Arizona Rep. Giffords shot, several wounded

POSTED BY: TheHappyTrader
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 24, 2024 14:52
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KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You and Rappy keep assigning me motives, positions, agendas, and opinions. Now you're going to get pissy when I return the favor?

So you have never said anything at all inflammatory regarding Palin or tea-partiers?

In this thread? Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...

Quote:

So much easier to dehumanize your opponent, is that about right?

You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right?

That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.

This Space For Rent!

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
In this thread? (nice caveat) Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...

Wow, that almost sounded like an answer to my question.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right? That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.

Don't have a horse, never said I did. That is just the present position you have assigned for me.

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
In this thread? (nice caveat) Well, I refer to them as teabaggers, because that's the name they chose themselves, not realizing it was a bit self-insulting, and I'm happy to oblige and call them what they wanted to be called...

Wow, that almost sounded like an answer to my question.
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
You'd certainly never stoop to such levels, right? That high horse you rode in on? Yeah, it's way over there now, and you're far too small to mount it again.

Don't have a horse, never said I did. That is just the present position you have assigned for me.

Well, that's the position you claim I've taken, eh?

This Space For Rent!

KANEMAN

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:32 PM (P)

I say fuck it. Shoot these liberals shoot em dead. There is only one way to win this war of principles...kill em all

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:37 PM (P)

Quote:
And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.

Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing. That's my last response to you for a couple of days. Maybe even until the weekend. Promise.

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Why do Lefties always go back to that cartoonish claim? No one is ever " wrong ", or someone with you disagree, they're a LIAR or DISHONEST.

I didn't know you were a lefty.

Quote:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?

This Space For Rent!

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:43 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.
Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing.

Or cheering on those who kill, like Rappy here.

This Space For Rent!

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
And you're jut as crazy as bin Laden and Charles Manson.
Really? Difference being, I'm not the one talking about killing. That's my last response to you for a couple of days. Maybe even until the weekend. Promise.

Man, you're easy. of course, I never said anything about killing anyone, now did I?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 6:58 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?

Well, he is. Was I wrong ? Nope.

And where'd I ever cheer for this AZ shooter nut case ? Oh, that's right, I NEVER DID.

Such things only occur in your mind, Kwickie.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

THEHAPPYTRADER

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:07 PM (P)

This is getting ridiculous, but I'm going to try and do a quick recap from when this thread turned for the worse. Sorry kwick, but I think it started with

Quote:
And it seems Rep. Gifford was on Sarah Palin's "Hit List" with a riflescope graphic targeted on her district.

So is there a connection?

Or is this guy a secret Muslim of some sort?

which was more than a little misleading. That didn't have to set things in a downward spiral but Rappy brilliantly responded with

Quote:
The war has begun.

Choose or perish.

which was outright hostile. I made my spiel, kwick and I argued, and eventually resolved that. NEWOLDBROWNCOAT was the first to take advantage of this tragedy for a political motivation

Quote:
I *D*I*D* think Arizona was one of those states that had a newly passed "open carry" law that was gonna reduce violent crime. An armed citizenry was gonna stop criminals with guns from shooting people.

Or maybe they kept it from being worse, made sure nobody but Democrats and liberal supporters got killed or wounded?

I find it ironic that something that blatant would attract less attention than kwicko's post. I guess it makes more than a little difference who does the posting. Signym responds with an unsurprisingly and blatantly hostile

Quote:
Fucking right-wing assholes.

despite the lack of information or evidence at the time. Rappy responds chose or perish... again...

There's some PN stuff here or there but I'm skipping that.

Wulf tell's everyone to calm down in a demeaning way, which unsurprisingly, only escalates things further, rappy adds

Quote:
The war you clowns are geeked up about there being, phonying up intent and culpability by showing Palin's POLITICAL strategy and assigning it meaning which it clearly did NOT have, and changing thread titles to suggest the most ridiculous, simply to project your political wet dreams.

which, minus the unnecessary insults, is dangerously close to true. Y'all have been changing the title and did offer up the Palin campaign strategy as if it were relevant. That's how it appeared anyway, but we can't be certain as to what your intentions were in posting it and there's no way to prove what you meant to accomplish with that, if anything, which y'all are quick to point out.

Still, Rappy did 'start it' far as hostilities go. Then it's basically bitch, bitch, bitch-bitch, bitch and Hero makes a remark that assumes Giffords is dead, which is kind of disappointing as it shows the partisan bullshit has already become more important than the facts. We've already written her off so we can focus on winning a pointless argument? Eventually real evidence and detective work will solve this for us. But I suppose conjecture is more fun? Then we get Signym's,

Quote:
He's in the far-right wing. Nuttier than a fruitcake like PN, but not so different from Wulf, who espouses violence at every opportunity. And Rappy, with his brilliant little statement about "choose and perish" belongs in the same bag of snakes.

So I gave back what the RWERz here have so generously provided: Intolerance, prejudice, idiocy, and just a whiff of threat. And I find, not surprisingly, that RWERz get all bent out of shape when what THEY do is reflected back at them. Can dish it out, can't take it. Get poked with a stick, and go into a frenzy of whining. Sheesh.

I'm not sure I've ever seen you post anything not hostile in RWED, that's certainly the case in this thread. But, most of y'all have been here a lot longer than I have, so there's a more than a fair chance you have a point I'm unaware of. Not the best way to make that point IMO...

more peeps bitching, then signym actually offers some information (granted not from the most reliable source) that might have something to do with Jared Loughner's motivations, so I guess I retract that statement. that post wasn't particularly hostile. I'm skeptical, and I suspect signym is too, but it's a nice little break from the left vs right bitching. Kwicko adds

[q

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:33 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

Or was that some OTHER Rappy who posted that "cartoonish claim"?

Well, he is. Was I wrong ? Nope.

So the President can't be "wrong", in your opinion, or someone with whom you disagree. He has to be "a god damn, mother fucking liar".

And you claim it's the left that does that, makes that claim. And you claim that in the very thread where you called Signy a "liar" (quoting your exact word there, sporto).

Quote:

And where'd I ever cheer for this AZ shooter nut case ? Oh, that's right, I NEVER DID.

No, you keep holding him up as an example. "The War has begun." "Choose or perish." "Choose AND perish." "Don't start something you don't want started."

Your meaning and implications are quite clear, as you say. (Hey, you love imparting meaning and intent to the words of others, so goose sauce = gander sauce, right?)

Quote:

Such things only occur in your mind, Kwickie.

And yours, it seems. Everything you accuse "the Left" of doing, you've done yourself, even in this one thread.

Now all you have to do to complete the hat trick is yell "Socialist" and "fuck you" and run away. That will pretty much complete your repertoire...

This Space For Rent!

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:36 PM (P)

Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...

Quote:
[about Kwicko's post]

...which I was happy to read, cause it's sometimes difficult to figure out exactly where he stands and what he's saying. This statement efficiently sums that up and I can't really disagree with it.

I appreciate that. Not sure why it's so hard to nail down what I believe or where I stand. I generally stand to the left of center, and I generally like to ask "...and THEN what?" I've long advocated having a Cabinet position for the "Department of And Then What?"

People like to live in black and white; they don't like to face the greys of reality. I'm the guy in the grey suit, battling the absolute. :)

This Space For Rent!

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:42 PM (P)

THT -

You actually said what I wanted, when I butchered the line from Ghostbusters.

" Choose AND Perish "

Choose OR Perish was what I posted, and I guess I was confusing that w/ the words Join or Die , under the Revolutionary flag....

The posted remark, which is far more inflammatory than my intended meaning, was suppose to add a bit of tongue in cheek humor to a dire situation...

My attempt failed miserably, which I will freely admit.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:43 PM (P)

Also, somebody tried to make the case that this might be a liberal attack, since Giffords is "in favor of tightening border security", as if immigration is something only hard-core right-wingers care about.

I'm not sure I know any liberals who want more open borders. Where we differ isn't on illegal immigration; it's on what to do about it, where to start, and what measures to take. Tightening the borders? Great. How? A wall? Okay, if I'm an enterprising Mexican, I'm building a ladder factory. Make a 20-foot wall, and I'll sell 21-foot ladders. You spent money; I made money.

This Space For Rent!

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:45 PM (P)

HAPPY, I'm all about discussing and I have bird-dogged down some of the most disingenuous counterpoints know to this board. But I draw the line when peeps threaten. I have sat on a friend's porch with a gun in my lap, waiting for a stalker to show up. Been in more than one dangerous and possibly life-threatening situation. Now, maybe its just me, but bringing that kind of shit to the board is inexcusable and near-unforgivable. I'm doing Rappy the significant courtesy of backing away and allowing him to do the same. Not good enuf for you?

CANTTAKESKY

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:58 PM (P)

Happy, that was a very nice summary.

However, I have to just tell you as an RWED old timer, it's a waste of time trying to get two warring sides to look at the escalation rationally once they have put on their war paint and done their war dance.

My rule as an RWED survivor: ignore the hostile posts. Lots of good stuff on this board. Just navigate past the shipwrecks and driftwood.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 9, 2011 7:59 PM (P)

What if...

KWICKO and SIGNYM are one and the same?

BYTEMITE

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:04 PM (P)

Happy is pretty new here, I don't think he recognizes these kinds of flamewars are common place and don't affect day-to-day functioning of the board much. Took me a while to learn this too.

I don't think he meant anything by it Sig. Didn't mean to defend any sorts of threats, and didn't mean to offend.

Glad to hear everyone is going to step back a little.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...

Not at all, sometimes I miss things kane and whozit post cause I skim over 'em figuring there isn't much substance.

Quote:
HAPPY, I'm all about discussing and I have bird-dogged down some of the most disingenuous counterpoints know to this board. But I draw the line when peeps threaten. I have sat on a friend's porch with a gun in my lap, waiting for a stalker to show up. Been in more than one dangerous and possibly life-threatening situation. Now, maybe its just me, but bringing that kind of shit to the board is inexcusable and near-unforgivable. I'm doing Rappy the significant courtesy of backing away and allowing him to do the same. Not good enuf for you?

Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence. I suppose a good analogy would be this war most all of us hate. You attack the enemy Taliban or rappy and you also hit civilians or right leaning folk not rappy in the process. It may be acceptable to you or just unfortunate collateral damage, but anyone hit with the flak won't think highly of you. I'm not going to claim to know your motivations, I'm just letting you know how it looks from my perspective. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct either, but if you can prove me wrong without viciously jabbing at my unrelated and perceived character flaws I would appreciate it

also, I suppose I should thank kwicko for pointing out how I looked concerning the Muslim thing (even though it pissed the hell out of me at the time). I think it was exaggerated, but he wasn't the only person who thought that way. I don't think Muslims as a whole are any more dangerous than any other group of people, their extremists just happen to be trending right now. I suppose I should be more careful in my post so as not to create a false impression.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:10 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

No, you keep holding him up as an example. "The War has begun." "Choose or perish." "Choose AND perish." "Don't start something you don't want started."

Your meaning and implications are quite clear, as you say. (Hey, you love imparting meaning and intent to the words of others, so goose sauce = gander sauce, right?)

Not even remotely. Nothing I state holds this guy up, in any remote fashion. The " don't start something " remark had nothing to do w/ the AZ shooter, but was directed squarely at those who bring up Sarah's " hit list " in conjunction to this story, and trying to paint him as some sort of agent for the Right.

One has nothing to do w/ the other. And yet, in typical Leftist fashion, you blur the lines of fact and fantasy, because your position can't ever stand up on its own merits.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:19 PM (P)

By "Jared Lee Loughner" Channel Views 2,085,939 (no face no voice no I.D.):
youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/f/0/3L1lsLU-kUw

Burning the US flag is the only lawful way to retire any US flag. VFW does it every day.

BTW Giffords met hubby Mark Kelly and fell in love in Communist China...they were married to other persons at the time. Puttin the ho in homewrecker.

As a good jewish girl, was she a citizen of Israel employed by Mossad to infiltrate US Naval Intelligence, which Capt Kelly is surely a part of in the NASA astronot spy program?

Was Capt Kelly the real target of this Manchurian Commie assassin? Whackin the family has the benefit of leaving the target intact to control.

“My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!”
-Demorat Daily Kos, 2 days before Giffords was shot in the head

"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:20 PM (P)

Quote:
also, I suppose I should thank kwicko for pointing out how I looked concerning the Muslim thing (even though it pissed the hell out of me at the time). I think it was exaggerated, but he wasn't the only person who thought that way. I don't think Muslims as a whole are any more dangerous than any other group of people, their extremists just happen to be trending right now. I suppose I should be more careful in my post so as not to create a false impression.

It's hard to not give the wrong impression in online discussions, because so much nuance gets lost in the written word.

That was why the Muslim thing took me aback a bit - because from what I know of you, that ISN'T who or what you are, and it seemed out of character. And I should have done a better job of handling it, obviously.

This Space For Rent!

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:39 PM (P)

Quote:
Doctors say the bullet traveled the length of the left side of the Arizona congresswoman's brain, entering the back of the skull and exiting the front.

http://www.timesonline.com/bct_news/news_details/article/1373/2011/jan
uary/09/docs-say-hard-to-predict-brain-damage-in-giffords.html

Entering the BACK of the head and EXITING THE FRONT...

But the alleged shooter was in front of her the entire time, and shot her first.

Where have we heard that before?
http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/10/parkland-press-conference-11-
22-63.html

In...

Out...

Back and to the left...
youtube.com/watch?v=9MLc0udf_74

RFK shot point blank from behind, Sirhan Sirhan was only in front with total amnesia...

Many of the dead appear to be due to lack of ambulance service, since there were only 5 ambulances available in the entire county, but 20 victims. Ambulances can only carry 1 body at a time. Gotta keep those foreign shareholders in those trillion-dollar foreign ambulance corporations happy. Too many ambulances would make them sad. No mention of that negligence in the 'news'.

"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:48 PM (P)

Quote:
Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence.

Well, you haven't been around for very long, so you haven't been around long enough to know that I distinguish between right-wingers. Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people who try to represent their POV honestly, w/o resorting to name-calling, threats, and other crap. It doesn't seem to me that you're the type to stoop to threats and name-calling and innuendo and ranting and other crap that passes for discussion. If I hit you by mistake, I apologize.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:59 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Unfortunately, you tend to hit the entire right with proxy fire. 'fucking right wing assholes' and implying the right as a whole is responsible for the attack and are pro-violence.
Well, you haven't been around for very long, so you haven't been around long enough to know that I distinguish between right-wingers. Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people who try to represent their POV honestly, w/o resorting to name-calling, threats, and other crap. It doesn't seem to me that you're the type to stoop to threats and name-calling and innuendo and ranting and other crap that passes for discussion. If I hit you by mistake, I apologize.

See, Sig doesn't even attempt to address or deny the point of attacking / blaming the Right for this. Instead , what do we get ? No retraction, just a " sorry if you thought I included you " apology.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Sunday, January 9, 2011 8:59 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Peeps like Jongsstraw and Ripwash and DT and (to some extent) Anthony are decent people

Okay, I have to take issue with that. Anthony is only "to some extent" a decent person? Anthony is THE most unfailingly polite, most unfailingly fair and honest person on these boards, as far as I've ever seen.

This Space For Rent!

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:00 PM (P)

Turns out the alleged shooter's mommy works for the county government legislature...which is why the newswhores and copsters won't mention his parent's names.
http://www.pima.gov/bos/bos1.html

Just like Columbine, where the jewish shooters' parents were employed by FBI and Pentagon.

Quote:
This is an internal memo obtained by Fox News put out by DHS compiling facts known so far about the case - new - shooter's mother worked for Pima board of supervisers and the suspected anti-Semitic motivation of the shooter.

MEMO:

"The investigation has been taken over by the FBI, and is being run through the Tucson Command Post. Here's what can be confirmed at this time (1800 hrs)... * Gabrielle Giffords Is in ICU.* Federal judge John Roll is deceased. He did rule on a 32 million dollar civil rights lawsuit in February, 2010. That ruling brought death threats to Roll and his family, and for a time he was given a protection detail.* 6 deaths attributed to the shooting. 19 total people hit by gunfire.*

suspect’s mother works for the Pima County Board of Supervisors*

the suspect has multiple arrests ... But no criminal record? Intervention by someone?* no direct connection - but strong suspicion is being directed at AmRen / American Renaissance. Suspect is possibly linked to this group. (through videos posted on his myspace and YouTube account.). The group’s ideology is anti government, anti immigration, anti ZOG (Zionist Occupational Government), anti Semitic. Gabrielle Gifford is the first Jewish female elected to such a high position in the US government. She was also opposite this group’s ideology when it came to immigration debate.* DHS have a list of names and dates of birth of all victims.* the ACTIC is still playing a major role in the investigation...

Computer forensics is cleaning up the surveillance videos, and images from around the scene,

and involved in the investigation - working together, was MCSO, DPS, Phoenix PD, ICE, and of course the FBI. It did just come in from the command post, that the federal judge was Not originally scheduled to attend the meeting, according to wife. She stated that he received a phone call about an hour before and was invited to attend. Wrong place - wrong time. For the planning side, there are impromptu memorials popping up all over the state, but the largest one is downtown phoenix, at the capital."

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-was-shot-b
ecause-she.html

"Cleaning up the videos"... just like the did on 9/11, OKC, JFK and Fort Hood, where nobody was ever allowed to see those videos again.

Quote:
The turning point came in 2001 following a tour of Israel with the American Jewish Committee, she told The Arizona Star in 2007.

"It just cemented the fact that I wanted to spend more time with my own personal, spiritual growth. I felt very committed to Judaism," she said. "Religion means different things to different people. It provides me with grounding, a better understanding of who I came from."

Her wedding to Cmdr. Mark Kelly, an astronaut, was written up in The New York Times. The item noted that a mariachi band played Jewish music and two canopies -- a chupah and one of swords held up by Kelly’s Navy buddies.

“That was Gabby,” Jonathan Rothschild, a longtime friend who served on her campaign’s executive committee, recalled to JTA. “The real irony of this thing is her Judaism is central to her, but she is the kind of person who reaches out to everybody.”

Giffords’ father is Jewish and her mother is a Christian Scientist, and she was raised in both faiths. Her grandfather, Akiba Hornstein, changed his name to Gifford Giffords after moving from New York to Arizona, in part because he did not want his Jewishness to be an issue in unfamiliar territory.

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/01/09/2742463/giffords-known-both
-for-her-openness-and-judaism

When Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon said "We control America" did he mean like....?

KANEMAN

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:16 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, you can try to bury your little "choose and perish" statement with a blizzard of off-topic snark, but I really know which side you're on. It was YOUR response I found both offensive and threatening. And coming from a guy who can't even commit to saying whether a flat tax is fair or not... I mean, you're just a little coward who gets all wet when someone does your dirty work. Sorry dude, but if it were possible to have less than zero respect for someone, you would be that person.

He did seem positively giddy about these shootings, didn't he?

"The was has begun," and all that rot.

The what has begun?

SIGNYM

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:20 PM (P)

Mike: I meant that Anthony is to some extent a RWer. Sorry for the confusion.

KANEMAN

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Happy, I think you missed the part where KKKaney, avowed right-winger and hero to many of the righties around here, said that all the liberals should absolutely be shot. Let's hope I'm not unfairly quoting the right on that one...

Quote:
[about Kwicko's post]

...which I was happy to read, cause it's sometimes difficult to figure out exactly where he stands and what he's saying. This statement efficiently sums that up and I can't really disagree with it.

I appreciate that. Not sure why it's so hard to nail down what I believe or where I stand. I generally stand to the left of center, and I generally like to ask "...and THEN what?" I've long advocated having a Cabinet position for the "Department of And Then What?"

People like to live in black and white; they don't like to face the greys of reality. I'm the guy in the grey suit, battling the absolute. :)

This Space For Rent!

I'm no right-winger, but i do feel all libtards should be shot. And I hope this liberal pig-whore dies. I'd hate to see a perfectly good bullet wasted. And it's just my opinion...which I have a right to. The only way I'd be happier is if she was black.

HARDWARE

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:40 PM (P)

Larry Correia may have made the best statement about the incident and the MSM's reaction to it.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/understanding-media-or-wh
y-are-you-right-wingers-so-filled-with-hate/

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 9:52 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Larry Correia may have made the best statement about the incident and the MSM's reaction to it.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/understanding-media-or-wh
y-are-you-right-wingers-so-filled-with-hate/

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE

Making a movie about the assassination of George Bush = ART

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:03 PM (P)

coming out of lurk mode for a moment...

who cares what the motives of the shooter were...

does his affiliations really matter ?

a quick look at Gabrielle Giffords career,

she twice voted for more money to the Iraq war

she is in thick with the AIPAC crowd, and is quoted as " Committed to unbreakable U.S.-Israel bond.

she is a member of the Armed Services, and Foreign Affairs committees.

supports US policy is Afghanistan and Pakistan

Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.

I'd feel bad about the nine year old, but then again I wonder how many nine year old have been wasted by US drone strikes. Guess the bystanders shouldn't have been standing so close to the criminal.

Hopefully this event inspires some folk... maybe they will get Cheney next.

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...

JONGSSTRAW

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:17 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

The war has begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Fucking right-wing assholes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaneman:

I'm no right-winger, but i do feel all libtards should be shot. And I hope this liberal pig-whore dies.

Quote:
Originally posted by Ginobiffaroni:

Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.

You're all nuts. And those that justify and even advocate murder are without human redemption.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE.

Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:36 PM (P)

Quote:
Angry rhetoric brings US to the brink
Matt Bai
January 10, 2011

COMMENT

WITHIN minutes of the first reports that Arizona Democrat Gabrielle Giffords and a score of people with her had been shot in Tucson, pages began disappearing from the web.

One was Sarah Palin's infamous ''cross-hairs'' map from last year, which showed a series of contested congressional districts, including Giffords's, with gun targets trained on them. Another was from Daily Kos, the liberal blog, where one of the congresswoman's apparently liberal constituents declared her ''dead to me'' after Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi in House leadership elections.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Odds are pretty good that neither of these - nor any other isolated bit of imagery - had much to do with the shooting in Tucson. But scrubbing them from the internet couldn't erase all evidence of the rhetorical recklessness that permeates our political moment. The question is whether Saturday's shooting marks the logical end point of such a moment - or the beginning of a terrifying new one.

Modern America has endured such moments before. The intense ideological clashes of the 1960s, centred on communism and civil rights and Vietnam, were marked by a series of assassinations that changed the course of American history, carried out against a backdrop of urban riots and self-immolating war protesters.

During the culture wars of the 1990s, fought over issues such as gun rights and abortion, right-wing extremists killed 168 people in Oklahoma City, terrorised hundreds in an Atlanta park and at abortion clinics in the South.

What's different about this moment is the emergence of a political culture - on blogs and Twitter and cable TV - that so loudly reinforces the dark visions of political extremists, often for profit or political gain.

It wasn't clear whether the alleged shooter in Tucson was motivated by any political philosophy, or by voices in his head, or perhaps by both. But it's hard not to think he was at least partly influenced by a debate that seems to conflate philosophical disagreement with a political Armageddon.

The problem here doesn't lie with activists like most of those who populate the Tea parties, ordinary citizens in conversation about the country's direction. Rather, the problem seems to rest with political leaders who pander to the margins of the margins, employing whatever words seem likely to win contributions or TV time, with little regard for the consequences.

Consider the comments of Sharron Angle, the Tea Party favourite who ran for the Senate in Nevada last year. She talked about ''domestic enemies'' in the Congress and said, ''I hope we're not getting to second amendment remedies'' (a reference to the constitutional right to bear arms).

Then there's Rick Barber, a Republican loser in an Alabama congressional race, but not before airing an ad in which someone dressed as George Washington listens to an attack on the Obama agenda and proclaims, ''Gather your armies''.

In fact, much of the message among Republicans last year, as they sought to exploit the Tea Party phenomenon, centred on this imagery of armed revolution. It's not that such leaders are trying to incite violence or hysteria; in fact, they're not. It's more that they are so caught up in a culture of hyperbole, so amused with their own verbal flourishes, that - like the bloggers and TV hosts to whom they cater - they seem to lose their hold on the power of words.

Contrast that with one of John McCain's finer moments as a candidate in 2008, when a woman at a Minnesota meeting asserted that Barack Obama was a closeted Arab. ''No, ma'am, he's not,'' Senator McCain quickly replied, taking back the microphone. ''He's a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with.''

The pressing question is where this all ends - whether we re-evaluate the piercing pitch of our political debate or whether we are hurtling unstoppably into a frightening period more like the late 1960s.

Tucson will either be the tra

KANEMAN

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:44 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE.

Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

Go read the link dumbass. What policy is giving Americans basic healthcare to the population. You have to buy it dumbass.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:54 PM (P)

Quote:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.

That's one of the more hateful, tasteless non PN remarks I think I've ever seen on FFF.NEt

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, January 9, 2011 11:59 PM (P)

True. It's up there with

The war has begun.

Choose or perish.

in terms of a response to a fatal shooting.

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:09 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

*Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

You didn't read the full link, or even the part I posted, did you ?

It's a contrast in how the MSM treats the Left and the Right

On the one hand, you have....

Quote:

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE

but on the other hand, you have...

Quote:
Making a movie about the assassination of George Bush = ART

The Left can tolerate the murdering of a President, provided it's Bush, and call it " art " . But people standing up for their constitutional rights ? Why, that's HATE speech! Dangerous and violent tones !

* Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.

- quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

PIRATENEWS

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:14 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

she twice voted for more money to the Iraq war

she is in thick with the AIPAC crowd, and is quoted as " Committed to unbreakable U.S.-Israel bond.

supports US policy is Afghanistan and Pakistan

Hell, she has plenty of blood on her hands, and appears deserving of the result.

I'd feel bad about the nine year old, but then again I wonder how many nine year old have been wasted by US drone strikes.

I think it's very patriotic to support the nation that massacred the USS Liberty, then tried to blame the A-Rabs.

"The act of terrorizing, or state of being terrorized; a mode of government by terror or intimidation."
-Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:17 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
True. It's up there with

The war has begun.

Choose or perish.

in terms of a response to a fatal shooting.

Again, you miss the point. My remarks were in response to " fucking right wing assholes " and the hyper over reaction to Palin's ' hit list' and those trying to connect non existent dots. It absolutely wasn't in response to multiple deaths and woundings by a whacked out nut case.

Seriously, some of you have the brains of a turnip.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:23 AM (P)

No, I didn't read the link. It wasn't clear that you were quoting from that link. In any event, nNow I have, it wasn't very illuminating. Another angry, badly written rant from a right winger who feels, oh that's right ANGRY. The emotion of the day.

I get people's right to protest, I really do. It's just that the rhetoric of the right has become more and more laced with violent undertones. And over what? They didn't like democrat policy. Well, I never.

I wonder if any of those people protested the useless wars that killed thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. Did they protest when Bush sanctioned torture, when the Bush government implemented policies of rendition, indefinite incarceration without trial, when US soldiers carried out sanctioned abuses of prisoners.

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:28 AM (P)

Magonsdaughter wrote:
Sunday, January 09, 2011 14:23
No, I didn't read the link. It wasn't clear that you were quoting from that link. In any event, nNow I have, it wasn't very illuminating. Another angry, badly written rant from a right winger who feels, oh that's right ANGRY. The emotion of the day.

Yes. Damn right, they're angry. Because when the Gov't isn't listening to the people, and continues to ignore their wishes, folks get angry.

Quote:

I get people's right to protest, I really do. It's just that the rhetoric of the right has become more and more laced with violent undertones. And over what? They didn't like democrat policy. Well, I never.

Because the gov't continued to ignore the people. But you're over hyping the 'violent undertones' bit.

Quote:

I wonder if any of those people protested the useless wars that killed thousands of americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans. Did they protest when Bush sanctioned torture, when the Bush government implemented policies of rendition, indefinite incarceration without trial, when US soldiers carried out sanctioned abuses of prisoners.

The water boarding saved lives. If you think that's 'torture', or a bad thing, tough.
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:39 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot....

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...

I am so sorry for asking. I don't know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic, or if you are serious. I'm just wondering. Thanks.

If someone were to advocate this position seriously, it would imply the "good" thing to do is to kill every legislator who voted the same votes to keep the wars going. I can't imagine anyone advocating that seriously.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:41 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes. Damn right, they're angry. Because when the Gov't isn't listening to the people, and continues to ignore their wishes, folks get angry.

The government was voted in by people. If people don't like what the government does, they get to vote. Sometimes you don't get the government of your choice, that sucks, but its how things happen in a democracy.

Quote:

Because the gov't continued to ignore the people. But you're over hyping the 'violent undertones' bit.

No, the people who demonstrated don't like and agree with the governments policy. But there will be people who DO agree with those policies. If the government loses the support of the majority of the people, they'll be voted out. That's how things happen in a democracy.

Quote:

The water boarding saved lives. If you think that's 'torture', or a bad thing, tough.
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.

Ah yes, thank god only bad people get tortured, because torturing bad people for information is okay So as long as you are not bad, you'll be okay, you have nothing to fear. No problems with handing that power to governments, to decide who is good and bad, who deserves torture and who doesn't, who deserves death. Talk about handing them the ULTIMATE power over people.

The creed of every truly tyrannical government.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, January 10, 2011 12:43 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The terrorists got treated far FAR better than they treated our soldiers, or those in the WTC towers. Bush treated the terrorists better than they deserved.

What about "terrorists" who turn out not to be terrorists?

What about Dilawar who was killed at Bagram, for example?

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Dilawar_%28human_rights
_victim%29

Quote:
It would be many months before Army investigators learned that most of the interrogators had in fact believed Mr. Dilawar to be an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:10 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot....

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...
I am so sorry for asking. I don't know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic, or if you are serious. I'm just wondering. Thanks.

If someone were to advocate this position seriously, it would imply the "good" thing to do is to kill every legislator who voted the same votes to keep the wars going. I can't imagine anyone advocating that seriously.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Completely Serious

In a just world people are legally and morally held to account for their decisions and how those decisions effect others.

In a perfect world, the collective leadership of the US would find itself under investigation / prosecution before the International Criminal Court.

Hmm Not going to happen.

Many on this board have said in the past that voting isn't going to solve anything. The fix is in, it doesn't matter who gets elected you have the same thing. Obama is proof of that, so no possibility for change that way either.

If the only way to hold your " legislators " accountable is to treat them in exactly the same fashion your government treats those opposing it around the world... then good luck to those doing the shooting. They vote money to criminal actions, then they are deserving of what they receive, until such time we have a different way to resolve these issues.

But anyway, back to the occasional Lurk

No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

Theodore Roosevelt

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:26 AM (P)

Hmm.

Firstoff, I think it'd odd that in between the obvious crazy, it's actually PN whos offered the most hard-information content in this thread (discarding the obvious bunk), and what does THAT say, I ask you ?

Secondly, and this specifically to Hero - if I am so "crazy" and yet, have a history of being utterly correct in most assessments of a situation, often right down to chapter and verse, as opposed to the "sane", then you really need to either revisit your worldview, or come to terms with the fact that if the lunatics are right, there's something seriously fucked up about our world, and maybe go see to doin something about it.

Besides, that kinda crazy is a myth, same as when a kid points out obvious flaws in our society we train ourselves to never see, never speak of, never address - and then we go and call it a "distorted worldview" and label them mentally ill, then try to medicate them into acceptance of the lies we tell ourselves in order to avoid facing unpleasant realities.

Seeing the world as it is, that ain't crazy - the crazies are the ones who blind themselves to realities they do not have the courage to face, folk like this nutter who thought shooting one of the few politicians who *did* leave their ivory tower and try to talk to people would accomplish anything, folk like the nutters who think the dog and pony show of a courtroom actually MEANS anything but one side outguns the other...
THAT, is crazy.

Oh, and Mikey - the position of "Department of AND THEN WHAT?" is filled, get yer own cabinet post!

And FYI, I happen to know Larry, hell, I've touted his MHI books more than once - doesn't mean I agree with his politics, cause in that respect he's something of an ass and allows partisanship to blind him to plain reality, but then a damned lot of people do that, from every single direction of the political spectrum.

As to the shooting itself, it kind of appalls me a mite that no one shot back, as Arizona isn't as hostile to CCW as most states, but then again this was a crowded shopping mall parking lot and it's quite likely anyone who was packing didn't have a clean shot or was more focused on getting people into cover and safe, which I can completely understand - some folk *did* tackle his ass and disarm him, mind you, an act of personal heroism which has been completely overlooked by everyone else within this discussion, and I find that a mite offensive.

Quote:
Ms. Patricia Maisch was at the event, in the rear of the line, waiting to take a photograph with Congresswoman Giffords when the suspect began shooting. When the suspect tried to load a fresh magazine into his weapon, Ms. Maisch was able to grab the bottom of the magazine and prevent it from being inserted. This pause in shooting allowed for two men, Roger Salzgeber and Bill D. Badger, to tackle the suspect to the ground and restrain him until deputies arrived. An additional male, Joseph Zamudio, also assisted in restraining the suspect’s legs. Initial information reported Ms. Maisch was injured during the event. This information was inaccurate and she did not report having any injuries.

It doesn't necessarily TAKE a firearm (although in many situations it helps) to stop an incident of this nature, but rather someone taking an opportunity presented, as they did here.

Credit where it's due, these peoples actions prevented further casualties, and that should be respected.
Also creditable is the Official Response, which came within 3.5 minutes of the initial 911 call, bagged up the suspect at 4.5 minutes, and was initiating first aid and trauma response within 5 minutes.

You know, people, bullets don't give a fuck about someones politics when they're in the air, and the time to think about that sorta thing is before someone puts em there.

But then, what do I know, I'm just one of the crazy-talkers, right ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Completely Serious

Congresswoman, wife to astronaut, mother of 2 survives....

Much to the chagrin of Gino.

There are some ugly, classless folks in the world. Sadly, you're one of them.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot....

Well maybe I'll lurk again in a few months, or if more good news occurs...
I am so sorry for asking. I don't know you well enough to know if you are being sarcastic, or if you are serious. I'm just wondering. Thanks.

If someone were to advocate this position seriously, it would imply the "good" thing to do is to kill every legislator who voted the same votes to keep the wars going. I can't imagine anyone advocating that seriously.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Completely Serious

In a just world people are legally and morally held to account for their decisions and how those decisions effect others.

In a perfect world, the collective leadership of the US would find itself under investigation / prosecution before the International Criminal Court.

Hmm Not going to happen.

Many on this board have said in the past that voting isn't going to solve anything. The fix is in, it doesn't matter who gets elected you have the same thing. Obama is proof of that, so no possibility for change that way either.

If the only way to hold your " legislators " accountable is to treat them in exactly the same fashion your government treats those opposing it around the world... then good luck to those doing the shooting. They vote money to criminal actions, then they are deserving of what they receive, until such time we have a different way to resolve these issues.

But anyway, back to the occasional Lurk

No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

Theodore Roosevelt

yeah, because violent revolution, violent revolt works out so well for a society, doesn't it?

All I can say is that before people call for violent retribution, they'd better be damned sure that turning to lawlessness and violence is really going to be worth it for the general population, because armed revolt is ugly, lots of people die, and the end result is a bit of a lottery really. If you let those who wield the gun take charge, anything can happen, not always with good results.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:39 AM (P)

Quote:
As to the shooting itself, it kind of appalls me a mite that no one shot back, as Arizona isn't as hostile to CCW as most states, but then again this was a crowded shopping mall parking lot and it's quite likely anyone who was packing didn't have a clean shot or was more focused on getting people into cover and safe, which I can completely understand - some folk *did* tackle his ass and disarm him, mind you, an act of personal heroism which has been completely overlooked by everyone else within this discussion, and I find that a mite offensive.

Kind of makes a mockery of your gun laws, Frem, that unarmed people were able to restrain him without the assistance of the so called armed population, who so rarely fight back when needed.

GINOBIFFARONI

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:44 AM (P)

MAGONSDAUGHTER,

people are dying everyday... and have been going back to where to US started on this course some 60 years ago...

Rappy just holds to the belief those lives have no value because they are not Americans.

" Congresswoman, wife to astronaut, mother of 2 "

who happened to enable, aid and abet before and after the fact, and cheer on the murder / maiming / torture of hundreds of thousands.

All kinds of war criminal have familys

doesn't make them less guilty.

No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

Theodore Roosevelt

PIRATENEWS

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:44 AM (P)

Obama Administration Plan to Create Internet ID for All Americans
National Strategy for Trusted Identities in Cyberspace
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/08/report-obama-administration
-plans-create-internet-id-americans/

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

this was a crowded shopping mall parking lot and it's quite likely anyone who was packing didn't have a clean shot or was more focused on getting people into cover and safe, which I can completely understand - some folk *did* tackle his ass and disarm him, mind you, an act of personal heroism

It was armed citizens who ran up and tackled him, making citizens arrests, which of course the useless dirtbag cops took credit for, and the media mafiya failed to credit them with. There was no need to shoot, since as shooters they knew he could not shoot while reloading. The non gun owners were paralyzed with fear.

Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack Described by Classmate as "Liberal Pothead" with jewfro
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/01/jared_loughner_al
leged_shooter.php

Second Man Sought In Giffords Shooting May Be Assassin’s Handler
HOW MANY TAXI DRIVERS WALK YOU TO YOUR DESTINATION???!!!
http://www.infowars.com/second-man-sought-in-giffords-shooting-may-be-
assassins-handler/

Quote:
Incestuous gay jew S&M pedophiles with bad hair at SPLC blame Ayn Rand, David Icke and Reptilian V's for Arizona Shooting

Because Loughner allegedly posted statements about gold and silver-backed currency on his MySpace and other postings, Mark Potok further connects Loughner to right wingers on this point; however, it is the Constitution, in Article I Section 10, which demands that “No State shall… make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.”

http://www.infowars.com/splc-blames-ayn-rand-david-icke-and-others-for
-arizona-shooting/

Kosher SPLC lawyer Morris "Dees" Seligman is a "homicidal adulterous pedophile who committed incest" according to his wife in divorce court
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/even_with_morris_dees.html
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/PDF_Books/MorrisDeesDivorcePapers.pdf

"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:48 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
MAGONSDAUGHTER,

people are dying everyday... and have been going back to where to US started on this course some 60 years ago...

Rappy just holds to the belief those lives have no value because they are not Americans.

" Congresswoman, wife to astronaut, mother of 2 "

who happened to enable, aid and abet before and after the fact, and cheer on the murder / maiming / torture of hundreds of thousands.

All kinds of war criminal have familys

doesn't make them less guilty.

No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we ask him to obey it.

Theodore Roosevelt

Doesn't mean that armed revolt will make things better. Evidence is that it just replaces the old bastards with the new ones, and society is destabilised and corrupted, often to a degree that it is hard to recover from.

Not saying that it is never necessary, but that you'd better be damned sure if you are calling for this kind of action that you can live with the consequences.

How many died in the Russian revolution, where they had pretty good reason to revolt. 9 million, 15? For what, to eventually replace one hideous autocrat with another, possible worse one.

How many died in Cambodia? 20% of the population? For what, a regime of violent children who murdered anyone who was middle class, educated, so there were no doctors, no scientists, no teachers left?

Rwanda? A million people murdered in a few days. That worked out well, didn't it.

Talk of taking up arms is all very romantic, but the reality is not at all so.

HERO

Monday, January 10, 2011 1:52 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I wonder what you all will have to sayNobody is saying that Loughner belonged to the tea party. But he certainly was influenced by crazy-talking RWERz like Glenn Beck, and O'Reilly, Hannity, and Limbaugh, and the rest of the untethered, spittle-spraying, violence-inciting crowd.

The only violence they incite is in those who want to shut them up.

I note for the record that there is no evidence that he was influenced by Beck, O'Reilly, or anybody. There is no evidence he even knew or heard of Palin's desire to defeat certain Dems in the last election. All we know is what he said in his postings and notes which says he was influenced by his crazyness more then the political rhetoric. From his profile he was far more likely to be a listener of Jon Stewart then O'Reilly or Beck.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

RUE

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:06 AM (P)

"p.s. Wasn't your comment more befitting of your alias, Rue?"

Oh, you are SOOoooooo so wrong. But hell, nothing new about that. LMAOROTF

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

CANTTAKESKY

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:07 AM (P)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t6rV3U9ZEHM/TSnYNF38NeI/AAAAAAAA_Wc/F22abvdH
S48/s1600/WESTBORO-BAPTIST-CHU

Yep. We're all thinking it.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

THEHAPPYTRADER

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:17 AM (P)

Damn, that is just wrong on... EVERY level. CTS your post shocked and revolted me back into posting on this thread. These Westboro Baptist are not behaving remotely Christian! It's infuriating low they will stoop and how much attention they get for it. Almost makes me wish someone would do something terrible to them, but that would only increase their power and influence.

1KIKI

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:25 AM (P)

The guy was about the right age for schizophrenic onset. Apparently he'd been bounced from college b/c of strange behavior, and told to seek counseling before returning. His beliefs reek of paranoid schizophrenia, like PNs'. It's not as rare as some may think: worldwide 1 in 100 people is schizophrenic.

That said, non-violent cultures with their 1% schizophrenics tend not to generate violent ones. This guy learned what we have to teach him - power, fear, violence. We are to blame for that.

My question is - how did he manage to buy a gun?

I'm sorry for those who dislike gun control, but given our violent culture and given that one in every hundred people you see - (How many do you know? How many do you pass every day on the street and in the store? A couple of hundred people? Statistically, then, you know two schizophrenics) - is schizophrenic - does NOT having and enforcing gun control to keep guns out of the hands of schizophrenics seem wise?

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, you are SOOoooooo so wrong. But hell, nothing new about that. LMAOROTF

Thanks for coming out of retirement for little old me.

Fairly fortuitous that you happened to stumble across this thread which just happens to mention your name.

RUE

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:38 AM (P)

Oh, I figured this event would bring out the right-wing. You are extremely predictable. And as I was reading along, I found you remembered me. Wow. I didn't know you cared. And you gave me a present. THANKS for being the idiot you are and providing me with a good laugh. At you of course.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Monday, January 10, 2011 2:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, I figured this event would bring out the right-wing. And as I was reading along, I found you remembered me. Wow. I didn't know you cared. And you gave me a present. THANKS for being the idiot you are and providing me with a good laugh. At you of course.

No problem, it was the least I could do for someone hanging on my every typed word. Seriously, how did you respond so fast? And don't say you got a notification, I do not think that feature has been working in quite some time.

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:05 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Mike: I meant that Anthony is to some extent a RWer. Sorry for the confusion.

Whew! Ya had me scared for a minute there, Sig!

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This crystallizes the dichotomy and hypocracy of the Left, brilliantly.

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE.

Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

Thank you, Magons, for crystalizing the hypocrisy of the right so elegantly.

This Space For Rent!

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Too bad Loughner wasn't a better shot.

That's one of the more hateful, tasteless non PN remarks I think I've ever seen on FFF.NEt

Yeah - I'm surprised it wasn't you who said it. Remember when you wanted Jack Murtha "put down like a rabid dog", and then tried to deny saying that once he actually died? Yeah, you're that classless.

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

*Why does a big, ineffectual government set a violent and dangerous tone. I don't see the link. Surely, if the government is big and ineffective, its big and ineffective. It's people who find that an affront akin to having Pol Pot as a leader that set the violent and dangerous tone by calling for armed revolution and resistance simply because they find themselves on the other side of political fence from that which was making policy.

I've posted with Americans on several different boards now for the past 7 or so years. The hard line rhetoric has come almost exclusively from the right, the far right as I see it, at least where I have posted. The kind of views that initially supported wars of venegence on Iraq and Afghanistan for 9/11, who supported torture, indefinite incarceration, suspension of habeus corpus, who divided the world into us and them, you are with us or against us.

Those same people have called for violence, even on these boards, not because of any of the above....no, all those outrages are fine, what really gets them steamed up is a policy which would provide basic healthcare for the population. Oh yes, that's the kind of moral outrage that would make them march to washington.

The left, the left feel like the moderates to me, the ones who are trying to keep a sane voice in amongst a roar of insane ones.

You didn't read the full link, or even the part I posted, did you ?

It's a contrast in how the MSM treats the Left and the Right

On the one hand, you have....

Quote:

Remember:
Tea Party movement is about how regular Americans are sick of paying too much in taxes and the government is too big and ineffectual = SETTING A DANGEROUS AND VIOLENT TONE

but on the other hand, you have...

Quote:
Making a movie about the assassination of George Bush = ART

The Left can tolerate the murdering of a President, provided it's Bush, and call it " art " . But people standing up for their constitutional rights ? Why, that's HATE speech! Dangerous and violent tones !

* Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases.

- quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Okay, enlighten me. Who in this country made a movie about assassinating Bush? Who on the American left made this "art" you speak so highly of?

Someone IN ANOTHER COUNTRY made a movie dealing with the fictional death of a U.S. President. Meanwhile, THIS COUNTRY invaded another and ACTUALLY MURDERED ITS PRESIDENT, and you cheered that action. And you can't even tell who the bad guys are.

This Space For Rent!

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thank you, Magons, for crystalizing the hypocrisy of the right so elegantly.

Only there was no of that, remotely, what so ever.

This is how not reading fully leads to misunderstanding and then to stupidity.

Like you, Kwickie.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:30 AM (P)

and more to the point, who here supported the assasination of Bush? Removed from office, tried for war crimes maybe, but assasinated? Not that I've been coming here that long, but I
ll grant it that nobody supported that course of action.

Ok, maybe gino would have

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:32 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
True. It's up there with

The war has begun.

Choose or perish.

in terms of a response to a fatal shooting.

Again, you miss the point. My remarks were in response to " fucking right wing assholes " and the hyper over reaction to Palin's ' hit list' and those trying to connect non existent dots. It absolutely wasn't in response to multiple deaths and woundings by a whacked out nut case.

Bullshit.

You posted that IMMEDIATELY AFTER I *mentioned* that Palin had put Giffords on a target list. There was no "hyper over reaction to Palin's hit list", except by you. Go up and look at the threads in order. Signy didn't post that "fucking right-wing assholes" snark until AN HOUR AFTER YOUR POST.

Quit trying to backpedal and rewrite history. Your meaning was quite clear, and you were very proud of yourself, right up until people started calling you on your bullshit, at which point you started whining like the little bitch you are, and complaining that you're just misunderstood.

Seriously, it's all right here in this thread.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thank you, Magons, for crystalizing the hypocrisy of the right so elegantly.

Only there was no of that, remotely, what so ever.

This is how not reading fully leads to misunderstanding and then to stupidity.

Like you, Kwickie.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Well I can tell you now, I rarely read links that right wingers put in their posts. I find that rightwingednutjobblog.com rarely says much to add to the debate. Just like I can't be arsed watching more videos of songs.

When I post a link, I assume that not everyone will be bothered to click on it and that it is more like additional information for those that care. If I think something is really important, I usually include it in the post, in quotes, so that people realise that it is not me making those statements.

really, you rarely have much to say that I find interesting, so I am less likely to click on your links than other posters, even right winged ones.

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Okay, enlighten me. Who in this country made a movie about assassinating Bush? Who on the American left made this "art" you speak so highly of?

Someone IN ANOTHER COUNTRY made a movie dealing with the fictional death of a U.S. President. Meanwhile, THIS COUNTRY invaded another and ACTUALLY MURDERED ITS PRESIDENT, and you cheered that action. And you can't even tell who the bad guys are.

Country of origin is irrelevant. How the Left treated a movie about killing the President, OUR President, was the point. I knew you were too stupid to comprehend such a basic, straight forward concept. All the stars in the galaxy aren't enough to "enlighten" you.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:44 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Damn, that is just wrong on... EVERY level. CTS your post shocked and revolted me back into posting on this thread. These Westboro Baptist are not behaving remotely Christian! It's infuriating low they will stoop and how much attention they get for it. Almost makes me wish someone would do something terrible to them, but that would only increase their power and influence.

DO NOT join their hate-filled ranks, Happy! You know the most heinous, terrible thing you can do to them? Laugh. Just laugh at them. Ridicule them, always. Shame them. Do not attack them, for that's what they desire, and it would make them the "hero" and the "martyr" for their cause. Deny them that; make them the butt of a joke.

This Space For Rent!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Okay, enlighten me. Who in this country made a movie about assassinating Bush? Who on the American left made this "art" you speak so highly of?

Someone IN ANOTHER COUNTRY made a movie dealing with the fictional death of a U.S. President. Meanwhile, THIS COUNTRY invaded another and ACTUALLY MURDERED ITS PRESIDENT, and you cheered that action. And you can't even tell who the bad guys are.

Country of origin is irrelevant. How the Left treated a movie about killing the President, OUR President, was the point. I knew you were too stupid to comprehend such a basic, straight forward concept. All the stars in the galaxy aren't enough to "enlighten" you.

So did the left say about the film 'what a great idea, let's do it, let's murder Bush' or did they say 'you can make films about what you want,even if the subject matter is abhorrent, because that is about freedom of speech'????

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:47 AM (P)

magonsdaughter -

You really aren't impressing me. You dismiss the link, out of hand. Fine, what ever. That's not the issue. What I POSTED was pretty simple, even for you to follow along.

A contrast ( why am I having to explain this AGAIN ?) between the kushy treatment the MSM gives some stories and spins those that they don't particularly care for. Regardless of your views on rightwingnutjob.com, it's an unmistakable fact. The evidence is there. You're just too much of a Left wing myrmidon to face reality.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:49 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, you are SOOoooooo so wrong. But hell, nothing new about that. LMAOROTF

Thanks for coming out of retirement for little old me.
Fairly fortuitous that you happened to stumble across this thread which just happens to mention your name.

And likewise, thank YOU for coming out of hiding for little old ME, BDN! That's twice in a week you've poked your head out of your (or someone's) hole. Are you looking for your shadow, little groundhog?

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh, I figured this event would bring out the right-wing. And as I was reading along, I found you remembered me. Wow. I didn't know you cared. And you gave me a present. THANKS for being the idiot you are and providing me with a good laugh. At you of course.

No problem, it was the least I could do for someone hanging on my every typed word. Seriously, how did you respond so fast? And don't say you got a notification, I do not think that feature has been working in quite some time.

Really? Works for me every day. I even get notifications on my phone if I want.

PIRATENEWS

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:52 AM (P)

BREAKING NEWS: Ronald Reagan takes a rock hard Log Cabin up his asshole in gay porn movie
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=47104

The next day a Commie Lone Nut shoots jewish princess in head...media mafiya goes mute on Gippers' homosexuality.

Coincidence?

"I had favorite books: The Communist Manifesto."
-Jared Lee Loughner (or his sockpuppet)
www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Thank you, Magons, for crystalizing the hypocrisy of the right so elegantly.

Only there was no of that, remotely, what so ever.

This is how not reading fully leads to misunderstanding and then to stupidity.

Like you, Kwickie.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Go back and re-read your post, dummy. See what's wrong there?

Oh, and note the correct spelling of hypocrisy. I guess you calling others "stupid" when you can't even spell the word "hypocrisy" would be a good example of it. :)

This Space For Rent!

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:57 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Okay, enlighten me. Who in this country made a movie about assassinating Bush? Who on the American left made this "art" you speak so highly of?

Someone IN ANOTHER COUNTRY made a movie dealing with the fictional death of a U.S. President. Meanwhile, THIS COUNTRY invaded another and ACTUALLY MURDERED ITS PRESIDENT, and you cheered that action. And you can't even tell who the bad guys are.

Country of origin is irrelevant. How the Left treated a movie about killing the President, OUR President, was the point. I knew you were too stupid to comprehend such a basic, straight forward concept. All the stars in the galaxy aren't enough to "enlighten" you.

So how DID "the Left" treat it? I'm "the Left", and I've never seen it. Are you saying that because "the Left" ignored a small-budget foreign film (did it sweep the Oscars? What was it called? Seems I'd have heard something, since it was obviously such a world-changing event for "the Left"...), that proves that all of "the Left" wants to carry out the message of a movie they never saw?

You've singularly failed to make your point. Or, really, ANY point.

This Space For Rent!

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 3:59 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So did the left say about the film 'what a great idea, let's do it, let's murder Bush' or did they say 'you can make films about what you want,even if the subject matter is abhorrent, because that is about freedom of speech'????

You're batting a 1.000 today, aren't ya ?

In missing the ball, that is.

They called it art and exalted it as some sort of glorious thing. It wasn't a matter of 'freedom of speech', as it wasn't from OUR country. But the Left ? They loved the idea, all the same.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:00 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Okay, enlighten me. Who in this country made a movie about assassinating Bush? Who on the American left made this "art" you speak so highly of?

Someone IN ANOTHER COUNTRY made a movie dealing with the fictional death of a U.S. President. Meanwhile, THIS COUNTRY invaded another and ACTUALLY MURDERED ITS PRESIDENT, and you cheered that action. And you can't even tell who the bad guys are.

Country of origin is irrelevant. How the Left treated a movie about killing the President, OUR President, was the point. I knew you were too stupid to comprehend such a basic, straight forward concept. All the stars in the galaxy aren't enough to "enlighten" you.

So did the left say about the film 'what a great idea, let's do it, let's murder Bush' or did they say 'you can make films about what you want,even if the subject matter is abhorrent, because that is about freedom of speech'????

HOW DARE YOU!

The teabaggers will be shocked and outraged that you could so callously defend freedom of speech and liberty of thought!

Expect a protest. Or an angry letter. Possibly a sternly-worded Post-It note left on your car.

This Space For Rent!

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:03 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So did the left say about the film 'what a great idea, let's do it, let's murder Bush' or did they say 'you can make films about what you want,even if the subject matter is abhorrent, because that is about freedom of speech'????

You're batting a 1.000 today, aren't ya ?

In missing the ball, that is.

They called it art and exalted it as some sort of glorious thing. It wasn't a matter of 'freedom of speech', as it wasn't from OUR country. But the Left ? They loved the idea, all the same.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

And of course you have scads of cites and documentation to back up these claims of yours, right?

Right?

Meanwhile, keep being indignant at Magons for not reading the link that you didn't post. That's never going to not be funny.

This Space For Rent!

AURAPTOR

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:04 AM (P)

Kwickie -

I'm watching The Cape. I keep seeing 'Batman' though, but Summer is a bit distracting.

Other than a couple of pts for misspelling a word or two, you have nothing of substance to add , so your remarks are all but predictable and boring.

snore.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

KWICKO

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:09 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kwickie -

I'm watching The Cape. I keep seeing 'Batman' though, but Summer is a bit distracting.

Other than a couple of pts for misspelling a word or two, you have nothing of substance to add , so your remarks are all but predictable and boring.

snore.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

In other words, this is your usual "I can give you all kinds of documentation, but you are unworthy of my time and effort" spiel.

Got it. I expected nothing else from you, because you've never had a single thing of substance to offer this forum.

But thanks for saying my remarks aren't predictable or boring. I appreciate that. ;)

This Space For Rent!

KANEMAN

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:41 AM (P)

Holy shit thread hijackers. Nice job ruining a perfectly good thread about a shot liberal....dicks.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:42 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And likewise, thank YOU for coming out of hiding for little old ME, BDN! That's twice in a week you've poked your head out of your (or someone's) hole. Are you looking for your shadow, little groundhog?

I actually came "out of hiding" (nice choice of words) to engage Signy in the let them eat cake thread. I engaged you sometime later as I scanned a few more threads soley because I like poking the monkey. Good try though, one of these days you might actually hit one out of the park.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:44 AM (P)

tell me, kaneman, have you ever contributed anything remotely intelligent to any thread? All I see is the bile you spit that ruins every thread that you cake up.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:50 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Really? Works for me every day. I even get notifications on my phone if I want.

Way to stay invested Kwicko. It's dedicated posters such as you that keep this place running. Now get your fingers over to the Gitmo thread. We could really use the opinions of an Obama supporter. They have been strangely non-existent in that thread to this point. I wonder if all the Hope is gone?

ps Please donate to Haken if you haven't already. How about a nickle a post?

KANEMAN

Monday, January 10, 2011 6:53 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
tell me, kaneman, have you ever contributed anything remotely intelligent to any thread? All I see is the bile you spit that ruins every thread that you cake up.

Short answer...No.

NIKI2

Monday, January 10, 2011 8:16 AM (P)

Came to turn my computer off; saw this thread and that it had 147 responses! Figured the majority of them were bickering back and forth, but there might be something of interest. Started at the most recent this time and worked back; only got about a third of the way up to Jong's quotes and remark before I gave up and have no desire to read more.

I realy have only one thing to say. Jong is absolutely right, in my opinion, that

Quote:
those that justify and even advocate murder are without human redemption.

and the things I read here are a prime example of that.

Personally, I would delete Sig's remark, because "fuking right-wing assholes" is merely typical for here and happens every day, from one side or the other, and I don't think we're all nuts. But the other three are prime examples of the hateful mentality existing today. Note it's authors are two of our most right right-wingers (yes, you are Kane, inasmuch as you have expressed any opinion), and Gino, who hates America and thinks we should ALL be wiped out.

That anyone can write what Kane and Gino wrote is unconscionable and an expression of a sick mentality.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

SIGNYM

Monday, January 10, 2011 8:50 AM (P)

Mike, you nailed it:

Quote:
You posted that IMMEDIATELY AFTER I *mentioned* that Palin had put Giffords on a target list. There was no "hyper over reaction to Palin's hit list", except by you. Go up and look at the threads in order. Signy didn't post that "fucking right-wing assholes" snark until AN HOUR AFTER YOUR POST.

Quit trying to backpedal and rewrite history. Your meaning was quite clear, and you were very proud of yourself, right up until people started calling you on your bullshit, at which point you started whining like the little bitch you are, and complaining that you're just misunderstood.

Seriously, it's all right here in this thread.

Rappy is one seriously frightened dude. He's even scared of his own opinions.

NIKI2

Monday, January 10, 2011 9:08 AM (P)

Back again. I girded my loins and started from the top this time. Happy, I’m sorry you’ve taken so much flack, I agree that Mike was acting like Raptor or one of his ilk...in other words, like an asshole. Please don’t let it turn you off the rest of us.

As I saw it, the “they started it” thing shows no racism or prejudice. I believe it was used in comparison to the holocaust; if it was, it makes logical sense. The terrorists DID “start it”, whereas in the holocaust, the Jews didn’t START anything. In that respect, it’s an accurate statement. I didn’t catch the post itself, so that’s just what I put together and my impression of it.

I rarely, if ever, respond to Whozit, but

Quote:
that this looney was a far left liberal

is unproven. He had books representing fascist, communist and I don’t know how many other philosophies, and there’s been nothing but one woman's tweets to indicate he’s a liberal thus far.

Wulf:

Quote:
Niki, you got that opinion/quote/idea directly, DIRECTLY from MSNBC and/or the article in the Washington Post.

No, I did not. MSNBC is not news or political programming here on the weekend, starting Friday night, and I didn’t watch it Friday, so I literally have no idea what they may have said or are saying. I only look up articles of specific interest on the internet, which is mostly when I am here, which I haven’t been today and I didn’t look anything up (like Washington Post) that had anything to do with this. I was considering the extreme emotions around their “papers-please” law, the recent problems with the transplant defunding and the people dying, the clips I’ve seen of their governor, and clips and articles I’ve been seeing for some time about the intense feelings there. It was those things which crossed my mind and are why I wrote what I did.

There’s a sheriff who’s been on the news (yes, I HAVE caught some news; popped into CNN for a bit and then watched local news to catch the weather, which is where I saw a clip of him talking), and he himself remarked on how it’s gotten more vitriolic recently than he’s ever seen in his decades on the job. That added to my sense that it’s not surprising Arizona would be a place something like this would happen.

I don’t know where you’re getting

Quote:
They're getting reports from people who know him, he's a far left lib.

and would like some cites, please. What little I’ve caught this weekend has had nothing indicating that. A search turned up this:

Quote:
A classmate of the man accused of shooting Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords this morning describes him as “left wing” and a “pot head” in a series of posts on Twitter this afternoon.

Caitie Parker did not immediately respond to our request for an interview, but her “tweets” in the hours after the shooting paint a picture of Jared Loughner as a substance-abusing loner who had met Giffords before the shooting. She says, Loughner described the congresswoman as “stupid and unintelligent.”

We’ve confirmed that Parker and Loughner went toÂ school together at Mountain View High School in Tucson and that both attended Pima Community College, so her claims of knowing Loughner seem to be legit.

Parker “tweets” that she and Loughner were in the band together and were friends until 2007 when he became “reclusive” after getting alcohol poisoning and dropping out of college. She describes him as “quite liberal” and as a “political radical.”

To which I give little credence. First, that's ONE person; not "people", who KNEW him up until 2007. Second, she’s not responding to the request for an interview; why not? How can we tell if she actually knows ANYTHING and wasn’t just trying to impress her friends on Twitter, exaggerating, expressing an (out of date) opinion? Third, she didn’t give any quotes or repeat anything specific he said that indicated he was liberal, just that it was her opinion. Lastly, that’s the only quote about him, and I can’t find anything anyone else said along those lines

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, January 10, 2011 9:51 AM (P)

Well, despite Nikes rather futile effort to be reasonable, I honestly don't feel that trying to discuss the matter around here has any point at the current time.

But I leave you with THIS thought.
We are, all of us, participants within the world and society which creates incidents like this, to where people like me can see them coming.

And you need to think about that, and what your participation means, and what form you want it to take.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

PEACEKEEPER

Monday, January 10, 2011 4:31 PM (P)

I look at this from over the pond and think;"Another politically motivated shooting in the good ol' US of A". I ask myself the question, "Would that happen here?" I have to say "No". Our politics are far more moderate, our gun control will not allow a 22year old to get anywhere near a gun and our culture just wouldn't stand for it.
Obviously we have had our share of total gun toting nutjobs, but over there "every" nutjob has a gun. I would be shitting myself every day if I lived there. Awful situation.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, January 10, 2011 5:52 PM (P)

It's not as bad as that, PK - and decent folk are armed too, one of the fellows who tackled the shooter was CCW, but he did not have a clean shot and made the decision to go hand to hand instead.

Thing is, the nutjobs are *still* gonna have guns, if you remove them from the hands of honest people, all you're really doing is handing them over on a plate - our society is very different in that respect.

It's still just a tool though, not applicable in all situations, nor a pancea for social ills whos resolution is an entirely different and unrelated issue, but the problem is no one wants to be reasonable about it, and those who DO want to reduce the amount of arms in our society always have motivations which preclude any cooperation from folk who get the (all too often correct!) notion that such folk want other folks to ground arms cause that makes em easier victims.

Makes no sense to blame a mere tool when it's clear to me that severe mental illness, a lack of effective, available treatment, and a culture poisoned by fear and loathing is far, FAR more responsible than any mere device, however potent, could ever be.

A nutter like this coulda caused just as much or more damage crashing his car into the crowd as that, and would we blame the availability and ubiquity of cars, then ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

PEACEKEEPER

Monday, January 10, 2011 6:06 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
It's not as bad as that, PK - and decent folk are armed too, one of the fellows who tackled the shooter was CCW, but he did not have a clean shot and made the decision to go hand to hand instead.

Thing is, the nutjobs are *still* gonna have guns, if you remove them from the hands of honest people, all you're really doing is handing them over on a plate - our society is very different in that respect.

It's still just a tool though, not applicable in all situations, nor a pancea for social ills whos resolution is an entirely different and unrelated issue, but the problem is no one wants to be reasonable about it, and those who DO want to reduce the amount of arms in our society always have motivations which preclude any cooperation from folk who get the (all too often correct!) notion that such folk want other folks to ground arms cause that makes em easier victims.

Makes no sense to blame a mere tool when it's clear to me that severe mental illness, a lack of effective, available treatment, and a culture poisoned by fear and loathing is far, FAR more responsible than any mere device, however potent, could ever be.

A nutter like this coulda caused just as much or more damage crashing his car into the crowd as that, and would we blame the availability and ubiquity of cars, then ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Well, I can appreciate the argument that anything can be used as a tool. But surely, to limit what kind of OBVIOUS tools can be used is common sense. A guy crashing a car into a crowd of people on purpose will have no escape clause. The car is easily seen, the occupant is easily identified, the amount of consequential evidence that remains after the fact is so vast that it would be virtually impossible for the assailant to get away with it even if he evaded capture at the time.
with a gun, you can hide behind a tree half a mile away, you can take out who you like and you don't even need the guts to do it face to face.
A guy having a bad day can kill who he likes without suffering the consequences of his actions. That's the big difference.

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

NIKI2

Monday, January 10, 2011 6:10 PM (P)

Unfortunately, we're stuck with our guns, PK, and just like the millions of illegal aliens, there's no viable method of getting rid of them. We're stuck with our society. And everything you said is true. There are many more who die every day that you don't hear about because they're not in the public eye; they die by ones and twos and only make the local news. That's not politics, I'm just sayin'. The vast majority of them die by guns. Much as I hate the situation, even I wouldn't call for laws against guns; it's about two hundred years too late.

Would, however, like to know how someone with a felony record and a mental-disorder record could buy one...not that it surprises me, but if we can't do the absolute minimum to keep them out of the hands of someone like that...

Thank BOTH of you for adding something substantive to this disaster of a thread. You're right, Frem, there's no viable discussion possible, this thread should be left to die a quiet death.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

WULFENSTAR

Monday, January 10, 2011 6:15 PM (P)

Hard to watch, but important I believe.

The father of the 9 year old who was killed says that we must NOT inpinge or infringe on our freedoms any further.

That takes guts. It takes courage. Its also a poignant reminder of who we are as a people.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

PEACEKEEPER

Monday, January 10, 2011 6:22 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Hard to watch, but important I believe.

The father of the 9 year old who was killed says that we must NOT inpinge or infringe on our freedoms any further.

That takes guts. It takes courage. Its also a poignant reminder of who we are as a people.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Without trying to demean the poor man, that will basically mean that he has the right to pick up his own gun and retaliate likewise.And then it spirals. I appreciate the horse has already bolted, but you can still put a bigger stable door further down the paddock, if you catch my drift.
And I never really take an awful lot of notice of people who speak after a massive trauma such as that. Cogent argument only occurs when emotions have cooled.
Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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