the real shepard book

POSTED BY: tudyksgagreel
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 16:11
VIEWED: 24736
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TUDYKSGAGREEL

Friday, October 3, 2003 8:09 PM

does anyone have any theorys on the true story of books past. Is he really a shepard? Jubal Early says hes not and he seems to have an alliance designation (as seen in SAFE), seeing as he was originally signed for 10 episodes maybe they had a twist planned with his character that they delayed due to his likeability. I believe he has a very dark secret, he couldnt know all the things he does bein a shepard.
Any Theorys?

LUNATIKAT

Friday, October 3, 2003 9:30 PM

Yeah, I think a lot about Book. Since part of what I'd like to see in the series-long story arc would be Mal and Serenity/Crew orbiting ever more closely an active anti-Alliance underground, sucked back into political/military life against their will, my fantasy about Book is that his monastery was secretly active during the war (against the Alliance, of course)and that it still shelters some Very Important People and that Book has skills, connections and secrets we cannot begin to guess at.

It seems to me that the root conflict for this series is that old individual vs. society conflict and from other folks' posts I see I'm not the only one to focus on this. One of the eternal conflicts, since it can never be settled one way or the other, but must, by the very nature of human beings as social individuals, always be settled somewhere between the societies of bees and bears, and always only temporarily.

So, on Serenity this is played out in the small captain vs. crew ways, in the sky in Rebels vs. Alliance ways, and in the stories we have the glorious dramatic freedom to explore this conflict with our choice of background cultures, technologies, styles et cetera. Everyone on Serenity must grapple with this conflict not only in the ways personal to their individual character but also in ways that reflect the major forces in human lives. Zoe and Wash showcase concerns of those who are beginning new families, Simon and River on the simplest level demonstrate the horrors of recovering from abandonment and abuse, Kaylee and Simon experience the travels towards love, Jane the journey to loyalty over self-interest, Inara the career person trying to find a place for a personal life while maintaining a commitment to one's chosen work, and of course in Book we seek to live a religious/spiritual life of love and peace in a secular world of strife and violence.

Lunatikat- you can't win, you can't break even, you can't even get out of the game

LUNATIKAT

Friday, October 3, 2003 9:37 PM

Sorry, forgot Mal, that guy (women too) who wants to be independent and free but always winds up with others to take care of (and be tied down by).

Lunatikat - somewhere over the madness horizon and accelerating

LINDYCAT

Friday, October 3, 2003 10:18 PM

I have several theories on what kind of past Book might have had.

1. May be in witness protection. He could be a criminal in witness protection who had some training at the abby to establish the cover. Though it would seem like he should be watched a bit more.

2. May be an undercover agent. He may be a deep cover agent for some alliance agency who doesnt really care about River and Simon (he has a more improtant mission). Seems to cover all the bases and this is the theory I place most faith in.

3. May be a Blue Sun spy. He could be following River and Simon to observe how River does on exposure to the outside and her transition from the experiments to real life. Seems a bit flawed in the timing of taking passage on Serenity, but he may be a reader too, or knew where Simon would go. This also assumes Blue Sun was the company that experimented on River.

4. He could be retired alliance who got religion, he may honestly be trying to be a shepard.

5. He may be a combo of 2 & 3 watching River for the alliance or Blue Sun when the other was the initiator of the experinment.

Just what I have been thinking.

LC

CHANNAIN

Friday, October 3, 2003 10:36 PM

Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard. Looked to me like he boarded before Simon though, so I don't think he's after the Tam's in particular. I'm not even sure he's working for the Alliance either, although his name is known to them - whatever his name is on his ident card. Just because he's "called Book" doesn't mean that's his real name, now does it?

I'm going with the retired Alliance who found religion option. A man in conflict with his past, trying to find his way and letting his faith guide him. He's a seeker.

John Newton, author of the first four stanzas of "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave trade vessel once upon a time. It's said he had an epiphany in the midst of his chosen profession and found his faith during a violent storm aboard ship when it looked like he might be lost at sea. Could be something of the like happened to Book, turning him to that different path. Could be part of his walking the world awhile was to find out whether his own epiphany was the real deal or just a moment in time.

Can't say I have a solid theory on that moment in OiS when River heard Book's thoughts "I don't give a damn whether you're innocent or not. How does that make you feel?" I'm one of them that believes River's presence in the room with Book and Jayne at the time was her astral projection. In light of that, there's no telling who Book really had in mind. He may even know something about Jayne that nobody else does.

Book's true motivation is only one of many things I would have liked to learn with this series.

EMBASSY

Saturday, October 4, 2003 2:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:

Can't say I have a solid theory on that moment in OiS when River heard Book's thoughts "I don't give a damn whether you're innocent or not. How does that make you feel?" I'm one of them that believes River's presence in the room with Book and Jayne at the time was her astral projection. In light of that, there's no telling who Book really had in mind. He may even know something about Jayne that nobody else does.

Book's true motivation is only one of many things I would have liked to learn with this series.

This is the problematic line that I don't have a good answer for either. I'm in general firmly of the belief that Book was formerly a senior law enforcement guy, not alliance military, but a cop. But this line isn't consistent with that so I'm still puzzled. Which, of course, makes it interesting to think about.

JAHZARA

Saturday, October 4, 2003 5:00 AM

I have this uncanny ability to guess story arcs. Well, I guess its not that unusual, considering how simple TV usually is...

But anyway, one of the reasons I love Firefly is because I have absolutely no idea what his deal is. None.

Oh, this show rules!

I think everything focusing Book is pretty much archived in this one music video.

I don't how to link, but its Succatash's page.
strangefinger.com. Go to TV/Movies, click on firefly fans.

It rocks.

VETERAN

Saturday, October 4, 2003 5:06 AM

Quote:
But this line isn't consistent with that so I'm still puzzled. Which, of course, makes it interesting to think about.

Why not? It sounds like "Good Cop/Bad Cop" interrogation.

11THHOUR

Saturday, October 4, 2003 5:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Embassy:
This is the problematic line that I don't have a good answer for either. I'm in general firmly of the belief that Book was formerly a senior law enforcement guy, not alliance military, but a cop. ...

Of COURSE he was a cop.

Just checkout the TV Land network and see "Barney Miller"!

Mystery solved...

not.

11thHour

_________________________________________________________

~ "Every frame of this movie looks like someone's last known photograph." Joel Hodgson - MST3K

~ "Religion is for people who are afraid of Hell. Spirituality is for those who've been there." - American Indian proverb

DRAKON

Saturday, October 4, 2003 9:24 AM

First off, I think Book is now a good guy. Part of that is I would hate to think Zoe, let alone Mal, were that bad a judge of character. Besides, Book has shown himself to not be a weak man, and handy in a fight, and knowledgable about some things he probably shouldn't be.

Whether he always was a good guy, that is another question. Also, it probably should be pointed out that "good guy" is kind of a loose term here.

I get the sense that he is worried about having a "hot house" faith. One that makes him very comfortable in the abbey, but may not work well in the outside world. It does not comfort him when they are running out of air in "Out of Gas"

If he is presently Alliance, why did he get the snot beat out of him in "Serenity", by the guy whose life he saved. Granted, the idiot was unconscious at the time, and maybe he was pissed at getting decked by a preacher, but still, there was more than just a return punch.

He has had opportunity to turn River in, but don't. He fights side by side with Mal and Zoe. He "kneecaps" some folks in "War Stories" (although I think he needs to study anatomy a bit. Kneecaps are not located in the chest area)

My guess, given the data we have, is that he is former internal security, (like FBI counter terrorism, only more police statish) and has done some very bad things, and is trying to change. Trying to be a shepard. That this is a recent release into the world, after a few years of monastic living.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

FREESOUP

Saturday, October 4, 2003 12:47 PM

Well, this is a fellow who knows his way with guns, tracking on the ground, insignia of Alliance, and a LOT about lethal illegal space salvage.

That means he's either a crime specialist, a former bounty hunter, a Black Ops boy either privately or for the Alliance military, a military inderdicter of pirates and other criminals, an anthropologist studying the Reaver problem, a shit disturber or a witness having been relocated after doing any of the above.

Any guesses which ones get him fast, fast relief on an Alliance vessel on patrol of the Rim?

He's clearly experienced at doing bad stuff well. The question he may be asking himself is can an old dog really learn new tricks?

Free Soup, from OB That Was.

MOJAVERATTLER

Saturday, October 4, 2003 9:58 PM

Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

-mojave

TRAGICSTORY

Saturday, October 4, 2003 9:59 PM

My two cents is that Book was Alliance. High up Alliance brass. Then he realized that the ideals he was fighting for were not the same as the status quo he was defending.

He got all of his previous skills (tracking, guns, etc.) because he became brass byworking up from a grunt.

I also believe that is an asian (custom,tradition, honorable choice) to quit the military to become a religious man in the later years of your life. So I think that Book, sick at what he was fighting for opted for the only non-eyebrow raising way out and joined the abby.

Of course to make this idea work we would have to assume that Niska was low level alliance (but with a reputation for being a bastard)

Of course we could always jump Joss and Tim and beat it out of them. DON'T THINK WE HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT YOU KNOW WHAT INARA IS RUNNING FROM!

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

BARNEYT

Sunday, October 5, 2003 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MojaveRattler:
Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

I'm agreeing with the 'Book was a cop before he became a Shepherd' theory - although I think it has to have been military police, for his ID card to have that much clout with the Alliance.

My read of this line is that it's his own thoughts about the different ways of thinking he has now compared to his days in the police. 'Cause presumably as a shepherd he's no longer concerned with the crimes Jayne may or may not have committed - which would be a real switch for his cop-trained mind.

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

GTHING

Sunday, October 5, 2003 2:12 PM

I actually am working on a fanfic series, where I’m planning to explore some of Book’s past. Of course, I have to figure out what some of those secrets are. This thread is definitely useful for hearing other fans’ speculations.

Excerpt from My Genre Geek Resume:
~huge Odyssey 5 fan (despite its cancellation)
~dangerously obsessed with BtVS and Angel
~former Andromeda fan
GO CUBS!!!

ANDRE

Monday, October 6, 2003 4:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard.

Well, not quite. Remember how he said to Jayne he has never been with a woman...?

Sometime Jayne also said "someday we'll find out how can a preacher know so much about crime". Book gave some answer like "maybe someday you'll know" but I can't remember exactly the words...

SPACEANGLER

Monday, October 6, 2003 4:13 PM

So maybe he was a gay cop.

BARNEYT

Monday, October 6, 2003 4:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by andre:
Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard.

Well, not quite. Remember how he said to Jayne he has never been with a woman...?

He said to Jayne, he'd never been with a woman? What episode did that happen in?

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

SPACEANGLER

Monday, October 6, 2003 4:22 PM

It was Objects in Space, wasn't it?

------------------------------------
In desperate need of a Signature.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Monday, October 6, 2003 5:01 PM

Lots of army-types don't ever marry either. So Book could have been in the military intelligence a long time without marrying, then moved into the shepherd role to try to pay for his past sins... most likely his role in planning the attack on Serenity valley.

SUCCATASH

Monday, October 6, 2003 5:36 PM

As I recall, the whole conversation about Book not having sex and "channeling his energy elsewhere" takes place in the context of his being a shepherd.

We do know that Book has never married. We don't know anything about Book's sex life before he became a shepherd. And we don't know when he became a shepherd.

Book is definitely one of the coolest characters of all time.

ANDRE

Monday, October 6, 2003 6:31 PM

In a attempt to find out WHO IS THIS GUY (who claims himself to be) NAMED BOOK, we need to gather some facts about him:

(I haven't watched all episodes and I don't have a HD inside my head, so correct me if I'm wrong)

1) He never claimed he has been a preacher all his life.
2) His actions show that he has been envolved with crime/war/etc in the past. He never denied that. ("How can a preacher know so much about crime?" "Maybe someday I'll tell you" - Jayne and Book)
3) He had some involvement with alliance. (he was attended by a alliance hospital - no questions asked)
4) He was never maried.
5) He boarded Serenity before Simon & River.
6) River readed his thoughts: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're
innocent or not. So where does that put you?" He might not be speaking about her. But he had some evil look on his eyes... (personally, I think he is remembering something someone told him)
7) He is not a weak man.
8) He (seem to) dislike the idea of getting involved into crime.
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.
10) He spoke to Mal about a special hell. Bible says nothing about it, but maybe he was just mocking Mal.
11) He's one of the coolest characteres of all times, and maybe even one of the coolest in Firefly.

Personally, I believe that:

1) If he wanted to do anything bad against someone in Serenity, he would have done already.
2) He's too realistic as a preacher to be in witness program.
3) I have no doubt his motivations are honest. (unless he's fooling me too! :-)

So my two cents would be:

He was involved in the war (maybe in Serenity battle). Maybe he was in the Independents side and betrayed his friends. Maybe he was in the Alliance side and witnessed/took part in a mass assassination. At some point he might have claimed to be innocent and someone told him: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" Well, with this one sentence everything became clear to him.

So he found God and abandoned his life of evil. He joined a monastery and rebuilt a life. Probably changed his name. I think that's pretty much it.

Maybe someone can point out any other facts (or almost-facts)...

KAYTHRYN

Monday, October 6, 2003 6:43 PM

Quote:
Posted by Andre:
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.

Was he really upset by the fact that Inara is a companion or was he upset that Mal lead him to believe she was a state official, then laughed at his discomfort? I don't think he had a problem with Inara's job, I don’t think he supports it, but he still refers to her kindly and calls her a "respectable Companion".

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

VETERAN

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 1:37 AM

Quote:

Andre:
6) River readed his thoughts: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're
innocent or not. So where does that put you?" He might not be speaking about her. But he had some evil look on his eyes... (personally, I think he is remembering something someone told him)

10) He spoke to Mal about a special hell. Bible says nothing about it, but maybe he was just mocking Mal.
11) He's one of the coolest characteres of all times, and maybe even one of the coolest in Firefly.

6)I think that the memory River reads from Book in OIS could be a lot of things. It could be what you said. But because he has the angry look on his face, I think it's something he said to someone else, perhaps as part of an interrogation.

10)The special hell comment was terrific. It reminded me so much of his character Harris on Barney Miller. I don't think he was mocking here, just doing what he could to emphasize the point to Mal. Interesting point with this episode is that he didn't spot Saffron as a grifter.

11) What can I say they're all cool in their own way, but you're right he is the coolest.

GRANNYSTEEL

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 4:24 AM

One thing that impressed me was the prompt medical care and the lack of questions afterward. Like that which would be accorded to Commander James Bond, or to Billy Graham.
He could have been the spritual advisor to someone high up in the Allience, and gone into seclusion because the reality did not match the retoric. As for his proficency with wheapons, and martial arts, a man goes through more than one phase in his life. I am betting soldier, scholar, scientist, priest.

The idea that someone said "I don't give half a hump" to Book is fasinating. If Book said it to someone, he is duplictious since I can not think of a senario where the character he presents would not treat the innocent different than the guilty. It had not occured to me that it might be the memory of something said to him.

DRAKON

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 8:31 AM

Quote:
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.

Umm.. That is not what I saw, or how I saw it, one of the two.

Mal was being obviously mean to Inara, and Book both, by noting her profession in the manner he did. Plus you have the embarrassment of thinking Inara was some kind of politician and finding out you were decieved, that she was a prostitute instead. (Hmmm...mistaking a whore for a politician. There has got to be a good line there somewhere.)

Also, he did bring her food, and joke with her about sermons later on.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

DRAKON

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 8:44 AM

Quote:
If Book said it to someone, he is duplictious since I can not think of a senario where the character he presents would not treat the innocent different than the guilty.

Was duplictious, I think (hope) you meant.

That line has always bugged me, and it is clear that Joss meant for it too. Was he reviewing a pass sin of his own, something visited on himself, what?

Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

VETERAN

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 10:13 PM

Quote:

Drakon Wrote:
Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

No, no it wouldn't. Joss, if you read this, please let us in on Book's past. There see that wasn't too hard.

VETERAN

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 10:13 PM

Quote:

Drakon Wrote:
Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

No, no it wouldn't. Joss, if you read this, please let us in on Book's past. There see that wasn't too hard.

VETERAN

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 10:14 PM

OOps double post. Pardon my impatience with the "Post my response" button.

DRAKON

Wednesday, October 8, 2003 8:30 AM

Well it does double the chance Joss will notice it

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

STILLSHINY

Wednesday, October 8, 2003 2:44 PM

In the process of showing the epps to some friends of ours. Using the order Haken has under the episode guide. Anyway, it's fun to watch newcomers twist over the "mystery man" Shepherd Book. Yep, I'm !

Mal: “See how I'm not punching him? I think I've grown!”

CHARLIEMOUSE

Tuesday, October 14, 2003 2:50 PM

One of the reasons i was so gutted about firefly being cancelled (apart from the fact that it was just great) was that we never got to learn the twists. Unlike a lot of other shows, Joss Whedon things generally dont throw stuff in unless they mean to explain it and i want to know about Book dammit.

My main theories are that

1. Alliance type (high up) who converted
2. Independance type (equally high up) who went into hiding / converted
3. Spent his youth in smuggling / piracy before repenting his sins and finding God.

Personally i want it to be 3, although i think it may well be one (the alliance ID if nothing else - although ill gotten wealth could buy status). Either way, i think he may be someone big enough that if the crew ever found out his name theyd know who he was.

"as with other situations, the key seems to be giving Jayne a heavy stick and standing back"

BARNEYT

Friday, October 17, 2003 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by charliemouse:
3. Spent his youth in smuggling / piracy before repenting his sins and finding God.

Personally i want it to be 3, although i think it may well be one (the alliance ID if nothing else - although ill gotten wealth could buy status). Either way, i think he may be someone big enough that if the crew ever found out his name theyd know who he was.

This is an interesting thought - rather than being actual Alliance military, he's a civilian that has a lot of clout with the Alliance - weapons manufacturer maybe...

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

JK

Friday, October 17, 2003 4:58 PM

I dunno. If I had to guess, I'd say he was a program from the machine world...sorry, old Alliance geezer. There's just too much gunning for that theory. He's taken onto an Alliance cruiser for medical aid so quickly it's scary. He knows all about weapons and ships (two areas of knowledge that don't seem to logically overlap) and is competent in combat. Plus there's that bit in Serenity where Simon mentions the Alliance officer that was responsible for the defeat of the browncoats. Lot of speculation earlier ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=2072) that this officer was Book, and that'd make sense. You could see Joss doing that.

I do think he was a general who worked his way up, gathering all his strange little trivia on the way. He was in charge of the battle of Serenity Valley. Following the victory of the Alliance, he sees that the cause he fought for wasn't so great (that whole 'governments are ungoverned' bit?) and got all disillusioned. Found some faith. Joined Serenity because it was Serenity Valley that gave him his faith.

But then I could be wrong. Damn you Joss.

JK

"Where there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

CALDEEN

Saturday, October 25, 2003 5:02 AM

If it is option 3 he could have been in the abby for something like the witness protection. An interesting thought.

SGTRAUKSAUFF

Monday, December 29, 2003 8:47 PM

There are a lot of really really interesting possibilities for him. My own cool thought was that he's somehow involved with the Blue Sun group as well as the Alliance, perhaps because the Alliance is aware of (bankrolling?) the human experiments being performed at their 'school'. I think Book could be even more highly trained than we know, and is a consummate 'secret agent' infiltrator type. I think he's there to keep an eye on the Tams, or to Keep Blue Sun from getting their hands on them too soon, if at all. I see River as an exremely pivotal part of this show, so I think that Book's involvement would be more in her direction than in Mal's.

Or, with the half-a-hump line, perhaps he had a disagreement with someone, but that comment was definitely in some sort of conflict-based context. (To really overanalyze it, wasn't the emphasis on the last word, "you" rather than "that".. so instead of 'Where does THAT Put you?', it was "Where does that put YOU?', like someone was being asked or forced to choose sides on an issue ). Whether it was said by Book or by someone speaking to him, it was Very different from all the other 'brain quotes' that River heard from everyone else.... I think that someone of higher or equal rank disagreed with him or did something he found out about.. maybe he was in command of a facility that was actually doing the experiments, he found out, and left? I think that he didn't leave though, because that Alliance ship jumped when they saw his ID badge.

hmm.. anyway, just some musings from a bored mind at work...

Bitch! I cut off my Beard for you!!

INSANESPIKE

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:23 AM

I never got a chance to watch "Firefly" until it was released on DVD, but after watching it once, I was in love.

However, the one thing that bugged me the most after watching the final episode was the fact that we never learned the truth about Book's past. So this is a topic I definitely want to weigh in on.

My theory tends to go along with many others that have already been mentioned here. Sometime in the past, during the war, Book was Alliance. That's the only way I can explain the prompt medical service he received as soon as the feds saw his ID card. But, the question is, what is he now? Is he really a shephard? Or is he still some sort of Alliance spy?

Now, knowing how Joss Whedon's mind operates, I could very easily see him going either way with this. But it's my opinion that Book is mostly what he appears to be. If he was some sort of Alliance spy, we most likely would have been given clues somewhere along the line. Also, I don't think he'd be so willing to put his life on the line for Mal like he did in "War Stories". I believe that it something along that same lines as several other have said. He realized the error of his ways after the war, and became a shephard to try and turn his life around. If I remember right, he said that he had been in the monastery for six years, and that would conincide with the end of war, right?

I just hope that when the move comes out, Joss lets us know what Book's secret is. Otherwise, I think I might go crazy!

"How drunk was I last night?"

GIANTROBO

Wednesday, December 31, 2003 8:15 AM

I personally get the impression that Book was a high ranking Alliance military officer. Maybe a decorated war hero or a general or something. Only he got delusioned during the war and saw how human the enemy really was... other people. so he got out of service, and chose the life of a shepard as some kind of personal redemption. Now he knows a few things from his past, and he holds high status with the alliance, but no longer servs them and isn't entirely sure about their all-encompassing rule. After all, things get mighty gray out here on the rim.

It's not the most original idea in the forum, but it's still the one I believe most probable.

MAL'SGAL

Saturday, January 3, 2004 6:35 PM

Who was Shepard Book and why did he find God (if is really is a Shepard)?

I like the idea that the Shepard's finding God may in some way be tied to Mal's loss of faith. Once again, it leads back to Serenity Valley.

LADYJAYNE

Monday, January 5, 2004 1:58 AM

Another of the great mysteries the undoubtedly would have been given to us half-way through season 2. Sigh.

Book is such a beautifully written character. He so much reminds me of the priest from the first chapter of Victor Hugo's LES MISERABLE or even possibly Prince Siddhartha/Guatama Buddha. That's how I like to imagine his background: Born to wealth, saw too much unethical behavior by his social class and then turned to a spiritual life. The details are irrelevant to me, but the archetype is a particular favorite of mine.

--Kala

PHOTINUSPYRALIS

Tuesday, February 17, 2004 10:51 PM

Kala is dead-on. Shepherd Book has reminded me of someone for quite a while, and I now realize it's the kind Bishop from early on in Les Miserables: Valjean names him "Monsieur le Cure." Good call.

That being said, I do agree that the thought we see revealed when he's under River's scrutiny argues in favor of a more "complicated" background, and that the military command at Serenity does seem more likely than the other theories I've heard.

What a great character (the actor, Ron Glass, is fantastic, as well!).

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyJayne:
Another of the great mysteries the undoubtedly would have been given to us half-way through season 2. Sigh.

Book is such a beautifully written character. He so much reminds me of the priest from the first chapter of Victor Hugo's LES MISERABLE or even possibly Prince Siddhartha/Guatama Buddha. That's how I like to imagine his background: Born to wealth, saw too much unethical behavior by his social class and then turned to a spiritual life. The details are irrelevant to me, but the archetype is a particular favorite of mine.

--Kala

"Always have enjoyed guessing games." --Shepherd Book, Dead or Alive

PALEHORSE

Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:43 PM

Now, I know that there have been some wild and somewhat valid conjectures regarding the past and future of our beloved Sheppard.

I propose that he was in some way in command of Aliance troops during the battle of Serenity Valey, a dark day for all of us loyal to the independants.

As support for my hypothesis I offer a only incedental evidence.

1. Mal has owned Serenity for 5 years(commentary - "Out of Gas")a year or two after the war

2. Book is proficient in the use of weaponry and usually has the reflexes of a cat (just watch him in action in "War Stories")

3. It was common after a safe return from the Crusades, to join a monastic order once the horror of war, and the guilt associated with not only your own actions but also the guilt of surviving when others you knew had died, finally caught up with the well to do

4. Book has not yet been ordained(I believe that I remember him saying as much)

5. Even if he had been ordained, the seminary would take @ 6 years for most faiths.

6. Book is given top notch medical care on the Aliance cruiser in "Bushwacked". The kind of care that an enlisted man would not recieve, and not the fawning and bowing that a highly placed government official would recieve, more like a respected officer or hero might expect.

7. Durring a conversation with Inarra over a crisis of faith (said conversation rife with supporting lines for fans of Joss's thinking) book says that he thinks he got on the wrong ship, and is told that he is right where he needs to be(Serenity)

He is hiding, in my opinion, from his own guilt.

He is not "on the lam" or desperatly trying to stay under the radar as the use of his ident card would have popped up a red flag to detain him( a warant gets you arrested if the cops stop you for speeding in Va. and we don't have the cortex)

Yes he was looking for a ship as a passenger, but what made him choose Serenity for, 1st transit, then a home is his personal growth and atonement.

If he were an officer in the aliance military, his perspective durring the war as to what kind of person would fight for the independants would have to be skewed in order to allow him to order them slain. He now sees that they were human and is coping with his guilt issues.

Joss drops hints in BTVS season 3 that the bed in Buffy's dreams is for "Little Sister"

In BTVS season 4 "spirit guide" Tara tells Buffy to be home before "DAWN"

The clues have been there for us, but the aura of mystery has been focused on, and I too Hate this phrase, "the girl in the box".

It's like Moe(3 Stooges) moving his hand and twiddling his fingers to get your attention before hi hits you with the hammer you've known was in his other hand the whole time.

Then we have the deleted scenes.

In the original opening Zoe keeps asking Mal what colors(flag) the med ships are flying with the response "Does it matter?".
Once she proposes that there may be a god after all Mal's response is to the efect of "God? Wonder what color he flies."
Could be a back-handed clue or illustration with Book as a sheapherd, or at least posing as one.

Next we have the first of the two scene clip wherein Book asks Simon whether he caught the name of the ship he has boarded.
When Simon assumes the mundane definition of Serenety to be the case Book directs him to brush up on his history if he wants to bond with the crew.
Book, I take it, knew the meaning if not on sight then certainly by the time he set foot on the ship.

The second of the two scene clip, while cool with the name of the general, was most striking in Zoe's recounting of the true horror of the wounded being left for dead for a whole week.
I also dug the line regading making Serenity your home. Talk about classic double entandre(sp?).

There were prodigies and portents enough, One-Eye says. We must blame ourselves for misinterpreting them. One-Eye's handicap in no way impairs his marvelous hindsight.

WHOODAHN

Tuesday, February 17, 2004 11:58 PM

I agree with your assesment of Shepherd Book.

I wonder why River doesn't 'read' him more often. If he has secrets to hide and is loaded with guilt, shouldn't River have picked up on it?

PUDOR

Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:33 AM

Quite clearly, Book is Zoe and Mal's lovechild, sent back through time to 'set things right' and avenge the awful death of the entire Serenity crew at the hands of River The World Destroyer.

His skill with arms and knowledge of torture techniques and criminal activities is obviously due to his childhood tutor, Nishka's head-in-a-jar.

With Joss's well-documented aim being to destroy any notion of causality and predicability amongst his public, this seems as likely a scenario as any to me :)

PHOTINUSPYRALIS

Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:08 AM

Why "Mal and Zoe's lovechild?" Why doesn't Wash get any respect?? After all, he and Zoe (1) are married; (2) discussed having children in "Heart of Gold"; and (3) were seen makin' sweet, sweet love (um, on the bridge) in "Objects in Space."

Then again, perhaps all of this is misdirection, and Book is actually Jubal Earley's father, riddled by guild for failing to protect Earley's mother (and the lovable golden retreiver) from his adolescent predations. That would explain Earley's comment that Book is "no shepherd."

Okay, enough of that. I'm sticking with Book as General Whatshisname, commander of alliance forces at the Battle of Serenity Valley on Hera. I think PaleHorse's points on that are pretty compelling.

PUDOR

Wednesday, February 18, 2004 2:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhotinusPyralis:
Why "Mal and Zoe's lovechild?" Why doesn't Wash get any respect?? After all, he and Zoe (1) are married; (2) discussed having children in "Heart of Gold"; and (3) were seen makin' sweet, sweet love (um, on the bridge) in "Objects in Space."

Ah. You see, Wash is disembowled by one of his own dinosaur toys when our Valiant Crew visit the Planet Of The Growth Slime and all the toys on board becomes sentient. Alien headcrabs then trick Mal into thinking Zoe is Inara, and Zoe into thinking Mal is Wash, and we are treated to a slow motion, 12 minute long love-making scene, with the sad music from the end of 'The Message' overlaid.

(in my defense, it is 2:10am here, and I've been translating Virgil all bloody day)...

ROCKETJOCK

Thursday, April 1, 2004 3:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MojaveRattler:
Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

-mojave

Rewatching this episode the other day, I realized something: Every verbal/mental pickup River gets from someone is a regret. Simon regrets the good life he gave up to save his sister; Jayne regrets his stupidity in betraying his shipmates (and definately regrets getting caught at it.) Inara regrets pressuring someone (A doctor? Her priestess? Her lover?) to tell her the truth about her condition/situation; and Mal regrets losing his faith.

{Keep in mind, these people might or might not make the same choices again. It's entirely possible to regret a necessity.}

The only ones who show no regrets are Kaylee, who is such a pure soul/creature of innocent impulse that she probably doesn't have any, and Zoe/Wash, who are too deeply into the pleasure of the moment to regret anything.

And in this context, Book's regret is that, at some point in his past, he did not care about justice, either in general, or against someone in particular. Not a bad thing to regret, actually.

No conclusions. Just an observation.

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

MALICIOUS

Friday, April 2, 2004 12:32 AM

Rocketjock,

The last time I watched OIS, I noticed that most (if not all) of the lines River "heard" were said elsewhere in the episode, in different contexts than what she heard them.

When she first saw and heard Simon and Kaylee talking, the line "I would be there right now..." was very cold and made River feel guilty for causing Simon's life to go off course. When Simon actually did say the line in the true context, it was said more with wonder and a touch of melancholy, not remorse, regret or anger.

But that's just my take...

Mal-licious

MALICIOUS

Saturday, April 3, 2004 12:00 AM

My bad. I just watched OIS again and the only line repeated in the episode appears to be the "I would be there right now..." one by Simon. However, knowing Joss (not really KNOWING, but you know), there may have been future episodes with them inserted in them, like easter eggs, to go back and find like treasure. When I watch the entire series again (next week?), I will look for the others in previous episodes.

1st: Simon "I would be there right now..."

2nd: Jayne: "I got stupid. The money was too good." (Does this sound familiar? Did Jayne say this to Mal when Mal put him in the airlock? Or maybe when Simon finally realizes it was Jayne who turned them in and threatens him?)

3rd: Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Where does that put you?" (I don't recall Book saying anything near that rude, but maybe Joss would have clarified in a future ep?)

4th: Inara: "I'm a big girl. Just tell me." (Another one intended to be clarified in a future episode? Or perhaps Inara wants Mal to just tell her that he does not care for her? That he wants her to leave? That she can handle it?---Like she "handled" it in "Heart of Gold"?)

5th: Mal: "None of it means a damn thing." (Is this, or something like it, said in any of the war scenes? Maybe when Mal determines that God was not on his side? Or maybe he is trying to tell Inara that if she leaves, his lifestyle has no meaning??)

My point being that I (personally) don't believe any of the things River "heard" were addressed to her directly, just that she picked random thoughts from everyone, and heard them out of their true context. I think we the audience were intended to be let in on the true meanings slowly over the rest of the season-that-never-was.

Anyone?

Mal-licious

Simon to Jubal Early: "My sister's a ship...we had a complicated childhood."

Mal to River-as-Serenity: "How come there's a man on board and you're all of a sudden the ship?"

SOUNDHACK

Friday, April 9, 2004 8:16 AM

One thing that occured to me, and I am most likely just reading too much, but I think a cool possible double entendre would be in Serenity,
when Mal confronts Simon in the cargo bay and accuses him of being Alliance (or a Fed?). Book off screen says something like "I'm afraid you have the wrong man"

Now obviously the main way to interpret it is at face value- that actual Fed guy pointing the gun is who Book is referring to. But what if it is a sly in-joke/twist that Book is referring to himself?

I'm not saying that Book at that moment was a Fed/Alliance/cop but that that was a hint of what he was before.

That would explain why Book was in the cargo (as was raised in another thread) he had to be the one to say it for the hint/joke to work!

In anycase like others I think Book is the most fascinating character on Firefly.

SKYDANCE

Tuesday, April 13, 2004 7:36 PM

Couple things I haven't seen pointed out yet:

1. Book isn't just proficient in combat. He's an expert marksman and at least competent in martial arts. Ground forces learn weapons, but don't need unarmed combat skills. It smells like some sort of Secret Agent training (or something like what Zoe learned in the military).

2. Book does get dropped off at "Bathgate Abbey" in Ariel.

CRAZYIVAN

Tuesday, April 13, 2004 8:25 PM

As a clergy person myself, I have always felt in my gut that Book was no Shepard. I just bought the DVDs, never caught the show on TV, and haven't listened to any of the commentaries, or watched any of the final DVD in the set. I've only watched the other shows once, and lost a lot of sleep to get them all in in one night-- but in my heart, Book is not a man of the cloth. Inara is the pastor on the ship, Book is the (pardon Stark Trek Deep Space Nine reference) "Garak"-- the "tailor" who has secrets from his service in the Obsidian Order. My only beef with what Joss has done with Book is that too much was revealed too soon. Of course he was under pressure from Fox execs to make things more interesting and he had to rush things along; I would have prefered to have these interesting tidbits about Book revealed over a much longer span of time. I certainly hope Joss doesn't give it away in the first movie.

KARENKAY99

Tuesday, April 13, 2004 9:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Malicious:

1st: Simon "I would be there right now..."

2nd: Jayne: "I got stupid. The money was too good." (Does this sound familiar? Did Jayne say this to Mal when Mal put him in the airlock? Or maybe when Simon finally realizes it was Jayne who turned them in and threatens him?)

Yep, exact quote from jayne in ariel said in the past. Simon's exact quote was said in future.
The others quotes were not seen so we don't know if they were said in past or future.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

HPJC

Tuesday, April 20, 2004 6:46 AM

Just wanted to add my thoughts to the mix here. I re-watched the pilot, "Serenity" and noticed a few things about Book. Near the end, when he's talking with Inara about being on the wrong ship, he asks "Is this what life is... out here?" which leads me to believe that while Book may be trained in combat and have a lot of knowledge, I don't think he's actually ever seen combat or really been out in the world.

Possibly, he comes from a very rich, very powerful family that has ties to the Alliance. Perhaps his father was part of the military, possibly a high ranking official, and Book had a 'military' upbringing without much actual field experience.

It could be that he believed that the Alliance was 'good' and his father and the military were helping the people and was an active supporter of the alliance, believing that he was actually helping people, though in reality was hurting more of those who were less fortunate part of society. I believe that he may have ended up getting a bunch of people killed, without realizing what was going to happen. Realizing that his good deeds have been harming people, he heads off on his own to try and find redemption and meaning, turning to God and the abbey.

Hence, when River sees him say "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?", it is something that he is worrying about, but has 'pushed' out of his mind. He was doing wrong, but under the belief that it was good, so he could be considered innocent, yet, that really doesn't matter as he still committed evil and he doesn't really know where he stands with his redemption.

Not sure if that all makes sense in my post, but I can assure you that it makes sense in my head!

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Friday, April 23, 2004 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard. Looked to me like he boarded before Simon though, so I don't think he's after the Tam's in particular. I'm not even sure he's working for the Alliance either, although his name is known to them - whatever his name is on his ident card. Just because he's "called Book" doesn't mean that's his real name, now does it?

I would say there is probably a 75% chance that Book is not the Shepherd's real name. If Book's religion is some distant form of catholicism which i believe it is then it would make sense that Book was not the name he was given at birth. It is very very common for those who become priests, monks, or nuns to change their names or at least add on to them. This signifies their new life in their faith with a new name and everything.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Friday, April 23, 2004 12:39 AM

What if Shepherd's comment that River reads is something that somebody said to HIM in the past? Maybe he was framed for something and that was something the acting officer said to him because he was up against the wall and needed to have somebody to point a finger at for the crime.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"Here's to Jayne, the man-ape-gone-wrong-thing"
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

MORDRAIG

Friday, April 23, 2004 1:50 AM

I distinctly get the impression that the quote is Book's. I think River was getting the most prevading thoughts on the minds of each person. What it is they think about all the time in mental down cycles.

As to Book's ID. I have to go with Military Intelligence. I think Blue Sun has overstepped their bounds with the experimentation but the government is in the dark or feels unable to respond to them for whatever reason.

I think Book was key in arranging Rivers break out, and is following her to observe and retriever her for the military. I don't think she gets alot of reads off of him because of his MI training, being soo in character that you think along the lines of the part to be able to resist even drugged interrorgation.

Where he stands now in relation to his job now is a bit more fuzzy. After receiving med help and waking back up on Serinity he says "Good to be home" I think he is struggling with the act (preacher), what he observes about the crew and River, and his real objectives.

This being the case, the "Half a Hump" comment could be what he is thinking about telling Jayne when he confronts him. Having learned about Jayne's sellout of Simon and River on Ariel from channels while aboard the Alliance cruiser he is angry that Jayne almost screwed up the Military plan to get River away from Blue Sun.

BRITCHICK

Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:58 AM

Going through some of these posts about River's reading people made me re-think what might have happened here.

I wonder if River was suffering from a bit of paranoia (if you can suffer "a bit" of it!).

She was very upset in that episode, and she seemed to end up believing that no one wanted her. So it seemed to me that the thoughts she picked up were interpreted (by her) to be thoughts against her (when they may have beenjust out-of-context thoughts, as mentioned earlier in this thread).

For example: Simon's apparent regret which looked like he was blaming River. Simon does not really regret what he did to save her, but it may be River feels very guilty about it and therefore inteprets some of his comments to be reinforcing her guilt.

ANd similarly with Book. He may have been talking about himself, about Jayne, or someone from his past... but River interprets it in such a way as to reiinforce her feeling that they don't want her.

ANyway, just a thought :))

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JALEN

Saturday, June 26, 2004 6:28 AM

Book is old intel... Run the list....
early recognizes him....he isn't a shepherd.
he is good with martial arts.
he has a vast knowledge of ships (knows about the extenders on the aught three firefly)
He knows about various crime lords and crime operations.
He has alliance ties that grant special privileges.

He's either Intelligence Alliance, or a war hero who in the eyes of an independent would be a mass killer.

River only read the minds of things that were spoken by that particular individual.
Jayne, I was stupid, the money was too good (said that to mal in Ariel)
Simon, I could be there right now (told that to Kaylee in the episode with Early.
inara and malcolm, it's possible taht those quotes of their's were from future episodes that never saw the ilght of day.

Shepherd has ties with a lot of people, and if early knows him (obviously alliance special forces training).. he is an alliance covert operation specialist... either a deep sleeper or got fed up.

Alfonso

THEZOOMZOOMKID

Monday, June 28, 2004 4:22 AM

I personaly belive that Book was a pretty high up alliance General who, after the war, realised what he has done and wants to make amends. He first becomes a precher, then tries to help out one of the people he hurt the most by winning the war, Mal.

FEMALEJAYNE

Monday, July 5, 2004 3:12 PM

I don't think Mal wants to be alone. I think he enjoys taking care of his crew, but he may feel that he is all they have. Maybe he is trying to make up for the loss of his troops... Anyway I think being free of everyone would create a prison for Mal.

With Hope because love is nothing without hope.

BOOKSWORD

Tuesday, July 6, 2004 8:29 PM

I have a feeling that he really is a Shepard.
( Either that or Ron Glass has blinded me with his remarkable acting chops)
Early said that Book was no Shepard he sounded kind of snide so my theory is that he was sneering at Books attempt to be one. Meaning I suppose that he knew what he was before.
Speaking of which what do we know

1- Is an intellectual
Which speaks of either higher education on par or supressing Simon or Intelligence
2- He is formidable combatant on par with Zoe at least which could indicate a military past
3- He is a people person, he talks quite a bit with Jayne who either tolerates him or likes him and besides Mal who for obvious reasons doesnt like him via religous connections. Most of the crew either trust or respect him to some degree.
4- He knows the inner running of the criminal world and has indepth knowledge of firefly craft as well as other ' talents'
So heres my thorey.

I think he is the Delann character of Firefly.

I think there was a council of war in the early begining of the Alliance\Independents war when they where discussing actions and proberly some Independent moderate with a clear head offered to hold some peace talks.
There was proberly votes and it was a tie and it was up to him.
But the man that he was was an arrogant man. Intelligent , high bred and going places, ambitous he saw the war as a stepping stone.
Proberly trained while young to be strong, faster, smarter and better he thought the independents as rabble who didnt know their place.
So he voted for war.
He was proberly a brilliant tactician maybe even a personal advisor to Yu Kwan maybe even an counter intelligence co-ordinator.
Maybe his intelligence helped win a key battle in the unification war - maybe the Serenity battle itself which helped turn the tide.
So picture this he goes to the valley and then he sees the real price of his actions, the wounded and the dead, and then he breaks down and has an epipheny at his own worth.
Perhaps there where fireflys being used to helped the wounded and in a numb state he removes his uniform to help the wounded and just walks away from his command and position.
Ferrying a ride with the wounded to another place and he just wandered from place to place numb by guilt till he got to the abbey.
High command cant say hes awol so hes ID is still Valid. Also they proberly teach some of his tactics at Achdemy or something.
Also as head of Counter intelligence he has instant access to all types of knowledge including the underworld.
But while he tries to make himself a new man part of him is still the cold, ruthless, tactician that River saw in Objects in space.
Maybe thats why Book says that he is no Shepard. Maybe hes not a Shepard yet.
But thats why he went into space. It was easy for him to think he changed in the Abbey, he had to see how much of that cold man was left. So he went out into the universe he helped create.

CLOVIS

Wednesday, July 7, 2004 8:18 PM

As people have said above, I think Book was an Alliance officer and that he was the officer that won the battle of Serenity Valley. It's possible that he's on some sort of sabbatical leave, or that, at least, he left the Alliance in their good books (hence the medical help, which I doubt he would have got if he were AWOL from his Alliance post). In any case, he left because he learnt about the Blue Sun experiments and couldn't stomach them. Perhaps he had a part in setting them up, then became disillusioned and revolted, hence the quest for some sort of spiritual renewal. I think he really is a shepherd now and Early was only seeing Book's past.

Or. His distress in Inara's cabin at having got on the 'wrong ship', may have come from a conflict between his desire for peace and him still being linked somehow (perhaps in an undercover role) to the Alliance and Blue Sun. If that was the case, he'd know all about River and Simon. But then, if he is undercover and doesn't tell the Alliance about River and Simon and the Alliance discover he's been on the same ship as them all this time - it looks bad for Book. He's either a spy who's keeping tabs on them, or he genuinely is a shepherd, having left the Alliance legitimately.

Book's distress in Inara's cabin, which, by the way, I always find utterly heart wrenching, also sort of upholds the idea of him being the officer that won Serenity. His distress could come from guilt, and Inara's comment 'perhaps you're exactly where you ought to be', could have more meaning than just, 'these people need a shepherd'. Book's time on Serenity could be a form of atonement for him.

JAYNESADDICTION

Thursday, July 22, 2004 9:12 PM

I agree book is alliance, however I wonder how stable the alliance is. The Blus Sun Corporation (the ones who most likely screwed up river) play a major role in the Alliance so My thought is that Book is alliance millitary (possibly even a hero of the battle of Serenity) and that he may be working a deep cover op trying to expose the Blue Sun Corp. The Simon/River incident is a perfect way to expose the Blue Sun's evils. I know I'm ignoring the logic that Book came on the ship first, however with his abilities to read people maybe he figured that Serenity was Simon's only way off Persephone.

RATNUT12

Tuesday, July 27, 2004 2:22 AM

Just noticed something after watching the Serenity pilot for the umpteenth time that hasn't been directly mentioned in this thread. When Book is talking to Kaylee before deciding to board Serenity he mentioned that he used to fly in a Firefly class ship some time ago. Given that the alliance looks down at fireflies and some believe they are the favorite vehicle of choice for smugglers, it's quite possible that Book was a smuggler type sometime in his past. It would answer alot of the previous posts' questions in regard to how he learned to fight, why he knows about other criminals and why he seems as smart as Mal when it comes to figuring out who or what the scam is. Now perhaps he later went on to join the alliance brass or perhaps he was a freelance smuggler who came across Independents war plans and passed them on to the Alliance(for a price, of course) and that could explain his good graces with the Alliance and could also explain his later guilt and religious conversion.
Now that's alot to chew from just one line in the pilot, but the pilot is all about exposition and backstory.

PURPLEBELLY

Tuesday, July 27, 2004 7:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jaynesaddiction:
I know I'm ignoring the logic that Book came on the ship first

I agree with your analysis. My take is that Book was directed by his True Alliance cell to Serenity who knew that Simon was shipping out of Persephone on her. We don't know the mechanism or exact timing, but don't need to.

SUPERFLY

Wednesday, July 28, 2004 4:49 AM

Well, this thread’s pretty long, but I’ll throw my hat into the ring.

I think Book is exactly what he says he is. He’s a Shepard. There are too many pieces of
evidence throughout the series to mention here, but some are 1. His encounter with River and the
Bible not only seemed honest, but there was no reason for it not to be. 2. He warned Mal about
going to the special hell if he took sexual advantage of “Saffron.” 3. He was taken aback and uncomfortable when first faced with Inara’s profession. Etc etc.

But, I think it’s safe to say that he has not always been a Shepard. Again, too many pieces of
evidence to mention. ... just a few.. 1. Can make the caliber and model of a gun by seeing the
bullet wound. 2. Is obviously highly trained and experienced in martial arts. 3. River saw some
things in Objects in space that happened in the past.... In Book’s past, we see he had no mercy for
the innocent. Etc. Etc.

So, my conclusion is that Book was an Alliance assassin... Black Ops, if you will, trusted with and given clearance for the highest priority missions where secrecy, stealth, and murder were needed. And he probably fit the bill too. Highly skilled, cold-blooded, willing and able. At some point in his career, something had an impact on him. He found religion, left the profession, and sequestered himself away in an Abby. I don’t think he has a lot of active guilt. I think he has, in Christian terms, been born again, all of his sins washed away.

Of course, even if I’m right, I just wanna know what arrow was so thin it actually hit whatever
conscience he had. Was it a job, a mark he walked away from? Why? Who? Did they let him go willingly? Or did he have to flee or fight his way out?

So, um... that’s what I think.

EDIT: awwwww stupid word processing program with its invaluable spellcheck. Sorry for the format.

CF

Friday, August 6, 2004 8:52 AM

Hi all!
Just got through watching the fantastic DVD set (OK watching for the third time! )
Thought I'd jump in on this thread.
Thing that I noticed in Objects in Space that caught my eye.
When the crew are all sitting round the table discussing River, and Mal says (something like) "I think its more than intuition, I think she's a reader. Am I alone in this?"
Book immediately (and quite solemly says "No".
The rest especially Wash dismiss it as "sci-fi" (love that bit).
Only Book seems to take this seriously.

BRUISERSMOM

Tuesday, August 10, 2004 5:39 PM

The special room in hell may not be part of the Bible but may be from other literature and has seeped out into American culture because I've heard people use that phrase before it was used in Firefly. I don't know the exact work of literature from which it springs but other works of literature have created multiple hells. One of these works is Dante'e Inferno, which has seven layers to hell, each layer progressively worse than previous one and the worse spot in hell being reserved for Judas who spends eternity in the devil's mouth. Also, if you watch Buffy and Angel, there are many hells and demon dimensions made up there.

Something a lot of people haven't mentioned is in the Message Book knew that the cop was out of his jurisdiction and was able to fight this cop's attempts at bullying the Serenity crew into handing over Mal and Zoe's old comrade by pointing out that he was way out of his jurisdiction and didn't alert the local federal police post, so the cop was not on official Alliance business. Brook would have to know something of police work to know these things and no one else on Serenity thought of it.

VETERAN

Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:12 AM

Quote:
Book knew that the cop was out of his jurisdiction and was able to fight this cop's attempts at bullying the Serenity crew into handing over Mal and Zoe's old comrade by pointing out that he was way out of his jurisdiction and didn't alert the local federal police post, so the cop was not on official Alliance business. Brook would have to know something of police work to know these things and no one else on Serenity thought of it.

Yep. It think is a big clue to Book's life before he became a Shepard. Someone else compared Book to Brother Cadefael.

CHARKI127

Friday, September 17, 2004 6:36 AM

"Of COURSE he was a cop.

Just checkout the TV Land network and see "Barney Miller"!

Mystery solved... "

I try not to post late at night for obvious reasons, but 11thHour your timing was perfect. Still smiling. charki

11THHOUR

Saturday, September 18, 2004 7:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charki127:
I try not to post late at night for obvious reasons, but 11thHour your timing was perfect. Still smiling. charki

Whoa... blast from the past post!

Nice to see the joke still works all these months later.

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Doing the impossible makes us mighty... happy."

CHARKI127

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 3:08 AM

Well I am a Newbie in every way. I just watched the Firefly series on DVD and just joined this group. Which, by the by, is fantastic.

THEREALME

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 5:03 AM

So is this group fantastic, or is the series?

Or both?

Welcome!

The Real Me

CHARKI127

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 5:49 AM

Both! And thanks. charki

11THHOUR

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by charki127:
Well I am a Newbie in every way. I just watched the Firefly series on DVD and just joined this group. Which, by the by, is fantastic.

Welcome to you, Newbie in every way...

So glad you found both the Firefly DVD and this shiny site of Firefly goodness... and you're right about the fantastic part...

You probably have already found some of the other great Firefly websites, but here's a short list of some of the cool ones:

Firefly Message Board:
http://forums.prospero.com/foxfirefly

Official Universal Studios Serenity movie site:
http://www.serenitymovie.com

Browncoats fan website:
http://www.browncoats.com

Very Spiffy Fan Website for Serenity movie:
http://www.serenitymovie.net

A lil' ol' web page with some posters on it:
http://the11thhour.home.att.net

Again, welcome to this corner of the 'verse!

11th Hour

________________________________________________

"Doing the impossible makes us mighty... happy."

BOOKSWORD

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:06 PM

Being in New Zealand we wont get the movie a long while yet.

I wonder, if the movie does come out would fans perfer a final revalation or prefer to be teased about the Good Shepards past ?

CHARKI127

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:30 PM

Wow THANKS 11thHour!! I had the Serenity movie site but not the others. This will help occupy my time until April. charki

11THHOUR

Friday, September 24, 2004 1:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Booksword:
Being in New Zealand we wont get the movie a long while yet.

I wonder, if the movie does come out would fans perfer a final revalation or prefer to be teased about the Good Shepards past ?

Just a guess, but I see Joss giving us some juicy info to answer some of the questions... but taking his time revealing all the tales to tell with our mysterious, and deep water, Shepherd Book.

I'm just going to go with the faith that Serenity will do very well, and we'll get the full trilogy. Joss has huge faith in Firefly so most likely he will be "rationing" the mysteries along the way so as to give us a little... but always have plenty more to surprise us with...

I know that's the way I'd like to have the stories unfold.

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Doing the impossible makes us mighty... happy."

11THHOUR

Friday, September 24, 2004 1:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by charki127:
Wow THANKS 11thHour!! I had the Serenity movie site but not the others. This will help occupy my time until April. charki

You're most welcome... and you're right, these forums are a great way to keep the Firefly fires burning while we make our way to MOVIE TIME! Yay!!

11thHour

________________________________________________

"Doing the impossible makes us mighty... happy."

THECREEPER

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 1:02 PM

Hi gang:
A new guy here. I have absolutely nothing to back up my guess, but here goes: Book was a high ranking military man who believed that the ends justified the means. This idealism did pretty well for him until he got some bad intel. He and his soldiers stormed into what was supposed to be a base of Independant terrorists and turned out to be nothing more than a school or hospital for children. The sight of all the dead kids was more than his icy heart could take. He forsook his previous life for that of a shepard where he would never have to face death like that again. He did his stint in the abbey and then went to spread the word of the lord to others. He saw Serinity and saw it as a sign from above (Serenity Valley and all). That's my take, your mileage may vary

JASMOM

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:11 PM

I recenetly watched all the Firefly episodes for the first time on the DVDs. I'm a huge Buffy/Angel fan and I think that this is a great show as well! After watching the pilot "Serenity" I immediately thought of Book as being like Andrew Wiggin from Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game" and "Speaker for the Dead." I believe he is someone who was trained possibly from a very young age, as a fighter - maybe even picked out, as River was, by an earlier version of the "Academy." I think that he played their "game" until he became disillusioned and bitter. I like the idea that some of you have put forth that he was in charge of the battle of Serenity Valley, and saw all the death it caused and decided to change his life and become a Shepard. Like Andrew Wiggin became a "Speaker for the Dead" after his fighting years, and saw his "enemies" in a new light. I think that his former position allowed him access to quick medical attention, or that he has family in high places.