The Destruction of the US Dollar
POSTED BY: JaynezTown
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2008 00:43
VIEWED: 21176
PAGE 2 of 2
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
There are LOTS of Billionaires in Zimbabwe !
And , we ALL want to be Billionaires , Right ?
All of which makes you think about it, when you hear how many billionaires have been created in the last decade or so in the United States. Sure, they're billionaires and all, but a billion ain't what it used to be! :)
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money!"
Unless, of course, it's Zimbabwean money...
Quoth Monty Python: "My brain hurts."
Yeah , cackle-latin' an inflation rate of a couple MILLION percent is bound to make anyone's brain hurt...
There's the rub...Zimbabwean money ain't real...US Federal Reserve Notes ain't real...
And , predators (Reavers !) ain't real...
But , hey ! Since it's phony 'money' anyway , it won't matter that hundreds of Billions more 'Notes' are destined to ensure
UN-IF-FIC-aTION , " enforce the peace " , Disarm any potential Opposers , and bring all the settlers of the world to a more equal level of Poverty , Right ?
Makes everyone feel all Warm and Fuzzy , knowing that there's a devil put aside for each of Us...
Right ?
Now we can just embrace one another , and sit around the campfire and sing happy songs...
Right ?
" The Captain's got a Plan , right ? "
" The world's two biggest financial institutions have had a heart attack. The global currency system is breaking down. The policy doctrines that got us into this mess are bankrupt. No world leader seems able to discern the problem, let alone forge a solution.
The International Monetary Fund has abdicated into schizophrenia. It has upgraded its 2008 world forecast from 3.7pc to 4.1pc growth, whilst warning of a "chance of a global recession". Plainly, the IMF cannot or will not offer any useful insights."
<" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourVi
ew&xml=/money/2008/07/21/ccview121.xml>
< http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56405>
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You think that currency isn't real ? Just wait till the banks close and you can't get of that phony stuff out. Trust me, it'll hurt.
***************************************************************
Like gold, or wampum, or bits of metal with the head of Julius Caesar stamped onto the side - currency is as valuable as we think it is.
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Well you're right and you're wrong there Rue. True, you're not going to walk out of a WalMart with groceries for the week without notes, but there worth is based only on people's perception of what their value is.
Take, for instance, how because of the price of copper has gone up so high while the value of the dollar has gone down, because the Fed doesn't have the balls to raise interest rates, that now it is becoming lucrative to melt down pennies and cash them in. It's not making a ton right now, but if we see both of those trends continue on, we'll likely eliminate the penny altogether as we run out of lighter and cheaper metals to keep mixing with that copper.
It's really why Capitalism gets a bad name in my book. There really isn't a Free Market or even True Capitalism when you have notes that aren't backed up by anything but a promise and the big boys on top can raise or lower interest rates to effect us common folk significantly in our decisions.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You think that currency isn't real ? Just wait till the banks close and you can't get of that phony stuff out. Trust me, it'll hurt.
No...It's not 'real'...It's not Lawful Money !
That's the whole point...'Debt' is Democratized , but Real Value , is Privatized...
Elitist , neo-Fascist Corporatocracy , coming to a neighborhood near you...
If I put my hands on any 'bank Notes' , for any reason , I'm sure to convert them to True Substance as soon as possible...
So , no worries...When the 'Alliance' decides to 'crash my accounts' , there won't be much point to it anymore...
Read the Links , Dude...
Folk can't help themselves if they're not informed...
I've noticed that Folk tend to not want to acknowledge the nature of the problem , although they do take stabs all around it...
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Well you're right and you're wrong there Rue...
Take, for instance, how because of the price of copper has gone up so high while the value of the dollar has gone down, because the Fed doesn't have the balls to raise interest rates, that now it is becoming lucrative to melt down pennies and cash them in. It's not making a ton right now, but if we see both of those trends continue on, we'll likely eliminate the penny altogether as we run out of lighter and cheaper metals to keep mixing with that copper.
It's really why Capitalism gets a bad name in my book. There really isn't a Free Market or even True Capitalism when you have notes that aren't backed up by anything but a promise and the big boys on top can raise or lower interest rates to effect us common folk significantly in our decisions.
If folk would ever bother to re-check the Coinage Act (1792) , they'd know that the poorest folk were well protected , in the original instance...Pennies were Worth MORE than their 'face value' , so that in a worst case situation , if anyone had as much as a few cents on hand , they'd still have something of True Substance , of significant worth and VALUE , that could be traded for other commodities of worth...
Now , since 1964 , even 'Silver' coins have had their worth extracted , and they're the non-Lawful 'cupro-nickel sandwich' , in the best case...
The pennies , as it turns out , are an even more egregious abuse...They used to be solid copper , but for more than 20 years are substantially , 'copper-washed zinc' , which is banker/lawyer/politician Federal Reserve Suckerese for 'there goes your True Substance and your Lawful Money yet again , chumps !'...
A fortunate few are able to find old pennies and melt them for exchange for the 'Bank Notes of the realm'...
The Liars and Deniers persist , but they are 'Heroes' at the expense of everyone else...
Witness the Worldwide Demand for frickin' manhole covers and sewer grates as 'currency'...
That's some big dang 'Coin' for common folk to have to tote around , but hey , the desperate do what has to done...
< http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PCTA_e
nUS286&q=stealing+manhole+covers>
< http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=stealing+manhole+covers>
Oh yeah , the 'upscale' criminals are stealing the catalytic converters off of parked cars...A hacksaw will get you into that 'business'...
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Quote:Yeah O2B, that's what I said
families using worthless bank notes to burn furnaces because it was cheaper than buying firewood.
Quote:I am well aware of hyperinflation. My MIL lived thru it.
Even paper money might have a higher value... as kindling, if nothing else
So?
Quote:I note, once again for the record, that wars, depressions, unfair taxes, and usury all existed well before the Federal Reserve... or indeed banks... came into existance. Ridding ourselves of the Federal Reserve will not eliminate those problems!
The Federal Reserve is incapable of accomplishing its stated objectives.
It is a cartel operating against the public interest.
It's the supreme instrument of usury.
It generates our most unfair tax.
It encourages war.
It destabilizes the economy.
Instead of trying to convince of the "bad stuff" the Fed ISN'T responsible for, why don't we focus on the problems Fed IS responsible for???
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Yeah O2B, that's what I said
families using worthless bank notes to burn furnaces because it was cheaper than buying firewood.Quote:I am well aware of hyperinflation. My MIL lived thru it.
Even paper money might have a higher value... as kindling, if nothing else
So?Quote:I note, once again for the record, that wars, depressions, unfair taxes, and usury all existed well before the Federal Reserve... or indeed banks... came into existance. Ridding ourselves of the Federal Reserve will not eliminate those problems!
The Federal Reserve is incapable of accomplishing its stated objectives.
It is a cartel operating against the public interest.
It's the supreme instrument of usury.
It generates our most unfair tax.
It encourages war.
It destabilizes the economy.
Instead of trying to convince of the "bad stuff" the Fed ISN'T responsible for, why don't we focus on the problems Fed IS responsible for???
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
Gah !
Oh , problems the Federal Reserve IS Responsible for , like Usurping the Constitutional Mandate that only Congress can 'COIN' Money...
Little Things , like THAT ? Little Things , like being the CAUSE of CHRONIC INFLATION , by 'creating Money' out of thin air , but then re-loaning it , AS IF it were REAL ?
Little Things , like giving Congress an 'inexhaustible' Open Book of BLANK CHECKS , with which to create CHRONIC , UNPAYABLE , DEBT for this Country , and thereby submit Generations of a once-FREE PEOPLE to INDENTURED SERVITUDE IN THEIR OWN HOMELAND ?
You just LOVE the FEDERAL RESERVE , don't you ? ...which isn't even FEDERAL , which isn't even a RESERVE ; and while CENTRAL BANKS all over the World are FAILING , you just want to excuse them all , and ignore the Facts of History , Facts of Economics , all the while insisting that you're Right...
Go ahead , straighten up the deck chairs ; Ask the Band to Play some Happy Tunes ; never mind about assisting the Women and the Children to the Lifeboats , Siggy wants to indulge his Fantasy that Everything is Okay , no one is really Responsible , all this has happened before...
...While RMS 'Titanic' , unsinkable though it may be , sinks inexorably toward the bottom of the icy North Atlantic...
So , poor folk using manhole covers as currency , as True Substance , still makes no impression upon You...
That redefines the Meaning of THICK , dunnit ?
At one time I had tens of millions of German Deutsch Marks , and I knew some fellows who'd survived the Nazi internments...
...One of whom is still alive...But , none of that allows me to be so dismissive of 'The Grand Sweep Of History' , in such a way as you're able to delude yourself into doing...
What DOES your Mother-In-Law have to do with this ? Did she tell you that 'everything will be all right' ?
Ignorance is still BLI$$ , for your ilk...
In all that you uncovered in your digging , you didn't take note of that term , 'seignorage' , and you didn't also apprehend that it enables 'nobles' , and 'representatives' of Governments , to foment and FINANCE wars , for Fun and Profit...
That makes you as guilty as the Evildoers...You are condemned to do Nothing about EVIL , because you elect not to recognize it...You are one of THEM...
" Forget what you think you know...Forget what your mother told you when she tucked you in at night...Forget the LIES of our cabalistic , Allied Governments..."
Okay , so if you're correct , nobody should be concerned that a number of men met IN SECRET some years ago , and that while those same men controlled between 1/6th to 1/4th of THE WORLD'S WEALTH at that time , and Established both the 'Federal Reserve' and the 'Income Tax' for their own , personal benefit , that no Folk should be concerned about it ? Despite the Fact that none of Us got to Vote on that ?
Okay , well , I haven't noticed anyone mistaking you for smart...
Just 'cause you've still not d
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Here's an excerpt from a free , and condensed , version of Hayek's book :
..." The conflict with which we have to deal is a fundamental one between two irreconcilable types of social organization, which have often been described as the commercial and the military. In either both choice and risk rest with the individual or he is relieved of both. In the army, work and worker alike are allotted by authority, and this is the only system in which the individual can be conceded full economic security. This security is, however, inseparable from the restrictions on liberty and the hierarchical order of military life - it is the security of the barracks.
In a society used to freedom it is unlikely that many people would be ready deliberately to purchase security at this price. But the policies which are followed now are nevertheless rapidly creating conditions in which the striving for security tends to become stronger than the love of freedom.
If we are not to destroy individual freedom, competition must be left to function unobstructed. Let a uniform minimum be secured to everybody by all means; but let us admit at the same time that all claims for a privileged security of particular classes must lapse, that all excuses disappear for allowing particular groups to exclude newcomers from sharing their relative prosperity in order to maintain a special standard of their own.
There can be no question that adequate security against severe privation will have to be one of our main goals of policy. But nothing is more fatal than the present fashion of intellectual leaders of extolling security at the expense of freedom. It is essential that we should relearn frankly to face the fact that freedom can be had only at a price and that as individuals we must be prepared to make severe material sacrifices to preserve it.
We must regain the conviction on which liberty in the Anglo-Saxon countries has been based and which Benjamin Franklin expressed in a phrase applicable to us as individuals no less than as nations: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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Toward a Better World
TO BUILD a better world, we must have the courage to make a new start. We must clear away the obstacles with which human folly has recently encumbered our path and release the creative energy of individuals; We must create conditions favorable to progress rather than "planning progress. " It is not those who cry for more "planning" who show the necessary courage, nor those who preach a "New Order," which is no more than a continuation of the tendencies of the past 40 years; and who can think of nothing better than to imitate Hitler. It is, indeed, those who cry loudest for a planned economy who are most completely under the sway of the ideas which have created this war and most of the evils from which we suffer.
The guiding principle in any attempt to create a world of free men must be this: A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. "
< http://jim.com/hayek.htm>
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If you would just read a little history, and look at the reign of the Louis XVI you'll see that despite the fact that the government had a monopoly on currency AND it created its coins out of gold there was STILL massive unemployment, poverty, injustice, debt, inequality and... ultimately.... THHHHWHACK!!! 
I'm a little too busy to tackle your post point by point. I don't deny there are problems. Heck, ask anyone around here, I'm the Eeyore of capitalism and even more pessimistic about the dollar. I just don't see the Fed being the sole problem, or even the most important one.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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.... and how could you say otherwise?, given that "planning progress" is at the heart of your political zeitgeist.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:Bless you.
Originally posted by SergeantX:
zeitgeist.
Tissueisall
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Quote:By this do you mean my belief is that if "the Fed" didn't exist, something like it (a centralized agency) would have to take its place?
.... and how could you say otherwise?, given that "planning progress" is at the heart of your political zeitgeist.
We see how well that worked for good 'ole Louis, right?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:By this do you mean my belief is that if "the Fed" didn't exist, something like it (a centralized agency) would have to take its place?
.... and how could you say otherwise?, given that "planning progress" is at the heart of your political zeitgeist.
We see how well that worked for good 'ole Louis, right?
By "this" I mean that when you say "we should", what you really mean is that the majority should decide what the rest of us must do.
That quote about those who would "Plan Progress", rather than merely let it happen, just struck me as particularly insightful description of the differences in mindset. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) on the side of things that says we can't have real progress without conformity, and that what "we should" do, is best decided centrally and universally.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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"Well you're right and you're wrong there Rue. True, you're not going to walk out of a WalMart with groceries for the week without notes, but their worth is based only on people's perception of what their value is."
My point exactly - but it's also true of "gold, frankincense and myrrh" (whatever happened to frankincense and myrrh ? they're so out of the picture they're not even quaint), silver, copper, platinum (which used to be called 'bastard silver' b/c of its ultra-high high melting point that made it impossible to refine and form, and which was so worthless it was used as ballast), titanium, diamonds (whose value comes not from actual scarcity b/c diamonds are mined by the front-loader-full, but from tight control of the supply), rubies, emeralds ... wampum, Roman coins, spices from the Far East, salt (yes, salt, it's where the word 'salary' comes from), tulip bulbs ... or pretty much anything else that's been denominated as 'valuable' at one time or another.
In terms of value, it's ALL perception and circumstance. Gold is no exception.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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SargeX, my view in brief... Once human societies get past the size where people can deal directly with each other... say, about 100 people... then certain things happen that are beyond individual action: the division of labor and specializaton, development of complex language and writing, trade and migration, etc.
One of those trends is the concentration of power.
The anarchist solution (HK, Frem) is that if people are taught to exercise their individual authority then people will be more or less equal and societies will not become distorted by huge differences in power. In my view, the concentration of power is beyond individual action to reverse, and mechanisms need to be in place which aggressively and positively place power in the hands of individuals.
Democracy is one such system which deliberately places political authority into individual's hands. The internet is a system that allows free communication, and thus provides anyone with an avenue towards the power of pursuasion. Certain religions (like UU) encourage individual ethical responsibility. Economic democracy is a system that requires people to take a proactive stance towards production. That, combined with teaching and healing individuals, might create a stable society which does not develop into an unstable hierarcy.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
mechanisms need to be in place which aggressively and positively place power in the hands of individuals.
One of those mechanisms is the right and ability to possess weapons capable of levelling the playing field.
Sure, it's far from being the only one, but still, that IS one of them, and should remain so.
A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim.
Not sayin they're a whole solution, but it's certainly a part of one.
"The Right to Buy Weapons is The Right to be Free."
A.E. Van Vogt - The Weapon Shops of Isher.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
In my view, the concentration of power is beyond individual action to reverse
Amusing side note barely relevant to the topic...
The City Council has really overstepped themselves in a grandiose and overblown fashion recently, and managed to piss off just about the ENTIRE CITY at them this time.
Which is, without an ounce of doubt, going to lead to a recall effort in the near future, and one of the names put forth as a replacement for these creeps.....
Your friendly neighborhood Anarchist, and why ?
Because the locals have individually decided that no matter who else they put on that council, they can absolutely DEPEND on one stubborn obstructionist jackass to completely sandbag and roadblock anything that does not directly benefit the townies - not to mention the very IDEA of me actually being ON the council (after the Walter fiasco) scares the everliving shit out of them, and the locals firmly believe that politicians of any stripe SHOULD live in fear of their constituents.
The really bizarre part of it, is that nowhere within the regs does it require my consent to put me on the ballot or elect me, and they already got enough signatories *and* votes, to do it.
So in the next couple months I guess we get to put your theory to the test, at least on a small scale - I still haven't decided, should this come to pass (and at this point, there's little doubt) whether to show up and sandbag em, or stay home and deny them a Quorum...
I think it can be done, if that concentration of power pisses off ENOUGH individual folk, they'll work actively to break it, all just a matter of how much crap folk are willing to take.
So, I guess we will see.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Democracy is one such system which deliberately places political authority into individual's hands.
How are you seeing that exactly? Unrestricted democracy is the antithesis of individual sovereignty. Democracy establishes the premise that the will of the majority supersedes that of the individual. That's why, in a deliberate attempt to protect individual rights, democracy is only adopted in the US in a limited way - primarily as a tool for choosing representatives.
I've found many of your positions grounded in the premise of unlimited democracy, ie if the majority wills it, it should be so. It's a continuum, and not as black and white as we all like to pretend, so I'm sure you're willing to set some limits on democratic authority. On the other end of things, I believe democracy should be a tool of last resort - only to be applied to situations where universal conformity is the only viable solution.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:Which gets back to the implementation of advanced technology (face recognition, at-a-distance disablement, broad-based electronic snooping, WMD, even pre-emptive brain scanning).
One of those mechanisms is the right and ability to possess weapons capable of levelling the playing field. Sure, it's far from being the only one, but still, that IS one of them, and should remain so. A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim.
Not sayin they're a whole solution, but it's certainly a part of one.
I agree with you Frem. By themselves guns will not work. We need a complete armamentarium to counter these preversions of power, and that means persuading our fellow citizens, swinging elections the right way (power of the government purse), and more.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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"A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim."
But with that gun is she a match for the power of government to spy on anyone and everyone, any place and time, for any reason or no reason at all? Is she a match for the big oil multinational consortium ?
Gotta' keep saying it - the whole idea of separate individuals with handguns as a bastion of freedom is ------------- stupid.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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And holding up a piece of paper expecting it to stop your pissed off ex from knifing/shooting you is smart ?
http://www.corneredcat.com/Mindset/paper.aspx
A weapon is a TOOL, one tool in the tool box, useful in it's proper application but not a damn cure-all, why the fuck do you keep trying to strawman that position on me when I have shot it down time after time ?
A pistol or rifle is of no effective use in munging up someones spying on you, unless maybe if ya held it up in front of your face.
It's of REALLY effective use in convincing some punk with a knife to go the hell AWAY, however.
Thing is, each tool to it's purpose - and yes, personal weapons DO have a deterrent effect on abuses because you cannot FORCE an armed person to do your bidding, you have to either reason with them, or kill them, and reason becomes more cost effective.
As for spying, that's a combination of a couple factors, but the most useful tool we have as individuals is the ability to simply NOT cooperate with the system, refuse to feed it, don't rat on your neighbors, treat unreasonable questions with intense suspicion and derision.
Throughout history, surveillence societies have ONLY worked with the full cooperation of a substantial percentage of the populace playing along and ratting each other out for a pat on the head, personal advantage, what have you.
Without that... lacking enough people to cooperate, they wind up with watchers watching watchers watch, and eventually nobody's doin anything ELSE - and it all falls apart.
But that would presume that most americans had the moral courage to not prostrate themselves and lick the jackboots like good little bitches, and you'd have to convince me of that.
And it would take a DAMN lot of convincing, given my opinion of em.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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"And holding up a piece of paper expecting it to stop your pissed off ex from knifing/shooting you is smart ?"
Silly guy - did I ever say it was ? My point was you could have picked a better example for how handguns preserve our 'liberties' in the face of over-weaning governments with lots of technologies, and in the face of powerful international moneyed interests who know how to cooperate with each other for mutual gain.
And BTW there are MANY tools in the drawer - not just for personal protection, but to attain and maintain freedom.
When it comes to freedom, the first and most important is recognizing the importance of organization. Because otherwise, you're just one nut-case.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
When it comes to freedom, the first and most important is recognizing the importance of organization.
Well yeah, given that I run what amounts to a private intel cell, based on what could best be called a swarm-theory meritocracy, I'm well aware of that - it's just that I consider the modern standard heirarcy(sp?) models wide open to corruption, infiltration and intertia....
Not to mention their piss poor personnel and com security.
Using traditional top-down infrastructure in our current era is just *begging* for trouble, do we really have to discuss the why ?
There's more than one way to do it, yanno.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quick - who is more free - a Canadian or a USer ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Hello,
Rue, I don't know. I'm not a Canadian and have very little knowledge of their ways.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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This is creepy!
Not too long ago I saw this documentary that predicted this very scenario. Ooooh, it gives me the chills.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
This is creepy!
Not too long ago I saw this documentary that predicted this very scenario. Ooooh, it gives me the chills.
Please , Do tell !
I could stand to hear a little more...
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Quote:
Originally posted by out2theblack:Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Well you're right and you're wrong there Rue...
Take, for instance, how because of the price of copper has gone up so high while the value of the dollar has gone down, because the Fed doesn't have the balls to raise interest rates, that now it is becoming lucrative to melt down pennies and cash them in. It's not making a ton right now, but if we see both of those trends continue on, we'll likely eliminate the penny altogether as we run out of lighter and cheaper metals to keep mixing with that copper.
It's really why Capitalism gets a bad name in my book. There really isn't a Free Market or even True Capitalism when you have notes that aren't backed up by anything but a promise and the big boys on top can raise or lower interest rates to effect us common folk significantly in our decisions.
If folk would ever bother to re-check the Coinage Act (1792) , they'd know that the poorest folk were well protected , in the original instance...Pennies were Worth MORE than their 'face value' , so that in a worst case situation , if anyone had as much as a few cents on hand , they'd still have something of True Substance , of significant worth and VALUE , that could be traded for other commodities of worth...
Now , since 1964 , even 'Silver' coins have had their worth extracted , and they're the non-Lawful 'cupro-nickel sandwich' , in the best case...
The pennies , as it turns out , are an even more egregious abuse...They used to be solid copper , but for more than 20 years are substantially , 'copper-washed zinc' , which is banker/lawyer/politician Federal Reserve Suckerese for 'there goes your True Substance and your Lawful Money yet again , chumps !'...
A fortunate few are able to find old pennies and melt them for exchange for the 'Bank Notes of the realm'...
The Liars and Deniers persist , but they are 'Heroes' at the expense of everyone else...
Witness the Worldwide Demand for frickin' manhole covers and sewer grates as 'currency'...
That's some big dang 'Coin' for common folk to have to tote around , but hey , the desperate do what has to done...
< http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4PCTA_e
nUS286&q=stealing+manhole+covers>
< http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=stealing+manhole+covers>
Oh yeah , the 'upscale' criminals are stealing the catalytic converters off of parked cars...A hacksaw will get you into that 'business'...
It's sad that natural born American's don't know any of that. I admit that though what you say makes perfect sense, I never learned about it in school. I'm even willing to bet that it is in the textbooks somwhere between K-12, but to the best of my recollection we never covered more than 1/8 of any history book my parents paid 50 to 100 bucks for growing up.
I never knew if you were natural born or not, but I know that (at least I think I do and don't get pissed if I'm wrong) that you're of Asian descent. I know that doesn't mean that you aren't a natural born citizen or anything, but either way I appreciate it more coming from you and feel just that much more ashamed that I really know nothing about how this wonderful country had been erected and what is happening to it now by both those in power and those who stand aside and allow it to happen.
Thanks for enlightening me on that. I have no doubt that something of that significance was truly set up that way in the beginning before Government no longer existed to serve the people.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
It's sad that natural born American's don't know any of that. I admit that though what you say makes perfect sense, I never learned about it in school. I'm even willing to bet that it is in the textbooks somwhere between K-12, but to the best of my recollection we never covered more than 1/8 of any history book my parents paid 50 to 100 bucks for growing up.
I never knew if you were natural born or not, but I know that (at least I think I do and don't get pissed if I'm wrong) that you're of Asian descent. I know that doesn't mean that you aren't a natural born citizen or anything, but either way I appreciate it more coming from you and feel just that much more ashamed that I really know nothing about how this wonderful country had been erected and what is happening to it now by both those in power and those who stand aside and allow it to happen.
Thanks for enlightening me on that. I have no doubt that something of that significance was truly set up that way in the beginning before Government no longer existed to serve the people.
Thanks for sayin'...
It IS Sad , and yes it is certainly a shame , a damned , Dirty shame , that we have 'errand boys' hereabouts who'll voluntarily run to do the bidding of the Banksters and the CONgressmen who facilitate the robbing of the Wealth and Productivity of this Country...
It's a tale of Woe...One that has been repeated Innumerable Times throughout History...We're the Folk who are
CON-Dimmed to repeat the same sad History , unless more Folk can be Awakened to the Truth and Reality that are Intrinsic to our present circumstances...
There is much more Truth to be told , but those who have the most fealty to the System , and the most Cherished Illusions , stand in the way of others Having the Truth...
It's a particular oddity to me , that someone who identifies himself as a 'chemist' , has such a battle obtaining the Fact that certain items not only have an 'intrinsic' value , but that some of those same items have held their intrinsic value over millennia...
There's much more to 'History' than what is told in the books given to children...
Half of writing History is hiding the Truth...
Those who'd spin History for our Detriment and their own simultaneous benefit , are the enemies of Liberty , Freedom ,
and Prosperity for the People...
Doesn't matter if it's only Ego that drives 'em to do it , they're still as guilty as the masterminds who seek to facilitate our Demise...
Like I said , 6ix , thanks for noticing , 'cause that makes the whole battle worthwhile...
The only favor you can do ; is to share the facts that you uncover , with enough other Folk , to maybe turn the tide a bit , before the lights are blown out...
Here's a little current information about 'intrinsic' value of U.S. minted coins...Observant folk will note that the more 'current' issues have little to no melt value , but the more 'antique' True Substance coins of the Lawfully-prescribed Copper and Silver Metals , actually are worth more than their 'face' value , by a SigNyfuc*ant Margin :
< http://www.coinflation.com/>
There's also an online calculator for showing what a buck was worth , say 100 years ago , in 1908 , when there WERE Metals with Intrinsic Value as part of the Money in circulation , versus Today...
So , as an example , you could buy with 4 Cents , what would cost you an entire $1 denomination Federal Reserve Note now...
< http://www.westegg.com/inflation/>
Hey , it ain't without reason that a depiction of a 'pyramid scheme' , and the obscure motto ,
'Novus Ordo Seclorum' appear on the back of that $1 Note...Roughly translated , that's 'New Order of the Ages'...
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Not to interrupt y'alls in depth and migraine inducing conversation, BUT...
There IS nothing wrong with the US Dollar
There is NOTHING wrong with the US dollar!
There is nothing WRONG with the US dollar!
Iremist crawls into a corner and has a psychotic breakdown.....
WE JUST PUT IN A BID ON OUR FIRST HOUSE!!!AFTER WAITING 10 YEARS!!!! DON'T JINX THE ECONOMY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, after scrolling through this thread, I just may invest in LEAD, preferably in 180 grain increments............... 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iremist:
Not to interrupt y'alls in depth and migraine inducing conversation, BUT...
There IS nothing wrong with the US Dollar
There is NOTHING wrong with the US dollar!
There is nothing WRONG with the US dollar!
However, after scrolling through this thread, I just may invest in LEAD, preferably in 180 grain increments...............
Sorry , Misty...
If some do go to the break point , at least we have one another...
Yes , indeedy , if you do have a suitable shooting iron , the lead in those increments that you mentioned is bound to appreciate...
Wishing you and yours all possible affection and success on the road ahead...I'll be thinkin' of y'all , please DO stay in touch as you're able...
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Hell, they're currently trying to outlaw melting down old coins and selling the metal for more than the coins themselves were worth.
I hear theres a bit of that going on with US Nickles right know - and there's been some going on with Dimes for quite a while.
Of course, nobody much wants used green paper...
My primary assets are the ability to deliver repair services for small engines, appliances, and whatnot without the requirement of a supply chain or parts support, and those are of a value persistant as long as folk have stuff they want to work.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you would just read a little history, and look at the reign of the Louis XVI you'll see that despite the fact that the government had a monopoly on currency AND it created its coins out of gold there was STILL massive unemployment, poverty, injustice, debt, inequality and... ultimately.... THHHHWHACK!!!
I'm a little too busy to tackle your post point by point. I don't deny there are problems. Heck, ask anyone around here, I'm the Eeyore of capitalism and even more pessimistic about the dollar. I just don't see the Fed being the sole problem, or even the most important one.
The 'Eeyore of Capitalism' ?
Okay , well , actually that IS understandable , being that you've never actually seen True Capitalism in your Lifetime...
Same way that you've never actually known 'The Gold Standard' in your lifetime...
When my Grandfather was a little boy , and when he was a young person , he had , and he knew people who had
Gold and Silver Coin in their pockets...
And , now , we DON'T...
About the Federal Reserve , you don't know What It Is , so you sure can't know WHAT IT DOES...
That , also , is understandable...
Since you wanted to invoke Keynes , I'll indulge that , temporarily...
Here's what he had to say about inflation :
" By a continuous process of Inflation , government can confiscate secretly and unobserved an important part of the wealth of their citizens .
By this method , they not only confiscate , they confiscate arbitrarily , and while the confiscation impoverishes MANY ,
it enriches SOME .
Lenin was certainly right , ' There is no surer way of overturning a society , than to debauch the currency .'
The process engages ALL the hidden forces of Economic Law on the side of
DESTRUCTION , and does so in such a manner that only ONE MAN IN A MILLION is able to diagnose it..."
--The Economic Consequences Of Peace , John Maynard Keynes , 1920
Kind of makes it easy to be an 'Eeyore' , don't it ?
Still , it's worse than you know...
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you would just read a little history, and look at the reign of the Louis XVI you'll see that despite the fact that the government had a monopoly on currency AND it created its coins out of gold there was STILL massive unemployment, poverty, injustice, debt, inequality and... ultimately.... THHHHWHACK!!!
---------------------------------
Okay , admittedly , I've not taken a really-recent look at the Froggy Revolution in quite some time now , but there WERE some students of History for whom it was a much more Contemporary and relevant matter , and these were the kinds of things that they had to say :
" All the perplexities , confusion , and distress in America arise not from defects in our constitution , not from want of honor or virtue , so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin , credit and circulation ." --John Adams
" History records that the moneychangers have used every form of abuse , intrigue , deceit and violent means possible
to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance ." --James Madison
" I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous
than standing armies and that the issuing power of money
should be taken from the banks and restored to governments
to whom it properly belongs ." --Thomas Jefferson
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I'm refering to a documentary, a sort of conspiracy theory, called Zeitgeist (it was on YouTube) and in one particular part it spoke of the careful manipulation of currency in the US by the Fed (which is actually a private consortium and not a government entity).
It detailed how this group was looking to control the world market and actually get rid of paper money and control things by credit with the advent of the imbedded microchip. The microchip would be placed into everyone wrist and you would be tracked by this "chip". Some of the things it talks about have already taken place and now the latest debacle of the powerful dollar has me thinking it's predictions are not far off.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
I'm refering to a documentary, a sort of conspiracy theory, called Zeitgeist (it was on YouTube) and in one particular part it spoke of the careful manipulation of currency in the US by the Fed (which is actually a private consortium and not a government entity).
It detailed how this group was looking to control the world market and actually get rid of paper money and control things by credit with the advent of the imbedded microchip. The microchip would be placed into everyone wrist and you would be tracked by this "chip". Some of the things it talks about have already taken place and now the latest debacle of the powerful dollar has me thinking it's predictions are not far off.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
Well , it looks like we ARE bad guys...
Like Frem noted , this is dangerous knowledge to have , and to propagate...
I looked up the Zeitgeist documentary that you mentioned , and must note that it is awesome !
It's a concise explanation of the intrigues of the Banksters , and the subsequent impacts on the somnambulant public...Here's a Link to Part 1 , for them as may need it told :
" Would you be killed in your sleep , like an ailing pet ? "
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How to resist the shocking future :
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Very interesting, I'm going to look up the website later tonight.
Thanks for the info.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
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Doesn't matter if it implodes. The FED can just keep on printing the stuff like it grows on trees(oops it does).....I have a wheel-barrel
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" The Americans think they are immune to the immutable laws of economic nature. They dispatched most of their industry to the Pacific Rim , then Mexico , finally a more complex mix of Asia with China the new center. With that exodus went legitimate income. In its place was the great majority of the US Economy resting atop a housing and mortgage bubble. The heretical US economists, led by the closest thing to Mr Magoo on the planet in the former US Federal Reserve Chairman, endorsed the plan as not only sound, but advanced in risk offset price modeling. Imagine Mr Magoo a knight! Now the entire model is in the process of dissolving, taking down the entire US banking system, including most lending institutions, into the sewer of acidic pits, the wasteland of dilution, or the cemetery for bankruptcy.
Long is the path to the printing press, the ultimate supposed savior of the nation. Current US Fed Chairman Bernanke once said, “But the US government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.” His words are taken out of context, unfair to him. Sue me! The hidden cost is beyond description as huge, like ruin of a national financial foundation. It is a device that kills the host, hardly any solution. When the financial system is totally broken, when allies are totally betrayed, when investors are totally ransacked, when isolation is the spoils of current policy riddled with curried favor, the printing press remains to save the day.
What heresy! Usage of the printing press in large scale volume will earn the certain reward of astronomical gold and silver prices. The decisions to be made will determine whether a return to precious metal supremacy is accompanied either first by very high interest rates and uncontrollable credit derivative meltdowns, or second by suppressed controlled interest rates and total discouragement of savings from artificially low interest rates. Systemic meltdown awaits the first path, while continued pursuit of bubbles the second path. Either way, gold wins! The spoils will be devastation for the first path, but rationing for the second path. Both paths require the most dreaded device to be deployed at the last turn, the printing press. Other alternatives will have been exhausted.
A tragedy is in progress. For three years, my premises have centered on foreign-held debt leading to lost sovereignty, on the inevitable wreckage of the US banking system (first with insolvency, later with bankruptcy, finally consolidation and nationalization, and a long drawn out housing bear market made worse by the extraordinary extension at its peak. That pathogenesis is on course, in progress still, despite supposed rescues, most being horribly designed and full of the same broken devices that Voltaire warned about.
Few people think much about the Founding Fathers of the United States these days. They would be appalled, even say, I TOLD YOU SO. Thomas Jefferson warned specifically about handing over the power and authority over money to private banks, stating in clear terms that if granted, then in time the nation will lose their homes to bankers. We are there. The brilliant second president crafted the Constitution, an ignored document shredded by those who prefer war, fear, and private profit to liberty, free markets, and honest money, while they spout endlessly about freedom, national pride, and foreign threats. The menace is internal.
IMPERFECTIONS & DECEPTIONS
The Mortgage Relief Bill just signed into law should be regarded as a first pass at governmental rescue actions, the first of many. The first bill always represents the most difficult bill to pass. The succeeding bills will be easier, since the interference has been removed. The nationalization movement in mortgage finance has begun. The benefits will extend ranks to homeowners finally, and not exclusively to the banker elite as seen to the present date. One should note that the elite, primarily shareholders and bo
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Doesn't matter if it implodes. The FED can just keep on printing the stuff like it grows on trees(oops it does).....I have a wheel-barrel
Is that anything like a wheelbarrow?
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Jeebus Cripes, O2TB - that's some chilling shit right there!
About all I can say at this point is, "I *HOPE* it's wrong."
Even as I fear it's probably not only right, but understated.
Signs read "Rough Road Ahead"...
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
...About all I can say at this point is, "I *HOPE* it's wrong."
Even as I fear it's probably not only right, but understated.
Signs read "Rough Road Ahead"...
Mike
I get a lot of this sort of information , from a number of different sources , and it's really too much to keep up with...But , this is quite the fair summary of all the intel that I've been receiving from the various quarters...
Of course , we all should HOPE that it's all wrong...
...But , it's not .
Folk should oughta move quietly to protect their assets as best they can...
The *relative* rebound of the U.S. Federal Reserve Note against other currencies at the present time is only due to the fact that the foreign notes are doing even worse , comparatively speaking...
I hate to say it , but I've been following all the indicators and trends a long while now , and have to agree with
the above-linked analysis for the most part...
In Australia , folk are having their homes foreclosed for being as little as 1000 Au in arrears...
The credit crunch is global , and the contagion is accelerating as it spreads...
I do wish there was something very heartening to pass on , but at the moment , there's not much...
Rosy specs will have to suffice for folk who are not seeing things the same way...
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Like Mike said , a rough road ahead :
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20458.htm
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Buser's memo to next U.S. Prez
http://ccwawebintern.livejournal.com/9908.html
Quote:
What Can US Policy Makers do to Prevent a Catastrophic Melt Down?
None of the following alternative policies will provide a painless solution to a serious economic problem. Nevertheless, as we are repeatedly reminded with natural disasters, such as hurricane Katrina, ignoring a problem only serves to magnify the ultimate damage. Hence I hope that you will at least consider the following alternatives.
Policy Alternative #1
The federal government must dramatically reduce the size of the federal deficit. Only then will it be possible to relieve pressures that have built up during the past decade. As tax payers, we all appreciate the reductions in federal income tax rates that were enacted early in this decade. However, when combined with two long and expensive wars, the result was a dramatic reversal of federal budget surpluses that had been established in the late 1990s. Federal budget deficits stimulate the demand for goods and services in general. When combined with a strong US dollar and increasingly liberal trade policies, the record setting US budget deficits of this decade have had an especially strong impact on US imports.
Unlike prior budget deficits, which were largely financed domestically, US budget deficits of the current decade have been largely financed by the rest of the world. Until recently, the external financing of US budget deficits effectively shielded US consumers from the financial costs of war. The traditional tradeoff of guns versus butter was seemingly replaced by a choice of more guns along with more butter. Unfortunately, as is the case with any public or private program that is funded by a rapidly increasing debt, the illusion of a free lunch is short lived. Eventually lenders seek repayment with interest. The US has entered the early stage of the repayment phase of its war-time borrowing program. If policy makers continue to ignore the inevitable, the economic consequences will be severe....
...
HOW TO CONCEAL MASSIVE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/wag_the_dog.php
Quote:
“[T]he banking problems in the United States continue to mount, while the federal government’s deficit continues to soar out of control. . . . So what happened to cause the dollar to rally over the past three weeks? In a word, intervention. Central banks have propped up the dollar, and here’s the proof.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
HOW TO CONCEAL MASSIVE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/wag_the_dog.phpQuote:
“[T]he banking problems in the United States continue to mount, while the federal government’s deficit continues to soar out of control. . . . So what happened to cause the dollar to rally over the past three weeks? In a word, intervention. Central banks have propped up the dollar, and here’s the proof.
Thanks for this thread , Jayneztown , and for yet another great post in it !
The 'web-of-debt' website is very good , and I like that she has made some chapters available from her book...It's good reading , and more folk should look into it...
Again , thanks for everything , and particular thanks for including the great links...
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
This is creepy!
Not too long ago I saw this documentary that predicted this very scenario. Ooooh, it gives me the chills.
Shiny! Let's be bad guys!
and the bad news just keeps coming
US High-Grade Bond Market Lower On Financial Co Woes, Weak Data
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200808191215DOWJON
ESDJONLINE000331_FORTUNE5.htm
Dollar slides on higher US inflation, oil gain
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2008/08/19/ap5338276.html
Freddie Mac draws demand for debt at higher yield
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7737143
Crude Oil Advances on Weaker Dollar, Gasoline Supply Forecast
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a3J1Kh9WmPG8&refer
=australia
The US economy is in a funk
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JH19Dj08.html
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All good folk oughta check this out...
It's a new documentary film that got significant notice at Sundance this year :
http://www.iousathemovie.com/about
" It's An Inconvenient Truth for the Economy . " --Reuters
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The next credit crunchQuote:
So much for the myth of the robust economy under Bush...
Fortune Magazine -- We made it through the bursting of the Internet bubble and now the bursting of the real estate bubble. Next we may be approaching the end of the most worrisome bubble of all: the standard-of-living bubble.
That conclusion comes from the latest data on credit card debt. It's growing fast, but the problem is bigger than that - and to understand what it means, we have to take a few steps back.
For the past several years, the average inflation-adjusted total pay of American workers hasn't been increasing.
Quote:Yep, the economy's on fire alright.
... Even with stagnant real incomes, we can always live a little better every year through borrowing and pretending that our living standard is still rising, just as it was for decades. So the Great Bull Market made us feel rich, and we felt justified in saving less and borrowing - and spending - more.
After stocks collapsed, home prices took off, making us feel rich all over again. So we continued saving less and spending more, creating the illusion that our living standard was still rising. In 2005 our personal savings rate went negative, but even that didn't slow us down, because our homes were still appreciating - and rising home values meant that household net worths weren't declining. (Don't be fooled by that saving-rate spike in this year's second quarter; it was probably a one-time event resulting from the federal stimulus payments.)
Of course, we don't hear those assurances anymore. Stocks are back where they were eight years ago, and home prices are where they were five years ago.
Quote:http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/18/news/economy/Colvin_next_credit_crunch
... That's where the credit card reports come in. Last year, just as the subprime crisis happened, credit card debt took off. The home-equity ATM had been shut down, so people turned to the last source of easy money they had left, the most expensive debt on the menu, credit card borrowing. Since credit card debt has been growing much faster than the economy - more than 8% in last year's third and fourth quarters and over 7% in May (the most recent month reported)- people are apparently using it as a substitute for income. Thus, for the past year or so we have still maintained the standard-of-living illusion. But a big crunch is coming - and here's why. Credit card debt, like mortgage debt, gets bundled, securitized, and sold off by banks. Citigroup (C, Fortune 500), one of America's largest credit card lenders, just reported that it lost $176 million in the second quarter through securitizing such debt. That happens when the buyers of those securities observe rising delinquency rates and rising interest rates, and decide the debt is worth less than Citi thought. More generally, the amount of credit card debt that is securitized nationwide has plunged by more than half in the past five months because it's getting riskier. That means credit card issuers will be charging customers higher interest rates, and since the banks can't offload as much of the debt as before, they'll have less money to lend to cardholders.
.fortune/index.htm?
And this is what happens when you don't recycle cash down to the worker-bees: You have to maintain "the economy" through debt and inflation. And that is the problem with profit: it concentrates capital to the point where it chokes the economy.
Where is Fletch2 when you want to say "I told you so"?
---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The next credit crunchQuote:
Fortune Magazine -- We made it through the bursting of the Internet bubble and now the bursting of the real estate bubble. Next we may be approaching the end of the most worrisome bubble of all: the standard-of-living bubble.
That conclusion comes from the latest data on credit card debt. It's growing fast, but the problem is bigger than that - and to understand what it means, we have to take a few steps back.
For the past several years, the average inflation-adjusted total pay of American workers hasn't been increasing.
So much for the myth of the robust economy under Bush...
After stocks collapsed, home prices took off, making us feel rich all over again. So we continued saving less and spending more, creating the illusion that our living standard was still rising. In 2005 our personal savings rate went negative, but even that didn't slow us down, because our homes were still appreciating - and rising home values meant that household net worths weren't declining. (Don't be fooled by that saving-rate spike in this year's second quarter; it was probably a one-time event resulting from the federal stimulus payments.)...
...And this is what happens when you don't recycle cash down to the worker-bees: You have to maintain "the economy" through debt and inflation. And that is the problem with profit: it concentrates capital to the point where it chokes the economy .
More to the point , this is what happens when ordinary folk don't hold a currency of intrinsic value...And , when the mission of the Central Bank (Federal Reserve) is to create a chronic debt cycle , chronic inflation , and facilitate the extraction of wealth from the people...
The mission of its evil twin , the IRS , is to facilitate the interest payments on the debt that the Federal Reserve enables...
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So what's really the bottom line here to all of this? I think it's irresponsible and/or ignorant people doing things they should never do.
Buy a house with no money down?...F you!
Run up thousands in credit card debt and only make minimum payments?...F you!
Buy a home purely for speculation of a quick profitable resale?...F you!
Everyone seems to focus on blaming the banks and credit card companies for making bad loans and duping innocent people...bah! We teach our children not to take candy from strangers, but then these bad-credit adults go ahead and take the candy anyhow. I don't blame anyone who has lost a job and is having a tough time. It's personal responsibilty that has disappeared in America. There's a third-world mentality out there that drives people to attempt to attain the "American Dream"....The problem is they haven't earned it. They just feel they deserve it, there's a difference.
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AMEN!
"Everyone seems to focus on blaming the banks and credit card companies for making bad loans and duping innocent people...bah! We teach our children not to take candy from strangers, but then these bad-credit adults go ahead and take the candy anyhow. I don't blame anyone who has lost a job and is having a tough time. It's personal responsibilty that has disappeared in America. There's a third-world mentality out there that drives people to attempt to attain the "American Dream"....The problem is they haven't earned it. They just feel they deserve it, there's a difference."
HELL THE F YEAH!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
So what's really the bottom line here to all of this? I think it's irresponsible and/or ignorant people doing things they should never do.
...Everyone seems to focus on blaming the banks and credit card companies for making bad loans and duping innocent people...bah! We teach our children not to take candy from strangers, but then these bad-credit adults go ahead and take the candy anyhow. I don't blame anyone who has lost a job and is having a tough time. It's personal responsibilty that has disappeared in America. There's a third-world mentality out there that drives people to attempt to attain the "American Dream"....The problem is they haven't earned it. They just feel they deserve it, there's a difference.
Not to worry...That 'third-world' mentality will soon see a reality to match , right here in the United States...It will make it easy for the globalists to impose yet more restrictions on the people , and do it in the interest of 'national security' , via the write-down of old debt , and the incentives offered to accept the 'North American Union' , the 'Security and Prosperity Partnership' , and an overarching round of new impositions against individual and national sovereignty.
The banks and the credit card companies ARE to blame , but they couldn't do what they do without the artifice and
sleight-of-hand conducted by the Federal Reserve , which is a criminal enterprise .
As long as folk continue to put confidence in such criminal enterprises , without rejecting the non-lawful 'money' that they create from thin air , our situation will continue to devolve , and this country will continue its slide into oblivion...
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Found this interesting post by DurangoKid at FFF.net sister-site , SHINY UNIVERSE :
American Fascism - A Challenge to Browncoats?
Posted by DURANGOKID
Saturday, August 02, 2008 11:51 AM
" We must remember that government is an instrument of the bourgeoisie, as Marx would put it. As an instrument, it functions on behalf of those who pick its leaders and set their policy. There was a purpose in Hitler's Nazi state and that was the enrichment of the capital owning class that profited from the massive expenditures on war not to mention the prospect of the spoils of conquest. One could make a similar argument for Mussolini's inept foray into Abyssinia (now Ethiopia). BushReich's lawlessness also has an agenda. It's not mentioned in polite company, with perhaps the sole exception of Bill Moyers. It's the oil.
We are now at the all time peak of world oil production. Over the next several years production will gradually start to taper off. Already the traditional swing producer, Saudi Arabia, is backing away from the reflexive twisting of the tap to protect the Federal Reserves ever growing river of bank notes. By the best estimates we will likely see an annual decline in oil production of about 2.5% by no later than 2012 - 2015. Possibly it could be much sooner. The USGS is crowing about 90 billion barrels in the Arctic and vast troves on the outer continental shelves. Only a fool would take them at their word. I would direct you to Mathew Simmons regarding the prospects of deep water oil or the USGS's arctic fantasies. I would also remind you that the discoveries at Prudhoe Bay did not reverse the peak or decline in US oil production.
Hydrocarbon energy is the means by which industrial culture produces way beyond the normal carrying capacity of the Earth. Before the Industrial Revolution, solar flux was the limiting factor. Hydrocarbons have acted as an energy subsidy, a one-time endowment to do useful work. We move our machines with it. We eat it in the form of industrial agriculture. We even we wear it on our backs as synthetic textiles. Look around your home and ask yourself what you see that is not made from, powered by, or transported with hydrocarbons.
BushReich is only doing what the managers of the empire have always done. They're using the means at hand to protect the assets of the ruling elites. War is good business. War to protect the access to what powers the industrial culture is crucial to business as usual. There may be a lot of lip service to alternative energy sources, but the smart money is on oil. The alternatives currently make up about 0.7% of the energy budget and we might therefore expect that the capital outlays for their production would be equally miniscule. Compare that with the hydrocarbon based capital infrastructure. Which is more worth "defending"?
The management is preparing for the possibility of massive civil unrest when in a few years time the oil shortages go from pinch to squeeze. Over the past century the propaganda system has usually been enough to control people's beliefs and preferences so long as they were relatively comfortable. The right to a comfortable existence doesn't have much meaning when life is good. In the coming decade more people will spend a lot more time cold and hungry. They may come to realize the whole consumer world of Happy Motoring to and from their air conditioned McMansions was just a hoax to sell cars, motor fuel, air conditioners, and vinyl siding. We were told that there is no right to food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, etc., and we believed it because the ability of hydrocarbon industrial culture to provide all this was a given. Who needs the right when one has ready cash or plastic? More to the point, how will the bourgeoisie profit from every human need unless everyone has to pony up the dough?
Hydrocarbon industrial culture will not disappear overnight. Protecting its prerogatives will become more problematical as the energy base becomes more precarious. When propaganda fails to protect the status quo, internment camps, tortu
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Jong, lemme put it in drop dead simple terms, k ?
Because the assholes in charge can sink the value of the money you are holding by printing more, they can at whim pauperise you so that you cannot AFFORD basic necessities like food, transportation and housing.
And yet, since they are in control of the printing, or can just "create" the loaned amount on their own books without actually working for it, they are not subject to that particular problem - you with me so far ?
Now, these same assholes that just robbed you by devaluing your "money" - offer to "loan" you some more at usurious rates with ruininous terms which folk have no choice to accept due to collusion in the industry by same assholes regarding those terms.
And so you wind up working to feed them before you feed yourself - this is nothing more than an ungraded Company Store ripoff, only instead of company scrip, it's little green sheets of paper with no innate value of their own, and this time instead of one company, they got us all, don't they ?
REAL money, of actual innate value - if the assholes don't wanna take it for what it's worth, someone else sure as hell will, I take precious metal "rounds" for repair work because they're actually worth something whether or not the Fed says so, and those cannot be devalued by creating more out of practically thin air.
Anyhows, folks would not NEED to borrow money if the assholes did not devalue it in order to put them there, it's a near flawless variant of the Company Store Scam, and that's ALL it is.
Simple enough for ya ?
-Frem
Related Links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Jong, lemme put it in drop dead simple terms, k ?
Concise and Eloquent !
Well said...More than a little 'poetry' to it...
Even grade-school kids can 'get it' , if just directed to it...
Turns out , economics is simple...
It's all about ' The Golden Rule '...
" Whoever has the most Gold , RULES..."
Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws.
--Mayer Amschel Rothschild
Spoken like a True Kleptocrat...
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Combat Homelessness !
" Secure the blessings of Liberty to Ourselves and Our Posterity..."
" If the American people ever allow private banks
to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks and corporations that will
grow up around them (around the banks),
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless
on the continent their fathers conquered. "
--Thomas Jefferson
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"... the assholes in charge can sink the value of the money you are holding by printing more ..."
They could also drop the value of your gold by dumping it on the market, or even by talking about dumping it on the market. Nearly all of the current value of gold is in the eye of the beholder - the jewelry market where gold has a certain status - and speculation. Should gold lose that value due to a simple lack of confidence - the appeal goes down. And round and down it goes, like a flushing toilet.
Do you think that doesn't happen ? Here's a market analysis quote from 2005, which talks specifically about the role of government gold sales in the value of gold:
“The likelihood of lower central bank gold sales could keep prices firm. These banks sold an average of 14-mil oz/year (435 tonnes) since 1989. For 2005, net central bank sales may be 6-mil to 8-mil oz (186 to 248 tonnes), about half of the 12.5-mil oz (388 tonnes) sold last year and less than half of what has been coming into the market on average over the past 15 years. "This reduction in physical gold sales by central banks should contribute to tighter physical markets, and exert some upward pressure on prices," said CPM. " While central banks still own more than 1-bil oz of gold (31,100 tonnes), most appear content to hold on to most of what they have. There are a few small sales from smaller European national banks, and the French commitment to sell, announced last April. Other than that, however, there is no clear source for massive gold sales from official inventories this year, or in the near future." Also, the potential sale of IMF gold has been bogged down in international politics and is unlikely to occur any time soon.”
Now remember, a government which will devalue its paper currency will also devalue its metals one. The problem, again, is the policies, not the currency.
***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Oh, in response to a question someone asked (I forget who): I'd been alive for a few decades by the time Nixon let the value of gold float above $35, to all intents and purposes abolishing the 'gold standard'.
***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Quote:
Everyone seems to focus on blaming the banks and credit card companies for making bad loans and duping innocent people...bah! We teach our children not to take candy from strangers, but then these bad-credit adults go ahead and take the candy anyhow. I don't blame anyone who has lost a job and is having a tough time. It's personal responsibilty that has disappeared in America. There's a third-world mentality out there that drives people to attempt to attain the "American Dream"....The problem is they haven't earned it. They just feel they deserve it, there's a difference.
Turn that around, and see where that gets you. You say, in essence, that whatever the banks and credit card companies can get is fine, and f you if you don't like it. If you were talked into something you knew you couldn't afford, or weren't sure you could afford, then that's all on you.
Let's turn it around a bit. Say I apply for a credit card, and lie about my income. They don't check closely, and issue me a card with a $50,000 line of credit behind it. I max it out, then tell them I can't pay, and f you if you don't like it. Does that sound okay to you?
Reason I ask is, some of these banks and lenders WERE that blatant in their fraud. They changed peoples' income, altered their credit history, and AGGRESSIVELY went after getting them a loan that THE BANKS THEMSELVES KNEW TO BE A BAD RISK. From your point of view, the banks should be on the hook for it then, not the borrower, correct?
You'll say the borrower signed the agreement. But so did the bank. There's collusion, coercion, and deception on both sides of the transaction, you see.
I walked out of my bank because I wasn't comfortable with what they were trying to loan me. I wanted a loan of $150,000 maximum, because I knew that I would be able to make those monthly payments in the worst of circumstances. They insisted I should borrow more, "just in case". I wanted a fixed rate, they wanted to push me into an ARM. I wanted a 20-year note, they wanted to push a 30-year mortgage - which wouldn't really reduce my monthly that much, but would result in a HUGE amount of interest paid over the course of the loan.
So I walked away. Not everyone did. Banks and credit card companies aren't these benevolent companies who are out to do you a world of good - they're profit-driven, and selling you more than you need gives them more profit. They got greedy, and it bit them in the ass. Borrowers got greedy, too, and they're getting bitten by it as well.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia
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Today I got one of the tiny US dollar COINS in my change from a parking mafia machine.
It's the same size as a quarter, and looks like a quarter.
It had Jefferson's face, like a nickel. As if the dollar was devalued 95%...
The BS US Mint pictures of the new dollar coin program shows them as GOLD! BRAINWASH ALERT!
OVERSIZED fake pictures of SILVER-COLORED US dollar FRN scrap metal
www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/$1coin/index.cfm
Andrew Jackson is spinning in his grave, after being SHOT 20 times by a dozen assassins sent by the banksters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States
www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/veto/ajveto01.htm
Real gold coins are worth $250 to $1,000.
In reality the dollar coins are silver COLORED, no silver content. They are NOT silver dollars.
Real silver dollars are worth $20 to $40.
Originally, "In God We Trust" was censored on these coins, then was added on the EDGE where it's impossible to read on a tiny coin.
MASSIVELY ENLARGED fools gold fake picture of SILVER-COLORED scrap metal FRN slugs
Bend over for the Amerodollar.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
It's the same size as a quarter, and looks like a quarter.
It had Jefferson's face, like a nickel. As if the dollar was devalued 95%...
The BS US Mint pictures of the new dollar coin program shows them as GOLD! BRAINWASH ALERT!
Andrew Jackson is spinning in his grave, after being SHOT 20 times by a dozen assassins sent by the banksters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States
www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/presiden/veto/ajveto01.htm
Real gold coins are worth $250 to $1,000.
In reality the dollar coins are silver COLORED, no silver content. They are NOT silver dollars.
Real silver dollars are worth $20 to $40.
Originally, "In God We Trust" was censored on these coins, then was added on the EDGE where it's impossible to read on a tiny coin.
Bend over for the Amerodollar.
It's worse than we know. It usually is!
The Dollar has been devalued by at least 96% over the last hundred years.
God is the ONLY thing to trust in,now.
At least a few are aware of that.
The 'federal reserve' trusts in one god. His name is "Mammon".
The One I believe in isn't short of cash.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
She's a reader. Sees into the truth of things.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If you would just read a little history, and look at the reign of the Louis XVI you'll see that despite the fact that the government had a monopoly on currency AND it created its coins out of gold there was STILL massive unemployment, poverty, injustice, debt, inequality and... ultimately.... THHHHWHACK!!!
"But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint..."
--Edmund Burke Source: Reflections on the Revolution in France
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< http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aslo2E01QVFI&refer
=asia>
``If the U.S. government allows Fannie and Freddie to fail and international investors are not compensated adequately, the consequences will be catastrophic,'' Yu said in e-mailed answers to questions yesterday. ``If it is not the end of the world, it is the end of the current international financial system.''
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and it gets political
portfolio.com wrote :
During a late November interview on PBS' NewsHour, Biden points to eliminating the Bush tax cuts, pushing for transparency in the hedge fund world, and ending the war in Iraq to fix what ails the U.S. economy.
He points out to Judy Woodruff that he thinks the the nation's debt problem is deep, and having a profound impact on any recovery (Granted this was nine months ago, but only the level of pain has changed, and for the worse). "The problem we have here is that we owe China a trillion dollars. We're $2 trillion in debt to the world. The value of the dollar is falling. And why are we so much in debt? The war and tax cuts for the wealthy."
washtimes.com wrote :
McCain adviser talks of 'mental recession'
"You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said, noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices. "We may have a recession; we haven't had one yet."
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The price of rat meat is spiking upward , due to 'inflation' , :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080827/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_cambodia_rats
The government of India says that poor folk should eat more rats :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7557107.stm
" An official in the Indian state of Bihar has come up with a new idea to encourage low caste poor people to cope with food shortages - rat meat. "
Link to continuation of this thread : http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=34664
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US debt clock runs out of digits
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en
In a sign of the times the National Debt Clock in New York has run out of digits to record the growing figure.
The government's current debt at about 10.2 trillion dollars.
The organisation that runs the sign said it plans to update it next year by adding two digits to make it capable of tracking debt up to A QUADRILLION DOLLARS!!??!!!
National Debt- How Much Is A Billion Dollars?
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