Laurasaurus Ingraham
POSTED BY: MalBadInLatin
UPDATED: Thursday, March 26, 2009 20:08
VIEWED: 14432
PAGE 2 of 3
Yeah,I don't get why any moron would say we have an army built for wounding the enemy.
Lame.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Iraq, not Vietnam, numb nutz
Sorry, but the 5.56x45 round that the M16 uses came into widespread use in the Viet Nam war, not the Iraq war. There's been some widespread call for a heavier round by the troops in Iraq, precisely BECAUSE the 5.56 (.223) round doesn't do an adequate job of killing, in their eyes, but merely wounds - which is by design.
Oh, and U.S. troops using the M16 are still trained and qualified on the rifle at ranges out to 500 yards, so that smaller bullet doesn't really lose range; if anything, it has a range advantage over the 7.62x39mm AK-47 round, which tends to be far less effective at ranges over 100 yards. So it's not like the M16 rounds are less likely to cause damage in an urban environment - they're just less likely to KILL, which is rather the point of them.
Granted, the "shoot to wound" philosophy is only effective in man-on-man shooting engagements, or in head-on infantry rifle battles. You're correct that howitzers, tanks, and bombs aren't intended to wound - they're quite a bit better at getting your opponent to leave an area!
Oh, another advantage of wounding your opponent? Psychological. Seeing men come home with horrific injuries can be rather demoralizing...
Mike
A baby seal walks into a club...
The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".
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OK, General. 
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:Since you can't reason and you wouldn't know justice if it bought you a drink.... How in god's name can you claim to be "for" either one?????
Someone has to stand up for reason and justice. Count me as one of them.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Did you say free drinks?
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Man, for someone who's too chicken-shit to sign up AURight-back-behind-the-lines sure seems to think he knows a lot about military tactics.
No proper military has a primary goal of killing. Anti-Tank rounds (they're not shells, they're usually kinetic kill these days) aren't used to kill the crew, they're designed to disable the tank. Often that can't be done without killing the crew, but the objective is to disable the tank. Most of the time when a plane is brought down, it's done in a way that allows the pilot to eject. This is by design, because the enemy has to expend resources retrieving the pilot, and if you capture them they're valuable intelligence gathering resources.
Only someone who is truly ignorant of real military tactics and goals could make the sort of statements AUReichsLover does. The goal of a military is to destroy the enemies ability to make war. Killing is not part of the primary goal, it might be a way of achieving it at times, but it isn't a goal of the military.
Well, it might be for certain people. The paramilitary SS were certainly all about the mass murder. AU might indeed see the primary goal of the military to violently racially cleanse the enemy...
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Did you say free drinks?
I'll drink to that!
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Rapo.... Look, I know you probably feel like you're surrounded by enemies but there's a REASON for it. And if you had an iota of self-reflection, of reasoning ability, you might ask yourself (not us, I wouldn't expect that) "Why? Why do so many people disagree with me?
Contrary to what you might tell yourself, not everyone here is am ivory-tower fuzzy-headed librul who doesn't know the world is dangerous. Some of us are not college graduates. Some of us have lived in dangerous neighborhoods. Some of us have been in the military, or experienced terrorism or war first-hand. Some of us own a gun and are prepared to use it. I dare say that many of us have experienced as much danger and fear as you, if not more. We know its a rough world.
So why would so many people, of such diverse backgrounds, disagree with you so strongly?
Believe it or not, in a instance of supreme irony that only a careless universe could arrange, Finn posted the answer.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:I know you weren't talking to me...but this is a microcosm of Conservia in exile. In relative disgrace, they have to sit alongside comparatively powerful Democrats hoping to chime in with something authoratative. If they don't catch a lucky break...thier only option is a maneuver children use in times of sparse attention...they go for negative attention, in this case, phony outrage. The more people who legitimize phony outrage with attention, the better the conservative feels.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo.... Look, I know you probably feel like you're surrounded by enemies but there's a REASON for it. And if you had an iota of self-reflection, of reasoning ability, you might ask yourself (not us, I wouldn't expect that) "Why? Why do so many people disagree with me?
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Funny thing about that particular military philosophy - one of the many reasons for my eventual incompatibility with regular military service was that I simply do not ascribe to, and initially could not even comprehend, that philosophy.
Someone actually had to TELL me we weren't supposed to cut the throats of downed enemy troops who likely didn't know enough to bother dragging back for interrogation - to which my initial reaction was stunned incomprehension, not because of any innate bloodthirst or meanness, but simply cause it did not occur whatever to me to not do it.
I tend to not initiate violence, personally, but when it comes TO violence, I have a strong inclination to finish the job as thoroughly as possible, that being one reason for using a self defense weapon that only holds five shots in the first place, cause once it starts, it don't stop till the slide locks back and I really don't want to have to explain shooting a grounded opponent to a jury.
He gets all five standing, though.
Reason I mention this is BECAUSE the army spent so much time trying to pound that philosophy detailed above into my thick head, there's no way to say it isn't their operational objective.
Oh, and this just for you Siggy, I'll PM it to you to make sure, but imma post it here as well, feel free to open a new thread on it since it's relative not only to this, but so MANY other issues.
Facing the Myth of Redemptive Violence
http://ekklesia.co.uk/content/cpt/article_060823wink.shtml
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:Quote:I know you weren't talking to me...but this is a microcosm of Conservia in exile. In relative disgrace, they have to sit alongside comparatively powerful Democrats hoping to chime in with something authoratative. If they don't catch a lucky break...thier only option is a maneuver children use in times of sparse attention...they go for negative attention, in this case, phony outrage. The more people who legitimize phony outrage with attention, the better the conservative feels.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo.... Look, I know you probably feel like you're surrounded by enemies but there's a REASON for it. And if you had an iota of self-reflection, of reasoning ability, you might ask yourself (not us, I wouldn't expect that) "Why? Why do so many people disagree with me?
I take issue with this because it's lumping all Conservatives into one barrel, which Liberals accuse Consevatives of doing all the time. What is to be gained by doing that?
What I saw when approaching this side of the site was a lot of bitter words used on both sides of the political spectrum. So much so that I was hesitant to even post an opinion. Sure Auraptor is passionate and a lot of the rest of you are as well, but it quickly disintegrates to name-calling and bullying and that just doesn't accomplish anything. He might possibly not think things all the way through when he posts and many of you latch on to that and deride what he has to say. He responds in kind. The passion takes over from the intellect. You guys just start flinging insults it all goes to hell in a handbasket after that. I understand there's some sort of history there, but I can only comment on what I've seen since joining and it ain't pretty from either side. But all in all, nothing gets accomplished and any sound, reasonable posts go unnoticed (for the most part) because people want to get their tongue lashings in or you just want to get in a jab at one or the other person.
All it does is perpetuate the myth that Liberals and Conservatives just can not get along. I know this isn't true, but all of this doesn't help.
BOTH sides need to give every now and then. BOTH sides need to keep a cool head. If that is followed (and yes, Rap, this means you, too) then something possitive might possibly happen. Some of you have agreed with me on a point or two and vice versa, but I try to keep my emotions out of it. Both sides feel a righteous anger toward the other and it just keeps getting fueled by bitter, off-hand remarks. I've rarely seen anyone give in or concede to any point (there have been a few, but not many).
Getting back on point . . .
I know a lot of you feel that the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, Graham and Hannity need to just go away. I understand that. They bring out what they perceive to be the ugliness of Liberal Democrats and yes, I have personally heard them rail against aspects of the Bush administration. They are commentators. They are not reporters. They don't claim to be. It's this country's freedom of speech that allows them to say what they want and get paid to say it. It's their show and they should be able to say what they want to say. Many people listen (more that DO like what they have to say vs. those that don't) to them in order get their take on the world around them and current events. Bill Maher says what he wants to say on his show and some of it is extremely mean spirited and vitriolic. Colbert pokes fun at Conservatives. Al Franken is notorious for his ugly rants. Should these guys just go away also? I would welcome a nationally syndicated Liberal talk show host so I could hear HIS/HER view on the matters of the day, but . . . there just isn't one.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Sure Auraptor is passionate and a lot of the rest of you are as well, but it quickly disintegrates to name-calling and bullying and that just doesn't accomplish anything. He might possibly not think things all the way through when he posts and many of you latch on to that and deride what he has to say.
Yeah, he accidentally said he thinks babies should be murdered. Or maybe on the spur of the moment he said something he really believes, that Palestinian babies should be murdered, before they have a chance to become terrorists.
Out of curiosity, would you also defend Heinrich Himmler? Because that's another guy who said children should be murdered to prevent them becoming problems later.
AURaptor isn't a conservative. AURaptor is an Authoritarian, AURaptor's position is closer to Fascism, and often racism than it could ever be to Conservatism. It's not proof that liberals and Conservatives can't get along, it's proof Liberals and FASCISTS can't get along. If I were a Liberal, I really wouldn't have a problem with that.
Maybe if you feel the need to defend those that advocate child murder, you're the one with the issue, not us.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Sure Auraptor is passionate and a lot of the rest of you are as well, but it quickly disintegrates to name-calling and bullying and that just doesn't accomplish anything. He might possibly not think things all the way through when he posts and many of you latch on to that and deride what he has to say.
Yeah, he accidentally said he thinks babies should be murdered. Or maybe on the spur of the moment he said something he really believes, that Palestinian babies should be murdered, before they have a chance to become terrorists.
Out of curiosity, would you also defend Heinrich Himmler? Because that's another guy who said children should be murdered to prevent them becoming problems later.
Maybe if you feel the need to defend those that advocate child murder, you're the one with the issue, not us.
AURaptor advocates child murder:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
You totally ignored every single other thing I said, Citizen. I'm not advocating anybody's point of view over the other, I blamed not one side, but both. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Holy freakin' cow...
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
You totally ignored every single other thing I said, Citizen. I'm not advocating anybody's point of view over the other, I blamed not one side, but both. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Holy freakin' cow...
No, I didn't, but the fact that THIS is what you took from my post, pretty much proves my point.
I'm not going to be polite to a wanna be baby killing Nazi just to come to some sort of "discussion". And if you want to devolve people getting pissed at a Fascist who advocates baby murder into something about Liberals vs Conservatives, then it really is you that has the issue. AURaptor is not a conservative.
Holy freakin' cow indeed.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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I think the reason why people get on rapo's case so much is because he has a looooong history of ignoring the plainly evident, if it conflicts with Rush. It doesn't matter if you're a conservative. If you dont' agree with Rush, you're not. It doesn't matter if you've BEEN in the military (even tho rapo hasn't)... if you dont' agree with rush you don't know anything about the military. It doesn't matter if you've been a crime victim, or experienced terrorism first-hand or been in a war... if you don't agree with Rush, you just don't KNOW how dangerous the world can be.
That kind of bone-headedness drives everyone else nuts, including me. I try, I really do, not to get caught up in throwing rocks at him 'cause stoning a delusional doesn't cure them of their delusions. If anything, it just makes their faith stronger. (Heck, look at early Xtian martyrs!) So I kick myself for all the times I lost my temper with rapo 'cause that only makes me an enabler. But how anyone can turn such a fat, ho-loving, viagra-popping, hillbilly-heroin-junkie into such a god of information is beyond me.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:Nothing. I at no point said "all" conservatives do anything the same. I implied that all the ones I've had contact with display phony outrage. Every Conservative I know prefers anger over humor for another example. So take my input for just what it is...observation, not generalization.
Originally posted by RIPWash:I take issue with this because it's lumping all Conservatives into one barrel, which Liberals accuse Consevatives of doing all the time. What is to be gained by doing that?
Quote:What you are seeing is passionate debate that has two sides. Those who believe cable news, radio, and web based politicial propaganda...and those who employ dictionary definitions, science, credible academic sources, and professional experience to argue. Some in between of course. But you can be a Liberal and get bullied for regurgitating the swill of numerouss pundits all over the floor here at FF.NET.
Originally posted by RIPWash:What I saw when approaching this side of the site was a lot of bitter words used on both sides of the political spectrum. So much so that I was hesitant to even post an opinion. Sure Auraptor is passionate and a lot of the rest of you are as well, but it quickly disintegrates to name-calling and bullying and that just doesn't accomplish anything.
Quote:Wow...show me the forum where things get accomplished.
Originally posted by RIPWash: He might possibly not think things all the way through when he posts and many of you latch on to that and deride what he has to say. He responds in kind. The passion takes over from the intellect. You guys just start flinging insults it all goes to hell in a handbasket after that. I understand there's some sort of history there, but I can only comment on what I've seen since joining and it ain't pretty from either side. But all in all, nothing gets accomplished and any sound, reasonable posts go unnoticed (for the most part) because people want to get their tongue lashings in or you just want to get in a jab at one or the other person.
Quote:Liberals and Conservatives aren't supposed to get along. If they were sympatico they would be one party...unchalleneged. Policy should be challenged with vigor...it's just that when it's challenged poorly and ineffectively that weaker member of the herd issuing the substandard challenge should be smote some way.
Originally posted by RIPWash:All it does is perpetuate the myth that Liberals and Conservatives just can not get along. I know this isn't true, but all of this doesn't help.
Quote:No, we need them to remain to reinforce the corrosive effects evangelism and paranoia has had on the Conservapublineocontarian Party.
Originally posted by RIPWash:I know a lot of you feel that the likes of Beck, Limbaugh, Graham and Hannity need to just go away.
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I get frustrated easily. In a "Can't we all just get along?" kinda way.
Malbadinlatin, count me as one of the Conservatives you "know" that does not display any faux outrage. I hope you have seen that by now. I certainly prefer humor over anger any day of the week.
Read what I said as "Get Along" in cool-headed way. Not "Let's all agree on this!!! WOOHOO!" Get along as in, "I might not agree with you, so let's look at this from another point of view."
Call me gullible and naive, I guess.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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... it quickly disintegrates to name-calling and bullying ...
... (Rap) might possibly not think things all the way through when he posts and many of you latch on to that and deride what he has to say. He responds in kind.
If only he did.
MOST of us post facts. MOST of us have backed-up our facts over and over with hard news, studies, laws, even definitions.
What does Rap do ? Does HE respond with facts ? Or does he make up things (lie) like '99% of them don't pay taxes', 'EVERYONE knew Saddam had WMDs' ....
Does HE back up what he posts with hard news and real data ? Or, when he does bother at all, does he quote snippets out of context, ignore 99% of the things he doesn't want to admit (for example, following UN resolutions supersede preceding ones), and quotes from right-wing OPINION pieces.
Does he discuss ? When it's pointed out that not EVEYONE thought Hussein had WMDs does HE come back with reasoned discourse ? Or does he claim victory, call people un-American, pout and run away ?
Rap has a history, which you might like to ignore, but most of us here have it with Rush's good dog.
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So, in the interests of experimentation, find something with which you disagree. Discuss it with him. Try to, anyway. Now do that twenty or thirty times. I suspect many of us will be looking on with glee. I know I will.
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BTW, I'm gonna talk about Finn a bit, too, 'cause he has Rapo's Disease, only in a milder form.
Last I left him, we were talking about the death penalty. I basically said that the death penalty was not a deterrent to crime because the peeps who engage in such behavior are so screwed up they're incapable of learning anyhow. (Either they were born without empathy or without impulse control, or suffered brain damage from being beaten, or were on drugs, or were plain crazy, or grew up in such a violent and chaotic environment that their brains developed badly.)
Finn's take was that I had justified the death penalty, because even if the people in question were not "at fault" they were also not redeemable and therefore SHOULD be executed. What Finn failed to realize was that his conclusion was based at least one of two assumptions, either/ both of which could be false: (1) The myth of redemptive violence (evil deserves to die) and/or (2) The myth of a maximally efficient society (anyone who is not productive deserves to die). In either case, the basis of Finn's judgement is that people should be sacrificed for certain ideas. And then... how is that different from terrorism? The only difference is that Finn thinks HIS ideas are better than theirs.
But that's where the irony came in: Finn's tagline for a while was that when you got the the point of doing ANTHING for your cause, that's when you became an extremist. The irony is that Finn never applied that to himself.
Lack of insight and judgement (Why do I believe that? What is that based on? Where does it break down?), inability to listen... these are critical failings for the supposedly intelligent human race.
"Looking at it from another point of view" is not in rapo's repertoire and possibly not in Finn's either, sorry to say.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
Rap has a history, which you might like to ignore, but most of us here have it with Rush's good dog.
So, in the interests of experimentation, find something with which you disagree. Discuss it with him. Try to, anyway. Now do that twenty or thirty times. I suspect many of us will be looking on with glee. I know I will.
I'd rather not. As I said - or at least apparently failed to - is that I KNOW you all have a history with him (so I did acknowlege - didn't ignore) of which I'm not privvy due to being relatively new to the forum. Perhaps using him was a poor example.
I tried not to offend with my post, but apparently did. Sorry about that, guys.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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RIP, you didn't offend me and I hope it didn't come off that way. I hope I haven't offended you.
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It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Rip, you didn't offend; you just didn't know.
I can TRY to have a rational discourse with 'Rap; fate knows I've tried MANY times over the years... Problem is, if it ain't going his way, he's going to (a) resort to name-calling, (b) insult one's "patriotism", (c) attack the presenter when he can't deny the facts, and lastly (d) stalk away from the thread, only to bring up THE EXACT SAME CRAP TIME AND TIME AGAIN EVERY TIME IT COMES UP.
It's like playing Whack-a-Mole, honestly. And I'm not one to sit by and let lies go unchallenged until they become "truth". That's just not in me. Wrong is wrong, and when he's wrong, you better believe I'm going to point it out. And it's probably going to go ugly early once I do.
Mike
A baby seal walks into a club...
The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".
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Quote:Duely noted and I'm happy to hear that.
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Malbadinlatin, count me as one of the Conservatives you "know" that does not display any faux outrage. I hope you have seen that by now. I certainly prefer humor over anger any day of the week.
Remember though...one incident of foundationless phony outrage and I will lump you back into the Conservapublineocontarian category.
And the humor? We're would someone like me find humor in the Conservative world?
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Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
And the humor? We're would someone like me find humor in the Conservative world?
laughing at Rush Limbaugh?
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Remember though...one incident of foundationless phony outrage and I will lump you back into the Conservapublineocontarian category.
I'll try and remember that. Can't promise anything, though. I'm only human.
Quote:
And the humor? We're would someone like me find humor in the Conservative world?
I know that was probably tongue in cheek, but I'll answer anyway . . .
We find humor in the same places you do, my friend. Movies, TV, Commedians, etc. I'm a HUGE fan of Jeff Dunham and wish I could watch more late night TV. I'm sure I would find The Daily Show VERY funny if I ever watched it, but I just don't. Couldn't tell you why. I DO like Jon Stewart. I've NEVER seen The Colbert Report, but would probably find that funny, too. Granted, things I might find humorous (say on Glenn Beck or whatever) might not suit your tastes, but for the most part . . . c'mon. You know we're all pretty much the same when it comes to humor.
Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas
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Quote:Just an observation, Rip, but I think you and I are pretty near, merely over the other side of the fence as it were.
Originally posted by RIPWash:
I'll try and remember that. Can't promise anything, though. I'm only human.
My kind of Real Conservative.
The Liburl Libertaric Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo.... Look, I know you probably feel like you're surrounded by enemies but there's a REASON for it. And if you had an iota of self-reflection, of reasoning ability, you might ask yourself (not us, I wouldn't expect that) "Why? Why do so many people disagree with me?
It comes down to me being a conservative, and the automatic misconceptions, the prejudices others have towards my point of view. Long before this issue of the Israeli t-shirts, folks like citizen went to their Left wing, standard issue array of insults set aside for anyone to the right of himself.
Racist, bigoted , xenophobe, homophobe, misogynistic, war mongering....blah blah blah. There are concrete and very valid reasons for my views, but folks on the Left simply don't want any part of it. To have to listen and think would be to threaten THEIR own view point, and that simply is too much to ask for some.
Quote:
Contrary to what you might tell yourself, not everyone here is am ivory-tower fuzzy-headed librul who doesn't know the world is dangerous. Some of us are not college graduates. Some of us have lived in dangerous neighborhoods. Some of us have been in the military, or experienced terrorism or war first-hand. Some of us own a gun and are prepared to use it. I dare say that many of us have experienced as much danger and fear as you, if not more. We know its a rough world.
So why would so many people, of such diverse backgrounds, disagree with you so strongly?
Believe it or not, in a instance of supreme irony that only a careless universe could arrange, Finn posted the answer.
Didn't catch where Finn's answer is, but I'd like to give it a read.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:But you're clearly not. You really are an Authoritarian. Which sometimes intersects with far Right views.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It comes down to me being a conservative
What it comes down to is examining core beliefs...something it seems you don't do. Core beliefs should evolve over time to include new data & points of view. They should allow for possible error, even long term error. The non-re-examined belief system is stagnant, calcified & wrong-headed one.
It used to be hard for me to admit when I was wrong until I "let" myself be human enough to retain my self-respect even when I was in error.
Be courageous, dude.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It comes down to me being a conservative, and the automatic misconceptions, the prejudices others have towards my point of view.
This is complete lie. No one is prejudiced against conservatives, and AURaptor is not a conservative. The closest thing to AURaptor would be an SS camp guard who enjoys killing, but can't take responsibility for his actions.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Racist, bigoted , xenophobe, homophobe, misogynistic, war mongering.
All these things are true of AURaptor, that's why people say them (though he missed off Child murderer and fascist).
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There are concrete and very valid reasons for my views, but folks on the Left simply don't want any part of it. To have to listen and think would be to threaten THEIR own view point, and that simply is too much to ask for some.
None of these things are true.
As a general rule of thumb, if you want to know the truth, it's the exact opposite of what this drug addict worshiping, child murdering racist Nazi says.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Another thing AU, when you post anywhere else on FFF, you are quite easy to get along with, because it's you talking. When you post here, more often that not we're being treated to a regurgitation of Rush, you're barely there at all, except in the form of a brainless tape recorder.
The laughing Chrisisall
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core beliefs don't 'evolve', they are a foundation on which one views the world. If your foundation is always shifting, you can't build much of anything on them.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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citizen - thanks for providing the troll humor you've become famous for, but it's really not needed here.
You don't even know what a fascist is, and yet you accuse me of being one. A classic, standard Left wing charge.
Nothing citizen says is true. He's become a troll, and deserves to be sent to troll country.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Actually I find it all interesting when the knives come out cause you get to see what REALLY lurks behind the polite masks each of us use to get along in society.
Cause, see, once I know where all the gears and levers are, it becomes easier to pull them.
And yes, admittedly on occasion I'll use subtle wording and phrasing to start pulling them till smoke is rolling outta someones ears - if they're smart, they LEARN from that, and if they don't, well, it just provides me with that much amusement, doesn't it ?
I like discussing things, especially with folk who have other points of view, cause the more windows you view a subject through, the clearer the picture is - but when someone starts smearing mud on the windows cause you WANT to distort the picture for nefarious reasons...
That's when the claws come out, and like any other form of violence, I tend to do a thorough job of it when it comes to cases.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Another thing AU, when you post anywhere else on FFF, you are quite easy to get along with, because it's you talking. When you post here, more often that not we're being treated to a regurgitation of Rush, you're barely there at all, except in the form of a brainless tape recorder.
The laughing Chrisisall
The same objective, independent, and skeptical person you see in other threads is the same guy who post here. Thanks for the compliments, and I'd suggest you might want to re-examine why what I say here makes you react the way you do. Might not be ME that's the problem.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:It was his tagline for a while, and went something like: Once you're willing to do anything for your cause, that's when you've become an extremist.
Didn't catch where Finn's answer is, but I'd like to give it a read.
Quote:I think you're confusing "core beliefs" with "core ethics". An ethic is how you distinguish right from wrong. It is ONE kind of belief. A "belief" is a more general category. It could about Santa Claus or Jesus, or your a priori assumptions, or your core ethics. I have a core ethic, and my core ethic is: Belief is bad. It keeps people from questioning themselves and others. It keeps people from seeing a bigger picture than they saw yesterday.
core beliefs don't 'evolve', they are a foundation on which one views the world. If your foundation is always shifting, you can't build much of anything on them.
So far, all I see is a core belief that Muslims are bad. If that's a mis-read: what IS (ARE) your core belief(s)?
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Rapo, the floor is yours:
"My core beliefs are.... "
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Muslims who blow up monuments of Buddha , saw heads off of non believers, strap bombs to the mentally challenged so as to murder or praise the deaths of space shuttle crews who burn up in re-entry are bad.
Oh, but those aren't 'real' Muslims.
Right.
And Priest aren't 'real' Christians.
See how it can be played?
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Muslims who do those things are bad. Priests who molest children are bad. But that's not a "core belief.
You've said many times you have unwavering core beliefs. If you've had them for so many years, you SHOULD be able to express them as an overarching assumption or direction, not as a specific reaction to specific events.
For example, Finn would say "Human life is sacred". I would say "My beginning assumption is that the universe is real and we are a part of it." So, what are YOUR core beliefs?
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Hello,
My core beliefs AND ethics have changed over time. Things I once considered permissable in my youth, I now consider unpermissable. Things I once embraced without a second thought, I now have grave doubts or even disbelief towards.
The analogy of 'you can't build anything on a shifting foundation' is a flawed one. Life isn't one original foundation of beliefs and principles upon which all else is laid.
Life is a series of foundations and the actions built upon them. As experience is acquired, new foundations are laid, new actions built up. Life is not one vast building. Life is a City full of the buildings you've made. The idea of a stagnant foundation is, to me, madness. It implies an inability to achieve growth at the most important levels.
My own analogy would be thus. Egypt has several pyramids. The earlier ones were primitive step-designs and in some cases poorly built, collapsing in on themselves. New foundations were laid. New pyramids built. The most basic assumptions about pyramid building evolved. (So don't let anyone tell you that Aliens built the things, unless the Aliens were morons who screwed up the first couple before they got it right.)
Yes, even foundations evolve. God help you if they don't. You can't build forever on a single, unchanging foundation. At some points in your life, it is highly desirable to re-examine yourself from the bottom up, to critically analyze even your most basic and sacred beliefs and assumptions, and make the necessary changes. Then you can create a new building of improved actions on a better foundation. And then another. Until the day you die.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Good point Anthony.
IMHO the most difficult challenge is to RECOGNIZE your core beliefs. The deeper and more fundamental the belief, the harder it is to see... simply because it IS part of your world view.
In my opinion that a person who reveals something about me to myself... something I didn't know and would never have suspected... deserves my deepest thanks.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen - thanks for providing the troll humor you've become famous for, but it's really not needed here.
You don't even know what a fascist is, and yet you accuse me of being one. A classic, standard Left wing charge.
Everything I said is true. You're a perfect example of a fascist. I know exactly what a fascist is, it's you that doesn't. Again you attribute your attributes to others, hoping against hope to get a rise. You even advocate child murder and racial cleansing. Saying "lie" when all those things are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt only serves to strength my case. Hint: that's what Fascists do too.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nothing citizen says is true. He's become a troll, and deserves to be sent to troll country.
None of my threads have ended up in troll country. Yours have. Objectively it's obvious who the troll is, and who belongs in troll country. Hint: It's the troll whose threads end up in troll country (I.E. you troll boy).
Go goose-step and try to smear others with your traits else where. No one believes you here so you might as well give it up.
You can't get to me any more. The only people that lend any credibility to your mad ravings and attempt to tar others with your brush are your sock puppets, which are you so don't count. You start threads only to attack people, which makes you a troll, I don't. You try to claim I'm a troll, but at the end the only proven one is you. You try to claim I don't know what a Fascist is, but I've schooled you on that subject before, and I know you were proven wrong (as does everyone else) because you ran away from that thread with your tail between your legs. No matter what you claim of me, all anyone has to do is see your comments on your position on murdering children to see the truth.
Your hollow insubstantial lies can never save you now. You've pulled on the jack boots and shiny swastika, and paraded around scream "ACHTUNG!" and everyone's seen it. The only person you can delude now that you've changed into your faux outrage clothes is you. We've seen you, we've seen the real you, and no amount of lying can erase that image. I pity you. I pity your family or anyone close to you (if in some unlikely event there are such people).
What a sad evil deluded little monster you are.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Rapo, I'm going to give you another chance to explain to me what your core beliefs are. Those beliefs which are so important to you that they haven't changed, will NEVER change.
But if you can't articulate your core beliefs, I wonder: How much you do KNOW about them? What are they? What are their limits? How do they fit together?
If you can't answer those questions... questions about your very moral, intellectual, and/or emotional foundation... you're in deep trouble, my friend.
If you feel that you're simply going to get attacked, feel free to PM me.
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Here's a core belirf of mine I latched onto in 1971 that's pretty much not changed over the years:
"Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced."
The Shaolin Chrisisall
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Quote:When you post something elsewhere it's usually a reaction to fascination, in here it seems to be from a reaction to a fear...seems like two different peeps to me.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The same objective, independent, and skeptical person you see in other threads is the same guy who post here.
Just sayin'.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Psychologists and others who study such things say that it is common for a person to be wildly delusional about one thing and functional in other aspects. That is thanks to the brain being extremely context-sensitive. On the one hand it prevents one error from fatally contaminating other learning. OTOH it DOES allow assumptions (and delusions) to remain unexamined.
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Apparently Rapo has none of those "core beliefs" of which he speaks so fervently.
RIP... This is a typical rapo fade, and why talking with him is so frustrating. He has a forum... and invitation, even... to express his core beliefs either publicly or privately and he's done neither. Seems to me like either (1)He doesn't know what he believes or (2) He's afraid of catching flak or (3) He's not here to discuss, but rather simply to get his jolt of dopamine by dissing opinions other than Rush's.
At this point I'd rather discuss something more consequential than rapo's pathologies, so I'm gonna move on.
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My core beliefs?
I know with absolute certainty that I can never know with anything like absolutely certainty my place in the universe. I know that nothing I do is important, but that it is very important that I do it.
Core enough for ya?
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Core Beliefs
Hey - this may all be a dream of some demented teenage boy-girl on some extra-solar planet -
- but it's all I've got.
So I'm going to believe that it's real, act like it's real, and suffer the consequences and reap the rewards of this place. I'm going to trust that my actions will never be repeated and never be repealed. I'm going to believe that whatever I do - as large or small as it may be - will have effects - and act accordingly.
And then - nothing (or at least I'll find out).
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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citizen has the mind of a 6 yr old, and is simply inverting everything I say.
What a gorram child.
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Mine are actually obvious, most of em.
What you do, is who you are.
You should avoid harming other people.
Children are people.
Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing.
People are naturally humane, it takes a lot of effort and training to make them otherwise.
And, for balance, one less obvious one that most folks prolly won't like.
Once a person has voluntarily cast aside or surrendered their humanity, they are no longer a human being and should not be regarded as such.
-F
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What I fear most , chris, is that folks like citizen are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What I fear most , chris, is that folks like citizen are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
What I fear, 'Rap, is that folks like you are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, I'm going to give you another chance to explain to me what your core beliefs are. Those beliefs which are so important to you that they haven't changed, will NEVER change.
But if you can't articulate your core beliefs, I wonder: How much you do KNOW about them? What are they? What are their limits? How do they fit together?
If you can't answer those questions... questions about your very moral, intellectual, and/or emotional foundation... you're in deep trouble, my friend.
If you feel that you're simply going to get attacked, feel free to PM me.
---------------------------------
Pardon me if I feel less than energetic to play along. Hell, if I said the sun rose in the East, you'd find reason to fight me on it. And then call me a liar. And a racist. Why the HELL would I care to delve into any level of serious banter with you or your cohorts on my core beliefs ?
Ask yourself that question. Honestly, and think about it before you fire off some snarky little come back.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What I fear most , chris, is that folks like citizen are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
What I fear, 'Rap, is that folks like you are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
No one asked you, and how UN original, to repeat back to me what I JUST said.
Game is what you AIN'T got.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Hello,
My current cast of core beliefs are as such:
1) Try to be honest without being cruel, but be honest with yourself even if it feels cruel.
2) Help as much as you can, Harm as little as you can.
3) Remember that even Solomon, with all his wisdom, could be wrong. And I'm not Solomon.
4) Forgive yourself your sins, but try to eliminate them, too.
5) God wants You to be the best You possible.
6) There is a Purpose to Life.
7) Let no man unjustly interfere with you, and likewise do not unjustly interfere with any man.
Foundation subject to change as I continue to learn. :-)
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What I fear most , chris, is that folks like citizen are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
What I fear, 'Rap, is that folks like you are really that screwed up, and believe all that they say. It's unfathomable, and that's why I fear for this entire species.
No one asked you, and how UN original, to repeat back to me what I JUST said.
Game is what you AIN'T got.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
Uht-oh - I bet he's going to "dismiss" me!
I was showing you and everyone else here that your words can just as easily damn you the way you hope they damn others.
Mike
A baby seal walks into a club...
The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".
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More of my core beliefs (I love how peeps put theirs here!):
Treat others in the way you would like to be treated.
Be certain that uncertainty rules.
Be excellent to each other.
When faced with superior force, get in the first punch.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:I think I can guarantee that most of us will see something positive in your core beliefs as long as it doesn't get political-y.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Pardon me if I feel less than energetic to play along.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:Although not a pretty one, I cannot disagree. The slippery part is defining "voluntarily cast aside or surrendered their humanity."
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Once a person has voluntarily cast aside or surrendered their humanity, they are no longer a human being and should not be regarded as such.
I see that as being the perpetrating of violent rape, repeated physical and/or psychological child or victim abuse, and committing murder for fun or profit.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:Well, I could be snarky, but I'm not gonna be. The reason why you COULD delve into your core beliefs is because I promise to take everything you say seriously. You may not like the direction my questions will go (I promise to ask lots of questions) but I will not devolve to snark. The reason why you SHOULD delve into your core beliefs is that you might learn something... something important and fundamental about yourself or the world. Something you would never have known otherwise.
Pardon me if I feel less than energetic to play along. Hell, if I said the sun rose in the East, you'd find reason to fight me on it. And then call me a liar. And a racist. Why the HELL would I care to delve into any level of serious banter with you or your cohorts on my core beliefs ? Ask yourself that question. Honestly, and think about it before you fire off some snarky little come back.
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My first core belief... my a priori asumption... is that the universe is real and we are a part of it. My second is that we come to know it through our senses. Don't talk to me about gods or religion or belief. If you think something exists, show me. Don't say that your ethics are "god-given". They were created by people.
My core ethics are (1) Knowledge, and self-knowledge. I hold them in high regard. (2) Greatest good for greatest number, including generations from now.
What I learned from this board: (1)You must be the change you wish to see. I have seen too many people here using fine-sounding goals (justice, freedom, security) to justify torture, murder, and tyranny. (2) Large institutions should be kept in check.
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"Don't talk to me about gods or religion or belief."
Hello,
I do apologize if I came off as preachy.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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What I SHOULD have said was: don't try to convince me of god or religion. But, no, you didn't come off as preachy. You seem to me a thoughtful person.
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I've commented on these before, so if you're heard these before, it's likely because I've said them. Not Rush, not O'Reily, but little ole me.
We all have the same basic rights.
My rights, as do all others, allow me to do what ever I want, so long as my actions don't infringe or hinder anyone else's rights through force of fraud. ( So, drugs and 'companioning' ought to be legal )
We belong to ourselves. No country, no political party, no religion, no company owns us. We might say we have no choice to stay w/ the crappy job, but we're kidding ourselves. There are 2 things we have no choice in, being born, and dying. All we do in between is basically up to us.
While the Cosmos is infinitly old, we are here only a finite amount of time. Jimmy Buffett puts it best, I think....
" And still twenty four hours
maybe sixty good years
It's really not that long a stay"
Mankind is new to this planet, and it's a very old planet. Older than most can comprehend.
Lots of life on this little rock, over its time. Lots.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen has the mind of a 6 yr old, and is simply inverting everything I say.
What a gorram child.
Yep, I totally inverted this:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
I said he sounded like an evil child murdering fascist, when really he IS one.
As for a mind of a six year old, again this stupid deluded monster tries to offload 'his' attributes on to others. Maybe he'll threaten to beat me up over the internet again, or question that maybe the joke is in my trousers, like a real grown up little boy?
What a sad deluded little monster you prove yourself to be.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, I'm going to give you another chance to explain to me what your core beliefs are. Those beliefs which are so important to you that they haven't changed, will NEVER change.
But if you can't articulate your core beliefs, I wonder: How much you do KNOW about them? What are they? What are their limits? How do they fit together?
If you can't answer those questions... questions about your very moral, intellectual, and/or emotional foundation... you're in deep trouble, my friend.
If you feel that you're simply going to get attacked, feel free to PM me.
---------------------------------
Pardon me if I feel less than energetic to play along. Hell, if I said the sun rose in the East, you'd find reason to fight me on it. And then call me a liar. And a racist. Why the HELL would I care to delve into any level of serious banter with you or your cohorts on my core beliefs ?
Ask yourself that question. Honestly, and think about it before you fire off some snarky little come back.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
And then somebody else would come along and say "Rapp said the Sun rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun Rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun rises in the West" ad nauseum.
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citizen, dumb fuck, I'm not the one advocating any such thing remotely close to child murder. The Pal CULTURE is, by strapping bombs to it's OWN DAMN CHILDREN!!
You're such a fucking moron.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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You really are pathetic, you cannot even be honest about something as simple as that, and then feel the need to bring out your overexposed and completely outed sock puppet to try and defend your own indefensible conduct ?
I think imma need a new toy, cause this one's broken... and yes, I *do* consider you a toy, and in this very thread explained why that happens to be the case.
-F
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Never been anything but honest here, Frem. Don't know why it bothers you so much, or so personally, but I guess that's more a you problem than anything.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen, dumb fuck, I'm not the one advocating any such thing remotely close to child murder. The Pal CULTURE is, by strapping bombs to it's OWN DAMN CHILDREN!!
See Sig, AURaptor's words speak for themselves.
I know where your mind of a six year old crack came from, obviously you want to murder me, and being a wanna be child murderer and all.
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're such a fucking moron.
Really, it's you who thinks saying "I never said that" when YOUR WORDS are RIGHT THERE for all to see will work.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rapo, I'm going to give you another chance to explain to me what your core beliefs are. Those beliefs which are so important to you that they haven't changed, will NEVER change.
But if you can't articulate your core beliefs, I wonder: How much you do KNOW about them? What are they? What are their limits? How do they fit together?
If you can't answer those questions... questions about your very moral, intellectual, and/or emotional foundation... you're in deep trouble, my friend.
If you feel that you're simply going to get attacked, feel free to PM me.
---------------------------------
Pardon me if I feel less than energetic to play along. Hell, if I said the sun rose in the East, you'd find reason to fight me on it. And then call me a liar. And a racist. Why the HELL would I care to delve into any level of serious banter with you or your cohorts on my core beliefs ?
Ask yourself that question. Honestly, and think about it before you fire off some snarky little come back.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
And then somebody else would come along and say "Rapp said the Sun rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun Rises in the West" "Rapo said the Sun rises in the West" ad nauseum.
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Rapo,out of your set of core beliefs... which I have a great deal of sympathy for... how do you and I wind up so far apart?
Unfortunately. I'll have to get back later this, but I just wanted you to know that I saw and understood your post. Thanks.
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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The Pals advocate child murder, I advocate saving lives. If you were honest , at all, you'd put that in your sig.
But you're not, you're a punk and a coward and a liar.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:I wouldn't say "all" here, I think there are aspects we don't fully control.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There are 2 things we have no choice in, being born, and dying. All we do in between is basically up to us.
Again, from my youth:
"What happens in a man's life is already written. A man must move through life as his destiny wills."
"Yes, yet each man is free to live as he chooses. Though they seem opposite, both are true. I do not understand it."
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The Pals advocate child murder, I advocate saving lives. If you were honest , at all, you'd put that in your sig.
But you're not, you're a punk and a coward and a liar.
There's nothing dishonest about putting your full and unedited comments up for all the site to see.
There's something dishonest about saying putting your full unedited comments up to see is a lie.
I have to say I do like Punk Rock, but would never describe myself as a punk. Though I feel compelled to point out you've just proven yourself a liar and a coward. Only a liar and a coward could be too afraid to own up to their own words.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Can't and won't own up to what's not mine. Mis characterize me as YOU see fit, but it won't change the facts, and all who have 1/2 a brain can see what you're attempting to do. ( Those with less than 1/2 a brain, likely will be fooled and believe the crap you're spreading. )
That's what makes you a punk, a liar and a coward.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Can't and won't own up to what's not mine. Mis characterize me as YOU see fit, but it won't change the facts, and all who have 1/2 a brain can see what you're attempting to do. ( Those with less than 1/2 a brain, likely will be fooled and believe the crap you're spreading. )
That's what makes you a punk, a liar and a coward.
Talking to the mirror can't help you now, baby killer!
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
When I was a young pup, I advocated the killing of trespassers.
During the first Gulf War, I had a cut out newspaper photograph of Saddam Hussein taped to my dartboard, so I could fantasize about murdering him repeatedly with my dart pistol.
When I got F-15 Strike Eagle on my Apple II+, I wished I could bomb Iran just like in the video game.
I once could be quoted as saying that all people with serious inheritable diseases should be sterilized.
I wasn't always the man I am today. I have changed a lot from my more foolish youth. I find much of my brash opinions from those days to be lamentable.
I am glad there is no one quoting my bone-headed statements of days gone by, because I should very much look the monster in such a case.
Perhaps AuRaptor laments his brash comment, but finds himself unable to escape it. Most people could just move on and forget it, but he is faced with that quote in every thread. He clearly wants to disown it, but how?
You've made me feel sorry for AuRaptor.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I don't lament my comment in the least. What I lament, using your word, is that there's a mindset out there, a culture of people ( it's not a race, nor religion specific ) which willfully and gleefully brain washes it's children to martyr themselves , while murdering 10's or 100's of innocent people, out of pure, unadulterated and unchecked hatred for what ever the hell cause they think is just. Oh sure, today they'll claim Palestinian independence, but once that is achieved ( they already had a chance at that, peacefully ) , what then will be their excuse ?
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Hello,
I'm sorry...
you don't lament suggesting that innocent babies strapped with explosives should be assassinated along with their handlers (mothers?)
I want to be clear on this. You think the babies ought to be offed, too? This wasn't a careless or emotional response offered in the heat of the moment?
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Just so everyone is clear
You're for murdering babies, while still in the womb, right? Under the guise of ' women's health care ', aka abortion rights. Yes or no?
But when it comes to Pal women putting bombs on their children, either to brain wash them to grow up hating the Jews and wanting to murder as many as they can, or to actually blow up the baby as is, say in a stroller which is packed full of explosives and razor sharp shrapnel.... you got no problems w/ that in the least.
Wow.
All I got is ..... wow.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Hello,
AuRaptor, it sounds as if you are saying that "If a baby is likely (in my opinion) to grow up with beliefs hostile to me, that baby should be executed pre-emptively to save me trouble later."
This seems rather mafia-esque or Medieval.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Well, a baby isn't exactly going to detonate a bomb trigger on its own. It is the definition of innocence, no matter how horrid its own mother/ handler might be, or their intentions.
Only in Hollywood or pure fiction would there likely be a scenario where a baby or toddler should be offed for the sake of saving a bus or market area full of people. Such a real world situation seems extremely unlikely.
Such bombs would be on a timer or remotely detonated, and the condition of the child as merely a bomb transport really isn't all that significant.
T, once again, you've shown to be a reasonable rascal. Touche'.
Quote:
Hello,
AuRaptor, it sounds as if you are saying that "If a baby is likely (in my opinion) to grow up with beliefs hostile to me, that baby should be executed pre-emptively to save me trouble later."
This seems rather mafia-esque or Medieval.
Nope. Not my intention or meaning in the least. Pardon the confusion.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Quote:
What I lament, using your word, is that there's a mindset out there, a culture of people ( it's not a race, nor religion specific ) which willfully and gleefully brain washes it's children to martyr themselves , while murdering 10's or 100's of innocent people, out of pure, unadulterated and unchecked hatred for what ever the hell cause they think is just.
Of course, these exact same words could be used to describe many of those who join our military. Not all, mind you, but there ARE those of a certain mindset there who joined just because that's the culture they were born into, and they'll so completely trust in those who raised them to be cannon-fodder that they'll gleefully throw themselves in harm's way to "protect" a country that would just as soon use them up and throw them away.
In the U.S., we often call them "patriots".
Guess it's a matter of perspective...
Mike
A baby seal walks into a club...
The "On Fire" Economy -
The Dow closed at 10,587.60 on January 20, 2001, the day GW Bush took office. Eight years later, it closed below 8000 on the day he left office - a net loss of 25%. That's what conservatives call an economic "success".
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Can we please continue this here? This thread is getting impossibly long.
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37508
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Such bombs would be on a timer or remotely detonated, and the condition of the child as merely a bomb transport really isn't all that significant.
And yet you STILL want to "take care" of them. Even though there's no practical reason too.
That's sick!
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
Chronology, Citizen.
He has since reversed his position.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Chronology, Citizen.
He has since reversed his position.
--Anthony
Erm, no he hasn't?
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,
Chronology, Citizen.
He has since reversed his position.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
Clarified, not reversed. To be specific.
"As much as I respect what he's doing, really the economy is something he should focus on more than the brackets. "
- Duke University basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski, after Obama snubbed Duke in his Final Four picks.
The U.S. economy WAS on fire under Bush, for 6 years. Until the Democrats took control of Congress. It's been all down hill since then.
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Hello,
Refined, then? :-)
The point is that AuRaptor has stated that he no longer advocates shooting innocent children if it can at all be avoided, because they are not the ones in control of the demolitions in question.
The recognition of 'innocent people' who should 'not' be killed is a revelation, and a good one.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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He's still not disavowed his previous statements, and I don't see anything in his posts that really says he's reconsidered the baby killing issue. The only time he's referenced his previous statements, was to say he stands by them utterly. I'm not going to believe a one post seeing of the light.
If he, right now, says "My previous statements were completely wrong, I have changed my mind, I apologise unreservedly for my evil statements, and hope you all can show me more mercy and forgiveness than I was prepared to show an innocent baby that hadn't done anything" or words to that effect, I'll reconsider.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
Well, I don't think that asking someone to prostrate themselves and make obsequious statements is going to accomplish anything. He has, in effect, disavowed the critical aspect of his previous statements, which was the baby killing.
Let me find the relevant quote:
"Taking out the handler, and leaving the innocent kid in one piece, would clearly be preferable."
Here we have
A) An acknowledgement that the kid is innocent.
And
B) A desire to not harm the innocent kid.
Since this statement contra-indicates the original premise 'might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill' then we can clearly see he is no longer advocating child murder.
His new position can be best paraphrased as, 'might be a good idea to ace the handler and leave the baby intact.'
Which I think is a position we can all agree with.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I think AuRaptor's version of "man up, apologize, and move on" goes more like
"Ok, General."
It's not like he's ever going to just come out and admit that he was wrong.
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Bullshit, it's not good enough. He clearly said he wants to have babies murdered, I'm not going to let him wriggle out of it with a hand wave. He wouldn't let anyone else off so easy, and he sure as hell doesn't deserve such understanding.
And frankly, his position isn't all that much further away from the original Himmler-esque crap. It's just a different spin on the whole "it'll sure be a shame that we have to kill all them kids" vibe.
Frankly, what I said would be the BARE MINIMUM for me to even start to consider letting this drop. If you say killing babies is a fine and dandy idea, you have to work exceedingly fucking hard to redeem yourself. And by that, I don't mean say "ok I'd rather not kill them, but whatchya gonna do?"
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
Citizen, if the only way you will let our enemies back down from a fight is by forcing them to prostrate themselves in a position that robs them of all dignity, then you will spend your entire life fighting. It is much preferable, I think, to accept a simple concession of principles, and move on.
Otherwise you will find yourself perpetually prosecuting people for past sins, simply because it was not enough for them to change their position. They had to do it with pride-breaking fanfare.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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I wonder if any of the Nazi's in the Nuremburg trials thought of just saying "hey, I don't think we should kill all the Jews now!". Then we could have let them off.
That's fine if your 'enemy' has just called you an arsehole, but if they've just said "hey I'm down with the baby massacre!" then it requires a bit more contrition than "Hey, I don't really want too, but I still would."
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
Citizen, your analogy would only ring true if AuRaptor had actually murdered babies.
Instead, what happened was he said, "Yeah, we ought to kill those babies along with their handlers," and then, whilst still not having killed any babies said, "Well, on second thought I see what you mean. The babies are innocent. We just ought to kill the handlers if at all possible."
If you are going to persecute people for merely thinking about murder, and then changing their minds, then please add me to your tagline.
Anthony thinks about murdering innocent people:
"I have, from time to time, murdered countless people within the confines of my imagination." --Anthony
You could also try this -
Anthony advocates executing criminals without trial:
"I once taped a newspaper photo of Saddam Hussein to my dartboard, and shot him repeatedly with my dart pistol. I imagined in my mind that I was a government assassin or sniper, murdering this murderer and ending his brand of evil forever." --Anthony
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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Cit, it would be cathartic if rapo would admit openly that he was wrong. But that's not gonna happen anytime soon. I can think of a lot of reasons why not... and none to do with sheer cussedness. Might be time to graciously accept the clarification... and, oh yeah... continue in the OTHER thread???
---------------------------------
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Anthony thinks about murdering innocent people:
"I have, from time to time, murdered countless people within the confines of my imagination." --Anthony
You could also try this -
Anthony advocates executing criminals without trial:
"I once taped a newspaper photo of Saddam Hussein to my dartboard, and shot him repeatedly with my dart pistol. I imagined in my mind that I was a government assassin or sniper, murdering this murderer and ending his brand of evil forever." --Anthony
Those are examples that are as unlike his statements as my analogy.
And actually, he's still saying he is ok with killing babies, just that he'd feel bad about it after. He's not changed his position, he's put a slightly different spin on it. You've been taken in by his phony pretence at "refining" his views. I haven't. And I'm not going to let a wannabe baby murderer off with a "I would feel a little twinge of guilt about it afterwards".
I see no reason why I'd extend him more mercy than he'd extend to anyone else, or an innocent baby for that matter.
AURaptor advocates child murder:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
When Pal women start dressing up their babies in suicide pampers, might be a good idea to go ahead and take care of both of them at once, before they have a chance to kill.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=37443#687361
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Hello,
Well Citizen, I suppose I'm not going to change your mind. But as long as you chain people to the past, you put them in the position of defending the indefensible, if only because they wish to defend themselves, and you've linked their selves to their past ideas.
He will never prostrate himself for you. Even I, who lament my past 'bad thinking' doubt that I would prostrate myself to say so. And so you will be stuck with that tagline forever, and we innocent forumites will be stuck reading it.
Forever.
What a dreary world. I'd much prefer a Burma Shave advert.
--Anthony
"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner
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