Why Firefly deserved to die
POSTED BY: xed
UPDATED: Thursday, December 19, 2024 02:34
VIEWED: 28647
PAGE 1 of 1
So Firefly's dead. We may get to see the long-touted pilot...or we may not. Either way, this series has taken the big dirt nap.
Let's run down the reasons:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault). Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode. The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?). "Out Of Gas" tried to substitute for the pilot -- did a darn good job. But way too late. Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse. "The Train Job" offers a superb example of how NOT to write a script. Start off the episode with a long irrelevant flashback involving River. (Irrelevant to this episode -- perhaps necessary for expositin down the line, but that doesn't count. Each episode must grab and HOLD the viewer's attention, else the series fails.) Bog down the episode with a long discussion with Book. Then, the minute Mal & company get ready to pull the heist on the maglev, slam the brakes on the narrative by cutting away to a long irrelevant discussion twixt Book and the companion.
Kiddies, that's bad screenwriting with a vengeance.
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what? Every episode seems to involve some new downer -- a universe in which justice never ever prevails, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer in wh ich Buffy can never slay a vamp...or even keep 'em from greasing civilians. Case in point: in "The Train Job" the supervillain on the skyplex gets away scot free. He's still out there, still hanging folks from the ceiling. Wonderful. Instead of watching "Firefly," how's 'bout I just cut my throat?
The dialogue crackles, the characters have three dimensions, and the background's wonderfully vivid & details... Alas, those strengths can't make up for the rest of this show's fatal flaws. R.I.P. Firefly. We hardly knew ye.
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Well then don't watch. But I betcha everyone on who reads this board loves the show (cause really if you didn't like the show why would you spend time trolling this board) and disagree's with you on almost all your points. So go back to your cave and leave those of us who actually like the show alone to enjoy it.
-Docebo
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Just because they've putted it on hiatus doesn't mean it's dead. I admit it doesn't look good for the show but as long as FOX doesn't announce cancelation the show is still alive and (almost) well.
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I suppose everyone is entitled to their own stupid opinion, but as far as I see it, the only reason Firefly deserves to die is the way it makes most other television seem moronic by contrast. I've seen every episode so far and not once felt depressed -- quite the opposite actually. Despite the network's bone-headed scheduling, I haven't been confused about the characters at all. In fact, my only complaint has been that the character development has seemed slightly rushed at times, a seeming necessity given the short attention spans of the network execs. The pacing on the show is wonderful.. and wonderfully atypical. Firefly is not a sitcom nor the A-team and I find it refreshing that they allow the 'action' to be interlaced with more contemplative and thought provoking dialog.
As far as your critique of the downbeat nature of the show, I couldn't disagree more. Firefly is science fiction, but it's not fantasy. The characters aren't larger than life heroes changing the epic flow of history, and everything doesn't always work out in the end. But thats exactly what makes it all so immediate and believable. They struggle with isolation, alienation, regret and rejection... the real issues all of us have to deal with in one form or another... and while you might find it depressing to consider, personally I am joyously moved to see others fighting to maintain dignity if the face of all that would drag us down.
I quite watching TV when Quantum Leap went off the air, precisely because of the trite, idiotic nature of most of the rest of television, where you can't tell the difference between drama and Pepsi commercials.. and my TV goes back in the closet if they toss Firefly aside.
SergeantX
"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith
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I agree with a large part of what Sarge said. FF does make the rest of television look a bit moronic. Everything doesn't come out fine in the end, life's challenges can't be solved in 18 minutes plus commercials. FF's characters are flawed...and fabulous. Like we all are. But it doesn't deserve to get cancelled or changed. There's bunch of us Browncoatz that like it just the way it is. I'd love to say F$%@ television demographics...but they could put a Nielsen box on every TV set and then they could see who's really watching what. And I bet they'd be surprised.
I've been'planetside'for 2 Fridays in a row now, I'm jonesin' really bad for the next ep. War Stories.
Oh yeah...and if XED is still pondering his decision whether to 'watch Firefly or slit his throat'?...maybe he can ask Jayne Cobb for the loan of his knife.
Ainein Kurogane
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Quote:
Originally posted by xed:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
So every episode is supposed to be fun and upbeat? Ever hear of Babylon 5? Ever hear of Angel? Jeremiah? X-Files? Millennium? I like the idea of a universe where it's not Star Trek, where people's rights have been taken away and government and bureaucracy rule the day. Not that I would want to live in this universe but because it creates interesting storylines and dilemnas for the characters.
Quote:
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault). Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode. The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?). "Out Of Gas" tried to substitute for the pilot -- did a darn good job. But way too late. Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
So all of the characters and their motivations are supposed to be revealed in one episode? Yes, Fox should have aired the pilot FIRST but they didn't. Personally I like the way the characters are being revealed, layer by layer. I don't want to see all the cards on the table at once. Ditto the storyline.
Quote:
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse. "The Train Job" offers a superb example of how NOT to write a script. Start off the episode with a long irrelevant flashback involving River. (Irrelevant to this episode -- perhaps necessary for expositin down the line, but that doesn't count. Each episode must grab and HOLD the viewer's attention, else the series fails.) Bog down the episode with a long discussion with Book. Then, the minute Mal & company get ready to pull the heist on the maglev, slam the brakes on the narrative by cutting away to a long irrelevant discussion twixt Book and the companion.
Kiddies, that's bad screenwriting with a vengeance.
Riiiiiiiiight, because you're a professional screenwriter, right? Is your name Joss Whedon? Joe Michael Straczynski? David E. Kelley? Alan Sorkin? Howard Gordon? Stephen Bochco? David Chase? Someone else? I take it you know all the "rules" of screenwriting and since many other people here, including me, enjoy the show and how it's written we must be stupid or something because we don't understand the innerworkings of screenwriting like you do. Can we see some examples of the work you've done? Or if you're not a screenwriter I'll assume you're a professional critic for some major media company or newspaper.
Or you could just be a troll.
Quote:
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what? Every episode seems to involve some new downer -- a universe in which justice never ever prevails, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer in wh ich Buffy can never slay a vamp...or even keep 'em from greasing civilians. Case in point: in "The Train Job" the supervillain on the skyplex gets away scot free. He's still out there, still hanging folks from the ceiling. Wonderful. Instead of watching "Firefly," how's 'bout I just cut my throat?
Writers can write whatever the hell they want to write, depressing or not. If it's what they want or need they'll put it in. Maybe we don't feel it's necessary but it's not what we want, it's what the writer wants.
We tend to put our expectations into shows and when we don't see what WE want to see we throw hissy fits, even though the writers know (or should know) what they're doing.
It's not our show. If you wa
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To quote Monty Python "I'm not dead yet!" FF's in a bad way, but Berman stressed that the show wasn't canned...yet. This is a great deal more optimistic than most. Most of the time, the suit would not go out of their way to stress that.
Quote:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
No, it isn't. Whedon said he wanted to make something about the people "history steps on." Yes, it is a tad pessimistic, but so were other shows I liked. X-Files couldn't have had a happy ending. Neither could the mother-of-all nasty endings, Blake's 7.
XF ends with the heroes scattered or dead, the alien/human deal cancelled and the alien invasion inevitable and unstoppable. The leads have lost their careers, their quest - even their child, and the final scene is the pair of them in a fleabag hotel in Roswell. Blake's 7 ends with one of the leads killing the other, then all of the so-called "heroes" get brutally gunned down.
And judging from what I've seen of Whedon's style, he seems to prefer a darker, sadder style. For all of the demons Buffy has slain, she still has so many of her own - dead family members, a destiny she never asked for, friends that betray her, and a fetish for vampires. she was even ripped brutally from the gates of heaven. In Titan AE, humanity is reduced to a group of homeless space bums. Now, in Firefly, we have a group of burned-out refugees and veterans who have lost damn near everything.
Honestly, though, I do hope the series gets a bit of optimism and an arc other than "survival." "Ariel was a huge step towards a mytharc and direction for the series.
Quote:
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault).
I dunno, I picked up a lot on the characters quickly. The interrogation scene in "Bushwacked" not only had me on the floor laughing my a** off, but gave me some great insights on who these folks were.
Quote:
Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode.
Ever see season 1 of TNG, DS9, or Voyager? Pre-made universe, two-hour aired pilot, and still a lot of exposition to wade through.
Quote:
Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
The universe makes pretty good sense to me. I had to go chewing through fan sites for information on episodes I didn't get to see, but it all pieces together nicely.
Oh, and the decisiuon to not run the pilot. Boneheaded, yes. Without precedent, no. Indeed the other space western I am a fan of aired the third episode first when TIIC thought the pilot "too dark" or "too talky" for a cartoon in 1986. Granted, it wasn't the BEST introduction for the characters, but it's not as bad as it could be.
Quote:
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse.
I've not noticed this as much. Again, Wheadon's got an odd style, but it's one that can get the most out of a character and play the situation with honesty. There are other methods other than Archplot, and most screenwriters find some place that fits for them.
Quote:
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what?
This part is depressing, but I'm not sure the Alliance is as stable as it looks. To be honest, they seem to be stretched mighty thin, and need the resources of the backwater worlds to sustain its cities. Now, checking history, that was one of the reasons Rome collapsed.
Also, from
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Quote:
Originally posted by xed:
[2]The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?).
The reavers won't be explained in the pilot...if you watched attentivly instead of only finding reason to bitch(wait maybe it's just that you don't have a big enough attention span to follow a show like that) you would have understood what the reavers were, they explained it very well and the guy they found on that ship pretty much became a reaver himself after what the reavers did to him...
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I hate to say it but xed has a point. His reasons are valid as to why the show could fail....the show doesn't appeal to a mass audiance. Saddly Xed represents the majority of people who consume mass television...I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves to fail. But xed illistraits very clearly why it could fail....I wish he was wrong. :(
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Hey Haken! I think we have another thread that needs to be deligated to Troll Country!
And here's an idea: If you don't like a show, DONT GO POSTING ON FAN SITES. Go to www.ihatefirefly.com and post there. Or make your own website. But to go on a fan site and the only opinon you have is, "Dude, this show sucks" is just rude. If you aren't smart enough to pay attention to the episodes and form inteligent opinions about said episodes, then go somewhere else, cause you're cloging up my bandwidth.
________________
"Dear Diary, Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. And it was the best day ever!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
Hey Haken! I think we have another thread that needs to be deligated to Troll Country!
I could not disagree more. The only real problem with the original post is its tone...the points he /she made could just as easily been posted under the title of "Why I think firefly will not get renewed for a next season" And then posted the list as examples as to why the show doesn't appeal to a mass audiance. Although I do find it strange that a person would spend all the time Xed did just to say he how much he hates a show let alone all the time he spent watching it, the points he made are legitimate for discusion here in the forums.
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All,
Misterogers said, "It's the people you love the most who hurt you the most." (Yeah, it's been said many times, but his saying so just stuck with me.) Xed watched the show. He found the board. He joined. He posted. If "Mutant-X" went into hiatus tomorrow, I could not care less; I wouldn't join a board; I wouldn't post. Something about "Firefly," besides being awful in his view, caused him to think about it. Think about it.
m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL
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If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Simple answer. And while I'll discuss/argue till Doomsday with someone I know has honest questions or issues, this isn't that person.
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It seems to me that a very angry person wrote those comments. Maybe you are angry about other things that are going on in your life and are powerless to change them. Therefore, you take the time and effort to watch the show and then spend 30 minutes blasting it. If you can't blast the situations or persons that are making you miserable, you can take your frustrations out on a website and then sit back and chuckle when fans come to the rescue. So you know some screen-writing jargon. Big Deal! I must agree with others who say you must not be paying attention. We have had no problem following storylines. You are probably so stressed out you can't keep your mind on the show. So why don't you chill out, keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the best scifi show in a decade.
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It seems to me that a very angry person wrote those comments. Maybe you are angry about other things that are going on in your life and are powerless to change them. Therefore, you take the time and effort to watch the show and then spend 30 minutes blasting it. If you can't blast the situations or persons that are making you miserable, you can take your frustrations out on a website and then sit back and chuckle when fans come to the rescue. So you know some screen-writing jargon. Big Deal! I must agree with others who say you must not be paying attention. We have had no problem following storylines. You are probably so stressed out you can't keep your mind on the show. So why don't you chill out, keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the best scifi show in a decade.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Docebo:
But I betcha everyone on who reads this board loves the show
Bzzzzt! Wrong. I certainly don't love the show. I think it has major problems being offered as a sci-fi show in its current form. I'm not a mindless fan who accepts a flawed show as brilliant. This show has major problems...but I still enjoy it for the most part. I also don't live on these boards...I stop by once in awhile to get news.
And why come down so hard on this XED guy, he has some decent points. Take off your "I LUV FF NO MATTER WHAT!" shirts once in awhile.
Hopefully they will put their hiatus time to good use and make some changes.
And FWIW the best sci-fi show in the last decade was Babylon 5...hands down, no contest, the fat lady is singing.
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Quote:as said before... Firefly is not as of yet dead. If it was, I would probably hear about it too. I have a friend on the cast.
Originally posted by xed:
So Firefly's dead. We may get to see the long-touted pilot...or we may not. Either way, this series has taken the big dirt nap.
Quote:
[1] unebelievably depressing (Joss Whedon's fault). Imagine a future where the Nazis won. Fill a weekly show with French resistance members hiding out in Tieera Del Fuego. This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies.
Depressing? Hardly. Just because it's not your regular happy happy joy joy show doesn't mean it's depressing. This is almost classic space-era sci-fi where the characters AREN'T in a overpowered ship or somehow sanctioned by the ubiquitous government. You gotta brush by on your own. Malcolm Reynolds' crew show a great example of doing so in a less than ideal environment.
Quote:Having no idea what/who/where someone is or something is doesn't mean its bad. In many cases such a device is called a "hook." I've seen many shows who do a lot worse (and few that do better) with character development. Firefly has a very good storyline progression as far as overall story goes and learning what someone can do or something is is half the fun in this type of tv show.
[2] We have no idea who these characters are (Fox networks' fault). Without the pilot episode, the screenwriters found themselves forced to insert exposition that clobbered every episode. The whole second episode made no sense (What's a Reaver?). "Out Of Gas" tried to substitute for the pilot -- did a darn good job. But way too late. Faced with a universe we dont' understand populated by folks we don't know in situations we're not familiar with, most viewers chose to tune out. Thanks, Fox. Brilliant decision to avoid showing the 2-hour pilot.
Quote:
[3] Clunky screenwrtiing. Any professional writer worth hi/r salt knows you don't slam the brakes on the action to segue to irrelevant and annoying exposition. Whedon's always had this problem, and the canceled pilot made it worse. "The Train Job" offers a superb example of how NOT to write a script. Start off the episode with a long irrelevant flashback involving River. (Irrelevant to this episode -- perhaps necessary for expositin down the line, but that doesn't count. Each episode must grab and HOLD the viewer's attention, else the series fails.) Bog down the episode with a long discussion with Book. Then, the minute Mal & company get ready to pull the heist on the maglev, slam the brakes on the narrative by cutting away to a long irrelevant discussion twixt Book and the companion.
Kiddies, that's bad screenwriting with a vengeance.
As has been said... Pray tell where you got your expertise. Joss, though I don't like his other shows, does an excellent job as I've seen so far. Also irellevant? In a show stressing STORYLINE instead of merely microcosm of human life has "irrelevant" bits of information. What's more most sitcoms you already have a basic grasp of the stituation. Not so in Firefly where as I've said before we are in a learning environment.
Quote:
[4] Avoid upbeat endings like the plague. Good idea. We already start with a grim premise -- the bad guys lost WW II/the Civil War. And on top of that, what? Every episode seems to involve some new downer -- a universe in which justice never ever prevails, a Buffy The Vampire Slayer in wh ich Buffy can never slay a vamp...or even keep 'em from greasing civilians. Case in point: in "The Train Job" the supervillain on the skyplex gets away scot free. He's still out there, still hanging folks from the ceiling. Wonderful. Instead of watching "Firefly," how's 'bout I just cut my throat?
I'd say that this thing doesn't have the "happy ending" as you put it because well.. it's not ended. And its being realistic. Life's not fair. We live. We go on. However, every episode has its own upbeat ending. Not "lived happily ever after" and not everything is resolved but there is definit
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Flaws - name a Season 1 that isn't a clunker in some regard. TNG's season one was dreadful. Babylon 5's put me to sleep. FF has bugs in the system, but they're tolerable bugs.
The elements that are most important to me are there - interesting universe, well-done characters, and a situation that screams for fanfic.
The pessimism - yeah, I'm kinda in the boat with that. I'm a fan of stuff like early DS9, Blake's 7, and X-Files. And my favorite fanfic fodder of all time had the good guys flat out LOSING in the original pilot. However, for every time our heroes get stepped on, they tend to sneak out with a minor victory, or benefits they didn't expect.
Screenwriting - hey, bub...I've got some screenwriting cred, too. Mostly low-budget shorts in this area. My big weakness in "going pro" is my love of fanfic - if it's known you write the stuff, you're pretty much screwed professionally.
But if you wanna talk sctructure, I'm game.
Co-founder of the Evil Writing Crew - causing hell, one hero at a time!
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It seems absurd to criticize the screenwriting of Firefly when the reason why most people love Firefly is because of screenwriting. Firefly Doesn’t Follow the normal screenwriting rules and that why it is so refreshing, If it did then it would be like every other show on TV. The fact that a show dose something differently doesn’t me that it is doing it wrong.
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Imagine a show about doctors set in the Korean War, This ain't a recipe for fun, kiddies. Unless you call it M.A.S.H. XED your argument isn't convincing at all you say so many good things about the show and give explanations for most of the problems like the fact that the pilot episode was not show. You also seem to be in the absolute minority when it comes to criticising the screen writing. All you criticisms seem rather lacklustre and are aimed at only one episode (The Train Job) which was the first episode after the pilot. I wonder why there aren’t any criticisms of any other episodes. Probably because it's so hard to find any problems with any of the other episodes. I’d be amazed if you could find any faults with the screen writing of the episodes Out of Gas and Arial (which were the last two episodes produced). Anyway I don’t know why I am bothering responding because you are obviously not as bright as you think you are.
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Quote:
If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Well, by the same token, if he's a troll then why does it show him as having signed up for an account all the way back in September? IF he'd been a troll we'd have seen something from him well before now (self-control is not high on trolls set of characteristics). Also, the fact that he used genuine examples to back up his points, as opposed to the usual vague canned criticisms, would indicate that he could be serious in his statement. Do I agree with him? No, the fact that all his examples came only from the first episode completely undermines his case. But I don't think we can completely write him off as a troll either.
Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star
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Quote:
If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Well, by the same token, if he's a troll then why does it show him as having signed up for an account all the way back in September? IF he'd been a troll we'd have seen something from him well before now (self-control is not high on trolls set of characteristics). Also, the fact that he used genuine examples to back up his points, as opposed to the usual vague canned criticisms, would indicate that he could be serious in his statement. Do I agree with him? No, the fact that all his examples came only from the first episode completely undermines his case. But I don't think we can completely write him off as a troll either.
Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star
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Quote:
If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Well, by the same token, if he's a troll then why does it show him as having signed up for an account all the way back in September? IF he'd been a troll we'd have seen something from him well before now (self-control is not high on trolls set of characteristics). Also, the fact that he used genuine examples to back up his points, as opposed to the usual vague canned criticisms, would indicate that he could be serious in his statement. Do I agree with him? No, the fact that all his examples came only from the first episode completely undermines his case. But I don't think we can completely write him off as a troll either.
Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star
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Quote:
If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Well, by the same token, if he's a troll then why does it show him as having signed up for an account all the way back in September? IF he'd been a troll we'd have seen something from him well before now (self-control is not high on trolls set of characteristics). Also, the fact that he used genuine examples to back up his points, as opposed to the usual vague canned criticisms, would indicate that he could be serious in his statement. Do I agree with him? No, the fact that all his examples came only from the first episode completely undermines his case. But I don't think we can completely write him off as a troll either.
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Could someone explain why I got a "could not authenticate login" reply leading me to double post (of which this is a hasty edit to ask instead of double posting)?
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Quote:Lets get this strate,1.BABYLON 5 is the best sci-fi show ever!!!
Originally posted by fireflyfan:
It seems to me that a very angry person wrote those comments. Maybe you are angry about other things that are going on in your life and are powerless to change them. Therefore, you take the time and effort to watch the show and then spend 30 minutes blasting it. If you can't blast the situations or persons that are making you miserable, you can take your frustrations out on a website and then sit back and chuckle when fans come to the rescue. So you know some screen-writing jargon. Big Deal! I must agree with others who say you must not be paying attention. We have had no problem following storylines. You are probably so stressed out you can't keep your mind on the show. So why don't you chill out, keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the best scifi show in a decade.
Then its FARSCAPE, after that its the PRISINOR,then FIRSTWAVE,then CURSADES,then BLAKE 7, after that FIREFLY may get the node, but firefly is origins in nature and story but IF i HAD TO CHOOSE,I would go for "STARGATE" instead sorry but you need a reality check.
I watched all the episode twice and taped them and must say it nneds some polishing up to break into the top 5 "SCI-FI" show and its still early, but who knows after two or three years it may just do that,and then you can say its one of the best .
But untill then let thing roll on and hope it make the "CUT" of "FOXES" sharp knives!!!
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Quote:Lets get this strate,1.BABYLON 5 is the best sci-fi show ever!!!
Originally posted by fireflyfan:
It seems to me that a very angry person wrote those comments. Maybe you are angry about other things that are going on in your life and are powerless to change them. Therefore, you take the time and effort to watch the show and then spend 30 minutes blasting it. If you can't blast the situations or persons that are making you miserable, you can take your frustrations out on a website and then sit back and chuckle when fans come to the rescue. So you know some screen-writing jargon. Big Deal! I must agree with others who say you must not be paying attention. We have had no problem following storylines. You are probably so stressed out you can't keep your mind on the show. So why don't you chill out, keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the best scifi show in a decade.
Then its FARSCAPE, after that its the PRISINOR,then FIRSTWAVE,then CURSADES,then BLAKE 7, after that FIREFLY may get the node, but firefly is origins in nature and story but IF i HAD TO CHOOSE,I would go for "STARGATE" instead sorry but you need a reality check.
I watched all the episode twice and taped them and must say it nneds some polishing up to break into the top 5 "SCI-FI" show and its still early, but who knows after two or three years it may just do that,and then you can say its one of the best .
But untill then let thing roll on and hope it make the "CUT" of "FOXES" sharp knives!!!
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Quote:Lets get this strate,1.BABYLON 5 is the best sci-fi show ever!!!
Originally posted by fireflyfan:
It seems to me that a very angry person wrote those comments. Maybe you are angry about other things that are going on in your life and are powerless to change them. Therefore, you take the time and effort to watch the show and then spend 30 minutes blasting it. If you can't blast the situations or persons that are making you miserable, you can take your frustrations out on a website and then sit back and chuckle when fans come to the rescue. So you know some screen-writing jargon. Big Deal! I must agree with others who say you must not be paying attention. We have had no problem following storylines. You are probably so stressed out you can't keep your mind on the show. So why don't you chill out, keep your comments to yourself and let the rest of us enjoy the best scifi show in a decade.
Then its FARSCAPE, after that its the PRISINOR,then FIRSTWAVE,then CURSADES,then BLAKE 7, after that FIREFLY may get the node, but firefly is origins in nature and story but IF i HAD TO CHOOSE,I would go for "STARGATE" instead sorry but you need a reality check.
I watched all the episode twice and taped them and must say it nneds some polishing up to break into the top 5 "SCI-FI" show and its still early, but who knows after two or three years it may just do that,and then you can say its one of the best .
But untill then let thing roll on and hope it make the "CUT" of "FOXES" sharp knives!!!
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Maybe my nitpickishness is excessive, but I think I remember them saying the world of Firefly was modeled (at least in part) on the post US Civil War era ("reconstruction" I believe). In this case the main characters are in a position similar to that of Confederate soldiers after the war.
Personally I'd love to see the show last long enough to be able to play with other views of the Alliance, but...
(Not that any of this really addresses what the poster was saying. )
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I love the show, but admit there's things that made me realize it couldn't last.
- the overdone cowboy dialogue really wears on me. Ya'll ain't might reckon not.
- guest characters are more interesting than the regular cast.
- half-explained plotlines or situations. What is this power that River has? What is Book's past? (I realize these would/have have been explained at some point, it's just getting dull)
- using guns that would be considered antique even in 2002, let alone the distant future.
Hopefully the show is just on hiatus and comes back even better because I really think it doesn't deserve to die.
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I GET IT, VERY FUNNY. YOU OBVIOUSLY WANT TO TURN FIREFLY IN TO STAR TREK........HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
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Quote:
Originally posted by millernate:
Could someone explain why I got a "could not authenticate login" reply leading me to double post (of which this is a hasty edit to ask instead of double posting)?
Happened to me too. In fact, I kept get an error message and actually posted 6 times (no double posts for me!) before I figured out it was actually posting.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FireFlea:
- the overdone cowboy dialogue really wears on me. Ya'll ain't might reckon not.
Most people who talk like that are poor/uneducated people it reflect the reality cause many people like them talk like that today so it gives the character some reality
- guest characters are more interesting than the regular cast.
Opinion not a fact
- half-explained plotlines or situations. What is this power that River has? What is Book's past? (I realize these would/have have been explained at some point, it's just getting dull)
If they start explaining every mistery in the first 5 hours of show what will be left to tell in the future really? It would be like if John Doe found out who he really is during the pilot it doesn't make any sense to rush those thing.
- using guns that would be considered antique even in 2002, let alone the distant future.
Just because it's 500 years in the future doesn't mean that old/inexpensive and good working technology can't be used. What really tell us that laser will be cheap by that time?
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Quote:
Originally posted by millernate:Quote:
If it looks like a troll and smells like a troll, it usually is a troll. If Xed meant to simply spark a dicussion, why did she/he post once and vanish?
Well, by the same token, if he's a troll then why does it show him as having signed up for an account all the way back in September? IF he'd been a troll we'd have seen something from him well before now (self-control is not high on trolls set of characteristics). Also, the fact that he used genuine examples to back up his points, as opposed to the usual vague canned criticisms, would indicate that he could be serious in his statement. Do I agree with him? No, the fact that all his examples came only from the first episode completely undermines his case. But I don't think we can completely write him off as a troll either.
Millernate, you're obviously a more charitable person than I am.
In my online experience (which goes back to 1983 and The Source, which predated CompuServe), when a person wants to start discussion they usually stick around to um...discuss. Any time someone drops deliberately inflammatory statements and vanishes I smell a troll. Call me an ornery old bitch.
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Rhea:
Ornery old bitch!
just kidding. I'm with you. What's with the "i hate firefly" post on a firefly fans board? I'm thinking Troll.
______________
That kid was tox-ic when he came in here tonight. Heavy on the “ick”.
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- the overdone cowboy dialogue really wears on me. Ya'll ain't might reckon not.
Actually, since I'm a fan of both sci-fi and westerns, it's something I really don't even notice. Heck, I take calls from Texas and Montana all day. "Cowboy-speak" apparantly never went out of style in some places.
Plus, if you've heard Jerry "Lt. Lenny Brascoe" Orbach try to do a John Wayne accent (I am so not kidding), Mal sounds normal in comparison.
- guest characters are more interesting than the regular cast.
I think the regulars are quite fascinating!
- half-explained plotlines or situations. What is this power that River has? What is Book's past? (I realize these would/have have been explained at some point, it's just getting dull)
Dude, it's SEASON 1! If this show lasts, we are going to find out the answers to these questions. Heck, XF didn't launch its "conspiracy" mytharc until the end of Season 1. DS9's Dominion wasn't seen until Season 2, Babylon 5's Season 1 left a lot to be desired, too.
- using guns that would be considered antique even in 2002, let alone the distant future.
Now here, I'll grant another point. Even now, we have tazers, and are working on the step past slug throwers. It's akin to saying in 1600 that we'd still be using swords and mounted cavalry.
"Ariel" showed the Alliance as having laser guns and the like, but I'm guessing that kind of tech is expensive. Back in the boonies, a slug thrower is cheap and very effective.
Co-founder of the Evil Writing Crew - causing hell, one hero at a time!
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Quote:
Originally posted by outlander:
I GET IT, VERY FUNNY. YOU OBVIOUSLY WANT TO TURN FIREFLY IN TO STAR TREK.
Nope, I just think there are a lot of fans that want less hick talk, cows, horses, covered wagons, biscuits & fried chicken (on a spaceship) and antique six shooters in a science fiction show. Cross genre shows, while unique, often don't sit well with viewers. I mean c'mon...lets be a little realistic. Was space colonized 200 years ago and we missed it? Don't call it science fiction and make it something else.
As I've said previously, the ONLY saving grace about this show are the characters.
I like the show, but a lot of you people are coming across as hardcore fanboys (girls) who turn a blind eye to any criticism of this show.
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Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
I like the show, but a lot of you people are coming across as hardcore fanboys (girls) who turn a blind eye to any criticism of this show.
I do not turn a blind eye. I just happen to like the things that you consider flaws. Having a different opinion on a topic doesn't mean I can't see fault in the show.
________________
But it'll be fun. No wait, I mean it'll get us all killed.
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(1) Depressing storyline? I think the general audience craves something more than pablum, o'wise we'd be watching Disney 24/7.
(2) Half of the fun... heck, MOST of the fun... is in figuring stuff out. (Unless one has NVLD, where everything has to be spelled out.)
(3) Didn't see "the Train Job", but for comparison, doesn't "Out of Gas" break up action sequences too? And yet it was remarkably successful in holding viewer's attention.
(4)See my answer to (1). Being heroic doesn't mean that the charcters are guaranteed successful outcomes. In fact, the most interesting thing about Firefly is how far the characters will bend... or not... knowing that a "happy ending" isn't likely. The basis of a lot of story telling is conflict. If the end is already known, where's the conflict?
My main gripe with Firefly is whole-cloth reproduction of hillbilly/Old South/Western effects/stereotypes to convey the "rawness" of the setting. Integrating that harshness into a sci-fi needs more thought.
Thank god for no holodecks!
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Thank god for no holodecks!
Here Here!
I grew up with a trekie... although my mother will never admit to being one, she records EVERY single episode that airs, even if she has watched it 90 million times. (she has about 10 tapes that she cycles through, so eventually, she does record over them with another episode she's seen 90 million times.) Every time I go home to visit I get stuck watching TNG and DS9 and Voyager with her... then when I say "ok, I'm gonna go..." she says "but I barely got to see you..." And I just want to shout "THEN TURN OFF THE CRAP TREK!" (not a fan, in case I was vague). I don't think I would like this show at all if it was as polished and righteous as Star Trek.
______________
No, I'm a rebel. You're an idiot. Give the lot of us a bad name.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FireFlea:
- using guns that would be considered antique even in 2002, let alone the distant future.
Ok, I'd like to address two points. Before I do so, I want anyone reading this to realize I am heavily biased in Firefly's favor for reason's of my own. That being said, to my critique.
One thing I don't think people appreciate is the sheer distance between places in a given galaxy. At our current technology level, it takes months for an unmanned spacecraft to reach Mars. And it take 4 minutes for a radio signal to reach there. This is a giant place. In a place where space travel is easily feasible (the technology level and time of firefly) shipping will still be a very big problem. Information between worlds is meager at best and you'll see the only way the crew of Serenity can gain information on a planet is checking existing bulletins on the planet by a planet's authorities as was seen in the episode Safe. Also one must bear in mind that the trips between planets (and so between episodes) take weeks... perhaps months. With all these circumstances in a rather large universe (we've seen what... 5 habitable planets already?) Shipping items between worlds is VERY difficult and thus makes realistic that Older technology exists on many worlds. That's also why Malcolm Reynold's partially pursues the job of a trader. Merchandise can pay for a lot. And as far as the "antique" weaponry Mal and company carry...
Those weapons are some of the sturdiest weaponry ever created. Possibly not the most elegant but sturdy. Weaponry these days are incredibly fragile, barring things such as the AK-47 which is designed to be able to be dropped from a vehicle moving over 40mph and still be reused. The older projectile weaponry make sure that the crew's weapons will work always. And higher tech weapons still exist too. As noted, the Alliance Energy weapons, but you see how well Jayne liked those. Also are the rifles seen wielded by the Alliance Corps in "Train Job" and Finally we see Jayne's Vera. Vera is not a weak weapon. Or low tech. Next, projectile weaponry have an incredible advantage over Energy. Harnessing energy, though ubiquitous, isn't easy nor efficient. What's more, energy weapons will also dissipate given distance, even in the cold vacuum of space. A projectile weapon is easy to restock and simple. Furthermore a projectile weapon's range is limited only by friction and gravity. In a vacuum of space (again exampled by Vera) a bullet will lose little to no velocity and fly on uninhibited. Though explosive charges don't work in vacuum (the driving punch for most bullets) I'm sure many "Rail gun" or magnetized weaponry have been created in Firefly. Keep watching.
Thus ends my dissertation on the world of Firefly.
Gaheris
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Quote:
With all these circumstances in a rather large universe (we've seen what... 5 habitable planets already?)
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Quote:
Shipping items between worlds is VERY difficult and thus makes realistic that Older technology exists on many worlds.
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
IMO they would be projectile weapons, but more high tech: 100s of rounds, armor piecing, explosive, smart bullets, tranqs, etc, etc...not six freakin' shots of warm lead. This extrapolation isn't far fetched since we can do all this NOW and we haven't colonized numerous planets or mastered spaceflight with artificial gravity that keep cattle from floating around the hold.
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
I do not turn a blind eye. I just happen to like the things that you consider flaws. Having a different opinion on a topic doesn't mean I can't see fault in the show.
Thank you. I was going to say the same thing.
I found the Western/Scifi crossover to be curious and disconcerting for about the 10 minutes it took me to fall in love with the characters.
And I love the music on the show - it's a very eclectic mix, not just western.
I have friends who don't like the westerny part either, but they've all fallen in love with the show. In fact, I have a group of friends who used to get together once a month from all over the San Francisco bay area to watch Andromeda. The last two months everyone is saying "Bring Firefly tapes!"
I think you could place these characters in just about any setting, and because they're compelling and the writing is good, you'd still like them - or at least I would.
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I agree with UFO on some things. If transportation is so easy that Mal can ship a whole cargo-hold of relatively low-value cattle, then the benefits of technology should be everywhere. (I would have imagined that they would be shipping frozen embryos with a few cows to be implanted later.)
That's what I mean by imagination. A series of worlds where some are high-tech and some are low-tech is not only possible it's likely, given that's what we see in our own history. But INTEGRATING them into a whole, understanding the choke-points (Transportation costs? Monopolies? Lack of infrastructure?) will take a lot of work.
Back to the original arument- it's the show's "flaws" that make it interesting. There is SO MUCH room in the premise for great stories- and big audiences- that it would be a shame to have Firefly disappear.
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Given the typical sci-fi geeks penchant for debating pointless technical minutiae, perhaps, after reading this thread, its not so hard to see why Firefly had to die. Jesus, what a bunch of petty non-sense.
....
....
sorry just feeling a bit frustrated. Firefly's light is fading and "Fastlane" and "American Idol" march merrily along. People are sheep
SergeantX
"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith
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Now for my Defense
Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.
Quote:
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
True. Look at the level of Technology on the two planets which the cattle are transferred between though. In Shindig, the tech level is possibly around ours, maybe higher, but with a slightly archaic touch. Safe however, has a REALLY low tech area, classic western. Mal and Co. aren't part of an official shipping company and the livestock were wanted shipped rather underhand rather than over the counter. Smuggling. True, transferring dead tech could be easy, but profitable? with month's or possibly weeks between shipments, people don't want things that break down easily. Hence lets go for the tried and true. BTW, the cattle job WAS a smuggling job. High profile smuggling but nonetheless.
Quote:
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
Riiight, I already addressed some of these. "six freaking shots of warm lead" are very easy to produce. A gunhand on our world could also be a decent self-armorer. Easy reload, easy supply. No need to ship from core to get it. Armor piercing? Look no farther than Vera. Though bullets aren't smart they can't be said to be lead shot. Don't know how many rounds Vera has either. Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good. Standard weaponry we have is 30 rnds for a rifle. Again, most owners of weapons are PRIVATE owners probably not too rich. Alliance soldiers have decent in train job. Besides, we have many guns that look like colt six shooters now.
Hope that answers some from my POV
Gaheris
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Now for my Defense
Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
Big difference between a "universe" and a system of planets.
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.
Quote:
Your argument falls apart by the fact that they transferred an entire ship full of live cattle, without paperwork, without red tape...they just picked them up and off they went. And the trip took several weeks if I remember right. If a ship full of live cattle can survive in a ship for weeks, I imagine the transport of lifeless information and/or technology (legally or illegaly) would be pretty simple. And if transporting technology/info is such a scarce and difficult thing, then why are they taking cattle jobs instead of profitable technology smuggling jobs? Just a thought...or two.
True. Look at the level of Technology on the two planets which the cattle are transferred between though. In Shindig, the tech level is possibly around ours, maybe higher, but with a slightly archaic touch. Safe however, has a REALLY low tech area, classic western. Mal and Co. aren't part of an official shipping company and the livestock were wanted shipped rather underhand rather than over the counter. Smuggling. True, transferring dead tech could be easy, but profitable? with month's or possibly weeks between shipments, people don't want things that break down easily. Hence lets go for the tried and true. BTW, the cattle job WAS a smuggling job. High profile smuggling but nonetheless.
Quote:
Also, your points about projectile weapons are well taken. They are cheap and reliable. I agree that backwater worlds would use projectile weapons, but not ones that look like Colt 45s six shooters from the 1800s.
Riiight, I already addressed some of these. "six freaking shots of warm lead" are very easy to produce. A gunhand on our world could also be a decent self-armorer. Easy reload, easy supply. No need to ship from core to get it. Armor piercing? Look no farther than Vera. Though bullets aren't smart they can't be said to be lead shot. Don't know how many rounds Vera has either. Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good. Standard weaponry we have is 30 rnds for a rifle. Again, most owners of weapons are PRIVATE owners probably not too rich. Alliance soldiers have decent in train job. Besides, we have many guns that look like colt six shooters now.
Hope that answers some from my POV
Gaheris
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaheris:
Feasibility of a 100 round handgun however isn't good.
I'm with Gaheris on this one... I would never in a gazillion years consider myself a person with great gun knowledge, but I do have a partial understand of space (not outerspace, per se, just space in general), weight and size. For 100 rounds to be in the gun, either the gun would have to be very large, the bullets very small, or some combination of the two. A large, heavy gun would not be very effective for carrying around or the quick draw or holding pointed for any amount of time (arm would get tired...). Small bullets may not do enough damage. I used to have a gun-friendly boyfriend, and he took me out and I shot his 22 handgun. He put a clip that had more than normal number of bullets (I want to say 20 or 30... a round number, but it's been years and I don't really remember). Anyway, the clip hung down lower than the handle of the gun. Certainly not something I could have tucked in a standard holster. And 22s are small bullets.
So, No, a 6-shot revolver is certainly something I hope they aren't using in Firefly. But I could very easily accept a 10-12 shot clip.
______________
I've always meant to do that but I intensely don't want to so I haven't gotten around to it
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I agree with UFO on some things. If transportation is so easy that Mal can ship a whole cargo-hold of relatively low-value cattle, then the benefits of technology should be everywhere. (I would have imagined that they would be shipping frozen embryos with a few cows to be implanted later.)
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gaheris:
Now for my Defense
Aye. System of planets = Galaxy. Galaxy= big. still lots of distance.
Jeeze, still wrong. Structure of macroscopic universe is as follows...in a nutshell:
planets orbiting stars
star systems (ie. Sol = Solar system)
globular clusters (clusters of stars, not always present)
galaxy (Milky Way ~100 billion stars, ~80,000 light years wide, big)
local groups (20-50 galaxies, BIG)
local superclusters (several local groups, BIIGGGG)
universe (fooking HUGE).
To cross our Milky Way galaxy it would take 80,000 years if you were traveling at the speed of light. System of planets (not equal) galaxy.
Good points on your other items tho.
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As far as 100 rounds in a gun being unrealistic...hardly.
The amount of energy a slug (or any moving object for that matter) has is proportional to it's mass (m) and muzzle velocity (V) squared:
E=0.5mV^2
In fact, the amount of energy a slug has is more sensitive to the muzzle velocity (squared) than the mass). You can make a small deadly bullet by giving it large velocities. I'm sure there's technology in the world of Firefly to provide a sufficient propellant (ie. gun powder).
Sorry, too much physics in this post. Point is, again, if they could colonize all these planets and any Joe Blow off the street can buy a ship, certainly they could have better projectile weapons than inefficient, yet reliable, six shooters. Especially since they just came out of a civil war and weapons should be floating all over the black market. Hell, everyone carries a weapon, so they must be plentiful.
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Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.
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Hmmm,
Had FOX on in the background all night and have not seen one ad for Firefly. Plenty for John Doe though. At least in the past they would promo J.D. by saying after a new Firefly and sometimes even show a Firefly clip.
Joss has even said the December ratings really matter. It's a shame That his show is on a network that doesn't seem to care at all anymore.
Damn, I really love this show. In the off weeks I downloaded the pilot and the first few eps that I haven't seen since the start because I was not recording them back then.
It really is a shame we most likely only will get a few more but I am looking forward to seeing the reworked pilot as I really enjoyed the one floating around on the net.
Speaking of the pilot my Kaylee gets shot. So I would guess that Simon, River, and Inara are the only ones not to have gotten shot at some point. Even though we haven't seen Jayne, Zoe, or Wash get shot they all probably have due to their past except maybe for Wash. But who knows. Any thoughts?
Do you have anything worth dying for?
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O...k... Sufficient propellent to launch a projectile which would be small enough to holster and plentiful enough to load 100. 1. The propellant would take up more space than the bullets. 2. Manufacturing these and making them ubiquitous would be a pain, especially in the wake of a civil war. 3. Enough powder/propellan/rocket fuel/whatever to propel a small bullet the range/power it would take to be decently effective would shatter the gun with one shot and send shrapnel flying at high speeds to impale the holder of the gun. That's what happens when pure theoretical physics meets engineering. Yes. A time machine is feasible. Get an infinitely long tube with reverse gravity and a way to spin it infinitely fast. Doesn't me we can do it. (I don't mean to sound too harsh, but 100 bullets just isn't feasible without elegant weaponry with huge costs to keep or Huge carrying with a flattened weapon-carrier at the end of a 2 inch hike) 4. Just because it looks old don't mean it be old. The revolving magazine wall is built in many gun today and style is just as important a part as pure killing. Why else would Jayne carry knives as well as a vast plethora of weaponry?
I'll grant that there are MANY weapons, but mostly we see them in the outer rim or edges of space. The weaponry seen in the only alliance territory core was on Ariel. Mucho high tech there.
And Mal isn't a Joe Blow off a street. He was a middling ranked independant officer, who ended up with a huge command. And ended up buying a non-flying wreck. I'm sure the salesman woulda been happy to get Serenity off his hands.
Gaheris
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The following is a believable history for Firefly:
The Earth was doomed. People were dumped on outer rim planets with little or no technolgy many of which where farmers or taught how to become farmers (which has to be the cheapest way to colonize a planets). For may hundreds or thousands of years the people on the planets have little or no contact with other planet. The people on these planets live very simple lives either by choice (the reason the inhabitability of Earth may have been because of some misuse of technology) or due to the lack of technology on hand. Then one day the Alliance arrives on their doorstep. Now The Alliance isn't going to start handing out the latest greatest technology are they particularly if they have plans of taking over theses planets and by keeping the populations on these planets primitive it makes it easy for the Alliance to keep control over.
People show use their brains rather than instantly disregarding the premises of Firefly and they shouldn't judge a show based on its props and costumes. Firefly is a show with strong characters and clever story lines.
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OK, I can see a reasonable size gun that can have 100 round clips. Just not with gunpowder as the propellent. So what if the gun propells the bullets with electromagnets as theorized numerous times before in several threads? Might work. It could give the smaller bullets the necessary velocity to overcome thier smaller mass. Seems to me that'd be less efficient though. Besides, if the whole reason these people are using regular guns is that they cannot afford anything fancy, then why would they uses some electromagnetic gun, which is by defination fancy?
________________
SPIKE: I must be a noble vampire. A good guy. On a mission of redemption. I help the hopeless. I'm a vampire with a soul.
BUFFY: A vampire with a soul? Oh my god, how lame is that?
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Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.
When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...
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I guess this is where my lack of info shines thru. I assumed that the various worlds were colonized years... possibly a hundred years or more... earlier, long enough ago for them to have formed a separate identity from the Alliance, similar to the hundred fifty years or so between the colonization of North America and the Civil War. Long enough ago that even if they STARTED with high tech stuff, some of that technology was worn away.
But WHY has not technology spread more evenly? Is is because the outlying planets are dirt poor and can't afford it? Makes sense... civilization's center has the capability to enforce a negative flow of goods and services. Does this mean that the Alliance has a colonial relationship with the outlying planets? Is this part of the reason for the rebellion? Then the Alliance would establish many military bases to actively maintain control. This would create widespread resentment in people who are close enough to see what they're missing, which is out of reach by artificial barriers. (Think Phillipine slums.)
Or is it because the outlying planets themselves are too new or lacking essential resources to have developed independent economies and goods of equivalent trade value? In that case, the Alliance's relationship is one of "benign neglect"? (Only examples I can think of are small countries like Tibet or Costa Rica that have no resources of great value and are pretty much left alone economically.) Or is it simply one of time and distance, shipping costs and risks being too exhorbitant for widespread trade? In that case, the outlying planets are truly ignorant, seeing very little of the technology that is very far away, like the !Kung of the Kalahari. I know this is niggling, it defines the reactions of the populations they meet, not only to Firefly but also to the Alliance. Probably like today it's a mixture of things, but don't expect to see low value trade being conducted on planets that seem to be very backwater.
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Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:Quote:
Originally posted by YeAhItSme:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
Totally different. The correct analogy would be if the U.S. were the only country on the planet and we suddenly discovered the rest of the planet uninhabited and colonized it....Would that colony have new technology and access to it? Probably.
When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...
I hate all these nested quotes, but oh well.... Look at the world we live in now... There are places in the world where the general population is so poor that they use rocks as weapons. It isn't because it is so difficult to get the super-duper high tech weapons, it is because they are too poor to pay for them. So yes, it is probably very easy to get stuff from one planet to another in the Firefly timeframe. But even Mal wouldn't deliver a big cargo of high tech equipment to people who couldn't afford to pay him for it.
If America suddenly colonized a bunch of new planets or continents if there were more, Many of the colonists would be wealthy, sure. And those colonists would take their fancy schmancy stuff. But a huge portion of the colonists would be the poor who are hoping to make a new start for themselves in a new place. (Like many Europeans came to America when we were just starting out). I don't think that the government would do much more than lay the groundwork for trade. Purchasing the technologies would still be up to the individual colonists.
______________
Wash: It's all very sweet... Stealing from the rich to sell to the poor...
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Quote:
When Europes colonised America we didn't get all the technologies they had until we could create them ourselves and/or afford to buy them...
I hate to jump in on this again but I have to say that this is a faulty analogy. This is because, while it is true that we got new technologies *slower* than Europe did that did not apply to existing technology. In regards to existing technology the colonists received the most advanced technology that their government (or in some specific cases, such as I believe Jamestown, their company) could give them. They were not given backwards technology, which the planets on Firefly seem to possess (well, most of them). You may well be right but you are arguing your case with the wrong analogy.
Nathan, analogy cop
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star
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OK, well I'm going to take one more bad stab at the ONE thing that bothers me about the show. And thanks for letting me pound a point to my satisfaction. (EVERYTHING else about the show is fine!!)
Look at "Shindig". Here we have a planet with an ante-bellum flavor: cotillions, slaves (I think), lords and ladies, plus advanced screening and suspension technology. If they have the advanced technology, they at least have to have electricity generation, metallurgy that goes with it, repair people and technicians.
Slave technologies generally didn't generate technological advances, for two reasons:
1) Work was very declasse (done only by slaves!)and...
2) Why invent labor-saving devices when you can just throw more people at a problem?
Unlikely this would be native tech, so the only way this would make sense is if that planet imported not only it's technology, but also it's technicians. Likely this planet has raw resources- food, metals, etc. to trade with the main planet. Lots of trade going back and forth. Comfortbale relationship with the main planet, I can make this scenario hang together, sort of. except that in real life exporters of raw materials usually wind up in disadvantaged relationships with technologically advanced nations, but... OK... historical accidents happen.
Now, one lord on this planet wants to smuggle cattle to some hinterland. Why is that a cause for smuggling? Sounds like honest trade to me! But furthermore, what is this other planet going to pay with?? They're dickering in some universal currency, but how is heaven's name does a god-forsaken planet like that scrape up enough currency when it seems like they're barely one step above "Deliverance"?
I guess my point is that planets are like people: they have to have a way to make a living, they have relationships with the other planets around them (are they a colony? a resort? an outpost? a power?), and in this show--- which centers around a smuggler-- they're defined by relationships of economy, politics, and technology. When those relationships don't seem to fit internally it "clunks" with me.
Ok, off the soapbox.
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Keep in mind that these settled worlds have no oil
deposites. It even takes a few years for biomass to
start producing any respectable amount of coal -
gas, diesel, heck even plastic is going to be
expensive. (Though there is biodeisel... hmm)
For the most part I've only had a couple of glaring
gripes with the series - purple lightning in space
(Of all the... I just find it funny now), and why
they seem to have artificial gravity but can't use
it to maneuver the ship on its own (or maybe they can
and the turbines are just help, not a bad idea).
Why moving cows around is contraband is also another
strange thing, but I think that was an issue with
local (the world they were taking them from),
rather than Alliance laws.
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Something must be done about that 'permission denied' thing.
Sorry.
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about the cows: it was said in Shindig, that it was illegal to sell the cows off world. I assume it was a local law of that planet. and I thought the cows were shipped to that backwater planet because they are needed there more and so make more money there. I think it's about the same here on earth someplace. there are countries with lots of green land and so lots of cows and other foodstuff (we in germany here have more food than we can eat most of the time and germany is a heavily populated country) and there are countries with say oil or some metals or something and they trade. maybe the planet in Safe had something valueable to pay for the cattle and we've just never seen it. or the cows don't sell on the planet from Shindig, because there are just too many cows there, so getting something (even if it's little) from the guys from Safe is better than having to burn the meat on the Shindig planet.
on another matter:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful? one could easily live with glass windows and normal pool balls forever, there's no need for them to be holographic. so why not have anything usefull, like a gun-scanner (like tha one at the ball in Shindig) or anything else that would actually make a difference to the bar owner or the guests.
do you understand what I mean?
Idefix
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>>>there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful?<<<
Because it *is* "useful".
Most "useful" even.
From the barowner's perspective.
"Dirty and cheap backwater" bar?
Right.
Means a lot of brawls.
The bar window always breaks first- as we know from our favorite western movies.
What's cheaper and more "useful"?
To buy a new window each week or spend some bigger bucks on a holographic one that will nevr break again?
And yeah, holographic pool table balls.
Can't be stolen.
Can't be used as weapons.
Can't get lost.
Buy a new set of balls each month or buy a holographic one and stop worrying about drunken customers and missing balls.
Plus it was fun to look at.
Regards:
Silverado.
~Ruttin proud Keeper of Mal's boot kicking a certain sucker into a certain hungry engine ( http://www.geocities.com/keeperqueen76).
_________________________________________________
"You had the law on you, criminals and savages... half the people on the ship have been shot or wounded including yourself, and you're harboring known fugitives."
"We're still flying."
"That's not much."
"It's enough."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xeriar:
Keep in mind that these settled worlds have no oil deposites. It even takes a few years for biomass to start producing any respectable amount of coal - gas, diesel, heck even plastic is going to be
expensive. (Though there is biodeisel... hmm)
If this is true (old plant and animal biomass produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn) covered in it?
I see no reason why settled worlds wouldn't have any oil. I am afraid your model of where oil comes from is a little outdated and incorrect.
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Quote:
If this is true (old plant and animal biomass
produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn)
covered in it?
Titan has methane, or natural gas. It's a kind of
oil, sure, if you want to be picky, but it has
nowhere near the fuel efficiency of biomass oils.
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I picture the holographic window and pool table like neon signs and arcade games are today. 500 years ago, a neon sign or arcade game would make people's jaws drop. Sure the holo window and pool table look flashy and high tech to us but they're probably cheap tech and easily available.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
on another matter:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful? one could easily live with glass windows and normal pool balls forever, there's no need for them to be holographic. so why not have anything usefull, like a gun-scanner (like tha one at the ball in Shindig) or anything else that would actually make a difference to the bar owner or the guests.
Think of it this way... Sports Bars now... in the little crappy backwoods town I grew up in, Sports Bars had lots of fights and unsavory characters. But they still have the huge projector TV and tons of smaller TVs all around the bar and DVD players and the like. That's relatively decent technology that can be expensive (especially the big projector TV). But the bars pay for it because it brings in the customers the way, oh, say, a metal detector at the door (also technology that is currently available, and probably not too much more expensive than all those TVs) could not.
Not to mention - If you were the type of person who carried weapons, you would be unlikely to go into a bar that made you check your weapons at the door. I used to be friends with a guy who didn't go anywhere without a handgun (he's a freak, don't ask me why he felt he needed the gun, but he did). Washington state law says no firearms in a bar, so whenever we went to out to eat with our group of friends, it was always a debate... sit in the bar where the smokers could smoke or sit in the restaraunt where they can't smoke, but gunboy could keep his weapon. Whenever the smokers won out, gunboy would leave rather than put his gun in his car. In a society where most, or at least many, people carry weapons of one form or another, you'd be chasing away business to have folks checked out when they come in.
______________
Angel: Do you know how hard it is to think straight with a rebar through your torso?
Cordelia: Actually, I do. Benefits of a Sunnydale education.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Xeriar:Quote:
If this is true (old plant and animal biomass
produces oil) why is Titan (a moon of Saturn)
covered in it?
Titan has methane, or natural gas. It's a kind of
oil, sure, if you want to be picky, but it has
nowhere near the fuel efficiency of biomass oils.
By mass methane is the most fuel efficient hydrocarbon...and there is strong speculation that methane isn't the only hydrocarbon on Titan...they just can't see through the methane atmosphere to know at the moment but I guess we will just have to wait until 2004 when cassini drops some probes on it. :)
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Quote:
look at how easy it is to ship things around the planet today...are all the country have the latest technology in everything? NO! So I don't see why it would be different in the future when human has colonised many planet!
Haven't shipped things to other countries very recently, have you? I've ended up making tape-copies for acquaintances and shipping them all over the place in the past year. For most things within the U.S., yeah, it'll get there in three to five business days. Canada? About the same. England? More than a week, for certain. Israel? Two and a half to three weeks, at the least.
And just try shipping something to, say, the boonies in Afghanistan or Kenya. There's no guarantee it's even going to get there, and if it does the person delivering it is almost certainly going to need to pay "border fees" (read: bribes) to those in control of the territory.
Perhaps, however, I have mistaken your intent -- and you're saying "easy" in an ironic manner. That is, it ISN'T easy to ship things to various places on this planet, particularly given the vast differences in tech levels.
History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.
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Quote:
Originally posted by UFO:
As far as 100 rounds in a gun being unrealistic...hardly.
The amount of energy a slug (or any moving object for that matter) has is proportional to it's mass (m) and muzzle velocity (V) squared:
E=0.5mV^2
In fact, the amount of energy a slug has is more sensitive to the muzzle velocity (squared) than the mass). You can make a small deadly bullet by giving it large velocities. I'm sure there's technology in the world of Firefly to provide a sufficient propellant (ie. gun powder).
And the less massive the bullet, the less likely it is to penetrate obstacles or cut through bone. Or, to paraphrase an immortal quote:
"Wow! Now I can flatten light ammo against body armor faster than ever before!"
Quote:
Sorry, too much physics in this post.
Any Joe off the street WITH SUFFICIENT CAPITAL can purchase a ship, which rules out pretty much any of the Joes in the borderworlds. Additionally, given that the Alliance DID just triumph in a Civil War, they're almost certainly going to be cracking down big-time on any suspected advanced-arms deals, simply to insure that they don't have to face a re-armed Independents movement ten years down the road. Many people carry weapons -- but they're low-tech, and certainly not the kind of advanced weaponry that we've seen on Alliance ships (the railgun that took out the Reaver'd ship in Bushwhacked) and in Alliance security (the sonic stunners wielded by the hospital security force in Ariel).
Sure, a person MAY have a high-tech gun and advanced ammunition -- but obtaining that on border worlds where supply ships clearly don't come often and where the general level of technology (something certainly required to manufacture said gun or said ammo) is substantially lower than on the Core worlds is nigh-impossible. Thus, the low-tech projectile weapons.
Besides which -- simply because higher tech exists doesn't necessarily make lower tech that much less effective. Sure, you may have lasers and advanced ferroceramic body armor, but when I shove a sharpened stick thru your eye and into your brain you'll still be dead.
Bottom line -- if you want a gun with a hundred-plus "smart" bullets, advanced ammunition loads, and all the foofaraw you can choke down, be my guest. Of course, it'll be half again the size of a Thompson SMG -- that is, completely unconcealable -- and when you run out of ammo on those oh so low-tech border worlds you'll have a very expensive and rather fragile club. Lead bullets can be cast, and brass cartridges reloaded, and the simpler the mechanism the less likely it is to break down. Just look at the AK-47 -- it's been around for fifty-five years now and it's STILL an effective and dangerous weapon.
History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.
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*sigh*
Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?
Silverado.
~Ruttin proud Keeper of Mal's boot kicking a certain sucker into a certain hungry engine ( http://www.geocities.com/keeperqueen76).
_________________________________________________
"You had the law on you, criminals and savages... half the people on the ship have been shot or wounded including yourself, and you're harboring known fugitives."
"We're still flying."
"That's not much."
"It's enough."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverado:
*sigh*
Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?
Are we making you crazy, Silverado?
I love these kinds of discussions. I think it's awesome that people have put so much thought into this stuff. I find when I watch the show, I just accept everything but the characters and action as fact. It never occurs to me that something may be off with the technology. So to hear everyone's opinions about what is feasible and what is foolish is very cool. Makes me think more about the show.
Edit: Bob shows her age with words like "AWESOME".
Younger folks: please read "awesome" as whatever the newest hippest slang is for "really good".______________
Simon: It's good. It tastes like.... It's good.
Jayne: It smells like Crotch!
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Quote:
By mass methane is the most fuel efficient hydrocarbon...and there is strong speculation that methane isn't the only hydrocarbon on Titan...they just can't see through the methane atmosphere to know at the moment but I guess we will just have to wait until 2004 when cassini drops some probes on it. :)
True, it is also the -least- space-efficient hydrocarbon,
what with Avagadro's 'hypothesis' and all. Also a
gas at room temperature, which means either pressurization
(added complexity) or serious cooling (ditto) to use
in moving vehicles.
Also keep in mind that ultimately the hydrocarbon chains
that make life have to be cannibalized from something
during the terraforming process. I would imagine
that only so much original methane remains.
Biodeisel is different, however, but that becomes a
food - fuel trade off, I think more recent settlements
would want to go with food first.
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobknaptor:
Edit: Bob shows her age with words like "AWESOME".
I remember when "awesome" still meant "capable of producing a feeling of awe," such as in "Behold God's awesome majesty," and not, "Wow, that was really awesome, dude!" But then, I also remember when Alaska and Hawaii entered the Union.
m.
------------------------------------------------
"But ... not boring, like she made it sound." Wash, in ARIEL
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Quote:
Originally posted by Silverado:
*sigh*
Hey, LivingImpaired ... do you think they will *ever* stop?
Considering how long I've been here, and how much these discussions have gone nowhere, I'm guessing "no." God, how many posts are in the "My Theory on Guns in Firefly" thread by now. I have a high speed connection, and that thread takes a while to load.
________________
Sorry, sir. Didn't mean to enjoy the moment.
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I'm starting to feel more and more like one of the troika from last season's Buffy as I read/respond to these threads...
______________
But ... everyone knows... if the width of a wormhole cavity is a whole number of wavelengths, plus a fraction of that wavelength? The coinciding particle activity collapses the infrastructure.
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There were too many replys to read all of them, but to you I say................ BITE ME!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
what really really bugs me about technology in Firefly is the weird way it's used.
there was a holographic (or soimething similar) window in the bar in The Train Job. and there were holographic balls on the pool table in Shindig. both bars looked dirty and cheap and backwater to me. why would they have exactly one thing of real fancy technology and this one thing wouldn't be anything useful?
This is after a major war. Civilization has stumbled, if not fallen in many places. Some artifacts survive, mainly because they weren't worth looting or selling for food.
All sorts of strange stuff turned up in strange places after the 1939-1945 war.
At Entebbe airfield in Uganda a whole air terminal sits, still shot up from the raid. The Aircraft involved still sits there. Fighter aircraft with a problem are pushed to one side, can't be fixed. Aircraft just sitting, no owner but the government (such as it is) and noone with the skills to exploit the recycleables.
Jeff Timm
Who wonders about a world where a house can have a satellite link and a color TV, but no indoor plumbing.
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At the moment I am reading a book called "The lexus and the olive tree" by Thomas Friedman. The book is esentially about globablization and the impact it is having on the worlds economy, cultures, technology, and enviornment...one of the most stikeing points put into the book are the huge descrepinies found between the haves and the have-nots.
In one passage the author descibes a train trip he took in egypt in which he was surrounded by the upper class of egypt who all had cell phones labtops PDAs etc and when he would look out the window he saw barefoot farmers tilling the fields along the Nile river with water buffalo. Esentially doing the same work in the same way as people did it durring the time of the pharaohs.
It is fairly obvoiuse that the writers of the show developed this idea of desparity of technology and wealth as a metaphor for what is happing right now in the real world.
hook
http://diogenes.gotdns.org
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Quote:
Originally posted by Evans:
I remember when "awesome" still meant "capable of producing a feeling of awe," such as in "Behold God's awesome majesty," and not, "Wow, that was really awesome, dude!" But then, I also remember when Alaska and Hawaii entered the Union.
And Awful once meant "filling with awe."
Jeff
Who also remembers 48 States, but wants to add four or five from Canada and South Eire...
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“I Think It Was The Greatest TV Show Ever”: Firefly’s Cancellation & Enduring Fandom Reflected On By Alan Tudyk
https://screenrant.com/firefly-show-cancellation-fandom-alan-tudyk-res
ponse/
Firefly: Jewel Staite on Why Series Endures; Fillion Being "The Best"
https://bleedingcool.com/tv/firefly-jewel-staite-on-why-series-endures
-fillion-being-the-best/
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Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
“I Think It Was The Greatest TV Show Ever”: Firefly’s Cancellation & Enduring Fandom Reflected On By Alan Tudyk
https://screenrant.com/firefly-show-cancellation-fandom-alan-tudyk-res
ponse/
I think it certainly could have been.
But alas, it is not. Not even close.
And the movie only served to destroy the TV show, rather than compliment it. Especially when we never got the promised trilogy that may or may not have contained a worthwhile arc.
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"My only fear of death is coming back to this bitch reincarnated." ~Tupac Shakur
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