Why Serenity II is not being made.

POSTED BY: TECHTREKKER
UPDATED: Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:08
VIEWED: 33653
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TECHTREKKER

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:09 AM

For the longest time, I've wondered why in the verse Fox or Universal has not done a sequel, even one to DVD when obviously there is a hard core fan base out there globally. As Jayne said: "It just doesn't make any sense."

This article that I found on Io9 answers some of my questions:

http://io9.com/5747305/how-much-money-does-a-movie-need-to-make-to-be-
profitable?skyline=true&s=i

To paraphrase Mal at the end of the same episode... "It ain't about what we want it's about what they want:" And that is a sure thing to make money.

If a sequel was made for let's say 50 million dollars, that means, according to this article, the movie would have to make at roughly twice as much in box office and DVD sales to just make their money back.

With that daunting number out there in front, will Serenity II ever be made? Will there ever be a producer that is steely enough to take that chance again?

Thoughts?

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 2:35 AM

Yep. I got yelled at for trying to explain some of this stuff to people back then....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TECHTREKKER

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 4:16 AM

I personally would like be optimistic and say YES. It will eventually be made. Just hope it is in my life time.

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 5:16 AM

Well, I know people won't approve of this but ... I don't think that I, personally, want to see a sequel. I didn't like the BDM, so a BDM2 just doesn't appeal to me. I know that many others like it so this article is disappointing to them. I guess its just a matter of opinion, I'd never say people are wrong for liking it and wanting another, I just don't fancy it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

SULIEN

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:09 AM

*sigh* Why is it that no sci-fi fans ever win the Mega Millions lottery jackpot? I'd bankroll Serenity II if I hit it big, that's for certain. Come to think of it, it's a pity Bill Gates isn't a Browncoat. :-/

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 3:34 PM

I really wonder about a made for TV movie or mini-series. It seems like a good percentage of nerdy internet folks are at least casual fans of Firefly. I'd think just the announcement alone would set the internet on fire for a few weeks. The non-fans would have to wonder what it is everyone is suddenly so excited for. That should boost DVD sales and the movie or mini-series would be an event with a lot of buzz around it. I'd think that would be worth it. Maybe our fanbase isn't strong enough for an ongoing series, but I'd bet that most fans would tune in for a one night or one week event.

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I really wonder about a made for TV movie or mini-series.

I agree with you about a TV movie. SyFy Network has done two original movies with Firefly actors: Mothman with Jewel Staite and Sands of Oblivion with Morena Baccarin and Adam Baldwin. Both Mothman and Sands of Oblivion received a measly 3.6 stars out of a possible 10. www.imdb.com/title/tt1514425/ www.imdb.com/title/tt0977663/

The problem with the movies wasn't low budget, although more money wouldn't have hurt. It was terrible scripts. With an adequate FIREFLY script, SyFy could broadcast a 7 star movie. In their other writing projects, the writers for these two movies (Sonny Lee, Patrick Walsh, Jeff Coatney, Kevin VanHook) have done some truly undistinguished work. If only Joss Whedon would go slumming and write Serenity 1½ for SyFy. . . .

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 5:40 PM

Syfy spends less on those movies than an individual episode of Firefly cost nearly a decade ago. Even a TV movie would require a bigger budget than that.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:07 PM

sooner or later, a studio exec with no creative impulse of his own and a hole to fill in his schedule will stumble across Firefly and its fan base and greenlight something. Considering how long it's already been, it'll probably be later. All we can do is hope it'll be good enough to strike gold...

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Syfy spends less on those movies than an individual episode of Firefly cost nearly a decade ago. Even a TV movie would require a bigger budget than that.

Summer Glau did Deadly Honeymoon, a TV movie with a $1,000,000 budget. It got 5.6 stars out of 10 - www.imdb.com/title/tt1526585/ It had half the budget of a typical SyFy movie but a superior script. So . . . if we can't have Serenity 1½ on SyFy with a script by Joss Whedon, then maybe we can have Serenity ¼ with a script by Zack Whedon for a www.myLifetime.com movie. Small can be beautiful.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 6:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Syfy spends less on those movies than an individual episode of Firefly cost nearly a decade ago. Even a TV movie would require a bigger budget than that.
Summer Glau did Deadly Honeymoon, a TV movie with a $1,000,000 budget. It got 5.6 stars out of 10 - www.imdb.com/title/tt1526585/ It had half the budget of a typical SyFy movie but a superior script. So . . . if we can't have Serenity 1½ on SyFy with a script by Joss Whedon, then maybe we can have Serenity ¼ with a script by Zack Whedon for a www.myLifetime.com movie. Small can be beautiful.

.....*sigh*

Unless you want them to recast the crew and built the ship out of cardboard It. Will. Cost. More.

Period.

Having a great script doesn't make the other stuff cheaper. Comparisons to small films, with simple sets and a small cast are retarded - they're not the same, even if it featured Summer.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 7:08 PM

Well we've already dropped two major cast members. So, that should cut casting costs a bit. They could do a movie that is just all shot planet side with no scenes on the ship. It would be a little sad not to see it, but I'd be ok with it for one movie.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Well we've already dropped two major cast members. So, that should cut casting costs a bit. They could do a movie that is just all shot planet side with no scenes on the ship. It would be a little sad not to see it, but I'd be ok with it for one movie.

Sure, but that still leaves 7 main cast members. Say you pay them each 100 grand (probably a reasonable rate for some of them, well below what others are used to) 3/4 of a million right there. You still have to pay the license fee (as Syfy doesn't own the property), cover pre-productions (designs, storyboards, pay the writer, etc) pay the crew, insure the production, rent locations or sets, transport everyone, feed everyone, rent or buy costumes and props, then there's post production, music, FX and so forth.

Half the crew, sitting in their knickers in a sand wash talking for 90 minutes would cost a million. Just the way it is.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
.....*sigh*

Unless you want them to recast the crew and built the ship out of cardboard. It. Will. Cost. More. Period.

Having a great script doesn't make the other stuff cheaper. Comparisons to small films, with simple sets and a small cast are retarded - they're not the same, even if it featured Summer.

You're thinking too big. A Serenity movie could be done without building a Firefly set. Start with the zero budget R. Tam Sessions, where River murders a doctor at the Alliance institute. That could be the opening for the movie. Add a legless ex-soldier with prosthetic legs (call her Sarge, an otherwise unnamed original character) who covers up the murder. You didn't expect Dr. Mathias to do his own dirty work? Stealing directly from Avatar, Dr. Mathias is promising Sarge new legs for her cooperation with his evil plans. Every movie needs two villains.

Sarge will eventually: recapture River when she later escapes the institution on her own, teach River to fight, choose the safe words in Russian that make River sleep, and, finally, be the pilot who lifts Simon and River out of the secret Alliance facility. The plot is how River causes Sarge to sympathize with River's plight. Every movie needs a character arc. Sarge is that character.

Almost forgot, River does her mind reading act before members of Parliament. They are feeling weird after hearing what she says.

In the epilogue, Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Kaylee, Inara get their one minute long cameo appearance in the shipyard. It is Sarge who is flying the salvage ship that is carrying the damaged Serenity. The movie's entire computer graphics budget is spent on this scene and the one where Sarge pulls up her pant leg to show her cybernetic legs.

Most everything in this movie happens underground in the secret Alliance facility or at some low rent bars where Sarge meets Simon to plot the escape. Very simple and cheap sets. And that's how you think about an ultra low budget sequel to Serenity.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
.....*sigh*

Unless you want them to recast the crew and built the ship out of cardboard. It. Will. Cost. More.

Period.

Having a great script doesn't make the other stuff cheaper. Comparisons to small films, with simple sets and a small cast are retarded - they're not the same, even if it featured Summer.
You're thinking too big. A Serenity movie could be done without building a Firefly set. Start with the zero budget R. Tam Sessions, where River murders a doctor at the Alliance institute. That could be the opening for the movie. Add a legless ex-soldier with prosthetic legs (call her Sarge, an otherwise unnamed original character) who covers up the murder. You didn't expect Dr. Mathias to do his own dirty work? Stealing directly from Avatar, Dr. Mathias is promising Sarge new legs for her cooperation with his evil plans. Every movie needs two villains.

Sarge will eventually: recapture River when she later escapes the institution on her own, teach River to fight, choose the safe words in Russian that make River sleep, and, finally, be the pilot who lifts Simon and River out of the secret Alliance facility. The plot is how River causes Sarge to sympathize with River's plight. Every movie needs a character arc. Sarge is that character.

In the epilogue, Mal, Zoe, Jayne, Kaylee, Inara get their one minute long cameo appearance in the shipyard. It is Sarge who is flying the salvage ship that is carrying the damaged Serenity. The movie's entire computer graphics budget is spent on this scene and the one where Sarge pulls up her pant leg to show her cybernetic legs.

Most everything in this movie happens underground in the secret Alliance facility or at some low rent bars where Sarge meets Simon to plot the escape. Very simple and cheap sets. And that's how you think about an ultra low budget sequel to Serenity.

Yeah, lets do a lame story on a nothing budget ensuring it'll look like crap. That'll go a long way to saving the verse.

Having a different ship still... you know.... requires a set.

I'd rather no more, than crappy more.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:14 PM

River could have a long scene with members of Parliament. She could become completely unhinged and scare them with her knowledge of their pettiness: marital infidelities, cheating on taxes, poisoning the neighbor's dog, something nasty for each one of them. That could be fun to watch if it is well acted. Everybody hates politicians.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:26 PM

And would parlaiment be set in a bar, too? Played by cardboard cutouts?

Maybe Summer's stalkers would be content with a half-assed "movie" that consists of her in a dark room rambling on about the love lives of politicians, but it sounds like utter dreck to me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 8:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And would parlaiment be set in a bar, too? Played by cardboard cutouts?

Retired politicians like Schwarzenegger (a Terminator actor doing a favor for Terminator actress) could play the members of the Alliance Parliament. River punches them in the face. Every one of them leaves the conference room at Universal Studios with a bloody nose. Is that enough to satisfy your need for violence? If not, then maybe some gunshots. Bullets are popular in TV movies.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And would parlaiment be set in a bar, too? Played by cardboard cutouts?

Maybe Summer's stalkers would be content with a half-assed "movie" that consists of her in a dark room rambling on about the love lives of politicians, but it sounds like utter dreck to me.

Start with this:

Add this:

And this:

Film it with stop-motion action using this:

Find and update an old used script:

There, I just made Serenity II for $ 112.49

Everybody wins....yeah!

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I'd rather no more, than crappy more.

That's the difference I'd rather see something come out and just see what kind of response there is. I don't care if it's "a very merry Serenity Christmas" and it's just a silly christmas movie set in River's mind with the crew all playing parts in a hallmarkesque story. Just get some reason to get the cast back together and see if there is really a hidden pile of fans out there somewhere.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:14 PM

I refer you to the last X-Files movie...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I refer you to the last X-Files movie...

Never watched any x-files movie or tv show.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:34 PM

Point being, it was a huge show, with a huge following. After taking several years off, with the main storyline left dangling, they do a movie that's a cheap, simple one-off story. The fans were pissed that it didn't advance anything, non-fans were completely disinterested, and it flopped. Essentially killing the franchise, even though next year is the year the main storyline was supposed to wrap up, and even though the stars and creator are game, and the fans want to see that story - the studio won't finance it because the cheapie flopped.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 9:39 PM

I'm fine with that. If it flops it flops. At least we get a shot and we get some more Firefly/Serenity. That's more than we've got now.

STORYMARK

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 11:19 PM

I'd still rather stick with the solid run we have than get some shoddy POS the soils the whole thing. Babylon 5 The Lost Tales is also a good example. Sure, it was more - but it sucked so bad that JMS regrests doing it, no one really likes it, and it leaves a great story ending with a piece of junk.

Quality over quantity.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Tuesday, February 1, 2011 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I refer you to the last X-Files movie... Point being, it was a huge show, with a huge following. After taking several years off, with the main storyline left dangling, they do a movie that's a cheap, simple one-off story. The fans were pissed that it didn't advance anything, non-fans were completely disinterested, and it flopped. Essentially killing the franchise, even though next year is the year the main storyline was supposed to wrap up, and even though the stars and creator are game, and the fans want to see that story - the studio won't finance it because the cheapie flopped.

The X-Files Movie about the psychic pedophile priest was the wrong example to prove your point about cheapness killing a franchise. It cost $30,000,000 to make. Two word explanation for its failure: pedophile priest. All the blame is on Chris Carter's script and direction. What studio will finance more of his movies? His following movie, self-financed, was the semi-autobiographical Fencewalker, which hasn't been released almost two years after filming was completed. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencewalker

“Scully and Mulder are brought together again when a special case requires Mulder's expertise, and Scully is prevailed upon to find him. The case involves a pedophile priest who claims he is having psychic visions regarding the whereabouts of a missing FBI agent.” - www.imdb.com/title/tt1251753/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I refer you to the last X-Files movie... Point being, it was a huge show, with a huge following. After taking several years off, with the main storyline left dangling, they do a movie that's a cheap, simple one-off story. The fans were pissed that it didn't advance anything, non-fans were completely disinterested, and it flopped. Essentially killing the franchise, even though next year is the year the main storyline was supposed to wrap up, and even though the stars and creator are game, and the fans want to see that story - the studio won't finance it because the cheapie flopped.
The X-Files Movie about the psychic pedophile priest was the wrong example to prove your point about cheapness killing a franchise. It cost $30,000,000 to make. Two word explanation for its failure: pedophile priest. All the blame is on Chris Carter's script and direction. What studio will finance more of his movies? His following movie, self-financed, was the semi-autobiographical Fencewalker, which hasn't been released almost two years after filming was completed. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencewalker

A tepid argument at best. The pedo priest was not an element that was advertised, so the general audience was unaware of it (as most people don't look into the details of plot in advance). Besides, the show tackled uncomfortable themes plenty of times, so the core audience wouldn't have had much issue there. You're guessing, at best.

Blaming the script and direction is nonsensical, as people didn't show up to see how good or bad either were in the first place. His next film is irrelevant (and I'd point out Joss' next film has gone unreleased, as well).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 1:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Blaming the script and direction is nonsensical, as people didn't show up to see how good or bad either were in the first place.

How do you claim the X-file script is not to blame?: Scully brings in Mulder, but detests the old priest's crimes and thinks he is a fraud. Mulder, of course, wants to believe Father Joe could help on the case. But hold on one second. Even assuming that Father Joe planted the severed arm himself, you'll have to admit it's astonishing that he can lead agents to its exact resting place in a snow-covered terrain the size of several football fields, with no landmarks. Even before he started weeping blood instead of tears, I believed him. Scully keeps right on insulting him right to his face. She wants not to believe. She is suppose to be the rational skeptic. Why did she change into a knuckle-head for this movie?

Scully is emotionally involved in the case of a young boy who will certainly die if he doesn't have a risky experimental bone marrow treatment. This case is irrelevant to the rest of the plot except that it inspires a Google search that offers a fateful clue. Apart from that, what we're faced with is a series of victims, and eventually Mulder himself, who are run off the road by a weirdo with a snowplow.

Who is doing this? And why does Father Joe keep getting psychic signals of barking dogs? And is the missing agent still alive, as he thinks she is? And won't anyone listen to Mulder, who eventually finds himself all alone in the middle of a blizzard, being run off the road, and then approaching a suspicious building complex after losing his cell phone? And how does he deal with a barking dog?

The evildoers are inept; they receive bills for medical supplies under their own names, and surely there must be more efficient ways to abduct victims and purchase animal tranquilizers. And the wrong-headedness of Scully so frustrating, and the FBI bureaucracy so stupid...

The X-file movie did badly at the boxoffice because the story stunk, not because it was made for less than US$30,000,000. The next Firefly made-for-TV movie better have a good script or else that one thing, all alone, will ruin Firefly forever.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

INVADERCHAT

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 2:36 AM

Well I'm with STORYMARK on this one, I'd rather have no more at all than some cheap crap spoiling what Firefly is right now. Additionally, Schwarzenegger and 'low budget' should probably not be mentioned in the same sentence, quality productions cost money and if there was going to be a Firefly ANYTHING then I would want quality.

I mean, how much did Dr. Horrible cost? Wasn't that like a quarter of a million or something without licensing, distribution and with the actors working for free?

And WTF!? Firefly without seeing Serenity? No thankyou. And that means rebuilding the sets, the startup costs of anything decent would be pretty big, not to mention actually coordinating everyone to come back to the show.

I can't think of anything worse than a poorly done, low budget piece of crap that would ultimately seal the fate of Firefly firmly in the dustbin. If it's going to be done, it needs to be done right.

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 6:47 AM

TWO, I know everyone dissed on your idea, and I think you were just kidding, but if someone wrote that story over at fanfiction.net where I read, I would actually give it a go, try it out. Whether I finished it would depend on how well its written, but I'd try it.

I think Firefly fans seek a way for the verse to go on longer. There are various ways of doing this: Playing the Serenity pretend, doing fan films like Browncoats Redemption, connecting with other browncoats either locally or online, participating in other fan projects like The Signal online, reading or writing fanfic. There are lots of ways to do it. So the verse can go on, its just a matter of finding out how to acomplish that for oneself.

I'm still not really interested in BDM2.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

VERASAMUELS

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 9:00 AM

1. Check out Browncoats: Redemption. It even has some BDHs in cameos [GG]

2. Dr Horrible is a good model.

3. Even more so, 'Sanctuary'. Started out as a CGI heavy but innovative pay-per-view download from the web. Now about to enter its 3rd season on Syfy.

4. I suggest, not so much Serenity 2 as 'Tales from the 'verse'. Webisodes with one or more actors, gradually painting a picture of an event or series of events from different standpoints. Who is telling the truth? Who is hiding something? Who got the wrong end of the stick? Who holds the vital pieces of the puzzle?

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

TWO

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 3:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
TWO, I know everyone dissed on your idea, and I think you were just kidding, but if someone wrote that story over at fanfiction.net where I read, I would actually give it a go, try it out. Whether I finished it would depend on how well its written, but I'd try it.

I was serious about the Serenity story - an employee of Dr. Mathias switches loyalties, contacts Simon, and flys the helicopter that rescues River from the Alliance Institute. Because everybody hates politicians, I think it would be fun to watch River embarrassing a roomful of politicians that have come to see the psychic in action. I wanted to show 'Storymark' that a Serenity movie could be made without filming all 9 original actors for 6 weeks and without Nathan Fillion and Summer Glau spending months in fight training.

The story only needs a good script. A made-for-TV Serenity movie on a SyFy budget is too small to attract Joss Whedon to write it. That is unfortunate because SyFy would probably let a camera operator who wants to supplement his income write the hack-spectacular script, which would prove Storymark's claim that cheap movies are bad and would destroy the Firefly franchise.

I spent $25.90 for the Remastered Browncoats Redemption Remastered Deluxe Edition shipping April 2011. http://shop.browncoatsmovie.com/ That is my contribition to supporting small films.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

ZEEK

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 5:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
Well I'm with STORYMARK on this one, I'd rather have no more at all than some cheap crap spoiling what Firefly is right now. Additionally, Schwarzenegger and 'low budget' should probably not be mentioned in the same sentence, quality productions cost money and if there was going to be a Firefly ANYTHING then I would want quality.

I mean, how much did Dr. Horrible cost? Wasn't that like a quarter of a million or something without licensing, distribution and with the actors working for free?

And WTF!? Firefly without seeing Serenity? No thankyou. And that means rebuilding the sets, the startup costs of anything decent would be pretty big, not to mention actually coordinating everyone to come back to the show.

I can't think of anything worse than a poorly done, low budget piece of crap that would ultimately seal the fate of Firefly firmly in the dustbin. If it's going to be done, it needs to be done right.

Why would it have to spoil things? You think the more money spent on a production the better it is? Seems like movie reviews and awards shows would have a really easy time were that the case.

I don't see why something new would necessarily ruin what we already have anyway. I mean I don't particularly care for any of the comic books. I read them once and that's enough for me. The only one that I feel has any impact on what came before it is Shepherd's Tale. The others have been more self contained and easier to just forget about IMO.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
You think the more money spent on a production the better it is?

That's a straw man. No one said that. But the fact is, productions cost a lot, Science fiction being one of the most costly. Anyone who knows anything about production knows that unless it is just a few people (not known actors to boot) sitting around in a room talking, a film is going to cost more than a million dollars. In the film world 10 million is considered ultra low budget. A million is considered a micro-budget. Be realistic.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Wednesday, February 2, 2011 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
How do you claim the X-file script is not to blame?:

I already answered that. People don't know if something is well written or not unless they see it, and very few did. Giving me a synopsis is missing the point completely. I know the story, I saw it.

Rule of thumb in the industry is that opening weekend is about the marketing - because no one has seen the damned thing, and can't judge the content. This is why crappy movies with good trailers open huge then taper off. If they continue to draw crowd, then it's attributed to word of mouth - which equals people liking the story. But that can't happen until people actually see it.

And the vast majority of filmgoers are not people who scour the internet for plot points. No one here is a general viewer.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, February 3, 2011 12:39 AM

TWO, like I said I'd read your story if you wrote it, if you do, include some bits inbetween your main plot about the other Firefly charactors flying around, Simon trying to get River out etc. I will read that story and probably enjoy it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 1:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
People don't know if something is well written or not unless they see it, and very few did. Giving me a synopsis is missing the point completely. I know the story, I saw it.

Rule of thumb in the industry is that opening weekend is about the marketing - because no one has seen the damned thing, and can't judge the content. This is why crappy movies with good trailers open huge then taper off. If they continue to draw crowd, then it's attributed to word of mouth - which equals people liking the story. But that can't happen until people actually see it.

And the vast majority of filmgoers are not people who scour the internet for plot points. No one here is a general viewer.

X Files (2008) failed because Chris Carter, the scriptwriter, pulled down his pants and mooned the audience. Way to go, Chris, you lazy writer. Carter left plot holes and logic slippages all over X Files. TV writers think mistakes will be ignored. No, they won't. When it's not free TV, when it's paid movies, audience's suspension of disbelief only stretches so far before it breaks. Since nobody here but 'Storymark' and me saw X Files, I choose an example from Serenity of a TV writer's mistake. I can show you from an early script that Joss Whedon knew it was a mistake but, surprisingly, he turned around and did it anyway.

Mal and the Operative are standing on the same platform, close enough to pee on the other's boots. Mal shoots the Operative's gun out of his hand. Does Mal then kill the Operative? Mal is a gentleman and wishes that the movie not end just yet. Unbelievable TV tripe in a movie! Joss Whedon originally wrote it with Mal and the Operative standing on two different platforms. Mal could not crossover to kill the Operative. That's believable. See page 171 of the 190 page Serenity script.

I do not know why Joss moved the Operative closer to Mal for their shoot out, but I know that was a mistake. I think most of the audience noticed.

X Files failed at the boxoffice because the script sucked and I got a related theory about why Pixar cartoons have all done well, so far. Pixar cartoons don't have stories where the writers do something stupid or senseless, like they do writing TV shows. That is probably because Pixar takes two years working on the pencil and paper storyboards. Mistakes are fixed before they ruin the cartoon. I think if live action writers were as careful as Pixar, fewer movies would stink. Too bad that ain't gonna happen. Hollywood is a sad world of anxious adults in a hurry.

Were a small, low budget Serenity II to be made, it would need a really good script. Probably need the good script far more than a bigger movie with lots of special effects and fight scenes to distract everyone from the underlying story.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:50 PM

Quote:
I do not know why Joss moved the Operative closer to Mal for their shoot out, but I know that was a mistake. I think most of the audience noticed.

? I didn't think it was that big of a mistake. Mal was 1) focused on getting the broadwave out, 2) had to get across the gap anyway, 3) knew that the Operative wears body armor, 4) knew that the Operative is better with hand to hand combat, and needed to get the hell away long enough to to shoot him, 5) didn't know the Operative had stumbled across Mr. Universe's message and knew what he was planning, and 6) figured the Operative would be confused by his apparently insane decision to cross the gap. One of Mal's favourite strategies, seen in all the war time flashbacks in the series, is to be so unpredictable that he catches his enemies off guard.

Unfortunately, the Operative's anger over Mal's trick with the Reavers and number 5) meant the Operative did attack him, and nearly succeeded in knocking him into a spinning rotor. Yikes.

MIKED

Thursday, February 3, 2011 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
X Files failed at the boxoffice because the script sucked and I got a related theory about why Pixar cartoons have all done well, so far. Pixar cartoons don't have stories where the writers do something stupid or senseless, like they do writing TV shows. That is probably because Pixar takes two years working on the pencil and paper storyboards. Mistakes are fixed before they ruin the cartoon. I think if live action writers were as careful as Pixar, fewer movies would stink. Too bad that ain't gonna happen. Hollywood is a sad world of anxious adults in a hurry.

The only issue with the Pixar example is that yes you can story board every angle to make sure it will look amazing and yes you can work the script out so that, on paper, it looks good and works, but the element you can't control, and fully see till the editing room, is the actors performance. With animation they have hours of takes of just one line in all it's various inflections. Asking actors to take that kind of performance in a movie is time consuming and costly. Even with that, the wrong actor can make a great script shity and a great actor can make a shity script better, but until it's all done...you just don't know. Most filming isn't done sequentially so the full weight, or mess, of an actors performance won't be seen till after it's being edited. By then when you notice something just isn't working it's going to cost you more money to go back and do reshoots.

Hollywood's biggest problem is the marketing budget is just as big, if not bigger, than the actual cost of the film. So what would be a good movie, like Serenity(flaws and all), is seen as a "flop" because it didn't live up to the over inflated budget.

ZEEK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
You think the more money spent on a production the better it is?

That's a straw man. No one said that.

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
I'd rather have no more at all than some cheap crap spoiling what Firefly is right now.

Maybe InvaderChat didn't say the more money the better but he did say the less money the crappier. Therefore if you take money away and make the movie crappier than as you add money you must be taking the crappy away. Which would seem to be making it better.

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
I do not know why Joss moved the Operative closer to Mal for their shoot out, but I know that was a mistake. I think most of the audience noticed.

? I didn't think it was that big of a mistake. Mal was 1) focused on getting the broadwave out, 2) had to get across the gap anyway, 3) knew that the Operative wears body armor, 4) knew that the Operative is better with hand to hand combat, and needed to get the hell away long enough to to shoot him, 5) didn't know the Operative had stumbled across Mr. Universe's message and knew what he was planning, and 6) figured the Operative would be confused by his apparently insane decision to cross the gap. One of Mal's favourite strategies, seen in all the war time flashbacks in the series, is to be so unpredictable that he catches his enemies off guard.

The Operative's head wasn't armored. Mal had disarmed the Operative. Only if Mal had walked forward and shot the unarmed Operative dead could Mal cross to the message panel without the worry of a crazy Operative killing him from behind. If Mal is a real soldier, the Operative is dead dead dead. If Mal is a TV writer's toy soldier, then anything can happen - even having Mal turn his defenseless back toward an assassin. There's only one choice for a real soldier - kill the Operative now, not later.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:02 PM

OR, because the Operative is better at hand to hand combat, Mal thought he might have ended up disarmed himself if he stayed nearby much longer, and potentially tackled off the platform.

You can shoot someone in the head, but he shot the gun out of the Operative's hand first, which was a bigger concern at the time. Guns have recoil, and unless you're River, it's very hard to get two very precise shots, one to disarm another gun, and then a headshot, off fast enough that that the recoil doesn't become a factor. They're close enough together that the Operative could have charged Mal during the recoil. So Mal retreated.

Yes, I was considering Mal trying for a headshot in the previous post. It still doesn't work, the Operative is just too good, it falls under point number 4.

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
OR, because the Operative is better at hand to hand combat, Mal thought he might have ended up disarmed himself if he stayed nearby much longer, and potentially tackled off the platform.

You can shoot someone in the head, but he shot the gun out of the Operative's hand first, which was a bigger concern at the time. Guns have recoil, and unless you're River, it's very hard to get two very precise shots, one to disarm another gun, and then a headshot, off fast enough that that the recoil doesn't become a factor. They're close enough together that the Operative could have charged Mal during the recoil. So Mal retreated.

Yes, I was considering Mal trying for a headshot in the previous post. It still doesn't work, the Operative is just too good, it falls under point number 4.

That is make believe. That is excuse making. The only realistic tactic for a soldier is for Mal to try to kill the Operative immediately. Whether he succeeds depends on Mal. Mal is arrogant enough and angry enough to try. But Joss wanted the ultimate battle in a more picturesque location. And he wanted the Operative to use the pinch of death, used on Dr. Mathias. Joss wants Mal to be a toy soldier.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:28 PM

If he tried to kill the Operative immediately, he would have been shot, and very likely killed.

Mal has an excellent quickdraw, but he had two options to go for, the gun, or the Operative's head. He went for the gun, and lost his chance to go for the head.

It's not make believe, it's reality. Mal already exceeds the believability for improbable aiming skills, to shoot the gun out of the Operative's hand and then shoot the Operative in the head, in short order, not only makes the Operative look incompetent (which he is not), but would be IMPOSSIBLE.

This is the reason why River does what she does in War Stories is so impressive. It's impossible to do. Kaylee even tells Mal in Objects in Space that she doesn't think even HE could do what River did, and she's right.

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:38 PM

The Operative knew the Wushu Finger Hold. He had seen Kung Fu Panda. Mal had not. Mal could only win with trickery.
(The Operative is the Panda. Mal is the Leopard.)

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 4:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
You think the more money spent on a production the better it is?

That's a straw man. No one said that.

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
I'd rather have no more at all than some cheap crap spoiling what Firefly is right now.

Maybe InvaderChat didn't say the more money the better but he did say the less money the crappier. Therefore if you take money away and make the movie crappier than as you add money you must be taking the crappy away. Which would seem to be making it better.

Ok, go ahead and list the good scifi movies made in the last decade for a million bucks...

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
X Files (2008) failed because Chris Carter, the scriptwriter, pulled down his pants and mooned the audience. Way to go, Chris, you lazy writer. Carter left plot holes and logic slippages all over X Files. TV writers think mistakes will be ignored.

You opinion of the show is irrelevant. It was a hit, a big one, so much so that it dwarfs Firefly by comparison.

The rest of your "analysis" is.... questionable at best. For instance, ALL aminated films are fully boarded in advance.... even the bad ones. That's how that process works.

Yes, a Serenity II would need a good script. And good scripts tend to require money to make well.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Ok, go ahead and list the good scifi movies made in the last decade for a million bucks...

Wow that's as close to an apology as I've ever seen you make. You're growing as a person. fff.net magic!

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Ok, go ahead and list the good scifi movies made in the last decade for a million bucks...

Wow that's as close to an apology as I've ever seen you make. You're growing as a person. fff.net magic!

Then you havn't paid much attention. I have apologized many times when I'm wrong.

Im not apologizing here. Because I know what I'm talking about. I just helped prep a movie with a million dollar budget. It doesn't go very far, and that was with no special effects, simple locations, and an all d-list and lower cast.

Still waiting for that list.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

ZEEK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:08 PM

Making up a million dollar constraint is just silly. I thought you realized that and it was a joke. I never said a million dollar movie. But it doesn't need to be 45 million either. It also doesn't need to be scifi IMO. As I said they could shoot a whole movie off ship on one of the outer rim planets. The sets could be regular looking locations. They could cut a ton on special effects and on rebuilding all the Serenity sets and I'd be perfectly fine with it.

INVADERPET87

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:18 PM

I can do you one better.... sock puppets!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And would parlaiment be set in a bar, too? Played by cardboard cutouts?

Maybe Summer's stalkers would be content with a half-assed "movie" that consists of her in a dark room rambling on about the love lives of politicians, but it sounds like utter dreck to me.

Start with this:

Add this:

And this:

Film it with stop-motion action using this:

Find and update an old used script:

There, I just made Serenity II for $ 112.49

Everybody wins....yeah!

"She understands. She doesn't comprehend."

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 5:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Making up a million dollar constraint is just silly. I thought you realized that and it was a joke. I never said a million dollar movie. But it doesn't need to be 45 million either. It also doesn't need to be scifi IMO. As I said they could shoot a whole movie off ship on one of the outer rim planets. The sets could be regular looking locations. They could cut a ton on special effects and on rebuilding all the Serenity sets and I'd be perfectly fine with it.

You may not have, but Two did, and that was the criteria upon which the conversation had hinged. But you're right, you hadn't said it, I was just running with the prior criteria, so (here ya go) I apologize on that front.

Sure, they could do a plain western with none of the scifi, but that's not what Firefly/Serenity is, nor do I think Joss would want to make such a truncated and compromised version of his story. Remember, at 30 million, Serenity was already considered to be pretty low budget.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 7:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Im not apologizing here. Because I know what I'm talking about. I just helped prep a movie with a million dollar budget. It doesn't go very far, and that was with no special effects, simple locations, and an all d-list and lower cast.

What is the name of the movie? Where is it on imdb.com?

Oh: SyFy movies are $2,000,000. Morena Baccarin and Jewel Staite made one each.
MyLifetime movies are $1,000,000. Summer Glau made one in Hawaii. Not science fiction but it did have special effects to put the staterooms out to sea and to move a landlocked swimming pool onto an oceanliner.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 8:23 PM

The movie is/was called SLASH, and has Patricia Tillman (Babylon 5), Clare Grant (The Gates, Seth Green's wife) and Holly Madison (That Playboy reality show) attached, amongst others. But the original funding source is in question now, so the producers are talking about going to Lionsgate rather than financing it independently.

I'm credited as co-writer (though to be honest, I don't care much for the script, I wasn't allowed to do many of the changes I felt it needed), and may end of being the production designer as well. I'd give you the direct IMDB link, but I can't access the site from work. There are several films with that title, but ours is the most recent listing.

Syfy movies run between 1-2 million, so it depends. But most of those have 1 recognizable B or C list actor, with everyone else being unknowns for the most part. They also tend to have amateur or low level writers and directors. You know, to get a good script - writers like to be paid. Your example of the Hawaiian movie may have had FX, but from what you describe, they were just set extensions - which is one of the easiest to do. I could do that on my home PC in an hour or two.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Thursday, February 3, 2011 8:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
The movie is/was called SLASH, and has Patricia Tillman (Babylon 5), Clare Grant (The Gates, Seth Green's wife) and Holly Madison (That Playboy reality show) attached, amongst others. But the original funding source is in question now, so the producers are talking about going to Lionsgate rather than financing it independently.

I'm credited as co-writer (though to be honest, I don't care much for the script, I wasn't allowed to do many of the changes I felt it needed), and may end of being the production designer as well. I'd give you the direct IMDB link, but I can't access the site from work. There are several films with that title, but ours is the most recent listing.

Syfy movies run between 1-2 million, so it depends. But most of those have 1 recognizable B or C list actor, with everyone else being unknowns for the most part. They also tend to have amateur or low level writers and directors. You know, to get a good script - writers like to be paid. Your example of the Hawaiian movie may have had FX, but from what you describe, they were just set extensions - which is one of the easiest to do. I could do that on my home PC in an hour or two.

www.imdb.com/title/tt1506455/

Slash (2011)
R 100 min - Horror | Thriller - Filming summer 2011 (USA)
Release Date: 29 October 2011 (USA)
Budget: $1,000,000 (estimated)

Cade wants a normal life, but his moody step-brother drags him though increasingly violent fantasies as a series of real murders occur. Cade's apathy culminates into a manic party, where Cade must finally face his demons, or die trying.

Director: Rycke Foreman
Writers: Rycke Foreman, Jeremy Orr
Stars: Jillian Murray, Clare Grant and Todd Farmer

Plot Summary for Slash (2011)
Walter Sickert beats on the door in a drunken rage as his son Trench and step-son, Cade, cower inside the house. But Trench has a shotgun. He antagonizes his dad, who breaks down the door, coming in shooting. Trench blows him away, cracking a wicked grin. Trench, Rachel's boyfriend, shows up with dinner, though he's not supposed to be there. Inside, they continue to plot and prank as they eat, Trench going deadly with his idea, and Liz Stride, the stage manager, busts them, kicking Trench out. Onstage, they rehearse the Coffee/Dwyer murder scene with Kareem Cream and Annie Chapman, directed by Monte Druitt, in which Cade is The Ripper. Polly digs on Lillith about Kenny, and Lillith bolts for the door. Cade and Rachel follow her out, but she is gone. Jack Barnett offers them a ride. Cade declines, to go look for Lillith. Trench is upset Jack took Rachel home alone. Arriving home, where a party is raging, Trench fantasizes with a reluctant Cade about killing Jack and Paul onstage, during the Koontz murder scene. In the theater, they run through the Coffee/Dwyer murder, and Cade runs offstage to find his cloak and knife. Kenny is missing.

Lesson Learned (2005)
www.imdb.com/title/tt1555834/
www.imdb.com/video/wab/vi3750167577/
www.imdb.com/name/nm3400080/
www.myspace.com/storymark

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Thursday, February 3, 2011 8:41 PM

That's the one (terrible synopsis he put there on IMDB though).

Lesson Learned, the other film linked there, is an old short of mine, that was done for a 48-hour film competition, written shot and edited in one weekend.

I'm currently working on my first distributed work, a 4 episode micro series that's a spin-off from the Highlander TV series, and will be included on the Blu Rays for the series. Some behind the scenes pics and a few screencaps can be found here:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Highlander-The-Watcher/13473274658523
6

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, February 3, 2011 11:11 PM

Made for TV movies are fun sometimes, sometimes they're fun to make fun of, but sometimes they are actually enjoyable to me. On Scifi channel I liked Thor: hammer of the gods, a few midieval ones like Book of beasts, some dragon ones, this weird not-well-presented one about the future where these people think they're the only people left and there are these creatures and they go find this yellow powder down the river held by this bad king to prevent the disease etc. A lot of these movies have gaps in their logic but honestly I find some of them entertaining and my dad and I do watch them.

One of the lamest ones was that rock monster film, with that creature made of rock, that was really silly, we couldn't handle it. We like those natural disaster ones too.

I guess I'm just way too easy to please. But a Serenity movie would have to work very hard to please me because I hold Firefly to a very specific standard, as standard that the movie flirted with messing with, so Serenity 2 would have to work double hard to get my vote as a good film. Just my opinion.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

ECGORDON

Friday, February 4, 2011 2:54 AM

When is Two going to stop trying to convince us that they know how to write a better screenplay than Joss?

If I had the inclination I could probably list hundreds of films that have confrontations between protagonist and antagonist that are equally illogical. It doesn't mean that Joss can't write a good action scene, just that he knows if it was written the way Two wanted it to be it would have negated the continued confrontation between Mal and The Operative.

The reason Serenity II is not being made (yet) is that not enough tickets were sold for the original. Period.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

TWO

Friday, February 4, 2011 4:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
When is Two going to stop trying to convince us that they know how to write a better screenplay than Joss?

. . . I could probably list hundreds of films that have confrontations between protagonist and antagonist that are equally illogical. It doesn't mean that Joss can't write a good action scene, just that he knows if it was written the way Two wanted it to be it would have negated the continued confrontation between Mal and The Operative.

There is movie in theaters, costing $15,000,000 to make, called The King's Speech. The script is riddled with gross falsifications of history having to do with Edward VIII and Nazis. Some have complained: “Churchill Didn't Say That” - www.slate.com/id/2282194/
Is it wrong to find fault with that award winning screenplay? The true story would have been fractionally more entertaining, less predictable.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

INVADERCHAT

Friday, February 4, 2011 4:41 AM

Wow, you guys are still going?

Anyway, thanks Storymark for clarifying what I said earlier and just to clarify further, I didn't say a big budget made stuff better NOR did I say a small budget makes things worse. What I was trying to say was that you have no scope on what things cost in the industry and the things you are suggesting will cost far more than you think they will. As Storymark has said, Serenity at 30 mil was considered low budget and in my opinion that was far superior to many of the big budget films coming out. And I mentioned this before but Schwarzenegger's appearance would probably cost you half of whatever budget you had.

I brought up Dr. Horribles because it was low budget AND in my opinion it was good but look at all the corners they had to cut and that STILL cost 'em a quarter of a million.

Additionally, the scene in question is set 500 years in the future in the basement of a mass broadcasting planet where an assassin has been tipped off to the location of the hero by a lifelike 'love-bot' and you have THAT to complain about? I'm pretty sure this 'Joss Whedon' guy makes a living off of writing and if he was able to magically make a Firefly/Serenity in any way decent on any budget he had available to him I think he'd try but hey, you take your plot idea there, buy the rights and go and write, cast, direct, cater, costume, film and edit your own production, I'll watch.

ZEEK

Friday, February 4, 2011 2:27 PM

It really doesn't make an argument look sound when you fall back on something silly like one of us buying the rights and producing a new movie.

I wouldn't want to see a movie or mini-series in the Firefly/Serenity universe if it wasn't written by Joss. I don't even want one if it was Tim Minear. Which is why I don't give a flip about the fan works. If Joss isn't writing or at least very closely overseeing things then it isn't Firefly IMO.

STORYMARK

Friday, February 4, 2011 5:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
When is Two going to stop trying to convince us that they know how to write a better screenplay than Joss?

. . . I could probably list hundreds of films that have confrontations between protagonist and antagonist that are equally illogical. It doesn't mean that Joss can't write a good action scene, just that he knows if it was written the way Two wanted it to be it would have negated the continued confrontation between Mal and The Operative.
There is movie in theaters, costing $15,000,000 to make, called The King's Speech. The script is riddled with gross falsifications of history having to do with Edward VIII and Nazis. Some have complained: “Churchill Didn't Say That” - www.slate.com/id/2282194/
Is it wrong to find fault with that award winning screenplay? The true story would have been fractionally more entertaining, less predictable.

No fault at all. But it's just your opinion that the script would have been better.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Friday, February 4, 2011 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

I think this is a bad trend in Hollywood, but Serenity II would be expensive because action movies must become more and more graphic if they are to penetrate our violence-hardened sensibilities. The body counts rise in action sequels: the first Die Hard movie had eighteen deaths, and the second had 264; the first Robocop movie had thirty-two deaths, and the second had eighty-one; and the three Godfather movies piled up twelve, eighteen, and fifty-three corpses respectively. Escalating the body count seems to be one way to get attention from a public punch-drunk on global mayhem.

Why bother with improving narrative logic or truth when more killings can compensate? I realize now how to improve The King's Speech - King George VI in hand-to-hand combat. With Nazis!

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

DOCTOROSSI

Friday, February 4, 2011 8:14 PM

Quote:
I think this is a bad trend in Hollywood, but Serenity II would be expensive because action movies must become more and more graphic if they are to penetrate our violence-hardened sensibilities.

I think this premise is utterly fallacious, but even if I grant it, on what evidence does increased graphic violence/body-count equate to an increased production budget?

STORYMARK

Friday, February 4, 2011 8:31 PM

Two becomes rather nonsensical when you don't go around to his way of thinking on occasion.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Friday, February 4, 2011 8:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Doctorossi:
Quote:
I think this is a bad trend in Hollywood, but Serenity II would be expensive because action movies must become more and more graphic if they are to penetrate our violence-hardened sensibilities.

I think this premise is utterly fallacious, but even if I grant it, on what evidence does increased graphic violence/body-count equate to an increased production budget?

Good to see you just signed up for fireflyfans.net, Doctorossi.

The premise is not more violence equals more cost. The formula is no violence (a lot of talk and weird sets and costumes) is cheaper than a lot of violence (rampaging cannibals destroying sets, super-stunt fights, spaceship crashes). I bet that hand made giant size model of Serenity that they crashed cost a fortune for only seconds of movie.

I was thinking that a Serenity sequel with zero violence, mentioned here www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=39&t=47379#829650 would be far cheaper than the original Serenity. But if Serenity II follows the typical Hollywood formula for action sequels, it will have more violence than the original and it won't be cheaper to make than the original.

www.screenhead.com/funny/eyecandy/serenity-crash-effects-rundown-14715
1.php

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Friday, February 4, 2011 9:03 PM

And what from Firefly.... or ANY of Joss' work, makes you think he'd WANT to do a story with NO violence??

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Friday, February 4, 2011 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And what from Firefly.... or ANY of Joss' work, makes you think he'd WANT to do a story with NO violence??

You're right. The episode I liked best, Out of Gas, did have Mal being shot in the guts. And they did burn down Serenity. Then there is Shindig, where Mal got stabbed in the guts. And they did wreck a bar. So zero violence is out. Rather than zero, let's have "cheap" violence. Broken mirrors and bloody shirts don't cost much. Crashing a giant spaceship model and crashing a flying mule carrying four actors are expensive. Joss will have to give up "expensive" violence if he wants to cut expenses. I got no reason to think he does want to.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

STORYMARK

Friday, February 4, 2011 9:37 PM

And there ya go.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

TWO

Saturday, February 5, 2011 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And there ya go.

Storymark, what do you think of a Serenity II along the same plan as Tin Man (budget $19,000,000) and Alice? Is it still too low budget to conceivably attract Joss Whedon? Both were on SyFy and ran for 3 and 2 nights, respectively. Both got 7 stars out of 10. It is a giant leap up from SyFy's Mothman with Jewel Staite (budget $2,000,000) and Sands of Oblivion with Morena Baccarin and Adam Baldwin. Both received a measly 3.6 stars out of a possible 10.

When writing a Lewis Carroll adaptation or directing an Oz remake, there is a transfinite number of ways for the not gifted to go wrong. Joss Whedon wouldn't make the blunders in these two:

Tin Man (TV 2007) www.imdb.com/title/tt0910812/
SyFy has a lengthy history of producing terrible original programming, but Tin Man is several cuts above their usual dreck. Sure, the special effects are poor and some ideas seem half-baked, but the good storytelling goes a long way towards overcoming these problems.

Alice (TV 2009) www.imdb.com/title/tt1461312/
Not too good, but hardly bad, Alice is inconsistent. Parts of it are good, but tonal inconsistencies, at times questionable production values, and unneeded subplots constantly nag the viewer.

Imagine greatness:
Serenity II
A SyFy Presentation, a Storymark Production, a Joss Whedon Film,
Copyright © 2015 SyFy Pictures
All rights reserved

Yes, a $100,000,000 budget from Universal would be lovely for Serenity II. A $19,000,000 budget from SyFy is more likely. It has been done before with Tin Man. Obvious a script for SyFy ought to be completely different than a script for Universal because there is only a fifth of the money. SyFy could not afford to destroy another model of Serenity.
www.screenhead.com/funny/eyecandy/serenity-crash-effects-rundown-14715
1.php

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

ECGORDON

Sunday, February 6, 2011 12:14 AM

Sci-Fi has a very good track record on their mini-series. Don't forget that is how the Galactica reboot started. I wouldn't mind seeing them greenlight a movie or mini, but only if Joss has control. Those dimwits at the network would try to dumb it down to just an action flick. I think a lot of the cast and crew would work for scale if they could get back together, and surely Zoic has plenty of CGI effects saved.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

DOCTOROSSI

Sunday, February 6, 2011 2:23 AM

Quote:
Good to see you just signed up for fireflyfans.net, Doctorossi.

And thanks for helping me remember my place, Two. I was beginning to think my opinion valid.

OPPYH

Sunday, February 6, 2011 6:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:

Is it wrong to find fault with that award winning screenplay? The true story would have been fractionally more entertaining, less predictable.

No, it's not wrong. But movies based on real events will always take liberties on the factual account. It is impossible not to. To what degree, depends on the screenwriter, and director. Heck, it's even getting to the point where certain documentaries are getting skewed from their respective subject.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

TWO

Sunday, February 6, 2011 8:04 PM

The King's Speech would be more entertaining if George VI gets the stutters because he knows his brother, Edward VIII, is a Nazi. It's plausible with Edward. Let the royals sue for libel if they don't like fictionalized history. 'It's only a movie' will be the legal defense. Surely that will convince a judge.

Duke and Duchess of Windsor meet Adolf Hitler 1937

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

ZEEK

Monday, February 7, 2011 3:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:

Tin Man (TV 2007) www.imdb.com/title/tt0910812/
SyFy has a lengthy history of producing terrible original programming, but Tin Man is several cuts above their usual dreck. Sure, the special effects are poor and some ideas seem half-baked, but the good storytelling goes a long way towards overcoming these problems.

I don't care what you say about the special effects, anytime they want to show flying monkeys leap out of a hot chick's chest I'm there.

I would definitely take a Serenity 2 with effects of that quality. Especially if we get the same air time as tin man. That got what like 6 hours of air time?

TWO

Tuesday, February 8, 2011 5:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
anytime they want to show flying monkeys leap out of a hot chick's chest I'm there.
I would definitely take a Serenity 2 with effects of that quality. Especially if we get the same air time as tin man. That got what like 6 hours of air time?

Tin Man was 3 episodes, 90 minutes each without commercials. Flying monkey tattoo of the Wicked Witch. Who gets the magical tattoo in Serenity II? Inara because she bares a lot of skin? River because she's weird and witchy? Kaylee because she's into tattoos? Or is it Jayne because he already has tattoos?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

AV32PRODUCTIONS

Tuesday, February 8, 2011 5:03 PM

we all have to remember how serenity got made in the first place: the fans unwillingness to give up. This more than any thing else, including dvd sales, is what got it made in the first place. Even so, i just bought two copies of serenity- collecters edition, just in case

ZEEK

Tuesday, February 8, 2011 5:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
anytime they want to show flying monkeys leap out of a hot chick's chest I'm there.
I would definitely take a Serenity 2 with effects of that quality. Especially if we get the same air time as tin man. That got what like 6 hours of air time?
Tin Man was 3 episodes, 90 minutes each without commercials. Flying monkey tattoo of the Wicked Witch. Who gets the magical tattoo in Serenity II? Inara because she bares a lot of skin? River because she's weird and witchy? Kaylee because she's into tattoos? Or is it Jayne because he already has tattoos?

Hmmm you may have inadvertently stumbled upon why Serenity 2 is not being made. If we the fans don't even have a clear choice for which character should be "boobies that shoot flying monkeys girl" then what real mass appeal do we have? I think if Joss had made Saffron a regular then the choice would be clear and we'd probably have a green light by now.

TONIROMAN

Saturday, January 7, 2012 9:34 PM

"Every one of them leaves the conference room at Universal Studios with a bloody nose. Is that enough to satisfy your need for violence? If not, then maybe some gunshots. Bullets are popular in TV movies."

I love your sarcasm -- at least with regard to violence. I often say similar things myself. I like the way you think. Possibility thinking.

It would be nice if we could collaborate on some project.

Toni Roman

"Often late to the party, don't know what is going on, and still getting up to speed.".

RIVERTAM1

Friday, March 30, 2012 2:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SULIEN:
*sigh* Why is it that no sci-fi fans ever win the Mega Millions lottery jackpot? I'd bankroll Serenity II if I hit it big, that's for certain. Come to think of it, it's a pity Bill Gates isn't a Browncoat. :-/

Well, lets convert him!

At the end of the day, it's love keeps you in the air.

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:04 PM

Zeek, I've always professed that a mini-series (for TV) made sense instead of a series, but that a movie could bring other possibilities.

Good idea!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I really wonder about a made for TV movie or mini-series. It seems like a good percentage of nerdy internet folks are at least casual fans of Firefly. I'd think just the announcement alone would set the internet on fire for a few weeks. The non-fans would have to wonder what it is everyone is suddenly so excited for. That should boost DVD sales and the movie or mini-series would be an event with a lot of buzz around it. I'd think that would be worth it. Maybe our fanbase isn't strong enough for an ongoing series, but I'd bet that most fans would tune in for a one night or one week event.

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:08 PM

That actually was good FX, hot chick made it much more interesting.
But I was disappointed overall with Tin Man. Still though, Firefly mini-series would kick ass.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
anytime they want to show flying monkeys leap out of a hot chick's chest I'm there.
I would definitely take a Serenity 2 with effects of that quality. Especially if we get the same air time as tin man. That got what like 6 hours of air time?
Tin Man was 3 episodes, 90 minutes each without commercials. Flying monkey tattoo of the Wicked Witch. Who gets the magical tattoo in Serenity II? Inara because she bares a lot of skin? River because she's weird and witchy? Kaylee because she's into tattoos? Or is it Jayne because he already has tattoos?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two