"NOW Do You Believe in Global Warming?"

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Monday, August 27, 2012 01:07
VIEWED: 17672
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NIKI2

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:36 PM

Means nothing to the deniers, so you guys, just go your way. I know: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter". S'arright, you'll die off with the rest of us. Because as far as I'm concerned, we've already passed "tipping point" and any efforts we or the rest of the world make will only manage to hold it at bay for a while. Too bad humans take so long to be convinced of their own impending doom...maybe we could have stopped it if we'd used our brains early enough.

Quote:
Back in February of 2010, Senator James Inhofe's grandchildren built an igloo for Al Gore. Inhofe is an Oklahoma Republican and the most skeptical of Congressional climate deniers; he's the one who called global warming "the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people." The 2010 winter was one of the snowiest in recent memory — including a massive blizzard that February that became known as "Snowmageddon" — which skeptics like Inhofe happily used as evidence that man-made climate change didn't really exist. So Inhofe's daughter, son-in-law and four grandchildren built a snowpacked igloo in Washington after one major storm, and stuck a sign on it: "Al Gore's New Home."

Fast-forward a year and a half. The weather in Washington is extreme again, but this time it's brutally hot, with the city in early July setting a record for the most consecutive 95 F plus days in a row — ten of them lined in a hyperthermic murderer's row. And the heat isn't confined to the nation's capital; over the past few weeks, just about every part of the country except for the Pacific Northwest has experienced unusually high temperatures. The national weather map looks like a U.S.-shaped burn mark. To environmentalists, the summer of 2012 is climate change in action — which led the green group 350.org to plan an ice-based stunt of their own. Activists were going to build an ice sculpture of the word "HOAX?" on July 7 in front of Capitol Hill, then let it melt in Washington's triple-digit heat.

In the end, 350.org decided not to go ahead with the ice-melting event. (The group's executive director Bill McKibben ultimately worried that the protest would be seen as insensitive given the very real human toll of the heat wave.) But HOAX in ice and Al Gore's igloo both underscore the way that the weather, more than anything else, drives our belief in climate change — and our uneven commitment to doing something about it. After the exceedingly mild winter just past and a warm spring that started early, one Yale University study found that 66% of Americans said they believe in climate change, up from 57% in January 2010 — right in the middle of that snowy winter. If we check in with the American public after another snowmageddon, expect the figure to fall again.

But it's a mistake to look at climate change only through the lens of public opinion polls, because what's happening right now in the U.S. really is out of the ordinary — assuming that ordinary still applies. More than 2 million acres have been burned in massive wildfires in much of the West, more than 110 million people were living under extreme heat advisories at the end of June and more than two-thirds of the country is experiencing drought. Last month, 3,215 daily high temperature records were set nationwide — and that's nothing compared to the 15,000 set in March. The 12 months ending in May were the warmest 12 continuous months on record in the U.S. "What we see now is what global warming really looks like," says Michael Oppenheimer, a climate expert and a professor at Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School. "The heat, the fires, these kinds of environmental disasters."

This isn't to say that climate change is directly causing the extreme heat that's been suffocating much of the U.S. this summer. Fingerprinting a single extreme weather event as evidence of glo

KPO

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 7:54 PM

We shouldn't focus too much on what the weather is doing. It can vary from unseasonably warm to freakishly cold, and may or may not have anything to do with climate change. We should focus on all the scientific data that we have - data that paints a clear picture of a warming planet with more extreme weather patterns globally.

It's not personal. It's just war.

ANTHONYT

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:40 PM

Hello,

I believe that polluting less and using renewable energy are items that can be sold on their own merits, using purely selfish motivators.

So if the problem is solveable, it can be solved even if people remain ignorant or apathetic about it.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

HERO

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 8:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I know: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter". S'arright, you'll die off with the rest of us. Because as far as I'm concerned, we've already passed "tipping point" and any efforts we or the rest of the world make will only manage to hold it at bay for a while.

The real problem here is that you've made the Sun God angry. Why just the other day there was a thunderstorm...thunder! Proof that we have offended the mighty one. The next day it was hot outside and did not rain. More proof. Then...(whisper) the sun rose in the east and set in the west...(shudders).

Somebody find a virgin, a goat, and a copy of 'Polytheism for Dummies'.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

OONJERAH

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:29 PM

Islands in the Sky

I believe the super rich will build habitats in space & underground.

The masses will be left to fry. Maybe rightly so, idiot sheep.

ETA: "Nothing lasts forever, but the earth and sky!"

=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:16 PM

Nope.

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

Check back w/ me in 50 years, and I'll give you an answer.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

WHOZIT

Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:16 PM

No I don't, but I believe in Bigfoot and UFO's

WISHIMAY

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 1:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

So if the problem is solveable, it can be solved even if people remain ignorant or apathetic about it.

--Anthony

Yeaaaah, we can save the planet...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2171602/Workmen-destroy-20-000
-rare-turtle-eggs-bulldozers-hit-beach.html

STORYMARK

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 2:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

CENTURY22

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 3:29 AM

Ask me again a hundred years from now.....if we have record heat waves EVERY YEAR.

...better worlds, all better worlds.

WISHIMAY

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:29 AM

My granny says she remembers the record heat of '36 here, that we just beat this year. She said they got so excited because the dog was eating grass and that that meant it was going to rain, but it never did and the crops didn't make it that year. Will my kid tell about the two weeks in 2012 we didn't bother to go outside when she's 80?? I wonder....

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:07 AM

NIKI< these people are so immersed in their ideology they couldn't agree that the sky is blue and the earth is round, even if they woke up to it every gorram day. And you'll never convince them. IRL there is only one answer for people like that; and maybe someday when earth becomes unlivable and people know who was at fault they'll get their due.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:58 AM

"LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!"

Yeah it does, actually. And then to put a schmeer of intelligence and authority on it, he quotes a fictional character. Hey, if I quote Spock will I be a genius?

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

OONJERAH

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:25 AM

I like to quote fictional characters.
They get some of the best lines.
And we, their audience, usually know if they are honest or wise.
Otherwise ... I'd just have to be the Authority mySelf!

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!

Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KWICKO

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!

Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Does it have anything to do with "laminations"?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 12:45 PM

I'm on the fence about the whole thing.....

I've posted here about how miserable I've been this summer so far without any A/C, and before that I got only about 10" of snow all damn winter and 8 straight 80 degree days in April... The summer before that was nearly as hot as this, but thankfully I was living with family that had A/C so I didn't really notice it.

The funny thing is though, there hasn't really been any other hot summers in the northern midwest since the drought of '88.

I'm not saying that I beleive we're not hurting the environment, in fact I do believe that to be true. All I'm saying is that the last 18 months is not evidence that the sky is falling. I don't believe that we're moments away from our own demise as a species via crazy weather any more than I believe that the Mayan calender ending in December of this year is the end of the world.

I sleep okay at night. Even though half of it has to do with my own financial responsibility, I have the lowest carbon footprint of anybody I know. I don't have A/C in the house, A/C in my 16 year old Toyota is busted, even with these gas prices my average monthly gas bill for my car is 30 bucks, I spent all winter in a 60 degree house and had very low gas bills to show for it, I use about 1,200 gallons of water a month on average, I'm growing my own tomatoes and plan to expand the garden next year, I bring my tweed sack to Aldi (made from recycled materials) and never purchase any of their plastic bags, on the rare occasions I head to a "real" grocery store for some sales, I always ask for paper bags, I recycle everything I can (it's AMAZING how long a bulk box of kitchen trash bags will last you if you do this), and my biggest contribution to the planet is that I haven't had any kids which are by far anyone's BIGGEST carbon footprint in the end.

In the future, when prices drop, I plan on getting a bad-ass solar panel system going. It's just too expensive to do now, but like all tech the price will go down and the efficiency will rise as time goes on. Just playing the waiting game here....

There's really nothing else I can do Niki. I can no more make my family or friends recycle than I can get them to be more responsible with their money. Sadly, that's the human condition in general.... If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If we really are trashing the future of mankind via environmental changes, nobody is going to really do anything about it until it IS too late.

I still think that "The Day After Tomorrow" is one of the best comedies I've ever seen though. I didn't even view it as a comedy through the whole thing until the punchline at the end. Anybody who survived was crossing the Mexican border to welcome and open arms :)

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 4:52 PM

Of course I know that, Sig; I didn't put it up for them. And of course I know that one year's weather--or ten!--doesn't mean much. But it's far more than that, as thinking people have learned:

Quote:
• Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

• The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

• The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

• Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

• Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

• An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1206_041206_global_war
ming.html

That last is what we've just endured, both the Winter (when crocks were suffering in Florida!) and this Summer.

I know full well that, even when the world has changed so dramatically that nobody with at least two brain cells to rub together can deny it, they'll still be in denial. It doesn't really matter in the end; no matter what we do at this point, as far as I'm concerned, it will only extend the period of survivable time here. Science can't do enough to reverse the effects even if the whole world got together and did everything imaginable, in my opinion. I've finally gotten off the fence on that one; I believe we've passed tipping point already. I'm just damned grateful I'm as old as I am and have no children. We pretty much deserve what's coming, sadly.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Children need mythology. It helps them make sense of the world - Temperance 'Bones' Brennan.

Belief requires faith. I am not a man of faith, but of facts and evidence.

LOL! The irony is so thick, it hurts!

Irony. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

GEEZER

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I know full well that, even when the world has changed so dramatically that nobody with at least two brain cells to rub together can deny it, they'll still be in denial.

Just out of curiosity, do you read the data the folks who don't agree with you provide, or do any un-biased research into the claims of both sides, or do you just deny the opposition's validity out of hand? I note that you only cite articles with a decided pro-climate change message.

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 6:19 PM

Nope. For years I was on the fence about climate change, and I read both sides extensively. The evidence has, to me, becomes so overwhelming over time that I have jumped off the fence and am convinced it not only exists, but will be the death of us. I post FACTS about what has led to the conclusion that global warming not only exists, but in my opinion has gone far enough past "tipping point" that we won't be able to reverse it. Why would I post things from those who don't believe that, given I believe what I do and my only hope is that we can stave off destruction as long as we can? The more people come to accept what's happening, the better our chances of at least lessening its influence for as long as possible. I hope that answers your question.

And yeah, Story, I grok it perfectly, I just don't expend much effort trying to communicate with or snark about Raptor most of the time (unless it's fun or there are facts that need refuting, for the benefit of others).

KPO

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:10 PM

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, do you read the data the folks who don't agree with you provide, or do any un-biased research into the claims of both sides

Why listen to anyone other than the scientists? Oh wait, I know - because they're stooges in the worldwide governmental conspiracy to invent climate change, and exercise more control over the economy and our personal freedoms, blah blah blah. We must also listen soberly to what the oil lobby has to say on the matter, to get a 'balanced' view.

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.

So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:32 PM

Quote:
don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 7:39 PM

There is that, too, KPO. For some time now, we've been inundated by ads for coal, natural gas and oil, and I have to change stations quickly to avoid throwing something at the TV. They are so obviously manipulative, yet I know a lot of ignorant people are buying into them.

Quote:
The Reality Campaign has released a new ad. They're the folks behind the widely-played ad that featured a foreman in a hard hat taking viewers on a tour of a non-existent clean coal facility.

In this new ad, a pitchman gives us the hard sell on a "Clean Coal Clean"-scented air freshener that works just as well as "clean coal."

This one, THIS ONE, really drives me up the wall--I see it several times a day at LEAST:

I want to scream at them, I really do. Ethanol. ETHANOL, of all things!

All this "natural gas" bullshit is sick...they talk about how wonderful natural gas is, and how it can be mined with less emissions than oil--and of course leaving out the damage fracking does...

Shell has a real slick cutie too:

We just demonstrated against Obama opening up waters around Alaska to drilling by Shell...may they rot in hell...

I'm just sick to death of the slick ads, the propaganda--and I don't know about you guys, but out here they are the MOST prolific ads we get on some channels, literally!

I got a kick out of this--which 99% of Americans won't know about either:

Quote:
Big Oil is using fake “Americans” to defend billions in tax subsidies. The American Petroleum Institute is running full-page ads in Politico and Roll Call that attack Congress for “new energy taxes”:
Quote:
Congress will likely consider new taxes on America’s oil and natural gas industry. These new energy taxes will produce wide-reaching effects, and ripple through our economy when America — and Americans — can least afford it.

These unprecedented taxes will serve to reduce investment in new energy supplies at a time when most Americans support developing our domestic oil and natural gas resources. That means less energy, thousands of American jobs being lost and further erosion of our energy security.

Our economy is in crisis, and we need to get the nation on the road to economic recovery. This is no time to burden Americans with new energy costs.
The target of this ad is the Obama administration’s effort to remove $36 billion in loopholes and subsidies for the oil industry. As it turns out, the “Americans” presented in the ad are stock photos from Getty Images.

Of course they are; why try to find real people when it's cheaper to just stick stock photography in there? "New taxes" my ass; the oil companies need subsidies like we need holes in our heads, but you'll have to pry them out of their "cold, dead hands" to take 'em away, and they've got the ad agencies to keep people from even knowing about it, yes siree!

Lies, lies and more lies...sigh...

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 8:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.

Unlike AlGore, I'll keep and open mind. Which is why I said come back in 50 years, then I'll give you an answer. It really may need more like 100 to 500 years, for a more accurate measure, but I'm sure that I REALLY won't care by then. So 50 seems like a fair number.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 9:02 PM

Hello Niki,

I have heard that the Insurance companies will be forced to use something like 70 percent of their revenue (I'm not sure of the exact figure) to provide their product to their customer. i.e. Health Care.

Do you think a similar rule should be enacted for energy providers?

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

OONJERAH

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:00 PM

I recommend "The Age of Stupid," starring Pete Postlethwaite.
"a man living alone in the devasted world of 2055, looking back at archive footage
from 2007 and asking: why didn't we stop climate change when we had the chance?"

In a few years, my grandsons may ask, "Why didn't we stop climate change when we had
the chance?" Will they remember their parents' complete, concrete denial of it?

To those here in adamant denial ... Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?
Or have you never lived in a big city where you can see the smog-air?

Signyn, remind me not to speak to the purposely deaf!!

ANTHONYT

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 10:18 PM

Quote:
Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?

Hello,

THIS is selling. This is the way to save everything.

Try also selling energy independence, so that no foreign powers can't hold us over a barrel and we no longer need to go to war to secure energy resources.

And whatever alternative energy costs, we can be 100% certain that it will cost less than fossil fuels in the long run.

This is all saleable, it's all common sense, and nobody has to buy Global Warming if they don't want to.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

STORYMARK

Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.

So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.

Did I bring up Gore? No?

Oh, right, Rappy desperately trying to distract. SOP. Boring.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

KWICKO

Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't.

What?? You say all the time that the debate is settled, proclaiming that AGW is nothing more than a hoax. Have you changed your views?

It's not personal. It's just war.

Unlike AlGore, I'll keep and open mind. Which is why I said come back in 50 years, then I'll give you an answer. It really may need more like 100 to 500 years, for a more accurate measure, but I'm sure that I REALLY won't care by then. So 50 seems like a fair number.

Let's use the same yardstick for measuring the impact of Islamic terrorism, shall we? After all, more people die every year in this country from peanut allergies than die from terrorist attacks.

So ask me again in 500 years if I'm worried about Muslims, and I'll get back to you then!

Sound fair?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

KWICKO

Thursday, July 12, 2012 1:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Oh, I know the word well, and understand it just fine. Others have grokked my meaning as well, though I fully expected you would not.

So I'm not a lap dog for AlGore, and don't blindly buy his bogus proclamation that ' the debate is settled '. It isn't. Doesn't mean I don't still adhere to the facts or the evidence.

You "adhere to the facts or the evidence"? Are you fucking kidding me?

You've provided neither on this topic. What "facts" are you adhering to?

Don't you mean you're adhering to your "claims", not your "facts"?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

PIRATENEWS

Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:37 AM

yeah 130 degrees F BELOW ZERO is global warmining.

Quote:
South Pole Station Sets New Record Low: -100.8°F

June 24, 2012

According to the University of Wisconsin, Madison, on June 11, 2012, the South Pole Station measured a new record low temperature.

The mercury dropped to -73.8°C (-100.8°F), breaking the previous minimum temperature record of -73.3°C (-99.9°F) set in 1966.

Must be because of global warming!

http://iceagenow.info/2012/06/south-pole-station-sets-record-low-100-8
%C2%B0f/

South Pole hits minus 100F mark earliest ever in the winter

By Peter Rejcek, Antarctic Sun Editor
Posted April 20, 2012
It’s no secret that the South Pole in Antarctica is one of the coldest places on Earth.

But this year it got really cold faster than ever, breaking a 30-year-old record for the earliest the temperature has dropped below minus 100 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 73.3 degrees Celsius).

The mercury officially bottomed out at minus 100.1F (minus 73.4C) on April 7 (local time), less than three weeks after the one sunset of the year that occurs at the bottom of the world. Previously, the earliest the temperature had broken the minus 100F barrier was on April 8, 1982 (local time), plummeting down to minus 103.4F (minus 75.2C).

“Climatology shows that it isn’t as atypical as one would think,” said South Pole Station senior meteorologist Dale Herschlag.

A screen shot from the South Pole Station weather scroll marking the dip below minus 100F.
Herschlag said that there have been eight instances where the station has reached the minus 100F milestone in the month of April, with another 13 “close calls,” when the temperature was just a degree or two shy of the mark.

On average, the station typically experiences the first minus 100F day by May. The coldest months are June and July, according to Herschlag. The coldest day ever recorded at the South Pole was on June 23, 1982, hitting minus 117F (minus 82.8C). The average annual temperature is about minus 58F (minus 50C). Climate records at the South Pole began in 1957.

“For the most part, the pattern that set up last week was typical for minus 100F readings,” Herschlag explained. “Typically, in order to get that cold, we would need grid easterly winds for a sustained period of 24-48 hours at a minimum.

“This pushes the pool of coldest continental air from the Antarctic plateau into the South Pole,” he added. “We had been predominantly in the upper 80s to around 90 below zero F for almost a week leading up to this event.”

In fact, just last September, another significant record fell when the peak wind speed was clocked at 58 miles per hour (mph), or 50 knots — the strongest ever at the South Pole. The previous record of 55mph (48kts) was set on Aug. 24, 1989. [See previous article — Windy days: Pole storms bring record-breaking gusts in September.]

The minus 100F barrier also marks the time when Polies wintering over get an opportunity to join the exclusive 300 Club. Membership involves sweating it out in a sauna at 200F for as long as possible and then making a quick trip to the geographic South Pole — all while wearing not much more than a pair of boots.

Herschlag said about a dozen of the 50 winter-overs joined the club for the couple of hours while the temperature fluctuated at the membership level.

http://antarcticsun.usap.gov/features/contenthandler.cfm?id=2643

-95 degrees F Coldest Temperature Ever In The Northern Hemisphere
http://www.real-science.com/coldest-temperature-ever-recorded-in-the-n
orthern-hemisphere-forecast-for-wednesday

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Did I bring up Gore? No?

No, I did. Because AlGore is not only the biggest carnival barker on this subject, he's set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam. And oh yeah, he's one of the biggest HYPOCRITES in the world too, doing exactly what he tells others NOT to do.

Quote:

Oh, right, Rappy desperately trying to distract. SOP. Boring.

And yet, you keep replying. Huh.

And also...

Tree-rings prove climate was WARMER in Roman and Medieval times than it is now - and world has been cooling for 2,000 years
Tree ring study gives first accurate climate reading back to 138BC
World has been slowly cooling for 2,000 years
World was warmer in Roman and Medieval times than it is now
Study of semi-fossilised trees in Finland
By Rob Waugh

PUBLISHED: 07:22 EST, 11 July 2012 | UPDATED: 07:22 EST, 11 July 2012

Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought - with measurements dating back to 138BC Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought - and the earth has been slowly COOLING for 2,000 years.

Measurements stretching back to 138BC prove that the Earth is slowly cooling due to changes in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

The finding may force scientists to rethink current theories of the impact of global warming. It is the first time that researchers have been able to accurately measure trends in global temperature over the last two millennia.

Over that time, the world has been getting cooler - and previous estimates, used as the basis for current climate science, are wrong. Their findings demonstrate that this trend involves a cooling of -0.3°C per millennium due to gradual changes to the position of the sun and an increase in the distance between the Earth and the sun.

‘This figure we calculated may not seem particularly significant,’ says Esper, ‘however, it is also not negligible when compared to global warming, which up to now has been less than 1°C. 'Our results suggest that the large-scale climate reconstruction shown by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) likely underestimate this long-term cooling trend over the past few millennia.’

The finding was based on semi-fossilised tree rings found in Finnish lapland. Professor Dr. Jan Esper's group at the Institute of Geography at JGU used tree-ring density measurements from sub-fossil pine trees originating from Finnish Lapland to produce a reconstruction reaching back to 138 BC.

In so doing, the researchers have been able for the first time to precisely demonstrate that the long-term trend over the past two millennia has been towards climatic cooling.

‘We found that previous estimates of historical temperatures during the Roman era and the Middle Ages were too low,’ says Esper. ‘Such findings are also significant with regard to climate policy, as they will influence the way today's climate changes are seen in context of historical warm periods.’

The annual growth rings in trees are the most important witnesses over the past 1,000 to 2,000 years as they indicate how warm and cool past climate conditions were.

The density measurements correlate closely with the summer temperatures in this area on the edge of the Nordic taiga; the researchers were thus able to create a temperature reconstruction of unprecedented quality.

The reconstruction provides a high-resolution representation of temperature patterns in the Roman and Medieval Warm periods, but also shows the cold phases that occurred during the Migration Period and the later Little Ice Age.

In addition to the cold and warm phases, the new climate curve also exhibits a phenomenon that was not expected in this form.

For the first time, researchers have now been able to use the data derived from tree-rings to precisely calculate a much longer-term cooling trend that has been playing out over the past

AURAPTOR

Thursday, July 12, 2012 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Let's use the same yardstick for measuring the impact of Islamic terrorism, shall we? After all, more people die every year in this country from peanut allergies than die from terrorist attacks.

So ask me again in 500 years if I'm worried about Muslims, and I'll get back to you then!

Sound fair?

Don't forget to bring your prayer rug.

And classic non sequitur, with the peanut allergies bit. I guess you're cool with an oppressive religious cult, controlling your every thought, as long as you're still alive, huh?

Better dead than Islam-ed.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:23 PM

Link, rappy?

Quote:
Rings in fossilised pine trees have proven that the world was much warmer than previously thought

It seems to me that this study gives us an insight into the temperature record of Finland, NOT the whole world. Think about it rappy: these fossilised pine trees were from one region of Finland; can we be certain that they give us accurate temperature records for Argentina, Japan, Liberia?

It's well known that in Medieval times the temperature was very warm in some parts of the world - namely Northern Europe and North America - but globally temperatures were cooler.

Some further reading: http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

ETA: It's funny, the last time I debated a climate skeptic he was completely dismissive of tree rings as a reliable proxy for temperature. There's no orthodoxy in climate skepticism it seems...

It's not personal. It's just war.

ANTHONYT

Thursday, July 12, 2012 2:55 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html

Hello KPO,

I noticed you quoted some material looking for a source.

I did a search and got a hit that seems fairly close to what you were looking for.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 12, 2012 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
I believe that polluting less and using renewable energy are items that can be sold on their own merits, using purely selfish motivators.

They could indeed.
*IF*, that is what these debates were actually ABOUT.
And one side, the other, or even sometimes both - most of the time that ain't the case.

-Frem

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, July 13, 2012 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

I recommend "The Age of Stupid," starring Pete Postlethwaite.
"a man living alone in the devasted world of 2055, looking back at archive footage
from 2007 and asking: why didn't we stop climate change when we had the chance?"

In a few years, my grandsons may ask, "Why didn't we stop climate change when we had
the chance?" Will they remember their parents' complete, concrete denial of it?

To those here in adamant denial ... Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?
Or have you never lived in a big city where you can see the smog-air?

Signyn, remind me not to speak to the purposely deaf!!

This is a great idea for a movie. It's movies like this that I've seen in the last 20 years, much of them low-budget late-night Showtime movies by studios like Lionsgate before they became more mainstream. I'm sure a lot of them have somehow shaped some of my recycling habits.

Even though I know that it's just a politically motivated movie in my old and cynical age, I do realize that this will have as profound an impact on the children of today, so it does have that going for it.

The problem O, is that the TECH prices NEVER seem to reach a "sweet-spot". I've been waiting 7 years for solar tech to become cheap like computers or blu-ray or video games. It never happens though, because nobody is buying them....

When Pete Postlethwaite asks "Why didn't we save ourselves when we had the chance?", my answer to that VERY important question is because in a world of 6.6 billion people, only 200,000 people could afford to "save" us.

I suggest MASSIVE federal rebates on solar and wind tech when it comes to non-for-profit and residential usage. In reverse, I also suggest that any "surplus energies" gained by the "grid" by people using these techs not be refunded, but go to pay for the programs to allow more people who would never be able to buy this tech at the price install their own.

Eventually, 80% of Americans would have enough solar power to take care of half of their daily needs with little cost to them, and I think that with the surplus power, the government could break even in a few years. The tech would go way down in price since there would be so many buyers.

In my mind this is the ONLY way for us to save ourselves.

If you don't give people financial incentive today to save the world, especially when it costs more than most Americans can afford to live day to day, they they aren't going to do it on their own.

I'd LOVE to have solar panels installed (and better yet, learn how to install them myself), but I still need 1,200 bucks to shell out on gutters the previous owners scrapped, and a generator for the sump pump if the electric fails. Kind of hard to do on roughly 380 dollars every two weeks after taxes......

NIKI2

Friday, July 13, 2012 1:40 PM

Anthony, I would have no problem with what you suggested; I'd love to see it enacted for ALL today's energy producers, actually. I'm assuming "profit" is part of the 80%, given insurance companies are for-profit entities; if not, they wouldn't exist.

The figure, by the way, is 80%; anything above that is to be REBATED to the customers. I'd be quite happy with that being required of energy companies; I have little doubt new alternative-energy companies put at least that much into their costs (tho' not existing oil or gas companies, by far!), but I'd be happier to see any extra put toward further development of VIABLE alternative-energies, which leaves out ethanol, which I think is as poorly-understood as "clean coal" (which isn't) or how the "environment is protected" by fracking.

Are there valid reasons that wouldn't work for energy companies?

And yes, it would be nice if Raptor offered cites for the material he puts up, but nobody's holding their breath for that, are they?

The fact that the argument against climate change is also made only for Finland seems rather meaningless when considering the entire globe; something global might have more meaning.

NIKI2

Friday, July 13, 2012 2:50 PM

Further on the subject:

Quote:
Farmers suffer as soaring temperatures worsen drought in Midwest

A severe drought is spreading across the Midwest this summer, resulting in some of the worst conditions in decades and leaving more than a thousand counties designated as natural disaster areas, authorities said.

Farmers in the region are suffering, with pastures for livestock and fields of crops becoming increasingly parched during June, according to the National Climatic Data Center. Many areas in the southern Midwest are reporting the poorest conditions for June since 1988.

The farmers' difficulties come amid a record-setting level of hot, dry weather across the nation

As of Tuesday, about 61% of the contiguous United States (excluding Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico) was experiencing drought conditions, the highest percentage in the 12-year record of the U.S. Drought Monitor.

The past 12 months have been the warmest the United States has experienced since records began in 1895, the climatic data center said.

You deniers can spare yourselves the effort, I'll do it for you: "It's hot in Summer, cold in Winter; so what?" Hotter than anything since 1895...yup, that's perfectly normal.

Quote:
A map of significant climate events for the United States in June looks almost apocalyptic: hellish heat, ferocious fires and severe storms leaving people injured, homeless and even dead.

That followed a warm winter and early season droughts. And on Tuesday, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) released a report calling 2011 a year of extreme weather.

"As we change the climate, we're shifting the odds for extreme weather," Chris Field, founding director of the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology, said. It's sort of like upping your chances of a car accident if you're speeding. The four classes of extremes -- high heat, heavy precipitation and floods, duration and intensity of droughts and extremes related to higher sea levels -- have changed in the last 50 years, Field said.

"When you've got a planet that's nearest warmest levels on record, that doesn't mean every part of the world is going to be the warmest ever," said Jeff Masters, director of meteorology for Weather Underground.

"The U.S. has been unlucky enough to be in that sort of pattern," he said. "Increasingly, we are loading the dice towards these very damaging kinds of extremes."

In 2011, two back-to-back La Niñas, each characterized by cooler-than-average water temperatures in the eastern Pacific, affected significant weather events -- including droughts in the southern United States and northern Mexico and in east Africa.

There is debate over how climate change affects such weather patterns but the NOAA-led "state of the climate" report said La Niña-related heat waves are now 20 times more likely to occur than 50 years ago.

Scientists also analyzed the United Kingdom's very warm November 2011 and a very cold December 2010. They said that cold Decembers are now half as likely to occur versus 50 years ago, whereas warm Novembers are now 62 times more likely.

This year, the United States has already lived through four named storms -- two in May and two in June. The last was Tropical Storm Debby, which flooded Florida.

The warmer waters can lead to warmer temperatures on land, Downs said. So can extended drought.

"The biggest thing of this year is the cumulative effect of the last two seasons. Some parts of the United States have been under drought conditions for the past two years," he said, and did not have much rain in April and May. Less solar energy is absorbed by hot, parched land.

"The drought amplifies temperatures -- 90 becomes 100. 100 becomes 105."

Americans and others will likely be

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, July 13, 2012 2:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:everything Nikki said...

If we were this age in 1988, knowing all that we did now.......

We'd be saying all the same things....

SIGNYM

Friday, July 13, 2012 4:12 PM

Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Friday, July 13, 2012 4:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.

So I have to ask Signy, just what exactly did you contribute to society for your healthy 20% gain?

ANTHONYT

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:01 PM

Hello,

Perhaps it is the Ron Paul principle of wanting a thing reformed, but also taking the money that's out there to be had until the reform happens.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

KPO

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:08 PM

Quote:
set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam.

Global scam, lol. Your open minded-ness on this issue didn't last very long, AU.

It's not personal. It's just war.

ANTHONYT

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:17 PM

Hello,

Open mindedness has a half-life shorter than the most radioactive compounds.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

KPO

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html

Interesting, that's a different article to the one Rappy posted... But I did a google search and found someone posting the same article as Rappy but citing the same Daily Mail link that you posted... ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2928123-What-will-t
he-Cult-of-Global-Warming-do-now).

Did the Daily Mail pull its own article and replace it? Out of embarrassment maybe?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:22 PM

Niki, thanx for posting the drought map from CNN.com. I was gonna post it here myself, but couldn't work out the correct link.

It MAY NOT PROVE global Warming, but it certainly is strong evidence. A drought is a prolonged condition or trend of hotter, dryer weather. Not just a few days or even weeks of a hot spell of some sort. And a bunch of the country is having one- most of the West, the southern half of the Rockies and Great Plains, part of the Old South.

If it continues, thru this year's growing season,and into next year's, that certainly could be proof of GW, as well as having a severe economic effect in its own right.

ANTHONYT

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2171973/Tree-ring-study
-proves-climate-WARMER-Roman-Medieval-times-modern-industrial-age.html

Interesting, that's a different article to the one Rappy posted... But I did a google search and found someone posting the same article as Rappy but citing the same Daily Mail link that you posted... ( http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2928123-What-will-t
he-Cult-of-Global-Warming-do-now).

Did the Daily Mail pull its own article and replace it? Out of embarrassment maybe?

It's not personal. It's just war.

Hello,

Possibly. The article has been revised at least once.

Or possibly more than one venue reported on similar data.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

KPO

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:32 PM

Quote:
Open mindedness has a half-life shorter than the most radioactive compounds.

That's fine, so long as people are honest about it. Raptor is exhibiting a certain amount of 'fluidity' in his views in this thread.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Friday, July 13, 2012 5:39 PM

Quote:
Or possibly more than one venue reported on similar data.

The Auraptor on the other website posted an article that was word for word the same as our Auraptor, and linked to the same (very different) Daily Mail article that you posted...

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:14 AM

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Saturday, July 14, 2012 1:02 AM

Quote:
There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Quote? Who were these government-funded scientists, and what exactly did they say that was comparable in stupidity to what you posted?

It's not personal. It's just war.

STORYMARK

Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

STORYMARK

Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam.

Global scam, lol. Your open minded-ness on this issue didn't last very long, AU.

It's not personal. It's just war.

One must actually posses a mind in order for it to be open.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 3:54 AM

Quote:
So I have to ask Signy, just what exactly did you contribute to society for your healthy 20% gain?

Absolutely nothing. Just like Romney, Ayn Rand, and the other fine examples that rappy and you hold up!

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:01 AM

Do as I say, not as I do. I got it.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:11 AM

Quote:
Do as I say, not as I do. I got it.

Oh, so now you're telling me there's something wrong with making money???

'Cause in the magic of the free market, I'm sure I created a couple of jobs somewhere by shoving money around from one place to another and keeping some for myself! At least, so sayeth the Wall-Streeters, bankers, and venture capitalists.

I mean, c'mon, you must not believe in your own spiel, because according to you-all I just did a good thing! Aren't you pleased that I did what you've been advocating all along, and WOULD have done if only you'd been smart enough?

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, so now you're telling me there's something wrong with making money???

'Cause in the magic of the free market, I'm sure I created a couple of jobs somewhere by shoving money around from one place to another and keeping some for myself! At least, so sayeth the Wall-Streeters, bankers, and venture capitalists.

I mean, c'mon, you must not believe in your own spiel, because according to you-all I just did a good thing! Aren't you pleased that I did what you've been advocating all along, and WOULD have done if only you'd been smart enough?

Oh I am plenty smart, thank-you very much. Smart enough to not decry stock speculators as leeches on society for doing the same thing. But I guess it is somehow different when you do it because you are, after all, so smart.

WISHIMAY

Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:
Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?

Hello,

THIS is selling. This is the way to save everything.

Try also selling energy independence, so that no foreign powers can't hold us over a barrel and we no longer need to go to war to secure energy resources.

And whatever alternative energy costs, we can be 100% certain that it will cost less than fossil fuels in the long run.

This is all saleable, it's all common sense, and nobody has to buy Global Warming if they don't want to.

--Anthony

Y'all get sooooo wrapped up in fighting for a side ya can't see the forest for the trees...

30% of the population of Detroit CAN'T EVEN READ. You know what they want??? They want cheaper drugs, and probably legal prostitution.
Maybe half of the babies in that Hospitial in Tennesee born addicted....
You think their parents give a good goddamn about cleaner air or water??OR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE??
How much of our population is in jail at any given time??
Know what they care about??
GETTING OUT OF JAIL. So they can be dumassess and do it again as sooon as possible.
You people even have a clue what any of the riots were about for the last year or so?? THOSE PEOPLE CARED ABOUT MONEY AND FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY.

One out of every four people has a serious mental disorder.
THEY CARE ABOUT NOT GIVING IN TO THE VOICES THAT TELL THEM TO KILL THEIR UPPITY ASS NEIGHBOR WHO CARES MORE ABOUT A ROCK THAT WAS DOOMED FROM THE MOMENT WE LANDED ON IT, THAN A PERSON IN THEIR OWN FRONT YARD.

For every one of you who has done something to try to help, there are hundred schmucks who'd burn down a forest to make one US dollar.

Sit and argue about it in an obscure corner of the internet....That'll show 'em.

I don't doubt that we are royally fucking up the planet.
I do doubt y'alls grasp of the inability to do anything about it.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Both funny and sad to watch as you harshly react to your holy ox being gored.

There is no Santa Clause either. Hate to break the news to ya, kid.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NIKI2

Saturday, July 14, 2012 3:53 PM

NewOld, I just found your post. Copying anything that isn't interactive or not on YouTube is easy. Just right-click on the item, copy the URL and paste it. Unless it's something like a .png, which will only show up as its URL. Just FYI.

KPO, what "other website"? I'm assuming it's not the other version of FFF, because I believe everything shows up in both...did you mean "other forum", or is there some other website Raptor's on that you're on too? Just curious is all.

Story, there is no Rappy "logic", as we all know. He just posts whatever comes into his head (or he's swallowed from FauxNews, etc.) that snarks against whatever anyone else posts...if they're liberal, that is.

Uh, Wish:

Quote:
I do doubt y'alls grasp of the inability to do anything about it.

I do now. Anything we do merely staves off the inevitable, I realize now. It would take the entire world working together to even stave it off for very long, but hopefully even if that happened (which it won't), they wouldn't stave it off long enough to find another planet we can fuck up.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:15 PM

BIGDAMN, so it's not what I "did" that bothers you, it's my "motivation"?
Yeah, whatever.

BTW- if you're so smart, how rich ARE you, exactly?

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:24 PM

NIKI et al... the problem isn't "people". Worldwide, most people are aware of the problem and want to do something about it. The problem is that any progress made by a hundred million "people" can be UNDONE by just a few in power.... the President of the USA, some assholes in Congress, the Chinese central committee, or some misguided dictator in Africa or the ME, and the bankers and corporatists who enable them. It is THOSE people... the less than 0.01% who control entire nations and/or the world through dint of guns, money, and media... who are causing the problem.

Focus.

Stop THOSE people, and the problem will be solved.

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BIGDAMN, so it's not what I "did" that bothers you, it's my "motivation"?
Yeah, whatever.

Damn right it's your motivation. How can you continually rail against the capitalists when you are profiting from the fact that some people will no longer be able to afford food? How do you justify this obviously glaring double standard?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BTW- if you're so smart, how rich ARE you, exactly?

What a perfectly capitalistic question that is Signy. Welcome to the "dark side", Ms. Rand would be proud.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 7:08 PM

BIGDAMN, your criticism seems somewhat schizophrenic. If you came to me and said Yanno what? I've found there is actually more money to be made in cooperation/ green energy/ sustainable development/ peaceful resolution than conflict/ fossil fuels/ unsustainable development/ war... I don't believe in it but, damn, it "works" in MY world I'd say GREAT! Hop on board! Glad to have you!.

Why the anger? Don't like being hoist on your own petard? You must not like your petard very much, then.

Quote:
How can you continually rail against the capitalists when you are profiting from the fact that some people will no longer be able to afford food?

And if I refuse to profit, will that make food more affordable for everyone? Starvation will only end when food is produced to feed people, NOT to make a profit. The rules of the game would need to be changed. Individual action is often ineffective. As the saying goes, Hitler would never have been stopped by dumpster-diving.

I'm not a liberal, as you might like to pigeonhole anyone to your left. I try to be a realist, and - as a realist- I realize I have to live by YOUR rules, not by the rules I would like to see implemented. Unlike some ppl here I don't live in my head, yanno? I'm ALWAYS banging my ideas against the real world. This investment of mine was an experiment, and a successful one. It showed me that I know what's happening well enough to predict the future.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 7:33 PM

BTW- NIKI< if you have any influence at all in the Occupy movement, can you bring up the point that it HAS to get political?

I know politics is a dirty word, but the world cannot be changed by.. or run on... participatory democracy and consensus-building. It's very nice and homelike and welcoming to all members, but it is ineffective and winds up as a "feel-good" process.

STORYMARK

Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Both funny and sad to watch as you harshly react to your holy ox being gored.

There is no Santa Clause either. Hate to break the news to ya, kid.

I react harshly to idiots who insist their belief trump science, yes. Good catch.

And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

You even make the zealots look mellow sometimes.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:28 PM

Quote:
And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

Indeed. Rappy is utterly confused, not only about the nature of reality (in his view, no such thing exists) but also about the nature of science.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, July 15, 2012 3:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.

Careful with that Signy....

Good for you for putting your money where your mouth is, but if I had a lot invested I'd do research on previous decades and the ebbs and flows. Your logic seems foolproof, that's for sure, but there are just too many variables out there. If the market were to be "logical" than we'd have seen steady gains on gold, silver and agricultural products perpetually. The only bumps in your system then would be the good weather years where more food is made than is needed, but they'll always be evened out by the bad weather years. To this day, I've never read an adiquite explanation to the fluxuation of gas prices, and why gas at the pump is still so damn expensive even though it's only trading for 85 bucks a barrel. Gas drives everything, including produce transport to the stores. If proles like us can't even figure out that variable, the rest is a crap shoot.

I'm glad you're winning now.

My advice would be to take your winnings out now and put them somewhere else you feel is undervalued. Just like the housing market, and anything else that has seen great gains, there will eventually be a correction.

Added to that, never "gamble" with money in the market that you will need in the next year to survive, and never sell when you're down, unless you KNOW for a fact that the stock is dead. Following the first rule will allow you to ride out the storm of the downturns.

In just over 2 years I had turned 13k into 15.6k in my Roth IRA. I thought I was the Wall Street Kid.... So when the DOW dropped from around 15k down to 12k, I thought it would be a good time to invest in a name brand like GE. It topped out at about 42 bucks a share and I figured I was getting a bargain at 27 bucks a share. I also spent just about as much on US Bankcorp, which was giving a 5.25% dividend when savings accounts were giving less than 1%. Shortly after about 8k in those 2 purchases, the bottom fell out and I saw my 13k (plus 2.6k) turn into just over 6k in about 8 months. (This was money I'd already paid taxes on and didn't have a company match on either).

I rode it out. I didn't panic sell because I didn't need the money at the time. By the time I sold both of those stocks, they weren't worth as much as I'd paid for them, but they recovered greatly. My other big winners on the side lines helped push my final outcome to 13.2k. 200 bucks interest on 13k isn't too shabby for 4 years in this climate.

I got lucky.....

I'm done with the market. The only way I'm getting back in is if I ever get a good job with a 50-100% match 401k. That's it....

Mark Cuban said don't play the market. There are tons of people who went to school to learn how to read the market better than you ever will. First pay down your debts. After that, buy things on sale and in bulk and stock up. If you've done all of that and have a little extra money, look at investing in the market as playing the slots.

SIGNYM

Sunday, July 15, 2012 4:19 AM

Hey 6IX, thanx for the advice. I'm gonna sell post-haste; the price of agricultural commodities not only reflects the scarcity of the goods but the amount of money "out there" to buy it. So in tough (deflationary) times, commodities can go down even if ppl are starving.

I have a long, storied history with the stock market! Some ups, some downs, but for all the drama I could have put my $$$ in the bank and come out even. I know peeps at work who make $$$ in stocks, but they watch the market every gorram day, and they trade in puts and calls. I just don't have that kind of time with a disabled daughter, sick hubby, and demanding full-time job.

I read an interesting paper once; it had to do with "what KINDS of investors get the best returns?" I know there are investors who buy stocks for value, other who buy stocks for earnings, others who buy and sell stocks on very technical indicators. I don't recall what kinds of investors they were called, but what I DO remember is that they said the "macroeconomic investor" usually does better. I was very happy to read that because macroeconomics is a hobby of mine.

But I don't invest ALL of our savings, we have money is some very conservative investments (annuities, government paper, insured accounts... that kind of stuff) and I have some "play money". I tend to invest by category (precious metals, real estate, commodities, muni-bonds, foreign currency, foreign bonds, annuities, NOT equities! ) and usually expect to make money in 1-15 years. I guess I'm a buy-and-hold kind of gal... too busy to do otherwise! In the meantime, hubby and I work hard at responsible but not exceptionally well-paid positions, scrimp and save (we live on less than one paycheck and bank the rest), and have managed to put together a retirement for us and a future income for our daughter which we HOPE will last for the rest of her life.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, July 15, 2012 4:59 AM

Glad to hear that you've weathered it money-problems-in-general better than most have Signy.

I LOVED economics classes in College before I dropped out. Macro and Micro were two of my easiest non-computer courses because I just ate up all the info without any problems. (Math real people can use, as opposed to Algebra and Trig and Calculus)

No matter where you put the money, whether it be stocks, the bank, the real-estate market, or a meth-addiction ;), it's all about what the ROI.

I shouldn't say that I'll NEVER play the stocks again, because it was fun when I was making good money and the economy was better. It was like playing Texas Hold'em online!

It's just that I did a cross-over example of what I suggested to you. I took EVERYTHING out of stocks and put it into a severely undervalued house for the neighborhood. It's a GREAT neighborhood. Sure, it still needs some work after nearly a year, but except for the gutters I need to install it's all cosmetic. The mold I removed in the first month automatically raised the value nearly 30k, no matter what I did after that. In our germiphobe world we live in, it takes a REAL SMOKER to go in with a hazmat suit in 95% temps and turn a bad situation like that around.

I figure it would cost me about 1.2k a month to rent this place as is, and I'm not paying that, so add another $12k to money made since I've been here just for that.

Never stay with any investment too long that you have to endure a correction that might not pick up again for a long time. If you can pick up a hidden gem like this house was at absolute and verifiable rock bottom prices, you can stall for a while and take a breath because if any external forces made this investment worth less a year from now it means we're ALL up the creek without a paddle.

I wish you continued luck, and I hope that you never get greedy with it.

You're playing the "smart man's lotto".

You're in the saddle

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 4:06 AM

And, in other news of global warming causing food insecurity.....

Migrating pollock could endanger Alaskan fishery, international relations

Quote:
Showing a distinct lack of American patriotism, Alaskan pollock are reacting to climate-changed warmer waters by swimming northward into Russian territory — potentially endangering both the U.S.’s billion-dollar pollock industry and U.S.-Russia relations. Climate-related pollock migration “will be a food security issue and has an enormous potential for political upheaval,” warns Andrew Rosenberg, former deputy director of the National Marine Fisheries Service. Salmon, squid, and mackerel are also moving northward, but the certified-sustainable pollock fishery is arguably of most concern. Estimates hold that anywhere between 10 and 30 percent of Alaskan pollock now rear their heads in Russian territory. If Russians schlep up 20 percent of the available catch, “do we eat it and reduce our catches to manage conservatively?” frets marine-policy professor Keith Criddle. “If we get to the position where Russians are taking 50 percent of the catch, what are we going to do?”

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:11 AM

For a quick look at drought, I go to the USDA drought monitor as mirrored by the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Just google "drought monitor" and you'll get the web site.

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

OONJERAH

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 5:45 AM

I am sure the pollock have no reason to migrate into Russian waters on their own.
Crazy tree-huggers gotta be herding them up there to perpetrate the GW hoax.

(^ A comment too lunatic to qualify as sarcasm.)

As for Kiki's drought map: Nevada & Southern California look normal to me.
But with more than half of the remaining USA in drought ... there could be trouble!

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark

I react harshly to idiots who insist their belief trump science, yes. Good catch.

Oh, the irony.

Quote:

And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

You even make the zealots look mellow sometimes.

See, here's the gig. If I believe YOU, and ignore real science, then where's that lead me? Higher taxes, regulation piled on top of regulation, less freedom, govt intervention, redistribution of wealth, and for what ? Virtually zero impact on the climate, no matter what man does.

So, even if your fairy tale WERE true, there's absolutely nothing of any significance that we can DO about it ! All our carbon credits, forced compliance, govt regulations and taxes... won't change a gorram thing when it comes to the climate. Not now, not next year, not in 100 years. So, if YOUR way isn't going to solve the imaginary crisis, and even the climate gurus who fully believe this stuff they're shoveling admit to that much, then what's the gorram point ???

There is none. Just more 'meddling', by the Imperial Federal Alliance, who has duped you and others into buying this ' better worlds' hokum.

Useful idiots.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:10 PM

Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science

What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 6:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science

What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

I noticed you didn't address the points I was making, about how even IF you're right, and man-made global warming IS real, then there's still nothing we can do that'll effectively change much of anything.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 7:28 PM

And I notice you completely ignored my question put directly to you.

I don't have the time or inclination to refute ALL the wrong-headed wingnut things you post Auraptor. But since you specifically ask on this point:

Quote:
even IF you're right, and man-made global warming IS real, then there's still nothing we can do that'll effectively change much of anything.

It's not that complicated. Man-made CO2 is the driver of current climate change. Reduce those emissions, and climate change will be alleviated - to the extent that emissions are reduced. We may not be able to avert climate change completely, but that doesn't mean we should shrug our shoulders and not even try to avert the worst of it.

And what reason have you to suppose that carbon credits (and all other measures) can do nothing to curb emissions? Put a price on carbon and you can bet businesses will factor that in, and change their behaviour accordingly. Also you are assuming that technological innovation cannot possibly play any role in solving the problem in the future. Should we give up on research into new technologies, green technologies, carbon-capture technologies etc - assuming that all those technologies will also have no effect at solving the problem?

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:17 PM

There's every bit as much compelling evidence that suggests c02 isn't the driver, but may be the RESULT of high temps.

And then there's the claim that , no matter what we do , the amount of impact we can have on undoing what we (allegedly ) have done will amount to a fraction of a degree, in maybe 100 years. Sorry, but spending trillions of dollars for next to no real tangible affect on ANYTHING isn't very wise, imo. Seems we could put that $ to better use, like farming, education, and looking to build better population centers, more inland, while making use of the available resources more wisely.

Quote:
I don't have the time or inclination to refute ALL the wrong-headed wingnut things you post Auraptor

Well then, if you've dismissed my point of view, out of hand, what ever facts, evidence, etc... that I bring to the discussion on the basis that it's " wrong headed " , I kinda fail to see the point of even trying to converse here.

I say let the free market find what ever solutions, if any , are needed. You can't effectively mandate this sort of stuff, from the top down.

And as for your question(s), why should I even bother, if you don't even have the time OR inclination to refute my 'wing-nut' views ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:33 PM

Sig: I have no influence with Occupy, I'm only with OccupyMarin. Most Occupy groups are regional and deal with regional issues now, I think it's mostly OWS that's dealing with national issues. But in California, we recognize the problem and are doing a LOT about sustainable energy sources. But we stand pretty much alone compared to the rest of the country, and the millions of Raptors out there for whom it's a matter of "pry the oil and gas from my cold, dead hands". OUR legislators have kept drilling off our coast, put in place fuel ameliorations which increase our cost at the pump, and are working hard on wind, solar, etc., and here in Marin there's an organization you can get your energy from which is produced entirely "greenly". We would be part of it, but can't afford it until they bring the cost down. Solar is everywhere around here; even the sanitary district's reclamation machines out at the Las Gallinas Wildlife Ponds where I sulky with my dogs is run by SOLAR only. Our sanitation district does curbside pickup of all recyclables, and now compostables as well, but people have to CHOOSE to divide things up into those bins.

It IS people, the millions like Raptor as well as the other millions who, whatever they believe, are too lazy to separate their trash or do anything else to lessen their footprint. Yes, everything you said, but if enough PEOPLE stood up, the government would follow. Until then, governments won't listen, and energy companies are preparing, but won't put much money into it until/unless it becomes a real issue--until then, they've got TONS to spend and spend it on advertising how wonderful "clean coal" (HOW I hate that!), natural gas, etc., are and how we need to lower the cost of gas, drill more, yada yada to keep from buying "foreign oil"--which DOES NOT EXIST. Remember folks, ALL oil is sold on the international market, so even what we produce here goes wherever whoever buys it is (sorry, lousey English).

Meanwhile, all we can do is vote in the right people, and we have and will. Boxer represents our environmental interests really well and will continue to; our Congresswoman is retiring and the new one will be just as good where the environment is concerned (Occupy's chosen candidate lost by a hair, but the other Dem is also an environmental guy, and he'll beat the pants off the Republican they put up, Republicans keep their affiliations mostly on the Q.T. here in Marin). They redistricted, so OUR Congressperson will represent the entire No. Ca. Coast, so I guarantee everything will be done right environmentally here, we'll protect that much. But how much can we do?? We're fighting a damned big machine, and I wouldn't know where to start.

Making our sanitary district entirely solar, by the way, was paid for by the stimulus--that should piss the hell out of some here. Everywhere WE look, the stimulus is at work on our infrastructure...too bad there wasn't more of it and it wasn't used wisely--like on INFRASTRUCTURE--which would have created jobs, and which ignoring it will cause it to be coming down on our heads any day now...hell, it already IS, bridges are falling down, schools don't have enough desks and some have horrible conditions, etc. We haven't done SHIT about infrastructure in ages...but I won't get started on THAT!

As to, by the way, progress requiring people, in the REST of the world both the people and the governments of many countries have recognized the danger and ARE doing something about it...it's mostly America whose government has its head in the sand and its pockets lined by Big Oil.

NIKI2

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:35 PM

Damned computer

KPO

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:37 PM

Quote:
And as for your question(s), why should I even bother, if you don't even have the time OR inclination to refute my 'wing-nut' views ?

I don't have time to refute ALL of the wrong, far-right things you post. You post a lot of it. But I specifically replied to one instance of it when you asked. I'm an obliging guy.

Quote:
I say let the free market find what ever solutions, if any , are needed. You can't effectively mandate this sort of stuff, from the top down.

Ah, the free market will sort out everything. Ok. Let's take another example of man's actions hurting the environment: overfishing. There's no way to mandate any kind of regulation to stop overfishing? Government should just throw its hands up and rely on the free market to sort it out? The result - disaster. And your 'solution' for climate change is just the same.

Quote:
Well then, if you've dismissed my point of view, out of hand, what ever facts, evidence etc... that I bring to the discussion

Exactly what facts, or evidence was in your post? I listen to facts/evidence. I ignore partisan opinion-filled rants. Nevertheless I answered it because you asked.

Quote:
And then there's the claim that , no matter what we do , the amount of impact we can have on undoing what we (allegedly ) have done will amount to a fraction of a degree, in maybe 100 years. Sorry, but spending trillions of dollars for next to no real tangible affect

You're just repeating the same point as before, while providing nothing new to back it up (not that you backed it up at all in the first place). I've already explained how this view makes no sense to me - read my last post if you've forgotten my answer. If your view makes no sense, and you can't substantiate it with facts or evidence, there's nothing more I can do.

Quote:
There's every bit as much compelling evidence that suggests c02 isn't the driver, but may be the RESULT of high temps.

Err, the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's what's so scary: CO2 causes warming, and that warming releases more CO2 into the atmosphere - causing more warming... In other words, pretty standard physics suggests that human activity is pushing the earth's climate out of balance and into a vicious circle of runaway warming. This has been theorised for decades, and the theory hasn't changed, and the evidence increasingly bears it out.

It's not personal. It's just war.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:42 PM

How then did we have a Medieval warming period, which took place LONG before the industrial revolution ? If C02 is the CAUSE of global warming, that is, then please explain.

And if this vicious cycle , which has occurred before, leads to warmer and warmer temps, then why haven't we joined Venus in really cooking things up by now ?

And Niki, why do you assume I don't recycle ? Or never have ? Is it that you just assume, that since I'm a southern male conservative, that I automatically chuck all my plastics out the window as I drive down the road, AC blasting at full, pedal to the floor of my pick up, complete w/ gun rack and a rebel flag sticker on the window ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

OONJERAH

Thursday, July 19, 2012 12:26 AM

Arguing With “Global Warming” Idiots =>
http://www.iceagenow.com/Arguing_With_Global_Warming_Idiots.htm

GeoCraft posted a simple ten-question test online, concerning AGW (Anthropogenic
Global Warming). If you familiarize yourself with the correct answers to this quiz,
then you will have the “ammo” to deal with the deceitful criminals behind the
global warming racket.

This Global Warming (un)Reality Quiz should be posted by Rappy, not me.
The Answers in the quiz sound well-researched and scientific. They show that
everything is just fine.

Around the web:
"Most CO2 comes from volcanos."

"The most CO2 comes from the soil & Vegetation 53% and Oceans 44%."

"As for reducing CO2 production, we should be building Nuclear plants as fast
as possible. Cars only produce about 5% of our CO2. Most CO2 comes from power
production. Nuclear Power is the ONLY technology we have today that even has a
chance of providing the massive amounts of reliable 24/7 power we need and is
CO2-free."

"if you look at where most methane comes from, it really isn't from cows. It comes
from swamps and 76% of it actually, another 11% comes from termites, 8 from the
ocean, and finally 8 percent are from animals."
=============

These are the kind of "facts" my Son-in-Law used to spout at me whenever GW came up.
He is a rational, well-informed guy in his opinion.

In my opinion, he is a man uses our natural resources at whim, but has little respect
for nature and its maintenance.

How I spun his arguments: "I am a working man raising a family. I don't have time for
your s--t. I don't want to take an honest look at it, because I don't want to know what
I certainly would find."

And he said: There is no GW. If there was GW, our government would be on it.
If there was GW, humans don't cause it & can do nothing about it.
If there was GW, its effects won't be felt for 100s of years.
He did say, truthfully, that global warming and cooling is part of a tremendously
long, normal, earth cycle.

We don't want to deal with it. We're not gonna look at it.

=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

SIGNYM

Friday, July 20, 2012 3:43 AM

Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science...

Rappy knows about as much about real science as he does about real world events, which is nothing. And when real science DOES come out, he runs away.

Discussion of the Vostok ice cores and other real science...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51211&p=2

Since rappy avoids reality at all costs, may I suggest that we leave him to his delusions and work on solving the problem without him?

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 20, 2012 10:00 AM

Sig

It really bugs you when others don't buy into your religion, huh?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

ANTHONYT

Friday, July 20, 2012 1:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
may I suggest that we leave him to his delusions and work on solving the problem without him?

Hello,

I think our #1 priority should be to create more efficient energy storage. Energy is free, and energy is everywhere. But until we can store energy efficiently, there will always be a need to use heat to make energy. Heat that usually comes from burning fossil fuels or nuclear decay. (We have fusion tech, but it's probably still 50 years from being practical.)

If we can store wind or solar power effectively, then we can endure any periods without sun and wind by using the surplus in lean hours.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

AURAPTOR

Friday, July 20, 2012 1:44 PM

Energy may be free, but getting it to work for you sure isn't.

Oil companies first must find an oil reserve, drill it, pump it, ship it, refine it, pump it, ship it, and then deliver it to a gas station. Oh, and all that stuff had to be built, first , before it all could be drilled, pumped, shipped, refined, pumped, shipped, and delivered.

Despite what Obama says, it didn't just 'happen'. Someone MADE it happen. Lot of folks, actually, and they have mouths to feed and bills to pay.

So, yeah... energy IS free, if you want to do all that stuff yourself.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

KPO

Friday, July 20, 2012 3:44 PM

Quote:
How then did we have a Medieval warming period, which took place LONG before the industrial revolution ? If C02 is the CAUSE of global warming, that is, then please explain.

First of all no one is claiming that CO2 is the only factor in Earth's temperature (solar variation, volcanic activity etc. can also play a big part) - but that it is the main driver of CURRENT global warming. In the past raised temperatures have been caused by changes in Earth's orbit around the sun - but that led to an increase in CO2, which added to the temperature rise and kept the temperatures higher for a long time afterwards.

As for the Medieval warming period, I explained earlier in the thread - some REGIONS of the planet were warmer, but ON THE WHOLE THE PLANET WAS COOLER. This is a common mistake/trick of climate skeptics, to cherry pick regional temperature records, and then apply them to the whole planet.

Quote:
And if this vicious cycle , which has occurred before, leads to warmer and warmer temps, then why haven't we joined Venus in really cooking things up by now ?

Well we only receive about half as much solar heat as Venus, so we'll never have Venus-like conditions here. Understand that CO2 is not a heat source, it warms the planet by trapping the heat that we get from the sun. And if we only get so much of that, then that is a limit on warming. Another limit is the fact that as the earth gets hotter it radiates more heat out into space. So there are limits to how much our temperature can deviate - but that's not to say the temperature changes we are on course to see will not have a drastic effect on our climate.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Friday, July 20, 2012 3:56 PM

Quote:
Despite what Obama says, it didn't just 'happen'.

??

Quote?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NIKI2

Friday, July 20, 2012 7:09 PM

I think he's snarking about Obama having said small businesses don't get created by one person. Not sure, but that's what it sounds like.

If you recycle, etc., good for you, Raptor...you didn't actually say you DID, just that I was wrong to assume you don't.

It's a useless argument, folks. The more facts you come up with to convince deniers, the more they will close their ears and keep repeating their favorite talking points. It's like the gun argument, with the difference being that whether someone owns a gun or not doesn't result in the extinction of our species, but with the same stubborn adherence to what each person believes.

For simplicity's sake, and for anyone who actually CARES about it, rather than just wants to fight about it, listen to Harry:

http://www.conservation.org/act/get_involved/protect_forests/Pages/def
orestation.aspx?gclid=CO3-go34qLECFYQGRQodTHEA-w

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Friday, July 20, 2012 7:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

In just over 2 years I had turned 13k into 15.6k in my Roth IRA. I thought I was the Wall Street Kid.... So when the DOW dropped from around 15k down to 12k, I thought it would be a good time to invest in a name brand like GE. It topped out at about 42 bucks a share and I figured I was getting a bargain at 27 bucks a share. I also spent just about as much on US Bankcorp, which was giving a 5.25% dividend when savings accounts were giving less than 1%. Shortly after about 8k in those 2 purchases, the bottom fell out and I saw my 13k (plus 2.6k) turn into just over 6k in about 8 months. (This was money I'd already paid taxes on and didn't have a company match on either).

I rode it out. I didn't panic sell because I didn't need the money at the time. By the time I sold both of those stocks, they weren't worth as much as I'd paid for them, but they recovered greatly. My other big winners on the side lines helped push my final outcome to 13.2k. 200 bucks interest on 13k isn't too shabby for 4 years in this climate.

I just did the quick math. $200 interest on 13,000 over 4 year is .38 % a year simple interest, 1.5 + a tiny decimal % over the 4 years total. Depending on just what ammount under 1% those savings accounts were paying, you might have been better off overall.

NIKI2

Friday, July 20, 2012 7:50 PM

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The lack of rain is affecting Nockamixon State Park. The water fall has stopped falling. Lake level of the lake is dropping as well as the flow of the creek leaving the park which helps feed the Delaware that is a major source of water supply in the Bucks County area to Philadelphia. Here in my home town of New Hope the level of the Delaware River is minus .5 feet. We need rain badly the local farms are just withering away. With corn at just under 3 feet tall something I have never seen before in this area. SteadyDonkey of New Hope, Pennsylvania, has been visiting Nockamixon State Park for the past 30 years and says he’s never seen the water level of Nockamixon Lake as low as it has been this summer. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816832?hpt=hp_bn1

Just sayin'...

KPO

Friday, July 20, 2012 11:06 PM

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I think he's snarking about Obama having said small businesses don't get created by one person. Not sure, but that's what it sounds like.

Oh, the line about small businesses Obama didn't say, but Romney edited to make it sound as though he had?

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Monday, July 23, 2012 9:18 PM

So Auraptor now that I've answered all your points, I'd still like to hear an answer to this question:

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What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NIKI2

Monday, July 23, 2012 9:33 PM

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A graduate student studying wildlife biology was visiting Terre Haute, Indiana, where the lake at the Wabashiki Fish and Wildlife Area is suffering from receding water levels. He explains that the lake is a flood plain wetland that is often inundated by flood water from the Wabash River. He says that many lakes do typically dry up to some degree because of the summer, but this lake normally stays full.

With intense heat and little rainfall, he says currently the drought conditions in Terre Haute are extreme. These extreme conditions are evident with the dried lake and the decaying fish within it, he points out. He says as an avid bird watcher, he sees a lot of repercussion with the dried up lake. ‘It is a big disappointment. This lake attracts an impressive variety of birds and other wildlife... but when I walked out into the lake bed the only bird species I saw were a pair of turkey vultures overhead and a few Red-headed Woodpeckers,' he says.

Seeing the lake dried up to this degree almost seemed surreal to him. 'The dry and cracked lake bed resembled another planet,' he says.

A historic drought is taking its toll on wildlife and agriculture across the nation's heartland. In Terre Haute, Indiana, corn crops are withering, wildlife are suffering as important wetland habitat is drying up, and low water levels and burn bans are putting a damper on summer recreation. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-818610?hpt=hp_bn1

Again, just sayin'...

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 24, 2012 5:58 AM

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I think our #1 priority should be to create more efficient energy storage

TONY, I think our #1 priority is getting rid of assholes who want to keep everything as dysfunctional and self-destructive as it currently is, starting with the entire group of Washington politicians who think that drilling and fracking our way to the future is a good idea (lookin' at YOU, Mr Obama!) and working our way through all of the fossil fuel CEOs. They belong in the Hall of Shame along with the Seven Dwarfs (the seven tobacco company executives who testified before Congress that they didn't have ANY data showing that nicotine is addictive!) Those suckers will sell anything and say anything to keep making money even if they're killing you and your children and THEIR children and every other living creature on the planet. I put them up there with the nuclear industry.

Fortunately for politicians, they come with a built-in "disable" switch called THE VOTE. If you live in a state that is clearly swinging for Obama (that includes CA) or clearly swinging for Romney, feel free to vote third party.

The Seven Dwarfs
http://www.jeffreywigand.com/7ceos.php

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 24, 2012 11:34 AM

AnthonyT

You seem to believe that 'the market' is the cure for what ails us. I wonder what leads you to think that? 'The market' gave us the Pacific plastic patch, Fukushima, BP-Macando, the collapse of cod populations in the Atlantic, bis-phenol A and phthalates in our food along with thousands of other chemicals and nanoparticles, extinctions ... and that's just a very very short environmental list (and not even counting the rampant trashing of people).

You seem to think that better cars, renewable energy and other purchasable products will be developed and sold by corporations BECAUSE they're good ideas. Why would you think a corporation is in the business of good ideas? They're in the business of making a product as cheaply as they can get away with and selling it for as much the the market will bear. And 'the market' for those goods you think should be available (at a premium since the corporations already have their cheapest to produce products on the market) only consists of people with discretionary income. Surely you don't think that the purchasing effect of a small fraction of first-world countries on purchasable goods is the central solution - do you?

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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