Dollhouse: Man on the Street. Do you think it delivered?

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Thursday, March 26, 2009 07:41
VIEWED: 17046
PAGE 1 of 1

HAKEN

Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:13 AM

Tonight's episode, "Man on the Street" is supposedly what 'Dollhouse' is really all about and what Joss Whedon really wanted to make when he came up with the idea for the series.

Do you think it delivered? Or do you think it's too little, too late?

Watch it and post your reactions.

CUDA77

Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:17 AM

Hell yes it delivered. That was an amazing roller coaster ride of an episode. I already cannot wait for next week's episode.

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:25 AM

That ep was KICKASS!

Bring on the naysayers!

SGG

Tawabawho?

CELLARDOOR

Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:26 AM

I had so many "Ohmygosh, YES!!" and "Ohmygosh, NOOO!!!" moments this episode I could hardly keep track! Roller coaster indeed. It absolutely delivered, but delivered does not necessarily mean saved. Moving beyond that depressing concept right now... I noted several echoes (no pun intended) of Firefly in there.

Spoilers were in place since I know some people watched BSG tonight...but really, don't come to the thread if you don't want spoilers. It's been long enough that I'm removing the tags.

Heart of Gold line, Badger/Tanaka threatening "You're not long for this world" type lines, Ballard saying "I surely do" near exactly like Mal does. Oh, I'm so geeked out! And I thought the word "serenity" in last week's episode was exciting.

How completely... tragic? gut wrenching? about Mellie and Mellie/Paul! I had heard she was probably November, but... :(

Just so much happened in this episode! I'm hoping someone can compose a more coherent response than mine right now. I loved this episode, and... barring any earth-shaking change, I find that I love Dollhouse. Why, oh why doesn't Fox let Joss loose with his ideas from the get-go?

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, March 21, 2009 2:51 AM

I posted here that I thought that our neighbor in 205 (Millie) was a doll and my son said "no way".

What started out as an ordinary ep, with the usual assignment machinations, ended up THE best ep of the season so far. Wow, what action. There is always something more with Joss. And patience is what's needed to get to the good stuff.

I did not see it coming: Echo meeting up with Ballard and giving him what he wanted - Caroline. Only with a twist. Good set up. An innocent investigation in the DH turns up a predator, that is sent off to his punishment.

This is getting good, REAL good!

SGG

Tawabawho?

FREELANCERTEX

Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:03 AM

grrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! the rents were bent on watching other stuff, but we came in on Sierra FLIPPING the eff out and then getting an exam by the doc, and mom went "*scoff* really? what is this? come on change it." came back when ballard and his neighbor were finally getting together, then him meeting up with Echo, cut out again because good will hunting was on, came back when ballard was laying his gun and his badge on his boss's desk and leaving. came back at the end when Echo ended up at that dude's house and bein all happy while the music played. i was about ready to shoot my dad for changing the channel so many times.

will someone plz explain what happened? I've already seen bits of it, including hte end @_@ *massive eyeroll* so you won't really be spoiling anything for me, just helping to make sense of the bits and pieces i was able to pick up. I'll watch it eventually, but i can't this weekend ><;; and i can't wait :P

*steals Cuda's banner* fuckin rocks, dude.

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:

Spoilers since I know some people watched BSG tonight...

Ratings are out:
BSG 0.00...
Dollhouse 5 by 5

"My God, you're, so... neighborly!"
-Mellie, Dollhouse, Man in the Street
www.fox.com/dollhouse/

DAVESHAYNE

Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:46 AM

This really should have been the first episode. Or something very much like it should have been the first episode since this ep did rely a bit on us already knowing everybody. I now actually care about these characters and I really didn't before. All those personality of the week episodes would have worked a lot better as filler between arc episodes than they did as setup for the series.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, March 21, 2009 3:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by freelancertex:

will someone plz explain what happened?

Fox website crashed and burned tonight, but should have the full epp download:
www.fox.com/dollhouse/

Review of Dollhouse, Man in the Street, with preview of Omega:
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/03/joss-whedon-reads-franklin-c
overup.html

"Go live in your Real World... If you ever did."
-Bill Gates, Dollhouse, Man in the Street

THATWEIRDGIRL

Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:26 AM

It was soooooo awesome.

---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
www.thatcostumegirl.com
www.thatweirdgirl.com

PHYRELIGHT

Saturday, March 21, 2009 4:30 AM

ABSOLUTELY!!

YINYANG

Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:26 AM

My thoughts on this episode are a little scattered, so I'll use bullet points:

- Porn! Loved that part. Made me lol.

- Pretty much expected the neighbor to be a doll... but for Ballard and her to get it on? Um, that's bad.

- The Sierra and Victor subplot is cute, and I'm glad it wasn't him, even as what the handler did was horrifying.

- I'm not sure I liked the way the "news" footage was used. It was nice to have the Dollhouse condemned some more, though.

- The interaction between Echo's imprint and Ballard (the second time) was strange. So was the conversation he had with Joseph (?) the Internet mogul.

I may watch this episode again because there was so much going on. I'm definitely interested in the show now.

Edited to add more.

FIREFLYPASSENGER

Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:29 AM

Definitely delivered. This was Joss' Dollhouse and you could tell the difference.

I loved it!!! Joss is back.

Up until now it's been breadcrumbs, this was a treat but I know more goodness is coming.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:16 AM

I had suspicions about Mellie, but they kept seeming empty. That moment really blew me away. There was a lot to make my eyes widen, and a lot to make me think, but that phone call was a real kind of 'Holy !' moment. Not only because it confirmed she was a doll, but because she had embedded programing within her programing. It reminded me a lot of River and the safe word.
And her eyes changed color! I wonder what that indicates...

[/sig]

KHAMBILO

Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:48 AM

Best. Episode. Yet.

This episode proves the FOX-meddling theory in my mind. This episode was fresh, compeling... it was Joss!

SISTER

Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:36 PM

very, very good - nice twisty-turns!

WHOZIT

Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:53 PM

At the start of the episode I heard the line "Whore with a heart of gold", a message for us Browncoats? the ep was written by joss.

GWEK

Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyPassenger:
Definitely delivered. This was Joss' Dollhouse and you could tell the difference.

I loved it!!! Joss is back.

Up until now it's been breadcrumbs, this was a treat but I know more goodness is coming.

I agree. I think that the show has been getting incrementally better with every episode (which is good, because it started out pretty low), but this week's episode was a BIG jump up.

The question is, is it too little too late? And the answer, sadly, will probably be "Yes." Even though this was the best episode yet, how many people were still around to see it? (Further compounding any sliding ratings is the unfortunate timing of this key episode going up against the BSG finale.)

I've noticed a potentially troubling pattern with the show: it's at its best when Eliza Dushku is not on the screen.

It was especially apparent in last night's episode (and will hopefully change in the coming weeks), but in almost every episode, what's going on back at the Dollhouse or with Agent Ballard is far more interesting than echo's mission. Heck, in "True Believer," the "man reaction" sub-plot was a thousand times more compelling than the A-story with the cultists. Given that this is supposed to be Dushku's vehicle, that could be problematic.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

ZEEK

Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:11 PM

This was like an episode from a totally different show. The engagement this time seemed exactly like something someone would pay a ton of money for. It still went wrong but for a reason that felt normal. The twists and turns were awesome. It really kept the episode going. Now I'm wondering what the purpose of the Dollhouses are. World domination? Right now I feel like DeWitt is the mole. She's in so deep that the only way out is to take the whole thing down. She seems to be grooming Ballard for that purpose. Though it could easily be someone else.

I'm just worried we're going to get a canceled show with no answers.

PMing you a synopsis FLT.

TUJIAOZUO

Saturday, March 21, 2009 7:33 PM

I must say, the pilot didn't feel like a Whedon show, second ep, an inkling, and from then on more and more of that Jossian vibe, last night's ep though made me one happy nerd. 100% Whedon and no network leash. Really did feel like an entirely different show compared to the pilot (and could have easily passed as a pilot if it had been slightly tweaked imo).

I liked the engagement this week, as said above it really came across as something someone would pay for; being able to reenact a moment of happiness, to play out something that was marred by tragidy.

Mellie's a Doll! I was cringing in fear with her tragic death I felt I knew would happen, but then the remote trigger was made of win (and Adele is teh s**t btw) and she was suddenly as badass as River in the Maidenhouse (with roses instead of fruity oaty bars). I really like her character, sleeper doll and all, her current personality is a cute pairing with Ballard.

Ballard isn't the brightest bulb to be announcing his case to a civilian... Then again... we got Tomah with his shirt off for a good deal of the ep, and I am rather shallow this week so I'll let it slide for now.

Echo got to be Faith! That no holds match was awesome, and iy bring another twist to the story.

And Victor and Sierra, was so sad in the beginning, and tragic her handler was behind it all. It was handled nicely though, I like Joss addressed the fact that having so many helpless, attractive people around others who were completely fully aware could lead to Dolls being mistreated. Regardless people who get hired on probably have to jump through hoops to get on the Dollhouse payroll, I had thought of from the beginning it was only a matter of time someone got it in their heads to use a Doll. And the handler caught was definitely not long for this world...

I think the biggest woobie moment I had was when Victor looks plaintively up at Echo and announces he did something wrong with the demeanor of a five year old, and then Echo asks why and he replies they won't tell him.

So yeah, great ep.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

SHADESIREN

Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:22 PM

Definitely the strongest episode yet. Much more interesting - I was finally feeling a connection with characters that I hadn't felt before. Especially Helo. Um.. I mean.. whatever the FBI guy's name is. I was pretty surprised by the neighbor girl, even if I had just begun to suspect just shortly before they revealed. I loved it, when I expected to hate it. REALLY loved what Echo's handler did. Dude ROCKED what started out to be a corny subplot.

And Patton! I love you, dude! You're twice over awesome, thanks to ratatouille, and you being the rat guy again! LOVED the whole idea of his engagement.

You know you want it - http://www.shadesiren.com

You know you need it - http://www.oberonrpg.com

OPPYH

Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:29 PM

Well, it proved one thing:
Joss Whedon still has it.
For the first time since the start of this series...I'm digging it

ASARIAN

Saturday, March 21, 2009 11:46 PM

'Delivered' doesn't even come close to describing Joss' latest creation adequately. The dialogue was constantly sharp, witty -- Jossian in every sense of the words. Every other line I yelled on the inside: "Yes, Joss is back!!" Well, he was never really gone, of course; but this ep had his brilliance written all over it. Honestly, there could be tears.

Speaking of honest, I weren't so sure any more this ep really would be different. But, by Joss, the man came thru!

--
"It's human trafficking. End of story. It's horrific."

CLJOHNSTON108

Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:20 AM

I've liked the show from the beginning, but "Man on the Street" had me whoopin' & hollerin' & shudderin' all the way through!
I burst into tears at the end.

IMDb had tipped me off that Mellie/November was an Active from day one, but the answering machine bit was pure genius!

RIVER6213

Sunday, March 22, 2009 1:40 AM

After watching this episode of Dollhouse I think the show is getting better and better.

-River

PACHELBEL

Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:30 AM

I agree with everyone else - best episode by far. But again, that's not saying much. This episode took a big leap forward in many ways, which makes me question the point of the first 5 episodes. Many have said that this could have been the pilot; I'd have to agree.

I think I have 3 issues/questions associated with this "leap."

1) Where did the impetus for this investigative report come from? Last we saw, no one believed anything Ballard had to say. Next thing we know, channel whoever is doing a "man on the street" investigation into the existence of a dollhouse? The closest I can come to an explanation is the video of Caroline in the cult from the previous episode. But that's a week connection.

2) When did Ballard and his neighbor get to be so chummy? He hadn't given her so much as a second look, and now they're hanging out sharing Chinese food?

3) Echo got away a little too easy. I know Ballard was busy disabling the security guys, but here is this "ghost" he's been obsessively trying to find, and she's quite literally within arms reach. Yet, Boyd just strolls in and takes Echo out of the house. I believe at the time that Ballard was busy strangling one of the security guys on the kitchen island, so he easily could have stopped and cut off Boyd and Echo.

I have to say, Ballard is one tough mother! He gets shot in the stomach (and we all know what a stomach wound can do), but manages to take out 6 guys. He gets tasered and still manages to beat the crap out of several security guys.

KAREL

Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:30 AM

SPOONER

Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:45 AM

i laughed, i cried, and almost pooped pants at how many twists this ep had. so in a word... absolutely

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:46 AM

That line slipped by me the first time, but I caught it the second time around on Hulu.

Badger saying Heart of Gold.......great stuff, Joss's nudge and a wink to us Browncoats. He knows we're watching. Okay, I say we contact Fox and let them know that we're watching.

I'm gonna join the Fox forum to let Fox know that we are out there and supporting Joss. I feel that it's the only way.

SGG

Tawabawho?

ZIGGO

Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:04 PM

It was by far the best episode, but I better not have noticed a big potential plot hole.

Ballard's answering machine now has the trigger phrases for mellie on it, not to mention dewhitt's voice. (sp?)

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:44 PM

Originally posted by pachelbel:

Quote:
The closest I can come to an explanation is the video of Caroline in the cult from the previous episode. But that's a week connection.

I think that's it and maybe a tip-off to the media from Ballard. He had a self satisfying smirk across his face when he was watching it.

Quote:
2) When did Ballard and his neighbor get to be so chummy? He hadn't given her so much as a second look, and now they're hanging out sharing Chinese food?

Well on two seperate occasions now she has shown up with an ALMIGHTY plate of food. Trust me nothing makes a man take notice more than food (well maybe cleavage, but she has that too!) So yeah he most certianly would take notice. Anyway aside from that the 'impetus' that you speak of was in the dialogue exchange between he and the internet mogul guy. Also she's often at her door asking questions about his work when he returns home I don't think it a huge leap to consider them having dinner together.

Quote:
3) Echo got away a little too easy. I know Ballard was busy disabling the security guys, but here is this "ghost" he's been obsessively trying to find, and she's quite literally within arms reach. Yet, Boyd just strolls in and takes Echo out of the house. I believe at the time that Ballard was busy strangling one of the security guys on the kitchen island, so he easily could have stopped and cut off Boyd and Echo.

I don't know, he would have been awfully busy to attempt that given his predicament. I loved the way Boyd just strolled in and waltzed her away, something we've come to expect now. I thought that worked.

Quote:
I have to say, Ballard is one tough mother! He gets shot in the stomach (and we all know what a stomach wound can do), but manages to take out 6 guys. He gets tasered and still manages to beat the crap out of several security guys.

I'm running with the idea that Ballard is Alpha. It's the only way to explain his strength. Also was it episode 3? where he took out the guys in the basement - he held the exact same pose that Alpha held over Echo when we went to flashback. (I'm just saying... keep an eye out)

As has been said- THE BEST EPISODE so far. Written by Joss and Directed By David Staiton. I find Joss' writing works best if he doesn't direct. This one was the case.

Anyone else itching for a showdown between Ballard and Boyd?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:45 PM

Originally posted by Ziggo:

Quote:
Ballard's answering machine now has the trigger phrases for mellie on it, not to mention dewhitt's voice. (sp?)

I should think that intentional no?

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:45 PM

Does anyone think there might be more to Topher than there seems to be? I'm still trying to figure out how even Alpha could have gotten the frequency for the wipe a couple episodes back... And the only thing I can come up with is help from someone in the know on the inside.

He comes across as completely arrogant and immoral. That seems like someone Joss might give an entirely unexpected twist later on. There's no evidence for it right now, of course, Topher would have to be an extremely good actor to pull this off if it were true.

I'm just not sure I believe all the glitching with the actives recently, both imprinted and in their blank slate, could be all coincidence. Nor do I fully understand why Alpha might have gone haywire. The only connection between Alpha and the glitching is Topher.

Was Echo telling Ballard about Alpha? Why would DeWitt want to tip Ballard off about Alpha's existence? Was she off program (or maybe, depending on this Topher theory, on program)?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:08 PM

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Quote:
Does anyone think there might be more to Topher than there seems to be? I'm still trying to figure out how even Alpha could have gotten the frequency for the wipe a couple episodes back... And the only thing I can come up with is help from someone in the know on the inside.

I'm not getting that from Topher I must admit, but as to who else it could be... It's tricky. Hard to determine just who this person on the inside might be, it could all just be a smoke screen to keep Ballard away. However upon the revelation that there are many other Dollhouses it now opens up the possibility of one of those as being capable. They would have the technology to tap into frequencies etc. Maybe they have a better genius than Topher tucked away somewhere or better still they have his abilities implanted into an active with a little extra thrown in... The posssiblities are infinite. Guess that's why the show is coming alive now. It's great!

Quote:
I'm just not sure I believe all the glitching with the actives recently, both imprinted and in their blank slate, could be all coincidence. Nor do I fully understand why Alpha might have gone haywire. The only connection between Alpha and the glitching is Topher.

That's true Topher is the link I guess.... Hmmm Is he not too obvious though. Could he really pull it off, he is in such a precarious position were things to go wrong, and what would his motivation be...?

Quote:
Was Echo telling Ballard about Alpha? Why would DeWitt want to tip Ballard off about Alpha's existence? Was she off program (or maybe, depending on this Topher theory, on program)?

I'm inclined to think it's a diversionary tactic, to make sure Ballard doesn't persist with things too much. i.e. interupt engagements and therefore cost the Dollhouse money and cause unwanted exposure.

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 7:24 PM

I have two theories as to who the mole could be. First is Dr. Saunders, who has an understandable beef with the workings of the Dollhouse. The second, with less revealed motivation but greater means, is the cute lab assistant, Ivy. It could be neither of them, but they're the only ones I've been able to think of. Boyd might be in cahoots, but clearly wasn't the one tinkering with the program.
The most fantastical part of my brain suspects it might be DeWitt herself. I'm still puzzling over some of her motivations...

[/sig]

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ziggo:
It was by far the best episode, but I better not have noticed a big potential plot hole.

Ballard's answering machine now has the trigger phrases for mellie on it, not to mention dewhitt's voice. (sp?)

Yes that will be... entertaining.

As for Alpha, I think its Starbuck. After all, she did die and reappeared then disappeared, like Jesus. Wash is just a red herring?

"Arrrg! He's gonna go drain the seamonster."
-Pirate Wash, Dodgeball

CEDRIC

Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:27 PM

Quote:
I have two theories as to who the mole could be. First is Dr. Saunders, who has an understandable beef with the workings of the Dollhouse. The second, with less revealed motivation but greater means, is the cute lab assistant, Ivy.

My first pick is Ivy. She's easily overlooked but clearly involved in the tech. And how is Topher supposed to notice anything she does when she runs around in lace stockings?

My wife favors Dr. Saunders, who I must admit is a strong candidate.

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

BYTEMITE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:31 PM

If Ballard doesn't start to question how Mellie took out a trained professional assassin who had been sent to kill her, I will really start to question his intelligence.

DeWitt is also a possible candidate, if only because some of her decisions seem so inscrutable and because, being that she's in charge of the dollhouse, she seems least likely to want to sabotage it, and would be the most surprising reveal. I guess it's all about what's the best story to tell, and that's the one no one ever sees coming.

ASARIAN

Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pachelbel:
1) Where did the impetus for this investigative report come from? Last we saw, no one believed anything Ballard had to say. Next thing we know, channel whoever is doing a "man on the street" investigation into the existence of a dollhouse? The closest I can come to an explanation is the video of Caroline in the cult from the previous episode. But that's a week connection.

When the technical knowhow for something like Dollhouse becomes available, it's not just born out of thin air. Which is to say, scientists all over the world must have been working on manipulating thought, the brain, memory imprints, and what not; and must have been very close, too. It's not like boy-wonder Topher just took mankind's technology a century forward by his own self alone. So, when something is that close to being invented (or has already been, but in secret), you can bet the world is already talking about it, with ethicists speculating about all its possible ramifications, etc. Just like on the show. So, a cunningly clever tip-off from one very persistent mofo called Ballard could certainly spike a news item.

Quote:

2) When did Ballard and his neighbor get to be so chummy? He hadn't given her so much as a second look, and now they're hanging out sharing Chinese food?

'Next episode' doesn't necessarily equate to 'next day.' She keeps catering to his ego; and as an Active, she may either be programmed with the knowledge how to get to him, or was simply chosen because they know she's his type, and they are likely to get it on. At any rate, I don't have an issue with leaving some developments to the imagination: like how they got better acquainted.

Quote:

3) Echo got away a little too easy. I know Ballard was busy disabling the security guys, but here is this "ghost" he's been obsessively trying to find, and she's quite literally within arms reach. Yet, Boyd just strolls in and takes Echo out of the house. I believe at the time that Ballard was busy strangling one of the security guys on the kitchen island, so he easily could have stopped and cut off Boyd and Echo.

In earnest, you have a point here. When they were emptying that vault, Echo got away a wee too easy as well. Perhaps 'plausible extraction of an Active' is something that still needs a little work. :)

Quote:

I have to say, Ballard is one tough mother! He gets shot in the stomach (and we all know what a stomach wound can do), but manages to take out 6 guys. He gets tasered and still manages to beat the crap out of several security guys.

Well, unless his stomach is mysteriously located to the right-side of his body, that weren't his stomach. :) And it's not like he didn't get medical treatment (like Mal).

All-in-all, lemme just take the opportunity again to express what a brilliant show this was! The dialogue was superb, really. Nearly every other line was quotable; remind you of something? :) It had so many subtleties, like Adelle telling the rapist, "You may even consider it something of a promotion; after all, this one will probably struggle." You think she's being sarcastic -- and that's the irony, as Mellie really does struggle! And then some! Speaking of struggle, I also thought the fights were among the best I've ever seen.

Best ep of 'em all. And it does indeed make you wonder what the point of the first 5 was.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
it does indeed make you wonder what the point of the first 5 was.

Network pandering.

[/sig]

ASARIAN

Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
Quote:
I have two theories as to who the mole could be. First is Dr. Saunders, who has an understandable beef with the workings of the Dollhouse. The second, with less revealed motivation but greater means, is the cute lab assistant, Ivy.

My first pick is Ivy.

Poison Ivy, eh? Nah! It can't be her! She's just too pretty! :)

Quote:

And how is Topher supposed to notice anything she does when she runs around in lace stockings?

Topher doesn't seem to notice her at all. He ain't quite right.

Quote:

My wife favors Dr. Saunders, who I must admit is a strong candidate.

The guy we saw stick the photo of Caroline in the envelope was, well, a guy! :) So, can't be Dr. Saunders, either.

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
Quote:
I have two theories as to who the mole could be. First is Dr. Saunders, who has an understandable beef with the workings of the Dollhouse. The second, with less revealed motivation but greater means, is the cute lab assistant, Ivy.

My first pick is Ivy.

Poison Ivy, eh? Nah! It can't be her! She's just too pretty! :)

So was River.

Quote:

The guy we saw stick the photo of Caroline in the envelope was, well, a guy! :) So, can't be Dr. Saunders, either.

Saunders could be the mole within the organization. We're not talking about Alpha.
I do have I certain theory on that, which involves us not having seen Alpha yet; the guy we see sticking the photo of Caroline in the envelope is a doll, programmed by Alpha as an intermediary. Though I've no doubt Alpha is male, being consistently referred to as 'he' by the employees of the Dollhouse, I don't think he's been seen yet. But that's my theory; I've already expounded upon it in various places over at Shiny Universe.
Anyway, we were talking about the mole? Who do you think it is?

[/sig]

KWICKO

Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:10 PM

YESSSS!!!!

FINALLY!

HELL FREAKING YES, IT DELIVERED! And not a moment too soon. I was watching it only because (a) it was the last thing on my DVR, and I didn't want to watch basketball, and (b) it's Joss, so I've given it a LOT of leeway. Seriously, I was ready to write the show off, figuring Joss had overreached and failed. There hasn't been a single episode where I cared one whit about any of these people, really - UNTIL NOW! Now I'm hooked. My wife and I were both, at the end of the episode, after watching the previews for next week, looking at each other in shock: "I can't wait for next week! Damn - that looks like it's going to be GOOD!!"

So Joss, ya bastich, you got me again.

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".

ASARIAN

Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Poison Ivy, eh? Nah! It can't be her! She's just too pretty! :)

So was River.

Touché.

Quote:

Quote:

The guy we saw stick the photo of Caroline in the envelope was, well, a guy! :) So, can't be Dr. Saunders, either.

Saunders could be the mole within the organization. We're not talking about Alpha.

Hmm, I thought they were one and the same. But, yeah, if not, then it really could be Ivy (*snif*). Or Dr. Saunders, yes: most folks develop a rational dislike towards organizations that get your face slashed. And as a Doctor she's gotta have some moral issues with the whole deal, too (especially since she's so kind-hearted). But let's not discount Boyd, either, then. He has 'disapproval' written all over his face, constantly.

Quote:

I do have I certain theory on that, which involves us not having seen Alpha yet; the guy we see sticking the photo of Caroline in the envelope is a doll, programmed by Alpha as an intermediary.

Could be that's true. And if he knows how to 'remote wipe,' then it stands to reason he can use that same 56k modem signal to 'remote upload,' too. Scary stuff.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:37 PM

The mole and Alpha could not possibly be one and the same. Number one, it was blatantly stated that this was the first contact the mole was having with Ballard, as well as being stated that the program was tampered with to add this parameter. The program was likely tampered with while Boyd was talking to Topher, making him a strong candidate for being in cahoots, as I said, but impossible that he was the one doing the actual tinkering. Whoever it was is inside the Dollhouse, with means and ability to get into the programming, which is why my suspicions fall strongly on Ivy.

As for remote upload, I don't think it's entirely remote.

This, if I'm right, is Alpha's version of the imprint chair. Go to http://www.shinyuniverse.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=880#shiny for the potentially spoilish image on which I initially based my theory.

*edit*

Quote:
Originally posted by pachelbel:
I believe at the time that Ballard was busy strangling one of the security guys on the kitchen island, so he easily could have stopped and cut off Boyd and Echo.

Actually, as I'm currently rewatching it, Ballard is being strangled by one of the security guys when Echo is pulled out of the kitchen, making it rather difficult for him to leave off at that moment.

I did find myself wondering about DeWitt's voice on the answering machine as well. I wonder if that will lead anywhere? For now, I'm assuming there's a bit in Mellie's program that tells her to delete the message. Might be weak, but if they can trigger her to snap a man's neck, surely they can build in a trigger to push a button.

[/sig]

RAHLMACLAREN

Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:17 PM

Finally, a Dollhouse ep that didn't threaten to put me asleep! (Ok, last week's ep wasn't *that* bad.)

Not only was "Man On The Street" the best Dollhouse ep (so far?), it felt like it might turn out to be one of those BIG classic Jossverse episodes. Maybe on par with Ariel.

Turns out this is my kind of party!

And PhoenixRose:
I think one of my old CRT monitors is in that screenshot.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

ECGORDON

Monday, March 23, 2009 2:53 AM

Ivy, Dr. Saunders and Adelle DeWitt are the most likely candidates for being the mole. Which is why I don't think it is either one of them. I'm leaning toward it being Topher himself. He is more than likely the most knowledgeable about the system and able to cover his tracks.

PACHELBEL

Monday, March 23, 2009 3:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
The mole and Alpha could not possibly be one and the same. Number one, it was blatantly stated that this was the first contact the mole was having with Ballard, as well as being stated that the program was tampered with to add this parameter. The program was likely tampered with while Boyd was talking to Topher, making him a strong candidate for being in cahoots, as I said, but impossible that he was the one doing the actual tinkering. Whoever it was is inside the Dollhouse, with means and ability to get into the programming, which is why my suspicions fall strongly on Ivy.

As for remote upload, I don't think it's entirely remote.

This, if I'm right, is Alpha's version of the imprint chair. Go to http://www.shinyuniverse.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=880#shiny for the potentially spoilish image on which I initially based my theory.

*edit*
Quote:
Originally posted by pachelbel:
I believe at the time that Ballard was busy strangling one of the security guys on the kitchen island, so he easily could have stopped and cut off Boyd and Echo.

Actually, as I'm currently rewatching it, Ballard is being strangled by one of the security guys when Echo is pulled out of the kitchen, making it rather difficult for him to leave off at that moment.

I did find myself wondering about DeWitt's voice on the answering machine as well. I wonder if that will lead anywhere? For now, I'm assuming there's a bit in Mellie's program that tells her to delete the message. Might be weak, but if they can trigger her to snap a man's neck, surely they can build in a trigger to push a button.

[/sig]

Wow. I thought Ballard was doing the strangling! So, yes, it would be difficult for him to leave then.

It was a lucky thing that Dewitt got through to Ballard's apartment phone before Ballard got through on his cell phone, huh?

Isn't it a bad thing for the Dollhouse to have a dead handler in and FBI guy's apartment?

ASARIAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 3:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
The mole and Alpha could not possibly be one and the same. Number one, it was blatantly stated that this was the first contact the mole was having with Ballard, as well as being stated that the program was tampered with to add this parameter. The program was likely tampered with while Boyd was talking to Topher, making him a strong candidate for being in cahoots, as I said, but impossible that he was the one doing the actual tinkering. Whoever it was is inside the Dollhouse, with means and ability to get into the programming, which is why my suspicions fall strongly on Ivy.

Watching it again, I think it's Ivy now, too, LOL. First off, we hear her suggest something incredibly smart to Topher about inhibitors or some such, indicating (to us) that she's qualified to do a whole lot more than just getting Topher's food. Then Topher is being interrupted by Boyd, and when he comes back, the camera is focussed on the 'tape' in such a way that suggests it may have been changed or tampered with in his absence. That would really only leave Ivy.

Topher himself, gotta say, is not above suspicion, either. Ask yourself, why is he so nervous when Boyd drops in? (In a nervous manner) Topher says something like: "Hey.. Boyd, I was just doing my..." Like Boyd would give a shit about his geek stuff (let alone understand it). But a Topher feeling guilty over what he's in the middle of doing might react just like that.

*edit* Also, Topher, quasi-nonchalant, asks Boyd how he 'made' the perp; whether it was a cop-thing or something. Again, a guilty Topher might be nervous about that, worried that Boyd might get to him that way, too.

Just sayin'.

Anyway, thanks PhoenixRose for giving me a reason to go watch it again. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:12 AM

I find the upside-down "AnGER" written on that base of the imprinting chair has a certain aesthetic appeal, wouldn't you, PhoenixRose? Great find. :)

PHOENIXROSE

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:14 AM

Hmmm, I thought Topher sounded more annoyed than anything, saying "I'm in my process..." in a rather exasperated manner. Also, when he comes back, the previously closed door is ajar. That could be misdirection, I suppose. And you're right, he seemed a little nervous asking Boyd if it was a cop thing, but Topher often seems charged with nervous energy, so I only gave it passing notice. Guess now I'll just have to watch it again, see if any hints for Topher being the mole pop out at me.

One other thing, though, I'm remembering Echo saying "We have a person on the inside." rather than the more common phrase, "We have a man on the inside." Am I wrong? Well, still more reason to watch again...

*edit* Yes, it's a glorious set all around, rich with detail. One of the many reasons I love Joss shows!

[/sig]

ASARIAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Also, when he comes back, the previously closed door is ajar. That could be misdirection, I suppose. Guess now I'll just have to watch it again, see if any hints for Topher being the mole pop out at me.

Well, I just thought of another one (see my *edit*). And I didn't even notice the door, doh.

Quote:

One other thing, though, I'm remembering Echo saying "We have a person on the inside." rather than the more common phrase, "We have a man on the inside." Am I wrong? Well, still more reason to watch again...

Yes, she did say that. Though, in all fairness, even had she said man, I think "We have a man on the inside." is just a generic phrase, like you say, and could well refer to a woman, too.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PHOENIXROSE

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:31 AM

Ah, but it's not generic, it's common, there is a distinction
At the time the phrase originated, it was a man on the inside, pretty much exclusively. Often, when using the archaic phrase to refer to a woman, a correction would shortly follow. Maybe it's not significant, but it sprang to my mind.

And I saw your edit, and my post was shortly edited accordingly. I thought I was fast enough no one would notice, hehe.

[/sig]

ASARIAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 4:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Often, when using the archaic phrase to refer to a woman, a correction would shortly follow. Maybe it's not significant, but it sprang to my mind.

English not being my native tongue, I'll take your word for it.

Quote:

And I saw your edit, and my post was shortly edited accordingly. I thought I was fast enough no one would notice, hehe.

And I guess I was just a mite too late to see your edit 'bout my edit. :) These things happen.

I'll go check out your ShinyUniverse thread now (though I'm not all that comfortable navigating ShinyUniverse yet). But it certainly looks like you found a gem or two. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

PHOENIXROSE

Monday, March 23, 2009 5:14 AM

Truly, there is a LOT of stuff on Shiny Universe, and it can be difficult to navigate all the myriad stuff. Also truly, I've found some golden nuggets

English isn't your native tongue? I wouldn't have guessed that, and if I at any point knew that, I'd forgotten, sorry about that. What is?

[/sig]

ASARIAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 7:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I did find myself wondering about DeWitt's voice on the answering machine as well. I wonder if that will lead anywhere? For now, I'm assuming there's a bit in Mellie's program that tells her to delete the message. Might be weak, but if they can trigger her to snap a man's neck, surely they can build in a trigger to push a button.

Not that weak, really. Or maybe the 'unsafe' word (to paraphrase Simon) only works once. But yeah, she's likely programmed to erase it. Otherwise, I wonder what happens when she, oh, goes shopping with her mom or something, and she decides to quickly play her messages again before they leave the house? Could get messy. :)

Quote:

Actually, as I'm currently rewatching it, Ballard is being strangled by one of the security guys when Echo is pulled out of the kitchen, making it rather difficult for him to leave off at that moment.

Yeah. And I kinda withdraw my earlier objection in that regard. In fact, he was so pre-occupied, I now think it should probably have surprised him even that she was gone, after the fight. Still, Boyd waltzing in all the time. pulling a near Deus ex Machina, really is pushing the envelope a bit. But then again, there were a lot of men in the house, and Ballard doesn't know Boyd from Adam, either; so to him (should he have even noticed it with whatever eye he could spare at the time) it may just have looked like one of the security folks was getting the missus out of harm's way.

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
English isn't your native tongue? I wouldn't have guessed that, and if I at any point knew that, I'd forgotten, sorry about that. What is?

It's Dutch, actually. Great language! Unfortunately, it don't get you very far in this crap hill 'Verse. :) So, English it is.

P.S. Echo, aka Rebecca, going on about hubby being in porn was hi-frakkin-larious. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

ZEEK

Monday, March 23, 2009 6:30 PM

Topher is nervous when talking to Boyd because he's lying to him about Echo's engagement. He knows they're sending Echo out to fight/kill Ballard and he tells Boyd that they're sending her to some doctor to do something non-violent. He's obviously been ordered to keep this information from Boyd so he's nervous.

I don't see why people think this technology is so advanced that only Topher could know how to use it. There are 20 or more dollhouses and the news reporter says the rumors date back to the late 80's. Which means the tech was there long before Topher. If anything he's just been trained to use it. He didn't develop it. Which means just about anyone in the Dollhouse could have gained access to the information needed to program a Doll. Plus once someone knows how to program a Doll they don't need to be anywhere near that room to do it. They can just program a Doll to do their bidding while they distract Topher. Meaning Boyd is not ruled out by any means. Right now I'd focus more on motive than means.

PHOENIXROSE

Monday, March 23, 2009 7:27 PM

I think having access to the computer in some way is still necessary for programming, so unless you're suggesting that Boyd could telepathically tamper with the imprint while he was talking to Topher, I really don't think it was Boyd.
Clearly, Topher isn't the only one ever who can use this technology, but it's also clearly more than just point-and-click, it's a science which must be learned and comprehended. My suspicions therefore fall more strongly on the scientists, highly trained, and long-term employees within the Dollhouse. Such as, say, Ivy, Dr. Saunders, DeWitt... gosh, I feel somehow like I'm repeating myself.

[/sig]

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 23, 2009 7:58 PM

Well, and plus, there is that whole freak-out that Topher has about who could've snagged their frequencies.

I'll admit that he would have to be a REALLY good actor to be faking that.

But anyway. In his freak-out, he ultimately concludes that no one else besides himself or Alpha could do that, including his counterpart in a Japanese dollhouse. And while he's a pretty arrogant guy (unless it's an act), he goes through all the other candidates so methodically before giving a reason for dismissing them that I'm inclined to believe him when he says he's the best.

I don't know what significance that has on him being the mole, if any. Just my take on it.

But no, I also agree that people besides Topher could possibly learn how to do it.

ZEEK

Monday, March 23, 2009 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I think having access to the computer in some way is still necessary for programming, so unless you're suggesting that Boyd could telepathically tamper with the imprint while he was talking to Topher, I really don't think it was Boyd.

No I'm suggesting if you can program a Doll then you can program one to mess with programming when you're out of the room. 2 + 2 = 4

It also actually looked exactly point and clickish when Topher was making his program. He may have needed training to know what to put together, but still he was just pointing and clicking.

They're obviously able to train new employees to program dolls. Which means there's documentation somewhere. If someone got access to that and studied then they can program dolls.

RHYIANAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 9:23 PM

Honestly, I don't know why everyone thinks that there is a mole. My read on the situation is that Echo was sent by Dewitt to do exactly what she did...convince Ballard to do things more quietly and misdirect him, eventually tipping him off to the attack on Mellie, which will be another thing that will get him to stop being as vocal. I see Echo taking over the role that Victor had played, giving Ballard fake information that he'll take as being credible. I may be wrong (Joss does tend to pull things out of nowhere), but that's the way things seemed to be put out in a rather straightforward fashion.

Also, Dewitt knows that Echo's remembering things, which could lead to her having a composite event like Alpha, but there didn't seem to be much of a reaction to the knowledge. I can't tell you how glad I am that the formulaic "Echo knows something" wasn't repeated. The first time it happened was a holy crap moment (shoulder to the wheel), but every time after that was a bit tedious. This one, while demonstrating that she knows something she shouldn't, was more natural and brings up the fact that Dewitt is aware that she remembers, which may have interesting consequences.

I'm a leaf on the wind

KHAMBILO

Monday, March 23, 2009 10:19 PM

yeah. Adelle, from previous episodes, has shown us that she would be very put off if something like Alpha were to happen again.

Yet throughout "Man in the Street" her behavior is irrational. She sends a rogue handler to take a Doll and then interrupts it by activating some imbedded killing skills in Mellie. Thus we have a dead ex-handler in a FBI agent's apartment with a Doll. It's Irractional for her to make that decision.

And at the end she knows that Echo remembers.

My thoughts: Adelle is aware in the imperfections of Dollhouse. However with the reveal of multiple dollhouses, it is my belief the Adelle is seeking to make her Dollhouse independent. Echo may be the key to doing this. I don't think she's in on it with Alpha, but she knows Alpha and is using his anger and his particular fixation with Echo to achieve her own ends.

One thing is sure though: There is is most definately more to Adelle than meets the eye.

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 23, 2009 10:28 PM

Actually, the "Echo remembers something" moment was repeated. The picture she was painting was the house of the internet mogul.

DMI

Monday, March 23, 2009 11:25 PM

Definitely the best Dollhouse episode yet. Just got around to seeing it last night because I watched the Battlestar finale (a great end to one of the greatest scifi shows of all time) on friday night.

Dollhouse doesn't compare to shows like Firefly, Battlestar, or the better Trek eps yet but, this was a huge step in the right direction and after the solid performance from the week before that, I'd say the show has hit it's stride. As for mole theories, I think its the lady at the top, the one in charge with the accent. She seemed a little bit worried when the rapist brought up how they're in the business of using people and if someone is sucked in and can't get out, it's her.
-e

A blog on the struggles of an unpublished writer: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

RHYIANAN

Monday, March 23, 2009 11:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Actually, the "Echo remembers something" moment was repeated. The picture she was painting was the house of the internet mogul.

Yes, but it was handled differently than just throwing it out there at the end of the episode, using it for the shock value that after the first time, ceases to be a shock. That is what I meant. It is apparent that she remembers, referring to the uncompleted engagement when she says "it's not finished", as Dewitt notices.

It was the treatment of the remembering that I was referring to when I said "Echo remembers something" moment, not that she doesn't remember anything at the end of the episode, which is why I used the word formulaic at the beginning of the phrase.

I'm a leaf on the wind

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 23, 2009 11:45 PM

Whoa, wait, are you saying that last sequence was DeWitt sending her back?

That did not occur to me. o.o

SHINYGOODGUY

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:04 AM

Yep, I think so. Remember at the beginning in the tape of Caroline, she keeps saying how she wants to make a difference. Well, I think that's coming through in Echo's behavior. For some reason DeWitt admires that quality (her adaptability and her wanting to make a difference I mean) in Echo and she sent her back.

Echo also helped Sierra by alerting Boyd to the fact that she would cry in her pod. I think that DeWitt could very well be that mole on the inside that is looking to bring down the DH. For one thing she's keeping him alive. Second, I believe she sent that message (through Echo) for him to keep away, for now.

Someone on this thread mentioned the phone message to the sleeper active in Ballard's apt. Remember he is being monitored by DeWitt, I'm sure that she has the technology available to her that will keep her voice from being recorded.

Like I said, this is getting good.

SGG

Tawabawho?

RHYIANAN

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:14 AM

Yes, the last sequence is Dewitt sending her back. Echo says that it isn't finished, then Dewitt asks her if she wants it to be finished, both referring to the uncompleted engagement. When Echo repeats that it isn't finished, she is indicating that it needs to be, at least in her own mind, so Dewitt sends her back.

I'm a leaf on the wind

ZEEK

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:40 PM

Isn't Millie in her apartment when she gets attacked? Why do people keep saying she's in Ballard's apartment? I don't think the answering machine is much of a problem. If it's Millie's apartment then the answering machine could be designed to auto delete messages from Dewitt or Millie could just be programmed to delete them herself. If it's Ballard's apartment then that's a little different.

I'll have to go back and look for details of which apartment she's in at some point.

Even if Dewitt isn't the mole there's still something going on with her and Ballard. Why would she leave him alive? Before I wanted to say that killing the FBI agent investigating the Dollhouse might only serve to increase the FBI's interest in the case. Now that he's off the case there's no real reason to leave him alive.

PHOENIXROSE

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
if you can program a Doll then you can program one to mess with programming when you're out of the room.

That still leaves the problem of initial programming. Everything (or nearly everything) is monitored in the Dollhouse. Illicit programs can't be a simple thing to sneak.

I can agree the theory that there is no mole and it's just Ballard being messed with is a sound one, but that seems so much less interesting to me. Kind of a let down. Though, it is Joss, and he's made a lot of things palatable that I might not have been able to stomach in less skilled hands.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Isn't Millie in her apartment when she gets attacked? Why do people keep saying she's in Ballard's apartment?

Because she'd just gotten it on with Ballard in his apartment, and was wandering around his apartment in nothing but one of his shirts waiting for him to get back with spring rolls so they could eat and go over his case files, also presumably located in his apartment, and Mellie is being thrown around a distinctly masculine decor of his apartment. Oh, and when the answering machine picks up it's Ballard's voice that says "Leave a message."

[/sig]

SAB39

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I think having access to the computer in some way is still necessary for programming, so unless you're suggesting that Boyd could telepathically tamper with the imprint while he was talking to Topher, I really don't think it was Boyd.

I assumed Boyd was cooperating with the mole by distracting Topher so that the mole could tamper with Echo's program.

Which makes Saunders the mole, in my opinion.

RIVERDANCER

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:07 AM

In cahoots, cooperating, same dif. Sounds like the three of us agree on Boyd's role, at least. I'm having trouble picking a favorite on who did the actual tampering, though.

ASARIAN

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Honestly, I don't know why everyone thinks that there is a mole. My read on the situation is that Echo was sent by Dewitt to do exactly what she did... convince Ballard to do things more quietly and misdirect him, eventually tipping him off to the attack on Mellie, which will be another thing that will get him to stop being as vocal. I see Echo taking over the role that Victor had played, giving Ballard fake information that he'll take as being credible. I may be wrong (Joss does tend to pull things out of nowhere), but that's the way things seemed to be put out in a rather straightforward fashion.

I ain't saying it ain't true. After all, there's no better way to control a resistance movement than to fake that movement yourself (I'm thinking '1984', the book, for instance). But it's also taking an incredible risk: tell a tenacious mofo like Ballard that the Dollhouse is real, and he'll never let go, ever, as in never.

Quote:
Originally posted by RiverDancer:
In cahoots, cooperating, same dif. Sounds like the three of us agree on Boyd's role, at least. I'm having trouble picking a favorite on who did the actual tampering, though.

Boyd is a smart cookie; but he's street smart, ex-cop. I honestly don't see him as a computer wiz (unless that's part of his cover; but then, by that token, just about everyone qualifies). Also, as stated, there's cameras everywhere. Ivy, in that regard, is the only one who can hang around the place without drawing attention to herself. And has the intellectual and technical wherewithall to pull it off. She could easily slip in a new tape without anyone noticing. Adelle, on the other hand, is brass; she'd have to come all the way down in her wee elevator to get to Topher's office (if I got the layout right). Same goes for Dr. Saunders (she's on the ground level, no?).

My money is still on Ivy -- in more than one way. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

ECGORDON

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I find the upside-down "AnGER" written on that base of the imprinting chair has a certain aesthetic appeal, wouldn't you, PhoenixRose? Great find. :)

You missed a letter. The word is DANGER.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 1:47 PM

Ah, I misinterpretted that as an ampersand, and since it didn't have any immediate meaning to me in relation to the rest of the word, I threw it out.

RHYIANAN

Wednesday, March 25, 2009 9:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Honestly, I don't know why everyone thinks that there is a mole. My read on the situation is that Echo was sent by Dewitt to do exactly what she did... convince Ballard to do things more quietly and misdirect him, eventually tipping him off to the attack on Mellie, which will be another thing that will get him to stop being as vocal. I see Echo taking over the role that Victor had played, giving Ballard fake information that he'll take as being credible. I may be wrong (Joss does tend to pull things out of nowhere), but that's the way things seemed to be put out in a rather straightforward fashion.

I ain't saying it ain't true. After all, there's no better way to control a resistance movement than to fake that movement yourself (I'm thinking '1984', the book, for instance). But it's also taking an incredible risk: tell a tenacious mofo like Ballard that the Dollhouse is real, and he'll never let go, ever, as in never.

But do you think he would let the dollhouse go even if nobody ever told him it was real? He got shot and it didn't even phase him. Honestly, I don't think he ever would have stopped either way. At least with Echo feeding him information, he's under dollhouse control, less likely to make a ruckus, believing that he is helping to work the system from the inside. It's safer for them if he believes he is making a difference, even if all he is really doing is running in place taking the crumbs they throw him. However, if the rumors are true and

Select to view spoiler:

Echo & co regain memories and she leads a breakout in ep 8,

then Ballard won't be lead around in circles for very long.

I'm a leaf on the wind

ASARIAN

Thursday, March 26, 2009 7:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by Rhyianan:
Honestly, I don't know why everyone thinks that there is a mole. My read on the situation is that Echo was sent by Dewitt to do exactly what she did... convince Ballard to do things more quietly and misdirect him, eventually tipping him off to the attack on Mellie, which will be another thing that will get him to stop being as vocal. I see Echo taking over the role that Victor had played, giving Ballard fake information that he'll take as being credible. I may be wrong (Joss does tend to pull things out of nowhere), but that's the way things seemed to be put out in a rather straightforward fashion.

I ain't saying it ain't true. After all, there's no better way to control a resistance movement than to fake that movement yourself (I'm thinking '1984', the book, for instance). But it's also taking an incredible risk: tell a tenacious mofo like Ballard that the Dollhouse is real, and he'll never let go, ever, as in never.

But do you think he would let the dollhouse go even if nobody ever told him it was real? He got shot and it didn't even phase him. Honestly, I don't think he ever would have stopped either way. At least with Echo feeding him information, he's under dollhouse control, less likely to make a ruckus, believing that he is helping to work the system from the inside. It's safer for them if he believes he is making a difference, even if all he is really doing is running in place taking the crumbs they throw him. However, if the rumors are true and
Select to view spoiler:
Echo & co regain memories and she leads a breakout in ep 8,
then Ballard won't be lead around in circles for very long.

I kinda liked the idea of a mole. :) But you make a cogent case against it. And no, I don't think Ballard would really back off, regardless.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam