Did the 'Companion' thing ever bug you in Firefly?

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, February 7, 2026 14:42
VIEWED: 45718
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CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 5:47 AM (P)

Look, I feel that prostitution should be legal & regulated, but is the idea that it's a profession to be elevated to some "noble" & semi-spiritual service make any here cringe just a little bit?

Or is this the wrong crowd?

Anyway, I'll be in my bunk.

The laughing Chrisisall

HAKEN

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:06 AM (P)

If I was single and RICH. I'll probably attempt to go through their entire catalog.

This will probably open an entire can of worms, but the current dating scene isn't much different, at least that's what I'm told by friends who are still in the game (funny how it's called that, but it's actually quite true).

I'm told that in certain circles, if the male buys dinner, do the whole wine and dine ting, it's expected that the female allow him to "close the deal," so to speak.

Okay, are we talking about this because it's Valentines Day? I wonder how many deals are being closed tonight...hmmm.

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:07 AM (P)

No, I thought it was an interesting idea that wasn't handled as well as it could have been (or had the opportunity to anyway). I would have loved it if we could have seen Inara and the Companions "in action", so to speak, in the Core.

The temple priestess idea is hardly a new one, and I got the impression that was largely the sort of role a Companion played. I wish we could have seen it more, but alas, Inara was out trying to bring culture and enlightenment to the border and outer planets, which in comparison to the Core must have been like female politicians trying to get shiat done in places like Yemen.

Or based on the comment above mine, in some places like here as well. :/

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:21 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:
If I was single and RICH. I'll probably attempt to go through their entire catalog.

At 16, I would have spent every dime on that venue, I conjure.

Quote:

This will probably open an entire can of worms, but the current dating scene isn't much different, at least that's what I'm told by friends who are still in the game (funny how it's called that, but it's actually quite true).

I hated the *game* in my 20's, and I'd hate it more now.
I'm lucky to have found a beautiful & sassy mate back when love was still the most important thing.
(70's carryover to the 80's)
Welcome to "Demolition Man" & "Cherry 2000" era dating these days.

Quote:

I'm told that in certain circles, if the male buys dinner, do the whole wine and dine thing, it's expected that the female allow him to "close the deal," so to speak.

That's a form of, well, I won't say it, but, where's the equality here?

The demanding male Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
No, I thought it was an interesting idea that wasn't handled as well as it could have been

*heh heh, you said "handled"*

The immature Chrisisall

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:25 AM (P)

Oh you better believe it, baby

PACHELBEL

Monday, February 15, 2010 6:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:
If I was single and RICH. I'll probably attempt to go through their entire catalog.
At 16, I would have spent every dime on that venue, I conjure.
Quote:

This will probably open an entire can of worms, but the current dating scene isn't much different, at least that's what I'm told by friends who are still in the game (funny how it's called that, but it's actually quite true).
I hated the *game* in my 20's, and I'd hate it more now.
I'm lucky to have found a beautiful & sassy mate back when love was still the most important thing.
(70's carryover to the 80's)
Welcome to "Demolition Man" & "Cherry 2000" era dating these days.
Quote:

I'm told that in certain circles, if the male buys dinner, do the whole wine and dine thing, it's expected that the female allow him to "close the deal," so to speak.

That's a form of, well, I won't say it, but, where's the equality here?

The demanding male Chrisisall

Hey, if a woman wined and dined me, I'd let her close the deal!

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 7:03 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by pachelbel:

Hey, if a woman wined and dined me, I'd let her close the deal!

If you're a female Pach, I'll be in my bunk, otherwise *whatever.*

The laughing Chrisisall

PACHELBEL

Monday, February 15, 2010 7:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by pachelbel:

Hey, if a woman wined and dined me, I'd let her close the deal!
If you're a female Pach, I'll be in my bunk, otherwise *whatever.*

The laughing Chrisisall

Ha! Chris, I'm male.

AGENTROUKA

Monday, February 15, 2010 8:27 AM (P)

Didn't bug me. In fact, it's one of the main things that made the show stand out for me.

Loved the idea, loved how Joss implemented it, hate how most people seem to see it as a terrible thing. I don't get why they do, no one has ever been able to give me a reason why that hasn't been patronizing to female sexuality, the male psyche or the concept of "hypocrisy". Or had an actual basis in canon and wasn't pure speculation.

There's different levels of esteem for pretty much any service. You can get a high quality restaurant, you can get a fast food joint. You can get a million different approaches to medicine (homeopathy, accupuncture, your more modern western medicine, your traditional wholistic therapeutic approaches, the four humors theories...), you can get a ton of different approaches to psychotherapy, some of which are accepted and recognized, some of which are derrided and scorned. Make prostitution legal and it follows that you'll have a spectrum of esteem for different levels of service.

People reveeeeere film actors, musicians, authors, royals, politicians, historical figures...

I think high-class prostitution with a spiritual, therapeutic bend and arm-candy service is no worse, possible much better than much of the things people consider to be of "elevated status".

I really like how the show had Inara stick by her profession, even though others on the show put it down, including some of the very limited sample group of clients we saw. I really wish we had gotten to see much more of the culture of Companions.

If anything, it offered an interesting alternative female lifestyle (albeit an exclusive one) to romantic love, without also losing sexuality, sensuality, confidence and influence. I actually think that this is one of the things that bothers many viewers the most: willingly foregoing romance as the default female life goal.

HAKEN

Monday, February 15, 2010 8:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I hated the *game* in my 20's, and I'd hate it more now.

I'm lucky to have found a beautiful & sassy mate back when love was still the most important thing.

Yeah, same here. My wife and I were just talking about it earlier this evening how we were both fortunate and avoided the whole adult dating circuit.

Speed-dating, dating-in-the-dark, and all the other newfangled ways that people are using to try and find their true love just makes us feel tired and probably not survive the ordeal.

BIGRICHARD

Monday, February 15, 2010 12:48 PM (P)

I'm 20, single, and am not looking forward to trying to find 'that special someone'.

I think I was born in the wrong generation...

PIZMOBEACH

Monday, February 15, 2010 1:12 PM (P)

I liked how even after Mal gave Inara so much flack she came in to save him in The Train Job. Makes me wonder who is against legalizing prostitution, men or women? Too much power for women? And if it was legal and women ran it would it be more like in the show?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, February 15, 2010 2:06 PM (P)

As a single woman of a certain age (I'll be 50 on Thursday and far from being wealthy enough to be a "cougar" and I admit I'm lonely at times)I've made piece with myself and realized being alone has it's advantages.
Yes, I'll entertain the idea of a relationship if it presents itself but I'm not doing all the wacky dating stunts just to get a man.

As far as Inara is concerned, I like the idea of prostitution being out in the open and regulated but Inara's life seems to be rather lonely and without close personal ties.

She may have adulation, the men (and occasional woman) of her choice and all the sex she wants but eventually being on a pedastal is isolating.
And as the series progressed I think she was realizing it more and more.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

ECGORDON

Monday, February 15, 2010 2:11 PM (P)

There is a long and honorable tradition in many cultures of institutions like the Companion Guild, as well as other treatments of it in science fiction. For example, the character Tamara in Robert Heinlein's "Time Enough For Love" was a revered hetaera.

From dictionary.com - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hetaera

Quote:
Word Origin & History

hetaera
1820, "mistress," from Mod.L., from Gk. hetaira "female companion," in Athens opposed to "lawful wife," and thus embracing everything from "concubine" to "courtesan;" fem. of hetairos "comrade, companion,"

BTW, if you haven't already read that Heinlein novel, I'd recommend you read "Methuselahs Children" first.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

MAL4PREZ

Monday, February 15, 2010 2:49 PM (P)

Sorry Chris, but...

Doesn't it seem that those who are uncomfortable with this idea of "Companions" are those who would be tempted to use the service? Not only in this thread, but in real life?

I'm thinking that the root of the discomfort is a man's (well... "client's" I should say) fear of his/her own sex drive. The client's own discomfort and shame gets externalized, put on the Companion.

Inara's in a position that she can refuse to accept that judgment: the fact that you'd hire her doesn't make her dirty. That's something you have to work out between you and you. And that's what I loved about what Joss did. He challenged the audience to accept Inara and her job, and by extension to accept our own sexual urges. You can spend your college savings on her when you're 18 and not feel guilty about it the rest of your life. Hell, in Joss's shame-free world you could even tell your future wife about it and she'd benefit from the fancy tricks you learned. Where's the bad in that?

As for the sex-for-dinner thing, I can't believe that actually happens often, (outside Sex and the City episodes) nor do I think it's prostitution when it does. What, you think the woman wouldn't be able to afford dinner otherwise? Or that a woman shouldn't act on an urge (yes, woman have those) simply because it's a common ritual for the man to buy dinner?

In my dating days I'd go 50-50 when possible. But some men were offended by that. Like opening doors - it seemed to make them feel good about themselves to treat me. Sometimes it was sweet, sometimes it was less so - when guys seemed to think I owed them in return. It was never stated, but sometimes the expectation was clearly there. That's just rude! To insist and buying dinner and then insist on payback... sheesh!

But not all women are empowered enough to say no in this situation. They're trained to think they have to do that payback, as men are trained to think the have to pay ahead. So... it's not at all prostitution, is what I'm saying. It's our society's fucked up gender/sex roles.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 3:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Sorry Chris, but...

Doesn't it seem that those who are uncomfortable with this idea of "Companions" are those who would be tempted to use the service? Not only in this thread, but in real life?

It comes from the idea that I wouldn't want my daughter to be one, yet I would have been tempted to use the service from someone else's daughter in my 20's. The inherent hypocracy there is the source of the discomfort, I conjure.

And yeah, this culture is whack when it comes to sex roles.

The laughing Chrisisall

ZEEK

Monday, February 15, 2010 5:23 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It comes from the idea that I wouldn't want my daughter to be one, yet I would have been tempted to use the service from someone else's daughter in my 20's. The inherent hypocracy there is the source of the discomfort, I conjure.

And yeah, this culture is whack when it comes to sex roles.

I totally agree with this. Which I think you can take a step further and point it right back at men. What wouldn't we want our daughter or sister in such a profession? To me it's because we know the male mindset all too well. There are plenty of men who would treat those women as nothing but a piece of meat. Most guys probably feel some guilt thinking that they've at the very least fantasied about a purely physical encounter without a single thought about a woman's personality or feelings. So, for guys it probably all comes back to self guilt really. That's my guess at least.

IMNOTHERE

Monday, February 15, 2010 7:49 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Look, I feel that prostitution should be legal & regulated, but is the idea that it's a profession to be elevated to some "noble" & semi-spiritual service make any here cringe just a little bit?

Well, the important issue with legalizing prostitution is ensuring the workers truly have a choice and are in control. Giving them professional status, a guild and ensuring that they are highly educated is one possible way of achieving that. A bit of mystery and ritual helps avoid the problem that people can work out the basics of the trade without special training...

However, I think a bit of cringe is appropriate, and an important part of the Inara/Mal relationship: at the top level, Mal doesn't approve of companions and Inara doesn't approve of "independent businessmen (ahem)". A bit deeper, Mal isn't particularly proud of his own current vocation and I was never sure that Inara completely believed her own propaganda (she seemed to have a few wistful moments...)

NCBROWNCOAT

Monday, February 15, 2010 8:09 PM (P)

I saw a bit on TV last week about the first male prostitute (as in he has female clients-not male)legally working in Nevada. OK looking and he lives and works in a trailer at a bordello in the middle of the desert in rural Nevada.

I was wondering how us females feel about that. I don't know if he'll go beyond a novelty. Us women aren't used to having a purely physical act without any emotions involved, paying and walking away.

At least me. I don't judge others but I would prefer an actual relationship exist before sex. I guess I'm just old fashioned.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

THESOMNAMBULIST

Monday, February 15, 2010 8:15 PM (P)

Nope it never bothered me. I think the show did a great job of visualising the profession in the future. But I must admit my take on it would have been similar to Mal's in that were I attracted to a woman who was a companion, and I wanted the relationship to go further, I would in all honesty want her to give up that profession first.

CHRISISALL

Monday, February 15, 2010 9:51 PM (P)

What Somn said.

The laughing Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 12:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Us women aren't used to having a purely physical act without any emotions involved, paying and walking away.

Not at all interested in professional service?

The laughing Chrisisall

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:00 AM (P)

NCbrowncoat: FIRST male prostitute? I doubt it. Gigalos have been around almost as long. Think Ancient Greece, and maybe back to Babylon even.

First openly ADVERTISED male prostitute in a normally female brothel, maybe.

Women have needs much as anyone. Frankly, I'm not interested in sex OR relationships, but I don't believe for a second that women are somehow more "pure" in what they want. That's skirting the Victorian idea of the "fairer sex." I must reject it outright.

EDIT: looks like Chris got there first.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:06 AM (P)

Quote:
But I must admit my take on it would have been similar to Mal's in that were I attracted to a woman who was a companion, and I wanted the relationship to go further, I would in all honesty want her to give up that profession first.

Did he?

In The Message, he tells Inara that he doesn't want her to jeopardize her career helping him.

I think his problem is more that Inara goes off and has sex with other men, and it doesn't seem to him like she's ever going to be interested in HIM. Of course, we know better, but such is the Takahashi couple. Both have each other at arms length for their own reasons, and very little of it has to do with the other person's profession. That's just the easy scapegoat.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Look, I feel that prostitution should be legal & regulated, but is the idea that it's a profession to be elevated to some "noble" & semi-spiritual service make any here cringe just a little bit?

The law and facts don't matter.

Just ask your wife what SHE thinks about it... and about you spending HER money on hookers.

Or how about if your daughter wanted to work that job... or your wife?

Legal or not, that's a hard sell for most folk.

If Mal married Inara... what if she continued as a companion? Great for blackmail (Mal's line of work), which is why so many cops and spies marry hookers. Side benefit for hooker hubbies, all the sex they can stand (or afford) with hookers not their wives... At least until their manparts fall off.

Patty Shultz: "Have you ever been duped?"
Castle: "I've been married twice..."

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

Or how about if your daughter wanted to work that job... or your wife?

Legal or not, that's a hard sell for most folk.

Yep.

The laughing Chrisisall

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

As for the sex-for-dinner thing, I can't believe that actually happens often, (outside Sex and the City episodes) nor do I think it's prostitution when it does. What, you think the woman wouldn't be able to afford dinner otherwise? Or that a woman shouldn't act on an urge (yes, woman have those) simply because it's a common ritual for the man to buy dinner?

In my dating days I'd go 50-50 when possible. But some men were offended by that. Like opening doors - it seemed to make them feel good about themselves to treat me. Sometimes it was sweet, sometimes it was less so - when guys seemed to think I owed them in return. It was never stated, but sometimes the expectation was clearly there. That's just rude! To insist and buying dinner and then insist on payback... sheesh!

But not all women are empowered enough to say no in this situation. They're trained to think they have to do that payback, as men are trained to think the have to pay ahead. So... it's not at all prostitution, is what I'm saying.

ALL dates are job interviews for "prostitution". The key in both types is to not negotiate price for sex. Just agree on a price for something legal (dinner, movie, massage), plus a tip for a happy ending. This according to MANSWERS!!!

If no happy ending after a "tip", on to the next interviewee. Or go buy a real hooker, like Mal did.

Becket: "If you want a happy ending you're in the wrong place."
Castle: "Guess I'll have to try that massage parlor down on _________ ."

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
ALL dates are job interviews for "prostitution".

Wow. What an interesting dating history you must have.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

NCBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:50 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Us women aren't used to having a purely physical act without any emotions involved, paying and walking away.

Not at all interested in professional service?

The laughing Chrisisall

Of course I meant first legal, advertised male prostitute.

Saw the movie about 5 times in a row when I was a freshman in college. I thought I was hot stuff seeing an R rated movie as my parents wouldn't let me see an R rated movie at home. This was in 1978 mind you.

I also wasted no time in seeing Frank Langella as Dracula and multiple showings of The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

What can I say. I'm from a small town in the South and the liberal university town of Chapel Hill, NC corrupted me.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:56 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Haken:

Yeah, same here. My wife and I were just talking about it earlier this evening how we were both fortunate and avoided the whole adult dating circuit.

Speed-dating, dating-in-the-dark, and all the other newfangled ways that people are using to try and find their true love just makes us feel tired and probably not survive the ordeal.

My 20-something business associate did not survive the dating game with strippers and hookers. Or at least parts of him did not...

It was after midnight as he left the strip club enroute to booty call with his favorite paid companion... The country road was dark and snowy, as his pickup truck hit black ice... Dang that invisible dip in the road! What the hell is that guardrail doing there? WTF???!!! BAMM!!! BAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAMBAM... ARRRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!

His pickup speared the defective guardrail head-on... The metal posts were illegally installed 2 feet deep in the soft dirt, making sounds like an assault rifle on full-auto... Dang those Mafia contractors to Hell!!! The sharp end of the "guardrail" speared the truck's grill, missed the engine block, entering the passenger compartment...

The frozen 12-inch-wide rusty steel blade first sliced his testicle from his body... then eviscerated his intestines... then amputated his leg... then separated his pelvis from his body... as another 70-feet of "guardrail" continued to pass through his guts and out the tailgate... as he and his truck and the entire bloody "guardrail" went off the cliff and into the icy creek...

They say it's the sudden stop that kills ya... Dead silence in pitch black in the boonies... Massive hemmoraging as he bled out... Shock setting in as blood pressure drops...

A neighbor wakes up from his slumber watching TV: "What the Hell was THAT?! He calls 9/11 and report gunshots... which made the deputy sheriffs too scared to show up...

The neighbor and his dad grab their flashlights (and guns) and go looking for trouble... After 10 minutes, they find it in a icy creek... They cover the bloody body with a blanket and call 9/11 again to report a crash...

Ambulance shows up 30 minutes after impact... still no cops... Helicopter flies the lifeless corpse to the local "teaching hospital"... The family is called with the news... Doctors tell them, "You better go ahead and make your funeral arrangements..."

Select to view spoiler:

Long story short: $500,000 in med bills, which his parents paid by selling their house to keep doctors from killing him and stealing his organs. He was the only hemipelvectomy to survive in the history of UT hospital. Within 6 months his was bangin his hooker in the hospital. Within 1 year he was water skiing, snow skiing, and driving his modified racecar at Road Atlanta. Went to college and got an engineering degree, which he used to get into the cartheft business with the international mafia and the local sheriff.
piratenews.org/SMRKnoxvilleGroup10RacingIndycars.htm

So watch out for them hookers, or your pecker might get chopped off. BOO!

And if you think companions are dangerous, try texting while driving to booty call.

"I find your argument both disturbing and intriguing."
-Castle

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:19 PM (P)

The Companion element was a great concept that allowed Morena a chance to display her grace, beauty, and charm. She was a strong character, and much of that strength came from her profession. It would not have been as great a series without her presence on Serenity.

GEEZER

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 1:43 PM (P)

Also remember that there were class distinctions among prostitutes in the Firefly 'verse.

In "Heart of Gold", Mal (I think) said something about "...a whole house full of Companions" and Inara replied "No. They're whores."

BTW, A while ago I wrote a fan-fic about Mal's problem with Inara's profession.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=1242

"Keep the Shiny side up"

DMI

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 2:57 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I liked how even after Mal gave Inara so much flack she came in to save him in The Train Job. Makes me wonder who is against legalizing prostitution, men or women? Too much power for women? And if it was legal and women ran it would it be more like in the show?

With the notable counter argument that male prostitution isn't legal either (anyone here watching "Hung"?), I've got to agree with you that prostitution being illegal has been a form of sexism designed to keep woman who use their bodies to their economic empowerment down in the lowest class of citizens called criminals, riddled with disease, drug use and forced to rely on male pimps for protection.

The question isn't whether or not you would want your wife or daughter to do it, the question is, objectively, do the women who engage in this profession have the right to use their bodies as they please and be protected by the law? If you were going to use a prostitute and you had the choice between the hooker on the street corner and a licensed professional that you know has been tested for STDs, wouldn't you use the professional? Taking prostitutes off the streets protects them and the people that use them and would cut down on drug use and trafficking as well as provides another avenue of government taxation to fund schools and police, etc.

So, yea, I think that would be more like it is in the show. And of course there would be a spiritual element to it. It'd be like going to a massage parlor where they have all the eastern music playing and candles lit. I always felt like Inara's shuttle reminded me of a spa.

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

What can I say. I'm from a small town in the South and the liberal university town of Chapel Hill, NC corrupted me.

Hey, fellow ACCer, my seminoles are playing you guys in a week!

I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

PIRATENEWS

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:28 PM (P)

Miss Kitty was a prostitute/madam on TV in Gunsmoke. In real life she smoked like a chimney and died of HIV AIDS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Blake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunsmoke

So Inara's character is nothing new on TV, and FF was a space western. Gotta have a space hooker in the Wild Wild Verse. It's mandatory.

What's new is a hooker is allowed to fall in love (or love/hate). Tho happy hooker Julia Roberts did that in Pretty Woman.

TWO

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Miss Kitty was a prostitute/madam on TV in Gunsmoke. In real life she smoked like a chimney and died of HIV AIDS. So Inara's character is nothing new on TV, and FF was a space western. Gotta have a space hooker in the Wild Wild Verse. It's mandatory.

What's new is a hooker is allowed to fall in love (or love/hate). Tho happy hooker Julia Roberts did that in Pretty Woman.

In “Pretty Woman” Julia Roberts wanted out of prostitution; Inara wants a long career. Maybe Pretty Woman style prostitution is only superficially similar to Companionship.

In Nevada, prostitution is legal and yet prostitutes want out, same as workers at fast food restaurants want a short career in hamburgers. And prostitutes in Nevada are not respected by clients, like us retired Burger King food-handlers didn't get respect when we were working, either. And I deserved respect because a Whopper-maker can kill faster with E. Coli than a prostitute can kill with AIDS.

Being a legalized profession does not explain the high respect and status of Companionship. There has got to be some deeper explanation that Firefly never told us about. The religious angle (Companions are high priestesses of loving compassion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_magic ) doesn't seem to me to be the origin of Inara's status. Anybody got some wildly creative explanation??? Earth bound law and history doesn't go far enough to explain Inara and Companionship. Legalized whoring gets little respect in the 'Verse and Companionship gets lots of respect. Why is that?

The Hetaera of Greece does NOT work for me. (See ecgordon http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=41888#759124 ) That was thousands of years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neaira_%28hetaera%29

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:03 PM (P)

I like the idea of the Companion’s Guild. If you’re going to legalize and regulate prostitution you may as well leave it in the hands of those that do the actual servicing.

Like Two says, though, I was never able to buy into Inara’s high standing either as a Guild member or a sacred whore. It doesn’t make sense that whores, trained and certified in the future would suddenly have social status and credibility, notoriety, like celebrities of today, yes, but not power brokers of tomorrow. Legal doesn’t equal empowerment, money does, and maybe the Guild has a lot of money, like the Church at one time. But the Church was in the business of selling tickets for soul redemption, where the Guild’s services are more of a luxury for the rich, a luxury you can live without, especially if you lose your money, so even that comparison doesn’t hold up.

And, where prostitution is legal already this hasn’t happened, like Nevada. And the prostitutes working there want to leave and go into porn where the real money is.

HoG; the only redeeming thing about HoG, is that it gave us good examples of what happens to whores who don’t have the protection of the Guild and it’s no wonder why Inara kept defending its trained Companions as not being whores. She clearly sees a clear distinction between the two, even when Mal doesn’t, but maybe that’s what Mal learned from what happened at the HoG because he couldn’t protect Nandi, an independent whore.

And, just because we see Inara defending her chosen profession doesn’t mean she wants to do it forever, otherwise if she did, she wouldn’t have left the house to fly on Serenity and end up on backwater moons NOT having any clients to service. And, both Nandi and Saffron ran from the Guild, so something is askew there, too restrictive, probably.

MINCINGBEAST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:47 PM (P)

Yes, absolutely. The companion thing made me keenly aware of my puritanical inhibitions, which I celebrate.

Its not the humping for money part that bugs me, but rather the insistence that humping for money can be an enobling, empowering and spiritually rewarding act. But I'm not really comfortable with the alternative--suggesting that humping for money is fine and dandy so long as it is a degrading and miserable thing.

So, reverence for companions bugs me, and my reaction to companions bugs me, too.

TWO

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 7:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
Like Two says, though, I was never able to buy into Inara’s high standing either as a Guild member or a sacred whore. It doesn’t make sense that whores, trained and certified in the future would suddenly have social status and credibility, notoriety, like celebrities of today, yes, but not power brokers of tomorrow. Legal doesn’t equal empowerment, money does, and maybe the Guild has a lot of money, like the Church at one time. But the Church was in the business of selling tickets for soul redemption, where the Guild’s services are more of a luxury for the rich, a luxury you can live without, especially if you lose your money, so even that comparison doesn’t hold up...

And, just because we see Inara defending her chosen profession doesn’t mean she wants to do it forever, otherwise if she did, she wouldn’t have left the house to fly on Serenity and end up on backwater moons NOT having any clients to service...

I have a solution to the mystery of Inara's superior status, but I'm forced to imagine a history for Companionship. Inara on Serenity is like a professor on a sabbatical. Leaving Serenity, her next role was as an actual teacher back at a Companion operated school.

Imagine the Companion Guild as a rich and self-governed University (think Harvard) with a large endowment. I'll imagine that the Guild was formed on board the ships from Earth. The Guild has a special low tax status in the first constitution written after arriving in the 'Verse. The Guild has been wisely investing its endowment for centuries.

All this imaginary history would give Inara the high status of a Harvard full professor. She wouldn't be paid by the hour -- she's on salary. There's no pressure for her to teach more and more “students” (service more clients). Whatever fees the clients pay are "tuition" going directly to the “University” (the Guild.) By separating sex from money, I think this is a workable way to strongly differentiate Companionship from prostitution. This gives Inara status that high priced call girl could never attain.

And it fits with the science fiction genre: people haven't changed but society has been rearranged into a new order. Companions are on high, prostitutes are low, tenured professors are high, kindergarten teachers are low.

Sorry about that low status, kindergarten teachers, but working with noisy, snot-nosed kids is not as refined as working with 22-year-old graduate students writing dissertations, although there are similarities.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

IMNOTHERE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
It doesn’t make sense that whores, trained and certified in the future would suddenly have social status and credibility, notoriety, like celebrities of today, yes, but not power brokers of tomorrow.

Well, the concept is hardly new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtesan - note that someone has already added a link to Inara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_prostitution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geisha (Although I believe the authentic Geisha service stops at a sexy dance and a nice hot cup of tea).

Quote:

And, just because we see Inara defending her chosen profession doesn’t mean she wants to do it forever, otherwise if she did, she wouldn’t have left the house to fly on Serenity and end up on backwater moons NOT having any clients to service.

Well, Inara's reasons for doing that have been discussed at length, elsewhere, and were clearly going to be an important element of the plot arc had the show continued.

Quote:

And, both Nandi and Saffron ran from the Guild, so something is askew there, too restrictive, probably.

Well, Nandi's problem with the guild was well described in the show - she had no problem with the sex for money thing, but was driven batty by poetry and dulcimer lessons. Saffron was just plain psycho. Well... really, really hot psycho, actually - we never got the full story, she may have been thrown out of the guild with extreme prejudice (probably after having stolen anything not screwed down).

STEGASAURUS

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 8:48 PM (P)

I'm suprised no one as of yet has mentioned the geisha. When I watched the show for the first time, I immediately thought of Inara as a geisha with more spice (after having watched Memoirs of a Geisha).

In Wikipedia it states the following about the origins of a geisha:

Quote:
In early seventeenth-century Japan (long before the word geisha was ever used), the predecessor of the geisha, a combination of actress and prostitute, worked on the stages set in the driver[vague] river bed of the River Kamo in Kyoto. The line between actress and prostitute was then blurred. The women would preform erotic dances and skits for their audiences. This new type of performance was dubbed kabuku, meaning "to be wild and outrageous". They[who?] called her dances kabuki, which was the beginning of kabuki theater.[1]

Traditional Japanese views of sex were very relaxed. It was a society that embraced sexual delights and where men were not constrained to be faithful to their wives. In fact it was socially acceptable to be in love with one's wife, but only what was considered a "professional" woman.[vague] For sexual enjoyment and romantic attachment, men did not go to their wives, but to courtesans. In order to maintain this profession, the Japanese government created "pleasure quarters" where the courtesans could reside and work and men could go to relax and enjoy the entertainment.[1]

These pleasure quarters quickly became glamorous entertainment centers that offered far more that just sex. The highly accomplished courtesans of these districts entertained their clients by dancing, singing, and playing music. Some were even renowned poets and calligraphers. Gradually, they all became specialized and the new profession, purely of entertainment, arose. It was near the turn of the eighteenth century that the first entertainers of the pleasure quarters, called geisha, appeared. The very first geishas were men, entertaining customers waiting to see the most popular and gifted courtesans.[1]

Around 1760, women began to join men in the art of the geisha and very quickly outnumbered the men. The first woman to use the term "geisha" was an Edo prostitute named Kikuya and[vague] became a full-time entertainer. Soon, many women, whether they sold sex or not, began using the term geisha. Doing so was a way of acquiring respectability and proving that they were professionals.[dubious – discuss] The geisha who worked within the pleasure quarters were essentially imprisoned and strictly forbidden to sell sex in order to protect the business of the courtesans. Geisha who worked outside the pleasure quarters, however, could do as they pleased. Eventually, the gaudy courtesans began to fall out of fashion and the geisha were seen as the chic and desirable entertainers they are in modern Japan.

While I realize the geisha is Japanese and not Chinese, what in the world would have stopped Joss from utilizing some Japanese cultural tidbits to further the excitement of his (our) show? Absolutely nothing.

As for it bothering or not bothering me? Not in the least. Our society is going to change 360 degrees 10 times over before we reach the timeframe Firefly/Serentiy is in, and I like to think myself a progressive thinker.

My wife, on the other hand, does not and would not approve.

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:15 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ImNotHere:
Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
It doesn’t make sense that whores, trained and certified in the future would suddenly have social status and credibility, notoriety, like celebrities of today, yes, but not power brokers of tomorrow.

I don't think it would have been sudden. It would have been a very gradual shift over 500 years. That's a long time! Think about it - 100 years ago women in the US couldn't vote and showing an ankle was grounds for sexual assault.

I do like the notion that Companions could be power brokers. There's the challenge: can we put aside our issues with sex enough to appreciate the talents they have? They are trained to read and manipulate people, and that would make them masters at politics and business. If we could all just get over the sex thing, that is...

And it's definitely a question of sexism. The stereotypical male power broker has a varied sex history, probably even has paid for it. That doesn't make him dirty. (ETA: in the eyes of those who do business with him, I mean.)

Quote:
Quote:

And, just because we see Inara defending her chosen profession doesn’t mean she wants to do it forever, otherwise if she did, she wouldn’t have left the house to fly on Serenity and end up on backwater moons NOT having any clients to service.

Well, Inara's reasons for doing that have been discussed at length, elsewhere, and were clearly going to be an important element of the plot arc had the show continued.

I agree. There could be many reasons that Inara left the Core that have nothing to do with her job. In fact, we have plenty of evidence that it wasn't her job. She shows no unwillingness to take clients, and nothing but respect for the Guild.

As for Nandi, Inara doesn't either sympathize or ostracize Nandi for her decision to leave. My take is that Inara accepts that the Guild isn't for everyone. It didn't fit Nandi, that's all.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:15 PM (P)

Companions aren’t exactly empowered as courtesans were, and Companions aren’t exactly Geisha either, because they include sex, where a Geisha of high standing didn’t.

European Courtesans were only given high status because of who they were attached to at the time and most often that was for a limited time, as they could be replaced at anytime. And, once they were cast aside, it was a spiral slide into poverty. It became a short lived and precarious life style. They got what they could get and moved along. There were no guarantees of acceptance, one day you may find yourself on the outs of the social circle because your belonging was based on someone else.

Companions seemed to have high status solely based on having Guild affiliation, which maintains a high set of their own standards. Companions can pick and choose from several clients at the same time, etc. It’s not a singular attachment unless they choose or get an offer.

I guess I didn’t see the necessity of making prostitution legal and controlled by the Guild, and also attach high social status to those who were essentially sex workers, especially since there were a few instances where Inara didn’t seem to have such status on her own, like her lack of her own ticket to the Ball on Persephone, she had to be escorted by Atherton. Badger had tickets. Shouldn’t she have gotten her own invite if she was held in such high esteem? There are too many inconsistencies and not enough information for me to feel comfortable about believing that legal organized professional prostitution would ultimately lead to power, wealth and high social status for those practicing. It’s a nice thought and all very convenient at times, but not realistic.

Two, love the Professor on sabbatical analogy, and yes, I want to TA

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:38 PM (P)

Platonist: I agree that any comparison of Companions to things that have come before will come up short. Obviously! Women have never had the rights and the power over ourselves that we have now, which is all nothing to what we'll have in the future (I hope!)

One thing you're overlooking is the Companion training. The Guild is more than a "disease free" stamp on Inara's ID. It's a whole load of skills that come from years of training. This is what makes the Companion experience different from the quick sex to be had with a whore, and this is what makes a Companion valuable after she's retired. She is more than just sex for pay - this is repeated in the show again and again!

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
I guess I didn’t see the necessity of making prostitution legal and controlled by the Guild, and also attach high social status to those who were essentially sex workers, especially since there were a few instances where Inara didn’t seem to have such status on her own, like her lack of her own ticket to the Ball on Persephone, she had to be escorted by Atherton.

You're making an assumption. Badger had tickets that Mal and Kaylee used, not Inara. The fact that Inara was at the party was completely a plotty coincidence, nothing to do with Badger.

It's very likely that Inara could have gone on her own, but why would she when she had several offers from clients to take her? Anyway, I doubt she'd want to go on her own. When your job is going to parties, you tend to prefer staying home on your free time.

ETA: On further thought, I think you kind of missed the point. Watch that scene after the duel again - Inara was the one with the power to kick Ath out of the party, so to speak, not the other way around!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 9:47 PM (P)

Nope, no problem.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:18 PM (P)

mal4prez, I suddenly feel like the boy in the Parade who calls out that the Emperor has no clothes on because I can’t help feeling that a Companion is a euphemism for a sex worker. And, I too, would love for women to have power by controlling their own sexuality as they desire, in the future, but I think it could have been better served and achieved by making prostitution legal, organized, accepted, and controlled by the Guild without all the unnecessary endowments of high status and social esteem which seem to have been tagged on to convince us that what Inara does is valid and valuable to maintain the social structure and culture of core worlds who embrace enlightenment and moral integrity.

You have to admit, it’s a little gullible to assume that any profession in the future, especially sex work, oh, sorry Companioning, would be held in that high esteem, when none are today. We don’t even trust our trusted attorneys, doctors, and teachers anymore.

And, any educated person can retire and do whatever they want; some marginally educated people can retire and do whatever they want… waves to our own esteemed Arnold.

CHAPTERANDVERSE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:37 PM (P)

Yes. It made me cringe quite a bit. And when I was borrowing it to friends, it was the one aspect of the series I felt I had to defend/apologise for. Its seems a highly unlikely/convenient plot device.

ECGORDON

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:37 PM (P)

Everyone seems to be concentrating on the "sex worker" part of being a Registered Companion, but it makes sense to me that the Guild would have as much political status in the 'Verse as they do social and financial status.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:44 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Everyone seems to be concentrating on the "sex worker" part of being a Registered Companion

Ummm... because it's the most coolest part, I conjure.

Look, I see it as an amusing/interesting plot device, but realistically, I'm with Malcolm Reynolds on this one.

The laughing Chrisisall

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 10:47 PM (P)

Well, It's hard not to concentrate on the sex work aspect of the job, when that's all we see Inara do, sex and serve tea, or teach how to sex and serve tea.

She's not exactly shown balancing budgets, writing grants and bills, or solving governmental crisis.

And, I'm okay with this, and I'm sure Mal would be too, if he was the sole receiver.

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:20 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
mal4prez, I suddenly feel like the boy in the Parade who calls out that the Emperor has no clothes on because I can’t help feeling that a Companion is a euphemism for a sex worker.

I think the show presents something different which you aren't seeing. You're interpreting things to fit your view - there never was any suggestion that Inara couldn't get her own ticket to the ball, for instance. You aren't allowing for everything that is presented.

I'll agree that this Guild thing is not something that can exist today, or even in the near future, but we're talking about 500 years from now. The whole point is that things - including the human mentality - will be different.

ETA: Also, we see Inara do much much more than have sex and drink tea! You might not see all those others things if you're excessively focused... I must admit, it is easy to get tunnel vision with Inara on screen. Even for a hetero female. :)

Quote:
And, I too, would love for women to have power by controlling their own sexuality as they desire, in the future, but I think it could have been better served and achieved by making prostitution legal, organized, accepted, and controlled by the Guild without all the unnecessary endowments of high status and social esteem which seem to have been tagged on to convince us that what Inara does is valid and valuable to maintain the social structure and culture of core worlds who embrace enlightenment and moral integrity.

Sure, the writers of the show gave her all that status to force the viewer to reexamine our assumptions about someone who would exchange sex for money. But again, that's not all there is to it. Inara wins respect and high status because there is more to her. Cause and effect: the cause is her skills, the effect is her status. Not the other way around.

Or do you really not see the skills? Is the sexual aspect that blinding?

Quote:
You have to admit, it’s a little gullible to assume that any profession in the future, especially sex work, oh, sorry Companioning, would be held in that high esteem, when none are today.

No, I don't have to admit that! In fact, I think it's a little silly to assume that the rules that apply today will still hold in 500 years. Again - look at how different everything was 100 years ago, only 1/5 of that time!

Quote:
And, any educated person can retire and do whatever they want; some marginally educated people can retire and do whatever they want… waves to our own esteemed Arnold.

I don't see how this applies. It's not about Inara retiring and doing what she wants. It's about a Companion - any Companion - having certain skills as a result of her training that would be valued by those who don't have a hang-up over her sexual history.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:21 PM (P)

Two: It comes from China and Japan. The obvious parallel in Japan are the Oiran (actual pay for sex high class courtesans) and Geisha (not pay for sex, but flirty companionship and tea and sophisticated entertainment).

And in China, even though the state frowns on it, concubines and escorts are very much a reality. Especially for the rich inner members of the party, who have more than enough power to bend the rules their way and buy off anyone who might go after them for it.

Then when China and America warily shook hands before the first arcs launched, probably these traditions and the Eastern medicine practices merged with American new age hippie/wiccan goddess worship ideas.

Prostitutes serving on the arcs probably became familiar with all the various services, approaches, and ideas making up the later companion profession, and were well appreciated by any unmarried officers or sailors (though probably not so much the civies). When the arcs arrived in the new system, prostitutes had a lot of power from the military and were able to organize and make a demand of legitimacy from the Alliance precursor.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:30 PM (P)

Platonist, you forget, sex is addictive, and for ambitious people it gets lonely at the top. That's where I think the power came from initially.

I think companions try not to mess up marriages, and they all take client confidentiality seriously, but here also, secrets and skeletons in closets are also power. A politician say gets a special treatment, and the guild isn't going to tell anyone, probably, but does that politician want to risk making them mad? What if what the politician does is something that maybe outside confidentiality, charges could be pressed against them, or they could be sued? Hell hath no fury...

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:45 PM (P)

Quote:
Imagine the Companion Guild as a rich and self-governed University (think Harvard) with a large endowment. I'll imagine that the Guild was formed on board the ships from Earth. The Guild has a special low tax status in the first constitution written after arriving in the 'Verse. The Guild has been wisely investing its endowment for centuries.

Aha, yep Two, that's how I see it too.

I should read the entire thread before I comment. ^_^'

Although, it seems also that the Alliance controlls a little bit of the companion training as well, after all, Inara identified in Our Mrs. Reynolds that Saffron is "companion trained" which means "Academy." Probably the same branches of Academy that put River in a special "accelerated" program... And tore her to pieces.

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:45 PM (P)

I'll agree that knowledge is power, B, but I don't think the Guild rules by threats, intimation or blackmail, over time, they wouldn't keep any clients, if they did. I think they've acquired land and wealth more likely, endowments and such.

And more likely, their clients have a broad range of needs, not exclusive to addiction.

PLATONIST

Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:46 PM (P)

Mal4prez, I think my view maybe narrowly defined because I'm only relying on how the show presents Inara's work, and I’m seeing, that she does have sex every time she goes to work, as in a sex worker. I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. I’m not willing to read into it anymore than what is not shown or stated. And, I'm not debating whether or not a Companion needs the upmost in training, skill and personality to fulfill the role competently, all I'm saying is that I think the show could have done a better job in clarifying the limitations and justifications for having Companions held in high esteem, above other professions, like Shepherds, or Firefly pilots. What is this based on?

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 12:00 AM (P)

Yeah, I think it's a better explanation, though I think HOW the guild came to power was by leaning on their powerful clients when everyone was on the arc, and also that a merger of east west is what created their philosophy and practices.

But after that, I can see endowments and tax breaks giving them a lot of money. Very much so.

KPO

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Look, I feel that prostitution should be legal & regulated, but is the idea that it's a profession to be elevated to some "noble" & semi-spiritual service make any here cringe just a little bit?

As someone else said, it's an industry that can cater to upper and lower ends.

So it can be classy. I don't think it can be spiritual. I can accept a certain amount of mysticism along the lines of human psychology but I think 'spiritual' is pushing it. I believe in love, and I believe in lust, these are valid parts of the human experience - any spirituality in sex that goes beyond mere psychology to me is just pretentious - though that's just me, as an atheist. So the idea doesn't appeal to me personally.

As for it being a 'noble' or 'edifying' service, that notion for me is somewhat unconvincing I must say. It strikes me as being at best a morally neutral service - a restaurant is a good analogy: it can be high class or low class but ultimately it's catering to a basic animal instinct - to eat. Joss tried to put companionship more on a level of 'teacher' and 'priest' - professions that edify the mind and the soul. But the comparison doesn't quite fit - in fact it clashes, and seems forced, imo.

Heads should roll

TWO

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:35 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

So it can be classy. I don't think it can be spiritual. I can accept a certain amount of mysticism along the lines of human psychology but I think 'spiritual' is pushing it. I believe in love, and I believe in lust, these are valid parts of the human experience - any spirituality in sex that goes beyond mere psychology to me is just pretentious - though that's just me, as an atheist. So the idea doesn't appeal to me personally.

As for it being a 'noble' or 'edifying' service, that notion for me is somewhat unconvincing I must say. It strikes me as being at best a morally neutral service - a restaurant is a good analogy: it can be high class or low class but ultimately it's catering to a basic animal instinct - to eat. Joss tried to put companionship more on a level of 'teacher' and 'priest' - professions that edify the mind and the soul. But the comparison doesn't quite fit - in fact it clashes, and seems forced, imo.

I got this fanciful notion: “Companions want their client's friendship; prostitutes want just their money.” That explains why a Companion is not like a prostitute (temple, geisha, call girl, etc.). And it seems to match Inara's actions. Real prostitutes try to keep their personal lives separate from their work. But for Companions there is no separation. They want love and friendship from clients. That's what I think.

I remember Inara looking at photos of potential clients. I imagine a science fiction future where there are Companion Guild certified-accurate psychological profiles that give Inara insight to a client.

When Inara searches a new client's profile, she is picking a permanent friend, hopefully. Inara is searching for people that could fall in love with her. She's out on the Rim because she's disillusioned with the shriveled and dried-up hearts of Core people.

Remember Atherton Wing, the sword duelist? Inara picked wrong. She had such high hopes for him, but all the care that Inara took and all the time she spent with Atherton and he was a monster hidden underneath that polished exterior. Since it was Joss Whedon's show, that's where we got our entertainment, by watching what went so wrong.

Finally:
Julia Roberts in “Pretty Woman” is not how real prostitution works. The best a real prostitute can hope for is to become Sasha Grey in “The Girlfriend Experience” http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1103982/synopsis It is depressing to watch Sasha's life, even as she grows rich & famous. If Companions existed, they, too, would be saddened by Sasha Grey's life.

Sasha is a version of a Companion from a parallel dimension. She's going through the motions of being a loving person with real feelings. When she's with a client, she switches to autopilot. First she does this, then she does that, then she charges the client's credit card. Maybe she has injected herself with Novocaine, making herself numb, mistaking that for self-control? As beautiful as Sasha Grey is, she is faking love. Because Inara/Morena Baccarin has the spirit, my choice is her, even if she shaved her head and morphed into a Visitor lizard. Her spirit shows when she plays a Companion. She is not faking. Or if she is, Inara's doing an award winning performance.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:57 PM (P)

No, not at all. I think the whole thing was handled quite nicely (as far as TV is concerned).

My guess is that as 'we' become more 'civilized' 500 years into the future the world's oldest profession gets a makeover and blends into the mainstream.

I'm also guessing by the way everyone treats Inara that the semi-religious connotation lends an air of credibility and social acceptance - almost like royalty. I imagine the earth has gone through some major changes economically, as well as political. The Geisha elevated to new heights because of the mixing of the cultures - both East and West.

Perhaps some wise warlord thought it was an easy buck and made the business decision to harness the power of sex.

SGG

Tawabawho?

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 5:58 PM (P)

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Quote:
Did he?
In The Message, he tells Inara that he doesn't want her to jeopardize her career helping him.

Yes but what Mal says and what Mal does are two very different things...

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:17 PM (P)

I think it's more likely Mal being pissed off and mean is a front than him being nice is a front. I see glimpses of niceness from Mal being glimpses of his real self. So if Mal is nice to Inara occasionally about her profession, that seems to suggest to me hints about how he might really feel about it. He doesn't seem to hold whoring against Nandi. Something about Inara just makes Mal defensive, so he lashes out instead of says what he really thinks and feels.

KPO

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Real prostitutes try to keep their personal lives separate from their work. But for Companions there is no separation. They want love and friendship from clients. That's what I think.

I see - so you could describe companionship as like 'an art of intimacy', and the sex is a natural part of it?

That's an interesting idea, but quite a difficult one to write I imagine. All too easy to fall into cliches - like Inara in Jaynestown turning a quivering 'boy' into a decisive 'man' in one episode, just by sleeping with him (and also a little bit of life coaching).

It has to be more deep and complex than this, for me. I would like to see the idea represented well - companionship making a significant and credible difference in a person's life. It would be posible to write this, but difficult and involved I think (especially difficult when condensed into just one episode).

Quote:
Her spirit shows when she plays a Companion. She is not faking. Or if she is, Inara's doing an award winning performance.

Morena's performance left me cold, I sometimes wonder if there's something wrong with me...

I don't like the way she delivers her lines, in like her witty exchanges with Mal - that's one thing... she seems to hurry them and just recite them it seems... Hmm.

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:53 PM (P)

Wha... Really?

I've always thought she gets REALLY animated when they're fighting. And her eyes kind of do this flashy thing, her facial expressions are pretty excellent. Like in Trash, that was a particularly good fight. And her shocked look that the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds is well done too.

Maybe it's her tone when the fighting is more subdued. Her snarky tone is very subtle. I know people who actually think Inara's specialty really IS washing feet (it's not. Snark!).

I like that she has range and can be subtle, because the CHARACTER is subtle. And when she gets really mad, and she speeds up like that, it doesn't strike me as bad acting, it's a superbly done "feisty latina girl." Hands on the hips, huffy gasp, I half expect her to let fly with a whole bunch of angry indecipherable Spanish all running together. It's awesome, I love that Morena was willing to bring that to the portrayal, it's a very spirited interpretation.

And maybe it's just me, or maybe it's just a girl thing, but that is just such a perfectly expressed non-verbal "Oh no you DIDN'T!" that I can't help squeeing a little inside.

Morena, argument, can't act? Doesn't compute.

TWO

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 7:55 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Real prostitutes try to keep their personal lives separate from their work. But for Companions there is no separation. They want love and friendship from clients. That's what I think.

I see - so you could describe companionship as like 'an art of intimacy', and the sex is a natural part of it?

That's an interesting idea, but quite a difficult one to write I imagine. All too easy to fall into cliches - like Inara in Jaynestown turning a quivering 'boy' into a decisive 'man' in one episode, just by sleeping with him (and also a little bit of life coaching).

It has to be more deep and complex than this, for me. I would like to see the idea represented well - companionship making a significant and credible difference in a person's life. It would be posible to write this, but difficult and involved I think (especially difficult when condensed into just one episode).

I don't want Inara to be a selfless Buddhist sex therapist. I prefer to imagine her as selfishly bedding people to make friendship. Money comes secondary. She helps little Mister whats-his-name in Jaynestown, the callow and inexperienced youth, to grow because she's looking for a friend when the kid finally get some emotional maturity. If Inara wants to make a friend, she acts friendly, and that kid needed her help. Inara was thinking long term relationship with the kid -- after his old fart father dies. That's why Companions take clients from the important people -- to make connections. Mal's a nobody. Inara doesn't need his friendship.

We can pretend that the 'Verse has recently left some Golden Age of Sex, maybe because of war, where the Companions' ideals could be reliably expressed. A time when relationships worked properly. The 'Verse has fallen into the Lead Age, where there are billions of guys like Atherton Wing, narcissistic, all polished surface, no interior life, who will never love Inara no matter how many times she makes love to them.

[Then there is rough, ill-mannered, emotionally complex Mal, Atherton's complete opposite. That's not right, Jayne is Atherton's exact opposite. I don't think Inara is willing to go as low as Jayne while searching for authentic love and friendship. There are limits.]

Somebody could write fan fiction about Inara's disillusionment with Companionship. A few more bad clients ought to make her crave retirement. She can switch permanently to teaching. If she was a whore, Inara wouldn't care for anything but being paid. She'd never stop taking clients. The Atherton Wings of the Universe are good enough for whores. The 'Verse is growing cold and hostile toward what Companionship is. The 'Verse is getting mean and nasty, like Earth-That-Was was. There could be years of drama in that for Inara.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:07 PM (P)

Wait wait wait. Switch over to teaching girls how to do the thing she couldn't stand any more, for clients she couldn't stand anymore? Send them out into a verse that's gone cold and mean towards her ideals of love and comfort, took a profession she trained for since she was twelve and crushed all her idealism and enjoyment out of it?

Sounds like happy times.

There are plenty of fanfiction about Inara's disillusionment, and while some are well written and very pretty, they're all kind of alternate character interpretations. Even if Inara has had some bad clients, she's never expressed anything but satisfaction and pride for her career. Putting up with the occasional boor seems to be part of that.

Quote:
If she was a whore, Inara wouldn't care for anything but being paid. She'd never stop taking clients. The Atherton Wings of the Universe are good enough for whores.

And this. What? So most whores today, they can stop taking clients whenever they want, huh? They only do it so they get paid, that a fact? And getting hit by some rich jerk, uglied up so no one else wants them, that's "good enough" for a whore? So Inara has to like her clients to be a good person? To want their love and friendship (which I don't think she does)?

I don't agree. She has a job, she wants to be independent, she wants to spend what time she has in dignity and comfort.

What's with all the judgment? She's making money to support herself. Yeah, maybe she could do other things. But if she likes this, isn't that her choice? Why take that away from her?

TWO

Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wait wait wait. Switch over to teaching girls how to do the thing she couldn't stand any more, for clients she couldn't stand anymore? Send them out into a verse that's gone cold and mean towards her ideals of love and comfort, took a profession she trained for since she was twelve and crushed all her idealism and enjoyment out of it?

Sounds like happy times.

There are plenty of fanfiction about Inara's disillusionment, and while some are well written and very pretty, they're all kind of alternate character interpretations. Even if Inara has had some bad clients, she's never expressed anything but satisfaction and pride for her career. Putting up with the occasional boor seems to be part of that.

Quote:
If she was a whore, Inara wouldn't care for anything but being paid. She'd never stop taking clients. The Atherton Wings of the Universe are good enough for whores.

And this. What? So most whores today, they can stop taking clients whenever they want, huh? They only do it so they get paid, that a fact? And getting hit by some rich jerk, uglied up so no one else wants them, that's "good enough" for a whore? So Inara has to like her clients to be a good person? To want their love and friendship (which I don't think she does)?

I don't agree. She has a job, she wants to be independent, she wants to spend what time she has in dignity and comfort.

What's with all the judgment? She's making money to support herself. Yeah, maybe she could do other things. But if she likes this, isn't that her choice? Why take that away from her?

It's not that terrible. Inara doesn't need to be a hypocrite to still work with those that maybe, someday, become Companions. Inara could be a physical education and creative writing teacher. She teaches archery and English. A teen entering a Companion school doesn't mean they're destined to be a Companion, no more than starting high school means you will go on to college and become a Licensed Electrical Engineer. You may end up being an electrician.

As for Inara STOPPING taking clients, why not? Inara's better than me. Whores and me are paid by people we don't like and work under dreadful conditions. Inara would tell a bad client to bend over and take this job and shove it without K-Y jelly. Me, I don't have the courage to quit. I got to work. Unless a prostitute is Sasha Grey in the "The Girlfriend Experience" they are stuck in their crappy job, like it or not, until better comes along. Some of us don't have good options.

Bytemite, this thread is for explaining why Inara and Companions get extraordinary respect. If Companions act like me, wage slaves, fearful and angry at their employers, getting all their self-worth from their career, Companions wouldn't be respected. Companions have to arrogantly believe they're better than that or they will be mistreated. And sometimes they need to quit the job or go on strike or call the police rather than suffer abuse.

Inara could follow the example of the writers strike in Hollywood. Why go on strike? They were getting paid. They got their names on movies or TV episodes. They could have peacefully capitulated to the Studio. But they didn't. Well, some of them retired. Some took the Studios side against the Union.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 12:00 AM (P)

But... WHAT abuse? It only makes sense to go on strike if your Employer is abusing you, and Inara's employer is the guild, not her clients. Furthermore, it's made pretty clear that companions choose their clients. She doesn't have to quit her job to get away from the Atherton Wings of the world. You seem to be making an assumption that Inara's situation is automatically abusive and/or exploitive.

And normally I'd agree with you, comparing her to real whores in the modern day, and I'd also point out that Joss Whedon is using feminism to hide the fact that Inara is being oggled in the show and treated like a sex object. But apparently she's choosing it and SHE doesn't see it as abusive or exploitive, or why would she even think of training other girls into it? Call it a poor representation of the profession, if you must, but it still doesn't make Inara abused or exploited, because nothing suggests that she is. And as you said, she has the option to quit... Most whores don't. That alone says her situation IS better, for whatever reason.

TWO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
But... WHAT abuse? It only makes sense to go on strike if your Employer is abusing you, and Inara's employer is the guild, not her clients. Furthermore, it's made pretty clear that companions choose their clients. She doesn't have to quit her job to get away from the Atherton Wings of the world. You seem to be making an assumption that Inara's situation is automatically abusive and/or exploitive. ...

Inara's Companion career is on a long, slow detour. She is teaching and not seeing Clients. Not even at parties, on weekends or festivals. I'll take the following dialog as evidence. It is from page 136 of the 190 page script for Serenity, the one where Wash and Book live http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

MAL: So how many has it been? Clients.
INARA: There are so many levels on which that's none of your business.
MAL: Come on, death on the doorstep, can't be truthsome with an old friend?
INARA: Well, let's see, five months, minimum three hour visit, plus regulars and extended contracts, allowing holidays...(does the math in her head) ... none.
MAL: None.
INARA: I've been teaching, Mal, you know that.
MAL: So, none.
INARA: Let it go, Mal.

I can't believe Inara's too busy teaching to have time for sex. I don't know why Inara stopped seeing Clients. Maybe she's on strike? Maybe she's unhappy with some Clients? All Clients? Maybe she is trying to impress Mal? Only Joss knows Inara's motives. I do know that she is still a Companion.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I think it's more likely Mal being pissed off and mean is a front than him being nice is a front. I see glimpses of niceness from Mal being glimpses of his real self. So if Mal is nice to Inara occasionally about her profession, that seems to suggest to me hints about how he might really feel about it. He doesn't seem to hold whoring against Nandi. Something about Inara just makes Mal defensive, so he lashes out instead of says what he really thinks and feels.

Mal doesn't hold whoring against Nandi because he isn't in love with Nandi. He is in love with Inara. His conflict comes from the fact that he has fallen in love with a woman who is invoved in a profession that he does not regard as honourable.

Mal sleeps with Nandi for one reason only : To highlight to Inara how painful it is when someone you love engages in a sexual act with a complete stranger.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:56 AM (P)

Quote:
Mal sleeps with Nandi for one reason only : To highlight to Inara how painful it is when someone you love engages in a sexual act with a complete stranger.

Um, well, I'm pretty sure Mal's intention wasn't making Inara jealous. I'm pretty sure he was hoping she wouldn't find out, because considering his constant insults, it seems pretty hypocritical of him.

Now if you mean that was the reason for that particular plot point... Maybe and maybe not. We don't KNOW what Joss intended.

But considering how Joss recently outed what Inara's secret is, Inara's secret suggests her grief over that instance, and her subsequent leave taking, are far deeper and more complicated than just Inara having the tables turned on her. Inara leaving because Mal slept with Nandi, compared to the hundreds of times she slept with other men doesn't make sense if you think about it. Why wouldn't she just stay and quit companioning if the whole thing was just Inara feeling guilty? Why SHOULD Inara feel guilty? They're not together, not really. And what's with Inara apparently wanting Mal to go after her in Those Left Behind? Not exactly a guilty conscience wanting to disappear, rather, it appears she's hoping for Mal to prove something to her, which it appears he's done so by the end of the movie. My take is Inara wanted to see if she could rely on him to not just abandon her... Which she NEEDS to know, because a lot of people probably wouldn't bother, in light of her secret.

And, BTW, Inara calls Mal a petty thief to his face, but when he's not around, she calls him "noble" and "a Robin Hood." Very similar to Mal being more charitable about Inara's profession when SHE'S not around. They're both reflections of each other, and they both think the other has more honour than might be expected at surface glance.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:12 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

And, BTW, Inara calls Mal a petty thief to his face, but when he's not around, she calls him "noble" and "a Robin Hood." Very similar to Mal being more charitable about Inara's profession when SHE'S not around. They're both reflections of each other, and they both think the other has more honour than might be expected at surface glance.

VERRRRY astute, Byte!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:19 AM (P)

Well, yeah. She's not exactly on strike, though, because the guild is still her employer and still paying her and she is still a companion.

I'm not sure how well she could teach from Serenity if she took that up again. Teaching new companions seems to be sort of hands on required, if the movie is anything to go by. Obviously this was an alternative job she found she could do within the guild, while no longer on Serenity. It happened to be a stationary job. What if she got tired of waiting for Mal, and jumped on another ship, and resumed her other job, which probably pays better?

What's she going to do once she gets back on Serenity and is traveling again? Assuming they aren't all fugitives at the end of the movie still, because otherwise they're flat out screwed because none of them can get any work (or at least work Mal would likely be okay accepting). So assuming they aren't fugitives, except for Simon and River, because the Operative says people will still be looking for them. What does Inara do? The crew can't afford dead weight, so she has to contribute somehow. How do you respect her spirit and desire for independence with a job she can take after all this?

The problem is, if she retires from Companioning then confines herself to just one field, even something relatively empowering, like say politics, then she's going to be giving up something else she enjoys (in the example of politics, comforting and nurturing people). Ultimately, being a companion allows Inara to do EVERYTHING that she likes doing, there really isn't any other job out there that fits her better and makes her as useful to have around on Serenity (what with the apparent companion near-diplomatic immunity power).

Though I've been thinking recently there might be some potential for Inara free-lancing for ALL the aspects of her profession (diplomacy, arm-candy, parties, massage, therapy, entertainment/art/music), except the sex, which is what guild membership seems to make legal. And when she's not working, I imagine she'd make an excellent quartermaster, and be pretty good at working her own contacts to run higher end, safer cargo.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:29 AM (P)

Chris: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the reason Joss changed the dialogue exchange with Wash in the pilot, right before Inara is introduced to him saying "someone on this boat has to make an honest living." Originally what Joss had planned for Mal to say wasn't too flattering, but I think it was changed entirely to set up this "what's beyond the surface, what's the difference between what they feel and the masks they show each other" dynamic.

The more pleasant exchange in The Message could have a few interpretations. If you take the Message in it's original order, with this being after Heart of Gold, then it potentially becomes Mal trying to be nice to convince her to stay or him thinking "screw it, I've lost her anyway." But if you take it in the new order, there's no apparent reason for Mal to say something nice there, and it seems more like he slipped up and said something honest.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:42 AM (P)

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Quote:
Um, well, I'm pretty sure Mal's intention wasn't making Inara jealous. I'm pretty sure he was hoping she wouldn't find out, because considering his constant insults, it seems pretty hypocritical of him.

Here's Mal and Inara at an impass in thier relationship. Mal is suddenly faced with the opportunity of a beautiful woman (Nandi) showing interest in him that involves more than just put downs and hurtful remarks, and so he seizes the opportunity. Not because he's interested in Nandi but because it will cause Inara to react. What kind of a reaction doesn't matter.... And of course she's going to find out, they are in the whore house! Hypocrisy is irrelevant. (It was hypocritical of him to allow her on the ship in the first place if he is so principled). That's why the plot focusses on Inara breaking down and crying. That's the reaction we HAVE to see. There is no other reason why that shot is in the show but to illustrate what MAL has intentionally done to INARA. It's the money shot as far as thier relationship goes because now WE know that Inara absolutely loves Mal.

Quote:
But considering how Joss recently outed what Inara's secret is, Inara's secret suggests her grief over that instance, and her subsequent leave taking, are far deeper and more complicated than just Inara having the tables turned on her. Inara leaving because Mal slept with Nandi, compared to the hundreds of times she slept with other men doesn't make sense if you think about it.

It makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Why wouldn't she just stay and quit companioning if the whole thing was just Inara feeling guilty?

It's not about making Inara feel guilty it's about Inara understanding what MAl feels. She now knows what it is like to be in love with someone who has sex for a reason other than love.

Quote:
Why SHOULD Inara feel guilty?

I'm not saying she should feel guilty - but it's about pain. She put Mal through pain, and that's Mal's way of deflecting it back at her, without having to say to her "I love you Inara - and this is what you do to me every time you go off with your clients".

Quote:
And, BTW, Inara calls Mal a petty thief to his face, but when he's not around, she calls him "noble" and "a Robin Hood." Very similar to Mal being more charitable about Inara's profession when SHE'S not around. They're both reflections of each other, and they both think the other has more honour than might be expected at surface glance.

Indeed they are but they are bound by an inner conflict/pride if you like, that won't allow them to reveal to each other how they feel.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:42 AM (P)

In my opinion, the thing with Nandi wasn't ABOUT Inara. Look at his reaction when he sees her the next morning. He wasn't thinking ahead at all. It wasn't jealousy, and really don't think it was I love you, so I'm going to hurt you. It was Mal, needing comfort, and thinking Inara would never be willing to fulfill that need for him.

The attempted conversation at the end of that episode is much closer to I love you, but Inara cuts him off, because she can't stay.

She DOES leave because she can't stand what she's doing to Mal, but I don't think it's the way you think it is. Inara thinks if she stays it's going to destroy him, and it's not because of her profession. At the end of the movie, she realizes that he might be able to withstand what's coming and be there for her, so she maybe kinda sorta discusses staying with him.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:29 AM (P)

Bytemite wrote:

Quote:
In my opinion, the thing with Nandi wasn't ABOUT Inara.

It's all about Inara. They are down there because of Inara. Mal is doing Inara a favour.

Quote:
Look at his reaction when he sees her the next morning. He wasn't thinking ahead at all. It wasn't jealousy, and really don't think it was I love you, so I'm going to hurt you. It was Mal, needing comfort, and thinking Inara would never be willing to fulfill that need for him.

Mal is always thinking ahead. It's his character. It is NOT about jealousy, it is about Mal illustrating to Inara what he has to feel when she goes off with her clients. And it's right in her face this time.

Where/how do you surmise it's about Inara feeling she would never fulfill him?

Quote:
The attempted conversation at the end of that episode is much closer to I love you, but Inara cuts him off, because she can't stay.

... and why can't she stay?....

Quote:
She DOES leave because she can't stand what she's doing to Mal, but I don't think it's the way you think it is. Inara thinks if she stays it's going to destroy him, and it's not because of her profession. At the end of the movie, she realizes that he might be able to withstand what's coming and be there for her, so she maybe kinda sorta discusses staying with him.

Well I don't think I stated why I think Inara leaves Mal? But to clear that up I would guess (because there really aren't many clues with this one) but I would guess it's because Inara has that option left to her. It's the one thing remaining that she is able to utilise to control thier relationship and it's less degrading than Mal telling her to leave - always a possibility. (But this is a big guess) It could simply be she can't stand the sight of him now he's bedded one of her friends. - (I've been there with this one!)

and..... Destroy him how? I'm not sure I follow you on this one....

But Bytemite - I wanted to say how much fun this is. I love the fact there are so many interpretations to this show and it's always interesing to read things from others and reconsider Firefly from alternative viewpoints. Gives me more reasons to re-watch Firefly and now in particular Hearts of Gold

Just to say I don't regard my point of view as definative ( I hope it's not coming across that way)

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:18 PM (P)

I know this thread is about the whole companion issue, but I think Mal and Inara are an important subpoint of this. Mal is the designated, genre savvy hero of Firefly, the story starts with him (and him opening up a box with an omniscient MacGuffin Girl in it), so a lot of people take their cues on how to feel about companions from Mal.

So I think how Mal feels about companions, and particularly what Inara does, is very important to this conversation. I hope you'll all indulge me a little longer, because this conversation I think has it's place in the bigger picture here.

Quote:
Mal is always thinking ahead. It's his character. It is NOT about jealousy, it is about Mal illustrating to Inara what he has to feel when she goes off with her clients. And it's right in her face this time.

Ehm... I have to disagree with you on the first part, about Mal thinking ahead. Mal has always struck me as a pretty impulsive, "flying by the seat of his pants and change course on the turn of a dime" kind of guy. He says and does PLENTY of things that it seems to me he's kicking himself about later, even if they seem necessary at the time (and sometimes they aren't). Look at his terse comments to Kaylee in Shindig, or in the movie, after they leave Haven, and he goes to the shuttle and kind of just pauses there to absorb what he's done. He probably did have to do this, but turning Serenity into a Reaver ship and defiling their friends is a very "shoot the poor diseased dog" kind of thing. The thing is, a lot of his ideas are good ideas, so even though he has absolutely TERRIBLE luck, he's able to adjust on the fly and save as many people as possible, which makes him a good captain. Mal isn't the chessmaster, thinking several moves ahead. That's River.

If it's not about jealousy, why does it upset Mal so much? And why should it hurt Inara?

And also, is this really something Mal does? Hurt people he cares about in a pre-calculated way? He hurts them, no question about, and insults them, but it always seems to me like he was just being insensitive, speaking off the cuff, or that he was mad and not really in control of what he was saying. If it's pre-calculated to rub in Inara's face and hurt her, isn't that a little sadistic? This is quite a bit different from telling Simon that Kaylee's dead and terrifying the poor boy into thinking he and his sister are a few minutes from airlock city. That was a mean joke. I don't really think either he or Inara thought his night with Nandi was funny.

And it's almost like you're suggesting Inara needs to be hurt to be shown the error of her ways... Almost like she deserves it?

Quote:
... and why can't she stay?....

Now, it could very well be that she can't stand the sight of Mal, though that seems inconsistent with her wanting him to stop her/go after her in Those Left Behind, and her seemingly happily coming back to Serenity after the events of Miranda two months later.

But me, I think she can't stay because

Select to view spoiler:

She's dying. Mal loves her, and she knows it, and watching how Nandi's death affected him gave her a glimpse of the future. And he barely KNEW Nandi, yet he was still blaming himself for her death. Imagine how Mal will feel if Inara dies? I think it will destroy him, because here he is, trying to move on to Serenity Valley, trying to build himself and his crew a future, and he's struggling at it as it is.

My impression is that Inara wanted to spare him from that, but part of her wants him to be strong enough that he can stay with her and help her face this, because she's scared and lonely. And dying.

Inara maybe represents something normal for him, a luxury, maybe an actual future, a home with kids running around. He does express that he wants kids. What's so painful about this is his talk about "a passel of youngin's" reminds Inara that she can't have any with him, that she can't be with him. Similarly, his being with Nandi reminds Inara of what she can't have.

Oh, and I have links to prove it, but watch out, major spoilers.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:25 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Mal sleeps with Nandi for one reason only : To highlight to Inara how painful it is when someone you love engages in a sexual act with a complete stranger.

Very interesting Som. When I first read your post I thought, "hmmmm.... that's pretty good!" But the more I think about it the more I think Mal just wanted to f*ck. In fact, he's just that much of a clod that he DOESN'T think those kinds of things through, which only ads to Inara's pain. "He didn't even have the decency to think about how it would affect me!"

I also think it underscores what a hypocrite she is, and her realization of it, which leads to her decision to leave. She thought she could separate "sex" from "love" (she's a trained professional after all) but she's finding she can't - which ultimately takes us to the movie and her decision to stay. Her comment in HoG to Mal about it not mattering seemed flat and by rote, no sincerity at all, like "I know what I'm suppose to feel even if I don't."

There are other conflicts between them, like class distinctions. Mal's a commoner or lower, while Inara is High Society. It's more than who she sleeps with, it's who she is. She hangs out with the Dr. since he's people, where her growing feelings for Mal probably surprise her and shake her sense of control - "he's not even one of my people." Her tone with him can be very snippy and condescending (which he ignores). I think that's an unresolved conflict that also pushes her to leave.
And then forward again to the movie when she's deciding to stay and we see her without any of her Companion trappings of dress or makeup, like she's ready to go "slumming" with Mal.

I like what TWO was suggesting about Companions versus Whores - Companions wanting friendship, whores money. What if it goes further, what if part of their training was in the art of making their clients fall in love with them? Not just the art of physical pleasure, but really get inside their hearts, where it seemed completely mutual and real? That would be a powerful "service."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:28 PM (P)

Well, pizmo, I disagree, and see above for why. I'd do a step by step argument here, but I got a site visit thing I gotta do. Be back later!

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, pizmo, I disagree, and see above for why. I'd do a step by step argument here, but I got a site visit thing I gotta do. Be back later!

Looking forward to it - I didn't see your post since we posted at about the same time. That spoiler does add to the mix... I'm not sure how just yet though. :)

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

TWO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I like what TWO was suggesting about Companions versus Whores - Companions wanting friendship, whores money. What if it goes further, what if part of their training was in the art of making their clients fall in love with them? Not just the art of physical pleasure, but really get inside their hearts, where it seemed completely mutual and real? That would be a powerful "service."

That's an old-fashion scifi idea: Companions are highly respected because they are the human-embodied essence of Love Potion No. 9. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_Potion_No._9_%28film%29 Wasn't there an elixir in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince[2009] that did almost the same? “Amortentia doesn't create actual love. That would be impossible. But it does cause a powerful infatuation or obsession. And for that reason, it is probably the most dangerous potion in this room.” I think Companions agree with J. K. Rowling about it being a dangerous idea. I think they're too ethical to do that to their Clients.

I'm going to be romantic and postulate that the friendship between Companion and Client is real. Anything less in the relationship feels like failure to a Companion and that's why they are highly esteemed.

And to make things worse for Inara, she is not creating as many of the connections she expects. She feels like a failure. That might be why she temporarily stopped seeing Clients during the 5 months she is away from Serenity -- she's trying to get her old confidence back.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
I'm going to be romantic and postulate that the friendship between Companion and Client is real. Anything less in the relationship feels like failure to a Companion and that's why they are highly esteemed.

I prefer your romantic take to mine, because I like to think of Inara as a genuine person, and yet... if Companions have that power (and I'm not suggesting that they have a potion or some kind of hypnotics, just great understanding through training and years of accumulated experience, The Training House), they would be a very powerful group in the 'Verse. What if

Inara left because they were getting too political, using their power for other things than Companioning?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

TWO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I prefer your romantic take to mine, because I like to think of Inara as a genuine person, and yet... if Companions have that power (and I'm not suggesting that they have a potion or some kind of hypnotics, just great understanding through training and years of accumulated experience, The Training House), they would be a very powerful group in the 'Verse. What if Inara left because they were getting too political, using their power for other things than Companioning?

That's two ideas. Companions are the Bene Gesserit from “Dune” Or they are the “spice.” One or both. Wiki quote: The story explores the complex and multi-layered interactions of politics, religion, ecology, technology, and human emotion, as the forces of the Empire confront each other for control of Arrakis and its "spice". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_%28novel%29

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:40 PM (P)

Fascianting, thought-provoking stuff!

However, my distrust of nuance and depth councils me that maybe Inara is just the 25th century Ashley Dupree, gussied up with Buddhism and faux-spirituality. I hope that doesn't sound unduly dismissive, but the fact is that she puts out for money, however we frame it.

Sad how Inara having sex with strangers (which is a very friendly thing to do) makes me cringe, while Mal shooting strangers (not so friendly) makes me applaud. Something about the American psyche makes violence seem wholesome, perhaps even regenerative, while sex is just icky.

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
That's two ideas.

It is indeed, the first one of Companions being real with their customers (yours) or being fake and manipulative (mine), led me to the second one; expanding their sphere of influence through manipulation, something you believe Inara would not like or want to be a part of AND THEREFORE, giving her motivation to leave the Guild.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:08 PM (P)

Okay, back, yay! Also my map generator thingie is working on my computer, which means I'm not going to have to spend all day redoing figures and I have time for a few comments.

Okay, so, actually, I was a bit hasty with my blanket disagreement, pizmo, there's really only one thing you said that I disagree with, the other two points I'm right with you.

Nathan said in the visual companions that his take on the whole Mal/Nandi scene is that it's Mal "wanting to be human for a little while, which isn't something he really allows himself much." Or something like that.

I think it wasn't to hurt Inara, but rather that at the time, Mal actually wanted whatever it was Nandi was offering. I also think it was more than "just sex," that Nandi was actually doing some Companioning. Here Mal is, he offers to help Inara's friend as a gesture to Inara, right? And Inara has to brush it off as just business, because she can't let anything go deeper between them, she can't accept the gift/favour Mal was offering.

Well, that HURTS. The "strictly business" comment when they're introduced and Inara's subsequent eye-roll tells Nandi right away that Mal is feeling rejected. So Nandi was giving Mal something he wanted, telling him things about Inara and giving him a night with a companion. Nandi was trying to be helpful, because it seemed to both Nandi and Mal that Inara just plain wasn't interested and Mal's feelings were unrequited. Hence what I said about Mal needing comfort, and believing Inara would never offer it. Thus, Mal's lie about only two people in the room, he's still thinking about Inara or maybe trying to forget about Inara (only to be reminded the next morning).

Mal has no idea that Inara has any feelings for him at all, I mean it doesn't even seem like the idea even occurs to him in Our Mrs. Reynolds, so why would he think that sleeping with Nandi would somehow "show" Inara how he feels about anything? Mal's discomfort was over his apparent hypocrisy, and then anguish as Inara seems to reinforce that it doesn't bother her and she doesn't care about him.

I actually agree with you that there's a class issue here, but I see it more on Mal's side. Inara seems remarkably just fine hanging out in a seedy bar in Shindig, or hell, even just renting a shuttle on a low-end transport. Does she seem judgmental towards Kaylee? Zoe? Wash? They all seem to have working class backgrounds. Yet she's kind and friendly to them, and I think that's genuine. It's only when Mal's around that she puts on airs, and that's to discourage him, because she doesn't want to get involved with him.

But with Mal, unfortunately, that feeds a very real class distinction that HE sees and that seems insurmountable to him. He sees Inara and Simon and sees Simon as a threat, Simon as "more right" for Inara, more "Inara's type," like her clients. He dislikes Simon IMMEDIATELY based on apparent class. And to Inara, he retaliates with the whore comments, in an effort to try to bring Inara down to his level. But while he thinks maybe Inara is misguided and idealistic in regards to her profession (like the conversations in Shindig, about "the lie of it"), I don't think he believes his insults.

And Two pointed out this problem, but Inara offering actual love for money is dangerous.

Actually, I don't really like the friendship idea, because that feels very manipulative and unethical to me. I don't think Inara MAKES people feel ANYTHING, I think people feel that on their own.

Why does Inara have to offer anything other than sex, beauty, grace, and comfort? Why does she have to be anything different to be a high class whore, or even set apart from whores in general? I think we can all agree that maybe while the basic transaction is the same, Inara is very different from a streetwalker.

But so long as we're going here, I do think she cares about people, in general, and likes to relieve suffering, in general. Personality wise, she is not like someone who is only interested in money or pleasure, I think she's naturally helpful and friendly, and

PLATONIST

Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:51 PM (P)

Good read, Byte, very well thought out, especially the part about Mal and Nandi, you nailed it, and thanks for getting all the Inara Secret links organized in one place, even if they tear a piece of my heart away, every time I view.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:04 PM (P)

Well, watch out. If I seem sharp it's only 'cause I'm kind of running with scissors here. I'm liable to trip up at some point.

Also interested in counterpoints/arguments. It's good to have a different cross section of opinions here than usual, most of the time when we're talking about Inara it's you and me and other Inara fans. Even if maybe it doesn't show Inara in as good a light, it's nice to get other perspectives. Especially to understand the character (and to better write the character, on my part).

PIZMOBEACH

Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:03 PM (P)

Good stuff Byte - I like your take on the classes conflict in particular, that it's more Mal than Inara.

And now I have a great reason to go watch HoG!

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

TWO

Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:40 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...And Two pointed out this problem, but Inara offering actual love for money is dangerous.

Actually, I don't really like the friendship idea, because that feels very manipulative and unethical to me. I don't think Inara MAKES people feel ANYTHING, I think people feel that on their own.

Why does Inara have to offer anything other than sex, beauty, grace, and comfort? Why does she have to be anything different to be a high class whore, or even set apart from whores in general? I think we can all agree that maybe while the basic transaction is the same, Inara is very different from a streetwalker.

But so long as we're going here, I do think she cares about people, in general, and likes to relieve suffering, in general. Personality wise, she is not like someone who is only interested in money or pleasure, I think she's naturally helpful and friendly, and she's just getting paid for it. I don't know why that requires any specifically deep meaningful connection. Does a doctor have to be a friend or lover to their patients to treat them? Does a psychiatrist?

Do doctors and shrinks need to be warm and caring? Yes, they do... on TV. There are the cold technocrats of medicine that nobody likes (respect, maybe) and the warmhearted ones that everyone loves, even when they incompetently kill a patient on TV. But they really feel bad when their patients die! If you want to work in the imaginary world of Companionship, you got to be warmhearted. Cold commercial sex gets no respect on Earth. The Firefly Universe is no different.

We haven't solved the mystery of why Companionship is respected while prostitution is not. The question in my mind is: Will the opposite of cold commercial sex be respected and admired? I think the answer is YES and that gives Companions high status. Others think NO and that gives Companions low status.

We could put it to a vote. Maybe run a survey. If you vote NO then stay far, far away from Companions. They are just whores with pretensions of superiority. You can get the same service cheaper from girls in front of No-Tell Hotel. Those girls aren't judgmental and they know you only as John. Inara actually knows who you are and you know who she is. And she likes you, anyway, faults and all, because she picked you, knowing who you are. She did her research. She spoke to other Companions about you. She read your psych profile. She remembers you.

I bet Inara would be horrified by 21st century dating where people hookup with people they know little about. It would seem bizarre to her.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:01 AM (P)

...I think your survey is a little bit loaded...

Okay, there's some ways I agree with you, but I think it's going too far to say Inara, and by extension other companions are looking for friendship. She clearly didn't know some of her clients very well, and some clients earn themselves a black mark on the guild registry.

And I don't really think the service she's OFFERING is friendship. Maybe for repeat clients and people who continue their subscriptions could get to know her better, but I have trouble believing that Inara would compromise her "undefinable allure" to let herself be very well known to anyone. It also runs counter to the service I think she IS offering: someone who will listen, a shoulder to cry on, well meaning advice, comfort, massage, and obviously sex. There's certain advantages to remaining an unknown and also unattached; it allows you to be more objective about the problems you might be helping someone with, and someone might tell you things they wouldn't tell someone closer to them. Call it cold, but I see it as distant benevolence.

ALIASSE

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...the service I think she IS offering: someone who will listen, a shoulder to cry on, well meaning advice, comfort, massage, and obviously sex.

I agree that this is how Companioning is presented mostly through the character of Inara. For me, 'sex' fits as well into this list as well as 'chocolate' does into one comprising 'oatmeal, gravel, chalkdust, unsweetened muesli'. The others are fairly safe, emotionally; sex isn't. And this is what I find, if not cringe-worthy, then most hard to square about 'Companion' - two sets of things (with sex on its own in one of the sets) that can not work if presented as part of the same package.

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:32 AM (P)

Ah, and that's the thing, isn't it? Inara clearly has some clients that do attach emotionally with her, and possibly because of the sex being seen as something emotional and intimate by the same clients.

But my thinking is, in the Core, that same feeling might not be attached, or people might not take it as seriously. It's like, look at today, and how many people in urban areas have sex just to have sex. Project that into the future, and that might give a commentary on how much importance people attach to sex in the future.

If you think of the Alliance as a Brave New World Corporatocracy kind of thing, this fits even better. Brave New World encouraged citizens to have sex with numerous partners and to not find much meaning in it because it made the citizens more complacent and encouraged economic consumption for social reasons.

Maybe the problem with Inara is that she has some kind of core world "sex isn't very important, it's just for fun" mindset, coupled with religious guild teachings about sacred marriage and goddess worship. It's a contradiction, but maybe one she's never had any reason to question. So to her, maybe it's not the sex that's important, maybe for Inara, sex DOES fit into a list of more vanilla comfort activities. For Inara, maybe it's the RITUALS associated with the sex that's important, rituals that come from being a companion.

TWO

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:38 AM (P)

New York Governor Spitzer, who resigned because he hired expensive call girls, wasn't recognized by most of the women. Who's he? they said. Some big shot on Wall Street or something. They didn't know him but still... All the escort service knew about Client 9, the Gov, was his credit card number and his preferences. And these women were at the top of the field, the best. This bunch in tight clothes and high heels were nothing like Companions. They deserve to be arrested for not knowing who Spitzer was. I understand why call girls are disrespected. They just don't give damn about anything important beyond themselves.

Again, there has got to be gigantic differences between call girls and Companions. Companions would not act this way. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/10/emperors-club-all-about-e_n_9
0768.html

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 19, 2010 12:54 AM (P)

That's a little rough. They deserve to be arrested? So, should someone be arrested for not knowing who Thomas Reid is? Ignorance is not a reason for arrest, most people don't pay attention to politics. And what if you don't have a good memory for faces?

But anyway, you're making the point that Inara would remember her clients. Sure. She's an educated woman, ignorance and her don't even belong in the same sentence together. But that doesn't mean she's friends with them. They're acquaintances, business associates.

TWO

Friday, February 19, 2010 1:17 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
That's a little rough. They deserve to be arrested? So, should someone be arrested for not knowing who Thomas Reid is? Ignorance is not a reason for arrest, most people don't pay attention to politics. And what if you don't have a good memory for faces?

But anyway, you're making the point that Inara would remember her clients. Sure. She's an educated woman, ignorance and her don't even belong in the same sentence together. But that doesn't mean she's friends with them. They're acquaintances, business associates.

If the Alliance elite wanted great anonymous sex with someone who's a hopeless ignoramus like those call girls of Governor Spitzer, they could buy a used robot from the estate of Mr. Universe. It can do what women can not attempt. And it has a reservoir that can be filled with all the healthy pheromones necessary for a completely natural and wholesome experience. What can a Companion offer that a robot can not do better?

Face recognition software is available for the discerning Alliance elite who want a more personalized experience. For Christians, it is only a venial sin, not a mortal sin, to use a sexbot, which is good to know. Again, how can a Companion compete with that?

Only problem I see is that a top-of-the-line sexbot will cost a million to own. Or lease it for 20,000 per month. You do have to keep it's battery charged. But you don't have to respect it.

Companions will become a historical curiosity, much like chimney-sweeps, when everyone on the social register buys a sexbot.

I'm only kidding. There's more to Inara than sex. Time for everyone to post their answers! Does the future need Companions?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 19, 2010 1:30 AM (P)

Actually, I'm pretty sure all the functions of the sex bots are why anyone who owns one earns an automatic black mark in the guild registry. At least, that's according to the RPG manual. It's pretty hilarious, the ladies clearly feel like their turf is being intruded upon.

Besides, I dunno about you, but the thought of it kinda squicks me out. Not the lack of connection, but just that it's not human. What if there's, like, GEARS in there? Euuuugh.

It's also bizarre for me that the moment we can make robots that realistically approximate people, the immediate question everyone seems to jump to is "can we have sex with it?" I mean, why even GO there?

TWO

Friday, February 19, 2010 2:00 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Actually, I'm pretty sure all the functions of the sex bots are why anyone who owns one earns an automatic black mark in the guild registry. At least, that's according to the RPG manual. It's pretty hilarious, the ladies clearly feel like their turf is being intruded upon.

Besides, I dunno about you, but the thought of it kinda squicks me out. Not the lack of connection, but just that it's not human. What if there's, like, GEARS in there? Euuuugh.

It's also bizarre for me that the moment we can make robots that realistically approximate people, the immediate question everyone seems to jump to is "can we have sex with it?" I mean, why even GO there?

Makes me concerned about Joss Whedon. Why sexbots in your movie? Why Mr Universe marrying a machine? People were not recommending the movie to friends because that was creepy. And Joss reminds us how creepy by putting the robot's picture on the Mr Universe's memorial stone at the end of the movie.

A point I made before: call girls don't want to feel anything about clients. No future with the client. It's inhuman, a girl impersonating a robot that wants nothing to do with the client unless the client is paying - zero friendship, all business. I guess the call girl could fraudulently pretend to be a girlfriend so that the client will call again. That's sleazy business.

If Inara wants to be a Companion, she has to be more human than any 21st century call girl. She makes connections with her clients, does things more meaningful than sex because if it is only about sex, the robots (and whores) win every time.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Friday, February 19, 2010 3:07 AM (P)

Well, not necessarily. According to the RP handbook, there's no such thing as AI. The sexbots are good at their primary function, but can't say more than a few dozen phrases, they need a constant powersupply so can't move beyond what their power cord allows, and pampering... probably not.

I still think there might be something to this ritual thing. Inara makes a big deal out of it: maybe that's more what people go to her for, like the Geisha (who doesn't have sex) with her tea ceremony. Maybe because of some kind of devaluing of sex in Core culture.

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