Dollhouse: Briar Rose - Echo becomes Sleeping Beauty and dreams of her Firefly Prince. Post comments here.

POSTED BY: Haken
UPDATED: Friday, May 8, 2009 01:48
VIEWED: 16437
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HAKEN

Saturday, May 2, 2009 12:40 AM (P)

Tonight's episode is a biggie. Some would even agree that we waited the entire season for it.

Was it worth the wait?
Does it deliver?
Will it be enough of a stimulus to save the Dollhouse from an untimely foreclosure?

You decide and post your comments here.

SHINYVERA2517

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:34 AM (P)

Watching it as we speak.......been a bad Joss fan, this is the 1st ep I've watched....watched because of Alan. Not dissapointed. Amazing as always......Gotta love Wash.

_____
"He was mostly brave.....MOSTLY??!?!...he was brave..."

AURAPTOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:45 AM (P)

Oh, I'm going to that special hell, for not watching more Dollhouse. But maybe I can get a comfy seat in that special hell for watching tonight.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:50 AM (P)

Whoa! Watch it there w/ the blade!!

Didn't see THAT comin'!

AURAPTOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:55 AM (P)

I don't like seeing Amy crying.

SHINYVERA2517

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:57 AM (P)

Ooooooooooh! Now I see!!

_____
"He was mostly brave.....MOSTLY??!?!...he was brave..."

SHINYVERA2517

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:58 AM (P)

Hmmmm. Didn't see that coming

_____
"He was mostly brave.....MOSTLY??!?!...he was brave..."

GOOSE5068

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:05 AM (P)

This episode was sweet. I liked that they didn't reveal alpha until the very end. I thought the episode was very well done and Alan played his part beutiful and how he went from a crazy high gut to alpha. The previews for the next episode looks awsome.

SHINYVERA2517

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:10 AM (P)

Agreed!! Goofy Alan to crazy Alan. Excellent!.....and yes, next week's looks great too!

_____
"He was mostly brave.....MOSTLY??!?!...he was brave..."

SCHISM

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:11 AM (P)

Great ep.
One issue.
Big issue.

You're telling me that the secret fortress for the highly secretive underground organization was kept secure from intruders by a BRIGHTLY LIT GRATE THAT REQUIRED NO TOOLS TO REMOVE AND ALLOW ENTRY???

Not only is that bad security, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen!

If he had tried at least ONE walk-around of the facility first he would have found his way in WITHOUT the designer's help!

Still loved the ep though.

KACIDILLA

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:14 AM (P)

still think that my favorite line was the "medicinal carrots" line. :) CANNOT wait for next week - more answers and questions are sure to come!

KHAMBILO

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:16 AM (P)

AH!!!! We've been waiting the entire season for this!

by the way

Select to view spoiler:

totally called the Echo/Alpha pairing, but i never thought that it would happen that way, and i mean the episode as well. The title suggested that it would be Paul saving Echo, not Alpha. COMPLETELY unexpected!

CELLARDOOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:29 AM (P)

Because I like to make these Firefly connections: I found the small "Jaynestown" vibe from the disturbed/abused girl "fixing" the book rather interesting. Seemed so much like River "fixing" Book's Bible. Also, we got a similar speech about people being no more than (essentially, though the words were different) objects in space. They were momentary only, but I still wanted to note the brief allusions to Firefly.

I was highly impressed by this episode. Alan's acting range is pretty much incredible, not to mention Enver's too, wow! I do have to admit that I liked Topher's part in all of this tonight, both for the role he was proud of and for the role he seemed absolutely ashamed of and uncomfortable with. Paul pretty much made me sick though, shutting the glass pane on M/N as though she were a completely lost cause, and only caring about Caroline... He's no hero as we traditionally define one. =\

KIRKULES

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:33 AM (P)

Alan's excellent acting almost made this episode enjoyable, almost.

AGLAIA

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:34 AM (P)

I thought it was a great episode. I can only hope it's not too late. Alan was fantastic.

SCHISM

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:52 AM (P)

Here's the question....are they gonna kill him off, or let him survive and make a return possible?

Should a second season exist, that is.

And what will become of Victor? Kinda hard to get a job woo'ing old rich ladies when your face is all cut up.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:56 AM (P)

schism

Quote:
You're telling me that the secret fortress for the highly secretive underground organization was kept secure from intruders by a BRIGHTLY LIT GRATE THAT REQUIRED NO TOOLS TO REMOVE AND ALLOW ENTRY???

It's the oldest trick in the book. Hiding in plain sight.

Or they were too busy writing plot ?

KIRKULES

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:58 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
And what will become of Victor? Kinda hard to get a job woo'ing old rich ladies when your face is all cut up.

"Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. And the United States of America has the best doctor-to-daredevil ratio in the world!"

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:03 AM (P)

It was good to see Wash again. Almost the same character in War Stories. Then the evil Angel came out to play.

And good to see Faith again. That's her forte.

I liked Joss's jab at Fox:

Quote:
"They call that editing. You can make a living at that."
-Echo, Dollhouse, Briar Rose

"Hahaha! Mine is an evil laugh."
-Alpha, Dollhouse, Briar Rose (deleted scene)

RAHLMACLAREN

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:34 AM (P)

Some things from the ep that I can still remember:

My new PNY 8G flash drive was in Dewitt’s hand (right before the weatherman interupted the show for a couple minutes. Damn supercells.)!

Medicinal carrots. Well, they are.

Darn, I was hoping Alpha and Paul were gonna to be wacky partners for a couple episodes.

Ooh, *that’s* why Dr. Amy’s face was all scarry. Must be Alpha’s weapon of choice.

Besides the intense last quarter, this was probably the funniest ep.
Good show. Me want more.

I’m gonna guess if the LA Dollhouse ever gets exposed to the public or if the other Dollhouses learn that the LA branch is close to being revealed, it will be up to the other DH’s to clean it up.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, May 2, 2009 5:50 AM (P)

I KNEW it!

[/sig]

PEULSAR5

Saturday, May 2, 2009 6:52 AM (P)

As I said on another thread: Didn't it feel great to yell "DAMN YOU JOSS WHEDON!!" at the television again?

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:49 AM (P)

Hard to say, I'm hard to please because of FF. Joss has set the bar very high.
------------------------------------------
Here goes nothing:

Ballard is really annoying me. Could it be that Joss wrote the character that way, a la Capt. Hammer, to be the totally inept hero? He goes in alone, obsessed and blind with self-importance, that he totally disregards the fact that this is a highly sophisticated organization that cannot be taken down by one man. Question: Why is he so obsessed with Caroline?

He also ignores the warnings by Boyd that he was endangering Echo's life (and his own for that matter), he had no plan of escape. He just wanted to prove that he was right about the DH. I actually was rooting for Boyd to stop him and 'save' Echo. Joss really likes playing with hero themes and this ep brought it out in spades. I think Boyd here is the Firefly Prince, I get the feeling that he really cares what happens to Echo.
Whereas Ballard, IMO, only wants to prove he's right about the DH. His actions could get Echo killed.

Loved Alan's perf. He was funny and scary at the right time; that usually means good writing. Jane has done it again. Although I did have some minor picadillos - 2 instances actually - when Ballard follows Mellie and sees the garage entrance to the DH and he says, "So, it's real." Spare me please, we know it's real, we don't need him telling us (silence is golden). And again when He and Alpha enter the DH. There was no need for words, a reaction shot would suffice thank you very much. (Am I being to picky, I could never tell).

Topher's moment of pride was actually very shiny. I thought it was his way of giving something back to Echo, after exposing Mr. Dominic.

Back to Alan as Alpha. He used Ballard to run interference for him, and the rest you know. I was convinced he was the building designer, but he was equally good as Alpha. I must see it again to get all the nuances of the dialogue. Did it deliver? Yes, with a few minor annoyances.

Will it be enough to save DH from the chopping block? Jury's still out, but it may very well be too little, too late.
--------------------------------------------

Let me throw in my own question: Do I want more?
Yes, please! Now that "Wash" is here: it gonna get GOOD!

SGG

Tawabawho?

CYBERSNARK

Saturday, May 2, 2009 1:17 PM (P)

After seeing how Echo's imprint was based on the little girl, I was expecting Alan's character to be an imprint based on Topher.

And yeah, I was hoping for more "Helo/Wash" buddy-cop moments.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

BULLETT

Saturday, May 2, 2009 2:25 PM (P)

hi--new here, but couldn't keep myself from commenting on this episode of dollhouse.

i totally did not see alan turning into alpha, i was convinced that he was the eco guy till he cut up victors face. this episode was the best so far.

and i agree that paul only wanted to prove that the dh was there, not to rescue echo.

and wow, what an ending.

i belive in never, i belive in all the way

PHYRELIGHT

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:04 PM (P)

TOTALLY SAW THAT COMING BUT IT WAS STILL JUST AS EXCITING TO WATCH!!

FILLYGIRL

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:47 PM (P)

ALAN WAS AWESOME! and he scared the daylights out of me. Me and my friend at work had figured out a couple of ways it may go, I was one that was right. He was so good! I can't wait to see how 'bad' he really is, I'm sure Alpha is just starting to get his revenge. Its gonna get much worst, and this is the 'perfect enemy', one of their own is gonna destroy them. Excellant as usual, Joss! I just wish they had left you alone for the whole show.
Where does Alpha go from here?

Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

MSA

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:52 PM (P)

Totally seconding the Alan scared me thing... ok maybe he could be a slightly less talented actor and less convincingly eeeeeek. When he slashes Victor suddenly and his face changes it freaked me out!!

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

GWEK

Saturday, May 2, 2009 3:59 PM (P)

A decent episode, as far as Dollhouse episodes go. On the upside, it was "very Joss."

On the downside... "very Joss."

Felt like I've seen most of it before, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but, c'mon, who didn't know Tudyk's character was gonna be Alpha? If you've seen enough of Joss's stuff, you can almost call the MINUTE the reveal was going to happen...

This episode also continued the unfortunate trend where the "mission" (and therefore the Dushku stuff) was pretty boring. I mean, it was an interesting idea, but the execution was pretty weak.

The end twist was cool, but not in an "Oh my God, that's awesome!" way so much as a "Well, okay, not quite what I expected" way. I't also interesting that they've actually figured out a plausible way to have Boyd and Ballard, and possibly even Dominic work together, if they want.

Overall, despite my griping, a decent episode, and I give it a 6/10 (making it probably one of the top three DOLLHOUSE episodes).

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

STINKINGROSE

Saturday, May 2, 2009 5:01 PM (P)

I was on to Alan because of the thread where it was announced that he was going to be playing Alpha. It was nice to see a teensy bit more of his range as an actor. I'm becoming firmly convinced it's bottomless.

Happy to have seen the blindingly obvious, as well!

Who else caught the "Whiskey" reference?

I'd been pretty much convinced that the good doctor was a doll since about the second episode. She's too pretty, not to be a doctor.. just that she's on par with the other dolls in terms of hottiehood. Kind of a coincidence on that one. Plus, waste not want not.. if she's a damaged doll, why not get the most use out of her possible? Imprint her with whatever med school you please, tack on a nice fellowship at a reknowned clinic, and poof: in house excellence and you haven't wasted all that time. Also may be a renegotiation on her contract after unforseen and apparently unfixable damages.

I'm beginning to wonder who's NOT a doll at this point...

CELLARDOOR

Saturday, May 2, 2009 5:20 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by stinkingrose:

I'd been pretty much convinced that the good doctor was a doll since about the second episode. She's too pretty, not to be a doctor.. just that she's on par with the other dolls in terms of hottiehood. Kind of a coincidence on that one. Plus, waste not want not.. if she's a damaged doll, why not get the most use out of her possible?

That's been my line of thinking too for a while; grossly disfiguring scars aside, she's stunningly gorgeous (too much so to just hide away as the doctor who never goes outdoors). So I agree that she probably was a doll (and may still be one in a sense), Alpha slashed her, and the Dollhouse is doing their best to make the most of the lost investment.

They may have even temporarily returned her original personality to ask her if she wanted to continue her involvement on a different level considering what happened and Dr. Saunders was born as we know her. The one timeline-ish thing I can't figure out is that Saunders most definitely recognized Alpha, and if she had been a doll at the time of his composite attack event, wouldn't she have been wiped if they imprinted her with a doctor afterwards? I guess Topher's good enough to imprint a memory of what Alpha looked like on top of any new personalities though. Just speculation, but I hope we do find out a little more!

As for "who is a doll?" I'm pretty sure that if we can believe the diagnosis offered by the Dollhouse in "Echoes," the only people we didn't see react as a doll or as a "regular employee" were Saunders and Ivy. I think last night's episode and the "Whiskey" mention make it clear why we didn't get to see Saunders, but I'm not sure how Ivy matters yet. I'm pretty sure Topher, Adelle, Dominic, and Boyd aren't dolls. Well, I don't think I can say I know much about Boyd at all, actually.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:00 PM (P)

Okay, so what about this: Dr. Saunders was a real person working for the dollhouse, but was cut so badly in the Alpha attack that she died. But before she bled out, they managed an emergency mapping because she was trustworthy and valuable and they thought it best to keep her. Erase a few things, like the memory of her mapping and imminent death, change how she remembered her looks, and implant her into a doll who was also caught in the attack but not killed. Life after death.
It brings up the question, though, that I keep having about the imprinting process. How long does it last? Can you imprint someone and just leave them that way to live their life, or does it have to be refreshed? If the Dr. Saunders doll is being refreshed, wouldn't she know on some level she was a doll when she keeps waking up in the chair? I guess there are a few tangles in that theory, but i do think it likely that she is a doll, I'm just trying to work out the details.

As to the episode, I really loved it, mostly because of Alan. He's a fantastically talented actor and just a joy to watch no matter what he's doing, and especially when he's going from zero to badass like that, damn! Even though I knew it was coming, it played out beautifully. I was glad to see Ballard get beaten up by Boyd, Ballard was kind of annoying me, but really it was all about Alpha. Crazy, badass, sexy Alpha.
Want next episode now plzkthnx!!

[/sig]

PHYRELIGHT

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:15 PM (P)

Ooh! I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who thought Alan looked sexy in this show!

When he first appeared after he changed into the doll's pajamas, I thought, "Doesn't Ballard realize that an agoraphobic pothead doesn't normal have arms like THAT???"

I love that Alan was cast in this role. I knew he'd be perfect because he's very talented and he's not the kind of guy who you would see this coming from. He's the kind of guy upon first impression you instantly want to buddy up to and play Halo. :P

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Ooh! I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who thought Alan looked sexy in this show!

You just wanna take a bite out of him all over!

[/sig]

PHYRELIGHT

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:21 PM (P)

Yeah, but only after you look past the whole lab-experiment-gone-psychotically-wrong thing.

PHOENIXROSE

Saturday, May 2, 2009 7:32 PM (P)

Well... yeah
But Alan himself doesn't have that particular problem...

[/sig]

PHYRELIGHT

Saturday, May 2, 2009 9:09 PM (P)

LOL! Ooooohhhh, sooooo TRUE!!

I wouldn't mind playing Halo with him some time.

SAB39

Saturday, May 2, 2009 11:14 PM (P)

My longshot theory: Ballard is a doll programmed not by the dollhouse, but by Alpha.

Oh and yes I caught the Whiskey thing.

SINGATE

Sunday, May 3, 2009 12:14 AM (P)

Great episode. Alan really nailed the dual nature of the role. He reminded me off a more hyper, pothead version of Topher in the beginning. When he finally went Alpha it was brilliant stuff. Props to Amy Acker, she looked absolutely terrified during that sequence.

Okay, so I'm guessing he and Whiskey came into the dollhouse together. He has returned to rescue her not Echo. It looks like he will use Echo's body to download Whiskey's persona. It also looks as though he has been pulling both Dominic and Ballard's strings from the moment he escaped. In fact the only reason to bring Ballard along was so that he could use him as a diversion.

Speaking of Ballard why does he feel compelled to rescue Caroline but at the same time doesn't trust Mellie/November enough to rescue her? His "you'd kill me" line makes no sense. Echo could just as easily take him out if that is how she was programmed.

I'm saving this episode so that I can watch the final two back to back. I really think this will be the final episode, the series just isn't drawing enough of an audience to warrant a second season. Too bad.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, May 3, 2009 2:27 AM (P)

I think Ballard's line to Millie is in regards to what she told him about being a sleeper agent and not to trust her. "With a flick of a switch you'd turn on me."

That programming may be something subconscious, so maybe it doesn't wipe?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Sunday, May 3, 2009 7:14 AM (P)

What a superb episode.

So many answered question and yet so many more questions unanswered! Fantastic!

I'm a little disappointed that the news of Alan being Alpha was so readily available though, the show's punch wasn't there as a consequence (also I'd held out that Ballard was Alpha - guess I was way off on that one :D). However Alan was sublime, the Boyd/Ballard clash both with fists and ethics was great! More of that please.

As for Alan and Eliza... That was disturbing on so many levels but it's wonderful for the show, absolutely fantastic in fact.

I must admit though now I feel more than ever we're being played with as an audience. With so many folk being 'Dolls' I'm now suspicious of all whom we follow, even to the extent that DeWitt could be one? Just cannot trust anyone.

One question - are we suppose to believe Ballard is in love with Caroline? I'm not getting it at all but then I can't understand why else he'd leave Mellie/November behind for Caroline?

...What a numty!!!

SAB39

Sunday, May 3, 2009 3:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I must admit though now I feel more than ever we're being played with as an audience. With so many folk being 'Dolls' I'm now suspicious of all whom we follow, even to the extent that DeWitt could be one? Just cannot trust anyone.

One question - are we suppose to believe Ballard is in love with Caroline? I'm not getting it at all but then I can't understand why else he'd leave Mellie/November behind for Caroline?

Well that's because Alpha programmed him to be obsessed with Caroline...

(yep, that's my theory and I'm stickin to it)

ECGORDON

Sunday, May 3, 2009 4:14 PM (P)

I woke up around 2am this morning and couldn't get back to sleep. As I was tossing and turning my thoughts turned to Dollhouse, and I got a weird notion about where the story may be heading. I hesitate to even mention it because I am sure I'm totally off base, at least I hope I am and Joss doesn't go there, because it is a truly sick notion. But if I don't mention it and it turns out to be at least close to the mark no one would believe me after the fact. Bear in mind I did not watch the preview of the next episode.

As "Briar Rose" was developing it seemed we would not be getting back to Susan's story, that perhaps it was just a metaphor for Caroline's situation. But why introduce that character but not have a resolution? I was wondering how that engagement came about, who would pay so much money for Echo to get close to an abused child and try to help her? What if Alpha, or at least one of the personalities with which he had been imprinted, is the man who abused her, and he wants her back? What if he is just using Echo to accomplish that goal? If that is the case, who else in the Dollhouse is helping him? Is it Topher or Dr. Saunders, or both, and why?

In any case, even though I have not been totally sold on Dollhouse I have watched all of the eps multiple times and appreciate the fact that it challenges the viewer to think for themselves, unlike so many other shows.

SERGEANTX

Sunday, May 3, 2009 4:50 PM (P)

So... it seemed obvious that Alan was acting like Toffer intentionally. The mannerisms, verbal and physical, were all there. Apparently that was to indicate that Toffer was part of Alpha's original "uberman" imprint. Did anyone else get that vibe? Just me?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
indicate that Toffer was part of Alpha's original "uberman" imprint.

You have to remember that Alpha wasn't an "uberman imprint" he was a composite event that created this crazy uberman. I think he was just drawing on his experience being around Topher as part of his cover acting, but I could be wrong.

[/sig]

SERGEANTX

Sunday, May 3, 2009 6:52 PM (P)

Hmm I thought I remember Boyd, or somebody, asking why they didn't give the dolls all kinds of awesome skills and Toffer replied that they did - with Alpha.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

PHOENIXROSE

Sunday, May 3, 2009 7:01 PM (P)

Boyd asked why they were left defenseless in their 'blank' state and why not make the default imprint ninjas or something, because so many of them had been slaughtered or harmed when Alpha went berserk. Topher replied that they'd tried that (which I took to mean with all the dolls) and the result had been blood, killing, screaming, etc. something along those lines. It is stated several times that Alpha was a 'composite event' with several imprints rushing back to him all at once, giving him MAD skills as well as just driving him mad. The argument that Dominique often made against Echo was that she was 'retaining' and could become 'another Alpha.' Another composite event.

[/sig]

JZIETMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 12:09 AM (P)

Slightly embarrassing at this point, but I didn't get the Whiskey reference. From Firefly? I remember no whiskey in Firefly...

BYTEMITE

Monday, May 4, 2009 12:17 AM (P)

I think Whiskey is "W" in the Nato phonetic alphabet.

Like how Echo is E, Victor is V, Sierra is S...

CELLARDOOR

Monday, May 4, 2009 12:19 AM (P)

Whiskey is one of the phonetic letters in the NATO alphabet, and all of the dolls have a letter name assigned to them. So if Dominic called Saunders Whiskey, well...

(Oops, what ByteMite said!) :P

PHYRELIGHT

Monday, May 4, 2009 1:04 AM (P)

Yeah, if you watch who he is speaking to when he says, "Whiskey," he's saying it to Saunders. Also, keep an eye out on Adelle's reaction: it has a hint of sarcasm. Couple that with Alpha inquiring her if she had always wanted to be a doctor (and a few other scenes from other epps), and it sets up a lot of speculation that Saunders is actually a doll.

JZIETMAN

Monday, May 4, 2009 5:26 AM (P)

Ok, that makes more sense. I didn't really understand that part of the episode when I watched it; I thought he randomly wanted whiskey instead of the tranquilizer... I guess I'm not up to date on my Dollhouse discussion!

ZEEK

Monday, May 4, 2009 3:43 PM (P)

Glad you guys pointed out the NATO letters. I knew whiskey meant something, but I couldn't figure out what. I wonder why Alpha slashes but doesn't kill Saunders and Victor. I also wonder what the imprint is that he gave to Echo. Is it Caroline or someone else entirely? If it's someone totally different then why choose her? Really interested to find out their history.

I think the Susan engagement is what Echo is going to remember to escape Alpha. She's going to feel trapped like she needs to run away. She'll go all composite and have all the skills she needs to take Alpha on. She'll finally get to save herself.

FILLYGIRL

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 5:33 AM (P)

My theory on why he slashes them is so they can't work,...nobody would hire somebody so 'deformed', and all the 'dolls' are pretty. I think everybody is a 'doll' at this point,...love how this whole thing has been "Alpha's" story, not the "Dollhouse's" or Echo's. Thats Joss!

Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion

Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

ZEEK

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 2:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by fillygirl:
I think everybody is a 'doll' at this point

I figured the show would go that route actually. Sorta like their own version of who's a cylon. However, in the episode "Echoes" we see Dolls reacting differently to the drug than regular people do. We saw Topher, DeWitt, Boyd and Dominick all have the "regular person" reaction. So, that should rule them out as dolls.

I also find it strange that this episode claims they are under ground when in "Spy in the House of Love" we see Dominick hold Echo out the window with the street and cars below them outside. At the very least DeWitt's office is not underground.

ASARIAN

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by stinkingrose:

Who else caught the "Whiskey" reference?

I realized it the moment Dominic said it. :)

Quote:

I'd been pretty much convinced that the good doctor was a doll since about the second episode. She's too pretty, not to be a doctor.. just that she's on par with the other dolls in terms of hottiehood. Kind of a coincidence on that one. Plus, waste not want not.. if she's a damaged doll, why not get the most use out of her possible? Imprint her with whatever med school you please, tack on a nice fellowship at a reknowned clinic, and poof: in house excellence and you haven't wasted all that time. Also may be a renegotiation on her contract after unforseen and apparently unfixable damages.

I've always considered the good Doctor a hottie. Can't say as I really saw this coming, though. But her being a doll was foreshadowed in the episode where Echo 'made' Dominic (when Claire attests to never much leaving the Dollhouse, really).

But didn't our cute Doctor also not concoct that neural inhibitor/whatever thingy in 'Needs' that would affect all dolls? Didn't that 'prove' none of the Dollhouse staff were dolls? Must go watch it again.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:52 PM (P)

I have a feeling, before Alpha composited, he was having reactions to Echo like Victor did to Sierra. And when Alpha composited, he remembers his feelings for Echo and that's why he never slashed her or killed her in his previous escape.

If that's true, then I'm curious how Victor's feelings for Sierra might come out if the Dollhouse is forced to give Victor a permanent imprint to keep him around. Hopefully not in an ick way...

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Thursday, May 7, 2009 2:47 AM (P)

I actually didn't catch the "whiskey" reference until I read this, but that would be interesting if the doctor was a doll. But would she have been a doll initially, or did they make her specifically to be a doctor?

Also, Alan Tudyk being evil was scary...

FREELANCERTEX

Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:08 PM (P)

i was a liiiiiittle disappointed with how the Alpha/Echo story turned out. Kinda hoped he'd be wanting to save her for a different reason, not to turn her into whatever bad-girl he imprinted her with to match his whacked-out personality. still, i'm wondering what we'll find out this week.

Also, with the whole "Whiskey" thing, if Saunders *is* Whiskey, and Alpha imprinted Echo with Whiskey's persona from when they came into the Dollhouse, it doesn't make sense that he'd cut up Whiskey if it was her he really wanted to rescue, im thinkin Echo is someone else, more like the Victor/Sierra thing like ByteMite was saying. seems more plausible cuz he doesnt seem to like saunders too much. iunno.

ASARIAN

Friday, May 8, 2009 1:36 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by freelancertex:
Also, with the whole "Whiskey" thing, if Saunders *is* Whiskey, ...

Saunders *is* Whiskey, no doubt about it. And I don't think it was Alpha who imprinted her as 'Whiskey' -- that was the Dollhouse staff, after Alpha had slashed her up (which is to say, she was always 'Whiskey', but only the 'permanent' Doctor persona after Alpha mutilated her).

Quote:

... and Alpha imprinted Echo with Whiskey's persona from when they came into the Dollhouse, it doesn't make sense that he'd cut up Whiskey if it was her he really wanted to rescue,

I'm confused. No, wait; maybe you're confused. :) At any rate, I don't recall Echo being imprinted with Whiskey's persona at all. Certainly not with the Whiskey 'Doctor' persona. Far as I know, we do not (yet) know which persona Alpha programmed Echo with: obviously a girl waiting for her prince; but beyond that...

N.B. Though understandable, what with her former handler Boyd and all, I felt 'annoyed' at Echo's making Ballard trip. Dunno why, but it bothered me. It's like an abused child choosing the perp's side, or some such.

Speaking of which, I didn't care much for the whole 'Echo being imprinted with the persona of an abused child' theme... again! it was great, original, and effective in the pilot; the second time (albeit with a slight variation), not so much.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

FREELANCERTEX

Friday, May 8, 2009 1:48 AM (P)

im going off of previous comments.

i cant stand ballard, besides, it kind of made sense cuz all of her retained memories of him are bad, whereas all of her retained memories of boyd aren't.