How Can I Prove I am Not a Racist?

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 12, 2023 05:20
VIEWED: 18105
PAGE 1 of 2

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:17 PM (P)

Quote:

by Deanna Rogers

How do you prove you are not a racist? I, my husband, and several members of my family have attended several Tea Party events and rallies, including a rally of over 100,000 in Washington, D.C. last September. According to the NAACP, and many members of the Democrat party establishment, my family and I are either racists ourselves, or we are tacitly supporting and enabling other racists in the Tea Party. So how do we defend our honor?

Is it proof that I am not racist that I served for several years as a literacy tutor in the African-American community in Columbia, SC? Is it proof that I am not a racist that my family attends a Baptist church in Wendell that has members of multiple races? Is it proof that I am not a racist when my family co-sponsored a black mother and her two children at Christmas last year and that my white son chose all the toys and clothes for her black son based on their common love for all things Bakugan and sports? Is it proof that we are not racist that we invite our Hispanic employee and his wife to join us on our family vacation at the beach? Or how about that my family includes members of several races on the approved NAACP list, and that I have close relationships with those family members?

Seriously, how can I prove to the NAACP and its members and supporters that my family and I are not racists? Have any of these accusers been to a Tea Party meeting, rally, or event? Have they seen the black, white, and Hispanic attendees who sit together, laugh together, and share conversation about fiscal responsibility or lower taxes? Or are the liberal name-callers jumping on the bandwagon to condemn all Tea Party members out of hand? Can any of the NAACP members and supporters "prove" that any racist events have actually happened?

Why are my family and I subjected to condemnation and the extreme insult of being labeled "racist" and then forced to either submit to the derogatory term or try (desperately and futilely) to defend ourselves from the slur? Why are so many members of the Democrat party and the NAACP comfortable with labeling all members of the Tea Party as "racist"? Who are the bigots now?

True

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:19 PM (P)

Ooooo man... Im so on the spot to say something here... I can feel people like Kwick just CHOPING at the bit... but Ill wait.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:19 PM (P)

Good find, btw, Rap.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Good find, btw, Rap.

Thanks.

It's what I do.

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:26 PM (P)

Lol, nice. Ask Robert Byrd's ghost.

The burden is on the party making accusations of racism. If that party satisfies their burden, it is up to the putative racist to defend themselves. Apparently, you may satisfy your burden by screeching "you raciss."

Rappy and Wulf, however, are known racist homophobes. To prove you are not racist, or homophobic, you must smooch black dudes and post video evidence. I promise not to fap.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:29 PM (P)

How do I prove Im NOT racist?

Is it by showing that my wife is Hispanic? My best friend is Black? I've dated, and loved, black and Columbian girls? That I've taught black adults to read? That I've shed blood protecting disadvantaged, minorities? Given money and worked for an organization that wants to make sure all people are able to defend themselves and their families, blacks jews whatever?

Hmmm. I wonder if it will ever be enough.

Or if Libs/progs NEED that race card to try and maintain their "moral" high ground?

... Waiting for Kwick to jump all over this. he can't WAIT to jump to the defense of people who actually ARE racist.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:31 PM (P)

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:

Rappy and Wulf, however, are known racist homophobes. .

How do you know I'm NOT black or gay ?

Seriously ?

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:35 PM (P)

"How do you know I'm NOT black or gay ?

Seriously ? "

I KNOW, right?

Heh.

KIRKULES

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Lol, nice. Ask Robert Byrd's ghost.

The burden is on the party making accusations of racism. If that party satisfies their burden, it is up to the putative racist to defend themselves. Apparently, you may satisfy your burden by screeching "you raciss."

Rappy and Wulf, however, are known racist homophobes. To prove you are not racist, or homophobic, you must smooch black dudes and post video evidence. I promise not to fap.

Wouldn't kissing a pair of hot black lesbians prove the same.

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:40 PM (P)

Curse your logic. No, it would not prove the same. At least not to me. It would have to be black dudes. From haiti. Aids optional.

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"How do you know I'm NOT black or gay ?

Seriously ? "

I KNOW, right?

Heh.

Don't get my hopes up, racist homophobe.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:43 PM (P)

I would kiss, A LOT, a pair of HOT black lesbian chicks (if they were hot, no fat chicks, and would let me)... but my wife would have a problem with that.

And as I am not of the ghey... I wouldn't kiss another guy.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:47 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Curse your logic. No, it would not prove the same. At least not to me. It would have to be black dudes. From haiti. Aids optional.

So, basically, one must be Magic Johnson to prove they're not a racist ?

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:40 PM (P)

One way to prove you're not a racist is to stop being a racist. It's a start.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One way to prove you're not a racist is to stop being a racist. It's a start.

Standard NAACP response.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:50 PM (P)

Well, being that racism is first a preoccupation with race, racial differences, race relations, or racial tension, I would say one way to prove you're not racist is to not care about race, racism, or reverse racism, and not allow race to be a consideration in your treatment of other people or policies you might enact.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:50 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ooooo man... Im so on the spot to say something here... I can feel people like Kwick just CHOPING at the bit... but Ill wait.

What's "CHOPING"?

Has anyone ever asked the racists at the tea-bagging rallies to please take down their racist signs and banners? Has anyone confronted the racism of the more racist elements of the tea-baggers? If you want to prove you're not racist, it might help to not hang out with racists.

And of course, the author of the article doesn't like being lumped into a group and called racist - which is what she says makes the Democrats and the NAACP bigoted. And I think she honestly doesn't see that she's doing the exact same thing to them that she's complaining about them doing to her.

Nowhere in the article does she ever say anything about confronting racism at the tea parties, or telling people with their Obama-in-blackface and Obama-as-witch-doctor placards that they really aren't helping the cause with such overtly racist imagery. In fact, I haven't seen or heard a single Republican or tea-bagger call out the racist elements of the tea parties to tell them they aren't helping, or to get off their side. Nope, they laugh and march right alongside them, hand in hand, and then try to claim that they really aren't racist. Nahhhh... They aren't racist; they just hate black people!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:51 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One way to prove you're not a racist is to stop being a racist. It's a start.

Standard NAACP response.

Sorry, not a member.

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:56 PM (P)

Not a member of the NAACP? Ok, how about the ACLU...?

lol

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:03 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One way to prove you're not a racist is to stop being a racist. It's a start.

Standard NAACP response.

Sorry, not a member.

Didn't claim you were. Just stating that it's the standard NAACP response.

KIRKULES

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:28 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, being that racism is first a preoccupation with race, racial differences, race relations, or racial tension, I would say one way to prove you're not racist is to not care about race, racism, or reverse racism.

I agree, one of the reasons racism is still around is because racists and those experiencing racism are fixated on race. Those that believe racism is still a big problem need to stop worrying about every racist slur by some backward ass country fuck and focus on racism from people that have power over them in some way. The hypersensitivity towards average assholes dilutes the important work of eliminating race from hiring practices, banking and other areas that have real effect on your ability to live a life free from racism. Trying to force every hillbilly to become PC just causes a backlash. Giving your vote to the side that screams racism the loudest doesn't help the cause when half of those screaming racism are themselves racists.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:29 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Not a member of the NAACP? Ok, how about the ACLU...?

lol

Nope. Keep guessing, though!

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:32 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, being that racism is first a preoccupation with race, racial differences, race relations, or racial tension, I would say one way to prove you're not racist is to not care about race, racism, or reverse racism.

I agree, one of the reasons racism is still around is because racists and those experiencing racism are fixated on race. Those that believe racism is still a big problem need to stop worrying about every racist slur by some backward ass country fuck and focus on racism from people that have power over them in some way. The hypersensitivity towards average assholes dilutes the important work of eliminating race from hiring practices, banking and other areas that have real effect on your ability to live a life free from racism. Trying to force every hillbilly to become PC just causes a backlash. Giving your vote to the side that screams racism the loudest doesn't help the cause when half of those screaming racism are themselves racists.

And at the moment, it seems the tea-baggers are screaming racism the loudest. Are you saying they're racists?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:51 PM (P)

No one on the Tea Party side is screaming "racism".

They're being falsely accused of BEING racists, which is far different.

Well, it is in the real world. Not sure about KwickieLand.

KWICKO

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:55 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No one on the Tea Party side is screaming "racism".

They're being falsely accused of BEING racists, which is far different.

Well, it is in the real world. Not sure about KwickieLand.

No one? Not even Wulfie here?

They're not being "falsely" accused of anything. They actually ARE racists, a good number of them. I know you can't see that, but you are an avowed racist yourself, so how could you?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

MINCINGBEAST

Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:56 PM (P)

Race matters; it exists. It is immune to our aspirations, hopes and denial. There are differences between various races, or more accurately, populations. They are in part biological. This makes us uncomfortable, and so we embrace platitudes and focus on our admitted similarities.

Race used to matter to much, and things have improved. We overcorrected, however, and are in a state of brittle hypersensitivity. Antiracism has stuffed its head up its own ass, and devoured itself from the inside out. We know race matters, but refuse to discuss it, and in setting it aside it becomes taboo and powerful.

My solution: genocide. Or Wulf/Rappy make out videos.

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

They're not being "falsely" accused of anything. They actually ARE racists, a good number of them. I know you can't see that, but you are an avowed racist yourself, so how could you?

No proof that the Tea Party is racist, no proof that I'm racist....

Yep. Par for the course.

Life in KwickieLand....

BYTEMITE

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:08 AM (P)

Quote:
There are differences between various races, or more accurately, populations. They are in part biological.

I agree with your other points, but disagree with this, if your meaning is by function. The difference between populations, where differences exists, is most likely chemical and diet related. Also possibly cultural.

The only place where function differs among population that is genetic is either by disorders or by gender. Even gender differences, aside from the obvious, are iffy and hard to measure.

As for race, it exists, but I'm not really sure why it matters to people. Minority groups being oppressed/ostracized? Yeah, it happens. Skin colour is a pretty stupid reason for it to happen, being mostly decorative, and any skin colour could be ostracized in a given situation, and who ostracizes who has large regional variations.

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:24 AM (P)

Byte,

Very nice article on Slate.com recently (I'd link, but my blackberry link-fails) discussing a study on physiology and athletic performance. Cliff note version: the limb-length and center of gravity ideal for sprinting is best represented by West African (not generically "black" populations); the same is true of swimming and European populations. Beyond mere appearance, many physical characteristics tend to cluster with population groups. They are a product of an environment, and natural selection. They are biological.

BYTEMITE

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:47 AM (P)

Hmmn... I might be able to buy that, though I would need to see the article. And I also tend to be dubious about these kind of claims in general, they seem not reproducible and hard to substantiate.

KANEMAN

Friday, July 16, 2010 1:09 AM (P)

I wouldn't even try. As long as their is BET, NAACP, and a host of other RACIST orgs. I would just be a racist....Well, it's true.......

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 1:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Byte,

Very nice article on Slate.com recently (I'd link, but my blackberry link-fails) discussing a study on physiology and athletic performance. Cliff note version: the limb-length and center of gravity ideal for sprinting is best represented by West African (not generically "black" populations); the same is true of swimming and European populations. Beyond mere appearance, many physical characteristics tend to cluster with population groups. They are a product of an environment, and natural selection. They are biological.

http://www.slate.com/id/2260314

Go be delighted.

The original study tries to avoid the word race in favor of "heredity", which while accurate to a degree, is also a dodge that shows how spooked people are of the subject.

Its a small leap from pointing out the obvious and objective (West africans better adapted for sprinting than inuits) to some jackass declaring "blacks is dumb due to their race", so I understand the reluctance.

NIKI2

Friday, July 16, 2010 1:46 AM (P)

You want some proof of racism in the Tea Party, Crappy? I'll give you just a taste.

We’ve all seen the poster now of Obama as a witch doctor. Dr. David McKalip forwarded it to fellow members of a Google listserv affiliated with the Tea Party movement.

The guy holding this sign? He’s the Texas tea party leader Dale Robertson

Carl Paladino, the Tea Party favorite for New York governor sent e-mails to friends, including:

- A video entitled "Obama Inauguration Rehearsal." The video shows an African tribesman dancing, and is apparently popular among white supremacists.
- An email with the subject line "Proof the Irish discovered Africa" containing a video of monkeys that appear to be doing a Riverdance-style jig
- A “motivational poster”:

- A photo of Barack and Michelle depicted as a pimp and a ho:

Then there’s this, from Tea Party protests:

And posted on the Twitter page of the Springboro Tea Party by Sonny Thomas, the group’s founder:
“Illegals everywhere today! So many spics makes me feel like a speck. Grrr. Wheres my gun!?”

That’s a sampling, enough for anyone to state “There is a racist aspect to the Tea Party movement”. One blogger said it perfectly:

Quote:
Regardless of all the well-informed, thoughtful members of the Tea Party movement, the racist Americans out there are migrating towards the movement. Since the leadership of the movement will not create a specific and clear statement declaring its complete and udder contempt for racism in any form, it by default embraces it.

I do feel sorry for the "good" conservatives out there. It must be difficult to make your voice heard among such rabble.

Although there is lots and lots more, I rest my case..If they'd call them out, it would go a long way. They won't, they'd rather bitch about being called racist.

Personally, I never thought the entire Tea Party was racist, or even the majority of them, and I don't think many people do believe that. Those who ARE racist within their ranks get attention because they are overt, dramatic, and carry ugly signs. If the Tea Party didn't want to be called racist, they should make some effort to negate that appearance...certainly those people have the same right to show up and be heard, but if they'd been called out, or if anyone in the Tea Party had EVER said in any speech that racism was bad and they didn't condone it within their ranks, this wouldn't be an issue...the focus would have been on those who were overtly racist and it wouldn't have spread to the whole Party being called that.

However, when you have a convention and, in an auditorium full of Tea Partiers, the speaker says we should go back to the Jim Crow laws, the literacy test before you can vote, says people are allowed to vote who can’t even spell “vote”, and the crowd whistles, cheers and applauds him, the appearance becomes obvious.

As to individuals, racism shows up in the way people talk/write/act. It's not automatically assumed, but Wulf, you constantly use terminology that indicates the way you think of Black and Brown people, so it's natural people would come to the conclusion. It's a mentality--probably not a conscious one, but it determines the words that come to mind when you talk about other races. Doesn't matter who your friends/wives are, because we can't KNOW; you can say anything you want here, just as any of us can. The fact is that you WRITE in a way that shows a bias, that shows you feel they are "less than" in some way, and I don't think you can consciously change that.

Kirk, I don’t think anyone’s trying to force rednecks to be PC...that’s just not possible and surely everyone knows it. But when a group like the T

KANEMAN

Friday, July 16, 2010 1:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Byte,

Very nice article on Slate.com recently (I'd link, but my blackberry link-fails) discussing a study on physiology and athletic performance. Cliff note version: the limb-length and center of gravity ideal for sprinting is best represented by West African (not generically "black" populations); the same is true of swimming and European populations. Beyond mere appearance, many physical characteristics tend to cluster with population groups. They are a product of an environment, and natural selection. They are biological.

Show me one Black civilization on earth that is beyond barbarism....I believe they have been on earth the longest and all other races evolved beyond them. They are so non-evolved they have no capacity for community or family EVEN in this country. Around the rest of the world, especially where there is no non-black influence, it is even worse. If I am wrong show me....Well, it's true.......

BYTEMITE

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:23 AM (P)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_military_innovation_and_change

*shrug* Not much, and maybe it's just excuses.

The Zulus beat the British a couple times, before being crushed completely and decisively. And having decent military (with the highest tech being spears and shields), I'll admit, is not exactly a sign of being civilized.

Do we count the Moors and the Egyptians as African? Some of them were black...

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:26 AM (P)

Kane, you've raised a rebuttable presumption of racism, and demonstrated half of why people are afraid to discuss race.

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:34 AM (P)

Niki,

You can post all the pics and links you want, but all the circumstantial, suspect and irrelevant "evidence" you toss out, there's still nothing that ties the Tea Party and its platform to anything remotely being " racist ".

Leave the true racism to the professionals....

KANEMAN

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Kane, you've raised a rebuttable presumption of racism, and demonstrated half of why people are afraid to discuss race.

Now beast, People are afraid of racism no longer. Sure, sheaffer may be afraid to ask Holder(the original announcer of America's fear of talking about Racism), about the black panther voter intimidation or his departments "alleged" guideline of not prosecuting black perpetrators of racism.

I am not, nor should you. Black people are the most racist on earth. They never talk about the nations good...It is always about the black community. Show me one other race that is that self absorbed. They are the true racist. They look out only for blacks and care nothing about others. I find the Black music awards and the thousands of other racist thingys...Hilarious

And I still say...Show me one black culture that has moved beyond barbarism..

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:51 AM (P)

Rappy, are you wearing an ascot?

'Cause your ass got schooled by Niki!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 3:16 AM (P)

Kane, whether one group has had the right combination of geographic good fortune, and social pressure, to move past barbarism is not on point. It is, however, an echo of the white man's burden.

Condemning african civilization for its relative lack of development (which colonialism must play some role in) does nothing to further a frank discussion about hereditary differences and our racial hang ups.

I say this as a racially callous asshole.

NIKI2

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:09 AM (P)

Well said, Mincing. And I'd like to note that the "New Black Panther voter intimidation" thing is a riot--they did it in front of a PROJECT, where the vast majority were Black. That voting spot has traditionally gone enormously democrat, with sometimes as few as 5 votes Republican. So it's laughable to think that two people (the entire "membership" of the "New Black Panther Party") were there to intimidate the teeeny minority of people who vote republican...it would have gone democrat anyway, by a vast majority.

Now, two guys acting out to get on TV, that's a different matter. And I repeat: DUMBYA refused to go after them, on January 9, 2009, and it turned into a civil suit after that.

Could we put that one to bed, PLEASE? It's laughable, and surely you guys can come up with something better.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:17 AM (P)

Niki, I think you meant it would have gone DEMOCRAT by a huge majority, right?

And yeah, it's been thoroughly debunked, but they won't let go of it, because it's all they've got, and they ARE just that desperate.

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:19 AM (P)

It's only laughable if you think voter intimidation is a laughing matter.

Flip it, and put KKK members out in front of a polling site near a trailer park, somewhere in Kentucky or Tennessee, and if ONE black person got turned away because they were scared, for ANY reason, real or perceived, then we'd have ourselves a full blown federal case.

And rightfully so !

That the Bush DOJ didn't pursue the case means nothing. Bush didn't do a lot of things he should have done, as Karl Rove recently stated about not fighting back hard enough w/ the Dems. Doesn't change the facts of the case, one iota.

( and no, it's not in the least bit been " thoroughly debunked " . You'd LIKE it to , of course, because it shows just how sad this administration is, and how claims of Obama being " post racial " are a joke. From calling the Cambridge police " stupid " to dropping the clear and obvious case of voter intimidation, Obama is showing himself to be a true product of Rev Wright's " church". And that's what scares Lefties the most.... that America will see Obama for who his really is, and not for the fake P.R. creation he was made out to be by the MSM )

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:21 AM (P)

To be clear, the New Black Panther party is vile and racist. But demonstrating that black folk can be crazed, racist assholes too does nothing to make paler crazed racist assholes any cuddlier.

The decision whether or not to prosecute is complicated, and I doubt the blackness of the party was the determining factor.

That said, I would get a kick out of making the worst fears of the New Panthers come true. I like confirming people's world view, especially when its insane.

HKCAVALIER

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:25 AM (P)

Um, "racism" is not a fact, it is an opinion and therefore purely subjective. Therefore, it cannot be proven and hence, cannot be disproven.

Please take note: WE CANNOT CONTROL WHAT OTHERS THINK OF US. WE ARE ALL HELPLESS AGAINST THE BELIEFS OF OTHERS REGARDING OUR CHARACTER.

If someone calls you "racist" and you don't believe you are and they are insusceptible to your mitigating eloquence, I suggest you avoid that person. Problem solved. Thread over.

Next!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:31 AM (P)

HK, point well taken, but in some instances, I think racism crosses from subjective state of mind to objective fact...see generally segregated schools, lynchings, etc...also, we use circumstantial evidence to demonstrate subjective states all the time. So I dissent.

PS: you are a racist!

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:44 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's only laughable if you think voter intimidation is a laughing matter.

Flip it, and put KKK members out in front of a polling site near a trailer park, somewhere in Kentucky or Tennessee, and if ONE black person got turned away because they were scared, for ANY reason, real or perceived, then we'd have ourselves a full blown federal case.

And rightfully so !

That the Bush DOJ didn't pursue the case means nothing. Bush didn't do a lot of things he should have done, as Karl Rove recently stated about not fighting back hard enough w/ the Dems. Doesn't change the facts of the case, one iota.

( and no, it's not in the least bit been " thoroughly debunked " . You'd LIKE it to , of course, because it shows just how sad this administration is, and how claims of Obama being " post racial " are a joke. From calling the Cambridge police " stupid " to dropping the clear and obvious case of voter intimidation, Obama is showing himself to be a true product of Rev Wright's " church". And that's what scares Lefties the most.... that America will see Obama for who his really is, and not for the fake P.R. creation he was made out to be by the MSM )

So you're chiding Obama for dropping a case that Bush dropped, and claiming that Bush dropping it means nothing, but Obama NOT dropping it (because Bush did, not Obama) means SOMETHING? Is that what you're claiming?

Your mind is going, Rappy. You're too wrapped up in your Obama Derangement Syndrome, and it's affecting your mental health.

This is truly you at your partisan worst, outright dismissing EVERYTHING Bush did, while giving Obama 100% of the blame for everything Bush did!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

HKCAVALIER

Friday, July 16, 2010 8:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
HK, point well taken, but in some instances, I think racism crosses from subjective state of mind to objective fact...see generally segregated schools, lynchings, etc...also, we use circumstantial evidence to demonstrate subjective states all the time. So I dissent.

PS: you are a racist!

Not so fast, Time Lord! We are speaking here of how "I" can prove I'm not racist, not whether folk who believe I'm racist can agree on criteria for defining me as such. "I" am still specifically powerless to change their minds for them. Still a fruitless enterprise. Still, best to avoid such folk, if I can.

No one can convince me that I am racist, either (but thanks for trying). I must come to that conclusion on my own.

Next!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, July 16, 2010 9:42 AM (P)

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 9:45 AM (P)

Yes, as I said, point well taken. If someone subjectively believes that they are not a racist, then they may be persuasion proof. Yet, they may also demonstrate objective indicia of racism--such as belonging to the Tea Party or the KKK. Whether or not you define yourself as racist, or can be convinced to, doesn't mean that others won't be right if they define you as one. Self definition has its limitations, which why we must always let others determine our identities. And also, choices.

Anyway, are you sure I can't convince you that you're racist? I have accused you without any supporting evidence (indeed, the evidence tilts contra) but do you not feel obligated to declare that some of your best friends are black, and you once went on a date with a half-mexican chick?

You are too sensible.

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, July 16, 2010 9:51 AM (P)

I am not, nor should you. Black people are the most racist on earth. They never talk about the nations good...It is always about the black community. Show me one other race that is that self absorbed. They are the true racist. They look out only for blacks and care nothing about others. I find the Black music awards and the thousands of other racist thingys...Hilarious

And I still say...Show me one black culture that has moved beyond barbarism..

I have to add my two penneth here.You can replace the word "black" in the above quote to "average American" or "average Brit" or average anybody. Most people per se only give a shit about there own agendas. Being black has fuck all to do with it. Real ignorance and barbarism stems from the belief that your culture is superior to everybody elses. We are all racist in that regard, even if you don't want to freely admit it.And for those of you that say" I can't be recist because I support a local black community in their struggle with blah blah blah", half the time that is out of guilt and insecurity,and is patronising to the community in question.All of us are inherently discriminatory, it takes an enlightened soul to realise it and accept it.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 16, 2010 11:10 AM (P)

Still haven't seen an honest reply to the question posed.

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Still haven't seen an honest reply to the question posed.

I've just given an honest reply. Fact of the matter is, you can't. Because to try and prove otherwise would be a lie!!And when I say "you",I mean "anybody".

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:32 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Still haven't seen an honest reply to the question posed.

To clarify my original answer, if you want to prove you're not racist, don't be racist. I originally snarked "stop being racist", but that doesn't prove one to not be racist. Not being racist in the first place is a good start.

Can you PROVE you aren't racist? Doubtful. All you can do is try, and some around here are too intellectually lazy and challenged to even put forth the effort.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

PEACEKEEPER

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:43 PM (P)

I don't think it's a case of intellect, Kwicko.I think it is more sensible to say, "I am human, and thus by my very nature, I am prone to discrimination against others who don't follow my way of thinking". What will make us a more progressive human is to understand that life flows easier if we just keep those opinions to ourselves and carry on with our own way of life and let them do theirs.We can all try to lessen the offense we cause other people, but it will never ever change the fact that we will still privately discriminate.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

SIGNYM

Friday, July 16, 2010 12:49 PM (P)

Quote:
How do I prove Im NOT racist?

By not CONSTANTLY referring to race? By not denying the fact of continuing racism against blacks? By not almost always referring to "blacks" in negative terms? By not referring to, or thinking of, blacks as the white man's burden?

"Some of my best friends are (fill in the blank) " is the oldest defense of racism/ sexism/ homophobia invented, and therefore not persuasive.

BTW- some of my best friends are white, and I married a white dude, so I guess I'm not a racist either.

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 2:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
I don't think it's a case of intellect, Kwicko.I think it is more sensible to say, "I am human, and thus by my very nature, I am prone to discrimination against others who don't follow my way of thinking". What will make us a more progressive human is to understand that life flows easier if we just keep those opinions to ourselves and carry on with our own way of life and let them do theirs.We can all try to lessen the offense we cause other people, but it will never ever change the fact that we will still privately discriminate.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Thanks for that, PK. Good points, all. And yes, I *DO* think we all have our various prejudices; I know I have mine. The point is that our prejudices are OUR problem, and we shouldn't externalize them and make them OTHER PEOPLES' problem.

We can recognize our prejudices, and question them, without celebrating them and embracing them. They exist, like many vices, but that doesn't mean it's GOOD that they exist, or that we should be proud of them.

When I say it's intellectually lazy to just dismiss these things out of hand, I'm referring to folks who would rather say, "I don't like black people, so they better stay out of my neighborhood" instead of saying, "I'm not comfortable around black people, and I need to think about that and see if it's rational for me to feel that way." One of those attitudes requires thought and introspection; the other just throws the onus on "the other". Both have racism inherent in them, though, but one of them is actively TRYING to confront and question it. The other embraces it.

If I'm going to have my prejudices, I'd rather spend time questioning them rather than embracing them as "fact".

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KANEMAN

Friday, July 16, 2010 3:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:

I am not, nor should you. Black people are the most racist on earth. They never talk about the nations good...It is always about the black community. Show me one other race that is that self absorbed. They are the true racist. They look out only for blacks and care nothing about others. I find the Black music awards and the thousands of other racist thingys...Hilarious

And I still say...Show me one black culture that has moved beyond barbarism..

I have to add my two penneth here.You can replace the word "black" in the above quote to "average American" or "average Brit" or average anybody. Most people per se only give a shit about there own agendas. Being black has fuck all to do with it. Real ignorance and barbarism stems from the belief that your culture is superior to everybody elses. We are all racist in that regard, even if you don't want to freely admit it.And for those of you that say" I can't be recist because I support a local black community in their struggle with blah blah blah", half the time that is out of guilt and insecurity,and is patronising to the community in question.All of us are inherently discriminatory, it takes an enlightened soul to realise it and accept it.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Bullshit. You can't replace "black" with "average American" and have it still be true. Average Americans are a mixed lot. Blacks self segregate. Other groups do not. Take tel mundo, it may be in a different language than many Average Americans speak, however if you watch it for any length of time you will see droves of whites and blacks along with Latins. Every day you will see interviews with whites and blacks be it a baseball player, musician, politician, etc...Now contrast that with BET. You wouldn't even know whites existed. Everything is black this and black that.

Now as far as Geographical advantage that is a joke. Take Haiti-Dominican Rep. Same island. Haiti was founded about the same time the US was and have shown no ability to create a civilized culture(unless you think living in huts and raping 12yr old girls is the definition of civil), but just over the border is a non-black culture that has left the Haitians in the dark.

Take South Africa, far more civilized and modern than other country all around them. Arabs and Indians seem to have done just fine in their sandbox, relative to blacks.

Show me ONE civilized all Black society. Without outside help they do not move beyond barbarism.

Then look around the world to non-black cultures that they have assimilated into. They are always on the bottom rung in every country....Evolution is a bitch.

KANEMAN

Friday, July 16, 2010 3:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Kane, whether one group has had the right combination of geographic good fortune, and social pressure, to move past barbarism is not on point. It is, however, an echo of the white man's burden.

Condemning african civilization for its relative lack of development (which colonialism must play some role in) does nothing to further a frank discussion about hereditary differences and our racial hang ups.

I say this as a racially callous asshole.

See above post on Geographical nonsense.
Colonialism? You have to be kidding. Look at all the nations on earth that were under colonial rule, be it US, S. America, India....the list is endless, that have developed and created a civilized nation. The one difference in any of these countries is skin color. Don't feel bad beast....Evolution is not your fault. Show me the data to disprove this. I can post dozens of studies that support my claim. Scientists have always struggled with publishing their findings racial differences(they are endless) in fear of the results being used in a bigoted way. truth is truth.

STORYMARK

Friday, July 16, 2010 3:51 PM (P)

Of course, Tea Party figurehead and totally not-racist Mark Williams responded to charges of racism.... with a big old racist screed.

Quote:
Dear Mr. Lincoln

We Colored People have taken a vote and decided that we don't cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!

In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the 'tea party movement'.

The tea party position to "end the bailouts" for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn't that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.

And the ridiculous idea of "reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government." What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government "stop the out of control spending." Again, they directly target Colored People. That means we Colored People would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.

Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government "stop raising our taxes." That is outrageous! How will we Colored People ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?

Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.

Sincerely

Precious Ben Jealous, Tom's Nephew National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Head Colored Person

Now, I don't think ALL tea parties are racists - but a lot of them are, and if the rank and file are comfortable putting open racists up as their leaders, they don't get to whine when people assume they share the views of those they allow to speak on their behalf.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Friday, July 16, 2010 3:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Niki,

You can post all the pics and links you want, but all the circumstantial, suspect and irrelevant "evidence" you toss out, there's still nothing that ties the Tea Party and its platform to anything remotely being " racist ".

Leave the true racism to the professionals....

Color me completely unsurprised that Raptard cannot see the difference between the satire present in this picture as is mocks those who made a big deal of the fist bump, and equating it with the witch-doctor pics.

A world class head-in-the-sand moron, Rappy is. of

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:20 PM (P)

I don't feel bad, Kane; I don't ever feel anything. But I am anxious for you to follow your comments to their logical conclusion. I could be convinced by your shrewd reasoning, and bold use of facts, that black people are relatively inferior and un-evolved.

Can't for the life of me understand why anyone would accuse you of racism.

NIKI2

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:21 PM (P)

Gawd, Story, that is absolutely sick...and ironically shows every fallacy those in the Tea Party who are racist actually believe. I agree with those who said that if the Tea Party accepts leaders who are overtly racist, they have to accept responsibility for being charged as racist. It's the LEADERS who are supposed to represent a movement; therefore the leaders reflect the message.

Quote:
I think it is more sensible to say, "I am human, and thus by my very nature, I am prone to discrimination against others who don't follow my way of thinking". What will make us a more progressive human is to understand that life flows easier if we just keep those opinions to ourselves and carry on with our own way of life and let them do theirs.We can all try to lessen the offense we cause other people, but it will never ever change the fact that we will still privately discriminate.

I agree wholeheartedly. I KNOW I have prejudices--they're not based on race, but a number of other things. I make the effort not to act on or speak about them because I know they're MINE, so not necessarily valid...but I also know it seeps through. I don't know if I can ever change them, but I try not to be overt...all I can do is try. I don't know how to get rid of them, I honestly don't.

I'm VERY prejudiced against organized religions when the results are negative
I'm prejudiced againts "sport" hunters.
I'm prejdiced against salespersons who speaking Spanish to each other while I'm trying to purchase something.
I'm prejudiced against neocons and high RWAs.
I'm prejudiced against people who treat children and pets as possessions or abuse them in any way.
I'm prejudiced against people who enjoy being mean.

I know there are more, and I know I fail miserably at keeping it to myself, and I know concerning some that I have no strong DESIRE to try and get rid of the prejudice. But at least I know I TRY (except places like here

) not to take it out on them (well, except people who abuse children or animals...)

Trying to deny we have prejudice just shows how un-self-aware we are; everyone does have them.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

MINCINGBEAST

Friday, July 16, 2010 4:22 PM (P)

I don't feel bad, Kane; I don't ever feel anything. But I am anxious for you to follow your comments to their logical conclusion. I could be convinced by your shrewd reasoning, and mastery of social sciences, that black people are relatively inferior and un-evolved.

Can't for the life of me understand why anyone would accuse you of racism, or why you'd object.

KWICKO

Friday, July 16, 2010 8:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Of course, Tea Party figurehead and totally not-racist Mark Williams responded to charges of racism.... with a big old racist screed.

Quote:
Dear Mr. Lincoln

We Colored People have taken a vote and decided that we don't cotton to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!

In fact we held a big meeting and took a vote in Kansas City this week. We voted to condemn a political revival of that old abolitionist spirit called the 'tea party movement'.

The tea party position to "end the bailouts" for example is just silly. Bailouts are just big money welfare and isn't that what we want all Coloreds to strive for? What kind of racist would want to end big money welfare? What they need to do is start handing the bail outs directly to us coloreds! Of course, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is the only responsible party that should be granted the right to disperse the funds.

And the ridiculous idea of "reduce[ing] the size and intrusiveness of government." What kind of massa would ever not want to control my life? As Coloreds we must have somebody care for us otherwise we would be on our own, have to think for ourselves and make decisions!

The racist tea parties also demand that the government "stop the out of control spending." Again, they directly target Colored People. That means we Colored People would have to compete for jobs like everybody else and that is just not right.

Perhaps the most racist point of all in the tea parties is their demand that government "stop raising our taxes." That is outrageous! How will we Colored People ever get a wide screen TV in every room if non-coloreds get to keep what they earn? Totally racist! The tea party expects coloreds to be productive members of society?

Mr. Lincoln, you were the greatest racist ever. We had a great gig. Three squares, room and board, all our decisions made by the massa in the house. Please repeal the 13th and 14th Amendments and let us get back to where we belong.

Sincerely

Precious Ben Jealous, Tom's Nephew National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Head Colored Person

Now, I don't think ALL tea parties are racists - but a lot of them are, and if the rank and file are comfortable putting open racists up as their leaders, they don't get to whine when people assume they share the views of those they allow to speak on their behalf.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Beautiful, Story. I'd been wondering if anyone was going to post that. Thanks for doing so!

And yes, I'm sure he doesn't speak for ALL tea-baggers. Just a large portion of them.

I mean, where are the tea-baggers telling him to knock that shit off? He's also the guy who likes to refer to Muslims as "monkeys" and tells them to "swing down from your tree with your tail and join the bipeds".

But no, he's not AT ALL racist, is he?

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KPO

Friday, July 16, 2010 10:11 PM (P)

Quote:
BTW- some of my best friends are white, and I married a white dude, so I guess I'm not a racist either.

I thought you were Hungarian(?) - just on one side of the family...?

It's not personal. It's just war.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, July 16, 2010 10:59 PM (P)

To the original question:

How Can I Prove I'm Not A Racist?

Simple, really.

Do whatever the lib/progs/dems tell you, never speak out of turn, and always remember...

Never think for yourself.

KPO

Friday, July 16, 2010 11:19 PM (P)

Quote:
I can post dozens of studies that support my claim. Scientists have always struggled with publishing their findings racial differences

Go for it. As I understood it (and read recently) most scientists regard racial theories as unsupported.

Remember civilisation is a type of culture, as is barbarism... Do you have proof that genetics is a factor (and the predominant one)? Specifically have there been genes identified for intelligence/compassion/whatever you deem necessary to civilisation, that are missing in black people?

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 16, 2010 11:55 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:I've just given an honest reply. Fact of the matter is, you can't. Because to try and prove otherwise would be a lie!!And when I say "you",I mean "anybody".

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Discrimination and racism aren't synonymous. They have different meanings.

PEACEKEEPER

Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:I've just given an honest reply. Fact of the matter is, you can't. Because to try and prove otherwise would be a lie!!And when I say "you",I mean "anybody".

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Discrimination and racism aren't synonymous. They have different meanings.

Semantics Rappy!!. And pedantic on your part.My point applies to either definition,so your reply to it, is invalid.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:27 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:Semantics Rappy!!. And pedantic on your part.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Nothing semantical about it , in the least. Far too often , folks will use the wrong words, lumping them in together with a usual suspects, so as to try to multiply their impact, when all they're doing is repeating crap their heard others say, while not actually thinking about what it is they're saying.

Like when folks say ATM machine, when ATM itself stands for Automatic Teller Machine.

THINK about what it is you're saying.

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
I can post dozens of studies that support my claim. Scientists have always struggled with publishing their findings racial differences

Go for it. As I understood it (and read recently) most scientists regard racial theories as unsupported.

Remember civilisation is a type of culture, as is barbarism... Do you have proof that genetics is a factor (and the predominant one)? Specifically have there been genes identified for intelligence/compassion/whatever you deem necessary to civilisation, that are missing in black people?

It's not personal. It's just war.

kpo, You must be kidding. Start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

The culture of the age that we live in is founded on a lie: racial egalitarianism. It is an article of faith in the West that all racial differences in abilities and personality stem from environmental, rather than biological, factors.

This dogma has been conventional wisdom among the Western elites since 1950, when the United Nations published its “Statement on Race,” which declared: “There is no proof that the groups of mankind differ in their intelligence or temperament. The scientific evidence indicates that the range of mental capacities in all ethnic groups is the same…. Genetic differences are not of importance in determining the social and cultural differences between different groups of Homo sapiens.” Link, p. 102.

In succeeding years this belief has entrenched itself. A 2003 documentary on PBS, entitled Race: The Power of an Illusion, expressed a view that is more or less entirely unchallenged today in the media and most of the academy: race is a myth constructed by whites to justify colonialism and slavery. The documentary urged viewers to take an environmentalist view of racial differences:

Try a paradigm shift. Every time the mind gropes toward the seemingly evident—that, say, black people are better at sports, or Asians at math and music—deconstruct it. Look for the social reasons, the economic reasons, the cultural reasons why these stereotypes only seem to hold true.1

So crucial is this lie to our society, and so weak the empirical support for it, that Western universities must silence those who contradict it. Two cases of such silencing have occurred over the last two years. After Frank Ellis, a lecturer in Russian and Slavonic studies at Leeds University in Britain, stated his belief in the reality of racial differences in the student newspaper, the university and local political elite immediately began calling for his dismissal. One local politician called Ellis’s views “narrow-minded, intellectually bankrupt, morally reprehensible nonsense.” He eventually chose early retirement after the university began disciplinary proceedings against him. A similar fate befell Australian professor Andrew Fraser after he declared his race realist views.
Race Differences in Intelligence
Buy this book from Amazon.com

The heart of race realism is recognizing this lie for what it is. Research on differences between the behavior of whites and blacks has decisively refuted the environmentalist view. Indeed, at least a large school, and perhaps even a majority, of specialists in the study of intelligence believe that the black-white gap in IQ is rooted in biology. There is also powerful evidence that blacks and whites differ innately in other respects, including sexual behavior and ability to defer gratification.

This article focuses on differences between whites and blacks because these differences have received the greatest amount of attention from scholars, not because they are the only, or even necessarily the most important, racial differences. Black-white differences are thus the best test of the validity of the innatist and environmentalist perspectives. Given the dominant role that genes play in determining behavior, it is likely that many of the differences among the cultures of the world have biological roots.
The Power of Genes

There is no denying that racia

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
BTW- some of my best friends are white, and I married a white dude, so I guess I'm not a racist either.

I thought you were Hungarian(?) - just on one side of the family...?

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO, try this one...

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org/TaxonomicConstruct.pdf

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:59 AM (P)

Somewhere between 200,000 and 140,000 years ago, anatomically modern humans emerged in Africa and began their migration into the far corners of Europe and Asia. Naturally, different challenges and environments placed different evolutionary pressures on those who left and those who stayed behind. This resulted in a split between African and non-African humans approximately 110,000 years ago. Further environmental pressures resulted in yet another division, that between Caucasian and Mongoloid, approximately 41,000 years ago.

There were great differences in living conditions between Africa and Eurasia, differences which played a vital role in racial differentiation. While African life wasn't always a bed of roses, it was considerably easier than in the North. Between seeds, nuts, tubers and fruit, some type of edible plant material was available year round. Especially during the dry season, animals approaching watering holes could be easily ambushed and thrown on the cook fire. Comparatively little in the way of advanced planning was required for survival.

On the edges of the Northern ice sheets, plant material, if available at all could be found for only a few short months out of the year. Large game animals tended to move in vast annual migration patterns. Those who lacked foresight, who could not plan ahead, who could not delay gratification in the interest of personal and group survival, did not live. Nature, ruthless on the glacier's edge, selected for intelligence and cooperation.

The effects of this differential evolution are with us today. Numerous studies (Michael 1988, Montagu 1960, Beals 1984, Rushton 1993, etc.) have shown a consistent 9%-10% smaller cranial capacity in Negroes as compared to Caucasians. Other studies have found a direct correlation between cranial capacity and measured intelligence (Osborne 1992, Broman 1987, Rushton 1992). African-Americans average 15 IQ points lower than Caucasians, while pure Africans average 25 IQ points lower (Shuey 1966, Broman 1987, Lynn 1991, Owen 1989).

Rushton (1995) cites numerous studies which suggest sharply different social strategies between the races. The so-called "R-Strategy" is typical in Negro society both in Africa and around the world. Characteristics include a high birth rate coupled with a distinct lack of parental care. Offspring reach physical maturity fairly rapidly and generally begin sexual experimentation at a relatively early age. Monogamy is often the exception rather than the rule. The level of social organization is low, and, not surprisingly, Black countries tend to have the highest rates of both AIDS and violent crime in the world. It should be noted that, in the United States, African-Americans comprise approximately 12% of the population, while, according to FBI statistics, they commit 70% of the violent crime.

The "K-Strategy," observed in Caucasian and Mongoloid cultures, takes pretty much the opposite course. Parents have fewer offspring, but invest more effort in their care, resulting in a lower rate of infant mortality. Children mature more slowly but, as we observed earlier, use that slower maturation in part to develop higher potential intelligence. Family units tend to be more stable, and both social organization and altruism are important factors in family, ethnic and national life.

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:00 AM (P)

This was published in the wall street journal...that's a lot of names

http://www.cpsimoes.net/artigos/bell_mainstr.html

QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:23 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
This was published in the wall street journal...that's a lot of names

http://www.cpsimoes.net/artigos/bell_mainstr.html

Kaneman,
This subject is far too taboo. While in college I did a paper on the "Bell Curve" and almost got myself thrown out.

Yes, That there are racial differences in intelligence is fact. (Anyone who claims otherwise is either uninformed or purposely ignorant. The environment argument has been debunked by every study every time). I'll give you that. The findings on racial differences have been covered up for a variety of reasons. Bigots like you use this for selfish reasons. Why worry about 15 basis points? Is the black guy down the street any less HUMAN than you? What is your point? Want to kill all non-whites? Of course not. So why bother discussing it.

Edit. Kaneman. I just realized you did not start this thread.

PEACEKEEPER

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:Semantics Rappy!!. And pedantic on your part.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Nothing semantical about it , in the least. Far too often , folks will use the wrong words, lumping them in together with a usual suspects, so as to try to multiply their impact, when all they're doing is repeating crap their heard others say, while not actually thinking about what it is they're saying.

Like when folks say ATM machine, when ATM itself stands for Automatic Teller Machine.

THINK about what it is you're saying.

I have THOUGHT about it, which is why I chose to use the word "Discriminatory" instead of "Racist". You know exactly what it is that I am trying to say, but you are just using "Semantics" to make a stubborn point.So I will make it easy for you.We are all, in some form or another, INHERENTLY RACIST.What makes us progressive and more intelligent than the overt proponents of this, is to accept our failings and ATTEMPT to reconcile those thoughts with some enlightened civility.I use the word "Discriminatory" simply because it sounds less offensive.So I am saying that I probably accept that I am a racist, but I don't like it and try to compensate by applying some educated logic and reason so as to not offend my fellow man.So yes, you are being pedantic and my argument still stands. As for using the "Redundant noun" argument(ATM), I fail to see the relevance.We all do that as well. It is purely a technical point on English grammar. It has nothing to do with this argument.As I said,INVALID.
You cannot prove that you are not a racist OR discriminatory. Because all of us are both.We can only TRY to temper ourselves so as to achieve self awareness and compromise on that fact. Now does THAT answer your original question?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

KWICKO

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:Semantics Rappy!!. And pedantic on your part.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

Nothing semantical about it , in the least. Far too often , folks will use the wrong words, lumping them in together with a usual suspects, so as to try to multiply their impact, when all they're doing is repeating crap their heard others say, while not actually thinking about what it is they're saying.

Like when folks say ATM machine, when ATM itself stands for Automatic Teller Machine.

THINK about what it is you're saying.

Now go back and proofread yourself. THINK about what you're typing. If you're going to lecture others on words and claim that words matter, you really should see to your own house first. Your posts are generally a word salad of unrelated and incorrect wording ("a usual suspects", "what so ever", "crap their heard others say", etc.).

You really are in no position to lecture anyone on... well, ANYTHING - especially grammar and vocabulary!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:54 AM (P)

KaneyCheney: Keep going - you said you could provide DOZENS of studies. Let's see 'em. Post 'em all up, all the dozens you can find!

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:26 PM (P)

The whole "Tea Party is Racist" this is an absurd propagandistic position. The goal is to discourage good sane people from joining the tea party.

The best thing to do about it is laugh at it. Which is what it deserves. Then point out how thoroughly racist the opposition is, and how long this has been true for, and how it will always be true.

I think getting defensive about it is a bad idea. You just lend credence to a completely non-credible position. It reminds me a little bit of how AIPAC paints any opposition to their agenda as anti-semetism, rather than political disagreement. People on the left who are trying to paint the tea party as racist are completely aware that it isn't true, but my experience life long is that people with a political goal don't tend to care whether something is true or not, they care what effect it will have.

Personally, I'm more concerned that corporate corruption is creeping into the Tea Party, and should be nipped in the bud.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:00 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The whole "Tea Party is Racist" this is an absurd propagandistic position. The goal is to discourage good sane people from joining the tea party.

Which is EXACTLY the goal of saying idiotic things like "Obama's a Socialist!"

Quote:

The best thing to do about it is laugh at it. Which is what it deserves. Then point out how thoroughly racist the opposition is, and how long this has been true for, and how it will always be true.

Which is also the best way to deal with tea-baggers. Laugh at them and point out how thoroughly racist they are, and how long this has been true for, and how it will always be true.

Quote:

Personally, I'm more concerned that corporate corruption is creeping into the Tea Party, and should be nipped in the bud.

*IS* creeping? Try *HAS* creeped, in that corporate corruption is what helped to found and spread the Tea Parties. I applaud your efforts to "nip it in the bud". Next maybe you can get Republicans to be financially responsible!

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NIKI2

Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:32 PM (P)

DT, sometimes you are almost funny, you're so off the wall. It's weird. Denying racism--even if you just want to limit it to the LEADERS of the Tea Party, those who are financing it, is amazing. I already put up MORE than enough actual material to show how wrong you are, so I won't bother to argue the point.

By the way, who is it who owns the Wall Street Journal again?

Crappy, Mike took all the fun out of me pointing out that, in a post about gramatics, you blew it so completely it make me smile. Amazing.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:42 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
KaneyCheney: Keep going - you said you could provide DOZENS of studies. Let's see 'em. Post 'em all up, all the dozens you can find!

Every post I posted has the study noted. Do your own homework. I've already done mine..Or live in denial with your head up your ass.

KPO

Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:18 PM (P)

Quote:
kpo, You must be kidding. Start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

With a wikipedia article that is both factually disputed, and accused of systemic bias, hmm. And the article you cut and pasted underneath was not the wikipedia article. Post opinion pieces if you want but please cite them. I note again the scientific concensus, from one of the links in the wiki article(4):

Quote:
"Several culturally-based explanations of the Black/White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."

Particularly lacking is what I specifically asked for, a proven genetic link to all your racial theories: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Molecular_genetics

Quote:
"A 2005 literature review article on the links between race and intelligence in American Psychologist stated that no gene has been shown to be linked to intelligence, "so attempts to provide a compelling genetic link of race to intelligence are not feasible at this time".[98] Several candidate genes have been proposed to have a relationship with intelligence.[99][100] However, a review of candidate genes for intelligence published in 2009 by Deary et al. failed to find evidence of an association between these genes and general intelligence, stating "there is still almost no replicated evidence concerning the individual genes, which have variants that contribute to intelligence differences".[69]"

So in the absence of strong genetic evidence, what do you have? Data on behaviour and intelligence that cannot be totally separated from culture and environment. This would be why science on the whole is sceptical of your position.

As I pointed out to you before, culture has a large (and long established) effect, remember this article on 'minority culture' I posted before? http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-inferiorIQ.htm

Quote:
"...compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants."

One last point, a commentary on some of the scientists pursuing the racial research (their names pop up frequently throughout your articles), and the Pioneer fund that supports them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Fund#Criticism

Quote:
Criticism
In addition to the funding and the connections to persons and organizations mentioned above, there are reported links between various past contributors to the science journal Mankind Quarterly, which receives funding from Pioneer, and Nazism. Italian biologist and Mankind Quarterly associate editor Corrado Gini authored an article titled "The Scientific Basis of Fascism" and was once a scientific advisor to Italian leader Benito Mussolini. The editorial board member Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer was Josef Mengele's mentor before and during the Holocaust and is suspected of being his collaborator.[25][26][27] The already mentioned Roger Pearson was a former editor.

Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer, circa 1920s–1940s, measures twin girls as part of an anthropometric study of heredity.The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), a nonprofit organization, lists the Pioneer Fund as a hate group citing the fund's history, its funding of race and intelligence research, and its connections with allegedly racist individuals.[24][28]

The Center for New Community, a human rights advocacy organization, mentioned the Pioneer Fund in an article on their website. They characterize the Pioneer Fund as "a white supremacist foundation that specializes in funding 'science' dedicated to demonstrating white intellectual and moral superiority." They dr

KANEMAN

Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:27 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
kpo, You must be kidding. Start here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

With a wikipedia article that is both factually disputed, and accused of systemic bias, hmm. And the article you cut and pasted underneath was not the wikipedia article. Post opinion pieces if you want but please cite them.

I note again the scientific concensus, from one of the links in the wiki article(4):

"Several culturally-based explanations of the Black/White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."

Particularly lacking is what I specifically asked for, a proven genetic link to all your racial theories: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Molecular_genetics

"A 2005 literature review article on the links between race and intelligence in American Psychologist stated that no gene has been shown to be linked to intelligence, "so attempts to provide a compelling genetic link of race to intelligence are not feasible at this time".[98] Several candidate genes have been proposed to have a relationship with intelligence.[99][100] However, a review of candidate genes for intelligence published in 2009 by Deary et al. failed to find evidence of an association between these genes and general intelligence, stating "there is still almost no replicated evidence concerning the individual genes, which have variants that contribute to intelligence differences".[69]"

So in the absence of strong genetic evidence, what do you have? Data on behaviour and intelligence that cannot be totally separated from culture and environment. This would be why science on the whole is sceptical of your position.

As I pointed out to you before, culture has a large (and long established) effect, remember this article on 'minority culture' I posted before? http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-inferiorIQ.htm

"...compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants."

One last point, a commentary on some of the scientists pursuing the racial research (their names pop up frequently throughout your articles), and the Pioneer fund that supports them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Fund#Criticism

Quote:
Criticism
In addition to the funding and the connections to persons and organizations mentioned above, there are reported links between various past contributors to the science journal Mankind Quarterly, which receives funding from Pioneer, and Nazism. Italian biologist and Mankind Quarterly associate editor Corrado Gini authored an article titled "The Scientific Basis of Fascism" and was once a scientific advisor to Italian leader Benito Mussolini. The editorial board member Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer was Josef Mengele's mentor before and during the Holocaust and is suspected of being his collaborator.[25][26][27] The already mentioned Roger Pearson was a former editor.

Otmar Freiherr von Verschuer, circa 1920s–1940s, measures twin girls as part of an anthropometric study of heredity.The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), a nonprofit organization, lists the Pioneer Fund as a hate group citing the fund's history, its funding of race and intelligence research, and its connections with allegedly racist individuals.[24][28]

The Center for New Community, a human rights advocacy organization, mentioned the Pioneer Fund in an article on their website. They characterize the Pioneer Fund as "a white supremacist foundation that specializes in funding 'science' dedicated to demonstrating white intellectual and moral superiority." They draw parti

KIRKULES

Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:17 PM (P)

There is nothing inherently racist in studying what factors make one group of people more successful than others if the goal is to help those that have been economically and socially left behind. The problem I see is that IQ tests and racist interpretations of the resulting Bell Curve do not get to the truth of what the statistics show. Assuming you could account for socioeconomic status and education(which is not possible in my opinion), there are many different ways of looking at the meaning of average intelligence. In an ideal IQ test, education wouldn't even be a factor, but in reality the critical thinking skills developed in the education process do make people effectively more intelligent. That's not to say that those skills can not be learned independently of formal education. One problem that makes intelligence so difficult to measure is the fact that the difference between the smartest normal human and the dumbest is very small. I person of average intelligence who receives an excellent education will to all appearances be more intelligent than an uneducated genius. Just because the average intelligence of a race appears at a low point on the Bell Curve says nothing about who is the smartest and the dumbest. One hundred percent of the top million smartest people on Earth could be of one race and that race on average could still fall at the lower end of the Bell Curve. Most likely the groups that fall on the low end of the curve are just not trained to use their brains for critical thinking from a young age and therefor are disadvantaged for their entire lives.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:26 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Now go back and proofread yourself. THINK about what you're typing. If you're going to lecture others on words and claim that words matter, you really should see to your own house first. Your posts are generally a word salad of unrelated and incorrect wording ("a usual suspects", "what so ever", "crap their heard others say", etc.).

You really are in no position to lecture anyone on... well, ANYTHING - especially grammar and vocabulary!

Those too cowardly to discuss ideas, and instead fuss over typos and grammatical errors on message boards only go to show just how juvenile their are, as well as how intellectually vacant are their arguments.

That you go back and put in words into sentences already posted, so as to gain some sort of meaningless 'victory',proves your insecurity.

The phony "racist" label the naaLcp wants to place on the Tea Party is worse than crying wolf. The race baiters have sadly resorted to this sort of nonsense as a means of dismissing any argument they don't agree with and can't argue against.

Quote:

Texas County Official Sees Race in Term 'Black Hole'

DALLAS — What do "black hole," "angel food cake," and "devil's food cake" have in common?

They're all racist terms, says a Dallas County, Texas, official.

A county commissioners' meeting this week over traffic tickets turned into a tense discussion over race when one commissioner said the county's collections office was like a certain astronomical phenomenon.

"It sounds like Central Collections has become a black hole," Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield, who is white, said during the Monday meeting.

One black official demanded an apology, and Commissioner John Wiley Price, who also is black, said that type of language is unacceptable.

At the meeting, Mayfield said he intended his comments to be taken in the context of the scientific meaning, and became upset that he was being misunderstood.

In astronomy, the term black hole refers to a star that has collapsed upon itself, creating something so dense and small that it does not have any physical properties besides a gravitational force so great that even light cannot escape its pull.

Later, Price told MyFOXdfw.com that he believed it and other terms were racist.
"So if it's 'angel food cake,' it's white. If it's 'devil's food cake,' it's black. If you're the 'black sheep of the family,' then you gotta be bad, you know. 'White sheep,' you're okay. You know?" Price said.

Price said people should watch their words when it comes to stereotypes.

"I think people should always be careful. You know, I'm okay if I'm 'bartering' with you. ... But if I try to 'Jew you down,' Oooooh. Is that racist? I thought it meant the same thing? No, maybe it doesn't."

The world-renowned physicist Stephen Hawking might have a solution to the problem over perception of the astronomical term. He refers to the phenomenon as "a singularity." [/quo

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380143,00.html

Of course, Price omits the financial / marketing term of " being in the black ", which means profitable, or not in debt.

See how absurd and petty this argument can get ? And the naacLp is guilty of dragging us all down to this mindlessly pointless game.

KWICKO

Saturday, July 17, 2010 6:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Those too cowardly to discuss ideas, and instead fuss over typos and grammatical errors on message boards only go to show just how juvenile their are, as well as how intellectually vacant are their arguments.

Ah. So you admit just how juvenile "your" are, as well as how intellectually vacant are your arguments, since you felt the need to go into a lecture in sophistry and semantics towards another, eh? How very typically cowardly of you, at least according to your own rules of behavior!

Quote:

That you go back and put in words into sentences already posted, so as to gain some sort of meaningless 'victory',proves your insecurity.

Yes, it IS sad indeed that you feel the need to alter quotes and clip out inconvenient words in order to try to "prove" your point, when in point of fact you HAVE no point at all!

Quote:

The phony "racist" label the naaLcp wants to place on the Tea Party is worse than crying wolf. The race baiters have sadly resorted to this sort of nonsense as a means of dismissing any argument they don't agree with and can't argue against.

And the phony "crying wolf" and "race baiting" labels you put on anyone who points out your racism, and the racism inherent in your tea-bagging friends, is just your way of dismissing any argument you don't agree with and can't argue against, and refuse to face. You're a coward of the worst kind, because you can't even face YOUR OWN PREJUDICES.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:01 PM (P)

kwickie

are you ever going to evolve beyond the argument style of a child ?

Seriously. Do you really get any sense of satisfaction in parroting back , with out any evidence or substantive examples to prove your pont ?

Oh,that's right, you have no point. You're just a sad, pathetic loser who lives to insult others on a message board.

PEACEKEEPER

Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:36 PM (P)

Rappy, was it not you that pulled me up on Semantics? Was it not you who brought up the use of The Redundant Noun? And in which part of your post did you indicate whether or not you think I answered your question or have expressed any indication to discuss it?
I appreciate that I am not a major contributor to these discussions;but when i do enter into a discussion I tend to make myself succinct and to the point and try to reply to the point with a reasonably informed and intelligent POV. Am i right in thinking that you haven't given me a serious reply because you cannot, in point of fact, debate with me because I am right.And BTW, I have no personal gripe with you on this matter;so please don't take this as a personal attack.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:55 PM (P)

Quote:
We are all, in some form or another, INHERENTLY RACIST.

I disagree. I see nothing in my "race" which indicates genetic superiority to other races. And that's what racism is... the inherent belief that one race is superior to all others , based on genetic qualities.

Quote:

What makes us progressive and more intelligent than the overt proponents of this, is to accept our failings and ATTEMPT to reconcile those thoughts with some enlightened civility.I use the word "Discriminatory" simply because it sounds less offensive.So I am saying that I probably accept that I am a racist, but I don't like it and try to compensate by applying some educated logic and reason so as to not offend my fellow man.So yes, you are being pedantic and my argument still stands. As for using the "Redundant noun" argument(ATM), I fail to see the relevance. We all do that as well. It is purely a technical point on English grammar. It has nothing to do with this argument.As I said,INVALID.
You cannot prove that you are not a racist OR discriminatory. Because all of us are both. We can only TRY to temper ourselves so as to achieve self awareness and compromise on that fact. Now does THAT answer your original question?

" Progressive". What a load of crap. I fail to see how humans have progressed all that much in the past 5,000 years.

Of course we all DISCRIMINATE, but so what ? That's not the same thing as being racist. We 'discriminate' on all manner of issues, from which sci-fi to watch to which fast food restaurant we choose. We discriminate on the appearance of others, and pre-judge on that count, based on what we've been told, on our experiences, etc...

The only point I'm making w/ regards to the redundant noun is that it's technically false. When you mean ATM, say ATM. When you mean bigoted, or sexist, say it, but don't say racist.

It's not identical, but still valid.

NIKI2

Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:26 PM (P)

Yes, the Wikipedia link isn’t at all persuasive, given it is prefaced by "The neutrality of this article is questioned because of systemic bias (April 2010”) and “This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page. (April 2010)”

So a disputed article in Wikipedia, which itself ADMITS “Several culturally-based explanations of the Black/White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available." and” However, a review of candidate genes for intelligence published in 2009 by Deary et al. failed to find evidence of an association between these genes and general intelligence, stating "there is still almost no replicated evidence concerning the individual genes, which have variants that contribute to intelligence differences", AS WELL AS questioning, in another article, the objectivity of the organization funding the study, is more credible than scientific findings? Your belief that “If they constantly have IQ's lower than whites and Asians all over the world. How can it be anything other than genetics” is YOUR belief, but that doesn't make it fact.

Try an excerpt from what KPO posted...actually READ IT, then tell me genetics has to be the cause, or even just read the underlined parts, they alone question your theory:

Quote:
On average, African-Americans score 7 to 15 points lower than European-Americans on IQ tests. Many conservatives believe this is because blacks are genetically inferior to whites. But liberals believe that the IQ gap is the result of nearly three centuries of slavery and yet another 130 years of segregation and institutionalized racism. Even the Civil Rights Act and affirmative action have not eliminated discrimination against blacks -- they've merely reduced it somewhat. The result of this discrimination is that a disproportionate percentage of blacks work at lower-paying jobs, live in poverty and squalor, lack health care and child care, and do not receive the quality of education and personal development available to richer members of society. All these deprivations work to suppress IQ and educational achievement in children during their critical developmental years.

Which viewpoint is correct? The answer becomes obvious when you compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.

In the U.S., both Korean and Japanese students score above average in IQ tests; many scholars agree that, genetically, they are about as close as two ethnic groups can get. But the Korean minority living in Japan scores much lower on IQ tests than the Japanese. Why? The Japanese are extremely racist towards Koreans; they view them as stupid and violent, and employ them only in the dirtiest and lowest-paying jobs. Tensions are so great between the two groups that violence often erupts in the form of riots.

In the U.S., Polish Jews arriving before 1910 were also perceived as stupid (for no other reason than they were accustomed to a different culture and spoke another language). So many "Pollock" jokes arose that Americans still tell them to this day, even if no one remembers why. The Polish Jews suffered heavy job discrimination and suspicion of criminality; not surprisingly, their children suffered low grades and IQ test scores. Today, of course, many Americans hold the opposite prejudice; Jews are viewed as the most brilliant of ethnic groups.

Please explain how that is possible, if it’s just genetics.

Kirk, that was excellent, and I agree on every point. As you can see above, so d

PEACEKEEPER

Saturday, July 17, 2010 9:46 PM (P)

Okay,let's see if we can come to some compromise.Perhaps,by your definition of Racism, I am not racist.I think I'm trying to come at you from a more sociological stance.I believe that we all believe ,in varied degrees, that our "culture" is behaviourally and intrinsically superior to somebody elses. I don't believe this is a genetic superiority, rather a cultural one. It just so happens, that the most far removed cultures from my own, are predominantly practised by populations of a different skin colour.So, by association and generalisation,it is natural to associate an alternate culture with a certain race.Unfortunately, MOST people will unwittingly transfer some of those cultural traits and assign them to coloured people who live in our own culture. I am not condoning this,I am trying merely to explain it.
All i am saying is, that no matter what your culture or genetics or environment;as humans, we are naturally inclined to dismiss anything that does not fit with us.
When i say "progressive", I mean those of us,(and I include myself) that accept this state as being natural and "progress" past this by questioning it and transcending it."Racists"(however you define it) are only recognised as so when they express their natural instincts. An enlightened, progressive person will accept they have these instincts, but will learn to temper them.
We are all "Racist" and we are all "Insular".But we only heap the term onto people who "Express the view in an overt and inflammatory manner"
As for "discriminatory", I think you are confusing tht with "discernment".Yes, of course we all like different sci-fi shows etc etc.But that is purely a matter of taste.We don't have any misunderstanding or intrinsic animosity to others who don't share those tastes.
Perhaps what I am really trying to say is that we are all discriminatory on a racial level to a certain degree.
Any middle ground here, Rappy?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NIKI2

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:08 PM (P)

I agree with a lot you said. But I still believe "discriminatory" or, if you will "nationalistic" applies better to what you are talking about. Culture. I have "discriminatory" feelings about the French, but they're the same "race" as I am. It's true that in most cases, skin color comes into it, but I do not think we are all "racists", I think your definition of racist is different. Does that make any sense?

Certainly "insular" fits perfectly, and I agree with most of what you said about different cultures and superiority and such. I just don't think the term "racist" applies.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

PEACEKEEPER

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:19 PM (P)

I certainly take your points, Niki.And yes, you do make sense.Perhaps i am confusing Racist with "Racialist". Maybe the definition itself is proving to be part of the problem. And i would hope that as a matter of personal integrity ,that people don't take my observations as being in any way offensive or inflammatory.That certainly isn't my intent.I try to have as much respect for my fellow earthlings, regardless of their race or culture.
I merely try to explain things as i personally see them. Regards.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

MAL4PREZ

Saturday, July 17, 2010 10:54 PM (P)

That's a good post, PK. I went into it ready to disagree, but I think you made your point well.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Perhaps what I am really trying to say is that we are all discriminatory on a racial level to a certain degree.
Any middle ground here, Rappy?

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

We discriminate, we prejudge... so yes, at a very basic physical ( racial ? - still not comfortable with that word, but I'll play along ) level, we are quick to pick up on visual differences which distinguish one group from another. It not only includes physical features, but the clothes we wear, the manner in which we speak, how we communicate ( via hand gestures, etc.. ) all sorts of things.

This was brought up ( man, I hate to even go here ) on what I think was the very first REAL WORLD, on MTV. Kevin, a black guy, and Julie, a white girl from the South, didn't exactly see eye to eye on some things. One key component was in how different each person acted while engaged in an argument. Kevin would get very loud ( from the perspective of Julie ) and stand very close to that person. In Julie's view, that crossed the line from "arguing " to intimidation. Kevin was simply doing what seemed normal to him, and wasn't overly trying to threaten anyone, but Julie saw the exact same thing through different eyes, and had quite a different take.

My point is, clearly we are quick to point out differences on a visual scale, but we also notice differences of culture as well. In fact, it's my personal view that culture goes further to distance people, even of like lineage , more than just race. From the Hutu and Tutsi tribes, to the Protestants and Catholics of N.Ireland, culture ( or religion, as it's practiced ) will pit same looking, same sounding, same damn near everything people against each other where otherwise it would seem they're pretty much the same.

How do we judge how advanced or " progressive" a culture is ? The Chinese were far more advanced than the Europeans for centuries. And the Egyptians predated the Greeks in all manner of technological prowess.... and yet many wrongly assume that mankind made some sort of quantum leap - when ? Only during the EUROPEAN Renaissance, as recent as a few hundred years ago.

Looking at a timeline of great human accomplishments, from art, to science and architecture, it's sorta laughable to think that white Europeans are the "height" of human evolution. Western European ancestors were likely living in huts or occupying caves when the Pyramids were being built. The Mongols were all but at western Europe's door step and ready to conquer the continent, until they called off their armies, and headed home. The halt came not due to some great defense by the Europeans, but from political infighting between the Mongols.

Anyway..... the idea that how much light one's skin reflects is any indicator of genetic superiority.... is, by all measure, absurd.

NIKI2

Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:59 PM (P)

I agree, Peacekeeper, I think we agree, it's just a case of semantics.

And you blow my mind, Raptor. That was a BEAUTIFUL post and I agree completely!

The Kevin and Julie example was an excellent one, and your points were eloquent and valid.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Sunday, July 18, 2010 12:07 AM (P)

Well, in defense of Western Europeans...

So it also depends on preservation of archeological artifacts and historical records.

My inclination is that all human beings are capable of technological achievement and artistic/creative wonders. There were definitely migration waves, and we can see this reflected in genetic subgroups. But I think it's not realistic to imagine groups left behind didn't continue to develop... Or that the first groups to migrate remained undeveloped.

Even in absence of archeological evidence, I suspect this is the case. As I noted previously, archeological evidence is easily destroyed or buried over time. Recent discoveries always seem to be about "such and such group was more advanced than previously thought," so my feeling is it's better to err on the side of overestimation. You're probably more likely to be right.

1 2 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE