Scenes you didn't understand

POSTED BY: bufo
UPDATED: Friday, November 9, 2012 23:52
VIEWED: 17194
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BUFO

Thursday, August 4, 2011 9:11 PM

Is there a scene where you didn't really understand where they were going with it? This is not about bad scenes since I can't think of any that are cringe worthy.

Here's mine: In the pilot ep Book knocks on Inara's shuttle while she is giving herself a sponge bath. She says come in before he covers herself up. Book sees and is embarrassed. Why did she do that and what if it had been Mal who knocked or did she hope it was him?

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 4, 2011 10:00 PM

Well, the commentary says that she was upset about the insults from her client and Mal and was cleansing herself.

So what I figure is this:

1) If it was Mal, he wouldn't have knocked anyway, and the woman has to bathe sometime. So in case he did barge in, she did at least have her back turned to the doorway.

2) Since there was a knock, she knew it wasn't Mal, and so wasn't in as much of a hurry.

One possibility is that she might have thought it was Kaylee. We see that Kaylee does often visit Inara, and for Kaylee Inara might have felt fine telling her to come in just before she covered up.

It happens to be Book, but I don't think he saw anything more than her back. Also, when she sees it's Book, she's glad because she has a chance to make a second first impression without Mal deliberately trying to embarrass her, and to talk to Book about any misgivings he might have while he's traveling with them.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, August 4, 2011 11:20 PM

I think she was expecting Book. I dare say a large portion of a companions clients are men of the cloth. She was merely preparing herself.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

BYTEMITE

Thursday, August 4, 2011 11:37 PM

Hmm. I'm not so sure. The only client Inara has I'm not sure about is Atherton. The rest tend to be more Alliance officials or affiliated.

Which in this case is one and the same, but she doesn't know that. I digress.

ECGORDON

Friday, August 5, 2011 12:35 AM

I'm not sure it mattered to Inara who was knocking. She is very comfortable with her body and is not ashamed to be seen unclothed. Even if it had been Mal I think she would have got a kick out of teasing him with a glimpse of what he couldn't have.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, August 5, 2011 2:06 AM

Bytemite wrote:

Quote:
Hmm. I'm not so sure. The only client Inara has I'm not sure about is Atherton. The rest tend to be more Alliance officials or affiliated.

Well I think you have to read between the lines. The relaxed nature in which she accepts Book into her room suggests she's not in the least bit uncomfortable about Book being there. This in turn suggests she's more than familiar with men of the church paying her a visit or two.

And remember book's past is still somewhat of a mystery at this stage and as he said. He wasn't born a Shepherd.

Just a thought.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 5, 2011 3:48 AM

ECGordon: I'm not sure about that, either. This is a lady who's supposed to be, or at least tries to be the epitomy of feminine grace. And while, okay, she has sex with men for money, modesty would still be a virtue, as would mystery.

She even blushes in Shindig when Atherton's being too upfront, I dunno, that says to me that she has her boundaries.

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 5, 2011 3:53 AM

It's not impossible that she's serviced clergy before, yes, but within the context of that scene I don't get the vibe that she thinks Book is there for a little something-something.

I would imagine she'd be a lot less welcoming, considering she's only just finished up trying to settle herself from the other insults and degradations she was subjected to.

RIONAEIRE

Friday, August 5, 2011 4:37 AM

I get the idea that men of the cloth aren't all that common in the core and the rich circles Inara frequents, sure she may have been with some at some point but if she were I don't think it figures into this scene at all. I think Byte's probably right, very common that. I think that companions are rather expensive so lowly not-rich folk probably can't afford one.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Friday, August 5, 2011 9:51 AM

Well the church has plenty of money and for all Inara knows Book could have absconded with church funds.

The question is:

"She says come in before she covers herself up. Book sees and is embarrassed. Why did she do that and what if it had been Mal who knocked or did she hope it was him?"

My reasoning; she did that because she's been with men of the cloth before. It may seem out of context but if Inara is used to Clergymen visiting her, then it explains her lack of concern in covering herself up. Book (to her) is just another conflicted clergymen. (For there are many.)

As for whether she was expecting Mal, I would say no more than any other ordinary day. Given that we later learn Inara is in love with Mal it's fair to assume she's always hoping he'll pay her a visit.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 5, 2011 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I'm not sure it mattered to Inara who was knocking. She is very comfortable with her body and is not ashamed to be seen unclothed. Even if it had been Mal I think she would have got a kick out of teasing him with a glimpse of what he couldn't have.

Plus, as a companion, she's always ready to use her wiles on any man who wanders into her shuttle, invited or no.

Obviously there are questions from Objects in Space, as to what it meant when River was 'reading' the crew...

The reason Inara was crying, after Mal and Nandie had hooked up. I know it's been spoken of, but I still just love that scene.

There are others, of course, but that's all I got at the moment.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Friday, August 5, 2011 3:42 PM

She does say that she expected him.
And I have seen fan-fics that suggest that she knew him in one way or another, including as a former client, which makes her earlier behavior as discrete and careful as possible. Those are as valid a source of theory as any other.

Seems like any time you open up a Firefly question, all you get are more questions. Maybe that's why we love it so much.

STORYMARK

Friday, August 5, 2011 4:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
The relaxed nature in which she accepts Book into her room suggests she's not in the least bit uncomfortable about Book being there.

I never got the impression Inara was all that uncomfortable with anyone. Part of the job, really.

I think you ma be projecting your own notions about clergy into this.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 5, 2011 9:22 PM

I think I would agree that religious entities and authorities are given a bad rap nowadays, we're all so used to hearing about the hypocrisy. We almost more expect a preacher on television to be corrupt than played straight, and Book is one of a few in a long time who mostly plays the honest shepherd (even with his past).

The world of Firefly does often contend with the issue of hypocrisy, as do some of Whedon's other works. But I don't think Inara had ulterior motives, and I don't think she suspects people of ulterior motives. In some ways, she is very naive.

So I see nothing more in that scene other than what is directly portrayed. She is surprised that Book came to her shuttle, but she was expecting him to come by sometime with a lecture about the evils of her profession. She is surprised again when he is tolerant instead. That's what the lines of their conversation suggests, and so I think that's what's really going on.

BUFO

Friday, August 5, 2011 10:16 PM

Thanks everyone for your interesting responses. I think she may have enjoyed making Book feel a bit uncomfortable before she got to know him. That actually makes her a lot like Mal in that respect if that's the case.

BYTEMITE

Friday, August 5, 2011 10:53 PM

Maybe, though it wouldn't be possible to know for certain who it was until Book startled and started to apologize.

PLATONIST

Friday, August 5, 2011 11:50 PM

These scenes, the bathing one, and the crying one, purposefully follow instances where her feelings were hurt, they give the viewer a glimpse of Inara, the person, rather than the Companion, as they’re very personal and private to her character in particular. She’s washing off the insults and crying out the pain of heartbreak, symbolically, a human thing to do. It’s how I’ve come to appreciate them.

In the bathing scene, I don’t think she was expecting anyone, when she saw it was Book, she continued, out of defiance, much like Mal would.

THESOMNAMBULIST

Saturday, August 6, 2011 2:08 AM

Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:
I think you ma be projecting your own notions about clergy into this.

Nope.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

THESOMNAMBULIST

Saturday, August 6, 2011 2:27 AM

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Quote:
Seems like any time you open up a Firefly question, all you get are more questions. Maybe that's why we love it so much.

So true NewOldBrownCoat

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

M52NICKERSON

Saturday, August 6, 2011 6:27 PM

I've never read to much into the scene.

Inara expected Book not because she served many holy men, but she expected him to try and preach to her. While she may often blush, and act modest to entice clients and Mal, I think she is very comfortable with her body and had no need to entice Book.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, August 7, 2011 2:59 AM

I don't think she was trying to entice Atherton there, either. His forwardness and possessiveness were kind of putting her off a little, shaming her. She's still a little wary when they start to dance, and seems almost afraid to say no to his offer even though she can't accept.

Otherwise, I'd agree with that take on her and Book.

M52NICKERSON

Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:47 PM

I agree, I was not thinking of Wing when I wrote my response. He always seems a strange fit for her. Almost as if she took him as a client more for his status then anything else.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

BYTEMITE

Sunday, August 7, 2011 6:52 PM

I think she probably had some fine appointments with him, but that this time around he started to get a little weird because he was starting to become a little obsessive, and apparently he had some psychopathic tendencies even before then (a little too enthusiastic about killing people in duels). Mal just happened to make it worse.

RIONAEIRE

Monday, August 8, 2011 3:10 AM

I agree with M52's theory as a valid interpretation, makes sense to me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

M52NICKERSON

Monday, August 8, 2011 9:40 PM

Okay, I have a couple that are more questions then not understanding.

First, in Safe the scene where Mal is telling Simon to take a walk with River there is a strange shot of a bush that just seems jammed in the middle of the conversation. I've never understood this.

Second, in Objects, who things that River is really walking through the ship? Personally I've never thought she really was because no one responds to her. Thoughts?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

ECGORDON

Monday, August 8, 2011 9:59 PM

That scene in "Safe" was to indicate that the backwoodsmen were hiding in the bushes. They heard Mal call Simon a doctor, and that is when they decided to kidnap him.

I've always been of the opinion that River was not walking through the ship, or if she was it was through astral projection.

BYTEMITE

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:40 PM

Hmm, normally I double check to see if the glitch ate my post. Anyway, yeah, what ecgordon said.

As for River in OIS it could be a number of things. One theory I've heard is that she was actually going down into Jayne's bunk for a gun, because people think Jayne is very professional and careful with his guns.

I think she probably just found one of the "in-case-of-ambush" guns taped up somewhere.

But no, she didn't have to be physically walking past any of the crew, unless her ability to read people is dependent on her ability to see them.

RIONAEIRE

Monday, August 8, 2011 10:52 PM

I don't think River was literally walking through the ship in OIS. As was said no one responds to her, not even Simon and Kaylee, so that tells me that she wasn't really standing there in front of them. I do think she was wandering around the ship, just not in the places where the people she is observing actually were. I know she must have been wandering since she found a gun (which I believe someone left out) and then we see her in there with everyone. Bottom line: They absolutely need to keep guns locked in their bunks or keep them on theire person at all times, it is not okay to leave them around where River could accidentally get at them. When you're looking after touched folk you need to make the environment as condusive to that as possible. Period.

I suspect that Jayne isn't all that careful with his guns, sure he treats them well, cleans them maintains them, doesn't like people playing with them, but he seems the type to leave them out and assume that no one will touch them because he's made it clear that they shouldn't. But with River when she isn't lucid it isn't that easy.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 8, 2011 11:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
[B

I suspect that Jayne isn't all that careful with his guns, sure he treats them well, cleans them maintains them, doesn't like people playing with them, but he seems the type to leave them out and assume that no one will touch them because he's made it clear that they shouldn't. But with River when she isn't lucid it isn't that easy.

I would disagree with that-- I would think that any person who makes his living with guns knows that they are a lethal force in his own hands, and a lethal hazard in the hands of any other person or in any uncontrolled situation. Therefore,I would think that keeping track of the location of any known firearm not absolutely secured and locked up is a matter of second nature to any such person. I would figure that anybody who doesn't winds up dead, sooner rather than later.
Any of you habitual carriers or security types care to comment?

M52NICKERSON

Monday, August 8, 2011 11:47 PM

NewOld I'm going to agree with you. I tend to believe Jayne when he says he does not leave his guns out. We also see Simon already talking to her to put the gun down and it seems he came from the common area. So River may have walked through there. Another question, is that the same gun she used in War Stories? If so it was given to Kaylee from the lockers just inside the cargo bay.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:18 AM

Ooh, now that's a possibility. Even if the lockers were, well, locked, River would automatically know the combination. There isn't anything that she couldn't get into.

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 3:44 AM

All they have to do is get some fingerprint recognition locks for the lockers, I'm sure such technology would exist in 2517, you just set it up to only recognize certain fingerprints and check it occasionally to make sure the program hasn't been somehow altered. Or have keys that people keep in their bunks and have locks that use voice recognition to open. Come to think of it they could use voice recognition locks on the lockers. All I'm saying is that we can indeed have a ship that is safe for River and safe for everyone else too, it just takes some thinking outside of the box. They need some new ideas since the current plans weren't working so well come OIS. But it can be mannaged.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 1:38 PM

I believe River (physical River) was walking around the ship.

The crew ignoring her or not being aware she was there was the design of the episode to compound her sense of not being part of the crew. It's like a visual soliloquoy. Basically it's River saying:

Look I can pass around these people, hear their conversations (in the flesh) yet I'm not a affecting the dynamic. It's like I don't exist...

The way it's filmed is to imply she is just floating around as though she isn't there, but she in fact is. Which becomes all the more apparent when an object (in Space) such as Jaynes gun finds it's self in here very dangerous hands. That object the crew do take notice of, but not River. That (I thought) was the point of the episode.

I also think Jayne would not leave his guns lying around.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
All they have to do is get some fingerprint recognition locks for the lockers, I'm sure such technology would exist in 2517, you just set it up to only recognize certain fingerprints and check it occasionally to make sure the program hasn't been somehow altered. Or have keys that people keep in their bunks and have locks that use voice recognition to open. Come to think of it they could use voice recognition locks on the lockers. All I'm saying is that we can indeed have a ship that is safe for River and safe for everyone else too, it just takes some thinking outside of the box. They need some new ideas since the current plans weren't working so well come OIS. But it can be mannaged.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

I can see your point on the locks, but we are talking about a ship that worries about running out of food.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 2:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
I believe River (physical River) was walking around the ship.

The crew ignoring her or not being aware she was there was the design of the episode to compound her sense of not being part of the crew. It's like a visual soliloquoy. Basically it's River saying:

Look I can pass around these people, hear their conversations (in the flesh) yet I'm not a affecting the dynamic. It's like I don't exist...

The way it's filmed is to imply she is just floating around as though she isn't there, but she in fact is. Which becomes all the more apparent when an object (in Space) such as Jaynes gun finds it's self in here very dangerous hands. That object the crew do take notice of, but not River. That (I thought) was the point of the episode.

I also think Jayne would not leave his guns lying around.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

I can see everyone ignoring her except for the Captain and Inara. I guess the argument could be made that they did not see her.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, August 9, 2011 2:42 PM

Damn double posts!

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 4:33 AM

I used to think that, that she really was right in front of Simon and Kaylee etc. but then I thought how weird it would be if Simon didn't even talk to her, what kind of crummy caregiver is that? Yes we all know Simon has a lot to learn about how to best look after River, but he loves her very much and I doubt that even the distraction of Kaylee would keep him busy enough not to notice her. Your point about how they only notice the "object" and not River makes sense, but the logistics of it are such that Simon would have said something to her, that's what I think. If Joss had meant it as the symbolic meaning you suggest then he wasn't thinking about Simon's caregiver instincts, which aren't perfect, but his heart is in the right place and he always talks to River when she's there in front of him.

As for the monitary concerns, I know what you mean M52, but this is realllllly important so we need to start saving up for, or rigging up, such devices so everyone can be safe and free to wander and enjoy the ship.

Yes I know I'm heavily biased here, but I doubt too many people come at this situation with my same angle.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:38 PM

RionaEire wrote:

Quote:
I used to think that, that she really was right in front of Simon and Kaylee etc. but then I thought how weird it would be if Simon didn't even talk to her, what kind of crummy caregiver is that?

Simon treats River as a patient and a sister, but is less inclined to engage with her when he wants casual conversation... For this, Kaylee takes precedence. That is the purpose of that scene. When he isn't preoccupied with River he's able to laugh and relax and be himself. River is witness to that and that further alienates her from the crew; the crew that is more and more becoming a family unit. (But she must witness it for her to realise this)

RionaEire wrote:

Quote:
If Joss had meant it as the symbolic meaning you suggest then he wasn't thinking about Simon's caregiver instincts, which aren't perfect, but his heart is in the right place and he always talks to River when she's there in front of him.

Joss was thinking about those instincts but this episode is about River seeing (literally) our crew outside of their regular roles, and realising that she doesn't belong. Each member of the crew are partnered up for this moment of realisation, and she has to have been there (physically) to conclude that the crew would all be happier if she weren't there. And thus comes the rationalé that she should be Jubal Early's bounty.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 4:13 PM

Okay, building off of that I have a question. At the end of OIS when River says she'll be Jubal Early's bounty, is she serious, or is that still part of her plan to trick him? Most people think it was still part of her plan, that she wouldn't have gone with him, that when River is this lucid she's got a solid plan and that it all fits together. But I don't know what I think. All I know is that my heart breaks for her in that scene, I don't want her to feel unloved and unwanted. Thoughts?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 6:29 PM

Very possibly both. I could see her hurting and saying that, she's having to deal with the changes that were done to her and that's bound to lead to some depression. Perhaps she's venting some of her real worries and feelings at the moment, but it also happens to make her performance convincing for her trick.

IMNOTHERE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 7:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I used to think that, that she really was right in front of Simon and Kaylee etc.

Everybody seems to be forgetting that the people she watches do turn around and talk to her (apart from Wash and Zoe who are otherwise occupied). River seems to hear their innermost thoughts, but maybe they're actually saying "Howdee, River, how are you this fine mornin'" I'm also guessing that River would be pretty good at sneaking up on people without them noticing.

...but that's still a bit literal-minded. What I see is a glimpse into River's personal "augmented reality" as she thinks about her relationships with the crew. I don't think River knows, or cares, what is real and what is in her head at this point, so why should we?

Also, I think it was established later in this episode that Jayne keeps his guns behind a blanket taped to the wall above his bed.

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:18 PM

If she didn't get that gun from somewhere misplaced then we've got to get better locks on the bunks, pure and simple, this isn't a luxury, this is a necessity and will make everything safer for everyone.
I don't know the answer to that one Byte, that's why I tossed it out there for others to look at and see what they think.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:26 PM

Originally posted by RionaEire:

Quote:
Okay, building off of that I have a question. At the end of OIS when River says she'll be Jubal Early's bounty, is she serious, or is that still part of her plan to trick him? Most people think it was still part of her plan, that she wouldn't have gone with him, that when River is this lucid she's got a solid plan and that it all fits together. But I don't know what I think. All I know is that my heart breaks for her in that scene, I don't want her to feel unloved and unwanted. Thoughts?

I personally think it's part of the plan but it is also said as a way to get the crew's attention. It allows River to highlight her alienation from the group by being so extreme as to say she'll gladly be Jubal Early's bounty. It's a shocking remark for the crew to hear, and they immediately become aware of the way they have been 'overlooking' River as a person.

I think unloved is probably right. River is for much of the show regarded as an oddity. The crew are protective of her but at the same time that doesn't automatically equate with love. And I think it's love that River is most in need off. This episode more than any other illustrates how removed River is from the rest of the crew.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:31 PM

It bothers me how often River isn't present during crew interactions. Simon keeps her alone too often in my opinion, I don't know what she's always doing, sleeping maybe? I think its important for her to be where everyone else is and as much part of things as possible, that way she feels included and more fulfilled and involved. Besides if she's with us then we aren't wondering where she is and what she might be doing.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:33 PM

Originally posted by ImNotHere:

Quote:
Also, I think it was established later in this episode that Jayne keeps his guns behind a blanket taped to the wall above his bed.

This would add credence to Jubal's remark asking Simon if she share's a bunk with any of the crew... Could be she got the gun from Jayne when she paid him a visit...?

*stir, stir*

hmmm

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
It bothers me how often River isn't present during crew interactions. Simon keeps her alone too often in my opinion, I don't know what she's always doing, sleeping maybe? I think its important for her to be where everyone else is and as much part of things as possible, that way she feels included and more fulfilled and involved. Besides if she's with us then we aren't wondering where she is and what she might be doing.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

I think we also have to be mindful that River is a teen. So maybe prone to outbursts of emotional hyperbole. (At least as a vehicle for the writers to conjure conflict)

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

IMNOTHERE

Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Could be she got the gun from Jayne when she paid him a visit...?

Ain't gonna happen.

First, Jayne does have some principles. Probably along the lines of "I'd take advantage of a woman if she was comin' on to me, or if I thought she might come on to me, or if I was payin', but take advantage of a teenage girl who ain't right in the head? When did that get fun?"

Second, he's smart enough to know that if he took advantage of River (1) Mal would pound him to a greasy smear on the deck; (2) Wash would make sardonic comments while Zoe pounded him to a greasy smear on the deck (3) Shepard "kneecaps" Book would absolve him of his shins (sorry... sins... easy mistake... I'm sure they'll grow back...); (4) Inara would make earrings out of his gonads (5) His chance of sleeping with Kaylee would reduce from zero to (hmmm... carry the zero) less than zero and (6) after all that, Simon would stay true to his Hippocratic oath and treat his wounds (while apologizing profusely for the inexplicable shortage of sharp scalpels and anesthetic).

Plus River could kill him with her brain (what he doesn't know at this point is that she could also pound him to a greasy smear on the deck).

No, I think that comment was just Early being screwed up.

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:37 PM

I agree that the comment was just Early being gross, though to be fair Early doesn't know River is touched, so maybe Early doesn't even know how inapropriate it would be. He does know though that River is 17 though, but you'd be surprised how many people don't see that as an obsticle.

Death To Rayne.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

THESOMNAMBULIST

Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:41 PM

I'mnothere.

I'm not saying they did anything or even that Jayne was present to accpet the visit, but that a visit was paid....

But I would suggest this. In writing a TV show very few remarks are thown in without some reasoning behind it.

Could be at a later date Joss had plans for these two and this was but one of the seeds he'd planted. We'll never know of course and it's purely conjecture on my part.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

TWO

Thursday, August 11, 2011 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I agree that the comment was just Early being gross, though to be fair Early doesn't know River is touched, so maybe Early doesn't even know how inappropriate it would be. He does know though that River is 17 though, but you'd be surprised how many people don't see that as an obstacle.

Death To Rayne.

Why is Early asking rude questions about River's sex life? Because the lowest of the low, in Early's estimation, are uncaring or unrefined about who sleeps with who. ( Maybe he got that idea about the lower class from watching True Blood. Those people are trashy.)
Early was beating, threatening, assaulting a ship full of riffraff, in his opinion. That's why he's a bounty-hunter, because it is a profession where there is an endless supply of nobodies deserving whatever punishments he feels most exciting at the moment. ( Early could have been a bad cop, but being at the bottom of a hierarchy doesn't feel right to him – he's a King, a lion.)

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

IMNOTHERE

Friday, August 12, 2011 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

I'm not saying they did anything or even that Jayne was present to accpet the visit, but that a visit was paid....

Seriously? You cited Early, and when he mentioned "sharing a bunk" I'm pretty sure he didn't mean they were taking turns to use it.

Quote:

But I would suggest this. In writing a TV show very few remarks are thown in without some reasoning behind it.

Well, yes - in this case, establishing Early as a slime (lest we think he's a noble bounty hunter with a penchant for philosophy). Combined with his threats to Kaylee this also establishes that we really, really don't want to see him whisk River off in his one-man spaceship even though our Big Damned Heroes would surely race to the rescue.

I'm sure River's hormones would have made an appearance if the series continued. I suspect she'd have developed a serious crush on Mal - who wouldn't do anything in a million years (but that wouldn't stop some major bust-ups with Simon).

THESOMNAMBULIST

Saturday, August 13, 2011 3:27 AM

Hey I'mnothere.

A few things I should clear up on my notion.
In this episode there are a few things that have been suggested and a few things that occur as event.

Firtsly we have River with a Gun. - Event

Secondly we have Early saying that maybe River shares a bunk with someone. - Suggestion

Now. Having learned that River was earlier found with a gun, it's not entirely unreasonable to assume that maybe she picked up that gun from Jayne's quaters - an assumption which is later confirmed by Mal. In itself there is nothing untoward about this remark as it's entirely credible that River merely wandered around and happened to go to Jayne's quarters and picked up the gun.

However when we later hear Early 'suggest' that River possibly 'shares' a bunk, the idea that River strolled in and took a gun from Jayne's bunk now raises a few connotations. Completlely unfounded I grant you, however it does lead one to suspect that maybe Jayne and River's relationship has become something else. Something physical...? This would also fall into place with Jayne's very defensive manner with Mal over the whole issue of where River picked up the gun in the first place.

(To quote Hamlet."The Lady doth protest too much." Though obviosly in this case it's Jayne who does protest too much.)

Now of course this is all specualtion on my part and I will concede it's unlikely that River and Jayne where doing anything at all. However in the context of TV, and in particular with TV shows that Joss scribes, these little things are often indicators of just where the show may indeed head.

Now when I cited Early, I did so to illustrate how a seemingly offhanded remark can often be quite indicative of something far greater. I didn't at the time believe the idea either. Indeed my reaction was akin to Simon's when he heard it.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 31, 2012 1:03 AM

I didn't read the entriely of the thread, but the OP with Book/Inara had not really occured to me.

Inara may have heard the commotion from dinner regarding Kaylee, and thought perhaps Kaylee was knocking.
Inara doesn't service crew, so teasing doesn't seem like something she does onboard.
I thought it clear that she had her back to the camera, front or partial front to the entrance, so Book would have had a clear view before diverting his eyes. I would not be surprised that she could sense that Book was not born a Sheppard, and she was not trying to embarrass him.

06K64

Thursday, November 1, 2012 2:22 AM

I've got one from Serenity (the film):

When River is cuffed and locked in the storage room off the galley, she seems to be awoken by an eerie voice exclaiming: "Cut them down!" (before waking up again, as if from a nighmare within a dream.)

Any idea what "Cut them down!" is a reference to? Is it something as simple (and random) as that scene from Bushwhacked, or does anybody have other ideas?

RIONAEIRE

Monday, November 5, 2012 8:29 PM

Doesn't Mal say that in Safe when he's telling the villagers to let Simon and River go from the stake? That's the first thing that comes to mind for me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

06K64

Monday, November 5, 2012 11:20 PM

Ha- "Yeah, but she's OUR witch..!" Love that scene. Interesting. I hadn't thought to make that connection.

I just figure it has to mean something. I can't believe anything was left in the final cut just randomly since they made such an effort to keep the film under 2hrs. (1hr 59 mins, right?) There has to be a reason.

I bet it'll get revealed in the sequel...

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Doesn't Mal say that in Safe when he's telling the villagers to let Simon and River go from the stake? That's the first thing that comes to mind for me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, November 6, 2012 2:36 PM

I think River has overwhelming problems with her neurotransmitters, hormones and urges would be barely a blip on her radar compared to the constant battle she will have with her mind and her fears.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Alliance did something to "fix" her. A pregnant supersoldier throwing up a lot or even just going through monthly hormonal swings isn't exactly something that's useful to them. And if they want more Rivers, it's easier for them to harvest her ovaries and grow her eggs in a test tube or find a surrogate. There's a lab technician out there, creepily handling her eggs and getting all excited about fertilizing them, you just know it. Alliance is SO screwed up.

While I think one of the things River really wants is normalcy, I don't think giving her a romantic arc is the best way to do that, especially considering the unfortunate implications and insurmountable problems it would pose for her partner, and based on our understanding of the plot and situation it makes far more sense for her to be incapable of that. Also, if River were capable, she would never want the Alliance to be able to take any children from her, and I suspect she'd simply choose not to have them.

River can find a different normal. I'm sure she'd love to be an aunt for Simon's kids.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, November 6, 2012 11:06 PM

...Can not tell if you are being metaphorical.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/normalcy?s=t

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, November 7, 2012 12:08 AM

It arose in 1855. Harding just popularized it. But even then, it's a real word, just as slang words are real. It doesn't matter when they were created so long as they mean something. Otherwise we'd all be speaking Chaucer English and that stuff is hard.

RIONAEIRE

Wednesday, November 7, 2012 3:08 AM

As for River's reference to her father in Safe, it could be either way, nonlucidness, or her referring to Mal, I'm not married to either interpretation. As to River and romance, if its necessary they can just bring a touched boy into the story and he and River can fall in love. then I won't worry about mutual concent issues and everyone will be happy. But again, romance isn't necessary for every charactor in every show, sometimes stories are more interesting when romance doesn't figure into them. Just like in real life some of us marry, some of us have lovers, some of us really don't, there are all kinds.

And being an auntie is super, River would love being Aunt River! I like being Auntie to my niece and nephews. Plus my little brother is only 10, so I have lots of wonderful little ones in my life, I don't need to reproduce to be fulfilled and love wonderful kids.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:03 AM

No worries, I need to lighten up now and then.

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 9, 2012 3:12 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't River referring to Mal be the nonlucid one?

Not if she's psychic, identifies Mal as a father figure, and knows he actually is coming to the rescue.

It would be a bigger break with reality if she thought her actual father, Gabriel Tam, was going to show up in the backwoods and stop people from burning her at the stake.