Why not now fight for a animated firefly show?

POSTED BY: Ads
UPDATED: Thursday, August 29, 2024 00:25
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ADS

Saturday, February 7, 2009 3:36 PM

I only just arrived here so I don't know if this topic has already been broached but as far as I can see the best and only possibly way firefly will be continued on screen would be through an animated show. Fair enough it would never be the same as the original show but after thinking about it I think it could still be very good if it was done right.

From what I see there a several pros for making it animated. They will never get the actors back together to make a show or movie again, lets face facts. But in an animated show they don't need to. Replacing an actors voice is allot easier then replacing an actual actor and although the replacements will never sound perfect you would learn to accept them if it means you get to expierience the story go on and get to hear new Jayne Cobb one liners. They would still look like the old characters as well just not as um, real.

Of course several things would need to be done to make it acceptable. Firstly the tone would have to remain the same. No making it goofier or lessening the adult references just because it's now a cartoon. The story IMO would also be carried on from the TV episodes and completely ignore the movies existence. As far as I see the movie is a concelation prize for losing the series. Better than nothing but if we are going to keep the story going as it should have been then having a conceleation as part of it wouldn't be neccesary. Lastly and most importantly, if Joss directed this project I would never miss an episode. But if doing a cartoon is something he can't or dosn't want to do then if he can at least give an overview of the crews future and let other suitably talented writers who know Joss's style fill in the blanks then this might be acceptable also.

I would do anything to see this show go on in a respectable fashion and this is really the only way I can see it happening. It would't be nearly as expensive as making a regular show so if enough fans expressed a desire to see it then I can't see why they wouldn't or couldn't give us what we want.

At the end of the day though it doesn't really matter. As long as religion is right and heaven exists then god has seasons one to seven boxed sets and when I die me and him are going to watch them together.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, February 7, 2009 3:57 PM

$?

The snag is that there isn't enough money for firefly. It should probably revert to text for the moment. Animated would work, but I don't want to see it as some South Park level of animation. It would have to kick ass. I think that's the point of Firefly, to kick ass. We'll leave the taking names part to the alliance :)

ADS

Saturday, February 7, 2009 4:26 PM

Yeah cash is the biggest issue(or only issue for that matter) but the cash could easily be there for an animated series if enough people got behind it.

There are allot of firefly fans, but maybe not enough to encourage a network to spend millions making a new show or movie. From what I know about how tv works, networks need a certain amout of viewers to keep advertisers happy so that the advertises will pay enough money so that the shows expenses are covered and the network makes a profit. Firefly fans tried there hardest to convince them that we can reach this qouta but we didn't pull it off.

But if every fan got behind an animated series it would be a different story. The expenses are suddenly much lower so the networks need less money from advertises to cover expenses. If the advertises don't have to pay as much then they are not expecting as many viewers for what they are paying for. And if they don't need as many viewers then maybe this number is closer to the amount of firefly fans that will be watching it if it is made animated.

Also a a secondary consideration, even if firefly's fans and desire for the show somehow multiplied like crazy overnight, getting the aging actors back together would be very difficult. Irrelivent if it's animated.

Of course it would have to kick ass! What I am proposing is that the show is as close to the original as possible, just animated. Think about what they could do also in terms of space combat or in regards to River kicking ass. You can do allot with animation and do it allot cheaper then if you had to pull it off normally.(EDIT: I thin you meant the animation quality, sorry :] Yeah south park style obviously would not be appropriate but at the same time it doesn't have to be awsome 3d animation either. As technology gets better it get's easier and easier to make cool animations and for a show as popular as firefly is then getting enough funding to make it cool shouldn't be to hard...........assuming the fans got behind such an idea.)

What matters to me more than the actors or the format is the story and the way it is told. Text can tell a story and do it well, I am an avid reader, but firefly was born in my mind and on the screen and watching the characters as they evolve(and kick ass) is important to me now. Regardless, text would only be alright to me if it came from Joss. There a many talented authors out there who do Firefly justice but unless you pick a favorite and decide his/hers is the version you are going to bank on and make that cannon then whats the point. I like my stories to have a definitive beggining, middle and end.

PARTICIPANT

Saturday, February 7, 2009 10:38 PM

Joss prefers Dollhouse, he's not really into Firefly anymore and gets a big boner for Eliza Dushuku

ADS

Sunday, February 8, 2009 11:30 AM

Yeah I can understand that, I get a boner from her too. Maybe we can just annoy him enough or something so he can sell off some ideas to someone who still does give a crap :)

SCHISM

Monday, February 9, 2009 4:36 AM

In the early 90's it seemed the fashion to take every half-decent popular comic series and turn it into an animated series.

They would kid-ify serious and mature themes, degrading them into an embarassing mass of animated nonsense.

I've seen too many good properties brutilized by animation, starting with TMNT. A humourous but grim and violent independant comic turned into an immature farce.

I'd rather see Firefly die than be turned into an animated show.

The only exception to the rule here is Batman TAS, circa 1992. The majority of the episodes in the first season or two somehow managed to appeal to children AND adults without losing any integrity.

Except for the episodes with Robin.

Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

ANONYMOUS1

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
They will never get the actors back together to make a show or movie again, lets face facts.

Facts.

Joss Whedon and the actors love Firefly/Serenity. See commentary on the Collector's Edition etc. And they love working together.

Joss and the actors want to do more Serenity. See various comments by them at conventions and in interviews.

The actors are not too old etc. See Summer in Terminator on Friday the 13th on Fox. 8/7 c

Nathan and Adam and most of the other actors have done animated film work.

Don't count Joss and the actors out. They are getting more and more popular every day.

The more people see of our Big Darn Heroes work (and that includes Joss) the more they want to see of our Big Darn Heroes work and that leads them back to Firefly/Serenity.

And don't worry about them being too busy. If Steven Speilberg, George Lucas and Harrison Ford can get together to make Indiana Jones whatever...so can Joss and the crew.

Look at what Joss did with Dr. Horrible. Funded it himself. Called up actors. Filmed it in a week. http://drhorrible.com

Have you read the Serenity comic books? I think they'd be pretty cool animated with the actors reading/acting the words.

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:04 AM

Why not an animated series? Just look at the bomb that was the Star Trek animated series just after the TOS got cancelled (even for its day). And that had fans, etc, etc, etc, behind it. Sorry, but just because it's "our" series doesn't make it any different. This is just a bad idea.

FF had a certain air to it. That's something that the comics certainly didn't convey and the movie barely came close to what FF was. In other words, lets just let the thing die in peace. Flogging a dead horse just to something is hardly the way to honour such a great show.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

ADS

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:17 AM

Okay fair enough, I could be wrong. I suppose that anything is possible and that there might be a chance that the show can start again with the actors, but every day that go's by this is becoming less and less likely. And allot of days have gone by.

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if the show got resurected normally. In fact, I would probably creme my pants. But I also gave up on hoping for this to happen a while ago because there just isn't enough to justify me getting my hopes up and believing it could still happen. It is just to painful. It might be possible, but I think it is more likely that fans could successfully push for an animated show as opposed to the normal one.

You might be right schism. It might stink badly. But wouldn't you like it if someone made it so you can decide that it stinks badly instead of judging it based on what might happen? You never know, it might be so kick ass that you change your mind.

I would hate for such a show to be made and then it sucks. Firefly deserves better than that. But at the same time I would love it if they made it and it was awsome. It is a gamble but not really a bad one. Worst case sceinario it sucks and I just don't watch it. Best case sceinario it rocks and I am as devouted to watching it as I was the original. Nothing that ever happens could ever damage the reputation of the original show anyway, it is just that good. And having that sort of attitude would be like if you didn't want the movie serenity being made just because it was not in episodic format and thus might not be as good as the show(which it wasn't but it was still good).

I will be forever gratefull that the movie serenity was made and at least gave the story some sort of closure but when it comes down to it I would much rather they have made a series exactly the same as Firefly, just animated. The main reason people I have talked to dont like this idea is because it doesnt use the original actors, but I don't understand it. I would even go as far as prefering animated over the movie even if it didn't use the same actors. I love the actors, they made the show awsome. But I love the dialog,story and the way it was told even more. I am a firefly fan, not a firefly groupie.

I only recently found out about the comic book but I havn't read them yet. They might be the last new firefly I ever get to expierience so I am going to save them. I would prefer to watch it on my tv, but I will take it whatever way I can get it.

SCHISM

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:39 PM

================
You might be right schism. It might stink badly. But wouldn't you like it if someone made it so you can decide that it stinks badly instead of judging it based on what might happen? You never know, it might be so kick ass that you change your mind.
===============

Respecting your opinion, I have to add that it might stink so badly that it gives Firefly/Serenity a bad name to the unenlightened, just as the TMNT made all Mirage-Comic-TMNT fans look childish and lame back in the day.

Then there will REALLY be no salvaging a show, if it becomes synonymous with a lame kids show, and being proud of one's fandom will by a little more synonymous with an adult saying they love Dora the Explorer for its "hidden depths".

TUJIAOZUO

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:56 PM

I doubt this makes a different as to how others view my post, but I'm an animation major. (2D, we're talkin old school)

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
Okay fair enough, I could be wrong. I suppose that anything is possible and that there might be a chance that the show can start again with the actors, but every day that go's by this is becoming less and less likely. And allot of days have gone by.

Agreed, we're at this point where the television series isn't likely unless it is more of a spinoff, focusing on one or a handful of the original cast. Live action wise, a movie is more likely. Everyone's pretty much moved on in terms of career. Yes, I'm sure the cast would love to jump right back into their roles and pick up where they left off, but a lot of them are already bound to shows or other projects that don't allow for a filming of Firefly Season 2.

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I would love it if the show got resurected normally. In fact, I would probably creme my pants.

There's about five of us in my all girls dorm that would not only creme our pants, but would spaz out, racing through the streets of San Francisco wearing knitted hats and taking turns dancing with a stuffed triceratops named Wash (Well his names Hoban but who wants to be called Hoban?).

Quote:
but when it comes down to it I would much rather they have made a series exactly the same as Firefly, just animated. The main reason people I have talked to dont like this idea is because it doesnt use the original actors, but I don't understand it. I would even go as far as prefering animated over the movie even if it didn't use the same actors. I love the actors, they made the show awsome. But I love the dialog,story and the way it was told even more. I am a firefly fan, not a firefly groupie.

This is where I feel Animation can be the correct medium for this franchise. The movie was was awesome stuff, but so much, so many little nuances in the characters and their story were left out due to the format of movies. And comics while great still can't quite capture the heart and soul of Firefly. As mentioned before, getting the cast all back together on TV would be probably impossible.

But there's a possibility that you could get everyone to voice act.

Voice acting would fit schedules more readily that normal filming for an hour long television show (filming I believe takes about a week for one episode). Filming takes sets, special effects, lighting, wardrobe, ect. Voice acting Nathan can come in to the soundbox in his pajamas and play Mal.

A lot of people are probably afraid the characters would just look like caricatures of the cast, that's not necessarily true. The cast would be referenced heavily for character design. Nathan and the gang could even be filmed one day for reference footage for the animators (A technique commonly used). Having them filmed in costume, acting out their character's mannerisms would aid the animator's ability to render the characters true to form, capturing nuances. The way Mal's coat goes back when he draws his gun, how River moves through a walk cycle, the way Kaylee gives that coy little smile, it could all be captured in footage and translated.

While it generally takes longer to animate an episode than film one live action (one month), animation has come a long way in terms of being able to be detailed and realistic. With a strong 2D style and the right CG effects applies we could see worlds and scenes that would have been impossible to see with a live action TV budget. The opulence of Sihnon, the English regale of Londinuim. Hover cars, enormous cities, blending of culture, everything could be a much grander scale, but with the same intimacy of the crew we're used to. Animation would just make the verse larger, with more possibilities in terms of settings and action (no stunt doubles).

Style is debatable. Obviously not paper cut Southpark or stop motion Robot Chicken, however I personally think a pseudo-anime 2D style would work with the premise of Firefly re

ADS

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:33 PM

Schism, I fully understand where you are coming from and you are right, what you are saying could happen. But I still wouldn't care for two main reasons. I don't really care about what non-browncoates think about the show and I am personally at the point now where if it is all or nothing then I would take the risk. In fact I would probably still be happy if it bombed and destroyed any possible chance at more episodes. At least then I will be able to stop torturing myself into thinking firefly will come back to me. I am big buffy and angel fan also and firefly was about a billion times better so if I got to see that story evolve like buffy's got the chance too then, well, nothing I could type here would adequitly explain how happy I would be(exept for maybe what ash wrote).

"There's about five of us in my all girls dorm that would not only creme our pants, but would spaz out, racing through the streets of San Francisco wearing knitted hats and taking turns dancing with a stuffed triceratops named Wash (Well his names Hoban but who wants to be called Hoban?)."

Lol. Heres a firefly fan after my own heart :)

Ash, you rule. In fact, you are exactly the type of fan I was hoping would stumble onto this thread. I don't need to comment on your reasoning. It is flawless and much more convincing then mine. I recently started a facebook cause/group to try and generate interest for this idea but I think you should go on and make one yourself. You can sell this concept better then I can so if you want to take the time to do it I will delete my group and join yours(I dont really have many members yet anyway). If you don't want to do this or don't want to use facebook I would like to ask if you please wouldn't mind letting me copy your post onto my group and maybe even helping me make a better group description then the one I came up with.

Let me know what you think. I don't know if this idea would ever take off but what I do know is that I had completely given up hope until the idea of it going animated was told to me. Now I at least think there is a chance again. However slim.

RALLEM

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 1:51 PM

I would like to see an animated series of firefly.

http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

BRIGLAD

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:02 PM

Put me in the "Yes" Column.

The lovely Ash said it best in her post above so I won't go repeating things.

Let's just say that if done well (like the early Batman/Dark Knight Animated series) It would make Me an ecstatic Browncoat.

If done poorly, I'll still be happy because... I'm a Browncoat.

Nuff' Said

Brian

SCHISM

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:12 PM

My only concession here would be if the animated series was specific to a sci-fi or other 'specialty' channel.

Otherwise it would be made to fit mainstream consumption (aka - kid-ified).

But if it was on a sci-fi channel or something similar, it would be made for an older audience.

Remember, mainstream North America don't yet embrace animation as anything but a medium for children.

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:19 PM

I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

SCHISM

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:45 PM

They could always have groups of animators split across several episodes at one time.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:08 PM

Quote:
Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

A Fox, of course.

In the words of Jayne...
"Saw that comin."

-F

RALLEM

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:12 PM

I'm not sure I would like a cute alien pet as a mascot.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

TUJIAOZUO

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

Seeing as I'm not there yet, I do know that alot of episodes are done far in advance before the premeire, that way by the time the first season ends they are well on their way animating the middle of the second season (Generally speaking most animated series have a guranteed run of three seasons, some that had a large audience can go on much longer, like the Simpsons, Spongebob, Family Guy, Fairly Oddparents ect. You might be bummed out about the three season median but hey, we didn't even get one full season, three's pretty damn shiny with a little over 20 eps a piece, with some awesome 2 hr TV movie wrapping everything up or leading into comics or something). A lot of stuff here in the states has the storyboarding, voice acting, reference footage and some key animation done here, and the in betweens and coloring is sent off to Korea to a secondary animation studio for cost cutting. There it's all put together, then sent back.

Schism I agree with the kidafying part. Firefly is in no way a show that could be easily boiled down for kids. (How the hell do you explain Inara without giving her a trite position or getting rid of her completely?)

Ads, I don't have a facebook, but you're welcome to use my post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I could only see this working on something like the SciFi channel or maybe Spike. It would need to be on cable and on a channel that it's devoted to children's programming. However, if it was animated well and targeted to adults then I would be onboard in a heartbeat.

I gotta say I don't really like hearing animation takes a month per episode though. 12 episodes a year? :-(

Seeing as I'm not there yet, I do know that alot of episodes are done far in advance before the premeire, that way by the time the first season ends they are well on their way animating the middle of the second season (Generally speaking most animated series have a guranteed run of three seasons, some that had a large audience can go on much longer, like the Simpsons, Spongebob, Family Guy, Fairly Oddparents ect. You might be bummed out about the three season median but hey, we didn't even get one full season, three's pretty damn shiny with a little over 20 eps a piece, with some awesome 2 hr TV movie wrapping everything up or leading into comics or something). A lot of stuff here in the states has the storyboarding, voice acting, reference footage and some key animation done here, and the in betweens and coloring is sent off to Korea to a secondary animation studio for cost cutting. There it's all put together, then sent back.

Schism I agree with the kidafying part. Firefly is in no way a show that could be easily boiled down for kids. (How the hell do you explain Inara without giving her a trite position or getting rid of her completely?)

Ads, I don't have a facebook, but you're welcome to use my post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Let's see...what cute and loveable alien 'mascot' would they create to humourously menace the crew?

A Fox, of course.

In the words of Jayne...
"Saw that comin."

-F

I gave River a cat for her familiar, it works pretty well.

Then again.. there is Shan-shan, Inara's pet tiger witht the
ironical disposition of a retriever...

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

TUJIAOZUO

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 9:01 PM

Weird double post.

ANONYMOUS1

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
I only recently found out about the comic book but I havn't read them yet. They might be the last new firefly I ever get to expierience so I am going to save them.

You do know Joss is planning to do one about Book's past.

Might have a hard time finding the original comic book Serenity: Those Left Behind. 3-issue 9 collectible covers.

The graphic novels are always available.
Serenity: Those Left Behind the Graphic Novel

Serenity: Better Days Comic Books (2008)
Issue 1 of 3.

Serenity: Better Days Graphic Novel

Serenity/Firefly comic Serenity: The Other Half Online Free!
http://www.myspace.com/darkhorsepresents?issuenum=13&storynum=1

ADS

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:05 PM

Thanks heaps Ash. I am going to discect your post and turn it into the new group description. You will of course be given credit.

Quote:
You do know Joss is planning to do one about Book's past.

Might have a hard time finding the original comic book Serenity: Those Left Behind. 3-issue 9 collectible covers.

Yeah I did see something about books past getting revealed. I probably wont wait to read that one. I always wanted to know what the deal with him was.

Not too worried if I can't find all the comics on firefly in the shops. Those I don't the internet should provide.

I would like to ask also. I havn't even looked into the comics. Are they written by Joss or any of the other original writers of the show?

SCHISM

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:15 PM

Written by Joss Whedon and Brett Mathews.
Official cannon.
They're quite good - just finished them.
'Those Left Behind' takes place between the end of the series and the start of the movie. It's good, but waaay too short.
'Better Days' is longer and better IMHO, however I'm not sure where in the continuity it takes place.

ADS

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 12:47 PM

Sweet, look forward to reading them. Probably won't be for a looooong time though. I havn't actually re-watched an episode since the movie came out and don't plan to for at least ten years, maybe longer. I want to forget as much as possible so that when I do watch them again I can enjoy them even more. And I will then top it off by reading, watching or listening to anything new that has been created in that time.

There will be a few exceptions though. Get diagnosed with a terminal illness, time to watch firefly to make me feel better. Show gets ressurected, time to watch firefly and get pshyched up for new episodes. That sort of thing :)

RIPWASH

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:39 PM

I gotta say . . . an animated series would be sweet. But I'd have my reservations. Some of what I love about Firefly is the interaction of the crew and that can only be done if they're all there in the same room at the same time. Voice acting is most often done with each actor separately and the "give and take" just isn't there when you're used to certain people playing off each other in a certain way. One of the other things I love about the show is Mal's reactions and facial expressions. I just think that would be extremely hard to mimic in animation. I completely agree that it should NOT be kiddified in any way, shape or form. The mascot thing reminds me too much of Slimer on the animated Ghostbusters.

I'm a new fan of the show and new to the site. I'm trying my darndest to tell people I know about it, too. I watched the series and the movie in the span of a week and was extremely saddened when the movie ended. Heck, not only did my favorite character die ("I'm a leaf on the wind"), but just knowing there would be no more. I was hoping the box office was solid, but it wasn't. Great reviews on Rotten Tomatoes, though. Very solid. I'm hoping that Nathan Fillion gets real popular and he can help rally Firefly back to life :o)

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

ADS

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
I gotta say . . . an animated series would be sweet. But I'd have my reservations. Some of what I love about Firefly is the interaction of the crew and that can only be done if they're all there in the same room at the same time. Voice acting is most often done with each actor separately and the "give and take" just isn't there when you're used to certain people playing off each other in a certain way. One of the other things I love about the show is Mal's reactions and facial expressions. I just think that would be extremely hard to mimic in animation.

I would like to ask you something if you don't mind. I swear I am not trying to be confrontational or disrespect your opinion. I really just want try and better understand any reservations the fans have and what would be the best way to try and help them to overlook it.

I agree with what you wrote about the quality in which the characters express themselves. And for the sake of argument lets say that the animated characters don't express themselves anywhere near as much as their real life counterparts. Is this something you would be able to overlook if it meant the show would continue?

You clearly like the show and I feel for you. I was sad when I realised there would be no more episodes or movies too. And I am glad to hear you think animation would be sweet. But why even though you are sad and would like more firefly do you even mention the negative aspects of animation instead of just going, What? More firefly you say. Count me in!

Again, you would really be helping me out to let me in on your thinking.

This idea makes perfect sense to me and although I can understand why some fans would be hesitant I am really baffled as to why it doesn't have instant support from everyone who is at least as in love with the story and dialog as I am. I am a big firefly fan but I am far from the biggest. There are even people on facebook who like the idea of an animated show but don't join a cause dedicated to making this idea a reality.

If I was River it would be alright because I would just read everyones mind and use my super big brain to work out a way to convince everyone to get behind this. Since I only have a regular sized brain though I have to do this the hard way.

RIPWASH

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:50 PM

I'll try to explain adequately, so bear with me.

It would be my assumption that fans of the show fell in love with it for many reasons, not the least of which is the way it all came together and presented itself overall. Any deviation from that would have to "prove" itself to the fans first and foremost. We like Mal Reynolds because of the manner in which Nathan Fillion portrayed him. The same goes for the rest of the cast. We like the chemistry between Mal and Zoe, Zoe and Wash, Inara and Mal and any other combination. We liked the look and the feel of the series and movie.

Now take into account that any deviation from that fromat and you could get something mediocre or downright disasterous at worst. The series would have to "prove" itself as being a viable option for those yearning for more of the 'Verse. Different actors would add their spin to a character or you'd have someone pretending to be Nathan Fillion as Mal Reynolds and it would just be an imitation, not the real deal. Does that make sense?

Getting all the actors on board to do the voice work? That's a different story. But as I said . . . put 'em in the same room so they can play off each other and have that chemistry shine through the vocal performances.

Then the animation would have to be right. I mean there are a lot of different styles of animation and if it didn't look right or have the right feel then I may not watch it.

So in short . . . would I like to see an animated series? Absolutely!
Would I like to see an animated series that was poorly done? No. And that's why I say I'd have my reservations and would want to see what was being done first.

I would fight for an animated show, but I'd also fight for it to be done correctly.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Why not an animated series? Just look at the bomb that was the Star Trek animated series just after the TOS got cancelled (even for its day). And that had fans, etc, etc, etc, behind it. Sorry, but just because it's "our" series doesn't make it any different. This is just a bad idea.

That's some seriously faulty logic. The animated Trek was bad, 'cause it was a bad show. This does not mean that everything animated will be bad.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:41 PM

Why are we assuming again that any Firefly cartoon spin-off would automatically have to have the maturity level toned down? I missed that explanation somewhere.

I mean, heck, I'm pretty sure networks handle cartoon nudity a hell of a lot better than live action stuff. If Trash had run on Fox, you can bet there would have been censor fuzzing all over the place. Cartoon backside? Not so much.

And besides, the "cartoons are for kids mentality" died in the 1990s. Adult Swim, all the anime imports... Lead to a resurgence of cartoons marketed to teenagers and older even on the big networks.

ADS

Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:21 AM

Good response RIPWASH, thanks. Your post makes absolute sense and I would go as far too say that you have assumed correctly and these are the main reasons why allot of fans would find it difficult to even consider discussing an animated approach. I also agree that it would help if an animated show could prove itself as a viable option. Unfortunatly, unless the fans get behind the idea of such an option first then no network would even consider making some animated material to put our reservations at ease. But that brings me to your last line.

Quote:

I would fight for an animated show, but I'd also fight for it to be done correctly.

Agreed 1000%. In my opinion I can't see any other option that would possibly bring back more firefly episodes so I would fight tooth and nail to bring an animated version of the show about. But I wouldn't JUST fight for an animated version. I am not proposing that fans just blindly get behind the idea of animation. I am proposing that they voice their support of an animated show as well as voicing the terms under which they would like to see such a show. If this idea generated enough support then anyone who actually considered giving us what we want would also have to take into account how we want it to be given to us, or else what would be the point of them making it.

Sure, there are still no guarantee's that they would make it perfect. But I can give you one guarantee. If we do nothing, then we will get nothing. But, if we do something, well we might get something.

I don't think the right thing to say is something is better than nothing.

But what I would say is no risk, no reward. Possibly no BIG reward.

ADS

Thursday, February 12, 2009 4:59 PM

I wanted to ask also.

If any of you guys have facebook and would like to lend a hand plugging this concept on the sites fan group discussion boards then you would be doing this cause a big favor.

Also, even though the group is too small at the moment to need admins I wouldn't mind adding some now anyway as long as they are willing to put the effort in and try and help get some interest in this idea.

Let me know if anyone is interested.

ADS

Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:56 AM

Alrighty I have just learned some interesting information that I thought was worth mentioning. On the Facebook page supporting this idea a person who is currently directing/producing sci fi animation wrote an interesting message. Aparently firefly going animated has already been proposed by their animation company a few years back. They say they could have also secured financial backing for this idea but it never happened because there was such a negative reaction from the fans that it scared away investors.

I have already expressed my love for the story of firefly and it's characters and the reasons why I personally would be happy with animation if it kept that story going. I am a little upset that this hasn't happened earlier but I don't really blame the fans. A few years ago there was probably still some legitimate hope that firefly could be resurected the way it should have been. Now however this is not as likely.

GB Hajim wrote this on the groups wall.

"I'll tell you all what: For every 10,000 fans you get on board that are committed to an animated series, I'll get my company to do animation mock ups of each of the characters. You all can choose which ones through a poll or however you like. I've put some characters in the Photo gallery here so you can see the quality of animation we are doing."

This group hasn't even been on facebook for a week and already there is a company willing to again spend time and money on firefly animation if fans are interested.

Imagine what would happen if every firefly fan in the world just said, stuff it! And got behind this idea.

Ash's reasoning was the best on this discussion. But what Brain said however,

Quote:
Put me in the "Yes" Column.

The lovely Ash said it best in her post above so I won't go repeating things.

Let's just say that if done well (like the early Batman/Dark Knight Animated series) It would make Me an ecstatic Browncoat.

If done poorly, I'll still be happy because... I'm a Browncoat.

Nuff' Said

Brian

This is all the reasoning I think should be needed.

Ultimatly though, Rallem is a model of exactly what every firefly fan would at least have to do to make this dream into a reality. And I bet it didn't even take one minute.

Quote:
I would like to see an animated series of firefly.

If you have facebook and want to see more firefly then the groups name is; Firefly, The Animated Series. If you can accept animation then just joining the group shows your support. But if you join the group and also use facebook to 'voice' your support then it will show you mean it and then the world will really take us seriously.

If you don't like the idea then you would be doing the rest of us browncoats who do want to see more firefly a big favor by not fighting it. Besides, if someone did make it you know you would at least check it out

Peace, Adam.

SCHISM

Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Why are we assuming again that any Firefly cartoon spin-off would automatically have to have the maturity level toned down? I missed that explanation somewhere.

I mean, heck, I'm pretty sure networks handle cartoon nudity a hell of a lot better than live action stuff. If Trash had run on Fox, you can bet there would have been censor fuzzing all over the place. Cartoon backside? Not so much.

And besides, the "cartoons are for kids mentality" died in the 1990s. Adult Swim, all the anime imports... Lead to a resurgence of cartoons marketed to teenagers and older even on the big networks.

You're right.
That is true.
It IS a different world out there.
But I've seen so many good properties destroyed utterly back in my day that I just can't shake my wariness and mistrust.

*spoken like a browncoat*

MAKINGVISIBLE

Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:43 PM

I'm digging the "Star Wars Clone Wars" new animated series. A sleek, stylized show - yet with realistic backdrops - would work very well for Firefly. And I agree that the tone and writing could remain just as adult as the live-action version.

ADS

Monday, February 16, 2009 1:20 AM

By the way. When I asked fellow browncoats not to fight against this idea I didn't mean don't make your concerns heard. We all have a right to voice our opinion and I respect everybodies.

I should clarify and ask that you please voice your opinions in a constructive manner. Same go's for people who are for this idea too.

I met one person on facebook who ignored my posts, TOLD me what my motives where, made out like they where speaking for everyone and what they want and then TOLD me not to push for this to happen and that I should just re-watch the original episodes like everyone else instead of hoping that one day I might be able to see new ones.

The only thing I took from her messages was that some fans hate animation as much as they love firefly and that they think everybody else should believe like they do.

If you want to come to the group and voice you objections for this idea then please do. We will respect your opinions if you respect ours.

ADS

Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:33 PM

If you are not confident in animation and are worried that it won't do firefly justice then you are the fans we need the most supporting this idea. Without you there will not be total support and if it was made it will not be with as big a budget. Also, more importantly, we need you to ensure that whoever would take on this project does it properly. There is nothing like hundreds of thousands of die hard fans telling you how it should be done to make you know how to do something right.

A fan prompted me to do some reaserch into the Buffy animated series that never took off. Joss was more than happy to work in animation back then and not only was he eager to do so, but he was also prepared to put in the effort to make sure his work was done to his usual high standards. Apparently the only reason that it never took off was because it was considered too adult for childrens TV and animation was not quite suitable for the mainstream prime time slots. Nowadays however there are allot more options with various cable channels catoring to almost all styles and tastes. Translation, if he made firefly animation he would still make it for the adult fans and nowadays if an adult sci fi animated like cowboy bebop can find a home then firefly can also.

Optamisticly, it would likely get picked up by a netwrork willing to give Joss more creative control then the morons at other networks. If you thought fireflys dialog and story was good with the networks dumbing it down for mainstream zombies then imagine what it would be like unfiltered straight from Joss Whedon's mind himself. If thats not a fantasy worth fighting for then I don't know what is.

If you don't use facebook but can see the chance we have here and want to help us make it a reality then there is certainly still something you can do. Fans got Serenity without the use of facebook. I don't have the knowledge or resources to make web pages or petitions but other fans do. Anyone can go to forums anywhere and discuss this idea to try and get people behind it. The more people talking about it the more chance this could actually work.

For those who do have facebook then here is the link; http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61221961583

If you join then leaving a message of support on the wall is a great way to show your commitment. If you have concerns then voicing them in the message boards is a constructive way to ensure that this would only be done if it is going to be done right.

We don't have to give up just yet.

If you can't walk, you crawl.

ADS

Monday, March 2, 2009 1:03 PM

A quote from GB Hajim from Island Planet One Productions

"If we (fans) can prove that 30% of the fan base would be into an animated series, we (my company) could easily get the show to fly."

30%! Thats a cake walk. I wonder what would happen if 80% of the fans got behind it. Probably they would then be begging us to let them make an animated show catoring exactly to our excellent taste and high standards.

RIVER6213

Monday, March 2, 2009 4:04 PM

An animated Firefly show would in time undermine, and then ruin the idea of the original Firefly.

-River

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 2, 2009 4:12 PM

Disagreed. The comic books have already shown that Firefly doesn't need to be live action to still be engaging. And comic books are one step away from cartoons anyways.

RIVER6213

Monday, March 2, 2009 4:24 PM

I find the comic books rather unappealing.

-River

SCHISM

Monday, March 2, 2009 5:04 PM

I agree with River.

I was a bit let down by the comics.

I used to be a huge comics geek in the early to mid 90's (Batman and X-Men), but I sell my former self out by saying that the FF/Serenity comics are not good mediums.

The comic is a very visual medium. FF is a very visual show, but the visuals are only secondary to good writing and great characters. I found those two traits lacking in the comics. Moreso in 'Those Left Behind', but also in 'Better Days'.

If they focused on less dynamic art and more story-oriented dialogue, I'd be happy.

I mean, did you see that image where the Shepherd suddenly grew 12 inch pythons and slugged the captain? Yeah, in the show, in a slightly more realistic 'environment', that would not have been so.......dynamic.

This does not make me anti-FF/Serenity comics.
I would just like to see that storyteller's approach. Ever read the Watchmen, or 'V for Vendetta'? Yeah, the artwork kinda sucks (moreso in V), and it doesn't employ anything more than the repetitive succession of small rectagular comic frames, but by god they are some good stories.

Ultimately, if anything, I'd like to see official cannonized novels, perhaps with a few artist's renderings of key scenes thrown in.

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 2, 2009 5:07 PM

Hmm. I liked them. Had the same kind of bantering humour that the series had and Better Days at least presented a new adventure with at least a decent premise. (It was very interesting to see the plans the crew made for their individual shares of the money. Those Left Behind, admittedly, was intended to just be backstory and filler space)

There are some character development plots that made me a little wary, but I have faith enough that later arcs will resolve them in a way that will remove the uneasiness.

It could be that a drowning person will grasp at any lifeline tossed to them, but there were honestly parts of the comics I enjoyed, so I don't think that's what my reaction was.

So that's my logic. If I can like the comic books, I would probably like a cartoon with the same tone and feel.

The look would have to be different, of course, because you don't often render cartoons to look straight out of a comic book. Though, in the comic books sometimes the characters were drawn with only a passing resemblance to the actors (especially in Those Left Behind, I feel like the artist got a better handle on what they look like in Better Days), so that may not be a bad thing.

SCHISM

Monday, March 2, 2009 11:21 PM

I really did love the story of 'Better Days', don't get me wrong.
It would have been great to see it as an actual episode.

I still stand by my point, however.
There's a certain something that the series had that can't be brought back in comic form, or animated form.

Personally I'd rather lose something than see it done badly.

Besides, with novelizations you can get a level of character insight that you can't in comics, or even a tv show.

I am no big fan of that Steven Brurst novel "My Own Freedom" (or whatever it was called). It felt contrived, and his writing style was rather childish. HOWEVER there are two parts of it that I really did appreciate - insights into River's way of thinking, as well as Wash's own take on his piloting abilities. I really enjoyed those brief moments.

TUJIAOZUO

Monday, March 2, 2009 11:23 PM

The comics are sort of a hit or miss in terms of being an example on how Firefly would translate well into a different medium. For starters, I'm not a huge fan of Those Left Behind. It's sort of like the people who worked on it really had to find their footing in translating Firefly into comic form. And while Better Days was a definite improvement and I loved a lot of things about it, certain parts are lacking. Particularly in the rendering of the BDHs, but then again I'm just not to entirely fond of the artist's style.

I think a better example of how a mature, whitty, high caliber animated show or movie would do the franchise justice would be to check out the Wonder Woman DVD that comes out tomorrow. I've pimped it a few times on this site but it's worthy of the praise. I was able to see the west coast premiere at Wondercon this last weekend and I (and a few hundred other people) was blown away at how great was. It's a pg-13 animated movie, and while some of the origins story was re-imagined and it's a broad audience it's not dumbed down or kiddified by any means. The animation is streamlined and the designs are simplified, but it's powerful work. Plus, you hear Nathan as Steve Trevor so you can get a feel for some BDH voice acting.

And there are people who don't care for comics books, or animation and just want to see the cast again on TV. Which trust me, if there was any indication the show could be resurrected just like that, this thread wouldn't be here because we'd all be celebrating, crossing our fingers, praying to the dear fluffy lord about it. We're just here to throw around ideas, concepts and opinions because it has the potential to be a viable medium. Animation has come a long way from steam boat willy, and adult geared animation is becoming widely embraced (i do believe both Fox and ABC have new animated shows on their lineups). I'm all for an animated show as long as it's properly handled (leaning more towards 2-d, but that's just me) and it has Joss' blessing as well as the gang on board.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 12:04 AM

You know, since you bring up character insight...

An aspect of other comic books that I haven't seen in the Serenity comics is the yellow rectangular internal monologue box. You know, that helps with the scene transitions, or depicts the characters thoughts in a more narrative manner than the usual thought bubble?

I'm thinking with A Shepherd's Tale, being that it's probably going to be from Book's POV mostly, we might actually get some of that. Which would be nice, it's true.

Comic books and books in general can do that, where a tv show/ cartoon couldn't.

But, of course, if we liked Firefly the TV series, we weren't missing the narrative/internal monologue that much. And I think it's not that a tvshow (animated or not) can't represent what characters are thinking, they just have to do things more visually. Remember that walk River takes through Serenity and we take through her head in Objects in Space? That was very fine cinematography. And that could be done in cartoons and in comic books... If we got artists and writers who could visuallize something like that. :)

ANONYMOUS1

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 3:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:
I think a better example of how a mature, whitty, high caliber animated show or movie would do the franchise justice would be to check out the Wonder Woman DVD that comes out tomorrow. I've pimped it a few times on this site but it's worthy of the praise. I was able to see the west coast premiere at Wondercon this last weekend and I (and a few hundred other people) was blown away at how great was. It's a pg-13 animated movie, and while some of the origins story was re-imagined and it's a broad audience it's not dumbed down or kiddified by any means. The animation is streamlined and the designs are simplified, but it's powerful work. Plus, you hear Nathan as Steve Trevor so you can get a feel for some BDH voice acting.

I'll be picking this up tomorrow.

Nathan Fillion - Col. Steve Trevor (voice)

http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-Two-Disc-Special-Digital/dp/B001LK8
SQ6/

http://www.amazon.com/Wonder-Woman-2009-Keri-Russell/dp/B001LK8SKW/

ANONYMOUS1

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 3:21 AM

Ads,

Any company that wants to do Dr. Horrible Animation, Firefly Animation or Buffy Season 8 Animation or Angel Season 6 Animation, should get in touch with Joss Whedon's Talent Agent ( http://pro.imdb.com )
or Dark Horse Comics for Dr. Horrible, Serenity and Buffy and IDW for Angel.

Joss has already talked about doing things through subscription/donation/budgeting based on pre-sales. Propose to Joss to animate what is already written with the real actors and build from there.

Read Joss's interviews. Joss is planning/working on something. Whatever that is can be supplemented with animation.

Get in the door before Joss has someone shop for companies. Keep in mind, Joss has very high standards and also wants as much control of his babies as he can have. He had total control over Dr. Horrible. I think he liked that alot. Nothing quite like working for yourself.

ADS

Tuesday, March 3, 2009 9:06 AM

Anonymous1,

The whole professional behind the scenes side of things isn't really my area. I am just doing my bit for us fans and hoping that we all get behind this so someone will consider giving us what we want. Whatever they have to do to make it a reality.

GB is very professional and also knows what he is talking about though so if you come onto facebook he might be the one to pose those sort of questions too. I dont think it really matters though. With heaps of fan support GB is likely just one of the companies that will be considered to make the show for us.

He is likely just showing interest early because he is also a fan and wants there to be more firefly episodes as much as we do. A good quality to have in a person making new Firefly episodes if you ask me. His industry expierience and knowledge is evident and he is basically just giving us all a guidline as to what is required of us to make this show a reality.

GB's latest post on facebook.

"If we can get 50,000 dedicated Firefly animation fans together by this summer, I am confident we could see the show by Fall 2010. If we can't hit those kind of numbers, then the "live action or nothing" crowd wins."

There are over 120,000 fans on the main Firefly facebook fan page and thats not even all of the Firefly fans on facebook. Not to mention that the true number of Firefly fans in the world is much greater still. Watching Mal tackle the Blue Sun Corp or laughing my ass off at Jayne again is so close I can almost taste it.

It is good that we can all come here and discuss this but now that this idea actually has a clear target and is being presented to us as a very realistic option to getting more Firefly episodes I am compelled to try a couple more ways to try and get my feelings across.

One is to ask you to forget everything you know or are worried about and think back. Think back to the first time you heard the hero of canton song and saw Wash's reaction to it. Can you honestly tell me any show since has made you laugh as hard as that. I would give anything to expierience entertainment like that again.

Or think about how much potential the story had and how interested you where back then to watch it unfold. The Blue sun and its mysteries. The alliance and the possibility of Mal and the crew having a part in taking them down. The hands of blue guys and watching Mal take them on. The new 'verse characters that would have been introduced and who would no doubt have been as interesting as all the other chartacters. The romance that probably would have developed between Mal and Inara and the complications that would have followed. The relationship between Simon and Kaylee and the funny complications that would have followed that also. All of this and so much more can and WILL be done in an animated show if we all get behind it.

Another way to express how I feel is this,

*Gets on his knees*

Please my fellow Browncoats I am begging you to give Firefly animation a chance and get behind it 100%. We all just want to see more quality episodes of Firefly and that dream is a very possible reality. I know that if we all get behind it they will make it well. We won't let them make it unless Joss is on board and Joss won't let it be crapola. We all know thats not his style.

Sorry, I just want to see more quality Firefly episodes so badly that my dignity is the least of the things I would give up if it helps this come to be.

ANONYMOUS1

Wednesday, March 4, 2009 3:23 AM

Ads,

When I was picking up Wonder Woman, I noticed a Watchman DVD...which I thought was odd cause the movie is in theaters this weekend. So it was a DVD of the Watchman graphic novel in motion comic. So that is another type of animation that is being done. Somewhere between comic book and animated I guess.

ADS

Thursday, March 5, 2009 8:58 AM

Thats pretty interesting. Maybe they could do something like that for Firefly too. Complete episodes would be better but maybe they could use something like that to warm the fans up to the idea of Firefly being saved as a fully animated show.

I am sure plenty of fans have read the comics so I am sure that those same fans would appreciate a pimped out version of the comic books too.

Also GB recently made a very good point. It is going to be tough to get live action Firefly ever again. But what do you think would be a good way to get it?

Making a succesful animated show and building our already large fan base even more couldn't hurt. In fact if you really think about it, supporting Firefly animation is probably the BEST way to get more live action stuff also.

ASARIAN

Thursday, March 5, 2009 6:42 PM

Animated Firefly, eh? Hmmm. Why, for one, it better not be Pokemon-type, low-res quality. But something between, say, Wall-E (which is more rendered, really) and Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within sure would be nice. Or would it? With something as precious as Firefly, you really, really want more; but you also really, really don't wanna see it get screwed up by something new. Joss poured his very soul into that show. For an animated version of the show I'd 'expect' at least the same high standards in dialog and such. Not that I'm really in a position to demand, or even ask, anything of Joss. But I'm just sayin' that chances for this to be 'less than' are rather real, unless Joss really gets behind it. In that case, of course, I would be behind it -- cautiously.

I'd like the original BDH cast for voices, too. And, speaking of voice-actors, let's throw in a female Commander somewhere (of an Alliance Cruiser or some such), and have her voice-acted by Jennifer Hale; cuz, darn it, that woman has the sexiest voice in the 'Verse. :) Seriously, though, it could all work, but would have to be done with much class.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

SIMONWHO

Friday, March 6, 2009 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Animated Firefly, eh? Hmmm. Why, for one, it better not be Pokemon-type, low-res quality. But something between, say, Wall-E (which is more rendered, really) and Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within sure would be nice.

Wall-E cost around $180m to make. Final Fantasy about $135m back in 2001.

I don't see why FOX would go for an animated series but there's no reason why fans couldn't have a crack at it themselves. Doctor Who fans have produced some interesting animated versions, from reconstructions of lost episodes:

Re-stylised as an anime:

And CGI:

What do people think about something along those lines?

VEGETA13613

Friday, March 6, 2009 1:41 AM

I think I would prefer something like a weekly or bi-weekly hour-long radio drama with the original cast over a traditional cartoon. Something like a weekly CGI show would probably be too expensive to be viable. Maybe they could put the radio drama up on iTunes for a few bucks? The Doctor Who radio drama supposedly did very well after the original series was canceled, or so I've heard.

-Erik

SCHISM

Friday, March 6, 2009 2:07 AM

Radio drama.

Interesting.

Oh, and THIS is why I'm against a Firefly cartoon.

Watch this and maybe you'll understand my fears;

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/485797

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 6, 2009 2:53 AM

To be fair, I think that short is intended to be parody, and not a serious translation of the Watchmen.

...Point taken, however.

I'm pretty sure browncoats wouldn't allow our firefly cartoon to be like that, though.

SCHISM

Friday, March 6, 2009 3:32 AM

A parody, yes, but it's not far off from what they did to many a reputable comic-based property in the early 90's.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
----------------------------
From this;

To this;

WildCATS
--------
From this;

To this;

X-Men
-----
From this;

To this;

And for good measure, read this;
http://www.cracked.com/article_15287_10-most-disastrous-saturday-morni
ng-cartoon-adaptations.html

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 6, 2009 3:52 AM

Well that's part of the problem! You're thinking of saturday morning cartoons. Those are marketed for kids.

We're talking a prime-time cartoon on either the internet or some channel like HBO or something.

ADS

Friday, March 6, 2009 5:35 AM

GB has an animated sci-fi quadrilogy of feature films coming out soon called 'Strange Frame. The quality of animation is very good and is also serious. It is much better than what any of the fans will ever be able to make. The story also is for adults and it is as far from mainstream as you can get.

This is GB's response to some of the concerns from here that I have mailed to him,

Quote:
"I can assure you that if I'm involved it won't be made for kids or made to fit into mainstream consumption. After all, strange frame is an animated sci-fi musical starring two lesbians of color. Strange Frame has drugs, sex and a little smattering of violence. What can be further from the mainstream than that?"

He is also very sure that Firefly animation would take off with adequite fan support and he wouldn't do it without Joss's support either(also his own words).

He knows the expenses required to make live action and the comparitive costs(which are much less) of making the show animated.

He says that a slot on sci fi at a suitable time made with animation would need a fraction of the fans that would be required to make live action happen.

He also told me that most of Fireflys cast has done voice work before and he is also confident that getting at least most of the actors on board is possible.

FIDDLER

Friday, March 6, 2009 6:18 AM

Yes Thank you! I'm glad someone finally mentioned HBO. An hour long animated show fitting the criteria set up by Ash, though a more mature and gritty animation style, and a seamless blend of animation and cgi (think appleseed, the blend not the animation style). I see it lorded over (and often written) by Joss to maintain its integrity voiced by the actors, and aired on either HBO or Showtime. 12 episode seasons and they can take up to a year. The truth is the franchise has been crippled. Animation can serve a couple of purposes:

1. Extend the franchise for a few years till the time is better suited for the show to return in some form as we know it. Or at least for a movie.

2. Spark a new live action treatment in the future with a different cast and a revamped story that if done right could potentially be better than its current iteration.

3. Vindicate us Browncoats who have believed from the start.

4. Create a new generation of Browncoats that can see the franchise through their goggles and not just ours.

My only problem with a future re imagining is that a lot of what we are as Browncoats has to do with our scifi outcast status. We all quite literally united into this brilliant subculture not when the show was created but when it was canceled. As fans we literally experienced our own Battle of Serenity valley, and I don't know if a future generation could ever feel the way we do if they grow up in a situation where Firefly was always the in thing. Kind of like the Trekkies and now the BSG fans. Their spirit began with the original canceled show but the newer fans (TNG and on) are almost a different species. They are more mainstream, less fanatical, almost more savvy, and not nearly as unified. I mean look at them, they outnumber us by orders of magnitude, but we trounce them every time we cross them as fans. They have never known a Star Trek with its back against the wall. So they haven't bonded in the foxhole. Where as I was in Tucson Arizona a few months back and didn't have a place to stay because I couldn't pay, my wallet had been stolen. I was going to sleep in my car, but when in conversation I let slip that I was a Browncoat this kind lady living on her own offered me her couch for the night. A total stranger. I could have been some psycho rapist killer, but all she needed to know about me was that I'm a Browncoat, and that makes me family, or a veteran of the same battle. I of course thanked her and warned her sternly the next morning never to do that again, it's just not safe, and I certainly hope all Browncoats are not that naive. But I am eternally grateful to her for making the right call there.

Anyway I would prefer a future with some iteration of Firefly as a going concern, rather than a future with Firefly as a quaint and curious memory.

"Am I talking to Miranda now?"

FIDDLER

Friday, March 6, 2009 6:25 AM

@ADS

That's really great! I'm behind it 100%.

I wonder why Joss doesn't coordinate graphic novels and paperback novels like Star wars and Star Trek do. Their publishing activities are worth a few hundred million, and helped the material reach a niche audience that is a large geek (no offense) sympathetic group but isn't necessarily up on tv and movies. These people then peer and spread at the very least out of curiosity for the other media. We do a lot to keep this franchise alive but it seems to me that there is a lot that Joss et al can do to keep it a going concern and squeeze revenue out of in order to fund other projects. Expand this core of rabid fans and lay the groundwork for the 'verse at least if not the crew of serenity.

"Am I talking to Miranda now?"

ADS

Friday, March 6, 2009 9:16 AM

You make great points Fiddler and you should deffinatly come onto Facbook if you can to join the fight there also. I thought I would add one more point to your posts here too.

Maybe they will make it and it rules but they still shit can it after half a season again anyway and we just add a new generation of fanatical Firefly fans to the ranks who are just as united as we are.

*Fingers crossed that it doesn't happen that way. I dont think I could go through that much pain a second time around.*

ADS

Friday, March 6, 2009 1:45 PM

I think you are also right and it is also worth discussing alternative 'verse stories in any type of format.

For an animated episodes I would really like to see Firefly continue just because it is a realistic option to making sure crew and their stories get told because there is still SO much more life in it.

If an animated show took of however we could also one day see a spinoff ala Angel(even a live action one). I loved Buffy and I loved Angel so it stands to reason that if Firefly had a sister show I would love them both too. Man you are going to give me wet dreams now Fiddler making me think about two shows as good as Firefly on tv at the same time.

More graphic novels or even real novels done well and made cannon about alternative aspects or characters of the 'verse would be awsome as well and if we can get the fan base even bigger I cant see why it wouldnt happen. Star wars has plenty of novels.

There is still so much you can do with the 'verse it could go on for ever. Especially if we can keep significantly growing the fanbase.

Imagine this Firefly spin off.

Jayne one day gets his own ship, his own crew and his own show.

LOL Maybe its not the best idea but at the same time........... maybe its the best idea ever

STORYMARK

Friday, March 6, 2009 4:57 PM

While I'd love to see a Firefly animated show, I doubt the market is really there for it. Animation aimed at adults is still a niche within a niche, and to be made in a way that we'd like, it would probably be too expensive.

Besides, if Joss couldn't get a Buffy cartoon running at the height of it's popularity, the odds of a Firefly one getting a shot are slim to none.

Oh, and the X-Men animated series was pretty cool, saturday-morning based or not (though I did get a prime-time run for a while, paired with Batman:TAS).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Friday, March 6, 2009 5:04 PM

Whoa so you actually have an animation studio interested in this project? You might want to start a new thread with a more catchy title. I was just bored and thought I'd check in on this discussion. I didn't for a second think things were progressing this quickly. I doubt enough people are reading this.

I'm sure if this got spread around the different Firefly communities we could get enough people. Heck if we could get something on digg I bet all the closet Firefly fans, who don't constantly skim Firefly message boards, would show their support.

FIDDLER

Friday, March 6, 2009 9:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
While I'd love to see a Firefly animated show, I doubt the market is really there for it. Animation aimed at adults is still a niche within a niche,

Aren't we a Niche. We are a large enough population to make it wildly profitable, and there is an untapped subset that would be acquired. After all we've done, believe it or not, firefly is still not very well known. We grow daily.

The time wasn't right for Buffy, probably never will be. Buffy told the fullness of its story for the most part. There isn't this sense of not getting a chance, a very tiny minority were behind it, and there really wasn't much left to say in it.

There are many indie and even major groups that would be willing if it was really wanted, and the only major snafus are contractual issues between Fox, Universal, and Whedon.

anyway, these are just ideas to try and keep it alive.

"Am I talking to Miranda now?"

STORYMARK

Friday, March 6, 2009 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fiddler:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
While I'd love to see a Firefly animated show, I doubt the market is really there for it. Animation aimed at adults is still a niche within a niche,

Aren't we a Niche. We are a large enough population to make it wildly profitable, and there is an untapped subset that would be acquired. After all we've done, believe it or not, firefly is still not very well known. We grow daily.

Yes, we are a niche. And just this thread shows that there are some browncoats who are not interested in animation. And given that there really has never been any western animated drama that appealed to a large adult audience, it'd be facing a big uphill climb from the start.

Quote:
The time wasn't right for Buffy, probably never will be. Buffy told the fullness of its story for the most part. There isn't this sense of not getting a chance, a very tiny minority were behind it, and there really wasn't much left to say in it.

That's a fan perspective. The people who'd have to put up the money for this won't care if the story's finished, of if it had a chance. And the Buffy cartooon they tried at the height of the shows popularity, before the story had finished, so I don't really see how your point applies.

Quote:
There are many indie and even major groups that would be willing if it was really wanted,

That sounds more like wishfull thinking, than anything factual. There have been many properties more successful than Firefly that have tried to continue in animated form, and almost all of them have fallen by the wayside.

It's a nice thought. But the many practicalities involved, far beyond just the rights, weigh heavily against it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

FIDDLER

Friday, March 6, 2009 11:28 PM

touche

"Am I talking to Miranda now?"

ADS

Saturday, March 7, 2009 6:51 PM

@ Storymark

Quote:
While I'd love to see a Firefly animated show, I doubt the market is really there for it.

The market isn't ther for it 'yet'. Thats why we are here.

Quote:
Besides, if Joss couldn't get a Buffy cartoon running at the height of it's popularity, the odds of a Firefly one getting a shot are slim to none.

On the surface I see your point but there are so many differences between Firefly and Buffy animation and the circumstances surrounding them that it is not very accurate to compare them. You guys have touched on it but I don't really consider it worth debating. If anyone disagrees I will though. I just don't have much time right now.

Quote:
Yes, we are a niche. And just this thread shows that there are some browncoats who are not interested in animation. And given that there really has never been any western animated drama that appealed to a large adult audience, it'd be facing a big uphill climb from the start.

Correct we are a niche. Just becuase a fan is not interested in animation though does that mean that they never will be? Does it mean that it isn't possible to grow a niche? Does that mean the tastes a niche has arn't good? We are all a niche as long as we all don't like reality tv and crap shows like the hills. Just because there hasn't been any significant interest in western animated drama does that mean that there never will be? I doubt it. What if Firefly was the first show to change that? Just because something is an uphill battle does that mean that it isn't worth fighting for or that it isn't achievable? Whats your definition of a large audience anyway?

Quote:
That's a fan perspective. The people who'd have to put up the money for this won't care if the story's finished, of if it had a chance. And the Buffy cartooon they tried at the height of the shows popularity, before the story had finished, so I don't really see how your point applies.

Thats a fan perspective also. I know people with a profesional perspective that would disagree with you. I agree that they wont ONLY care about if the story is finished and that they will also consider profits. Thats only natural for a company. But what I would also add and this has already been adressed in this thread is that there isn't much point making a show for fans if they are not going to adress what the fans want. The only reason we are getting serious consideration for animation is because they recognise that there are fans who wish firefly's story had of finished and that the show had of had a chance to succeed. The whole point of this is to generate enough fans so they will make this how we want and give it 'another' chance to succeed.

Also, a story is never really finished. There is always something more you can add. As far as a live action show go's, Buffy's story deffinatly finished.

Quote:
That sounds more like wishfull thinking, than anything factual. There have been many properties more successful than Firefly that have tried to continue in animated form, and almost all of them have fallen by the wayside.

Wishful thinking is exactly why we are here and you have already said that 'almost' all of them have failed. When it comes to me and I can imagine allot of other Firefily fans 'almost' is enough. Not to mention the 'fact' thet GB's company is very real and that his industry knowledge has clearly identified how many fans we need on board to make this happen. The number he has given could be considered a niche.

As far as I can see we as browncoats have two options. One is defeatist and one is optimistic.

1) Accept that we will never get to see more Firefly ever again and also accept that all the potential the story and the characters had will never be fulfilled.

OR

2) Identify the most viable way for this awsome show to continue and then unconditionally believe in and also support it because we love the show so much.

@ ZEEK

Good idea mate and thanks for the input. This has all deffinatly progressed very fast since this thread was started so

ZEEK

Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:52 PM

I'm going to try to remember to add your group thingiemabob on facebook. A.) I'll probably forget cause I most likely won't have time tonight B.) I'm a facebook noob and probably won't figure it out.

Still I'll do my best.

ADS

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:18 PM

It's super easy Zeek.

Just click on this link. Log in if it doesnt do so automatically. And hit join group.

Thats all it takes to help make this dream a reality.

http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=61221961583&ref=mf

MASTERJACKRYERSON

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:33 PM

Well, after reading the entire thread(Jeez, it was long) I have to say that I agree. If it was done right, an animated series would not only be good, but, at this point, it may be our only chance at getting something more of FF...

MASTERJACKRYERSON

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:33 PM

Well, after reading the entire thread(Jeez, it was long) I have to say that I agree. If it was done right, an animated series would not only be good, but, at this point, it may be our only chance at getting something more of FF...

STORYMARK

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:
@ Storymark

Quote:
While I'd love to see a Firefly animated show, I doubt the market is really there for it.

The market isn't ther for it 'yet'. Thats why we are here.

But "we" are not really a big enough market, or this would have happened long ago.

Quote:
On the surface I see your point but there are so many differences between Firefly and Buffy animation and the circumstances surrounding them that it is not very accurate to compare them. You guys have touched on it but I don't really consider it worth debating. If anyone disagrees I will though. I just don't have much time right now.

I agree, there are differences. Chiefly amongst them: Buffy was very popular with a wide audience and got a huge ammount of media attention, Firefly alas, was not. Buffy was, and still is, a property much more likely to survive a transition to another medium.

Sure, a group of dedicated fans, within the industry, could get something moving - maybe. That does not mean that it'd actually be successfull. If every single Browncoat watched - it probably wouldn't be enough to actually be a success. We need people outside our niche to bring that. And as this thread alone has shown, not even every Browncoat would watch an animated version, just like not every one reads the comics.

Quote:
Correct we are a niche. Just becuase a fan is not interested in animation though does that mean that they never will be? Does it mean that it isn't possible to grow a niche? Does that mean the tastes a niche has arn't good? We are all a niche as long as we all don't like reality tv and crap shows like the hills. Just because there hasn't been any significant interest in western animated drama does that mean that there never will be? I doubt it. What if Firefly was the first show to change that? Just because something is an uphill battle does that mean that it isn't worth fighting for or that it isn't achievable? Whats your definition of a large audience anyway?

Of course it doesn't mean that those with niche tastes have poor taste - I never said anything like that. What it does mean, however, is that we're a small group, and thus far less likely to form a profitable audience.

It's all dandy to say "maybe" Firefly would be the first animated show to click in that way, but it's just wishfull thinking - nothing factual to base it on. The fact is, if anyone were going to try to launch an animated series based on a TV show, they'd do something with a greater chance at a broad appeal - which Firefly/Serenity has failed at - twice. I love it, but I won't deny the reality.

Quote:
Thats a fan perspective also.

It's a fan perspective to say a company's only going to want to invest millions of dollars into something the think a large group of people might watch. M'kay.....

Quote:
Also, a story is never really finished. There is always something more you can add. As far as a live action show go's, Buffy's story deffinatly finished.

Yes, but as I've already pointed out, more than once - the Buffy animation project was something they tried while Buffy was still going - thus it WASN'T DONE YET.

Quote:
As far as I can see we as browncoats have two options. One is defeatist and one is optimistic.

You're missing the third - the pragmatic approach - the one where we seek way of continuing the story, which actually have a chance for success.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MASTERJACKRYERSON

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:46 PM

Quote:
You're missing the third - the pragmatic approach - the one where we seek way of continuing the story, which actually have a chance for success.

Out of curiosity, what way would you see best for continuing the story?

ZEEK

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Sure, a group of dedicated fans, within the industry, could get something moving - maybe. That does not mean that it'd actually be successfull. If every single Browncoat watched - it probably wouldn't be enough to actually be a success. We need people outside our niche to bring that. And as this thread alone has shown, not even every Browncoat would watch an animated version, just like not every one reads the comics.

What's your point? If the animation studios agree then they won't pursue the project. Is there are reason we should try to make that decision for them?

It's just my assumption, but I'm thinking the fanbase to make an animated show successful is far far less than a live action show. The budget for Firefly was quite large for a TV show if I recall correctly. I can't imagine animation would be anywhere near that cost. Plus the live action show needed network television sized success. An animated show would likely be on cable where they are happy with much smaller viewership.

I'm happy to let an animation studio know I'd watch the show and then leave the decision up to them. I think that's a better option than convincing ourselves it won't happen so we shouldn't even try.

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:06 PM

I checked out that guys "professional" quality animation... not impressed. Not even remotely. It just doesn't fit FF/S.

I'll also point out that his offer, "I'll get my company to do animation mock ups of each of the characters" would be a violation of copyright/IP law. He should expect to get his ass sued the moment Fox and/or Universal finds out about it. And his comment, "I am confident we could see the show by Fall 2010." is delusional. Or has he gotten both Universal and Fox to sign off on the project? I think not.

Seriously, Fox and Universal can't agree on how to work something that is guaranteed to have a revenue stream like the killed FF/S MMO...

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

SIGMANUNKI

Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

The budget for Firefly was quite large for a TV show if I recall correctly.

As I recall, it was a couple million per ep. That wasn't much back then, and it isn't much now. At least for shows that require CG. The real issue is that /scripted/ shows are *far* more expensive then "reality shows." This cost thing is just a pathetic excuse from Fox to kill a show that they didn't like from the get go.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I can't imagine animation would be anywhere near that cost. Plus the live action show needed network television sized success. An animated show would likely be on cable where they are happy with much smaller viewership.

If you're talking about a specialised channel such as the outdoor network, then you're right. But, in general, you're wrong. Counter example, BSG.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I'm happy to let an animation studio know I'd watch the show and then leave the decision up to them. I think that's a better option than convincing ourselves it won't happen so we shouldn't even try.

You're 1/2 right. You're right that letting studios know that you're interested in a product is a good idea. But, you're wrong about the convincing part. We don't need convincing that it won't happen. It won't. There are legal issues among other things that are reasons why it won't happen.

Why must this community continue to pursue pipe dreams instead of projects that actually have a chance at success? Oh, wait. Those projects require actual work instead of just sending an email stating that they want something. God forbid that people would actually do something.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

BYTEMITE

Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:05 AM

And what DO you suggest?

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

And what DO you suggest?

I'm honestly starting to wonder just how many times I (and others) have to say it before people will actually listen. But, my last paragraph kind of said it all:

Quote:

Why must this community continue to pursue pipe dreams instead of projects that actually have a chance at success? Oh, wait. Those projects require actual work instead of just sending an email stating that they want something. God forbid that people would actually do something.

So, to be explicitly clear:

Do NOT depend on the studios. There are legal issues up the **** that lead to the killing of the MMO and will kill any other projects.

DO make your own stuff. I outlined (again) some stuff here: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=20&t=34491#684412

Some other thoughts:

- Pool the resources. Our community might look active to some, but it really *really* isn't. There are *far* more people leaving than coming in. Everyone splitting off and doing there own thing will just create a bunch of failed projects instead of a few with a good chance of success.

- Think small. Don't do these grand projects that will take vast amounts of time and resources to complete. Pick something that a couple people could do in a couple months if they worked hard on it. It doesn't matter if that turns into working on and off over a year or more. The point is to do something that doesn't require massive amounts of time and energy to complete. This significantly increases the projects chance of success.

- Do something that doesn't require support from the community. I know first hand just how little support projects get (not to mention seen it in *many* other projects as well). It's a YAY in the beginning, then after a few days to a few weeks, nothing; all those promises of help evaporate.

- If a project has stalled, restart it. Starting new projects that re-create what has already been done makes the community look bad through numerous dead projects. So, make sure to do a thorough search before starting anything.

- (Re)start projects that produce something for the community. Sending letters/emails/etc or starting online polls/etc does nothing. Fan fic and fan art are a couple ideas. Games, whether they are board, card, or computer, are some more.

My above linked post links to a couple projects that have actually done something.

All that said, any project stands the chance of getting shut down. That is just the reality of using IP that one doesn't own or have license to use. Little fan projects are typically tolerated. But, large projects can catch the lawyers attention and projects where money exchanges hands (regardless of profit) will get killed as soon as the powers that be find it.

In essence, when thinking of a project, one should consider (not a complete list):

- How many people do I need to have work on this to complete it?
- How long will it take to complete?
- Is there a need for special skills on the project?
- Does it require funds that I/we don't have?
- Has someone else done/started it before?
- Does it produce something for the community to enjoy?
- Will it complete with a product already in existence, or with something that will or is likely to exist in the future?

As for me, I have a couple projects rattling around my brain that satisfy most or all of the above. But, I learned long ago not to say anything until I'm relatively certain things will work out. So, I continue my fiddling in secrecy.

As for you, if you're asking me for new project ideas, or known dead projects that could use a boost, I can't help aside from the links I've already given in that other post. Find others or create them yourself. Same goes for everyone else.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

ADS

Thursday, March 12, 2009 8:45 AM

@ STORYMARK

Quote:
But "we" are not really a big enough market, or this would have happened long ago.

This was tried long ago, soon after the movie in fact, but the fans where so over zealous about live action or nothing that it never took off. But back then there was still a realistic chance of more live action. This is not the case now.

Quote:
I agree, there are differences. Chiefly amongst them: Buffy was very popular with a wide audience and got a huge ammount of media attention, Firefly alas, was not. Buffy was, and still is, a property much more likely to survive a transition to another medium.

Your logic about buffy animation differences is correct but you failed to mention some other chief differences which balance out your negative views. While buffy was popular the fans where satisfied on the whole with the way buffy ended and how the story and characters where fully explored. They had no significant reason to support buffy animation. Firefly fans however are very much the opposite and are more likely to go out of there way to support any viable means for the story to reach its full potential.

Also, there where not as many options back then when it came to finding a home for such a show. Nowadays there are channels catoring to almost all tastes and styles and as long as there is 'adequite' support anything can take off.

An example. The first time I ever heard about the animated show cowboy beebop was when someone compared it to firefly. About two weeks ago I was surfing through foxtel and saw cowboy beebop on sci fi so I flicked over to check it out. I watched it for ten minutes and what I saw was a bunch of criminals who had taken over a spaceship. They where discussing there sordid pasts and then got into an argument and one guy ended up getting his throat slit.

Are you telling me that a show like that could be airable and Firefly couldn't. I reckon there are more Firefly fans than cowboy beebop fans. I know the story, script and characters on firefly are better than CB. If that isn't a realistic example I dont know what is.

Quote:
Sure, a group of dedicated fans, within the industry, could get something moving - maybe. That does not mean that it'd actually be successfull. If every single Browncoat watched - it probably wouldn't be enough to actually be a success. We need people outside our niche to bring that. And as this thread alone has shown, not even every Browncoat would watch an animated version, just like not every one reads the comics.

Zeek has already adressed this but I will re-iterate also.

If every single firefly fan whatched an animated show then its success is gaurenteed, but I agree that not all of them would. I do however think that if it was made 'most' of them would at least check it out despite their reservations and then all it comes down to is if the show is good or not.

You are wrong about needing fans outside our niche. We need many more fans from outside our niche to bring about live action. We only need to convince 'part' of our nich to support animation for this to get a chance. There are many Firefly fans and it has already been pointed out how much cheaper animation is. We only need a fraction of the fans for this to have a chance.

If it is made and it kicks ass and word spreads to the rest of the fans then not only will it ensure that the rest of the story will unfold via animation but it also makes us well on our way to having the first animated drama with a 'significant' following. Myabe it wont happen, but I dont really care about that anyway. At a minimum I just want this to take off and be maintained by the fraction of the fans who only care about the story, script and characters getting a fair go.

In regards to the comics. There is allot you cannot do in comics. But there is not allot you cannot do in animation. Complete episodic and seasonal story arcs, check. Dynamic conversation, action, and the proper conveyance of humerous and emotional scenes, checks. With good animation you can make a very accurate

ADS

Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:05 AM

@ SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
I checked out that guys "professional" quality animation... not impressed. Not even remotely. It just doesn't fit FF/S.

I'll also point out that his offer, "I'll get my company to do animation mock ups of each of the characters" would be a violation of copyright/IP law. He should expect to get his ass sued the moment Fox and/or Universal finds out about it. And his comment, "I am confident we could see the show by Fall 2010." is delusional. Or has he gotten both Universal and Fox to sign off on the project? I think not.

Seriously, Fox and Universal can't agree on how to work something that is guaranteed to have a revenue stream like the killed FF/S MMO...

Its fine that you don't like his animation. Everyone has different tastes. Personally I like the quality of his work but I have only seen stills so I will reserve final judgment untill I see it live. His style however is irrelivent. The stlye he is using is likely fitting for his movie and is not neccesarily the style he would use for firefly. In fact he and his company would likely get together and try and work out the most fitting style to accuratly represent the 'verse and use their resources and expierience to do it justice. Thats not even mentioning the fact that we are really only supporting Firefly animation. Whoever makes it is our 'secondary' concern at best.

I like how you wrote 'proffesional' like that. Like an animated feature film that cost over two million dollars to make could even be considered anything other than proffesional.

The guy runs a company so I highly doubt that he is stupid enough to offer to do anything that could get him sued. As far as I know anyone can write or draw anything they want as long as said material isn't used to make money. There is already some 'unporfessional' Firefly animation going around.

How do you know he is delusional? Can I ask what you do for a living? The guy is just trying to help us understand that all this concept needs is open minded fans to get behind it. Like he has already tried to do a few years back.

Quote:
As I recall, it was a couple million per ep. That wasn't much back then, and it isn't much now. At least for shows that require CG. The real issue is that /scripted/ shows are *far* more expensive then "reality shows." This cost thing is just a pathetic excuse from Fox to kill a show that they didn't like from the get go.

According to GB live action was about 2 million an episode. Good animation can be done for five hundred thousand an episode(including talent). Four hundred thousand if they order episodes in numbers.

Quote:
If you're talking about a specialised channel such as the outdoor network, then you're right. But, in general, you're wrong. Counter example, BSG.

GB; "Television is solely a numbers game. If the numbers are there, the network will respond. Fox needed numbers in the 5 million viewers range. As I said, an animated version on Sci-Fi in a late night spot could be landed for a tenth of that."

Quote:
You're 1/2 right. You're right that letting studios know that you're interested in a product is a good idea. But, you're wrong about the convincing part. We don't need convincing that it won't happen. It won't. There are legal issues among other things that are reasons why it won't happen.

Thats not a very detailed explanation. I don't think there is a legal reason on the planet that would stop the owners of the firefly rights making more profit on the show. If there is I can assure you they will do their best to get arround it and it is certainly nothing us fans should be concerned about. As I have already said, all we should be focusing on is showing them how much we want to see more firefly.

Quote:
Why must this community continue to pursue pipe dreams instead of projects that actually have a chance at success? Oh, wait. Those projects require actual work instead of just sending an email stating that they want something. God forbid that people would actually do something.

This is a pr

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

His style however is irrelivent.

Actually, his style is relevant. He's stated in prior threads that his company "has its own style." So, that says something about what his is more than likely to do. Look through the archives if you don't believe me.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

I like how you wrote 'proffesional' like that. Like an animated feature film that cost over two million dollars to make could even be considered anything other than proffesional.

Well, 1) you should spell things correctly if you're going to get snide like that, and 2) there are many many movies/etc that are consider unprofessional. A good example of that is the Dragonlance animated movie. The word, professional, says more about the word than how much money was spent on it. It tells much about the quality as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

The guy runs a company so I highly doubt that he is stupid enough to offer to do anything that could get him sued. As far as I know anyone can write or draw anything they want as long as said material isn't used to make money. There is already some 'unporfessional' Firefly animation going around.

You really really need to become more familiar with copyright/IP law.

There's also the fact that tiny little fan projects are typically tolerated (note the typically, some The X Files fans found out when they weren't typical). But, they are still breaking the law and could be shut down at any time.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

How do you know he is delusional?

I answered that already. Read the next sentence to that statement.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Can I ask what you do for a living?

Now there is an irrelevant statement if I ever saw one. Also, see comment directly above.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

The guy is just trying to help us understand that all this concept needs is open minded fans to get behind it. Like he has already tried to do in the past.

No, it needs far more than that. This "concept" needs to get permission from the current IP holders (Fox and Universal). That costs money.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

According to GB live action was about 2 million an episode. Good animation can be done for five hundred thousand an episode(including talent). Four hundred thousand if they order episodes in numbers.

So, you verify what I said and include some other numbers. What's your point? It's still an IP that "we" do not have permission to use nor money that "we" have.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

GB; "Television is solely a numbers game. If the numbers are there, the network will respond. Fox needed numbers in the 5 million viewers range. As I said, an animated version on Sci-Fi in a late night spot could be landed for a tenth of that."

Cherry picking your data then, eh? Well, even if that is true, and I highly doubt that, where are those viewers going to come from? Because, even many many Firefly fans have stated that they won't watch. As in, a statement such as the above is moot until the number are proven and the ROI is guaranteed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Thats not a very detailed explanation. I don't think there is a legal reason on the planet that would stop the owners of the firefly rights making more profit on the show. If there is I can assure you they will do their best to get arround it and it is certainly nothing us fans should be concerned about.

Yah, because that's just what happened with the MMO. Right?

Are you an Ostridge?

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

As I have already said, all we should be focusing on is showing them how much we want to see more firefly.

Yah, because that's worked so well in the past, right? You know, one of the definitions of insanit

SIGMANUNKI

Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

This was tried long ago, soon after the movie in fact, but the fans where so over zealous about live action or nothing that it never took off. But back then there was still a realistic chance of more live action. This is not the case now.

No we weren't. We were against an animated series because the medium doesn't fit FF/S. I was there, I know.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

While buffy was popular the fans where satisfied on the whole with the way buffy ended and how the story and characters where fully explored. They had no significant reason to support buffy animation.

Moot.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Firefly fans however are very much the opposite and are more likely to go out of there way to support any viable means for the story to reach its full potential.

Nope. Though, I think you won't believe me as the fans that would be against this don't really come around any more. It's mostly delusional fan boys here now.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Also, there where not as many options back then when it came to finding a home for such a show. Nowadays there are channels catoring to almost all tastes and styles and as long as there is 'adequite' support anything can take off.

It was actually pretty much the same back then. I mean, sure there are more channels now. But, there really isn't any more channels that would be relevant to Buffy or FF/S survival.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

An example. The first time I ever heard about the animated show cowboy beebop was when someone compared it to firefly. About two weeks ago I was surfing through foxtel and saw cowboy beebop on sci fi so I flicked over to check it out. I watched it for ten minutes and what I saw was a bunch of criminals who had taken over a spaceship. They where discussing there sordid pasts and then got into an argument and one guy ended up getting his throat slit.

Are you telling me that a show like that could be airable and Firefly couldn't. I reckon there are more Firefly fans than cowboy beebop fans. I know the story, script and characters on firefly are better than CB. If that isn't a realistic example I dont know what is.

Not a realistic example. CB was created as an anime whereas Firefly was filmed and would need to be converted for the new medium. A conversion that isn't possible due to reasons in my last post. Not to mention the radically different animation styles...

But, I'll correct you on your comment that CB's ship was a bunch of criminals. They aren't. They are bounty hunters.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Zeek has already adressed this but I will re-iterate also.

If every single firefly fan whatched an animated show then its success is gaurenteed, but I agree that not all of them would. I do however think that if it was made 'most' of them would at least check it out despite their reservations and then all it comes down to is if the show is good or not.

You are wrong about needing fans outside our niche. We need many more fans from outside our niche to bring about live action. We only need to convince 'part' of our nich to support animation for this to get a chance. There are many Firefly fans and it has already been pointed out how much cheaper animation is. We only need a fraction of the fans for this to have a chance.

If it is made and it kicks ass and word spreads to the rest of the fans then not only will it ensure that the rest of the story will unfold via animation but it also makes us well on our way to having the first animated drama with a 'significant' following.Myabe it wont happen, but I dont really care about that anyway. At a minimum I just want this to take off and be maintained by the fraction of the fans who only care about the story, script and characters getting a fair go.

Two terms apply here, delusional and baseless assumption.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

a

ADS

Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:21 AM

Wow, you really adressed everything in these ones and as a result have made some really good points so I will make another post tonight. You even fired of a second post before I could finish writing a response to your first one(but I am a slow typer). I am really running out of relaxing time now though so I will have to respond to your second one tommorow.

You have deffinatly made your point clear with the qouting everything so I don't think we need to do that anymore. Also some real points have been made as to why this might not work and these warrant some looking into(which I will do)

Fair enough, his style might be relevant(I believe you that he brought it up before). But it also might translate well into firefly and I have yet to see his style in action so I can't make a personal opinion on wether I would like to see Firefly 'similar' to his past work.

I am sorry for being snide. I just disagreed with your insinuation though and voiced a counter. It wasnt the most polite way to do it though. I am also sorry that I have bad spelling. I sometimes forget that this is important to people and forget to spell check everything. I think if an animation company does something though it is considered professional. It might not be good but I never said all professional work was(it is however more likely).

You are probably right when it comes to copyright law. But as I said, I don't think it is a fan concern. If GB thinks he can make some animation mock ups than thats his concern and who am I to doubt him. I am sure if Universal or whoever contact him or he realises that he can't safely make mock ups then he will be the first to withdraw his offer.

Of course this concept will need permission. I have already taken that into account as I am sure GB has also. I already recognised and I am sure he has already taken into account that the best way to get permission is to 'try' and generate fan support for something. If the support is there, then the permission will be soon to follow.

Maybe GB's figures are not accurate. I am not nieve and I don't asssume anything. So you could be 100% correct. But then again until someone contradicts me with something more certain I am inclined to assume(for now) that he knows what he is talking about.

I havnt seen many fans state that they wont watch firefly animation and I am not an ostridge. I agnowledge that there is a broader picture I just recognise that as a fan it is not my concern because it is not something I can influence. I will support the most viable way to get firefly back on the air and if it dies despite having the required support then I will at least know we did our best.

I wasnt even aware of the Firefly MMO and didn't even recognise what it was when I saw it in your post(i just had a quick look then). So is it a certainty that the exact same thing will happen to Firefly animation if it generates support? I am not aware of what happened with the computer game and would be interested in how this translates into a show for a tv program getting canned. Seriously I just wish to know your opinion because you have already looked into this.

I think I would be insane if I actually did expect anything. All I am doing is hoping and making the most imformed choices I can. All I know is if fans do something as simple as joining a facebook group, which is basically just a glorified petition then we 'might' get something. Might being the operative word because if 50,000 firefly fans took fifteen minutes out of their lives then we would see that either it is enough interest to get a response from the big wigs or it isn't. Seiously what do I or any other fan have to lose for just joining a facebook group.

I see your point though and I might be getting over zealous. But I would just say that I am getting excited. I don't want to see a small Firefly project. I want to see a big firefly project that joss is behind and lots of 'proffesional' effort is put into. I am not getting excited because it is a certainty. I am getting excited because I never thought it was poss

FILLYGIRL

Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:43 AM

WTF?

Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

JAYNESMANE

Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:08 PM

I'm not sure i'd really like Firefly as an animated show. It just wouldn't be the same.. sure you'd have the story continuation but the entire feel of the show might be lost, I feel..

---
http://surveysafari.x10hosting.com/redirect.html - Make money online filling out surveys!

ZEEK

Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:40 PM

I can't believe that fanfic is being compared to a professional effort to bring the Firefly story back. Cannon is so much more appealing than a fan work IMO.

I also think it's ridiculous that there's supposedly some impossible roadblock put up by Universal and Fox. Did you hear about these comic book thingies? Apparently the rights got worked out. I'm not too worried about it happening again.

All in all there's nothing here that is going to hurt the fans. If you would watch the show join the group. If you don't like it then don't bother.

Personally I joined the group. Thanks for the link Ads that made it easy. I'll point some of my other Firefly loving friends to it as well.

GREENFAERIE

Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:57 PM

I'd watch an animated version of Firefly. I'm not going to shoot it down without giving it a chance. That's why the original Firefly was cancelled. no one gave it a chance.

(a.k.a. wydraz)

BYTEMITE

Thursday, March 12, 2009 4:17 PM

Well... The situation with Universal and Fox seems a bit murkier right now.

We have Joss Whedon now working for Fox. We have a delay in the newest Serenity comic book. I try to be optimistic about what both those meanings could be, i.e. hey, maybe he's working for Fox again because he was promised some Firefly opportunities. Or even just neutral, in saying Joss is probably just busy with Dollhouse. But it could also be that Fox is trying to squash the comic books, or there's some new fight brewing.

Of course, when it comes to animation, it's not like Fox or Universal have in-house animation studios. They'd have to be approached by an animation company/hire one anyway. And I guess I don't understand why someone can't just offer both companies a cut of the profits.

@ Sigmanunki: Fanwork, even the good stuff, isn't official, isn't Joss, Nathan, and crew. I like fanwork, but proposing that it is the best way to advance the unfinished story lines of Firefly and Serenity, while at the same time decrying that all people are willing to do is post blogs or join facebook groups or give lip-service to ambitious fanprojects doomed to fail, well, that doesn't sit right with me. I support fanwork because these people are authors and artists I respect and I enjoy what they create, not because I think they're all that's potentially left of future Firefly/Serenity. I enjoy their work because it's good, not because they're a lifeline to grasp at and it's all we got.

By the way, which of those categories you mention did the Serenity movie fall under? Small project? Not many people involved? No special skills necessary? Not ambitious? Not a lot of funding?

You seem to think big ideas are bad ideas, that for some reason when a project fizzles out, it also kills hope. I think the big ideas are what give us hope. You say that those hopes are doomed and shouldn't be embraced, I say we should embrace those hopes, or it's a self-fulfilling prophesy that big projects will fail.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this. And maybe you have the experience/knowledge on your side, and maybe support for new ambitious projects has fallen off since the movie. You point out problems with the animation style, acceptance, professionalism, legal rights, and audience that are all valid concerns, issues that would have to be addressed as part of the process to produce these projects.

But I can't just dismiss the new ambitious projects just on account of their being ambitious. You can ask me not to, and I understand why you're asking me not to, but I can't.

ASARIAN

Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:39 PM

@ Sigmanunki: I don't think the legal issues are as unsurmountable as you make them out to be. They're only untakeable obstacles when you try and go against FOX or Universal -- which no sane person would even try and do.

@ADS: I still have some reservations about an animated Firefly. Sigmanunki did have a good point, namely that facial expression and such would need to be of high quality (comparable to Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within I mentioned earlier). Having a reservation or two, however, does not equate having you put through the wringer, as if you were the very FOX exec that made Firefly go away. And for that I apologize, even if I weren't the one doing it. I appreciate your efforts; if for nothing else, because it's good to know there's still folks out there who give a good half gorram about the continuation of the 'Verse! Apparently you've been pushed to the losing side of this argument; but I'm still not convinced it's the wrong one. Please, continue the good work.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

CELLARDOOR

Friday, March 13, 2009 12:24 AM

*CellarDoor cowers behind Bytemite and Asarian as she beholds the fury of Sigmanunki's pragmatic cynicism*

Heh, loaded comment to begin with. Ok, since I'm new to the neighborhood, I honestly have no clue what other fandom's think of Browncoats, though it is quickly becoming apparent to me that we're not exactly highly regarded (lovely...). And. I am a member of www.savefirefly.org and I did send postcards in their recent *second* campaign.

I haven't seen the onslaught of the fanboys that Sigmanunki's profile mentions; heck, I probably am part of that onslaught. In that profile, I can read the yearning for days that can't be recovered, when Firefly was a closely guarded secret.

I'm not a huge fan of the idea of an animated Firefly either (I agree about the nuances and subtleties being almost impossible to render through animation), but the idea and the magnitude interest me. Plus, if it did take off and go somewhere, I'd like to know that the fans had a little input! The copyright implications do unsettle me, quite a bit. Plagiarism is no joke.

Settling for small, fan-made projects can be a temporary fix, but that's not what I yearn for: more canon material. Big projects DO help me dream big. I'm grateful for the link to the EV Nova mod, and I might actually check that out, since I used to play EV Nova anyway... It's not official material though. Are we at the end of official material? I'm not ready to say we are, but I don't know that the timing is right just yet.

Heh, none of that was in order. I'm just... glad to see discussions and debates continue. I'm sorry to read the community has all but gone inactive. Thanks to the debaters for "food for thought" and thanks to Zeek, Bytemite and Asarian for helping a poor, confused newbie find her footing while listening to the commotion.

BYTEMITE

Friday, March 13, 2009 3:39 AM

>_>

I've been here about two months, to be honest, and I only found Firefly early last October.

See, I'm the new private in the trenches, the annoying one who's gonna get folks killed if I don't wise up.

I really didn't mean to come across as confrontational as it appears I have. And I don't have a problem with Sigmanunki, in fact I agree with a lot of the posts I've seen in the RWD forum.

Here, I don't, and that's fine. Sigmanunki is being rational here, been around longer than me, and has every reason for every point made in this argument.

If Sigmanunki just doesn't want to see projects fail, and that's the point we ALL agree on, I just don't want to see them fail before they're even born. And I don't think it's a waste for anyone or for resources to support higher profile projects. Could be that's naive. But that's what I want to believe.

That's all.

CELLARDOOR

Friday, March 13, 2009 4:49 AM

Well, Bytemite... I guess I'm the dangerous private right there with ya. Sorry if I mischaracterized you in any way. I'll try to step back and listen longer before putting in my oar.

Sigma IS being rational, but I sense a battle-weariness there too, all too fitting for a Browncoat in many ways. I guess an army (to continue the metaphor) needs all ranks to properly function. Kinda saddens me to think about all the dashed dreams these forums have seen. *sighs to ponder and thinks better of too much introspection late at night* Hmm... *grabs a pint of mudder's milk*

ADS

Friday, March 13, 2009 5:24 AM

When I spoke to GB about this he said it is basically a matter of opinion and he is very right.Some people lean one way others lean another. GB is confident he could pull it off and others are certain he can't. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Sigmanunki does make good points but we could go on arguing our different points of view forever. An assumption he sees as baseless I see as reasonable. Where he sees why animation wont be good I see why it will be. Where he sees why this isn't viable I see why it is. He has views on Buffy's story and I have different ones and other fans have even different views.

For the record I wasn't entirely happy with the last season of Buffy either but on the whole I was happy that the series ended with a conclusion. Angels I wasn't happy with but compared to Firefly,Angels ending was the best I had ever seen.

I will even be fair and give credit to Sigmanunki and instead of stating exactly what is and isn't possibly I will meet him halfway.

Animation either will or won't be good.
Some fans will be on board, some won't be on board. Some might be open minded enough to change their point of view.
There might or there might not be legal problems.
I don't know anything for a certainty and I acknowledge that.

To be honest I think Sigmanunki is closer to the mark when it comes to the liklyhood that this wont get the amount of fan support it needs. But I think that GB is closer to the mark that if this did have the fan support it will work. But thats just my opinion and everyone is entitled to one.

Something I would like to directly comment on though is when he asked how we could reach every firefly fan. There are probably a few ways but I already know the best one(that doesn't include any expense). Unfortunatly it is both extremely easy and very difficult. Ironically the power to make many thousands of Firefly fans who might be open to Firefly animation aware of it is in the hands of a few firefly fans who are likely not as open to animation.

Its good to see others are supportive of this idea but I especially liked what Asarian semi quoted and it was something similar to what I would have posted on this board myself if this idea ultimatly fails(we are only just getting started though).

Quote:
"Apparently you've been pushed to the losing side of this argument; but I'm still not convinced it's the wrong one."

ZEEK

Friday, March 13, 2009 3:35 PM

I think a part of the weariness of the community is that we've seen lots of people come in with some idea of how to save firefly. A lot of the ideas are repeats. Others haven't done even the most basic of research.

I've been around for a long time and I haven't seen any serious discussions about animated Firefly. If there was talk going on around the time of the movie I probably didn't notice because I was more concerned with the movie being a smash hit.

Personally I like the idea of animated Firefly. I've seen animated shows that are done well. If Firefly was done in a similar fashion I think it could run through at least 3 seasons and get us some closure. IMO that's worth a shot.

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Fair enough, his style might be relevant(I believe you that he brought it up before). But it also might translate well into firefly and I have yet to see his style in action so I can't make a personal opinion on wether I would like to see Firefly 'similar' to his past work.

Style changes the whole tone and mood of things. So, it most certainly is relevant to this project. I'm surprised that a clip from a project of his isn't floating around. There was the last time.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

You are probably right when it comes to copyright law. But as I said, I don't think it is a fan concern. If GB thinks he can make some animation mock ups than thats his concern and who am I to doubt him. I am sure if Universal or whoever contact him or he realises that he can't safely make mock ups then he will be the first to withdraw his offer.

I wasn't necessarily talking about the mockups. It's that he's talking about mockups that will lead to a completed project. I'm absolutely certain that Fox/Universal will have something to say about that.

Now, if he was even remotely humble and said, "If there's enough fan support I'll do some mockups. Then if the support is still there, we'll do a bit of a demo and take it to Fox/Universal to see what they think of it." That might be acceptable. But, since all companies I know are very secretive about the projects they are working on until they get the ok from the 'powers that be', I'm still quite dubious about the matter. In fact, since the mockups would be considered derivative works, he's still taking a grand risk. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got a DMCA takedown notice and talks never happened because of the arrogance of what he's "confident" in.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

Of course this concept will need permission. I have already taken that into account as I am sure GB has also. I already recognised and I am sure he has already taken into account that the best way to get permission is to 'try' and generate fan support for something. If the support is there, then the permission will be soon to follow.

That last sentence should be completed by, if Fox/Universal like it as well. After all, there was fan support for Firefly when it was on the air and that didn't matter one little bit.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

I havnt seen many fans state that they wont watch firefly animation and I am not an ostridge. I agnowledge that there is a broader picture I just recognise that as a fan it is not my concern because it is not something I can influence. I will support the most viable way to get firefly back on the air and if it dies despite having the required support then I will at least know we did our best.

The long game is our best chance to get more FF/S. Grasping at pipe dream projects just makes the community look high maintenance.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=35378#647869

But, I should also say that you haven't seen many fans say that they would watch an animated series either. That being because there aren't many fans around any more.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ads:

I wasnt even aware of the Firefly MMO and didn't even recognise what it was when I saw it in your post(i just had a quick look then). So is it a certainty that the exact same thing will happen to Firefly animation if it generates support? I am not aware of what happened with the computer game and would be interested in how this translates into a show for a tv program getting canned. Seriously I just wish to know your opinion because you have already looked into this.

CK said a bit about that in the above link. But, effectively the word is that the lawyers killed it.

The short story is that Fox gave out the license to Mulitverse to make a MMO in the style of FF. So, they started looking for a development studio and apparently found one. I say apparently because there

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I can't believe that fanfic is being compared to a professional effort to bring the Firefly story back. Cannon is so much more appealing than a fan work IMO.

Not compared to directly in the way you are implying. You're making assumptions about who is going to be involved in the project, the level of quality, etc. Baseless assumptions.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I also think it's ridiculous that there's supposedly some impossible roadblock put up by Universal and Fox. Did you hear about these comic book thingies? Apparently the rights got worked out. I'm not too worried about it happening again.

Comics make peanuts. TV shows on the other hand make a fair bit more. That's what makes it a very different thing when it comes to the lawyers. You heard about that MMO thing, right? The reasons why it got killed, right?

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

All in all there's nothing here that is going to hurt the fans. If you would watch the show join the group. If you don't like it then don't bother.

Actually, yes there is:

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=35378#647869

Btw, CK is a creative professional living in LA.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

i.e. hey, maybe he's working for Fox again because he was promised some Firefly opportunities.

In an interview Joss stated that he had lunch with Eliza and she mentioned a deal she had with Fox. Joss had an idea which was Dollhouse and wanted to work with Eliza again. So, they/he pitched the show and it went from there. There has been exactly zero even rumours about a FF/S link. So, I would thank you to keep these "conspiracy theories" to yourself.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

And I guess I don't understand why someone can't just offer both companies a cut of the profits.

Um, because business doesn't work that way? Because, the lawyers need to work out every detail and fight with the other owner of the license to try to get the better deal? Because, not every show will be good and in fact, can sully the reputation of the franchise making it even more difficult to profit off of in the future? Etc, etc, etc. Maybe those might have something to do with it?

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

@ Sigmanunki: Fanwork, even the good stuff, isn't official, isn't Joss, Nathan, and crew.

Neither will an animated series.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I like fanwork, but proposing that it is the best way to advance the unfinished story lines of Firefly and Serenity, while at the same time decrying that all people are willing to do is post blogs or join facebook groups or give lip-service to ambitious fanprojects doomed to fail, well, that doesn't sit right with me.

It not sitting right with you doesn't make it not a fact.

The situation is that the size of this fan community is dwindling. The situation is that the fans here only latch on to big projects that are pipe dreams. The situation is that the fans here have historically shown to only to post on forums or at most send a letter or two as an "effort" to get FF/S back. Etc, etc, etc. That's just not good enough. Not by a long shot.

You want people to stick around after finding out about FF/S? You know what needs to happen? Multiple projects going at any given time that have a high probability of successful completion. Not only that, but a tonne of material already completed that will keep people interested and around until the ongoing projects complete whatever they are doing.

Do you honestly think that Fox or Universal is going to do that for us? Well, it's been quite some time since the last thing came out. So, I have to ask: How's the waiting game/waiting for people to do something for you, working for you? From where I sit, it really isn't working all that well.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I support fanwork because these people are authors and artists I respect and I enjoy what they create, not because I think they're all that's potentially left of future Firefly/Serenity. I enjoy their work because it's good, not because they're a lifeline to grasp at and it's all we got.

Right now and for the foreseeable future, it is all we got. That's fact. You coming to terms with that is a whole other story though.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

By the way, which of those categories you mention did the Serenity movie fall under? Small project? Not many people involved? No special skills necessary? Not ambitious? Not a lot of funding?

Um, completely different situation maybe? Like, you know, Joss was involved then. Like the fan community was galvanised in that singular task at that point. Like, there was a lot more of us around not to mentioning active then. Like, the economic situation wasn't in the toilet then. Etc, etc, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

You seem to think big ideas are bad ideas, that for some reason when a project fizzles out, it also kills hope. I think the big ideas are what give us hope. You say that those hopes are doomed and shouldn't be embrace

SIGMANUNKI

Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

@ Sigmanunki: I don't think the legal issues are as unsurmountable as you make them out to be. They're only untakeable obstacles when you try and go against FOX or Universal -- which no sane person would even try and do.

Ask about that from the Multiverse guys. There project would have been mutually beneficial to both Fox and Universal. I forget. What is the status of that project?

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:

because it's good to know there's still folks out there who give a good half gorram about the continuation of the 'Verse!

You're assuming that those of us against an animated series don't. Are you sure that's a good assumption? Because, from where I sit, I not only care about it, but I care about it enough to forgo projects like this that are just in the 'something' category, and go for the projects in the 'actual quality' category. Not to mention also in the 'likely' category as well.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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