How messed up are you?
POSTED BY: Iremisst
UPDATED: Thursday, January 21, 2010 23:52
VIEWED: 19099
PAGE 1 of 1
I know that a lot of y'all are or have been out of work in recent times and with all the debate on health care I got to wondering... Really, how messed up are you (or people you know) ?? What things have you done to get by without healthcare (recent or in the past, funny or not)? What's the longest you have ever gone without it? What makes you the most angry about today's system? Are you for or against reform? Please keep your political agendas out of it!!! Also, I'd love to hear from some of the flans from other countries about their systems, too!!
And yes, I know this ain't got much to do with Firefly, but hell, a full third of the posts in here don't- So don't preach at me, Book! <<< There's yer reference, am I legitimate now?
Complain away folks, I'm listening!
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I think you are the only one messed up JACK.
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Come on and answer me here people, nobody has posted here yet!!!
Damn shame, too- on such an important topic...
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Luckily I'm Australian so we get basic healthcare for free. where I luck out is the non basic but necessary for me stuff. I have Mod-severe Tourette's so this means occasiaonal sprains strain dislocations and stress fractures. Can't afford physiotherapy and am not covered for it. so at the moment I am nursing an injured right arm: partially dislocated it 3 mnths ago due to overzealous twitchyfication, accidenatlly pinched a nerve when I clicked it back in...nerve still pinched...need physio...can't afford it...waiting till I can't move my arm at all and then will get it sorted at emergency department which is free here. Unfortunately I have to wait till my arm is completely F___ked up before I can have it fixed. oh well I have the other arm.
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You might have more like in the RWED sub board down below
Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists 
Lets party like its 1939
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God, that's gotta be dehumanizing, Boris... I'm sure that the mostly uninjured arm isn't much help anyway and to have the other almost imcapacited and painfully, too. Is a partial dislocation not considered emergent care in Austrailia or were you not in a position to make it to the hospital? Or did you think you were not that badly injured? Or not wanna deal with doctors? I understand that last one!
My mother has a job with a flexible schedule that allows her to volunteer with the fuzzy-wuzzies but has no insurance... anyway three days ago she fell on her truck and completely dislocated her shoulder...She still in massive pain and also can't afford therapy, or the hospital visit... My Grandmother wanted to take her to a CHIROPRACTER because she thought it'd be CHEAPER!!I have a whole book worth of problems in my family...
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Just now realized am in talk story, very tired tonight, oh well.
Here's as good a place as any, we'll hold till you get back!
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I went four years without visiting the dentist. When I got something that was kind of like coverage through a job and started going again, I was informed I had something close to twenty cavities. With (limited) help from the insurance, and some help from family, and some just stretching my 
ing shoestring til it almost snapped, I've had about $3000 worth of work done this year. Work that probably could have been partially avoided if I hadn't been terrified of paying my own dental costs when I 'grew up.'
I haven't had new glasses or an eye exam for three years now. I can still see, but not as well as I might.
I went to my first doctor's appointment in well over a decade this year, because my mother was kind (and concerned) enough to pay for it. My thyroid might have problems. My adrenals might have problems. They might both have problems or there might be problems elsewhere. Right now all we know is what I've known for years; I'm fatigued and worn down a lot of the time, I have trouble getting to sleep, I crave food when I'm not hungry, and getting myself moving is pretty much a chore. If this D.O. can find out where the problems lie, he might be able to help me. We're trying to figure out a way to pay for testing. If I had insurance coverage beyond 'catastrophic' (which is almost more than I can really afford) then insurance might pay for some of the testing, though they generally refuse to pay for appointments with a D.O. so I would still be on my own paying to get the care and help I actually need.
So far in my life I have avoided serious debt. I've done that by going without. My whole family, a great deal of the time, has gone without. When there's a windfall, we usually celebrate with a trip to some kind of health care practitioner. So. Yeah. How messed up is THAT?
Do I think we need health care reform? No, I don't think 'reform' can even be a part of that sentence. We need health care. Right now, the caring for of health is pretty much nonexistent. And the caring for someone in poor health seems to fall pretty far below the 50% line. From where I stand, it's pretty remarkable I'm as healthy as I am. If I was actually allowed to care for that health instead of having to wait until something was ready to fall apart, or even beyond that point, I'd be in far better shape than I am.
My bottom line on the whole subject is that insurance companies and their greedy, uncaring agenda need to die. In a fire. Whoever can do that... whoever is willing to do that... will have my support. I voted for this guy who talked about doing something like that, but he's kinda pissing me off at this point. If big pharma and insurance companies are allowed to carry on as they have, controlling all the money and all the power and a whole lot of the available information... a lot of people are going to be miserable and unhealthy. Just like now. And they'll wonder why and they'll pop another pill that's all the treatment they can get coverage for, and they're not going to get any healthier. I really don't like being in that kind of world.
So how messed up am I? I'm less messed up than a lot of people, and I think that's pretty sad.
[/sig]
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A long while ago, my wife got pregnant with our first daughter. Turned out to be officially a high-risk pregnancy, because of a back injury and some other factors. I changed jobs before we found out. In those days, a new employer would insure you after 30 days, not 6 months like it is often now. New employers' insurance immediately declared it was a pre-existing condition and said they wouldn't cover it. We went thru a local hospital high risk clinic, and except for a few extra tests, had no unusual troubles; carried to term, normal natural childbirth, mother and baby fine. Kid had some medical problems later, unrelated, we think, just normal child-developmental stuff, and she's in her 30's now. But I still carry that insurance company's name around in my head and will not take a job with any company that offers their insurance-- I've turned some down for that very reason and no other. I won't name them, but it's an easy name to guess-- It's got a color and an item of clothing, well, armor, anyway in it .
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Blue Cross Blue Shield is widely recognized as the 'original' insurance company. As such, they are evil. The great evil that comes before evil. Harbinger, one might say. You do well to shun them, good sir.
I'm glad momma and baby made it through without issue. [/sig]
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I generally won't go to a doctor unless there are bones sticking out through the skin. And only occasionally even then. Anything less than that, and I just find it too much of a hassle trying to deal with the insurance BS, and too expensive otherwise.
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The W.H.O. ranks Canada and the UK above the USA on their so-called list. Their list is based upon numbers treated for the cheapest price and does not take into consideration the quality. Would you go to any other country to seek treatment? You get what you pay for... end of story... well not yet.
Example 1 - 70 yr old male in Canada. Bladder Cancer. Waited 6 mo's after diagnosis to remove and have a stoma put in. Neo-Bladder and replacement growth bladder surgery is unavailable. S.O.P. when operating in the stomach region is to take out the appendix. Canada does not follow this S.O.P.... too expensive. 2 days later the patient has his appendix burst and dies after a number of attempts to repair. Real story...My Uncle.
Example 2 - 75 yr old female in Canada. Severe back pain. Needs surgery. She is told she will have to wait 9 mo's for surgery. She waited 10 mo's in extreme pain. Real story...My Aunt.
Example 3 - It is illegal in the UK to purchase a cortisone shot even with a prescription from a doctor if you are 65yrs or older. Hope you don't have severe joint pain. Real story... Uncle on vacation.
The moral of the story... suck it up and pay for the best care or you will get a system where you will not be able to get care even if you can pay.
p.s. Costa Rica ranks higher on the W.H.O. list than the U.S. but I wouldn't rush off to seek care there.
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I have no health insurance.
22
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I'm still relatively young and healthy. I have healthcare but I don't use it much. So, far the system has been fine for me. I'm guessing that will change as soon as I need something.
I'm still in favor of reform. I just see the system as inherently flawed when the insurance companies make money by denying care. I would be fine with reform just saying that healthcare companies can make no more than 5% profit and anything else has to be evenly distributed back to their customers. It would remove a lot of their incentive to deny care to those who need it.
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I'm with Kwicko, EVERY time I've gone to the Dr. about ANYTHING that required an X-ray, I got billed directly even though I am insured. And then I get threatened. I have to jump through such stupidly vicious hoops in that way, I won't go unless it's just to, like, ask a QUESTION. "Is that skin cancer? No? Just an infection/mole/whatever? Okay, thanks."
Broken bones I'll set myself.
F***ing insurance companies.
The laughing Chrisisall
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So we have
denied care
lack of care
improper care
expense of diagnostic
expense of treatment
improper billing practices
Do you all feel like you have ACCESS even if you don't use it?
What about end-of-life management?
Anybody watch House MD?
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They do deal with partial dislocations in Aus emergency. I have just become a bit blase about them as they are a frequent occurence, so I just tend to roll them back in when they happen... unfortunately this time something got nipped or twisted and thats when things get complicated care wise. I could go to emergency but would get triaged down or sent to a GP which I would have to pay for. plus If I wait till twitch related injuries are really bad I may get a free Neuro consult now instead of waiting the 7 months til my scheduled appointment. It sounds a lot worse than it is. I'm used to this process, and its only a prob when the Tourettes gets really bad as it is now. and even then I manage to go to work and school etc so its not totally incapacitating. Hope your mother recovers, Full dislocations are very nasty and very painful. worse than fractures.
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Quote:That's called a grenade.
Originally posted by Iremisst:
What about end-of-life management?
Ever see "Aliens?"
The laughing Chrisisall
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Yea, from here it does look pretty bad, but I have always said Life is all about what you have to get used to. It just sounds so horrible to have to bargain off pain levels with a health uncare system...Something I understand personally all too well, and yet still it makes me enraged. In my case, When I was 13 I started having joint problems, and walked on the sides of my feet for six months and the only person that noticed was the school janitor...
Anyway the doctors here see so many miserable people who let things go so long -mostly 'cause they have to financially- that the doctors own reality is...twisted, and so they end up marginalizing big things like children in pain- people in ridiculous amonts of pain! And they want you to beg for the pills you need just to get by! And I swear everyone I know is broke! In more ways than one!
Don't get me wrong, not trying to unload on you Boris... Just so sick of the way things are, and feeling so helpless to change anything,ever, ever! I don't think ANY great number of policy changes is going to change anything, either...
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I'll take drowning, thanks Chrisisall, keep your filthy grenades!
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Quote:
Example 1 - 70 yr old male in Canada. Bladder Cancer. Waited 6 mo's after diagnosis to remove and have a stoma put in. Neo-Bladder and replacement growth bladder surgery is unavailable. S.O.P. when operating in the stomach region is to take out the appendix. Canada does not follow this S.O.P.... too expensive. 2 days later the patient has his appendix burst and dies after a number of attempts to repair. Real story...My Uncle.
Example 2 - 75 yr old female in Canada. Severe back pain. Needs surgery. She is told she will have to wait 9 mo's for surgery. She waited 10 mo's in extreme pain. Real story...My Aunt.
Example 3 - It is illegal in the UK to purchase a cortisone shot even with a prescription from a doctor if you are 65yrs or older. Hope you don't have severe joint pain. Real story... Uncle on vacation.
Example 1 - 65 yr old male. Much-decorated Vietnam veteran. Purple heart, bronze star, silver star, all buried in the bottom of his sock drawer and never spoken about. Diagnosed with "cirrhosis of the liver" and sent on his way. Nobody even wanted to listen to him when he explained that he didn't drink alcohol, and never had. Four years later, he was finally diagnosed with liver cancer, which by then had spread to his brain, stomach, and lungs. He was given less than a month, and fought on for a year before succumbing. Real story... My Dad.
Example 2 - 32 yr old male. Severe back pain, subpluxation of vertebra in lower back (vertebra slips sideways and forward, pinching the spinal cord), which causes excrutiating pain and loss of mobility and inability to walk, stand, or sit. No insurance, told to basically "walk it off". Lived with the pain for 15 years now. When it's bad, I occasionally dream of suicide and stockpile illegally-obtained prescription painkillers, and keep a loaded gun by the bed, "just in case there are no more good days". When it's good, I only have to stretch for an hour and soak in a hot tub to get up and around for the day. Real story... Myself.
Example 3 - 45 yr old male. Crushed big toe, when a 350-pound pallet dropped on foot after falling off truck. Toe popped like a grape, bone shattered. (This was the third time for that toe, so the bone is basically powder at this point...) Went to emergency clinic, and was told to "try to stay off it for six weeks". Asked the doctor if he ever worked for a living. He didn't get it. Real story... Myself again.
So it seems we're at least as adequate at providing really horrible healthcare here in the good old US-of-Fuckin'-A. And as an added bonus, we also get the benefit of paying two to four hundred times as much for the "privilege".
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:That's called a grenade.
Originally posted by Iremisst:
What about end-of-life management?
Ever see "Aliens?"
The laughing Chrisisall
Three words: "Paging Doctor Kevorkian."
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Ewwww to the toe thing, did it heal ok?????
Do ya have any feeling in it & does it LOOK like a toe still?
Saw a Ziggy catoon this morning said; "Laughter is the best medicine, I want you to go home and giggle twice a day" which sounds about right...
If everybody is FOR humane assisted euthanasia, then why can't we set up some regulation for it?
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Well, hope you take a lesson from what happened to your dad and get all your tests and really learn to fight with the doctors...It's the only way... If you don't fight for your own life, ain't no one else gonna!
My dad went to the doctor 4!!! times for E.D. and frequent urination the year he finally got diagnosed with prostate cancer, and they never once ran a g*dd@am p.s.a. test... by the time they caught it it's too late. And it's not like they didn't know my father's parents both died of cancer, oh and two of my great grandparents, too, the doctors always say "Well, you can't think you'll get it, too- you just have to live your life" And a short one it will be too, if you let them tell you that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by 22Claws:
I have no health insurance.
How old are you? 22?
And how long have you not had any insurance?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iremisst:
Ewwww to the toe thing, did it heal ok?????
Do ya have any feeling in it & does it LOOK like a toe still?
It healed, mostly. Still throbs like a sumbitch sometimes. It looks like a toe, only canted over to the left a bit. The toenail even grew back, eventually. :)
As for getting tests, etc., good luck. You pay for 'em out of pocket, and if they DO find something, then you're magically either found to have a "pre-existing" condition, or they just drop you anyway. Awesome system we've got here.
I won't go to the doctor precisely because I'm afraid they MIGHT find something, and then I'd be royally screwed.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Toe popped like a grape,
BTW, I will never look at a squished grape the same way ever again
Could I reccommend a good titanium/steel re-inforced boot?
Simon: Could you just.. not.. do that again..EVER!
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Well, I feel limited about replying to this thread by keeping any political views out of it, but here goes.
I paid for my own healthcare for about 10 yrs, w/ no insurance, and now pay for my own insurance. I take care of myself so I don't have to pay as much, which is what we all should do. I don't smoke, ( never have ) and keep my bp and cholesterol in check so I don't have any prescriptions.
There is no 'crisis' in healthcare. That's how I see it.
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Quote:
There is no 'crisis' in healthcare. That's how I see it.
Not to get too horribly off-topic, but that's the problem - you're basing your diagnosis of the ENTIRE healthcare system off of YOUR subjective experience.
If I were to apply that kind of logic to, say, national security, I could say that there 100% is absolutely no possible threat of any future terrorist actions against the USA, because I personally have never been the subject of a terrorist attack. And unemployment doesn't even exist in this country, because I've got a job.
I really, honestly hope you never lose your job and insurance coverage and then get sick, because you'll find out real quick that once that happens, you're basically out on your own, FOREVER, when it comes to anything even remotely connected (however tenuously) to that "pre-existing" condition of yours.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iremisst:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Toe popped like a grape,
BTW, I will never look at a squished grape the same way ever again
Could I reccommend a good titanium/steel re-inforced boot?
Simon: Could you just.. not.. do that again..EVER!
Sorry 'bout that.
Never found a steel-toe that felt comfortable. Hard enough just to find ANY shoes in my size. Perils of wearing a size 15 shoe...
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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you and my dear old grandpa, they had one store that carried size 15 house slippers, so that's what he wore...house slippers....EVERYWHERE!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, I feel limited about replying to this thread by keeping any political views out of it, but here goes.
I take care of myself so I don't have to pay as much, which is what we all should do.
There is no 'crisis' in healthcare. That's how I see it.
First, I find that politics, religion (and if you know the country song>>HER) when entered into the equation of a well-mannered discussion, bring emotionalism in and then the discussion is shot to hell
You will never really find me discussing any of those things in open forum.
I might say one or two things but then leave the room, not everyone's cuppa tea, but if someone else puts specific rules in their post I try to follow them out of common decency.
Second, you take care of yourself...GREAT, then you are not currently part of the problem... But for those people who have so many health problems that (through no fault of their own) simply taking care of yourself becomes a Herculean task, so I feel that shouldering some of the burden is the task of our semi-civilized society... Consider yourself blessed to have such unencumbered physical DNA.
Thirdly, while I asked for your oppinions and I appreciate you taking the time to make a contribution, if you think there is no heathcare crisis in this country, then you simply do not know enough people, especially veterans.
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I'm lucky enough to live in a country with health-care. Except in rare exceptional cases, it's readily available to all, no matter what some scare-mongers would have the American people believe.
Given my health problems, the injuries I have suffered in my life, and the fact that I am incredibly poor (despite having worked hard at my education and being well-qualified as a result), if I'd been born and raised in the USA I'd be very messed up indeed. In fact I'd probably be dead by now.
The UK has a lot of problems, but our NHS has done well by me.
"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."
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I like the remarks by your countryman Daniel Hannan.
Only the rich in the UK can afford private insurance with private doctors so that they do not have to queue-up for visits and then wait for months for a surgery.
Then this...
"Thirdly, while I asked for your oppinions and I appreciate you taking the time to make a contribution, if you think there is no heathcare crisis in this country, then you simply do not know enough people, especially veterans."
Who runs the VA system? The Federal Government? and people want to turn the whole thing over to them.
The US Constitution gives limited power to Congress. One is to regulate interstate commerce. Letting companies compete across state lines like auto insurance is exactly what is called for by the Constitution here.
Who knows the price of a blood test and a 15 minute GP consultation? The price varies by insurance company.
What is the price of breast augmentation? Because we pay out of pocket for cosmetic/elective surgery the price has come down and more innovative procedures have been implemented.
Every woman who has breast augmentation knows their surgeon, anesthesiologist, nurses, costs, recovery time, and the reputation of all involved. They also shopped around and got the best price too.
You get what you pay for. Instead of a new car at $500/mo + gas + insurance + tax + tags, buy a used vehicle and get yourself covered. I guess you have to have priorities or big brother can pay for everything and you have to wait your turn and ask permission. Your choice.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
take care of myself so I don't have to pay as much, which is what we all should do. I don't smoke, ( never have ) and keep my bp and cholesterol in check so I don't have any prescriptions.
I don't smoke. I never have. I don't drink. I never have. I don't pump any form of chemical into my body. I never have. I'm healthier than most people, but that doesn't mean I'm perfect and never need care. Seeing as I'm a college student from a middle class (at best) background, I don't have gobs of money to throw at basic care. I believe I mentioned the toll my dental bills have been taking. This wasn't a case of me never brushing my teeth or flooding them with sugar every day. I've had tartar and plaque problems for as long as I can remember, and nothing I do on my own solves the problem, I need professional care every once in awhile. Likewise, nothing I did led to my vision problems. My eyes just kind of started failing when I was nine. I don't have the money to throw at that right now, so I wear old glasses. I take care of them, and they've lasted me for years, but there's nothing I can do on my own to fix my eyes or enhance my vision. So. Yeah. By all means, take care of yourself, I think that should be first and foremost for all people. Do research, do what you can, absolutely keep yourself healthy. But don't think that means nothing will ever happen to you, nothing will ever go wrong, nothing will need to be covered. Healthy people should get free or reduced health care, since they put less strain on the system than people who don't care for themselves and destroy their bodies. But even healthy people, like me, can be refused care because I'm not perfect. And that is outrageous. Whatever you might say, you cannot convince me that it's right that I'm refused coverage at a cheaper company, just because there may or may not be something amiss with my glands. I mean, really.
[/sig]
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4 years without a dentist and you knew you were prone to cavities and such. I don't have dental or vision coverage and I pay out of pocket. Every six months I get a dental cleaning and every year I get x-rays. $80 for the cleaning and $50 for the x-rays. A bit less than $3000 and pain. An educated health consumer is a healthy consumer.
What I do. I have an acidic mouth. I always have. I am prone to getting cavities and canker sores if I ever bite my cheek and stuff. I use Pro-Namel, and Listerine twice a day. I also floss everyday.
So I spent $840 and 8 visits to the dentist in 4 years vs $3000 and 1 visit. You get what you pay for.
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Yes. Thank you. Because of course I had the money to visit the dentist and I just opted not to. Guess I shouldn't have paid for silly things like... food. And shelter. And transportation so I could continue getting to work. I didn't even buy clothes for six years. Or new glasses for three. OF COURSE there was wiggle room in my budget. Goddamn, how did I miss that? [/sig]
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Not saying your lazy or anything but I put myself through college and worked one full time and two part time jobs. I paid for the health care that I could afford because I have had a catastrophic illness. Pre-existing condition has always been a part of my life and will always be. I shop around but I suck it up. I shop for the best dentist and I pay for visits. I don't gamble, drink, smoke, or go out to fancy restaurants. I have been unemployed now for three years. I am racking up the debt in student loans as I finish up my masters. I currently work three part time jobs to get by since my unemployment ran out. Unemployment just made me a lazy dependent.
So if you are disabled, have an IQ less than 75, or struggle with an addiction you can find programs to help. Otherwise, toughen up buttercup and pay for what you get.
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Quote:
Originally posted by xraftermanx:
Not saying your lazy or anything but I put myself through college and worked one full time and two part time jobs. I paid for the health care that I could afford because I have had a catastrophic illness. Pre-existing condition has always been a part of my life and will always be. I shop around but I suck it up. I shop for the best dentist and I pay for visits. I don't gamble, drink, smoke, or go out to fancy restaurants. I have been unemployed now for three years. I am racking up the debt in student loans as I finish up my masters. I currently work three part time jobs to get by since my unemployment ran out. Unemployment just made me a lazy dependent.
So if you are disabled, have an IQ less than 75, or struggle with an addiction you can find programs to help. Otherwise, toughen up buttercup and pay for what you get.
Easy for you to say, AFTER taking all the unemployment you could.
Thing is, if you AREN'T disabled, have an IQ more than 75, and don't struggle with an addiction, you're shit outta luck on the getting any kind of help department. Unless you're you, sucking on the government teat while claiming IT made you lazy, instead of admitting that your laziness made you lazy, and you sucked the tit for all it was worth, because of your own laziness.
Glad to hear you finally toughened up, though.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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I paid into the unemployment for 12 years and what I call being lazy during that period was searching for jobs and being shot down. Applying for one job opening with hundreds of other applicants. Rejection is a bitch especially if its for a job that you are over-qualified for and don't even want.
I made a choice to interview for jobs and take on an extra class towards my masters rather than take odd jobs, or a minimum wage job that would just reduce the unemployment benefits. The choice was easy. I just worked harder at school.
I've never been laid off in my life and I collected a fraction of what I put in. Detroit has a 30% unemployment rate. I count myself lucky just to be so underemployed and to be racking up the student loans to better myself.
I may have chosen poorly on a masters though. I'm getting certified to teach and my masters at the same time. The can't beat join em' adage. Yet the aging teachers are not retiring and now schools are laying off. The masters will allow me to teach at a college level but only as adjunct faculty. Its tough to get the full time gig. So I will work multiple jobs for a few more years to come.
Hope that addresses the laziness question. Even with the fullest of full loads I have a 3.7 average and I am on the Deans List. Lazy people don't make the Deans List.
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Quote:
Originally posted by xraftermanx:
Every six months I get a dental cleaning and every year I get x-rays. $80 for the cleaning and $50 for the x-rays. A bit less than $3000 and pain.
I don't know where you been gettin' your teeth cleaned, But I've done extensive shopping around in my area and almost everyone charges $200 or more for a cleaning and $100 bucks for xrays and misc. fees these days, sorry no dental colleges here. God forbid you actually have a cavity. I have pretty healthy teeth but messed up roots and nerves and have had to have two root canals. And I'm a frugal son-of-a-gun so if we had been even slighly worse off, woulda just had to have them pulled. On top of that my husband had to have molars (wisdom teeth) surgically removed $500 (six years ago) so for your average family things add up, & too quickly!
But the thing I have the most problem with is your seeming lack of compassion. Peoples lives are complicated, and who are you to judge? Are you perfect? I believe for the most part people try to keep up but everyone needs to ask for help at some point in thier lives, so congrats if you've gotten by, some don't. And it sounds like to me that maybe you haven't had enough compassion in your own life so in taking a tough stance you'll feel better about yourself and your own lack of support...
On that note, I'm sorry you have been out of work for so long, I know how hard it is.
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Also you REALLY should know that harsh mouthwashes have been known for years to be a major contributer to mouth and throat cancers and the FDA has known for years, also they may be making your acidic mouth problem even worse... you might want to try Biotene mouth wash (cvs &walgreens have it) It uses natural ingredients and has mouth lubricants and doesn't kill the helpful bacteria you need in your mouth...Just FYI
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Thank you for that. I do feel for you. I do not want to diminish any hardships that you are going through or have gone through.
In my family a top priority is health. You could say we are cursed with large and small problems. I have a big family so we have seen a lot. I had A-plastic anemia and a bone marrow transplant when I was 3. My mom has PBC and had a liver transplant 16 years ago. My dad had bladder cancer and had it removed 7 years ago. My brother was born with Downs Syndrome and died in surgery. My sister has hypothyroidism. My aunts, uncles, and cousins have a plethora of other ailments.
If we didn't have health insurance we would be paying until we died. Yet that is the way it should be if you are able to afford it and do not purchase it. I take care of my teeth and pay for those dental visits because I have learned the costs of missing a cleaning and having a tiny cavity and paying for it in cash and pain.
I have heard through my parents and their chronies in AZ that some dentist who practice in the US also practice in Mexico for half the price. So that's one way. I saw the work on one guy down there who had a mouthful of trouble and it was good work. Prices in Detroit are cheap. Housing is cheap, buildings are cheap, and a company's overhead is cheap. A little scary sometimes. Murder rate is higher in Detroit than it is in Bagdad. True fact.
Just don't let one entity control any industry. Otherwise we'll get what we had with the phone company years ago. The big innovation for 50 years was the invention of touch tone.
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If you can send me links to peer-reviewed studies and a FDA warning I'll stop using Listerine. The active ingredient in Listerine is alcohol. So if it is true and the studies are peer-reviewed and statistically significant then everyone who drinks adult beverages would have a case.
I'll check into Biotene though. I am always up to try something new. Thanks for the tip.
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Just don't let one entity control any industry. Otherwise we'll get what we had with the phone company years ago. The big innovation for 50 years was the invention of touch tone.
You DO have one entity controlling the industry: the health insurance lobby.
Seems you're making an argument for ALLOWING a government-run option. Allowing a not-for-profit insurance option DOES NOT turn control of the entire industry over to the government, unless you readily admit that having only a for-profit industry such as we have now gives control of the entire industry to for-profit insurance companies, which care nothing for your health and everything for their wealth.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iremisst:
You will never really find me discussing any of those things in open forum.
I might say one or two things but then leave the room, not everyone's cuppa tea, but if someone else puts specific rules in their post I try to follow them out of common decency.
Second, you take care of yourself...GREAT, then you are not currently part of the problem... But for those people who have so many health problems that (through no fault of their own) simply taking care of yourself becomes a Herculean task, so I feel that shouldering some of the burden is the task of our semi-civilized society... Consider yourself blessed to have such unencumbered physical DNA.
Thirdly, while I asked for your oppinions and I appreciate you taking the time to make a contribution, if you think there is no heathcare crisis in this country, then you simply do not know enough people, especially veterans.
You asked for input, and I gave it. Your reply was to claim that I " don't know enough people". Whether I do or not, that's irrelevant. But the concept of a 'crisis' is greatly overused in this country, and in this matter. Saying there's not a crisis isn't saying all's peachy and perfect. There's a lot of middle ground between the two. Now, 'crisis' might be a more accurate word to describe how the Gov't runs the VA Hospital, which I consider separate ( for the time being ) to healthcare for the general public.
Finally, I'll just say this. No one should be forced by the Federal Gov't to pay for someone else's healthcare. ( Those who serve in the military obviously fall outside of that area )
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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In an attempt to respond to the inital thread inquiry:
There have been times when I went without insurance, but I'm still young (in relative terms of course) and I simply took the risk. I currently am covered and yes, it is pricey, but it's the way things are.
I have only had to invoke a claim once in the past 5 years. In 2007 my wife and I flew to California for a wedding. On a journey down the pacific coast highway we decided to stop at a scenic coastal cliff ridge. While my wife went down to the water to dip her toes I (stupidly) thought I might poke around the rock cliff. In flip flops I attempted to scale something that soldiers of the 10th Mountain Division wouldn't have tried. Short story: I fell 15 feet onto a boulder. I was VERY lucky and suffered only a broken finger on my left hand. (Sounded like a piece of dry kindling snapping when it broke).
The time spent in a California ER was horrible. I got labeled a low priority and sat in an ER hallway chair as they attended a heart attack and a burn victim. Eventually an X-ray indicated that the finger was off-joint with a shard floating in the meat. The doc said he could re-set and asked if I wanted a local. I said no suspecting that each and every thing I got that added even a penny of cost would somehow balloon later. So without a local he reset my finger as I sat in that ER hallway chair. It was horribly painful yes....but the honest thing about pain (chris might understand this from his martial arts) is that once you achieve a certain level of it you kinda just find a way to dwell with it until it ends. It stops getting worse....it just IS.
The whole experience cost me a four figure sum WITH insurance and I've often questioned why that was. I turned down the local and refused to take any drugs from them. I never got quartered in a room, having sat in a hallway chair for free the whole 5 hours. The only real costs to the hospital were the X-ray, 45 minutes of a doctors time, 20 minutes of the X-ray tech's time, and the time spent by the admitting receptionist on my admission and release paperwork. When you further consider that those folks were ALREADY at work anyway, what was the real cost?
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Quote:
Those who serve in the military obviously fall outside of that area
Why? Why should I be forced to pay for the healthcare of people who volunteered to go and kill and be killed? Why should I reward them for killing? It was their choice - let THEM pay for it. Nobody should be forced by the federal government to pay for someone else's healthcare, right? Right?
If military, why not cops? If cops, why not firefighters? Teachers? Who's to say who contributes to this nation, and what that contribution is worth?
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But the concept of a 'crisis' is greatly overused in this country...
On that, we agree. I hate it when they blather on and on about the "terror crisis", when there is clearly no such thing. Gunshot wounds kill ten times as many people every year as terrorists killed on 9/11. Car accidents kill another 10,000 more than that. The freaking FLU kills 30,000 every single year, and there's no crisis there. If 42,000 people dying every year in this country due to not having health insurance isn't a crisis, and if 40 MILLION of us being uninsured ISN'T a crisis, I don't see any reason why we'd ever even worry about 3000 dead in a ginned up "crisis" having to do with alleged terrorism.
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Quote:Yeah, there's pain that means bad is happening, and pain from just the follow-up to bad. The latter is just an experience in tolerance. No biggie in the long run. Like when I had an infected wisdom tooth extracted- the novacaine didn't work, but I knew the pain wasn't a sign of damage, just *adjustment*.
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
It was horribly painful yes....but the honest thing about pain (chris might understand this from his martial arts) is that once you achieve a certain level of it you kinda just find a way to dwell with it until it ends. It stops getting worse....it just IS.
In the words of the great Max Guevarra, whatever.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Kwicko-
You must be very young or maybe just naive. Perhaps you would like to go work for the BlueSun.
Simplest terms. A Free Market with multiple companies and competition brings down prices and gives incentives for innovation and efficiency. The lack of consumer knowledge makes it easy for companies to take advantage. HSA's are wonderful because that give some control back to the consumer. The HSA consumer must find the best price for visits and treatment. This leads to an educated consumer.
A public option is not an option. No one can compete with public dollars ever. There is no incentive to be efficient. An appointee will not have the option of failure. They will beat the competition at any cost for the sake of politics. The FED will make the rules that will benefit the public option. The most notable one is that the public option will be available to every state but private insurance companies will not be able sell across state lines.
Case in point. The United States Postal Service is the only company legally allowed to place mail into your mail box. Get rid of that rule and you will have UPS, DHL, and FEDEX all jumping in but because we have subsidized the USPS all these years, and still do, the other companies would be hard pressed to compete.
By the way, do you think that all the Insurance companies get together and hold secret meetings and say we will all charge this... NO. They are competing for our business. The FED doesn't compete...they Dictate... because that's what governments are for, to get in a Man's way.
You should really watch FF/S again.
p.s. there are a few corporations and a number of unions that are endorsing the public option. Why? isn't this just supposed to make it more competitive? Or will the few make out big?
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Quote:Agreed.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If 42,000 people dying every year in this country due to not having health insurance isn't a crisis, and if 40 MILLION of us being uninsured ISN'T a crisis, I don't see any reason why we'd ever even worry about 3000 dead in a ginned up "crisis" having to do with alleged terrorism.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Cops and firefighters are local issue, the military is a national issue.
Proper functions of Gov't. That's why. Thus endeth the civics lesson.
( And the 40,000+ folks dying because they lack health insurance is a totally fabricated #, as is the 40 MILLION number unable to get insurance, so there's no point in debating that point. )
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Quote:
Originally posted by xraftermanx:
Kwicko-
You must be very young or maybe just naive. Perhaps you would like to go work for the BlueSun.
Nope. Not young, not naive. And aren't YOU the one looking to go to work for "The Man", as a teacher? I'm sure they'll be glad to have another preprogrammed drone at their behest.
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Simplest terms. A Free Market with multiple companies and competition brings down prices and gives incentives for innovation and efficiency. The lack of consumer knowledge makes it easy for companies to take advantage. HSA's are wonderful because that give some control back to the consumer. The HSA consumer must find the best price for visits and treatment. This leads to an educated consumer.
What if a consumer doesn't WANT to get educated in this area, they just want to be able to see a doctor when they're sick, without having to go to medical school and become a CPA beforehand? Do you know how to rebuild your car's engine? Can you do so at 6am, so you can get to work in the morning? Or do you just want the damn thing to WORK when you turn the key?
As to your "simplest terms", I'd say the "free market" led us where we are now, and if you're so into competition, why are you so against letting a not-for-profit option into the marketplace to compete? Are you afraid they'd kick the living shit out of your beloved insurance companies? You say it couldn't possibly be done effectively or efficiently, yet you quake in mortal fear at the mere mention of the possibility. Sounds rather young and naive to me...
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A public option is not an option. No one can compete with public dollars ever. There is no incentive to be efficient. An appointee will not have the option of failure. They will beat the competition at any cost for the sake of politics. The FED will make the rules that will benefit the public option. The most notable one is that the public option will be available to every state but private insurance companies will not be able sell across state lines.
Case in point. The United States Postal Service is the only company legally allowed to place mail into your mail box. Get rid of that rule and you will have UPS, DHL, and FEDEX all jumping in but because we have subsidized the USPS all these years, and still do, the other companies would be hard pressed to compete.
You missed the point entirely. I deal with shipping and receiving on a daily basis. On some stuff, the US Post Office is THE best option, bar none. On other stuff, not so much. If you want to get a letter across town, you can pay the Post Office forty-four cents, or you can pay FedEx or UPS around $7.50. One of those companies is a government-run not-for-profit enterprise. Oddly, the other two still seem to be able to eke out a living... Do you think the almost twenty-fold difference in price is all down to the fact that UPS isn't allowed to put a letter in your MAILBOX? Really?
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By the way, do you think that all the Insurance companies get together and hold secret meetings and say we will all charge this... NO. They are competing for our business. The FED doesn't compete...they Dictate... because that's what governments are for, to get in a Man's way.
Do you think private companies DO NOT ever collude to set prices? Man, and you call ME naive...
By the way, you'll note that insurance profits are up over 428% over the last decade. Sounds like they're really slashing prices to keep the competition stiff, eh?
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You should really watch FF/S again.
Why? So I can see how the Alliance cruiser takes in even "outlaws" and gives them free healthcare?
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p.s. there are a few corporations and a number of unions that are endorsing the public option. Why? isn't this just supposed to make it more competitive? Or will the few make out big?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Cops and firefighters are local issue, the military is a national issue.
Proper functions of Gov't. That's why. Thus endeth the civics lesson.
"Proper functions of government." That's it? That's all you've got? You don't have an actual answer or reason, do you? WHY should I be obligated to pay for the healthcare of people who were too stupid to stay out of the way of incoming fire? Why them and nobody else?
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( And the 40,000+ folks dying because they lack health insurance is a totally fabricated #, as is the 40 MILLION number unable to get insurance, so there's no point in debating that point. )
Because RAPPY says so, eh? You can't argue the point, so "there's no point in debating" it.
By the way, your claim that "there is no crisis"? It's bullshit. You made it up, pulled it out of your ass, so there's no point in debating it, because you're clearly wrong, as usual. Debate over. You lose.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
By the way, your claim that "there is no crisis"? It's bullshit. You made it up, pulled it out of your ass, so there's no point in debating it, because you're clearly wrong, as usual. Debate over. You lose.
Awww....did I say something that's different and scary for you to hear? Good. Because I'll say it again. Despite what you're seeing in the news, despite what Congress is going through, this 'crisis' is purely manufactured for political reasons.
This isn't RWED. I'm not debating here, just offering my 2 cents.
Deal w/ it.
( and just to clarify.. we pay soldier's salaries, college education, and retirement, so it logically follows we'd pay for their medical as well. They defend THE NATION, so it's only proper the nation pays them for their service. City & local communities foot the bill for their LOCAL services. Due function of Govt )
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Nope. Not young, not naive. And aren't YOU the one looking to go to work for "The Man", as a teacher? I'm sure they'll be glad to have another preprogrammed drone at their behest.
Can't beat, join em' for now. 30% unemployment in Detroit and even Teachers are being laid off. In all likelihood I will be at a private college which is my goal anyway.
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What if a consumer doesn't WANT to get educated in this area, they just want to be able to see a doctor when they're sick, without having to go to medical school and become a CPA beforehand? Do you know how to rebuild your car's engine? Can you do so at 6am, so you can get to work in the morning? Or do you just want the damn thing to WORK when you turn the key?
Mechanics love to work over Dupes. Salesmen love to sell you stuff you don't need. Extended warranties, Rust proofing, etc... Why would an insurance salesman be any different. Now, when it comes to consuming healthcare an insurance company can pay what it wants to if it is large enough and can stiff-arm the doctor and the Dupe just hands over the card says Okay. HSA'a make the consumer responsible. If you like being a dupe that's cool but don't complain about profits.
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As to your "simplest terms", I'd say the "free market" led us where we are now, and if you're so into competition, why are you so against letting a not-for-profit option into the marketplace to compete? Are you afraid they'd kick the living shit out of your beloved insurance companies? You say it couldn't possibly be done effectively or efficiently, yet you quake in mortal fear at the mere mention of the possibility. Sounds rather young and naive to me...
The public government option is NOT a non-profit. Their profit is a political "I told you so". If it is allowed they will win. It's a foregone conclusion. They have no choice but to win or admit they were wrong. Politicians love admitting when their wrong:) I have seen what other countries provide and yes it is scary. Everything the government does is inefficient. Bureaucracy is what you will get. Wait and wait and wait and die.
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You missed the point entirely. I deal with shipping and receiving on a daily basis. On some stuff, the US Post Office is THE best option, bar none. On other stuff, not so much. If you want to get a letter across town, you can pay the Post Office forty-four cents, or you can pay FedEx or UPS around $7.50. One of those companies is a government-run not-for-profit enterprise. Oddly, the other two still seem to be able to eke out a living... Do you think the almost twenty-fold difference in price is all down to the fact that UPS isn't allowed to put a letter in your MAILBOX? Really?
I deal in shipping? Whoopty Doo. Did you miss the word subsidized in my original. I ran a Bulk Mail Business for three years. A non-profit can send a newsletter every month for as little as 6 cents/piece. Magazines are sent for as little as 14 cents/piece. If you want pricing go to a large PO and go to the back to the Bulk Mail Entry and pick up a free copy of the Quick Service Guide. The taxpayers pay the difference. We always have and the government sets it up so private companies can not compete at all.
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Do you think private companies DO NOT ever collude to set prices? Man, and you call ME naive...
It is illegal to price fix and if they did the company is lost. They do not need to price fix with the system they have. Lots of dupes in this country. Its like two gas stations across from each other at an intersection. Both watch each other intently and the price flutters. The system sucks the way it is. If we had food insurance we would all be eating steak everyday. Car insurance covers the catastrophic but we pay for the day to day maintenance like brakes, tires, oil changes, etc... The doctors and the patients need the control. Most doctors will order up extra tests so that they are covered against a lawsuit. We need Tort reform.
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Posted by xraftermanx: "You get what you pay for. Instead of a new car at $500/mo + gas + insurance + tax + tags, buy a used vehicle and get yourself covered. I guess you have to have priorities or big brother can pay for everything and you have to wait your turn and ask permission. Your choice."
My prioroties are just fine thank you very much. I do not have a new car + gas + insurance + bells + whistles etc etc etc. I can't afford such luxuries any more than I could afford health insurance, and if I had to choose, health coverage would of course come first. Don't try to paint me as some selfish layabout who expects to have everything handed to him so he can live in luxury.
Private health care in Britain may be expensive, but that doesn't matter because in the vast majority of cases it IS NOT NEEDED. Sometimes people have to wait for procedures, but treatments are prioritised so that people with urgent problems get treated promptly. Are you really so impatient that you would prefer to have your every petty ailment seen to immediately, even if that means the very poor are left to suffer and maybe die? Not everyone has an excess of money, to spend on cars and whatever else you listed. Many people can't even afford to make ends meet. If you can't understand or sympathise with such situations, well I quite frankly don't wish to hear your opinion.
"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."
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Sometimes people have to wait for procedures, but treatments are prioritised so that people with urgent problems get treated promptly. Are you really so impatient that you would prefer to have your every petty ailment seen to immediately, even if that means the very poor are left to suffer and maybe die?
I guess you don't quite know how it works in the USA. Emergency Rooms have a triage nurse that sorts though the patients and prioritizes (notice the z in prioritize) by severity regardless of the patients status to pay. Operations that are not emergent are bumped for those that are. We DO NOT leave the poor to die EVER. We do have some problems with "layabouts" crowding our ER's and treating them like free clinics because they get faster service there. Hospitals pass on the cost of "free" treatment to the other consumers. It's not perfect but the quality of care is not diminished. Quality of care does include timeliness of care.
My aunt should never have been made to wait 10 months in excruciating back pain for a surgery because Canada prioritizes and allocates its resources based upon the money it mismanages. Talk about having your priorities out of wack.
Speaking about cars in the UK. Petrol is 1.10/liter today. That is 1.78 US dollars. That is $6.78/gallon in US dollars. Why so much? A barrel of crude is the same price the world over. Oh yeah, gotta pay for that wonderful healthcare. And how about those luxury taxes on engines over 2.0liters and automatic transmissions. No wonder you can't afford a car. We pay $2.50/gallon right now and hate it. I drive a 4.0Liter and love it. There's no replacement for displacement.
In one way the US stands alone. We do not regulate the work week and time off like so many of our Allies. The UK got busted for opting out of the EU regulations and now all EU member states are complying. 48hr max work week including overtime. Hard to make a living if you have low pay and can not legally take a second job. Doctors in the EU used to average a 58hr work week and now it is 48. Limited resources will drive up the costs or you just prioritize and make people wait. Then you can add a mandated 4week paid vacation for everyone and 1.6 weeks worth of government holidays. Most Americans would love 5.6 weeks off per year. Yet we also like to work hard and get overtime.
We are born free with an aversion to authority telling us what to do. Ask a two-year old to do something and they say NO. We are conditioned to queue up and wait and nobody queue's like a Brit.
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To answer your main points in roughly the order in which they occured:
Prioritise is an acceptable variation. Continental differences and all that. Look it up.
I admit that our system isn't perfect. It is overly beaurocratic, as is everythign in Britain currently.
If nobody in the US is allowed to die EVER, then how do you explained the statistics that show many thousands die from lack of health care?
Prices here ARE unbelievable, you win that one. But that's not what stops me from owning a car. Some people are just a victim of circumstances, full stop. I have no disposable income at all. Cars would have to be free for me have one.
I really don't care about US policies for regulating the working week. It's rather beside the point, surely. Why did you even bring that up?
Finally, I shall refrain from making comments about you comparing yourself to a two year old.
"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."
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(notice the z in prioritize)
Rafterman, do you REALLY want to go down that road? He's British, so "prioritise" IS correct spelling. We Yanks are the ones who misspell it.
And do you want me to go through all YOUR posts and point out the spelling and grammatical errors "their"? Really? You'd end up quite embarrassed about your teaching ambitions, I'm afraid. ;)
More later; back to work for now. See, some of us DO have full-time jobs, and I've never been without one in the last 30 years, except for the six-month sabbatical I took in 1998, when I did some much needed travelling.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Oh, hell, I just can't resist just a couple more quick zingers...
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Take a little time and read the Constitution. Its only 17 pages long.
You mean the one that starts, and I quote:
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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Now really, what could more promote the general welfare than good health? And without your health, what good are any of the other provisions of the document?
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The progressives believe that it is a living document subject to interpretation and change. Sure you can change it with an amendment but not by just passing laws and adding power to the Federal Government whenever you want.
Yeah, the conservatives (like you, I take it) seem to think you can change it by simply ignoring the parts you don't agree with or like.
Can you show me in the Constitution where the USA Patriot Act fits in? Warrantless wiretaps? Torture? Illegal wars with no declaration of war from Congress? I'll defer to your expertise, since you're clearly so well-versed in the Constitution.
Oh, I notice also that you're in favor of tort reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. Is that based on passing federal laws to allow such, and taking away the states' rights to set such regulations? If so, why are you so gung-ho to take away states' rights and hand them to the federal government?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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If nobody in the US is allowed to die EVER, then how do you explained the statistics that show many thousands die from lack of health care?
When a person seeks medical care at a Hospital in the United States they are not denied for a lack of insurance. There are many things to die from, but a lack of medical insurance not one. Some may not seek medical care if they do not have insurance and some with insurance do not seek care because of an irrational fear of hospitals. Send a link with a peer-reviewed study and verifiable statistics instead of just saying statistics that show.
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I really don't care about US policies for regulating the working week. It's rather beside the point, surely. Why did you even bring that up?
Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.
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Finally, I shall refrain from making comments about you comparing yourself to a two year old.
I like this and will gladly say NO to authority figures who tell me to do something that I do not want to do and know is wrong. We said NO to crazy King George and look how that turned out.
What would the Captain think? Live free or die comes to mind.
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You mean the one that starts, and I quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Now really, what could more promote the general welfare than good health? And without your health, what good are any of the other provisions of the document?
This being the liberal interpretation of welfare. The provisions of the Constitution are pretty specific.
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Yeah, the conservatives (like you, I take it) seem to think you can change it by simply ignoring the parts you don't agree with or like.
Can you show me in the Constitution where the USA Patriot Act fits in? Warrantless wiretaps? Torture? Illegal wars with no declaration of war from Congress? I'll defer to your expertise, since you're clearly so well-versed in the Constitution.
I am a Libertarian. I don't agree with the Patriot Act, Warrantless Wiretaps, Torture, or a declaration of war without the approval of Congress.
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Oh, I notice also that you're in favor of tort reform and allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines. Is that based on passing federal laws to allow such, and taking away the states' rights to set such regulations? If so, why are you so gung-ho to take away states' rights and hand them to the federal government?
I wouldn't say gung-ho but yeah Tort reform is a good thing. Texas has done it and it is working very well for their economy. Non-economic damages are limited to $750,000. States are doing it on their own but the system as a whole is off. One of the few powers granted to Congress is the regulation of interstate commerce. There is an allowance of auto insurance but not health, so what gives. Those blocking these two things are getting rich and it is just hurting the everyday man. Opening up interstate commerce is not taking away states rights.
What is taking away states rights is mandating that all citizens must purchase health insurance. In the house bill, if you do not purchase health insurance you will be fined. If you do not pay the fine you will be imprisoned.
So forget the Republicans who spend like crazy and forget the Democrats who spend like crazy cause we can not afford our liabilities now. We are toast. The dollar is weakening and inflation is here. Wait til crude gets traded in everything but US dollars. Inflation will go through the roof.
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Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.
Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?
By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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So forget the Republicans who spend like crazy and forget the Democrats who spend like crazy cause we can not afford our liabilities now. We are toast. The dollar is weakening and inflation is here. Wait til crude gets traded in everything but US dollars. Inflation will go through the roof.
Sounds like we should do away with ALL subsidies. That would include subsidies to private corporations in any form (tax abatements, sales tax rebates, etc.), subsidies to farms to not grown crops, subsidies to automakers, subsidies to parents for having children, etc.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?
Did I use or quote statistics in anything. If I did I will provide. I thought I was just writing in general terms that all could grasp. Yet, if you use the terms of they said, or statistics say just back them up.
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By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.
Number One according to? The World Health Organization? What are their stats? Well check out this link by the CATO institute. Yes they are conservative but their information is good.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf
My favorite stat from the W.H.O. is that if you have any increase in health services your score goes up. However it does not have to increase for everyone in your country. If the health services increase for the wealthy only and the poor stay the same your country's score goes up.
I would never go to France for a surgery. We have the best doctors and you get what you pay for.
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I wouldn't say gung-ho but yeah Tort reform is a good thing. Texas has done it and it is working very well for their economy. Non-economic damages are limited to $750,000. States are doing it on their own but the system as a whole is off. One of the few powers granted to Congress is the regulation of interstate commerce. There is an allowance of auto insurance but not health, so what gives. Those blocking these two things are getting rich and it is just hurting the everyday man. Opening up interstate commerce is not taking away states rights.
Actually, you're wrong - Texas HAS done it, and has had very mixed reviews. Non-economic damages are capped at $250,000, by the way, not $750,000. 34 states have enacted tort reform, but apparently neo-LIbertarians don't believe the states know what they're doing, because they - along with the Republicans who spawned them - seem to think that we need a massive new federal program aimed at tort reform at the federal level, and at putting all class-action lawsuits into the federal system.
Which is all a very nice subsidy for big business. We'll cap their payouts, but malpractice incidents won't become less common, and the malpractice insurance premiums won't come down anywhere near as much as the payouts are lessened for the carriers. It's a win-win for the insurance industry, which you seem to be very happy for. Your supposed "libertarian" leanings seem to me to be nothing more than neo-Bushisms under their latest name: tea-bagging. It's the same old corporatism, but today you call it "libertarianism" where yesterday you called it "neo-conservatism".
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Sounds like we should do away with ALL subsidies. That would include subsidies to private corporations in any form (tax abatements, sales tax rebates, etc.), subsidies to farms to not grown crops, subsidies to automakers, subsidies to parents for having children, etc.
Are we actually in agreement or is this sarcasm.
The biggest sticking point with member nations of the World Trade Organization in the past 10 years or so has been food subsidies and sending Food to Africa as relief. The EU is the worst culprit followed closely by the United States. These governing bodies buy food at market prices and send it to drought stricken regions in Africa. This, in turn, bankrupts the struggling local farmers. They could possibly make it if they did not have to compete with the Free food provided by the USA and the EU.
The USA and the EU argue that we can not open up trade because we need to be self sufficient. It just may be a national security issue but the Food Aid should stop.
The worst food subsidy is the sugar subsidy put in place by Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis. It was supposed to be repealed 6 years ago, but it didn't happen. We turned to High Fructose Corn Syrup for a cheap sweetener in everything. If you have every tasted a coke made with real sugar then you know what you are missing. It is so, so much better.
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Originally posted by xraftermanx:Quote:
Since you were asking the OP for links to peer-reviewed studies and cites for some of his claims, might I ask you for the same?
Did I use or quote statistics in anything. If I did I will provide. I thought I was just writing in general terms that all could grasp. Yet, if you use the terms of they said, or statistics say just back them up.
So you feel comfortable making blanket claims like this without any sourcing or backup?
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Why? Because it has everything to do with the economics of Health Care. The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics. 99% of economist's in the free world agree that the 20th-century British economist John Maynard Keynes was wrong.
You've not shown any evidence to back up your claims that the EU regulates work weeks (the US Department of Labor does the same thing here, by the way), to show a "scarcity" of doctors, to show that "99% of economist's [sic] in the world agree" on ANYTHING, or any of your other ludicrous claims. Now you try to lay it all off as "you're just saying", like you didn't really mean any of it. So you admit you were making all this up?
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By the way, the "socialized" French healthcare system is ranked Number One in the world. Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your preconceived notions.
Number One according to? The World Health Organization? What are their stats? Well check out this link by the CATO institute. Yes they are conservative but their information is good.
"Good" according to? According to them, because they made it up? According to you, because it agrees with your preconceived notions? Sorry, but if you get to dismiss my sources, don't expect me to blindly trust yours just because YOU say they're good. ;)
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My favorite stat from the W.H.O. is that if you have any increase in health services your score goes up. However it does not have to increase for everyone in your country. If the health services increase for the wealthy only and the poor stay the same your country's score goes up.
I would never go to France for a surgery. We have the best doctors and you get what you pay for.
"Best" according to? And if you get what you pay for, why aren't we the healthiest nation on Earth? After all, we pay FAR more for healthcare than any other nation on the planet (and if we're not using sources or cites, I can comfortably say that we pay twelve thousand times more than the rest of the world combined! ;0 ), and we don't get better outcomes than they do.
I know you really believe all this "We're number one!" bullshit, but you seriously need to turn off the GlenBeck and the RushBaugh and open your eyes and ears a bit.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Actually, you're wrong - Texas HAS done it, and has had very mixed reviews. Non-economic damages are capped at $250,000, by the way, not $750,000. 34 states have enacted tort reform, but apparently neo-LIbertarians don't believe the states know what they're doing, because they - along with the Republicans who spawned them - seem to think that we need a massive new federal program aimed at tort reform at the federal level, and at putting all class-action lawsuits into the federal system.
Yeah it is 250, my bad, I had read it a while ago. 34 is not quite 50 now is it. Would it take a huge program or to just institute a law capping it at 250 and insuring Judges follow the law.
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Which is all a very nice subsidy for big business. We'll cap their payouts, but malpractice incidents won't become less common, and the malpractice insurance premiums won't come down anywhere near as much as the payouts are lessened for the carriers. It's a win-win for the insurance industry, which you seem to be very happy for. Your supposed "libertarian" leanings seem to me to be nothing more than neo-Bushisms under their latest name: tea-bagging. It's the same old corporatism, but today you call it "libertarianism" where yesterday you called it "neo-conservatism".
Can you call this a subsidy? These aren't taxes they are damage awards. Malpractice suits are less common in Texas. Dallas county went from 1,108 in 2003 to 142 in 2004 after it was instituted. 184 last year and thousands of doctors are headed for Texas to practice medicine.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/05/19/doctors-flock-to-texas-after-to
rt-reform/?mod=WSJBlog
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What's this, have we abandoned the RWED to PirateNews and moved all rational discourse here? It's a good idea.
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The EU regulates the work week and as such their is no incentive to working hard. A doctor will put in his/her 48 hours and go home because he/she will not get paid and it is illegal. So doctors become scarce. They get paid less because they see less patients. Those who would enter the profession do not choose to because they can not make enough money to even pay back their student loans. So what is left is the rationing of Health Care. And you get to stand in line. You pay more in you taxes for less services than you would in a private system. This is rudimentary economics.
From Wikipedia:
"More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world"
"Currently the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][12] The USA's life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Hmm, the facts are at odds with your neat economic theory.
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Despite what you're seeing in the news, despite what Congress is going through, this 'crisis' is purely manufactured for political reasons.
You don't see a need for reform? Not scared at all by these graphs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Health_care_cost_rise.PNG
Heads should roll
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Originally posted by Iremisst:
My mother has a job with a flexible schedule that allows her to volunteer with the fuzzy-wuzzies but has no insurance... anyway three days ago she fell on her truck and completely dislocated her shoulder...She still in massive pain and also can't afford therapy, or the hospital visit... My Grandmother wanted to take her to a CHIROPRACTER because she thought it'd be CHEAPER!!
Chiro is very cheap ($30 a visit), but don't volunteer for the "physical therapy". That's where they make 80% of their profit. Chiro is also better than any MD for joint problems, unless the tendons and ligaments have completely torn from the bone. Osteopath is best of both worlds, but more expensive than chiro.
Chiros won't tell you to drink vinegar/honey, which tightens the ligaments, eliminates muscle pain and makes arthritis go away. That would eliminate their repeat business.
Not having insurance is a good thing, since MDs murder 2-million US citizens every year.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm
None of the "reform" will attempt to reduce death by medmal, and Obama will ban all vitamins, since the goal of "reform" is to massively raise the death rate, and massively raise taxes to bail out the insurance companies who wrote the legislation.
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A good idea while it lasted.
Heads should roll
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Originally posted by kpo:
"More money per person is spent on health care in the United States than in any other nation in the world"
"Currently the U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate than most of the world's industrialized nations.[nb 1][12] The USA's life expectancy lags 42nd in the world, after most rich nations, lagging last of the G5 (Japan, France, Germany, UK, USA) and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Abortion = infant mortality, but is NOT included in "statistics".
As a former US soldier, I've been waiting 12 years for a medical appointment with the Veterans Administration clinic. The only VA doctor in Tennessee who tests for radiation poisoning works 8 hours away, part-time, and he's from Pakistan, a nation USA is currently at war with. My wife got paid $80/month VA disability pension for medical malpractice, but after 6 months VA stole it all back, saying only 5% of disabled soldiers get paid both retirement and disability pensions (the only job in USA that does that).
The average disabled US soldier is forced to live on $80/month. VA has 4,000 lawyers whose job is to deny claims, while vets are not allowed to hire lawyers. VA hospitals have maggots eating the brains of patients.
US war vets must repay their enlistment bonus when their legs get blown off, and are billed for damaged "bullet-proof" vests with bullet holes.Soldiers who complain about bad healthcare are either murdered in hospital, or their careers are destroyed, according to family members who complained to commanding officers.
THAT'S what you get when Uncle Scam gives you "free" healthcare (paid for by borrowed money from Commie China, that genocided 60-million of its citizens and has a 1-child-or-we-kill-your-baby-after-its-born law).
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Originally posted by xraftermanx:
What is taking away states rights is mandating that all citizens must purchase health insurance. In the house bill, if you do not purchase health insurance you will be fined. If you do not pay the fine you will be imprisoned.
5 years in prison and $250,000 fine if you refuse to buy a $15,000 insurance policy to bail out a private insurance corporation, that pays its executives $100,000 PER WEEK personal salary PER PERSON, up to a personal salary of $35-BILLION PER YEAR PER PERSON TAX-FREE, as Warren Buffet paid himself as head of GEICO Govt Employees Insurance Corp.
The kosher banksters got their $25-Trillion Bailout. Now its the insurance robber barons turn at the trough.
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Yeah it is 250, my bad, I had read it a while ago. 34 is not quite 50 now is it. Would it take a huge program or to just institute a law capping it at 250 and insuring Judges follow the law.
Just so we get this all straight - you're a "libertarian", calling for MORE federal laws, right?
And "insuring judges follow the law" is the answer, in your book? You have a funny, funny idea of what "libertarian" means, guy. You seem to be saying that mandatory minimums are A-OK in your book; after all, why should judges have any semblance of personal responsibility in how they mete out justice or sentencing, eh? Just write it all into a federally-mandated sentencing handbook, and then you don't even NEED the judges in the first place!
And how about "insuring doctors follow their charts" in the first place? Seems if they weren't fucking up so often, there wouldn't be so many lawsuits.
And yes, it IS a subsidy - it's money that your beloved little tort reform GIVES the insurance industry, in the form of money for mistakes that they NEVER pay out. They still take the premiums, of course - so this is just extra profit for them. It's a subsidy, bought and paid for by your government.
By the way, will your tort reform extend to everybody, in your ideal world? For instance, if I murder somebody and claim it was an "accident", can I just pay $250,000 and stay out of prison? :)
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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What's this, have we abandoned the RWED to PirateNews and moved all rational discourse here? It's a good idea.
Well, it wasn't supposed to be that way, but that's where this thread got started, so that's where it stayed.
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"Best" according to? And if you get what you pay for, why aren't we the healthiest nation on Earth? After all, we pay FAR more for healthcare than any other nation on the planet (and if we're not using sources or cites, I can comfortably say that we pay twelve thousand times more than the rest of the world combined! ;0 ), and we don't get better outcomes than they do.
I know you really believe all this "We're number one!" bullshit, but you seriously need to turn off the GlenBeck and the RushBaugh and open your eyes and ears a bit.
You said France was number one and I asked according to? You never answered. I answered it for you. You probably heard it from Michael Moore and 12,000 times more. Since you didn't read the CATO article lets show you the best in 5 year cancer survival rates.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate
-lowest-in-Europe.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1234276/Britain-sick-man-Europ
e-Heart-cancer-survival-rates-worst-developed-world.html?ITO=1490&referrer=yahoo
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/health/story.html?id=2f6e7d6b-5c7a
-46b5-ace6-3add4ec6efd5
No matter where you go the US has the highest 5 year cancer survival rate. If you go by WHO stats then Costa Rica ranks better than the USA. Still I will stay here were quality no matter the price is king. I would rather have the 91.9% chance of surviving 5 years than Europe's 57.7%.
I am done writing here... I would prefer to engage those interested in FF/S only topics. I came here and found those who dislike America. Its alright, you can, its a free country for now anyway.
You found your way to FFF because you thought you were a fan but think long and hard about what the crew of Serenity stand for and why they do what they do.
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I am done writing here... I would prefer to engage those interested in FF/S only topics. I came here and found those who dislike America. Its alright, you can, its a free country for now anyway.
Yes, wanting to make America better for ALL Americans shows our true dislike of our nation.
You know that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, right? After all of the idiocy you've posted, and been called on and proven wrong every single time, now you want to fall back on the old tried-and-true "you just hate America!" line. Pretty pathetic, but I couldn't call it unexpected.
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Originally posted by xraftermanx:
You said France was number one and I asked according to? You never answered. I answered it for you.
You answered for me in the same breath that you asked the freaking question! You had no interest in hearing my answer, or you'd have given me a chance to answer.
Also, I note for the record that all of your sources are conservative publications. It comes as no surprise they'd reflect your Republican values and skew their results to meet your expectations.
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No matter where you go the US has the highest 5 year cancer survival rate. If you go by WHO stats then Costa Rica ranks better than the USA. Still I will stay here were quality no matter the price is king. I would rather have the 91.9% chance of surviving 5 years than Europe's 57.7%.
According to factcheck.org, that's wrong info, but you should be used to that. You're so very, very good at giving out faulty information, and then claiming that you weren't "using quotes or statistics" so you shouldn't be held accountable for the figures you spew.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/a-false-appeal-to-womens-fears/
WebMD backs this up with some numbers of its own, which also refute your claims.
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/news/20080716/cancer-survival-rates-vary-b
y-country
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Where you live plays a role in cancer survival, according to a new study that shows the U.S., Japan, and France recorded the highest survival rates among 31 nations for four types of cancer. Algeria had the lowest survival rates for all four cancers.
"This is the first direct comparison of so many countries as far as I am aware," says Michel Coleman, MD, a professor of epidemiology and vital statistics at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and the study's lead author.
While Coleman and other epidemiologists have long known that cancer survival rates vary country by country, and even within a country, the study lends hard numbers to the fact. Still, there were surprises. "I think the surprises were that the range in global survival is really quite wide," Coleman tells WebMD.
"Survival in the USA is high on a global scale but varies quite widely among individual states as well as between blacks and whites within the USA," he tells WebMD.
Cancer Survival by Country
Coleman and colleagues drew on data from nearly 2 million cancer patients, ages 15 to 99, whose medical information was entered into 101 population-based cancer registries in 31 countries. The patients had been diagnosed with one of four cancers: breast, colon, rectum, or prostate cancers during the years 1990-1994. They were followed up to 1999, with the researchers comparing five-year survival rates.
The highest survival rates were found in the U.S. for breast and prostate cancer, in Japan for colon and rectal cancers in men, and in France for colon and rectal cancers in women, Coleman's team reports.
In Canada and Australia, survival was also high for most cancers.
The lowest cancer survival rates for all four cancers were found in Algeria.
But YOU said, and I quote:
Quote:
No matter where you go the US has the highest 5 year cancer survival rate. If you go by WHO stats then Costa Rica ranks better than the USA. Still I will stay here were quality no matter the price is king. I would rather have the 91.9% chance of surviving 5 years than Europe's 57.7%.
"No matter where you go, the US has the highest 5-year cancer survival rate."
Well, as long as you're only talking about two certain types of cancer, that is.
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I am done writing here...
Yes, run away. It's what Republicans do best these days.
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You found your way to FFF because you thought you were a fan but think long and hard about what the crew of Serenity stand for and why they do what they do.
Do you often confuse a television show for reality? Did you think Star Wars was real, too?
Mike
Work is the curse
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Hey unload away Iremisst...the system sucks worse in your country than it does in mine. It does always come down to the money though. If you are well off and can afford health insurance you get taken care of. the rest of us have to wait and wait until you just give up. My situation is not as bad as others, but it does get exhausting sometimes. So I myself to piss and moan about it. It's theraputic.
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I Have a reaAALLLLY bad idea , Boris...
Next time you get a few days clear in your schedule maybe you should get jacked on pain pills and try to dislocate it so they have to fix it then...
Bad idea, and yes, after what happened to mom I completely know what I'm sayin' is a bitch, but sometimes playin' by other people's rules means ya hafta play hardball...
Either way, please let me know if it ever gets fixed, 'till then I'll be wishing better things for ya hon, & stay strong!
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Does anybody here watch WNIN or PBS? They had a documentary on last month about our (and parts of others) healthcare systems. Don't remember much, 'cept Japan charges the equivilent of $10 for a night's stay in a hospital (which is great , but half of the hosp. are going broke!)
But the thing that seemed to be working better is the way a doctor's visit is handled... First the doctor stays in the same office and you come to him which is not really a problem because your whole visit is less than five minutes- you state your problem he writes a prescription for you to try and on your way you go. Also, simple problems are VERY cheap to fix. Five dollars for a laceration suture, wart removal ect. And pretty much every procedure has a Gov. regulated set price... No thousand dollar ice packs or anything... Only problem with that is fewer peeps want to BE docs, because they can't get rich at it... so ... I dunno. If we can be vampiristic and suck the good procedures out of other countries and modify them slightly so we leave off the negatives, we COULD get somewhere, maybe...
By the way, I was charged $38 for ONE DOSE of regular children's Motrin one time and I still find that shocking, I checked -I could buy 7 bottles of it for that!
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eek! Iremisst that is radical!!! just thinking about the pain of doing that to myself is making me wince so hard my jaw and temple hurt. Ironically it looks like I may have to have it professionally dislocated and then repositioned to fix it anyway...but it will happen under sedation...with the pain factor managed.
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Oh, thank god...Am very happy to hear it. You probably wouldn't believe the things I've done to myself to not go to a doc, especially when we were out of jobs. Don't know if it's made me stronger or a little bit crazier 
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Originally posted by AURaptor:
( and just to clarify.. we pay soldier's salaries, college education, and retirement, so it logically follows we'd pay for their medical as well. They defend THE NATION, so it's only proper the nation pays them for their service. City & local communities foot the bill for their LOCAL services. Due function of Govt )
Sorry, Rappy, but you got lost in the flood a bit, what with all the hullaballou Rafterman was making, before he decided to ponce off.
So where were we?
Oh yeah. WHY do you say this is all due function of government? WHY do we give these soldiers these benefits? HOW did they come to be?
Aren't they just more socialist programs enacted by that famous socialist, FDR? Are you defending socialism?
You DID know that prior to 1944, most of these things WEREN'T paid for, right?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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You're changing the subject again.
First, it was to treat US military as being on par w/ local fire, police and educmicators, or what ever. NOW it's switched to how business was done pre/ post WW2.
The point being, those who defend the nation should be paid BY the nation, as those who work for state/ local bodies should be paid by them.
The T.Rex they call JANE!
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Actually, the point is, we as a nation didn't use to do these things for our soldiers and veterans; we do now. Things change. They CAN change, and we can change them. We also used to not pay for police and fire protection; we had volunteers for that. Things change.
We pay soldiers for their "service" to the nation. We provide them with insurance for the same reason. Likewise, we can decide as a nation that we are going to provide insurance for all citizens, as part of the payment we make for their service to the nation.
The things you say are done as "functions of the government" weren't always functions of the government. We made them that way, and most of them quite recently, historically speaking.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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This thread has gone on so long, and I"'m a latecomer to it, so I've probably missed a lot.
I'm covered thru my husband's insurance, and it's damned good. Only once been refused coverage; Jim went for a recheck of his various stuff (emphysema, arteriosclerosis, etc.) and they billed it as a "regular checkup)...we're still fighting it, but will probably have to pay the $400 in the end, dammit.
But I've been through a LOT of stuff, several surgeries, in the past few years, and everything's been covered. Even physical therapy, for more than the officially covered amount. Just finished another bout of PT for achilles tendonitis, and immediately started up again (like the same week) for degenerative disc disease.
Our dental coverage sucks, however. I've got several chipped teeth and am waiting for the new year to do them. When I finally went last time, I, too, had myriad problems which need fixing, but it's so expensive, I'm doing it a bit at a time.
Last time I saw a dentist, I had to have a bridge. Paid my estimated share, but it turned out to be much higher than estimated. Took years to pay off, and I never finished, so have two filed-down teeth in preparation of a bridge and a huge gap between them. Gotten used to it; dunno if I can ever afford to have it finished.
In my opinion we desperately need reform in America. I'm lucky because my husband is covered through the union (tho' he's not in the union, there are only a couple of admin people so they get the same coverage). I do believe it's Blue Cross, via an employee trust fund...but I agree, BLue Cross and Blue Shield are the devil incarnate and MUST be curtailed in their rampant pursuit of more and more profits.
Medicare picks up what insurance doesn't for me, so I rarely pay much for anything. Given I've got Medicare, and we'll get a supplement once Jim ceases working, I have no personal interest in the healthcare reform issue...but I still feel VERY strongly for all those without decent healthcare and those having to fight for ANY here in the US.
I just learned the proposed bill SOLIDIFIES the big ins. co.'s monopoly status--that and the individual mandate, with no public option, makes it an ins. co. gimee, nothing more. We need something that will actually CURTAIL their huge profits and unsavory actions. I'm allowed to wish...
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Talk about unsuspecting billing practices... My daughter had to have her tonsils and adnoids removed over five months!! ago, they were so swollen she almost couln't breathe. At the time of the surgery I was told that our co-pay would be $325 (and for the first time in our marriage we finally have some really good insurance) and I thought Yay! we are going to survive this one, and today I get another bill for $250 and I called and asked and that said "Oh, you just paid the doctor's bill you didn't pay the facility bill." And she had this attitude that boy, was I stupid for not having a medical billing degree... "And I said oh, well when do I get the bill from the janitor and each CRAPPY nurse involved, oh and how about the contractor who built the place and the water company...."
And this is FIVE MONTHS LATER mind you...
Not to mention they did the surgery in 45 minutes and tried to kick us out of there a half an hour later, and she wasn't even stable. I sent my husband out on an errand so I COULDN'T leave, then we get her home and she's throwing up and I'm panicking because didn't she just have surgery on her throat? Is this gonna get infected? Is this normal? And for this I get the honor of paying $600 dollars- WITH insurance!!!?
Bastards and #ssh*oles, every one of them!
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I get low-income health care through my state-it's a program unique to oregon alone. It covers most things for free, but here's the kicker: I was low-income because I was a student. I've just graduated and now-PRESUMABLY-I'll be getting a good job. (We'll see). Anyway, if I start making even a little bit more, I lose the insurance, but of course won't be making enough for conventional coverage. I'll be in health coverage limbo. How low can you go?
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I get low-income health care through my state-it's a program unique to oregon alone. It covers most things for free, but here's the kicker: I was low-income because I was a student. I've just graduated and now-PRESUMABLY-I'll be getting a good job. (We'll see). Anyway, if I start making even a little bit more, I lose the insurance, but of course won't be making enough for conventional coverage. I'll be in health coverage limbo. How low can you go?
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Wow.I remember getting my tonsils out when I was four. I stayed there overnight and they gave me ice cream. Now they probably charge extra for the ice cream. Probably call it "temperature sensitive nutritional healing aid," or some such go-sa.
I get low-income health care through my state-it's a program unique to oregon alone. It covers most things for free, but here's the kicker: I was low-income because I was a student. I've just graduated and now-PRESUMABLY-I'll be getting a good job. (We'll see). Anyway, if I start making even a little bit more, I lose the insurance, but of course won't be making enough for conventional coverage. I'll be in health coverage limbo. How low can you go?
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Wow.I remember getting my tonsils out when I was four. I stayed there overnight and they gave me ice cream. Now they probably charge extra for the ice cream. Probably call it "temperature sensitive nutritional healing aid," or some such go-sa.
I get low-income health care through my state-it's a program unique to oregon alone. It covers most things for free, but here's the kicker: I was low-income because I was a student. I've just graduated and now I'll be getting a good job. (We'll see). Anyway, if I start making even a little bit more, I lose the insurance, but of course won't be making enough for conventional coverage. I'll be in health coverage limbo. How low can you go?
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sorry. attack of the dinosaur computers
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