with light in my eyes and a smile on my face....... and when I came out there was a heaviness, not just disappointment about Wash and Book, but everything, EVERYTHING was off. Nothing made sense, and I didn't recognize any of the characters anymore. It was like a totally different series of characters. As unpopular as this may sound I think I would have preferred no movie at all, then my memories would be of the series and I wouldn't get this bitterness at the back of my throat. I don't know what I went to see, but it wasn't my BDH, and it wasn't Firefly.

And to head people off, I get the change thing, Joss's verse, wanted to make it darker, no it wasn't Firefly it was Serenity, blah, blah, blah....

To me, the movie will always be inferior. Hell, it's not even in my top 10. MOHO.

*~A footer is the closing of an article, not a kinky sex move~*

MOONDOG

Friday, December 19, 2008 5:37 AM (P)

I really loved both of them and I think it's unfair to make me decide. One thing I would like to bring up is that the BDM is what Joss had envisioned (more or less) of the series had it been allowed to run several seasons. In making the BDM he was forced to condense several years down into 2 hours and things suffer as a consiquence. As to the BDM being Mal/River centered, If the existing episodes are examined in order, that is what the whole story was about. The soul journey of two people facing their personal demons with the support of those qround them. All of the others (People are gonna hate me for suggesting this) are there to define them with their interactions.

COLE23

Friday, December 19, 2008 6:15 AM (P)

I loved the film,but i'll pick the tv pilot everytime.I'm a film guy to,so that's unusual.The reason is simple,the pilot was all about character advancement.The movie was about advancing the story.I'm a guy that loves dialogue and character development.I'll take it over action everytime.Well,maybe not in this shows case,when i think about it.That is one reason Firefly/Serenity is so good.There is hardly any brainless action.When you see a character enter into a fight sequence it's hardly ever just so you can see him or her kick some ass,the action is usually an extension of the characters personality.In other words when Hal shoots the fed in the pilot,it's an extension of his take charge,do what has to be done,no BS,personality.
Another example is the entire crew in the War Stories episode.All the action added to the character development.Like Book shooting a guard in the knees.Sure he's a Shepherd,but he's not going to stand around and preach while his friend is being tortured.That scene told us more about his character than pages of dialouge would have.
Did all that make any sense?haha

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, January 22, 2009 6:55 AM (P)

Current totals are 18 votes for Pilot Serenity, 4 votes for BDM Serenity, and one indecisive.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:17 AM (P)

The pilot, no question.

Whenever I realize that I haven't looked at the eps for a while, I pull 'em out and start off in order. Don't ever get past the pilot in one session, and usually don't have to watch much more to get the feel good.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:50 PM (P)

Pilot. Easily the best of the two, there should be no question.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
Quote:
and it was just a dark movie.

am i the only one who thinks the BDM is gorram funny too?

rhetorical butler asks:
were F*X right to insist on 'warming' up the tv show??

If you haven't read the 190 page rough draft and you like the funny, you should take a look:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/fireflymovie.pdf

(link from the FFF user TWO).

It has more laughs, too many laughs for some. I found the movie failing when it took itself too seriously.

Pilot

LEEDAVIDT

Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:33 PM (P)

i actually watched the BDM way b4 i ever saw the series...

i really enjoyed the movie...

HOWEVER:

when i did purchase the series and finally sat down to watch serenity "the pilot" i was totally
blown away...
don't get me wrong...i LOVE both BDM and the series...
of course if it could be done over wash and book would never die... ( in my version of the movie) why should they?

http://www.myspace.com/leedavidt

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, July 20, 2009 8:26 AM (P)

The last 4 coworkers I've hooked all agree the Pilot Serenity is the better.
But on bluray, BDM has more enhancements than Pilot.

AGENTROUKA

Monday, July 20, 2009 8:48 AM (P)

Pilot, hands down.

I could have lived without the BDM, it let me down on too many levels to make up for its good parts.

The only things I would truly miss about the BDM are the beautiful visuals of the ship and Jayne standing up to Mal. Oh, and the music in the end scene. THAT is truly lovely. And the Operative.

The rest? Meh.

And yes, I know that the movie HAD to be the way it was because of being a different medium, but understanding why doesn't remove the fact that the movie contained very little of what I enjoyed about the series.

AURAPTOR

Monday, July 20, 2009 12:02 PM (P)

Pilot. Easy. No one dies.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

YERSINIA

Sunday, July 26, 2009 3:51 AM (P)

Shiny! It isn't "just me." Yeah, given a choice between the BDM and the pilot, I think the pilot is better -- and I can say that easily. Mostly it's for reasons others gave here (character development). This isn't to say I didn't like the movie at all though (if I hadn't liked it, my friend wouldn't have given me the series and the movie on DVD).

So yeah I saw the movie first and liked it quite a lot, but there were things I didn't really get (until I got the series, and then watched the BDM a couple more times).

IMO the BDM has some priceless scenes which I really love (and wish could have somehow been part of the series, among my favorites being River's fight scenes), but once I watched the series I found a couple of to me very disturbing inconsistencies when I put the BDM back on:

1. At the end of the series, Shepherd Book was still on Serenity, so what in Special Hell is he doing on Haven when we get to the BDM?!

2. In the series, Simon smuggles River in the box. He talks about how he'd spent time and money cultivating people get her from The Academy where the Alliance was screwing around with her brain -- and now in the BDM, SIMON is rescuing River himself? Huh?

Also I don't think the BDM had to repeat that whole "do we keep or dump the fugitives" Simon and River issue as if it'd never happened. That tension was totally excellent through the series, but supposedly had been resolved, even though Jayne tried to sell them out to the Alliance in "Ariel" which was AFTER Mal had already declared Simon to be a member of his crew and River could stay too as long as Simon kept her under control (not to mention how Mal welcomed River back to the ship at the end of "Objects in Space") -- so I think restarting that from scratch was totally unnecessary to and kind of detracted from the BDM.

So yeah, hands down, pilot for me -- even though I still like the BDM too.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

SHINYWASH

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:59 AM (P)

Like a lot of people, I saw the movie first too. My brother had to almost twist my arm to watch, but I gave it a chance because it starred Nathan Fillion, who I like and Steve the Pirate (Alan Tudyk, but at the time I only knew him as "Pirate Steve"). I thought it was pretty good, but it wasn't until the second time I watched the movie that I truly got sucked in and suddenly had this insane urge to know more about the characters and the Firefly 'verse.

After that, I just had to watch the series (which my brother had also previously tried to get me to watch). And of course, you know what happens...I completely fell in love with the whole kit and kaboodle. So after completely immersing myself in the series, I went back and watched the movie. Ugh. The movie I had previously quite enjoyed left me just a little unsatisfied.

I agree with the inconsistency of Simon all of a sudden rescuing River himself and the way Simon and River were treated by Mal, when it's already been established both in Ariel and OiS that he accepted them as part of his crew.

Like so many others, I'm upset over the death of Wash and Shepard Book. Probably because I feel like the whole Firefly story is still left to be told and they are such an integral part of it. If the series had been allowed to run its natural course and then the movie occurred and they died, it would probably be a different story. I would feel sad for their loss, but not like I've been cheated.

And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

I understand that the tv show and the BDM are two totally different mediums and have to tell their stories in different ways. The show has the luxury of taking things slower, explaining things better and ultimately, cultivating the relationships, developing the characters and showcasing the dynamics of the group, which I'm a huge fan of.

So my vote is for the pilot. Not that the BDM wasn't a good story on it's own, like I said, before I had any knowledge of what happened in the series, I thought it was very good. But it just wasn't on par with the series. The series leaves me warm and happy. The movie leaves me cold and dissatisfied.

"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing? Oh right, that would be me."

YERSINIA

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:
And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

HUH?! Oh wow, where did you get the idea that Mr. Universe sold them out? The way I saw it, the Operative found, then killed him, the same way he found and used or killed all of Mal's other allies on various planets, starting with Inara (so he'd come for her or send someone), moving on to Shepherd Book at Haven, and then those scenes of death and destruction from the other places where Mal and the crew had friends.

So I think Mr. Universe was simply found and killed, and although that message he left for Mal in his love bot ended up giving the same instructions on how to find the backup system to the Operative as it did to Mal, it was Mal for whom the instructions were actually left, and maybe because he was dying from being stabbed with the sword, he didn't have time to take any security precautions to make sure that the love bot would only tell Mal where the backup was.

So what did I miss?!

~Yersinia.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:28 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:

And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

I don't recall hearing this point of view.
Mal knew the Operative was waiting for him, on the other side of the ion cloud, and he knew this before they left Miranda.
Mr. Universe knew Mal would show up, outwitting the Operative, and left a message directly for "MAL" giving him the secret location of the intact broadcast system.

Do we really think this was a "betrayal" or just another exchange like Inara waving and not fighting so that Mal would know it was a trap, instead of her just missing him, like aa real people. I had thought Masl and Mr Universe had been reading each other beyond the surface in the "subliminal trigger" conversation.
Mr Universe didn't really have much choice but to give a good performance for the Operative while chatting with Mal.

MEATPUPPET42

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:29 AM (P)

just before Mr.U gets skewered he says "there toss me my 30 coin but i have to warn you..Ahaaaaaaaa" so I think he is selling them out for money.

Thats why I don't kiss them on the mouth.

SHINYWASH

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:33 PM (P)

Yup, that's it exactly. "Toss me my 30 coin". Mr. Universe sold them out, but he doesn't realize that the Operative doesn't bargain. He figured he could help lure them in, get paid for it and as Serenity approached the base, the Operative would take them out - they'd be none the wiser.

After he realized he was double-crossed, he then leaves the message for Mal about the back up broadcast system.

---
"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?! Oh right, that would be me."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:22 PM (P)

Actually, I think Mr. Universe felt like he didn't have a whole lot of choice more than he WANTED to sell them out.

You'll notice the line is delivered in a very disgruntled manner, very different from the perkiness Mr. Universe had shown previously, and that not just the Operative, but a WHOLE LOT of purple bellies are in the room. I think the hacker was finally tracked down, like many of Mal's other contracts/friends, was forced to comply, and that the request for money was sarcastic.

Remember the scene in the training house, when Mal says the Operative is working this deal all crabbed, and that money should be offered first? I got a similar impression.

Also, with the previous scene where they wave Mr. Universe about what happened at the Maidenhead, there's a cut to the Operative and he already has all the information on the crew. I don't think Mr. Universe supplied the Operative with that information, I think that future camera technology has face recognition software attached to a database the Alliance keeps of it's citizens over the Cortex, something like Interpol. In the comic Better Days, it's revealed that Simon's snazzy glasses are actually specially designed to interfere with the security camera recording and face recognition software.

TWO

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:
... So my vote is for the pilot...

Do you remember when the Operative shot Mal in the back with a laser pistol? "You willing to die for that?" said the Operative. "I am...", says Mal. Bang! Bang! Bang! "But that ain't exactly Plan A." I was shocked when Mal turned his back (AGAIN!!) on the Operative. Implausible. "Nobody's that stupid...", I groaned. "Hush!", said Myriam, next to me in the theater. It turns out that Mal was smarter than I thought, at least in the original 190 pages screenplay.

Anybody got any comments on how unbelievable it was for Mal to turn his back on the Operative rather than fight him? Mal was only 5 easy paces from the Operative. The Operative still had a gun, too, but Mal didn't know it was broken. Mal was very foolish to turn his back toward an enemy with a loaded gun.

If you go to page 169 of the original 190 page script, the generator room where Mal and the Operative have their final fight was laid out differently than the movie. Mal would need to cross 40 feet, going hand over hand, to return to the place where the Operative was hiding from Mal's gunfire. In that situation, it made perfect sense for Mal to turn his back on the Operative. But that wasn't the movie that was made. Which is why I liked the TV pilot Serenity better than the movie Serenity.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is at
www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

NIKI2

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:11 PM (P)

Coming in waaaaay late, but what the heck, its been brought to the surface again. So my vote is: Series pilot, by a mile. It's filled with humanity...the movie is "bigger", but has far less humanity to it...human interaction, "just folk" stuff, the essence of our BDHs. For me at least.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

STORYMARK

Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:28 PM (P)

For me, the BDM.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MANGOLO

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:17 AM (P)

Another late to the discussion:

I'd have to say the pilot.

One thing, as a filmmaker having worked on and made both television programs and feature films, bugs me about the BDM. I enjoyed it immensely, I laughed, I cried, I admired Joss in the feature film form, but I was left with this thought a little while later- the same amount of money spent on the BDM could have given us a whole other season of Firefly. The thought makes my eyes go blurry...dunno why. Maybe something about the disbelief in the way the entertainment industry (and entertainment lawyers) can screw the pooch.

So since, many have weighed in on the original question- here are two more hypothetical ones:

Which would you have had rather- another season of Firefly or the BDM? (I doubt they'll be any surprises with this one, but hey, surprise me)

Since the BDM didn't really make a profit until long after its run in the theaters (and that still is in question, as far as I know, due to the division of the rights to the revenue), which would have made more money for the folks who paid the bills-another season of Firefly or the BDM?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=86085840444

TWO

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
So since, many have weighed in on the original question- here are two more hypothetical ones:
Which would you have had rather- another season of Firefly or the BDM? (I doubt they'll be any surprises with this one, but hey, surprise me)

I would have wanted another season of TV (20 episodes, 45 minutes each, 900 minutes total) more than another 120 minute movie. The movie could have been made into 4 episodes followed by episodes during the rebuilding of Serenity. With Serenity broke-down, the crew is grounded -- no running away each week to a new planet. They have a whole new set of problems.

There could be stories about how River got sane. Comedy when hilariously vulgar Jayne gets a local girlfriend who has kids needing a father figure. The crew can switch from strong arm criminals to con-men. The crew become local heroes because of Miranda! For better pay and longer life expectancy, Kaylee quits Mal to work in the shipyard where Serenity is being repaired. And when that gets boring, the repairs on Serenity are finished and they all take-off for a third season back in outer space.

The TV show will need a long-term villain. Keep the Operative but use him very sparingly; he may have lost his faith in the Parliament, but he is still a patriot of the Alliance. He has secret plans for River. And the show will need a long-term existential danger -- make the Reavers smart and more than cannibal Zombies easily annihilated with a thousand ship-to-ship missiles.

And killing Wash? That was all part of Joss Whedon's secret master plan -- much like killing John Locke on the fabulously successful series Lost. And Joss killed Wash years before Lost killed Locke than brought him back to life. Joss was there first and J.J. Abrams stole the idea because Joss wasn't using it. Same thing with Battlestar Galactica killing Starbuck than miraculously bringing her back to life. If Lost and Battlestar can do it, Firefly can do it better.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Since the BDM didn't really make a profit until long after its run in the theaters (and that still is in question, as far as I know, due to the division of the rights to the revenue), which would have made more money for the folks who paid the bills-another season of Firefly or the BDM?

Make more money selling a second season of Firefly on dvd than Serenity movie. (I'm assuming the second season is still on Fox, Friday nights, and has few viewers.) People will pay more for 6 dvd in a season than 1 dvd in a movie.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is at
www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

SHINYWASH

Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:14 PM (P)

Hands down, I would have preferred another season of Firefly over the BDM.

As I stated before, I love the interaction of the characters, their development and the relationships between them that you just can't get in a movie.

Perhaps another season, or at least just letting them finish the first season would have made a difference. Unfortunately, people tend to judge things by their cover and on its cover, Firefly appears like it's "Cowboys in Space", Westerns meet Sci Fi. Okay, so it is, but it really is so much more than that. Joss Whedon, (albeit brilliantly) melded two genres that are niche genres. I personally don't like Westerns nor do I care too much for Sci Fi. So looking at the show's surface, I never would have paid attention to the series when it was originally running, unless someone bashed it into my head how good the show was.

They just needed to give it a little more time for the word to spread, for people to realize the brillance that Firefly is.

"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?! Oh right, that would be me."

YERSINIA

Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:08 AM (P)

Wow, yeah! I'd have liked another season of Firefly better than the BDM too.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

MANGOLO

Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:10 AM (P)

Nathan is having such success with Castle, now I doubt we can get him back for more than a mini-series.

YERSINIA

Thursday, September 24, 2009 3:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Nathan is having such success with Castle, now I doubt we can get him back for more than a mini-series.

I'd think they'd have ALL moved on with their acting careers by this time, and I don't think the return of Firefly is ever actually going to happen. It's just that when the idea that the cost of making the BDM could have instead paid for another season of Firefly was suggested, and, the question of which was preferable of these two alternatives -- BDM vs. another season's worth of Firefly episodes was asked -- I personally would have rather had the episodes instead of the BDM.

Ah, well....

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, January 10, 2010 11:55 AM (P)

Updating the vote totals.
32 for Pilot Serenity, 5 for BDM Serenity.

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Friday, January 29, 2010 5:29 AM (P)

The Pilot is superior, without a doubt.

DMI

Wednesday, March 17, 2010 2:15 PM (P)

Quote:

BDM hands down. The pilot is great and all but it's only a piece of a bigger story. If I have to go with a stand alone 2 hours of the verse then the BDM wins easily.

I think the pilot stands alone better than the movie does. You don't have to know anything about the 'verse to appreciate the pilot but I know several people who saw Serenity and, though they liked it, they didn't understand why it was such a big deal that that preacher guy died and had other problems with putting things in context.

I vote for the pilot but I have to disagree with the browncoat who said that the BDM is inferior to the worst episode of the series. Worse than Heart of Gold? Really?

If JewelStaitFan's last numbers are right then we're now at 34 for the pilot and 6 for the BDM.

I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

LAUREN779

Monday, July 12, 2010 8:25 PM (P)

I can not not love them both, and it's hard for me to choose. I loved how the Pilot introduced all the characters beautifully, and how significant each member was to the crew. I also loved the BDM because, for me, it strengthened the pilot episode, especially on Miranda when Mal is giving is speech about how each came on this ship for different reasons, but we all need to stay together-or something like that (though I will admit that I missed Book in that scene).

CORTEXOVERRIDE

Tuesday, August 10, 2010 7:09 PM (P)

The pilot seemed more original in it's visual storytelling from the 'gritty look' that was portrayed through David Boyd's cheap camera lenses to the locations that were chosen to shoot on. Now don't get me wrong, I do love the BDM, but I would love it more if it didn't have as many similarities to the animated flick TITAN A.E. Not only does it have a similar back story, as well as the characters and the environments, but also some of the action sequences were 'cookie cuttered' from that film and placed into the BDM. Well, 2 of the 3 screen writers for that film were Joss Whedon and Ben Edlund, so that probably explains it.

______________________________________________
> Can You Teach People How To Think? Think About It!

TOADSMOOTHY

Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:51 PM (P)

Definately the Pilot Serenity for me.