The plot thickens

POSTED BY: whozit
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:37
VIEWED: 10631
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OONJERAH

Thursday, March 29, 2012 10:13 PM (P)

Shouldn't there be a thread about the Justice System, USA?

Maybe another about how Most people are sorta nuts, but many others are truly insane.

Or personal responsibility means choosing sanity over the crazy Hyde within.

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, March 30, 2012 1:29 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Your right to point out flaws, the thing is you are claiming that those flaws indicate that the whole system is in it self flawed. Guess what, there is no perfect system. Yes, changes can be made. Calling into question certian events, such as the investigation of the Martin case is good. Your not doing that. You come off as saying that coruption is the norm and should be expected in every case. Should people within the system be repremanded, absolutly. Should they be banned, yes depending on what they did.

Not quite, I am saying corruption is BECOMING the norm, and we ought put a freakin stop to it, become less accepting and tolerant of it, and start applying social and legal pressure.

Quote:
A person that does something wrong for a long time is still wrong.

You don't seem to get where I am coming from.

I try to point out leaks before they become floods, I try to bring attention to issues which damn well need attention, and part of my attitude about it comes from being pretty damned accurate about these things overall, and still taking six tons of shit about it when I bring them up.

It wasn't THAT long ago that abuse within the catholic church, and behavior modification hellcamps were considered urban legends, just a myth, no-such-thing... that only changed cause of folks *willing* to be assholes about it in order to bring attention to the problem despite being shouted down, mocked and sneered at, but that was over a long period of time - so to be more specific, there's been many things right here on this very board we've been through this same dance, I point out a problem or potential problem, get this kinda treatment, and yet when the dust settles...

Let's see, off the top of my head, just topics discussed here on this board;
Giving cops tasers without proper oversight is a bad idea.
Gardasil is not safe and effective, with significant and dangerous side effects.
The FLDS case was baseless and overreaching.
Government spying on civilians was far vaster and more invasive than admitted.
The State had no proper right to go after Maryanne Godboldo.

Each time, the same dance - so yeah, I got a bit of an attitude about it.
OTOH, look at the conduct of police, the brutality, the lies, the institutional corruption once passed off as isolated incidents and a few bad apples, now FINALLY brought to light by turning their surveillence society around on THEM, only now finally even BEGINNING to be addressed because of that self-same nobody's perfect, the system works shrug, only how many peoples lives and livelyhoods got wrecked in the meantime cause of that kind of denial ?
A denial which not only persists in light of the mounting evidence that those of us bitching were right the whole damn time, but has also resulted in some pretty strange legal manipulation in order to make it okay to for them to film us, but not okay for us to film them - which is a prevailing attitude within our justice system that is very damned corrosive to the nature of justice itself, either the same rules, rights and responsibilities apply to us all, or it's just tyranny by another name.

No, we're never gonna have a perfect system, but that is no reason to ignore, to not address KNOWN problems, and re-examine the system itself in order to start patching common flaw exploitation - look for example at that whole Cash-for-Kids scandal, that wasn't JUST two Judges, in order for that to happen it required a high level of institutional corruption within an entire court system, including the very folk supposed to have prevented it, the folk supposed to report that shit, and those most affected or harmed were unable to do any bloody thing about it cause the provisions to correct matters like this are either non-existent, or so weak and poorly enforced that they are ineffective.
Like a rotten onion, every time you peel back another layer, there's another level of corruption, it's not something we can just slap a bandaid on, we really do have to re-examine the sy

M52NICKERSON

Friday, March 30, 2012 11:52 AM (P)

We address issues of abuse of power and corruption just as we are doing, by looking at things and asking questions. The thing is you can't tell me that things a worse now then they were before the internet, social media, DNA evidence, and a whole range of other things.

Its hard for me to believe that you are simply pointing out the cracks when you rant about a slanted system and institutionalized corruption. That is what you get flack for. You can ask questions, and keep asking questions so loudly and often that people have no option but to address them. That is far different then leveling charges and creating drumheads.

Corruption and things such as hellcamps are brought down when people start asking questions, and do so in a serious way. Not by screaming wildly on street corners like a raving lunatic.

Yes this board has discussed a lot of issues and just like many boards looked at potential problems. Sometimes those seemingly overblown arguments turned out to be right, sometimes they were nothing but overblown arguments. However in each case it was not until more facts came out that the reality of the situation was seen that something happened. Those facts came out by the people looking for facts, not looking to achieve a certain end.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NIKI2

Friday, March 30, 2012 7:14 PM (P)

Nick, I think most of us here take into account what Frem's experienced when we read his posts. He has reason to feel the way he does, and has observed and experienced things most of us never will. While I agree, his way isn't the solution and it's frustrating how narrow-viewed he can sometimes be, AND you're right on a number of your points, I usually find it pretty easy to read between the lines, filter out what comes from his past experience and understand why he feels the way he does.

Quote:
Learn to take a compliment you angry crip.

Oooo, there's another goodie to remember when anyone tries to defend Wulf.

M52NICKERSON

Friday, March 30, 2012 8:13 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Nick, I think most of us here take into account what Frem's experienced when we read his posts. He has reason to feel the way he does, and has observed and experienced things most of us never will. While I agree, his way isn't the solution and it's frustrating how narrow-viewed he can sometimes be, AND you're right on a number of your points, I usually find it pretty easy to read between the lines, filter out what comes from his past experience and understand why he feels the way he does.

This I know, thing is Frem also has a pretty go idea his views are slanted. That means he can adjust.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, March 30, 2012 8:53 PM (P)

"Oooo, there's another goodie to remember when anyone tries to defend Wulf."

Please do, you barren succubus.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

ANTHONYT

Friday, March 30, 2012 9:07 PM (P)

Hello Wulf,

I'm most worried about you referring to people as 'stupid rat creatures' which is the same kind of dehumanizing tool I cautioned Six about.

But I don't even know if I can reach you.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

WULFENSTAR

Friday, March 30, 2012 9:19 PM (P)

Never read Bone, I take it?

Look it up.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

ANTHONYT

Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Never read Bone, I take it?

Look it up.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Hello,

It's not your inspiration, but rather your destination, that concerns me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

NIKI2

Friday, March 30, 2012 10:35 PM (P)

Quote:
But I don't even know if I can reach you.

Give it up, Anthony: You can't.

That last curse was interesting, Wulf. Sounded an awful lot like...what was his name? The really evil poster who was so vile and horrid. Can't remember...but maybe he was a sickpuppy of yours or vice versa, dunno. All I know is shit like that does you far more harm than it ever would me, but will be remembered by many. I guess that's what you want to project, which is sad.

OONJERAH

Friday, March 30, 2012 11:15 PM (P)

Mutual respect is really important. If respect falters, civility can remain.
Anthony is a fine example.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, March 31, 2012 12:34 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

Mutual respect is really important. If respect falters, civility can remain.
Anthony is a fine example.

Yeah. Fine example of bearing false witness.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

NIKI2

Saturday, March 31, 2012 5:59 PM (P)

I like Anthony's style. Even when he's nasty, he does it semi-nicely, and it always makes me laugh.

RIONAEIRE

Monday, April 2, 2012 6:27 AM (P)

When I first showed up on the doorstep I had a hard time believing everything Frem said, sure some of it seemed to make sense, but some of it was way out there. But the thing is that the longer I know him the more it makes sense given his experiences and I've come to believe most of it. As for conspiracies, I think we need some conspiracy theorists out there to keep humanity on its toes, so we look at stuff that we would normally just gloss over, because complacence is how the government/corporations/authority figures trick us into accepting stuff that isn't acceptable.

And yeah Wulf that was mean, the startling irrelevence is like what Wish said to me in the other thread for no good reason, I don't tollerate irrelevent insults and now that you mention it I remember you doing that before and I thought it was nasty and irrelevent, thanks for reminding me that that's how you roll.

Anthony's chalkboard scratching civility is humorous, I can tell he's royally pissed but his wit makes it funny, even when he's pissed at me. Anthony has my respect.

When people are mean to me I try not to be mean back in the same ways, I try to limit my meanness and, when I'm weak and give in, I try and be mean sideways, people may not like it, but I think it makes them squirm more than if I was just going to be mean regular.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NIKI2

Monday, April 2, 2012 3:36 PM (P)

Riona, doll, I don't think ANYONE here "squirms". RWE is a pretty hot "kitchen" some of the time, and we usually warn newcomers of that. People have to be pretty hard boiled to hang around here long--or even WANT to, so I don't think you can make anyone squirm. There may be a couple of exceptions, but especially those who are deliberately mean are "unsquirmable". ;o)

Believe it or not, this place is FAR more civil than a few others I could mention, but it's still no place for those who can't give as good as they get sometimes!

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:17 AM (P)

I think "squirm can be interpreted in different ways. I guess I define squirm as someone getting really mad about something that really shouldn't have been that bad ... or should it have.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:51 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I think "squirm can be interpreted in different ways. I guess I define squirm as someone getting really mad about something that really shouldn't have been that bad ... or should it have.

Your definition is wrong, I hate to say.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:04 AM (P)

Okay I could stop calling that squirming, that's just what it feels like to me, when someone blows something way out of proportion, but it doesn't sound like that's the accepted definition of squirm, so I'll figure out something else to call it.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

OONJERAH

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:51 AM (P)

Quote Riona: "when someone blows something way out of proportion,"

Takes it personal

Over-reacts

Goes ballistic

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:04 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Okay I could stop calling that squirming, that's just what it feels like to me, when someone blows something way out of proportion, but it doesn't sound like that's the accepted definition of squirm, so I'll figure out something else to call it.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Riona - I was KIDDING! :) Well, not entirely, I mean, yours is a unique take on the word 'squirming', but so what ? You're kinda unique,imo. But to come out and flatly state that your personal interpretation of 'squirm' was wrong... well, THAT was me being silly. Kinda a spin on the whole " somewhere, someone on the internet is wrong! " idea, and there being a need to do something about it...

OK, perhaps a bit too subtle attempt @ humor.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

NIKI2

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:00 PM (P)

Riona, I think you do need another term.

To squirm:

Quote:
1. to move with a wriggling motion; writhe
2. to feel deep mental discomfort, guilt, embarrassment, etc.

People "squirm" out of embarrassment, guilt, etc., what you're saying is more like "piss them off". Definitely not making them squirm!

STORYMARK

Wednesday, April 4, 2012 6:05 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Never read Bone, I take it?

Look it up.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Hello,

It's not your inspiration, but rather your destination, that concerns me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

Didn't you hear - dehumanizing is okay, as long as the term comes from a comic. It's like, a law now.

Spoon!

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, April 7, 2012 3:01 AM (P)

There were no cameras, that I'm aware of, and a true verdict can't possibly be found....

OONJERAH

Sunday, April 8, 2012 10:04 PM (P)

Martin family’s attorney seeks Justice Dept. investigation
into police actions after shooting => http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/martin-familys-attorney-seeks-j
ustice-dept-investigation-into-police-actions-after-shooting/2012/04/02/gIQAnD2prS_story.html

"Lawyer Benjamin Crump said in an interview he has information that
'family members' of neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman were
at the police department in Sanford, Fla., the night of the Feb. 26
shooting. Crump also alleged that a meeting took place that evening
between Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee and Florida State Attorney Norm
Wolfinger.

“After those meetings, they mysteriously dropped the charges,” Crump said.

"Wolfinger issued a statement disputing the allegations, saying he was
'outraged by the outright lies contained' in a letter Crump sent to Justice
officials requesting an investigation."
..........

Oonj: OK. Now I'm confused. I never heard anything about Zimmerman's
family getting involved on the night of the shooting. I recall reading
something like this: "After the initial questioning of Zimmerman at the
police station, the lead homicide detective recommended that Zimmerman
be arrested and charged with manslaughter. Detective Chris Serino
wrote an affidavit saying that he did not find Zimmerman’s statements
credible and wanted to pursue charges."
Then Wolfinger was contacted by phone and said no charge.

I won't choose a side in this argument. After all, Crump & Wolfinger are
both lawyers. If I may fix Crump's statement for him: "they mysteriously
and prematurely dropped the whole investigation."

What worries me is, there is already far too much heat in the situation.
Protest = good. Agitation = bad. I fear more violence.

"Special prosecutor Angela Corey's office declined comment."
I am liking Ms. Corey for trying to keep a lid on it.

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

OONJERAH

Monday, April 9, 2012 11:11 PM (P)

Grand jury canceled in Trayvon Martin case =>
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-09/trayvon-martin-gr
and-jury/54135360/1

The decision not to use a grand jury should not be considered
a factor in Corey's final determination of the case, her office
said in a statement yesterday morning.

Corey was appointed special prosecutor on March 22 by Gov. Rick
Scott. State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, who handled the case before
it was given to Corey, scheduled the grand jury, which was set
to convene today.

Corey has long had a reputation for not using grand juries if
it wasn't necessary. In Florida, only first-degree murder cases
require the use of grand juries. There is no accusation of pre-
meditated murder in the Martin case, so a first-degree murder
charge is not an option.

Both Reep and Richard Rosenbaum, a Fort Lauderdale criminal
defense attorney, say it's easy to get an indictment from a
grand jury because only the prosecution presents evidence.
There is no judge or defense attorney.

Deciding on charges without a grand jury is "a fairer way to
sort out the evidence against Zimmerman" and "leaves it to
experienced prosecutors," Rosenbaum said.

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

FREMDFIRMA

Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:37 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
In Florida, only first-degree murder cases
require the use of grand juries. There is no accusation of pre-
meditated murder in the Martin case, so a first-degree murder
charge is not an option.

Ah, see - this I did not know.
Otherwise I wouldn't have included it as the default (and probable) option given that the appropriate (initial) charge would be Second Degree Murder, bartered or pleaded down to Manslaughter of whatever nomenclature.

-F

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