School used laptop webcams to spy on kids at home
POSTED BY: piratenews
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 09:49
VIEWED: 9668
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School Used Student Laptop Webcams to Spy on Them at School and Home
According to the filings in Blake J Robbins v Lower Merion School District (PA) et al, the laptops issued to high-school students in the well-heeled Philly suburb have webcams that can be covertly activated by the schools' administrators, who have used this facility to spy on students and even their families. The issue came to light when the Robbins's child was disciplined for "improper behavior in his home" and the Vice Principal used a photo taken by the webcam as evidence. The suit is a class action, brought on behalf of all students issued with these machines.
If true, these allegations are about as creepy as they come. I don't know about you, but I often have the laptop in the room while I'm getting dressed, having private discussions with my family, and so on. The idea that a school district would not only spy on its students' clickstreams and emails (bad enough), but also use these machines as AV bugs is purely horrifying.
Schools are in an absolute panic about kids divulging too much online, worried about pedos and marketers and embarrassing photos that will haunt you when you run for office or apply for a job in 10 years. They tell kids to treat their personal details as though they were precious.
But when schools take that personal information, indiscriminately invading privacy (and, of course, punishing students who use proxies and other privacy tools to avoid official surveillance), they send a much more powerful message: your privacy is worthless and you shouldn't try to protect it.
Robbins v. Lower Merion School District
http://craphound.com/robbins17.pdf
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/17/school-used-student.html
http://cryptogon.com/?p=13851
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Has it never occurred to anyone to put a piece of electrical tape over the damn camera?
Not that that makes it okay for anyone to be spying on you this way, but it might help a bit.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Has it never occurred to anyone to put a piece of electrical tape over the damn camera?
Not that that makes it okay for anyone to be spying on you this way, but it might help a bit.
According to the lawsuit, the kids are also punished for simply doing "privacy tricks" like that, or using proxy servers like Proxify.com.
It's 1984 all over again.
When I was a kid, we only had eyeballs to worry about. And guns in school were never a problem. I know, because every kid in my school was required to carry a military assault rifle in class.
But at least the pedophiles can now watch the kids undress in the comfort of their own homes. That's progress!
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Get a warrant and seize the office and home computers of the administrators responsible, and I will *GUARANTEE* you that you'll make at least one bust over it, that's a damned common problem with this bullshit no one wants to admit, even if PN does get excessive about it.
My nieces school hadda quietly (and from what I hear, only temporarily) remove the cameras from the girls bathrooms, and one administrator, for similar reasons after the sumbitch got caught yankin it behind his desk, grrrr.
I take after my mother that way, you mess with one of MY kids (even if they ain't biologically "mine") and you're obviously in the wrong, it don't matter how important you think you are, fuck the lawsuit, it's time for some wall-to-wall counselling!
I shall forever treasure the memory of first discovering that, some time in middle school where an assistant administrator decided to "adjust my attitude" just prior to a parent teacher conference, since he made some nasty commentary about my mother (who worked 14 hour days, plus an hour plus commute!) being late, and I called him up short on it...
His "attitude adjustment" involved him lifting me off the ground by my collar and screaming profanity and abuse in my face, with a side order of race-baiting.
My mother, hearing this from the door of the office lobby, took that door open with a bang, damned near off the hinges, and one second later the loudest sound in that room was the snap-click of the eight inch switchblade in her hand being deployed.
(You have NO IDEA how bad the knowledge she even HAD something like that, much less *obviously* knew damned well how to use it, freaked me out.)
Whatever she said to him, I missed cause I was so utterly, totally shocked by the whole concept of my *mother* storming in like an angry valkyrie, ready and willing to cut this guy into bait - I was more scared of her maybe DOIN that, than I ever was of him - he knew the rules, he knew you did not lay hands on me, EVER, and he broke em...
Anyways, he quit over that, it wasn't JUST that, but it was kinda the last straw, since he was on the verge of bein fired anyways, so I figure he had some encouragement.
None of em at THAT school ever tried such bullshit again, and as for me, it took well over a month to stop going into nervous twitches every time she reached in her purse for something...
And more like THREE before I dared mouth off to her about anything.
It wouldn't have wigged me out so if I didn't know her as one of the most strait-laced, calm, unflappable people I'd ever met, I mean, she dealt with *me*, yanno ?
Anyhows, I guess the apple didn't fall *that* far from the tree, when it comes to it, cause someone pulled a stunt like this one on one of "my" kids...
I'd be playin cubicle-divider dominos with the sumbitch, and quick like.
(Which wouldn't wig "my" kids out so much as completely embarrass them with my "barbarity" - something they're very well aware of and tend to lecture ME about.. *eyeroll* )
-F
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Quote:
Has it never occurred to anyone to put a piece of electrical tape over the damn camera?
Not that that makes it okay for anyone to be spying on you this way, but it might help a bit.
It certainly never occurred to anyone at the SCHOOL, the ones who handed out these laptops in the first place.
Would THAT be too much to expect from those who are in charge of teaching the children?
Director: Bureau of Bigfoot Affairs
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School Spycams Case Explodes As Feds Initiate Probe
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/FBI-Investigates-Webcam-Spy-Allegati
ons-Against-School-451724/
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/20/laptop.suit/index.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/school-spycams-case-explodes-as-feds-initi
ate-probe.html
While the school district denies it ever used the tracking software for anything other than looking for stolen computers, it seems other schools across the country are actively using the same or similar technology to monitor students.
The following clip is from PBS FRONTLINE: Digital Nation: Life on the Virtual Frontier, broadcast earlier this month. The clip is from segment 4 of the show titled Teaching with Technology.
It effectively demonstrates the technology that has caused uproar in the Lower Merion case.
The Assistant Principal of the featured high school demonstrates how he effectively spies on students by remotely accessing cameras in their laptops. He monitors their activity and even takes pictures of them, much to his own amusement:
The entire show PBS show can be found here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/view/
Quote:
Tennessee school adminstrators sued for videotaping naked girls in locker room
In 2002, the Overton County (Tenn.) School Board approved a plan to install video surveillance equipment throughout Livingston Middle School (LMS). The school board ordered the director of schools, William Needham, to oversee the project. Needham, in turn, assigned the job to LMS principal Melinda Beaty, who delegated the job to assistant principal Robert Jolley.
In July 2002, Jolley had cameras installed throughout the school in areas facing exterior doors, in hallways leading to exterior doors, and in the boys' and girls' locker rooms. The images captured by the cameras were transmitted to a computer in Jolley's office, and displayed and stored on the computer's hard drive. In September 2002, Jolley discovered that the locker room cameras were videotaping areas in which students routinely dressed for athletic activities and immediately notified Beaty of the situation. No action, however, was taken to remove the cameras until January 2003.
When the videotaping was discovered, a group of parents filed suit under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 against the school board, Needham, Beaty and Jolley. In their suit, the parents alleged that school officials violated the students' constitutional right to privacy by installing and operating video surveillance equipment in the boys' and girls' locker rooms and by viewing and retaining the recorded images.
School officials moved for summary judgment on the grounds of qualified immunity, under which public officials are entitled to be dismissed from a lawsuit if they can show that they did not violate any federal statutory or constitutional rights that were "clearly established" at the time of the alleged misconduct. The public policy behind qualified immunity is that if government officials were not sometimes given a pass for violating a citizen's constitutional rights, officials would be undesirably inhibited in exercising their duties for fear of personal liability if they made a mistake that injured someone.
In determining whether school officials were entitled to qualified immunity, the Sixth Circuit Court started by reviewing whether the students' Fourth Amendment guarantee against unreasonable searches encompassed the right not to be videotaped while dressing and undressing in school locker rooms. In ruling that such a right was protected, the court held that a search is justified only when there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that it will garner evidence that a student has violated or is violating the law or school rules, or is in imminent danger of injury on school premises.
Since the stated purpose of setting up video surveillance equipment throughout LMS was for the sake of improving security, the court ruled that the installation of cameras throughout the school in are
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
It's 1984 all over again.
If only...
Ronald Reagan, 49 States, 525 electoral votes.
Walterrack Mondalebama, 1 State (by 3700 votes) + DC, 10 electoral votes.
Desmund Tutu got the Nobel Peace Prize for his "role as a unifying leader figure in the campaign to resolve the problem of apartheid in South Africa."
USS Alabama, Ohio Class Balistic Missile Submarine was launched carrying 24 SLBM nuclear missiles and capable of delivering more firepower in one strike the ever delivered in the entire history of war...not to mention was the setting for the movie Crimson Tide.
Born, Scarlett Johansson and Lebron James.
23rd Olympiad in LA. Carl Lewis. Mary Lou Retton. Michael Jordan led an 'future Dream Team' to gold.
"Where's the beef?"
Hulk Hogan defeats the Iron Sheik to win his first WWF title.
TV: Night Court, Airwolf, Punky Brewster (PN's favorite show, he likes old men and little girls), Cosby Show, V, Macintosh computers...
Raiders win Super Bowl. Tiger take the Series.
Not to mention Marc Garneau, the first Cannuck in orbit.
Good year.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
According to the lawsuit, the kids are also punished for simply doing "privacy tricks" like that, or using proxy servers like Proxify.com.
Which is generally spelled out in the agreement they sign to use the computers. Boo-effin-hoo.
Quote:
When I was a kid....
The world changes, wear a cup.
Quote:
But at least the pedophiles can now watch the kids undress in the comfort of their own homes. That's progress!
And back to your regularly scheduled PN idiocy....
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
According to the lawsuit, the kids are also punished for simply doing "privacy tricks" like that, or using proxy servers like Proxify.com.
Which is generally spelled out in the agreement they sign to use the computers. Boo-effin-hoo.
Kids are below the age of consent to contracts. Contract Law 101.
Same for statutory rape, which teachers are convicted of everyday.
It's impossible to contract away your constitutionally guaranteed rights, since the constitutions are contracts to forbid govt have having that authority. Constitutional Law 101.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
It's 1984 all over again.
If only...
Ronald Reagan, 49 States, 525 electoral votes.
Walterrack Mondalebama, 1 State (by 3700 votes) + DC, 10 electoral votes.
Desmund Tutu got the Nobel Peace Prize for his "role as a unifying leader figure in the campaign to resolve the problem of apartheid in South Africa."
In 1980 Reagan/Bush won by treason in Iran-Contra, by paying Iran to raid the US embassy, kidnap the hostages, and refuse to release them until the exact minute Reagan/Bush were inaugurated, plus Lt Col Oliver North sabotaged President Carter's military rescue team, so they all crashed and burned in a desert sand storm. Then Bush's cousin John Hinkley Jr (allegedly) shot Reagan, making Bush Sr president 8 years early.
South Africa is now a bankrupt Communist nation of anarchy, slavery and genocide, ruled by the Kosher Nostra and its blood diamond cartel.
VP Mondale was paid to lose as controlled opposition, and was no competition to the CIA's coups d'etat in USA. Or he could have arrested Reagan/Bush when Carter was still president, or filed felony charges during the Iran-Contra investigation. Oh that's right, dozens of Reagan/Bush White House staff were found guilty of felonies during Iran Contra. Bush Sr pardoned all of them (who weren't already assassinated), and was promoted to Knight of the British Empire by his cousin the German Queen of England.
Quote:
The UK agency in charge of IT in UK schools has insisted there is no chance of the government's free laptops program exposing the bedroom activities of British students.
The calming words for British parents comes after a US school district was sued for allegedly spying on a student in his bedroom via the webcam on his school supplied laptop.
The proud boast of Lower Merrion School District in Philadelphia is that it gives every one of their 1,800 high-schoolers laptop computers, to "ensure that all students have 24/7 access to school-based resources."
The catch – which isn’t even mentioned in the small print – is that whilst pupils are watching their laptops, their school may be watching them. This rather sinister twist to the tale came to light when the parents of student Blake Robbins were told by an official of Harriton High School last November that their son had been involved in "improper behavior in his home."
There are no further details of what this improper behaviour might constitute – and readers must draw their own conclusions as to the sort of behaviour a teenage school student might indulge in, if left alone in his bedroom with a PC.
However, what startled and then outraged Blake’s parents was the evidence provided: a photo of their son engaged in the "improper behaviour" cited, taken not on any friend’s camera – but by the webcam on the free school laptop.
Subsequent investigation revealed that this webcam could be – and in this case, was – activated remotely by persons working for the school.
According to the Robbins family, an assistant principal at Harriton High, Lindy Matsko, confirmed that the school district "in fact has the ability to remotely activate the Webcam contained in a student's personal laptop computer issued by the school district at any time it chose, and to view and capture whatever images were in front of the Webcam."
The Robbins family have reacted by talking to their lawyers – and this week they issued suit (pdf) against the school district, its board of governors, and Christopher McGinley, the Superintendent of the district.
They allege a veritable shopping list of wrongdoing, including not only breaches of the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution, but also the Electronic Communication Privacy Act, the Computer Fraud Abuse Act, the Stored Communications Act, s1983 of the Civil Rights Act, the Pennsylvania Wiretapping and Electronic Surveillance Act, as well as Pennsylvania common law.
The school district has today responded robustly, claiming that the laptops
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Which is generally spelled out in the agreement they sign to use the computers. Boo-effin-hoo.
An agreement under duress which is legally invalid for the same reason that allows shitheels to get away with these kind of abuses - cause they're not legally adults, nor are they, or anyone else, allowed to sign away their human rights.
And I do mean under duress - since by requiring the machine it means refusal will negatively impact their education, nor were parents allowed to purchase for their children an identical machine without that Lanrev bullshit, WHICH, might I add, we have several tech specialists distributing how-to-defeat manuals all around the area schools in response.
(along with a guide to privacy rights)
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/02/macbook-use-was-mandatory-at-laptop-
spying-school/
As for the student in question, consider the DEGREE of spying it'd take to come up with something this asinine.
http://reason.com/blog/2010/02/20/lower-pervian-school-district
I didn't believe that "only in case of theft" bullshit when they shovelled it, and I GUARANTEE you that "only 42 times" story is bullshit too.
And you should know by now when I call bullshit on a story like this, someone is gonna get crucified about it, especially in PA where youth rights advocates have not forgotten ANOTHER incident, nor the school systems indirect involvement in making sure their dissenters were sent to these particular judges.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/us/13judge.html
PN might be bughouse nuts, but he's actually got a serious, legitimate point about the matter, in between the crazy, and you think about it, is he really a lot crazier than the dickheads who come up with shit like this thinking it's a good idea ?
I want y'all to remember one thing, good and solid.
These kids, who our society treats this way, have very few places they can turn since their parents often involved, and many of the places they can turn for "help", are predatory, hellcamps, psychologists with hooks into big pharma, legal systems that will attack THEM for not going with the flow, predators, pushers....
And so when they find a supportive voice, a brick wall to put their backs against, people who understand their problems and are completely willing to feed them tools and resources...
Why kind of loyalty do you think that buys ?
Remember that some day these kids, some of em, enough of em, they're gonna be in charge.
And some of them hold a grudge.
-Frem
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Right on, Frem. Preach on, brother.
And yes, I *do* keep a piece of electrical tape over the mic and camera on my MacBook, precisely because I *HAVE* seen it turn on when there was no reason for it to be on, and it doesn't have any control panel that I can find that allows me to turn it OFF. That bugs me.
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
In 1980 Reagan/Bush won by treason in Iran-Contra, by paying Iran to raid the US embassy, kidnap the hostages, and refuse to release them until the exact minute Reagan/Bush were inaugurated, plus Lt Col Oliver North sabotaged President Carter's military rescue team, so they all crashed and burned in a desert sand storm. Then Bush's cousin John Hinkley Jr (allegedly) shot Reagan, making Bush Sr president 8 years early.
Ollie was Major Oliver North, Operations Officer for the 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment as part of the 2nd Marine Division based in Camp Lejune, North Carolina during Iran Hostage crisis. His unit was not part of the Army Special Forces team deployed to Iran. He was not assigned to the National Security Council until after he attended the Naval War College in 1981.
Other then that everything you said is pure bullshit crazytalk.
Next you'll be telling us how George Bush flew in the back of an SR-71 to Tehran in October of 1980 to negotiate the release of the hostages for after the election. That was part of the Democrat's 'allegations are so serious that it must be investigated despite the complete lack of evidence" theory they used for hearings on this topic.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Why, "Hero", that sounds almost as preposterous as the "Obama is a socialist" crazytalk your boys have been throwing around at CPAC and elsewhere!
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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What's funniest of all is PN's obsession with sex; doesn't putting those up on the internet equal the employees "passing them around"?
Oh, and in case anyone's wondering, Sauron was a FICTIONAL character.
The rest is typical PN idiocy...sore finger scrolling...
"And back to your regularly scheduled PN idiocy...."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why, "Hero", that sounds almost as preposterous as the "Obama is a socialist" crazytalk your boys have been throwing around at CPAC and elsewhere!
Obama is not a socialist...his policies are socialist, but he is merely a liberal intellectual elitist who is proving to be politically and professionally out of his depth.
Thats why so little real leadership and policy direction has come out of the White House in the last year. He takes months to make some decisions, others he makes far too quickly and in both cases his decisions are bad ones forcing course corrections, spin, and backstepping while all along denying any negative results or failed expectations.
But I think Beck reads too much conspiracy into incompetence and bad leadership.
I think Obama has good intentions and positive goals and does not understand how to implement policy or why people are upset with him. This leads to the reactionary and defensive thinking demonstrated time and again by the White House.
This is a sharp contrast to the Bush administration that took decisive action and lead the nations policy, both foriegn and domestic from a frontline position. While not always the correct action or successful and too often mired in a 'stay the course' mentality...it had the advantage of consistant policy and leading from the front thinking that people could always rely on for a stability that is lacking in the present administration (to his credit Clinton was the same way, although his tendency was to follow the polls, but at least he could stay out front of the issues). While I would encourage Obama to take a more central leadership role, such as he did this week by releasing his own health care plan (although like the other two Democrat plans it is a national disaster in the making), he should have released his own plan months ago instead of allowing the Congress to take the lead. Same is true of the Stimulas plan, which was a Pelosi boondoggle. He also should have buckled down and made a decision on Afganistan in a week or two rather then months later.
I think regardless of whether these things had met immediate success, people would have respected the leadership and his poll numbers would have been slower coming down. They elected Obama to lead, not to wallow...er...follow.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Which is generally spelled out in the agreement they sign to use the computers. Boo-effin-hoo.
An agreement under duress which is legally invalid for the same reason that allows shitheels to get away with these kind of abuses - cause they're not legally adults, nor are they, or anyone else, allowed to sign away their human rights.
No shit sherlock - that's why the parents sign the forms. The parents then have an obligation to.... parent! If they don't and the kids break the rules associated with the FREE COMPUTER - then there are consequences.
They're getting a free computer out of it. Again, boo-fuckin-hoo.
Should they be watched without cause - no. But that doesn't mean they should get free reign to do whatever they like with the equipment.
And your GUARANTEE (about an assumption, no less) means absolutely didly. Less than, really. It's just paranoid raving.... which granted, is your forte.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Kids are below the age of consent to contracts. Contract Law 101.
But their parents are not, so your point is moot.
I should have known I would have to spell out such a simple concept.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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Ok, you wanna be a dick, fine.
Firstoff, you *can not* sign away a Constitutional Right, did you happen to forget that little bit about "Supreme Law of the Land" ?
Quote:
Electronic Frontier Foundation Chief Council Kevin Bankston:"private schools or employers can ask you to sign away your right to privacy, but not a government entity like a public school. “To condition one’s receipt of government benefits on your surrendering a constitutional right is itself unconstitutional.”
Secondly, there's no "agreement" about it - you either take the deal, or your kid gets failed in the classes requiring the machine, that's not exactly a free-will agreement, that's a direct and extortive order cloaked in the illusion of an agreement.
I remember an elementary school that Vicky's kids went to playing games like that over an intended uniform policy which had more to do with kickbacks from the manufacture and distributor than any real necessity - the bastards sent a survey with two choices on it.
( ) Yes, I want school uniforms.
( ) No, I do not want school uniforms at this time.
EXACTLY that kind of scammery, which schools engage in on a regular basis - cause had that been allowed to pass unchallenged, no matter WHAT the parents responded, the school could, and would, turn around and say a "Majority of parents support the idea" (without saying "but not now") - as it went, some of parents took *issue* with trying to game them that way and had the administrator called on the carpet, but just because they PRETEND it's a choice doesn't mean it is.
And third, the machine is NOT free, it's coming out of the tax dollars of the very people who's children are using it, so essentially THEY paid for it, that's as much a sham as getting a "FREE" MP3 player (worth $49.99) for a "Registration Fee" of $99.99 - it's bullshit.
Also bullshit is the "only to track those which were reported lost or stolen" line of crap, which is OBVIOUSLY a lie because the Laptop assigned to Blake Robbins was not, and never had been, reported lost or stolen, therefore the excuse itself falls flat - beyond which, the fact that they chose to actively attempt to discipline Robbins for what they percieved as improper behavior *IN HIS OWN HOME* brings their whole motive fully into question.
And the record shows that the school superintendent used the schools public address system to make false and disparaging statements regarding the case and Robbins family, compounding the abuse of power and percieved authority even when it was proven beyond doubt that Robbins had done nothing wrong and his family had appropriate cause to be irate about the situation.
Despite the school officials lying through their teeth, getting caught doing so, and continuing this behavior, it took a federal judge (U.S. District Court Judge Jan DuBois) to issue a court order to forestall continuation of this behavior, not only the spying, but also misusing school resources and perceived authority to propagandize to students who constitute a captive audience - and you're going to sit here and tell me that's not over the top, when there is a distinct possibility of CRIMINAL charges in this matter ?
And frankly, I am sick of enablers like you trying to justify this kind of behavior cause it inevitably results in a hostile society with everyone at each others throats, bit by bit, primarily because useful idiots like you gobble up the shoveljob with a big grin (prolly why they call it a shit-eating grin) and flame away at anyone who actually has the nerve to call down logic, reason and those pesky facts upon the snowjob.
As for my Guarantees, what YOU make of em is up to you, but the evidence is against your proposition there cause when I throw my word behind something it's a damned solid bet, as many issues we've discussed in RWED have proven out, despite all the pissing and whining from scumbag jackboot lickers like you.
Now either come up with a valid point beyond sycophantic boot slobbering of perceived authority no matter how illegitimat
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Quote:
But that doesn't mean they should get free reign to do whatever they like with the equipment.
I'd say that goes for the school board, as well.
How's about this idea, Story:
We set up webcams to spy on everyone who has access to the "spycam" feeds off these laptop computers. And anyone caught spying on kids without cause (and a damn warrant, while we're at it), gets to go look for a new job. And if they're caught watching kids undressing or anything like that, they get to register as a sex offender on their way out the door.
Sound fair?
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Why, "Hero", that sounds almost as preposterous as the "Obama is a socialist" crazytalk your boys have been throwing around at CPAC and elsewhere!
Obama is not a socialist...his policies are socialist, but he is merely a liberal intellectual elitist who is proving to be politically and professionally out of his depth.
That's so cute - Hitler wasn't evil; just his policies were. And I guess you'd label anyone an elitist who is smarter than you, which would make an astonishing number of people "elitist" in your book.
Quote:
Thats why so little real leadership and policy direction has come out of the White House in the last year. He takes months to make some decisions, others he makes far too quickly and in both cases his decisions are bad ones forcing course corrections, spin, and backstepping while all along denying any negative results or failed expectations.
But I think Beck reads too much conspiracy into incompetence and bad leadership.
I think you read too much incompetence into leadership you don't happen to agree with.
Quote:
I think Obama has good intentions and positive goals and does not understand how to implement policy or why people are upset with him. This leads to the reactionary and defensive thinking demonstrated time and again by the White House.
This is a sharp contrast to the Bush administration that took decisive action and lead the nations policy, both foriegn and domestic from a frontline position. While not always the correct action or successful and too often mired in a 'stay the course' mentality...it had the advantage of consistant policy and leading from the front thinking that people could always rely on for a stability that is lacking in the present administration (to his credit Clinton was the same way, although his tendency was to follow the polls, but at least he could stay out front of the issues). While I would encourage Obama to take a more central leadership role, such as he did this week by releasing his own health care plan (although like the other two Democrat plans it is a national disaster in the making), he should have released his own plan months ago instead of allowing the Congress to take the lead. Same is true of the Stimulas plan, which was a Pelosi boondoggle. He also should have buckled down and made a decision on Afganistan in a week or two rather then months later.
How long did Bush take to decide whether to up the troop levels in Afghanistan? A week or two? Or more like seven years, at which time he decided to just punt and make it the next guy's problem?
Quote:
I think regardless of whether these things had met immediate success, people would have respected the leadership and his poll numbers would have been slower coming down. They elected Obama to lead, not to wallow...er...follow.
So you're going on record as saying that you favor bad decisions that result in the deaths of thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of other people, over good decisions that save lives, based purely on which ones make a better show of "leadership"? Wouldn't you call that "leadership theater"?
H
Quote:
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"Hero", I have never respected you. I may have to bring your quote about "intellegence" [sic] back as my signature if you're going to keep Chris's quote as yours. ;)
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Firstoff, you *can not* sign away a Constitutional Right, did you happen to forget that little bit about "Supreme Law of the Land" ?
Actually you can waive your rights, but the waiver must be "knowing" and "voluntary".
Parents can waive the rights of their children.
Children have Constitutional rights...famous line from the Supreme Court "the Consitution does not stop at the schoolhouse gate". However they cannot exercise their rights absent parental consent. For example, a child cannot file a lawsuit, the parent files the suit on the child's behalf (noting for the record that their are limited circumstances that allow others to act 'in loco parentis' usually through an appointed child's advocate or agreement such as a school being authorized to arrange for emergency medical treatment on a field trip when the parent cannot be contacted in a reasonable time all of which go to the idea that a child cannot exercise their Constitutional rights without adult supervision).
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Firstoff, you *can not* sign away a Constitutional Right, did you happen to forget that little bit about "Supreme Law of the Land" ?
Actually you can waive your rights, but the waiver must be "knowing" and "voluntary".
Parents can waive the rights of their children.
Children have Constitutional rights...famous line from the Supreme Court "the Consitution does not stop at the schoolhouse gate". However they cannot exercise their rights absent parental consent. For example, a child cannot file a lawsuit, the parent files the suit on the child's behalf (noting for the record that their are limited circumstances that allow others to act 'in loco parentis' usually through an appointed child's advocate or agreement such as a school being authorized to arrange for emergency medical treatment on a field trip when the parent cannot be contacted in a reasonable time all of which go to the idea that a child cannot exercise their Constitutional rights without adult supervision).
I agree. Therefore all driver licenses are invalid, since 14-year-old to 18-year-old children, not their parents, sign those contracts to waiver their Constitutionally guaranteed right to travel. And adults are extorted at duress at gunpoint by police state death squads to sign driver license contracts, thus their signature is not "voluntary".
Quote:
Electronic Frontier Foundation Chief Council Kevin Bankston:"private schools or employers can ask you to sign away your right to privacy, but not a government entity like a public school. “To condition one’s receipt of government benefits on your surrendering a constitutional right is itself unconstitutional.”
Just like driver licenses for adults, to waive their constitutionally guaranteed right to travel without an internal passport, subject to arrest by police state death squads for all normal driving, as required by the Communist Manifesto.
Quote:
"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon public highways by automobile is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, under Constitutional guarantee."
-II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329
"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime."
-Miller v. US, 230 F 486, 489
"There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights."
-Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946
"Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them."
-Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491
"I’ll burn your house down, set your dog on fire and there won’t be a member of your family left, do you understand me? I won’t hire it done, I will do it myself! Do you understand me?”
-Blount County sheriff James Berrong, United States Court of Appeals, Sixth Circuit, Nuchols v. Berrong, No. 04-5645, July 11, 2005
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/05a0586n-06.pdf
"In Hurricane Katrina's chaotic aftermath, police shot six people – killing two – as they crossed a bridge in search of food. As victims' relatives watched from the courtroom gallery, a retired lieutenant who supervised the department's probe of the shootings pleaded guilty to orchestrating a cover-up to conceal that police gunned down unarmed civilians. Michael Lohman, a 21-year veteran of the force, pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to obstruct justice. Prosecutors said Lohman and other unidentified officers conspired to fabricate witness statements, falsify reports of the incident and plant a gun in an attempt to make it appear the killings were justified. The shootings happened on Sept. 4, 2005, six days after the storm smashed levees and flooded 80 percent of the city. Survivors have said the officers fired at unarmed people who were crossing to get food at a grocery store."
-Huffington Post, Ex-Cop Pleads Guilty
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Quote:
Children have Constitutional rights...famous line from the Supreme Court "the Consitution does not stop at the schoolhouse gate". However they cannot exercise their rights absent parental consent. For example, a child cannot file a lawsuit, the parent files the suit on the child's behalf (noting for the record that their are limited circumstances that allow others to act 'in loco parentis' usually through an appointed child's advocate or agreement such as a school being authorized to arrange for emergency medical treatment on a field trip when the parent cannot be contacted in a reasonable time all of which go to the idea that a child cannot exercise their Constitutional rights without adult supervision).
There's actually probable cause to amend the parental consent stipulation, what with concerns about abuse.
But I suppose that's what hearings for emancipation are about. Still, there really ought to be a way for kids to act without parental consent if there really are rights violations going on and parents are complicit, without necessarily emancipating the kid from the parents. Not only might it protect the parents more, in the event that things lead to an emancipation hearing or if the violators try to drag the parents in, but it also gives kids a way to defend themselves.
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(We're workin on that, Byte.)
Formenting Dissent:
Man, you just can't buy satisfaction like this...
That horrible school my niece goes to sometime in the recent past discovered who her uncle is, prolly due to her telling them in a fit of rage I suspect, and ever since they've treated her with a bit more respect and a lot less bullshit as continuing to do so risks provoking the wrath of her "Faery Godfather" as she puts it.
Now, amusing that it is to see my perception of CCW reinforced that way even if your "weapon" is a purple Firefly...
http://www.fireflymobile.com/
I've generally not meddled, for which I am sure they're quite thankful since my last bit of meddling was the memorable student government/dress code disaster and that ain't by no means been forgotten.
I *DO* have issues with their surveillence though, and they were apparently plotting a similar laptop program, no doubt with lanrev or something similar.
Well, her homeroom has eighteen kids in it, and this particular homeroom teacher has a thing against candy with the usual "unless you brought enough for everybody" line of tripe.
So, while digging through the mess in this thread, I got a wild hair and shipped her nineteen boxes of Mike & Ike candy...
(heh heh heh)
So when the homeroom teacher calls her on munching it in class, undaunted, she pulls out the other eighteen boxes, and passes them around - mind you this stupid laptop incident has been the talk of her school for days now.
The teacher takes a look at the box, does a doubletake, and yells THAT IS NOT FUNNY!
The students disagreed, passionately, all but rolling out of their chairs.
And now I have a rather unhappy sounding message from the principal in my voicemail, oh boy, oh joy, accusing me of formenting disrespect for authority, school policy, etc etc...
That's gonna be a fun phone call tomorrow, I think.
Really though, what it amounts to is a shot across the bow in stern warning that such antics won't fly so well, and I wanted them to KNOW it.
But it *was* bloody hilarious, yeah.
-F
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Quote:He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"Hero", I have never respected you. I may have to bring your quote about "intellegence" [sic] back as my signature if you're going to keep Chris's quote as yours. ;)
The laughing Chrisisall
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Cheez-wiz, they're about to throw a hissy over CANDY? And call relatives over not obeying an arbitrary UNOFFICIAL class room rule?
I mean, she met the letter of the law of that stupid request. Are they that bureaucratic, that CONTROLLING that they would obsess over the spirit of the law in the TINIEST of infractions, when the rule is so poorly defined?
What the hell kind of school is this? I'm thankful my group of outsiders and misfits back in the day never had to put up with that kind of crap. Well, except one time I got in trouble for "reciting the national anthem wrong." I managed to twist my mockery of the monotone brainwashing into some sort of "patriotic" excuse, though, so I got out of it.
Oh yeah, and then the time we wanted to skip the "optional" vote for your student body council assembly to go get bagels, because it's a bunch of bullshit. And found that the school had blocked off all the gates to exit the grounds and had police cars patrolling the area. So we called the fire department, on account of the school having created a potential fire hazard, and got THEM all in trouble, hahahahaha. SUCKERS.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
(We're workin on that, Byte.)
Formenting Dissent:
Man, you just can't buy satisfaction like this...
That horrible school my niece goes to sometime in the recent past discovered who her uncle is, prolly due to her telling them in a fit of rage I suspect, and ever since they've treated her with a bit more respect and a lot less bullshit as continuing to do so risks provoking the wrath of her "Faery Godfather" as she puts it.
Now, amusing that it is to see my perception of CCW reinforced that way even if your "weapon" is a purple Firefly...
http://www.fireflymobile.com/
I've generally not meddled, for which I am sure they're quite thankful since my last bit of meddling was the memorable student government/dress code disaster and that ain't by no means been forgotten.
I *DO* have issues with their surveillence though, and they were apparently plotting a similar laptop program, no doubt with lanrev or something similar.
Well, her homeroom has eighteen kids in it, and this particular homeroom teacher has a thing against candy with the usual "unless you brought enough for everybody" line of tripe.
So, while digging through the mess in this thread, I got a wild hair and shipped her nineteen boxes of Mike & Ike candy...
(heh heh heh)
So when the homeroom teacher calls her on munching it in class, undaunted, she pulls out the other eighteen boxes, and passes them around - mind you this stupid laptop incident has been the talk of her school for days now.
The teacher takes a look at the box, does a doubletake, and yells THAT IS NOT FUNNY!
The students disagreed, passionately, all but rolling out of their chairs.
And now I have a rather unhappy sounding message from the principal in my voicemail, oh boy, oh joy, accusing me of formenting disrespect for authority, school policy, etc etc...
That's gonna be a fun phone call tomorrow, I think.
Really though, what it amounts to is a shot across the bow in stern warning that such antics won't fly so well, and I wanted them to KNOW it.
But it *was* bloody hilarious, yeah.
-F
That is just beauty. "Fomenting disrespect for authority." Puh. Leeze. What we need in this country is MORE disrespect for authority. And why on Earth SHOULD any self-respecting kid respect their elders? What the fuck have we done for them, other than saddle them with a lifetime's worth of debt and a fucked-up planet to try to fix?
Respect is a two-way street, and it has to be given to be earned. Respect these kids and treat them as human freaking beings, and they just MIGHT start showing some respect back. Who knows, they might decide we're not all completely worthless and morally bankrupt, too. But I'm not willing to stretch it quite that far.
Shit, I've got half a mind to send her a case of the candies again, just as an added little "Eff YOU" to the school and the teacher. Feel free to mention that in your phone call tomorrow. :)
Mike
Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Cheez-wiz, they're about to throw a hissy over CANDY? And call relatives over not obeying an arbitrary UNOFFICIAL class room rule?
I mean, she met the letter of the law of that stupid request. Are they that bureaucratic, that CONTROLLING that they would obsess over the spirit of the law in the TINIEST of infractions, when the rule is so poorly defined?
Oh yes, they're that bad, always have been.
See, this *IS* the school I staged that pocket revolt on, when the student government cock-blocked their idiotic dress code, and that was twenty some years ago, and STILL not forgotten.
Which is also why they do not have uniforms, mind you.
And here's what really, REALLY scares them about all this...
Those kids involved in that revolt, back then ?
Are in many cases the PARENTS of the kids attending the school now, and so if I were to raise the revolution flag again, they'd be in shit so deep they'd drown, and believe me, they're *well* aware of that fact.
Also, apropros of nothin in particular, the fact that people like you exist is one of the things that gives me hope for the world yet, Byte.
-Frem
(and sends Justin into horrified tremors of panic, or did when I told him I liked you.)
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So what is it that creates an environment like that? Is it the school board? Some bigshot in the local community who's had a large say in policy? A long parade of inept and incompetent administrators who perpetuate a mindset, that teachers are coerced to go along with? Viral infection for previously unexposed people to "total douchebag" syndrome?
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You will find those answers here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisonous_pedagogy
http://nospank.net/dobson1.htm
That's just the quick capsule version for you, since you'll understand the concepts without further explanation.
-F
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Yeah, that was kind of fun.
Bastard called me a terrorist - I pointed out that real terrorism is formenting an atmosphere of fear in order to make people obey you, which was more properly his baliwick than mine, and if fear is the only tool he has then he's an incompetent who oughta be standing in the unemployment line.
Then he tried the lameass excuse that teaching them to mock and disrespect authority was setting them up for criminal behavior and a future in the prison system, so I pointed out hey, have you LOOKED at the place you run, dude, cause yanno it's awfully damn similar, enough that prison would prolly feel downright homey to children you ALREADY treat like hardened criminals, and it's not authority I am teaching them to mock and disrespect, it's YOUR authority, because it is rooted in fear and violence instead of cooperation and respect - you don't give none, you don't GET none.
You goes on with how I "have no right" and shouldn't be holding some petty grudge over something that happened twenty years ago, so I dropped the hammer on him - "I HAVE EVERY RIGHT!" and light his ass up, asked him if we should just let that pesky little spat with the third reich go, since it was all over and done with, and it ain't twenty years ago, it's right NOW cause you're still doing the same exact abusive shit, only NOW you can't just brush me off cause imma kid and maybe there's a LESSON in there about the way your school treats people, oh and might I add, children *ARE* people, shithead, which you seem to have no concept of.
He blows a gasket, then the mask comes off, and he starts going into how lazy, disrepectful, worthless, immoral, untruthful - I mean layin it on, so I asked him if he hated children so bloody much, why'd he take a job in education ?
He hangs up, I call back - made it clear to the secretary he talks to me, or he talks to my lawyer, so he gets back on and cuts right to the chase, finally - "What do you WANT?!"
So I told him, either quit treating those kids like something you scraped off the bottom of your shoe, or find someone to replace you who will, and don't think it's *just* my niece who got me on your case and you can sleaze out of this by being nice to her (and good luck with that, as cynical and suspicious as she is, thanks in great part to YOU!) cause I am tapped into your own surveillence system six ways to sunday and I *will* know, asshole.
Of course, he threatens to have me charged with harrassment and hangs up, but having to delivered my ultimatium successfully, I had no reason to continue talkin to him...
Since that was only half the gameplan anyways.
The other half was my nieces homeroom class (along with, apparently, a few curious others) having sneaked out of lunch and hunkered down on the other side of the very thin wall of his office, listening to every word of it.
How long, ya think, before his verbal rampage about what scum they are makes the rounds of the student grapevine, eh ?
I give it about 2.5 hours.
Oh, did I mention that I bought a throwaway tracphone with 240 minutes on it, and said niece made sure the number has been making the rounds ?
Faery Godfather Hotline, indeed.
Oh, and further updates on the laptop spying thing ?
Again, they're LYING.
Contradictions in L. Merion Web-cam case
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100225_Contradictions_in_
L__Merion_Web-cam_case.html
As explained here...
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1999-The-True-Issues-at-LMSD-And-Els
ewhere.html
And here.
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/20278/Oh_Oh..._New_Allegations_LMSD_:_T
old_You_So_Spying_on_kids.html
It seems they were using a VPN mirror, so it wasn't ONLY the webcam, it was both more invasive and extensive, on top of which, from the explanations I've heard, one of the methods to prevent the kids from detecting or disabling it was an automatic coverup feature that deleted the EVIDENCE of them spying, how... convenient.
I'd give much to hav
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You, sir, are my hero!
Well done, and keep up the good work!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
My being right gives you the freedom to engage in your liberal fantasy.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
You've failed, your Highness. I'll never join you.
The laughing Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
My being right gives you the freedom to engage in your liberal fantasy.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
That's it - I'm changing my signature back.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Me too.
The laughing Chrisisall
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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And more.
The laughing Chrisisall
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions, if you can frakkin' believe it! OOops! Freudian slip!!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
My being right gives you the freedom to engage in your liberal fantasy.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
My being right gives you the freedom to engage in your liberal fantasy.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
Hero, why do you feel the need to be right, to have others acknolodge you to be right
Did someone in your past not treat you well, ignore you, or not acknowlege you ?
You can be a good person without being right
Before you try to get respect here you need to respect yourself
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first.
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Even better.
The laughing Chrisisall
"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPT0R:Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
He only does it to embarrass me in my moment of bi-partisan weakness, I conjure.
Actually I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right.
My being right gives you the freedom to engage in your liberal fantasy.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
Hero, why do you feel the need to be right, to have others acknolodge you to be right
Did someone in your past not treat you well, ignore you, or not acknowlege you ?
You can be a good person without being right
Before you try to get respect here you need to respect yourself
Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first.
0 for 2. Repeat after me:
"ACKNOWLEDGE"
You're worse at this than the real Rappy. That is not meant as a compliment.
By the way, how do you pluralize the word "terrorist"?
(Just checking) :)
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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School used laptop webcams to spy on kids at home
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
School used laptop webcams to spy on kids at home
***************************************************************
Silence is consent.
Touché!
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPT0R:
Hero, why do you feel the need to be right, to have others acknolodge you to be right
Its not a need...I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Okay, either you're just messing with Kwicko and Chris right back, or you're letting their teasing get to you, Hero.
If it's the former, then ya'll have fun, but if it's the later, that's exactly how Kwicko and Chris are going to take it, and it sets yourself up for ridicule.
You're a LAWYER, you know better than anyone it's not right or wrong, it's who can argue their sides better.
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Ooo, can I play too?
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Okay, either you're just messing with Kwicko and Chris right back, or you're letting their teasing get to you, Hero.
Didn't even notice the teasing. Heard a lot of bitching, whining, and crazytalk. No teasing...
Funny thing is I'm not messing with them. They know I'm right but are rarely able to muster the intellectual honosty to admit to themselves that which they know in their hearts to be good and true. Thus whatever anger and frustration they feel is self-inflicted.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Okay, either you're just messing with Kwicko and Chris right back, or you're letting their teasing get to you, Hero.
Didn't even notice the teasing. Heard a lot of bitching, whining, and crazytalk. No teasing...
Funny thing is I'm not messing with them. They know I'm right but are rarely able to muster the intellectual honosty to admit to themselves that which they know in their hearts to be good and true. Thus whatever anger and frustration they feel is self-inflicted.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
The intellectual WHAT?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
"Hero", if you ever want to have an ACTUAL intellectually honest discussion, it will be your very first one here. You say you want to discuss issues, and every time I try to bring up actual issues and nail you down on them, you run away on "vacation" yet again. You and Rappy are one and the same, it would seem; neither of you can even conceptualize the IDEA of admitting that you've ever been wrong, about ANYTHING, and keep breaking your own arms slapping yourselves on the back about your "superior intellect", which you magically can't then seem to summon.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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The tone of that last one sounded snarky to me. Yup, he's playing us, trying to distract us from the issue at hand and getting a good laugh over how easy it is.
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Not distracting me; I felt like the topic had been covered rather well, so when it degenerated, I joined out of boredom. Not much of today's topics to respond to, that's all...
But it's not interesting long enough to keep it up, I'll leave that to Chris and Mike, they seem to get more enjoyment from it.
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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True, Niki - Chris and I *DO* enjoy poking the monkey in his cage now and again.
Plus there's the added benefit - which I know "Hero" doesn't like - that it keeps this thread near the top of the page, and keeps it "active", which is nice, because this is a subject near and dear to Frem's heart, so it's right here handy when he's got more/newer info to share on this story. :)
That it needles "Hero" is just an added bonus.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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T-shirts, get yer T-shirts here...
http://www.zazzle.com/lower_merion_school_district_scandal_parody_tshi
rt-235568003500926676
Of COURSE *that* was coming, we're workin on a better one with a local provider, too.
-F
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The HAL9000 lens is a nice touch.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You say you want to discuss issues, and every time I try to bring up actual issues and nail you down on them, you run away on "vacation" yet again.
Took time off from playing in this sandbox to go put a child molester in jail. Big trials are a lot of work...but they do pay me, so its all good (not to mention the bonus/fringe benefit of putting the child molester in jail, I'd do that for free).
A jury said I was right, kinda like they do almost every time. You guys could learn a lot from them. My suggestion, start a topic, discuss it to your heart's content, then I'll come in and let you know the correct answer and then we can all agree that I'm right and move on without all the animosity...that seems fair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Yup, he's playing us, trying to distract us from the issue at hand and getting a good laugh over how easy it is.
In this case you are mostly correct. I'm playing you, you guys are easy, its a good laugh, and I'm still right and deep down you all still know it.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You say you want to discuss issues, and every time I try to bring up actual issues and nail you down on them, you run away on "vacation" yet again.
Took time off from playing in this sandbox to go put a child molester in jail. Big trials are a lot of work...but they do pay me, so its all good (not to mention the bonus/fringe benefit of putting the child molester in jail, I'd do that for free).
A jury said I was right, kinda like they do almost every time. You guys could learn a lot from them. My suggestion, start a topic, discuss it to your heart's content, then I'll come in and let you know the correct answer and then we can all agree that I'm right and move on without all the animosity...that seems fair.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
So every time you duck out of a conversation, you can now chalk it up to "a big trial"... That's handy. Was Out2Lunch in on your big trial? He seems to have gone AWOL lately, too. ;)
Mostly, "Hero", you're like a hemorrhoid; you're a pain in the ass, sure, but when you're not around, nobody much notices, complains or misses you. And in that, YOU clearly know that *I* am in the right.
By the way, how long did you put Rappy away for?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So every time you duck out of a conversation, you can now chalk it up to "a big trial"... That's handy. Was Out2Lunch in on your big trial? He seems to have gone AWOL lately, too. ;)
Like most people with jobs I work, have paid vacation, and paid sick days. In fact I was away from this site approximately 2.5 weeks. That included a week of trial, a week of vacation (I always take President's Day week off cause the others in the office don't compete for it like they do the major holidays), and I had two sick days from a bad cold.
Normally I can get on from home but my computer needed service and Geek Squad was very slow.
So, paid holiday, paid vacation, paid sick leave, and jailing a bad guy. All perks of my job.
H
"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
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Remember this one? Looks like it's on its way to being settled:Quote:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/TheLaw/wireStory?id=10070533
A suburban Philadelphia family's webcam-spying lawsuit against a high school could be heading for a settlement.
Lawyers for Lower Merion School District and the family of 15-year-old Blake Robbins agreed to a one-month delay in the case while experts determine how many times employees activated cameras on school-issued laptops.
According to an order signed by a judge Wednesday, both parties hope the information will lead to "an expeditious and cost-effective resolution."
Robbins and his parents sued last month, accusing school officials of photographing him in his bedroom. He says an administrator said school officials suspected him of selling drugs because of webcam photos.
The district claims it activated the cameras only to locate missing laptops.
"only to locate missing laptops" 
riiiight!
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Oh it's more twisted than that, see, when the software was "activated", which they NOW claim was because the boy supposedly took the laptop home without paying some kind of hefty "insurance" bribe - and likely untrue, given that the school district has lied about everything else top-to-bottom, and DID accuse him of outright theft, then said it was a mistake, and THEN came up with that insurance fee bullshit story - the software didn't just track the laptop, oh no, it went far deeper than that.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10465117-238.html
Once activated, it would snap a picture every couple of minutes and forward it to a special site set up for the Lower Merion Police Dept, which while supposedly secure - then begs the question of if they were the ONLY ones with access to it, how the administrator and the IT guys they placed on leave wound up with both the images and, according to the administrator, a log of the keystrokes, neh ?
That ALSO implicates the Lower Merion PD as complicit, and opens a whole second can of worms as to what legal liabilities exist there.
Then there's the lies, oh the lies, and the administrator using the PA system to make defamatory statements...
And finally, the software itself - the school had a certain responsibility to be honest about this sorta thing if they were gonna do it, and not only were they NOT honest about it, the software itself was set up to delete the evidence and "cover it's own tracks" - not JUST on the supposedly stolen laptop, but on both that end AND at the server, and yanno I'd really like someone to try explaining THAT in light of the "only X amount of times" comment, what *reason* would they have to delete the evidence of tracking a stolen laptop off their own server unless that wasn't the purpose in the first place ?
And yes, they were using LANRev 4.6 and a VPN setup so the IT folk had more than JUST access to the webcam, although that part was script-automated - but on top of all the rest of this mess, being that they gave it root access and how they set it up...
A moderately competent STUDENT could, with a second laptop, forge their own access and spy on the other students just as easily as the IT guys, complete with access to both webcam and mic, since the asshats who installed it and set it up didn't properly secure it - despite not only taking great pains to make it obfuscate itself and obviously being technically competent enough to have done so.
So yeah, it's a total fiasco.
I just haven't been commenting cause I am not sure of the point of debating civil rights with folk who think they can pick and choose who gets em and how to use em.
-F
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Quote:
I just haven't been commenting cause I am not sure of the point of debating civil rights with folk who think they can pick and choose who gets em and how to use em.
BAZINGA!
He shoots, he scores.
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UPDATE.
The school has apparently riled the community into a nice little lynch mob by crying and whining about how much money their own criminal behavior is going to cost.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9173659/Pa._school_spy_case_spa
rks_fight_over_money
I'm sorry, that's blaming the victim, in spades, and carries the same reek about it as billing a rape victim for the prosecutors time.
Those dumbasses OUGHT to be coming down on the school with both boots, since it was the schools criminal action which will result in any loss, but no, instead they're practically ready to lynch Blake and his family on command - and folks say schools don't indoctrinate, pish...
Were *I* their lawyer, I would INCREASE the settlement demands to compensate for moving expenses to a new school district since the school and communities behavior has rendered their current region a hostile environment.
AND consider smacking a harrassment/incitement charge on the litany against them as well.
Said lawyer wanted to ask some questions of the IT personnel as well, likely about why any kind of theft-tracking software would be set up to delete records of it's own use on the server end, and exactly how that was supposed to make sense, but a motion is in progress last I heard to quash the subpeano.
Remember folks, it's not the crime, it's the coverup!
And be DAMNED to the useful idiots that help it along!
-Frem
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UPDATE
It's not the crime, it's the coverup.
And the lies, oh the lies...
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/88748377.html?viewAll=y
Oh where to even start.
Well, firstoff.
Quote:
"We did have a theft," she said. "And we have a way we can track them. . . .
"There were six that were taken. All but one came back."
That's right, ONE, as in single, as in only.
And there's obviously been a few I-can't-find-my-laptop issues, HOWEVER..
Quote:
The district has said it turned on the system 42 times this academic year, but won't say how often it used the tracking device in the previous two years - or how many pictures were collected.
More and more that "42 times" sounds like it was pulled out of someones ass to avoid saying "I don't know", cause that's the fact, they DON'T know, and here's the proof of that.
Quote:
Parents may never know: Those computer files are purged before each school year, according to sources.
This after saying it purged after use, well, it's clear the data was purged, and why the hell would you do that regarding theft tracking ?
It makes no sense.
Then there's the lies about the capabilites.
Quote:
Once it was on, the feature kept recording information until it was turned off. Every 15 minutes, as long as the computer was on, open, and connected to the Internet, the program did three things. It recorded the computer's Internet address, captured a screen image, and snapped a Web cam photo.
So, despite all denials, they did have screenshots, if not keylogs, and it's sounding more and more like a VPN setup, which is prettymuch the only way you could do this, and to deny it in the face of someone technically competent enough to understand that is insulting.
Oh, and let's point out the Lower Merion PD's involvement.
Quote:
It's not clear who in the Lower Merion schools had access to the Web cam photos. In a memo explaining LANrev to his fellow techs, Perbix said that, while only he and Cafiero could turn the system on, the information collected was "visible to you if the computer is one you can normally view."
"We also can make these reports available via a Web site to local police who can analyze the information and act upon it," he wrote.
Quote:
That's what happened in the fall of 2008 when six laptops were stolen from the Harriton locker room during a gym class.
Lower Merion police, with an assist from the regional FBI computer lab in Radnor, tracked down five of the computers and arrested the culprit - another student, sources said.
The sixth was tracked to Pakistan.
As time went on, the schools reported thefts to the police nearly two dozen times; three times, juveniles were charged, the sources said. In an additional half-dozen cases, laptops reported stolen turned out to be merely misplaced, the sources said.
Pictures were routinely turned over to police, along with the computer's Internet address.
On his blog, "Best Thing Since Sliced Bread," Perbix recounted an incident in which police recovered a stolen laptop that was sending back its Internet location.
"The police went to the house and were befuddled to find out the people we knew had the laptop was not the family that lived there," Perbix wrote, cautioning people to secure their home wireless network.
"Well, we eventually found out that they were the neighboring house and were borrowing the unsecured WiFi."
Joseph Daly, who retired in 2009 as Lower Merion police superintendent, said he never knew that his department was being furnished with pictures snapped from students' laptops.
I call bullshit, he knew, he HAD to know, given that when you dig deep enough into the actual technical mechanics *and then call in the FBI for an assist* how the hell can you NOT know ?
He just wants to dodge the lawsuit bullet, all that is.
Then there was the absolute incompetence of how this was managed.
Quote:
A review shows that Lower Merion administrators blew past warnings of trouble and missed obvious opportunities to
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UPDATE:
Firstoff, the astroturfed so-called parents group opposing Blake, well, 50% of it's founding members, Bob and Tom there, are employed by the local Gov, which represents a conflict of interest, and in light of that...
Quote:
Although Tom and Bob are elected officials, this matter has nothing whatsoever to do with any actions in those capacities for or on behalf of the Borough of Narberth or their representative roles. Tom and Bob, as Larry and Michael, are parents of high school children in LMSD and are solely and absolutely engaged in this effort as private citizens.
This little disclaimer of theirs reeks of the manure shovel.
And most interesting that there's some *other* seemingly unrelated problems regarding the behavior of Lower Merions Administration, including a lawsuit over that...
http://www.philly.com/philly/education/88890587.html
Quote:
Lower Merion school officials said last night that the district's insurance policy would cover "a significant portion" of the cost of a contentious and expensive 2009 lawsuit about redistricting.
And yet, if their insurance covers such things, then why the flame and blame at the Robbins family, ehe ?
Inquiring minds want to know.
And not just mine.
Quote:
According to news reports, two members of the Harrinton High student council heard about the spy cam feature and approached school principal Steven R. Kline last year. Per the Philadelphia Inquirer:
When Kline confirmed it, students told him they were worried about privacy violations and asked about other types of monitoring. But nothing happened -- not even after the students returned for a follow-up visit, according to other council members who were briefed afterward.
(from Networkworld.com)
So the students, via the student council, tried to get the matter addressed, and predictably, got the complete brushoff, despite raising some very valid concerns, and this is a great part of WHY students see these toothless, helpless student councils as naught more than the pacification device they are in truth - till those councils have some *teeth* it's all just a sham.
(And you know full and well there's a ringer to two out there making helpful little "suggestions" by now, don't you ?)
Oh, and on a side note to this whole KIND of ridiculousness, I did mention earlier some problems with the school my niece goes to and cameras in the bathrooms (which were removed after that incident, and as yet have not been replaced) yes ?
Seems even THAT level of insanity has caught on.
ACLU considering lawsuit over fake cameras installed in Crestwood Middle School bathrooms
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/schools/parents-object-after-crestwo
od-middle-school-principal-puts-429218.html
Seriously, all too many of the folk running schools these days are just plain fekkin nuts, what kinda rocks you gotta have between your ears to think this kind of intrusive-abusive crap is a good idea ?
And it all rolls right back to the broken, idiotic, chain-of-abuse formenting force-resistance-more-force model of idiot authoritarians, only with surveillence instead of violence, but at the root it's the same goddamn thing, instead of trying to reach out to these kids, instead they lock em down tighter and tighter, and squeeze, and squeeze, and the harder the kids fight back, the harder they squeeze, and is it any wonder that some of em snap ?
But that worm is turning, between the demise of the hellcamps and the convenient disposal of those who resist, to ritalin-resistant kids*, and a general social awakening in regards to how we treat kids, the day of the authoritarians is drawing to an end, and I sincerely hope to see night fall upon them.
-Frem
*This was gonna happen, when mommy and daddy were practically raised on it, nature is *going* to lend a hand, it's kinda like how when you try to poison critters, how in two, three generations they're seasoning their food with your poison - well, it's the same basic principle here, that's not to say there are not actual medical cases wh
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UPDATE
Motion to Quash denied, Cafiero to be deposed today.
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/technology/20100405_ap_paschoolo
fficialordereddeposedinwebcamcase.html
Also: as I suspected, there was something personal against the Robbins family pre-dating this case and the whole laptop bullshit was just one more excuse to try and find something to hang on them over the usual smalltown harper valley PTA bullshit.
I can't spill the source, but if you follow this case up and take careful note of the commentary in various places, it'll lead you to who the primary guilty parties behind the wannabe lynch mob are, AND hint at what their reasons are besides.
So this was never about the laptop, or privacy, so much as a community in concert with the school system, trying to bully a family for not toeing the social "line" - more or less school bullying taken one step further and with official involvement, and Blake as an inconvenient casualty of folks who have issues with his parents.
Do you really think this type of bullying STOPS when the bullies and their cronies and victims graduate ?
Nope, those "pillars of the community" then often proceed to do it from positions of authority and under cover of law when they are adults, and it goes on, sometimes even passed down generationally into a blood feud, appalacian hills style...
But more often the bullies wind up local politicians and sherrifs - and then onward and upward in a system that rewards such sociopathy with ever more increasing amounts of power.
And that, right there, is why I revile Sarah Palin, cause she is the examplar of a system which rewards the bad actors of a society.
As for Lower Merion - they've got our teeth in their ankle, and once that happens, we do *NOT* let go.
-Frem
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LOOK OUT!!! I clicked on your link, Frem, and it crashed my Exporer immediately!
As to the rest, huzzah! Glad to hear the good news.Quote:
And that, right there, is why I revile Sarah Palin, cause she is the examplar of a system which rewards the bad actors of a societyQuote:
Right on.
And 
, we need more like you, as I'm always saying!
"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10
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Most likely the flash-based advert window at the bottom - mine blocks those on automatic, but when I went back and checked, the Iframe ads worked ok, but the flash one was kinda iffy...
That kinda crap is why I consider it their own fault so many folks run with Adblock/Flashblock running, you almost have to, yanno ?
-F
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Annnd she takes the fifth.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20100410_Key_figure_in__Webcamga
te__invokes_Fifth.html
Not that, given all the contradictory and demonstrably false public statements she made, it was any kinda surprise, nor do I see it as an automatic admittance of guilt, that particular right exists for a damned good reason.
Thing is, given former public statements, prettymuch *anything* she says opens her up to perjury charges, even discussing the technical capability of the software - on top of which there's a pretty solid case for criminal conspiracy even if wiretapping law doesn't apply, and what with every member of that little clique now trying to shove the blame off onto someone else, no way in hell is she gonna open her mouth and volunteer to be the fall guy, especially since blowing the whistle would also end her career and make her a pariah in the industry no matter how justified it is, given how we treat whistleblowers in this country...
So what recorse does she really have but to remain silent and let the evidence be weighed on it's own merits - and I am damn curious to know if L3Comms forensic investigation was ever completed and what the results are, but we'll prolly never know.
Anyhows, they knew she'd be takin the fifth, what the legal strategem is here is by the questions they ask, encourage her to believe one or more of her co-conspirators has rolled her (a distinct and likely possibility) and by doing so encourage her to cut a deal implicating THEM instead.
Eventually, someone's gonna talk, someone *always* talks, even if, and especially when, they are not supposed to - as it's been said, the only way three people keep a secret is if two of em are dead.
Not that it matters too much now that prettymuch everyone in that whole blasted county knows the score, but knowing and having courtroom quality evidence are different things - and by not seizing the computer equipment immediately, and shitcanning (if they did, that's pretty vague) L3Comms investigation, I doubt there's gonna be enough to charge em with anything serious, but you never know... I do wonder about that deliberate delay, and the foot dragging of the Lower Merion PD, considering they lied about their own knowledge and involvement.
-Frem
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Quote:
"Peeping Tom" Webcamgate: School laptops took thousands of images
"Emails suggest school administrator Carol Cafiero may be a voyeur. She invokes the Fifth Amendment to every question asked of her for downloading pictures to her home computer, including students naked in their homes."
Plaintiffs' motion for sanctions for contempt of court ordered discovery of school administrators' home computers
http://media.philly.com/documents/MotiontoCompel.pdf
The system that Lower Merion school officials used to track lost and stolen laptops wound up secretly capturing thousands of images, including photographs of students in their homes, Web sites they visited, and excerpts of their online chats, says a new motion filed in a suit against the district.
More than once, the motion asserts, the camera on Robbins' school-issued laptop took photos of Robbins as he slept in his bed. Each time, it fired the images off to network servers at the school district.
Back at district offices, the Robbins motion says, employees with access to the images marveled at the tracking software. It was like a window into "a little LMSD soap opera," a staffer is quoted as saying in an e-mail to Carol Cafiero, the administrator running the program.
"I know, I love it," she is quoted as having replied.
Those details, disclosed in the motion filed late Thursday in federal court by Robbins' attorney, offer a wider glimpse into the now-disabled program that spawned Robbins' lawsuit and has shined an international spotlight on the district.
In the filing, the Penn Valley family claims the district's records show that the controversial tracking system captured more than 400 photos and screen images from 15-year-old Blake Robbins' school-issued laptop during two weeks last fall, and that "thousands of webcam pictures and screen shots have been taken of numerous other students in their homes."
Robbins, a sophomore at Harriton High School, and his parents, Michael and Holly Robbins, contend e-mails turned over to them by the district suggest Cafiero "may be a voyeur" who might have viewed some of the photos on her home computer.
The motion says Cafiero, who has been placed on paid leave, has failed to turn that computer over to the plaintiffs despite a court order to do so, and asks a judge to sanction her.
Cafiero's lawyer Thursday night disputed the suggestion that his client had downloaded any such photos to her home computer. Lawyer Charles Mandracchia said Cafiero has cooperated with federal investigators and is willing to let technicians hired by the district examine her computer if the judge so orders.
He also said Robbins' attorney had never asked him for Cafiero's personal computer. "He's making this up because his case is falling apart," Mandracchia said.
Since the Robbinses sued in February, district officials have acknowledged that they activated the theft-tracking software on school-issued laptops 42 times since September, and a number of times in the previous school year - all in order to retrieve lost or stolen computers.
But they have stopped short of specifying how many students may have been photographed and monitored, or how often - information that could shed light on whether Robbins' experience was unique or common.
An attorney for the district declined to comment last night on the Robbinses' latest motion, except to say that a report due in a few weeks will spell out what the district's own investigation has found.
"To the extent there is any evidence of misuse of any images, that also will be disclosed," said the attorney, former federal prosecutor Henry E. Hockeimer Jr. "However, at this late stage of our investigation we are not aware of any such evidence."
The Robbinses' lawyer, Mark S. Haltzman, said the new details emerged in tens of thousands of pages of documents and e-mails the district turned over to him in recent weeks.
Three district employees have also given sworn depositions in the suit. A fourth, Ca
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Stop changing the thread title, John.
The big blowout question in the case is gonna be, of course, why didn't they turn the camera OFF once they had ascertained the location of the laptop ?
Well, for the reasons I mentioned above, the community and certain folk within were lookin for something, anything, to pick some shit with the Robbins family - ergo, this *was* intentional, malicious spying.
Goin down just as I called it, and how convenient they gave Cafiero time to purge her personal machine - and no mention of the conflict of interest of the school hiring the investigating attorney at a rate of several hundred bucks an hour as their defense council, neither.
Also quite telling is how the newsies, school district, and authorities never did ask the students for their input on the matter, as if they didn't matter - and despite having enough issues to have tried to address it via their powerless, token student council, I haven't seen much pressure from the other students either.
There's more reasons for that than just feeling powerless, cause of the generational issues I mentioned, but still we got a ways to go before youth in general starts growin the teeth they need to bite back at a world that kicks em every chance it gets.
-F
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Was re-reading Enders Game for a bit with breakfast, and a bit from Pg108 leaped out at me, especially as I'd seen it also quoted somewhere else this morning, ironically appropriate to this and other school/youth related topics.
Quote:
"It’s the teachers, they’re the enemy. They get us to fight each other, to hate each other. The game is everything. Win win win. It amounts to nothing."
-Dink
-F
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Hoo boy, and it all unravels with a bang.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100416/ap_on_hi_te/us_laptops_spying_on_s
tudents
Quote:
Mark Haltzman, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of Robbins and his family, said evidence now shows the district used the tracking software for non-authorized reasons — for instance, when students failed to pay the required insurance or return the laptops at year's end. At least once, a name mix-up led the district to activate the wrong student's laptop, he charged.
"Thousands of webcam pictures and screen shots have been taken of numerous other students in their homes, many of which never reported their laptops lost or missing," Haltzman wrote in a motion filed Thursday.
But the real Columbo one-more-thing-ringer, is this.
(It's a video, and I prefer text, but in this case, necessary)
http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/school-allegedly-spied-via-web
-cams-19196035
The fact that they're making these allegations publicly, means that their lawyer and the news agencies legal department comfirm they have legal cause and right to do so - which means they've got hard evidence, and that, folks, is somebodys ass, over this.
Oh but that's not all, the fact that they also spied on the daughter, and in a seperate, earlier, incident - is the final confirmation of what this was really about, an established community clique wanting to get something on the Robbins to harrass them with, and since it's not longer really a secret who they are, the prime movers of it other than the school administration are good ole Bob and Tom (See Above) - you know, the ones behind the lynch mob and the ones at the forefront of the lawsuit opposition, how convenient, eh ?
One of whom has a nasty little habit of referring to Blake as a "Dirtbag", which is what tipped us off and allowed us to trace right back to him the endless hostile and defamatory comments posted to almost every news story and site carrying this tale of woe, not that he did anything illegal, but what's good for the goose, yanno...
You see, Lower Merion has other problems, including a certain level of racism and class warfare, and the latter has a LOT to do with why this little clique hates the Robbins family - can't have the poor white trash climbing the same ladder as the elites, oh no martha, what will the neighbors think.. GRRRrrr.
But since they wanna play games muckrakin people, welllll - but we ain't gonna do shit, not yet, this is Blakes party, and him and his family deserve, and will get, the first bite.
And when they get through with em, then they'll get a lesson in what *real* muckraking is.
Quote:
What now? Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin' niggers, who'll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass.
-Marcellus Wallace.
-F
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Hoo boy, it just gets better and better...
"Only 42 times" has long since gone out the window, as the process of discovery and partial results from L3Comms investigation come to light.
56,000 images.
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/042010_Lower_Merion_Web
cam_Spying_Case
"I am not surprised," Haltzman said. "And remember, that number, 56,000, is only what they've been able to recover. We know that there are many, many more pictures that we believe of even Blake Robbins alone, there's at least another 300 to 400 screenshots and webcam pictures that they haven't been able to recover – or say that they haven't been able to recover."
If it walks like a Duck...
http://hothardware.com/News/School-District-Admits-Taking-Inappropriat
e-Photos-in-Laptop-Spying-Case/
Complete with a link to a PDF of some of the allegations, which have so far not been refuted whatever.
Insurance bails out.
http://whyy.org/cms/news/government-politics/2010/04/23/who-will-end-u
p-paying-for-laptop-spying/36627
Tsk, hard to see how it could possibly get worse, eh ?
Hint to LMSD: When you find yourself in a hole that deep, STOP DIGGING.
-Frem
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UPDATE.
Quote:
Lower Merion School District employees activated the Web cameras and Internet address tracking software on laptops they gave to high school students about 146 times during the last two school years, snapping nearly 56,000 images, district investigators have concluded.
"42 times" eh ?
Like I said, a flat lie, an asspull to cover up the fact that they really had no idea.
Quote:
Hockeimer said that the investigation found that administrators activated the tracking system for just one student this year who failed to pay the $55 insurance fee.
Robbins says he is that student. Hockeimer declined to confirm or deny that.
Of course not, but for a fact, they were after Blakes head, and it was a convenient excuse, is all it was - all it EVER was, only now they've dug themselves into a hole with it.
Supposedly there will be a fuller accounting on May 3rd - I won't hold my breath cause they're already trying like hell to get a postponement.
-F
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Ayep, saw THIS one coming...
Quote:
The last time she tried, Cafiero said, was after a technician told her in November that he had activated a student's laptop Web cam even though the computer was not missing.
According to Cafiero, the technician said a Lower Merion High School teacher had pressed him to turn on the camera based on a suspicion that the student was goofing off in class.
Hell, that statement ALONE is enough to hang them, seems Cafiero has decided that if she's gonna fry for this, she ain't gonna go alone - as is typical of such folk when finally pressed to the wall, they start making admissions of "lesser" crimes and "mistakes" and the like, rather reminiscent of a bird fluttering a "broken" wing to distract one from it's nest.
What none of em realize is that after all these lies, all these denials, that right there, the admission that someone *DID* in fact misuse the software to spy on students - that hangs em, especially since she has just implicated Perbix, since he was the only other person in the office with the ability to turn that software on, so not referring to him by name doesn't fool anyone.
It's also worth a note that her attorney, the one supposed to be investigating the school, yet hired BY them as defense counsel, has also filed to have the Robbins attorney disbarred, which smacks of political-level gamesmanship, especially in light of the neighborhood and community being more of a lynch mob against the Robbins family whom they perceive as a lower social "class" than themselves, which is what all this has been about from the very start.
Were it not for the involvement and interest of the press, and of privacy advocates, they would very well have easily gotten away with running the Robbins out of town on a rail - which is still the likely outcome cause I can't see them ever really being safe in that neighborhood again, especially when there are so many ways the community can harrass them.
I sincerely hope the Robbins family makes this bullshit economically painful to them, and then has the decent damned sense to skip town before the REAL retaliation starts.
So - how *do* you handle school bullying, when the school *is* the bully, and fully supported by the community ?
-Frem
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Oh gee, what a surprise, a report by the law firm hired to defend lower merion, finds lower merion blameless - kinda like how police internal investigations always find the cops didn't do anything wrong, eh ?
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/92685024.html?cmpid=1558579
7
Of course, the school officials are trying also to toss it on the IT staff, which is about par for the course.
Funny thing about that, since the report says one thing, and Cafiero's indirect implication of Perbix, as noted above, claims exactly the opposite.
Really, when they have lied so much, and so often, how much credibility do the school and their IT department really have ?
Neither one is especially credible, since the conflict of interest of hiring the folks tasked to investigate you as your defense counsel is pretty apalling, and it's not like Cafiero or Perbix is exactly gonna come clean either - all of em are trying to weasel out of this without anything stickin to em, and because the community itself is sympathetic for the reasons also noted above, they probably will.
I still hope Blake and his parents take em to the fuckin cleaners, given the amount of lies, CYA and backtracking, there's certainly enough evidence to prove serious negligence, at the minimum.
-F
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Frem,
Point of information, in case ya missed it: No one was made aware of the fact that the cameras could be turned on and off and recorded remotely, not a native feature of the machine, but one created by software snuck onto the machines by the staff. I didn't even know you could do that, but I guess it's got power, so you can turn it on when the machine is off. I'll bet you can't do this: turn the camera on if the kid has turned off the power bar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
There's actually probable cause to amend the parental consent stipulation, what with concerns about abuse.
But I suppose that's what hearings for emancipation are about. Still, there really ought to be a way for kids to act without parental consent if there really are rights violations going on and parents are complicit, without necessarily emancipating the kid from the parents. Not only might it protect the parents more, in the event that things lead to an emancipation hearing or if the violators try to drag the parents in, but it also gives kids a way to defend themselves.
I did say we were workin that issue, and while the matter wasn't really related, it still holds up an issue which will enable me to ram some abuses within the State of Michigan right back down the throats of abusive and complicit parents, crossways.
FROM AP WIRE.
Quote:
LANSING (AP) — The Michigan Supreme Court says a parent’s signature doesn’t waive the legal rights of a child who is hurt at play.
The court ruled Friday in the case of a boy who broke his leg while at a business called Bounce Party near Grand Rapids.
The court says that under Michigan’s common law a parent cannot bind a child through a contract. The decision means the owner of Bounce Party can be sued for negligence. The justices upheld a 2008 ruling by the appeals court.
Justices Stephen Markman and Maura Corrigan disagreed. They warn the decision will increase litigation throughout Michigan and reduce recreational opportunities for children because of the financial risk.
The underlined part there is the important part, cause it now opens all kinds of doors to step in and take action when a kid is contracted against their will - AND yeah, I bet they are indeed worried about "increased litigation" since it also means that the survivors of those camps can sue the parents who sent em there.
This, shall we said, changes the landscape a bit, now that it's no longer in any doubt.
As for the case in question, should anyone care - given that LMSD was bankrolling (and at prime rates, since the bills around 800K even now and their insurance company is balking, which means it'll get thrown on the taxpayers while LMSD points the finger of blame for that at Robbins) the investigators one and all, and the attorney supervising the case, and there were certain irregularities - that means a SECOND investigation has been ordered by the judge by the plaintiffs, only, what you think they're gonna find after all the drives and material have been in the hands of "friendly" experts in computer forensics for weeks, ehe ?
Come on, we know the drill - and as mentioned this had shit to do with any of the official reasons anyway.
-Frem
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Annnnd...
Blake gets his bite.
Lower Merion district's laptop saga ends with $610,000 settlement
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/front_page/20101012_Lower_Merion_distri
ct_s_laptop_saga_ends_with__610_000_settlement.html
I sincerely hope the Robbins family has the sense to take the money and run, cause they're never gonna be safe from the smalltown petty bullshit harrassment those assholes are going to throw down in retaliation for this - especially since that's what all this was ABOUT to begin with.
And as promised, now that he's had HIS bite...
Now it's our turn.
Funny, I am not sure whether to be honored or insulted by a residents comment this evening, regarding my ability to spot and recognize even a black cat in pitch darkness - resulting in me dishing out a lecture to him on our leash policy...
"Dude, you're like the motherfuckin eye of Sauron or something, HOW the hell do you see this shit ?!"
I was just amused by that given the graphic posted at the beginning of this thread.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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