NRA Prepared to make sure this never happens again
POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, December 31, 2012 18:17
VIEWED: 11684
PAGE 1 of 1
Quote:
"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.
Hello,
I will look on in curiosity and wonder to see what they propose.
--Anthony
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/18/nra-shocked-saddened-and-heartbro
ken-by-newtown-shooting/?hpt=hp_t2Quote:
"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.
Hello,
I will look on in curiosity and wonder to see what they propose.
--Anthony
Yeah. Amaze me, NRA.
Sorry, Anthony, it's been a very long few days and I'm incapable of following up the other thread. Teaching makes my brain tired.
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Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Sorry, Anthony, it's been a very long few days and I'm incapable of following up the other thread. Teaching makes my brain tired.
Hello,
Don't feel the need to apologize. I'm tired, too. There's a lot of people on one side of this discussion and very few on the other, so I feel the need to respond to a lot of stuff myself.
Well, there's Raptor, but often I'm left to wish that he wasn't arguing on my 'side' of things.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
LOL, you kill me.
Quote:Did you read this before you used it in your tagline? Just wondering.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
LOL, you kill me.Quote:Did you read this before you used it in your tagline? Just wondering.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
I specifically added this to my sig, because of exactly what it says. Why do you ask ?
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Socialism?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:Because your soul is infected. I would have thought a person using that as a sig would be able to avoid it.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I specifically added this to my sig, because of exactly what it says. Why do you ask ?
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Quote:Can I have a PPK and a plastic rocket?
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Socialism?
For ALL of us?
That's Socialism I can believe in!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Willing to buy everyone a gun, but not health care...typical!
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:^^^THIS!!!!
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Willing to buy everyone a gun, but not health care...typical!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:^^^THIS!!!!
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Willing to buy everyone a gun, but not health care...typical!
Damn right it's typical... typical GENIUS!
Cost of healthcare for everyone ? Too gorram much, because it never ends. The bills keep coming.
Cost of a gun ? Damn near peanuts, and you buy it just once!
Box ------------> me, as in thinking outside of it.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Cost of a gun ? Damn near peanuts
So you do not own a gun, figures.
Or are you rich?
Sorry, I'm asking a nut questions- I must be crazy.
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Chrissy - compare the cost of buying a gun ( minus the ammo, accessories ) and then compare that to the ANNUAL cost of health care, and even if you're buying a top of the line sniper rifle, I'd say the gun is the... logical choice. 
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Socialist. Next you'll be wanting someone else to pay for your internet service.
-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .
Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
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TRANSLATION: NRA promises to do as little as possible in order to let the stink of bad publicity fade away.
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Rap, as always, represents nothing more than the furthest-out, unthinking mentality he always does. He's not worth addressing.
And yes, I'll be curious to see what the NRA comes up with, and have little doubt it will NOT be something actually helpful.
Amusingly, if one were to calculate the cost to those of us WITH insurance for all the people without it who get treated by emergency rooms, and add THAT to the cost of guns, it would so far outweigh the cost of health insurance for all that it would make Rap's head spin. Which means nothing to Rap, any more than any other logic ever will.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Last week NRA won a US Supreme Court case against Obama's Illinois gun ban law....so Obama massacred these kids in skool. Commies always kill the intellectuals first.
Quote:
McDonald v. Chicago, 561 US 3025 (2010), was a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. The decision cleared up the uncertainty left in the wake of District of Columbia v. Heller as to the scope of gun rights in regard to the states.
Initially the Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit had upheld a Chicago ordinance banning the possession of handguns as well as other gun regulations affecting rifles and shotguns, citing United States v. Cruikshank, Presser v. Illinois, and Miller v. Texas.[2] The petition for certiorari was filed by Alan Gura, the attorney who had successfully argued Heller, and Chicago-area attorney David G. Sigale.[3] The Second Amendment Foundation and the Illinois State Rifle Association sponsored the litigation on behalf of several Chicago residents, including retiree Otis McDonald.
The oral arguments took place on March 2, 2010.[4][5] On June 28, 2010, the Supreme Court, in a 5–4 decision, reversed the Seventh Circuit's decision, holding that the Second Amendment was incorporated under the Fourteenth Amendment thus protecting those rights from infringement by local governments.[6] It then remanded the case back to Seventh Circuit to resolve conflicts between certain Chicago gun restrictions and the Second Amendment.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2012/12/victory-fo
r-self-defense-and-the-second-amendment.aspx
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf
http://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/argument_transcripts/08-152
1.pdf
http://www.chicagoguncase.com/case-filings/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago
The National Rifle Association just won a major court case in Chicago, providing a huge victory for Second Amendment proponents and gun owners.
Illinois is one of the most anti-gun states in America. Its hostility toward the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is demonstrated in a state law that forbids the carrying of firearms outside the home. There are narrow exceptions for classes of persons such as police officers, or under restrictions that keep the firearm from being readily usable, such as being kept unloaded in a locked case.
Two cases brought by gun owners supported by the NRA challenged this restriction that leaves people defenseless outside their homes, suing Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan.
On Tuesday, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit issued its two-to-one decision in Chicago, siding with gun owners in Moore v. Madigan.
The opinion was written by Judge Richard Posner, a Reagan appointee who often leans left on some issues (including guns) but is also regarded as one of the most brilliant minds on the federal bench.
Posner noted that in D.C. v. Heller, the Supreme Court held the Second Amendment secures an individual's right against the federal government to possess a firearm in one's home, and that in McDonald v. Chicago the justices held this is a fundamental right that also applies against state and local governments.
He went on to concede "the Supreme Court has not yet addressed whether the Second Amendment creates a right of self-defense outside the home."
Nonetheless, he cont
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
I don't think there are enough anti-biotics in the world to deal with the infection in your soul, my man.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Nor enough psychotropics to ever treat PN: "Last week NRA won a US Supreme Court case against Obama's Illinois gun ban law....so Obama massacred these kids in skool."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arlo:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Socialist. Next you'll be wanting someone else to pay for your internet service.
-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .
Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
The NRA is a private organization. How is it remotely 'socialist' ? I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
I don't think there are enough anti-biotics in the world to deal with the infection in your soul, my man.
It's called FREEDOM, and it's far from an infection. It's the natural state of humanity.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he? What, he thinks the NRA could buy everyone in America a gun? The NRA exists to help gun manufacturers MAKE MONEY, not give things away. The only source that would buy or provide "everyone in America" with ANYTHING would of course be the government.
Socialism. Ta da!
Sadly, what infects Rap's soul isn't "freedom", but that it were so. No, it's "mindless hatred"--he's incapable of seeing the greys in life and merely parrots what his "sources" tell him is true. I doubt he even understands the meaning of "freedom", and of course what infects him is far uglier and more festering than any antibiotic could cure, you're right.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's called FREEDOM, and it's far from an infection. It's the natural state of humanity.
In your case, its called zealotry, and its beyond tiresome.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he?
Its amazing how many posters have made that particular observation...
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he? What, he thinks the NRA could buy everyone in America a gun? The NRA exists to help gun manufacturers MAKE MONEY, not give things away. The only source that would buy or provide "everyone in America" with ANYTHING would of course be the government.
Socialism. Ta da!
Good grief!
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/joking.wav
I know YOU love the idea of the govt giving everyone in America something, but then again, this govt is 16 trillion dollars in debt. So, it's not GIVING anyone any damn thing. Except a huge bill of debt.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Arlo:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Buy every damn person in the USA a gun, AND a lifetime membership???
Oh, please! Santa make it so!!!
Socialist. Next you'll be wanting someone else to pay for your internet service.
-- -.-- / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. .
Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
The NRA is a private organization. How is it remotely 'socialist' ? I think you have a problem with your brain being missing.
Thanks for the clarification. A charity case that wants someone to buy them a gun. Better?
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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arlo:
Thanks for the clarification. A charity case that wants someone to buy them a gun. Better?
WANTS ? No, genius, read the title of the thread again... ( or for once, which ever )
NRA Prepared to make sure this never happens again
Now, go back and read MY initial reply. It's pretty easy, even for you, to figure out my meaning. Follow up, if you're still confused.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Good grief!
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/joking.wav
I know YOU love the idea of the govt giving everyone in America something, but then again, this govt is 16 trillion dollars in debt. So, it's not GIVING anyone any damn thing. Except a huge bill of debt.
And ...
Defense
Education
Transportation
Financial Aid
Infrastructure
Research and Development
Commerce
Back to the NRA giving you a gun and a lifetime membership. Odds are they're betting the Darwin factor, via the gun, would probably play a part in making that lifetime membership short.
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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Arlo:
Thanks for the clarification. A charity case that wants someone to buy them a gun. Better?
WANTS ? No, genius, read the title of the thread again... ( or for once, which ever )
NRA Prepared to make sure this never happens again
Now, go back and read MY initial reply. It's pretty easy, even for you, to figure out my meaning. Follow up, if you're still confused.
Nobody else is confused about what you posted but you.
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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arlo:
Back to the NRA giving you a gun and a lifetime membership. Odds are they're betting the Darwin factor, via the gun, would probably play a part in making that lifetime membership short.
There it is, right on cue. Standard Left wing retort. Anyone who doesn't buy into your collectivist , Left wing group think is any combination of... racist, homophobe, bigot, stupid, misogynist, hate filled, evil, rich, white, or all of the above.
I don't see things as you do, so I'm an idiot, and I'll likely shoot myself, and be dead, before too long.
Friends = good. Enemies = bad.
So sorry to disappoint. How old are you, btw ? Sound all of 20, from your posts.
You're clearly clueless about what I posted, as you called me a socialist ! ROFLMAO!!!
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Standard Left wing retort.
.snip.
How old are you, btw ? Sound all of 20, from your posts.
.snip.
You're clearly clueless about what I posted, as you called me a socialist ! ROFLMAO!!!
You're not very good at this, it appears. You're lack of basic guessing skills pretty much matches your lack of logic and reasoning ability. I may suggest you work on those in a private support group setting before attempting to continue in public. =0)
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Um, WHO did you say you were, again and what are you trying to sell?
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Oh, gawd, I'm loving it! Arlo, you and Mike REALLY have to meet! I think you might actually even best him...but do have a caution; Rap apparently has an endless amount of time to spare, and will continue to goad and respond just as long as he gets a reply from you. So count your time; if you enjoy this shit, go for it. If you have better things to do with your life, beware pissing it away baiting this ultra right winger incapable of individual thought. Just so's you know.
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So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo! That'll fix 'em bad guys! So the next fellow who comes along wanting to kill a couple dozen children won't have anywhere to go! Um...except public playgrounds, boardwalks, theme parks, swimming pools, beaches, shopping malls... Oh well, it's the thought that counts, don'it, NRA? Why don't we just have armed gunmen on every street corner??? Land of the free! Home of the depraved!
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo!
Which was pretty much the response of school and state officials after the Columbine shootings. Many schools put in metal detectors and security guards. However, after nothing else happened for a few years, governments decided to save some money by cutting security.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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What, planning for lightning to strike twice isn't cost effective??? Who'da thunk?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
However, after nothing else happened for a few years...
By nothing, are you referring to the 30 or so other school shootings since then?
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Arlo--he doesn't get it, does he? What, he thinks the NRA could buy everyone in America a gun? The NRA exists to help gun manufacturers MAKE MONEY, not give things away. The only source that would buy or provide "everyone in America" with ANYTHING would of course be the government.
Socialism. Ta da!
Good grief!
http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/frank/sounds/joking.wav
This, from the douche who went on and on about how a joke from a comedian about Obama being a deity reflects how the entire left thinks....
Its like you've made it your mission to embrace hypocrisy, while proving your ignorance of irony. In which case - you are doing remarkably well. Good job!
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo! That'll fix 'em bad guys!
If only there had been an armed guard -- maybe, say, a sheriff's deputy -- at Columbine who could have prevented the massacre... (Googling now)
Oh. Never mind.
Well, if only there had been someone with a weapon who could have fought back against the Ft. Hood shooter --
Shit.
Golly, gee, maybe the NRA doesn't have internet access....
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Amusingly, the NRA seems to be as oblivious to irony as ol' rappy:
"This is the beginning of a serious conversation. We won't be taking any questions."
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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It was totally predictable that the NRA's "contribution" to what happened in Sandy Hook would be to somehow enable MORE guns in MORE places; did anyone really expect otherwise?Quote:
The National Rifle Association called on Congress to put armed police officers in every school in America. CEO Wayne LaPierre blamed many things in his press conference for the influx of mass shootings in the U.S. — everything from gun-free school zones, the media, movies, violent video games, hurricanes, and a lack of government funding.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," LaPierre said.
LaPierre also blamed lack of government funding. "With all the foreign aid … with all the money in federal budget … can't we afford to put a police officer in every school?"
A lesser part of his speech placed blame on a media culture that he suggested promoted violence. He took aim at celebrities, video games, and movies for advancing that culture. "Another little dirty secret the media tries to conceal," LaPierre says, is "a callous corrupt and disgusting shadow industry ... vicious violent video games." He then called violent films "the filthiest form of pornography."
"Then there’s the blood-soaked slasher films like 'American Psycho' and 'Natural Born Killers' that are aired like propaganda loops on 'Splatterdays' and every day," he said, "and a thousand music videos that
portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life."Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-press-conference-gun-control-sandy-
hook-school-shooting-2012-12#ixzz2FiVpCMrq
Did anyone really expect otherwise? Let's get serious about what the NRA really IS:Quote:
The National Rifle Association portrays itself as an organization that represents “4 million members” who simply love the Second Amendment. The truth is much more murky.
In reality, the NRA is composed of half a dozen legal entities; some designed to run undisclosed attack ads in political campaigns, others to lobby and collect tens of millions in undisclosed, tax-deductible sums.
Despite the grassroots façade, there is much evidence to suggest that corporations that profit from unregulated gun use are propping up the NRA’s activities, much like how the tobacco lobby secretly funded “Smokers Rights’” fronts and libertarian anti-tax groups, or how polluters currently finance much of the climate change skepticism movement.
The Violence Policy Center has estimated that since 2005, gun manufacturers have contributed up to $38.9 million to the NRA. Those numbers, however, are based on publicly listed “sponsorship” levels on NRA fundraising pamphlets. The real figures could be much bigger. Like Crossroads GPS or Americans for Prosperity, or the Sierra Club for that matter, the NRA does not disclose any donor information even though it spends millions on federal elections.
And like other industry fronts, the NRA is quick to conceal its pro–gun industry policy positions as ideological commitments.
Take, for example, “The NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund.” It’s a pro–gun rights legal fund “involved in court cases establishing legal precedents in favor of gun owners.”
And who helps pick which impact-litigation cases the NRA will become involved with? Folks like James W. Porter II, a board member of the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, who doubles as an attorney whose private firm specializes in “areas of products liability defense of firearms manufacturers.” His last client, according to a search of the federal court docket, was Smith & Wesson Corporation.
Is the NRA working for casual gun-owners, many of whom, according to polling, support tougher restrictions on gun ownership — or is the NRA serving the gunmaker lobby — which is purely interested in policies that will promote greater gun sales and more profits? Any gun control policy debate should begin
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
This, from the douche who went on and on about how a joke from a comedian about Obama being a deity reflects how the entire left thinks....
It wasn't just ONE joke, brainless. It's a common theme, repeated time and time again, by the Left, and the MSM. Jamie Fox only reinforced the notion, by coming out - AGAIN - to clarify.
Quote:
Its like you've made it your mission to embrace hypocrisy, while proving your ignorance of irony. In which case - you are doing remarkably well. Good job!
You use words like hypocrisy, ignorance and irony, yet do so incorrectly, showing you have no clue of what you speak. Best for you to just remain silent, Storybook.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Rappy you could just type "I know you are, but what I'm I?" it would be quicker and frankly more honest and argument for you.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Rappy you could just type "I know you are, but what I'm I?" it would be quicker and frankly more honest and argument for you.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
Wait, isn't that what he's already doing? After a while, all his gibberish just bleeds together.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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nickerson - I've repeatedly shown where the Left has indeed referred to Obama as " sort of God ". You're perpetual, childish refusal to face reality isn't MY problem. You can cover your eyes and wish it all away, but guess what, truth is still there, still staring at you, and will be, for long after you're gone.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
So, wonder of wonders, the NRA came out today with their big plan: armed guards at every school!!! Whoohoo! That'll fix 'em bad guys! So the next fellow who comes along wanting to kill a couple dozen children won't have anywhere to go! Um...except public playgrounds, boardwalks, theme parks, swimming pools, beaches, shopping malls... Oh well, it's the thought that counts, don'it, NRA? Why don't we just have armed gunmen on every street corner??? Land of the free! Home of the depraved!
*headdesk*
This is one of the many reasons I don't support the NRA.
I am all for organisations willing to protect the rights of the individual, but I DO expect them to do so INTELLIGENTLY, and as of late the NRA has been as useful an advocate of the right to bear arms as Fred Phelps is in regard to free speech.
-Frem
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"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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So surprise, surprise - Wayne LaPierre came out and whined about people blaming guns, and then basically blamed video games and Hollywood.
Last time I checked, none of my movies or video games has ever gotten off the shelf and gone to a school and murdered 27 people.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
nickerson - I've repeatedly shown where the Left has indeed referred to Obama as " sort of God ".
You've repeatedly claimed that ONE guy - NOT "the Left", but a single person - supposedly said that.
The fact that you've claimed it many times doesn't mean it's happened many times.
Jamie Foxx never referred to the president as "sort of god".
Quote:
You're perpetual, childish refusal to face reality isn't MY problem.
"You are perpetual, childish refusal..." Doesn't quite read right, does it?
Quote:
You can cover your eyes and wish it all away, but guess what, truth is still there, still staring at you, and will be, for long after you're gone.
Speaking from experience, aren't you?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Speaking from experience? Yeah, how long have I been HERE, watching you idiots ignore reality? A fair amount o' time. Very experienced.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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LaPierre calls for the federal government to spend whatever it takes to put armed guards in every school in the nation.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
Except that that's rarely what happens.
Columbine had armed guards.
Virginia Tech had an armed police force.
Fort Hood had an army.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:Seven years now I've been reading your nonsense... do you do the same at Scout.com? Just askin'.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, how long have been HERE, watching you idiots ignore reality? A fair amount o' time. Very experienced.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, gawd, I'm loving it! Arlo, you and Mike REALLY have to meet! I think you might actually even best him...but do have a caution; Rap apparently has an endless amount of time to spare, and will continue to goad and respond just as long as he gets a reply from you. So count your time; if you enjoy this shit, go for it. If you have better things to do with your life, beware pissing it away baiting this ultra right winger incapable of individual thought. Just so's you know.
Oh, Arlo and I have met, even if we haven't formally introduced ourselves to each other. I'm a bit of a ghost here lately. Very busy winding down a business and moving on to the next gig. Hoping for one where I can take my dog to work, but that's rather the exception than the rule, I'm afraid. I'm in negotiations with a couple other companies, so let the bidding wars begin!
I'm having fun watching him twist Rappy up with his own words.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
However, after nothing else happened for a few years...
By nothing, are you referring to the 30 or so other school shootings since then?
Apparently so in the perception of those in charge, since school security funding was decreased by State and local governments.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Seven years now I've been reading your nonsense... do you do the same at Scout.com? Just askin'.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah, how long have been HERE, watching you idiots ignore reality? A fair amount o' time. Very experienced.
Stalk much?
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
TRANSLATION: NRA promises to do as little as possible in order to let the stink of bad publicity fade away- SIGNY.
DAMN, they're predicable!!!
What is the answer to our clusterfuck of a society??
MORE GUNS!!!!
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Ahhh, Mike, glad to see you've met. You guys are two peas in a pod to me, with subtle differences. Or actually, Arlo is kind of like a cross between you and Anthony, in some ways. I'm thoroughly enjoying his contributions.
All good wishes on the job hunt--crossing fingers you CAN find something that lets you take your dog. There are quite a bit of such things around here, but only in smaller businesses, not in the corporate world (of course!).
I had noticed you were around less. Aside from not missing your lengthy head-to-heads with poor Rap, I do miss you. But it looks like there are others to take up the slack on that one, so I'll just miss you, period. Just for gawd's sake, never disappear completely! I kinda count on you...
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/18/nra-shocked-saddened-and-heartbro
ken-by-newtown-shooting/?hpt=hp_t2Quote:
"The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again.
Hello,
I will look on in curiosity and wonder to see what they propose.
--Anthony
The NRA was founded as a govt agency to train school children how to shoot rifles, because 90% of US soldiers refused to shoot enemy soldiers on the battlefields.
This week the NRA demanded Congress turn every school into a police state gulag manned by police state death squads, that will only end up shooting and killing more children. This plan will require a massive tax increase.
Columbine has an armed police state deat hsquad assigned to the school the same day as the shootings by the jewish Trench Coat Mafia, yet failed to stop the shooting, then SWAT teams shoot the innocent students as they fled the lockdown Victim Disarmament Zone.
SAndy Hook police refused to enter the locked down Victim Disarmament Zone for 4 hours in order to allow the shooters to finish the job, and to force victims to bleed out and die by denying them medical care. No eyewitness ever saw Adam Lanza with a gun or shoot anybody.
The Tennessee plan is infinitely superior, by arming teachers and adult students, at zero cost to the taxslaves. As senator FRank Nicely pointed out, the brainwashed shooters are preprogrammed by MKULTRa to self-destruct and suicide at first sight of a gun or arrest, to protect the identities of conspirators, thus it is very rare to actually have to shoot back.
Meanwhile at the Sandy Hook psyop, no AR15 "assault rifle" was used by jewish Wall Street vaccine-damaged retard genius Adam Lanza, because his mother's AR15 never left the trunk of his car according to official police video. Police officially declare that the only bullets fired inside the school were 223 caliiber used by an AR15, and police arrested at least 4 other suspects including a man in cammo inside the school during the shootings. Actors playing "victim's parents" held fake press conferences where they were laughing on camera then faking crocodile tears with great difficulty.
Operation Sandy Hook is straight from the playbook of Operation Northwoods and Operation Gladio, where US and NATO troops masscred civilians by the 100s of mass bombings and shootings as false flag events to blame policial groups or innocent nations to "justify" war. Northwoods required fake funerals for fake victims who never died then resumed their true identities and lived hapily ever after.
BTW "SAndy Hook School Strike Zone One" in Dark Knight Rases was added after the first 2 DK movies, replacing the other name for South Gotham City.
A movie titled "SANDY HOOK LINGERE MASSACRE" was also realesed the same day as Dark Knight Rises...
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Quote:
What is the answer to our clusterfuck of a society??
Maybe... 
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I don't think paying for armed security guards to be at each school is the best solution. But allowing teachers to conceal carry if they choose (with required permit and certification/instruction for those who choose to) would be just fine with me, I wouldn't mind such a practice at my little brother's school. Or certified volunteer parents who come in to parent help anyway, or the principal.
I also would be fine with re upping the ban on asault guns, we had such a ban for a while and everyone I know who owns guns still had plenty. I've always been okay with the idea of re upping that ban.
I find it alarming that no one mentioned the atrocity of having a registry of people with mental illness, I mean WHAT????????????/ I watched the press release on CNN and when he said that I was pretty concerned. I don't want to be on some rutting registry of "dangerous" people, no rutting way.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:NRA is to gun rights what Rush Limbaugh is to conservatism. And yes, Fred Phelps to Christianity.
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
... as of late the NRA has been as useful an advocate of the right to bear arms as Fred Phelps is in regard to free speech.
Everyone is looking at the wrong end of the problem.
Instead of trying to prevent the reactions to the insanity that is our culture, we should be looking at changing the culture so those reactions are not seeded and provoked in the first place.
-----
Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.
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I like your comparisons! Changing society is tough at best; I happen to think virtually impossible in ours. We'll evolve with time, but this time in history is pretty negative, angry and armed, unfortunately. I probably won't live long enough to see it change much; these things take time.
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Quote:You WOULDN'T??? I would! Unless your little brother goes to a particularly dangerous urban school, where a student is killed at least once a year in student-on-student violence, the risk of teachers "packing" seems far higher to me (drawer is left unlocked, teacher is specifically targeted for gun theft, gun goes off accidentally) than external risk. If the concern is school invasion (a very low risk) you can go to "closed campus" setup with bullet-proof entrances.
I don't think paying for armed security guards to be at each school is the best solution. But allowing teachers to conceal carry if they choose (with required permit and certification/instruction for those who choose to) would be just fine with me, I wouldn't mind such a practice at my little brother's school.
Quote:I guess my first question is" Are you dangerous? If you are, should you be on a registry?
I find it alarming that no one mentioned the atrocity of having a registry of people with mental illness, I mean WHAT????????????/ I watched the press release on CNN and when he said that I was pretty concerned. I don't want to be on some rutting registry of "dangerous" people, no rutting way.
If not, how would you feel about a registry for people with active, drug-resistant TB?
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Quote:
how would you feel about a registry for people with active, drug-resistant TB?
For the life of me, I can't figure out what that has to do with the conversation!
A registration of people who are seriously disturbed, or have something in their history which indicates they could be a danger, wouldn't bother me. It's the concept of registering EVERYONE with a mental illness, which is insane, and which I find interesting coming from anyone who rejects the idea of a registry for gun owners. The dichotomy is amazing.
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In both cases, the person is a danger to others through a medical condition which is no fault of their own. If you're OK with the idea of registering infectious TB patients but not the violently mentally ill, why or why not?
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seems there is a bit of pick and choose regarding constitutional rights here. Becoming a bit like the bible?
Quote:
US gun rights advocates have signed a White House petition calling for British CNN host Piers Morgan to be deported for allegedly attacking the Second Amendment rights of ordinary Americans.
The outspoken former British tabloid editor has launched something of a personal crusade for greater gun control measures in the wake of the December 14 massacre at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut.
On Tuesday, Morgan held an especially contentious interview with executive director of Gun Owners of America Larry Pratt, appearing to become incensed and incredulous when Pratt suggested more, not fewer, weapons as the solution.
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"You're an unbelievably stupid man, aren't you?" Morgan said at one point during the heated debate. "You have absolutely no coherent argument. You don't actually give a damn about the gun murder rate in America."
Following the interview, a Texas journalist posted a petition on the White House website alleging Morgan "is engaged in a hostile attack against the US Constitution by targeting the Second Amendment".
Piers Morgan
?
@piersmorgan
Just 4821 signatures needed to take my deportation petition to the point Obama has to respond. I urge you to sign: petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/depor…
24 Dec 12
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"We demand that Mr Morgan be deported immediately for his effort to undermine the Bill of Rights and for exploiting his position as a national network television host to stage attacks against the rights of American citizens," it says.
Many Americans believe in the literal interpretation of the Second Amendment, which enshrines the "right to bear arms" in the US constitution.
Morgan insists America can outlaw military-style assault weapons and high-capacity magazines without infringing on people's constitutional rights and says he has no quarrel with the Second Amendment.
Two days after the petition calling for Morgan's deportation was posted, it had already garnered more than 19,000 signatures, closing in quickly on the 25,000 required to get a response from the White House.
A defiant Morgan refused to back down from his position.
"Ironic US gun rights campaign to deport me for 'attacking 2nd Amendment rights' - is my opinion not protected under 1st Amendment rights?," he posted on his Twitter feed on Saturday, referring to freedom of speech provisions.
Morgan continued to post incendiary comments on the gun control debate, including a response on Sunday morning to an NBC interview with a top official in the powerful pro-gun lobby group, the National Rifle Association.
"Watching davidgregory expose Wayne Lapierre for what he is - a dangerous, dim-witted, deluded menace to American safety. NRA," Morgan tweeted.
At least some Americans have come out in support of the British citizen.
In one message, reposted by Morgan, Lee Cox in Arizona wrote: "I'm a native-born US citizen, and I agree 100% with Mr Morgan. If he goes back to the UK, should I go with him?"
AFP
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/deport-piers-morga
n-bid-to-kick-out-tv-host-for-gun-stance-20121224-2bu0s.html#ixzz2FuxrQAhF
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Lists of people worry me, about the only people I don't mind having a list of are people who have committed sexual crimes against kids. Other than that I don't really like listing people in an official registry of that ilk.
Am I dangerous? I don't think so, I've never harmed anyone, I make responsible choices. But the guy in the press conference (I watched it live) wants a registry of people with mental illness throughout the country, no way Jose.
About TB, I still don't like the idea of a list, I'd rather take my chances in life than label people in an irrevokable way.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
However, after nothing else happened for a few years...
By nothing, are you referring to the 30 or so other school shootings since then?
Apparently so in the perception of those in charge, since school security funding was decreased by State and local governments.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
Everything at schools has been cut - because the right would rather cut off education that cut back on tank orders.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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OK RIONA, just clarifying if your reaction was because you identified with the "mentally ill" or if was less personally interested. I feel I understand you now, thanks.
OOC, have you rethought the idea of teachers "packing"? Because really, the thought scares me to death. I would really have to weigh the pro and con risks, and if my kid's school was THAT dangerous I'd prolly try to get on the school board!
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It really wouldn't bother me Signe, as long as everyone who "packs" has had proper instruction and has demonstrated proficiency and clear understanding of safety etc. and keeps the weapon on their person at all times so as not to have kiddos pick it up and it accidentally go off.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Roll Tide!
SGG
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Socialism?
Good one Kwix, I didn't think of that, ha!
Here's another one:
Government spending. Of course, there would be an uptick in gun manufacturing. Say, wait a minute! That would also boost the economy and help stimulate the job market. That would mean the president would get the credit.
Now, don't get excited. It's true, Obama's election in 2008 helped to stimulate the gun industry. Isn't that ironical like!? Ha!
This gets better all the time!!!
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
LaPierre calls for the federal government to spend whatever it takes to put armed guards in every school in the nation.
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
Except that that's rarely what happens.
Columbine had armed guards.
Virginia Tech had an armed police force.
Fort Hood had an army.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
So true!
LaPeePee claims that movies, video games and the entertainment field in general are to blame for gun violence. Funny, aren't those the very mechanisms that drive gun sales through the roof and pay his salary?
SGG
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We have sexual predator registries, why not a mental health registry. Perhaps narrow it down to those who have access to legal weapons (such as in this case).
It's ironic that his mother was his first victim. The guns were legal and she often took him to the firing range (that was the rumor). He knew exactly what he was doing.
Lanza wanted to join the Marines. Imagine him in the Marines? The damage he could have done there.
SGG
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Quote:I smell a lot of "if" comin' offa that plan.
It really wouldn't bother me Signe, as long as everyone who "packs" has had proper instruction and has demonstrated proficiency and clear understanding of safety etc. and keeps the weapon on their person at all times so as not to have kiddos pick it up and it accidentally go off.
Sadly, I missed Kwicko's post which showed that even the presence of ARMED GUARDS (or, in one case, an army) failed to stop a mass shooting. THNX SGG for repeating it... that will prevent a lot of regurgitated discussion. If armed guards don't work, are armed civilians supposed to work better????
So, aside from the general WTF????? reaction I have to the whole idea, I have just crossed the whole idea of armed guards (or teachers, or students) off my list. It would take some pretty convincing data to put it back on.
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AFA registries are concerned.... there are at this point some pretty clear guidelines about how get on a sexual predator registry, and why. In some cases, the guidelines are erroneous... for example in some cases sex between two fifteen-year-olds lands the boy on the list, which may not be appropriate to the situation. (I personally knew one of those devil-spawn children who seduced a much older boy who was... seriously... only looking for love and acceptance. Oh, the stories I could tell about this kid!) But at least those criteria are fairly defined and based on past behavior.
How do you even begin to define mental illness and pick out, out of all of the possible grades and dysfunctions that occur in the brain or in upbringing, who should be on the list and who shouldn't?
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Jewish Trench Coat Mafiya massacred only Christians at Columbine High School Hell
Quote:
COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER!!
Guess our national leaders didn't expect this. On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.
They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:
"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.
I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.
Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!
"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pra
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
Except that that's rarely what happens.
Columbine had armed guards.
Virginia Tech had an armed police force.
Fort Hood had an army.
Columbine was in a " gun free zone ", and also took place during the " assault gun ban " era of Clinton.
VA Tech - Also in a gun free zone. Armed police force ? Yeah, only a hand full for the entire campus, and none were in the building at the time of the shooting.
Ft Hood - Despite there being an " army " , Ft Hood was also a gun free zone. Only MPs and those at the firing range would have access to guns and ammo.
The twisting and distortion of the facts, by Kwickie and the Left on these matters ( and others ) is a true impediment to true enlightenment and finding workable solutions to these very real problems. Giving away more and more freedom is NOT the answer.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
NRA is to gun rights what Rush Limbaugh is to conservatism. And yes, Fred Phelps to Christianity.
Well, that doesn't make one lick of sense, at all. Who else out there is promoting gun safety and reminding us of our 2nd Amendment Rights other than the NRA ? Seriously, put up a list of groups, please. And as for Rush ? Who do you consider to be a 'true' conservative, if not him? Almost 25 yearrs on the radio, and the most listeners of any radio show host in the US is far from the extreme, far lunatic fringe end of the scale, as are the Phelps nut jobs.
You grouping the first two together w/the last doesn't make it so.
Quote:
Everyone is looking at the wrong end of the problem.
Instead of trying to prevent the reactions to the insanity that is our culture, we should be looking at changing the culture so those reactions are not seeded and provoked in the first place.
I think we, as a society, can walk and chew gum at the same time. Yes, the focus should be on the CAUSE of these murdering crazy Ivans, but we also need to defend ourselves. Taking guns away doesn't solve the problem. It just makes for more victims who can't fight back.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
How do you even begin to define mental illness and pick out, out of all of the possible grades and dysfunctions that occur in the brain or in upbringing, who should be on the list and who shouldn't?
Yup, Sig, exactly my point. Also interesting to me that, while rejecting the idea of ANY gun registry, EVER, ANYWHERE, ANY list of gun owners, people nonetheless have no problem whatsoever considering a list of the mentally ill! Comparatively, we mentally ill have killed/injured FAR fewer people than gun owners have, but hey, obviously our right to privacy isn't anything compared to their right to own weapons.
To compare a registration of mentally ill to that of sex offenders just blows my mind. Like the stigma of mental illness isn't bad enough already--they want to put us on a list for a physical disorder we didn't even ask for or do anything to deserve! And again I ask; if such a registry is created, as anyone considered how that will affect people with mental illness coming forward to seek treatment?!? Think about it...
What I seem to be hearing is that we should put armed police at the door to every university (since if there are armed guards and they aren't RIGHT in the vicinity of the violence, they're useless), every school, every movie theater--since that comes into it, too--and I guess every church, business, mall, super market and every other place where mass slaughter has occurred. Thta seems to be the suggestion, since it seems logical to think that the lives of average citizens count (maybe ALMOST) as much as those of children.
Oh, and apparently we should be arming teachers--so I guess that means supermarket checkout workers, postal workers, clergy...nobody seems to see the logical extrapolation of this. Nor does anyone seem to RATIONALLY consider the fact that, were teachers armed, the chances of something going wrong and someone getting hurt/killed are FAR higher than those that the gun would ever be EFFECTIVE in stopping a mass murderer. I know the gun bunnies believe a teacher could stop an armed murderer, but in my opinion they're living in a fantasy world.
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They ARE a buncha idjits, Brenda - all else aside they're absolutely terrible at their stated purpose, one of those get-off-my-side kinda problems with them!
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHelpingMe
On that note, welcome to the shark pit that is RWED, Brenda.
Bear in mind that Haken takes little if any hand in moderation here, preferring to let us thrash it out ourselves, good, bad and ugly (and may he be eternally blessed for this) so it can be a much rougher experience than the rest of the site - don't let that turn you off if it's not your thing, the rest of the place is quite friendly.
Oh, and meet Piratenews, our local variation on the Weekly World News - not quiiiite as crazy as he seems, but not exactly the voice of reason, no.
Nor for that matter, am I - being, yanno, an Anarchist!
(unless you consider Anarchism reasonable, in which case everyone ELSE is nuts, meh heh heh.)
So, welcome to the party, and best don your mosh pit gear, ehe ?
-Frem
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I've had it with you people. I express (all be it poorly and without proper forethought as to wording) my opinion of a continuum of degrading social structures involving marriage and standards relating there to and get crucified. Shiny compares people with mental illness to sexual predators and the only person who notices is Niki. You people are hopeless, why do I waste my time with you guys? The double standard around here is so thick you could cut it with a knife. You guys have fallen into the trap of a degrading world and you're drowning in it. And I can't save you. Maybe I should find something more productive to do with my time.
Pathetic.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Where did that come from ^
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Where did that come from ^
Ri does have a point, after all. Tit for tat, despite the comments by... who ever, does seem to rule the roost here.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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It came from about a month ago when we had an ... incident. Its fair to not agree with someone, but what happened was beyond that. How can I expect better from humanity though.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Must of missed it, Rione. Feels a bit odd when threads taint one another.
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Sweetie, many, MANY of us hear what the NRA has to blab and have our jaws drop. They're totally insane, and we've known it for quite some time. If you keep in mind that they exist for no other reason than to sell guns for the gun manufacturers, it makes more sense...they are complicit in writing and getting passed laws like the "stand your ground" one, and many, many more--all of which are geared to nothing but SELLING GUNS!
Even their members, by a large majority, want to see some gun restrictions and better background checks, etc., but they're not there for their members, only to get their members' money, then they work for the gun manufacturers, period.
Always happy to see a coherent voice on either side, and here you'll find you have many supportive voices on the left and middle, unlike over on the OB. We've got our right-wing nutcases (which you've already met), and even one or two actually INTELLIGENT, even moderate (!) right-wingers, but believe me, you're not alone. And are MOST welcome!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
As long as you don't mind someone who stands to the LEFT on most things. Politically speaking that is.
I'd appreciate hearing WHY you stand up for what ya do, other than " because the Right sucks ", and such.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Most of these groups just want their members money and don't care how many people get hurt or killed if more guns reach the streets.
Actually, in the NRA's case it's more that they want their overlords, the gun manufacturers, to sell as many guns as humanly possible. That's where their money comes from, their membership dues are just the cherry on the top.
By the way, some states are already arming and/or training their teachers. How long do we think it will be before the first horror story comes out? Considering the increasing stress teachers are under, how many of them have to deal with kids prone to violence in the first place, and all the rest, it's a recipe for one or another kind of awfulness.
I had a friend who was a teacher; the politics, low pay, and all the rest are far more than I could endure, I don't know how they do!Quote:
Teacher's suicide stuns school, spurs colleagues to speak out
School board surprised by allegations of workplace bullying and fear http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-01-01/news/ct-met-teacher-suic
ide-20120101_1_suicide-note-school-board-teachersQuote:
Teacher ranked “less effective” by the Los Angeles Times takes his own life
His former students recall his teaching as passionate, tireless, and selfless. Ruelas often stayed after hours at school to tutor students individually and to counsel them in their personal lives. Since his death, many former students have come forward to describe Ruelas as a mentor who always gave good advice and worked to keep them out of gangs.
“He took the worst students and tried to change their lives,” Ismael Delgado, a former student, told the Associated Press. “I had friends who wanted to be gangsters, but he talked them out of it. He treated you like family.”
Hundreds of students, teachers, and workers have expressed similar sentiments in online comments wherever Ruelas’ death has been reported.
“This is truly a sad story,” one woman wrote. “This was a man that took pride in himself as a teacher. He honestly believed he was making a difference in these kids’ lives.”
“Teaching at an urban high school is by far the most stressful job I’ve ever had,” wrote another, sympathizing with the hardships faced by teachers like Ruelas.
The myriad difficulties involved in their daily work weigh heavily on teachers. “The little feedback that we are getting right now is that that school wasn’t the healthiest place to be working,” Ruelas’ brother Alejandro, told a local radio station. “The people who are supposed to be helping them as far as administrators, principals, are using these kinds of scores [published by the Times] also to bully and harass.”
Decades of budget cuts and mismanagement have taken their toll on public schools in the US. Class sizes have skyrocketed, outdated textbooks have not been replaced, school libraries have been closed, art and music classes are no longer offered, and many school buildings have become filthy and dangerous. Many teachers are compelled to buy supplies such as paper and pencils out of their own salaries.
At the same time, teachers themselves are faced with stagnant wages and rapidly evaporating benefits. Like the rest of the working class in the US, teachers confront deteriorating living standards and financial insecurity.
Ruelas’ “ranking” was among the thousands published by the Los Angeles Times as part of its campaign against teachers. According to the Los Angeles Times “Grading the Teachers” report, Ruelas was “average” at teaching English, “less effective” in math, and “less effective” overall.
The outpouring of praise for Ruelas’ teaching by his former students and colleagues exposes the complete fraud of the “Grading the Teachers” campaign. The campaign has nothing to do with improving education. It is nothing more than a crude smear against teachers, designed to justify mass teacher layoffs and the closure and privatization of public schools.
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The NRA was founded in 1871. How does the fact that it accepts $ from the gun industry make it their 'overlords' ? Seems to me that it's a quid pro quo arrangement, where both parties rely on each other.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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As to the NRA and gun manufacturers, only someone self-blinded would argue anything but that the NRA works for the gun manufacturers, and does virtually nothing more.Quote:
Why can’t America keep murder weapons out of the hands of these lunatics? The answer: the NRA Industrial Complex.
Each time we have one of these mass murders, the shooters get enormous publicity. But the makers of weapons — without which these killings would be a deranged individual’s fantasy — seem to benefit. To be fair, the National Rifle Association (NRA) has been scaring gun owners about the imminent threat to their arsenals ever since President Obama took office. The NRA’s tactics have contributed to industry growth.
And that growth has been impressive. After all, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation between 2008 and 2011, jobs in companies that make, distribute, and sell firearms and ammunition have grown 30%
By any measure, the gun industry is outpacing the US economy that has been inching along at a 2% annual rate.
And America can give some of the credit for that to the NRA. Bloomberg reported that the NRA ended 2011 as “a lobbying, merchandising and marketing machine that brings in more than $200 million a year
And the gun industry – led by Ruger – has benefited tremendously from the NRA. According to IRS fillings, from 2004 to 2010, the NRA’s revenue from fundraising — including gifts from gun makers who benefit from its political activism — grew twice as fast as its income from members’ dues.
Over 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to NRA according to its list for a donor program that began in 2005. That was the year NRA lobbyists helped get a federal law passed that limits liability claims against gun makers. Former NRA President Sandy Froman wrote that it “saved the American gun industry from bankruptcy,” according to Bloomberg.
But the key to gun industry growth in the last few years is the NRA’s effort to scare gun owners and stop President Obama from being re-elected. To that end, NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre gave a September 2011 speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference in Orlando, Fla., in which he announced “a massive Obama conspiracy to deceive voters and hide his true intentions to destroy the Second Amendment in our country.”
Do we want to make sure that a handful of gun industry executives and shareholders continue to enjoy market-beating profits? Ultimately, the NRA’s power comes from the way it spends money to reward politicians, who turn its self-interest into the law of the land and use its money and power to defeat politicians who oppose its will. Guns are an essential ingredient in senseless mass murders.
And gun industry money is similarly vital to stifling anyone who dares discuss changes in the law that would keep Rugers and Glocks out of the hands of lunatics. Excerpts from http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2012/07/23/the-nra-industrial-c
omplex/
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Niki - even if they do, which I don't buy, so what ?
Keeping guns from law abiding citizens, which is all Obama really wants to do, will not keep law abiding citizens safe.
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Regarding the NRA, they will do essentially ANYTHING to keep selling guns, even when it comes to our military:Quote:
US military commanders are increasingly expressing frustration with the National Rifle Association for blocking what they feel are vital measures to keep troops safe.
The controversy revolves around the surge in suicide within the armed forces. The Pentagon is facing an “epidemic,” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta told lawmakers this week, with some 206 US troops suspected of taking their own lives so far this year.
“That is an epidemic,” he said. “Something is wrong.”
As they cast about looking for possible ways to bring down the rates of suicide, commanders say that the answer may lie in having candid discussions with their soldiers about their personal firearms--and to take personal weapons away from those who appear likely to hurt themselves.
“The majority of [suicides] have two things in common: Alcohol and a gun. That’s just the way it is,” General Peter Chiarelli, the Army’s former Vice Chief of Staff, told the Monitor this January, shortly before he retired. “And when you have somebody that you in fact feel is high risk, I don’t believe it’s unreasonable to tell that individual that it would not be a good idea to have a weapon around the house.”
The problem, say US military commanders, is that a new NRA-backed law prohibits them from engaging in discussions about weapons and safety.
“I am not allowed to ask a soldier who lives off-post whether that soldier has a privately-owned weapon,” Chiarelli says. The legislation took effect at the end of 2010.
While commanders are permitted to ask troops who appear to be an imminent danger to themselves or others about private firearms--or to suggest locking them temporarily in a base depot--the law requires that if the soldier denies that he or she is thinking about harming anyone, then the commander cannot pursue the discussion further, he adds.
Half of troops that killed themselves use firearms to end their life and “suicide in most cases is a spontaneous event” that is often fueled by drugs and alcohol. But “if you can separate the individual from the weapon,” he added, “you can lower the incidences of suicide.”
“In many circumstances, awareness of risk means removing firearms from those who we believe are at risk of harming themselves or others,” Brig. Gen. Jonathan Woodson, an Army Reserve physician and Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs, told the audience at a recent suicide prevention conference. “I would ask all of you at this conference to commit to making reasonable recommendations that will guide uniform policy that will allow the separation of privately-owned firearms from those believed to be at risk of suicide."More at http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0727/Gun-control-Why-the-US
-military-is-fighting-with-the-NRA/(page)/2
So to the NRA, the risk of suicide by soldiers, which is a very real risk and which has been increasing for some time now, is trumped by the good old Second Amendment and keeping guns in the hands of as many as possible.
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Why does your silly cartoon ( and that's exactly what it is ) specify the right to own guns for RECREATION ? Where in the 2nd Amendment does it mention recreation ? Or for sport ? It doesn't.
Quote:
There is no legitimate exception to the Second Amendment for military-style weapons, because military-style weapons are precisely what the Second Amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear. The purpose of the Second Amendment is to secure our ability to oppose enemies foreign and domestic, a guarantee against disorder and tyranny.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/336529/regulating-militia-kevin
-d-williamson#
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
A thought occurs to me. Before I write that thought, I want to remind everyone that I've been clear about taking a reasoned, rational middle road on the issue of gun control.
My thought is this:
Speaking on average, 87 people died of gun-inflicted violence in the last twenty-four hours. This is to say nothing of rapes, robberies, and other crimes committed at gunpoint.
The common argument from the radical end of the pro-gun spectrum is that if these people were armed, those crimes would be prevented.
I have to call bullshit on that narrative, permanently and definitively.
Why?
On Monday, March 30th, 1981, while surrounded by a dozen or more heavily armed and excruciatingly well-trained Secret Service agents, President Ronald Reagan was shot and wounded by a random lone gunman in a crowd of people in Washington, DC.
Not only did all of those guns in the hands of highly-trained professionals not stop John Hinkley, Jr. from pulling out his own pistol and shooting quite probably the most heavily-protected man on the planet, Hinkley was able to fire *six times*, hitting a police officer and a secret service agent directly, and grazing the president with a ricohet. Even *after* those six shots were fired, it was still a random union steward (or "thug" if you prefer) from Cleveland who made the first and critical contact and apprehension of the shooter. He did not use a gun to do it.
In addition to all of that, there is the stark fact that *at no point* during the assassination attempt was the reality of several of the world's most highly-trained gunmen whose sole purpose in life is to provide an immediate armed response to precisely such a situation, and equipped with the most powerful and advanced firearms federal money can buy, any sort of factor in preventing the assassination attempt or subduing and arresting the shooter.
Now can we PLEASE put this ridiculous notion that some random yobbo with a Saturday night special in his waistband could do any better, and start talking some rational, reasoned solutions to the problem of gun-related violence in our culture?
Thanks.
John Henry
http://www.facebook.com/JohnHenryLG?ref=stream
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Please Disregard this message.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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