So what's shut down for you?
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, October 10, 2013 23:48
VIEWED: 11001
PAGE 1 of 2
Here in DMV (District, Maryland, Virginia) the National Monuments and Parks and Smithsonian are closed, the Panda Cam at the National Zoo is turned off(and the Zoo closed), the boathouses on the Potomac river that local high school and college rowing teams use are shut down (although they are privately owned, they are on land leased from the Park Service, and the Park Service won't grant the lesees access.) Lots of non-essential Federal employees are furloughed.
Interestingly, the D.C. City government, also Federally funded, is going full blast, since Mayor Grey declared all city employees essential. So you can still get a parking ticket in the District, and it's just as likely to be incorrect as always.
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Let's see...who was it here who was adamant that the Republicans WOULDN'T shut down the government...??
This is so disgusting, I don't know when the American people are going to have had enough of this childishness...so many innocent people affected and they don't give a flying SHIT!
And for absolutely NOTHING...Obamacare started today, just like they knew it would...but so much else DIDN'T. Totally insane.
My stepson lives out Jackson Hole way, does a lot of hiking in Yellowstone. His vacation starts today, he can't even go hiking 'cuz Yellowstone is closed. People have to reserve visits to Yosemite over a YEAR in advance, but of course Yosemite's closed. Over five THOUSAND tourists a day go out to The Rock, but Alcatraz is closed and since most people buy their tickets on line, they're not sure how to get their money back...and those are just the UNIMPORTANT, recreational aspects...
Makes me sick. They'll have to throw in the towel, even they know it, it's just a matter of how long they want to fuck us all over before they do, so they can make their "statement". Absolutely unconscionable. "Representatives" my fucking ASS!
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Quote:
Geezer: So what's shut down for you?
I choose to interpret this as what does shut down mean to me. In answer:
I think... All of us should have a barbeque.
You can put corn still in the husk on a grill. Give it five minutes, turning over occasionally, and then you have some tasty corn that has the subtle smokey flavour of the outdoors and charcoal.
All the meat eaters can just go to TOWN. Have some fun, get sauce everywhere, delicious carmelized sauce on once living protein. And then hamburger buns.
Drinkers can get the hootch up ins. Apple cider will be provided for the non-drinkers.
And then, as we eat and make merry, we can envision that we are munching on, slicing and serving up, the party system and laws we don't like.
That's what I think.
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It's the shut down no one cares about, unless your a lazy government worker or were planing on taking a dump in the park.
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I like how the crowd of WW2 Veterans said 'screw you, Obama ! ' and crossed the roped off 'closed' areas of the WW2 Memorial anyways.
You can shut down the WH, Barry, but you can't keep Americans from THEIR monuments! 
Good job, Vets!!!
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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You'll have to cite where they SAID "Screw you, Obama" to be taken seriously, because I doubt that's what happened. Obama didn't shut down the government; the Republicans' refusal to pass a budget did. Nobody else is refusing to pass the budget, and the LAW required the government to shut down if they didn't pass one. Obama hasn't got a damned thing to do with it, it's Congress and the Senate, you poor addled fool.
Here, given you get your "information" from FauxNews and we know people who do are more ignorant than others, try to understand the following. The budget process is as follows:
1.The President of the United States submits a budget proposal to Congress.
2.Both houses review the proposal, and develop budget resolutions of their own.
3.The resolutions are “marked up” in the appropriations subcommittees.
4.The House and Senate vote on the final versions of their respective bills, and go to conference committee to hammer out their differences, at which point the reconciled versions go to the floor of each house for a final vote.
5.The president signs the reconciled versions, and the budget becomes law.
The first three and half steps of the process happened as they should have. The second half of step three, which is the conference committee, didn’t take place. Here is where GOP, or rather, Tea Party stubbornness, came into play. When the time came to go to conference, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA), the chairs of their respective budget committees, sat down to discuss a framework for such a conference.
Sen. Pat Toomey (R-PA), speaking on behalf of Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), objected to forming such a committee because neither of them saw a successful outcome of such a committee.
A conference committee is usually approved unanimously by the Senate, is made up of people from both houses, and is used to reconcile differences in legislation that both houses have passed. Such committees are temporary, and once reconciliation is achieved, are disbanded.
Between April 23 and July 1, Senate Democrats asked for consent to go to conference on the budget resolutions 15 times, and were shot down by Senate Republicans 15 times, for the following reasons:
-- They wanted a framework for how the conference would work.
-- They wanted a guarantee that the budget would not be used to raise the debt ceiling.
-- They wanted a guarantee of protection from tax hikes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans.
-- Some of them wanted to debate the resolution again.
-- They wanted an agreement on a 30-year budget outlook.
Notice that not one of these reasons has to do with the ACA. What’s truly odd is that Sen. Sessions and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), two of the Republicans that blocked various conference requests, asked for a conference prior to passing the resolution. They knew the process, and then backed away from it early on, and dug their heels in with subsequent requests. Other Tea Party senators, including Ted Cruz and Mike Lee (R-UT), also blocked requests.
On Sept. 29, Sen. Paul asked why they weren’t going to a conference on this on CBS’s “Face the Nation,” and the above was then explained by Sen. Durbin (D-IL). Paul is also among the senators who blocked conference requests earlier this year.
The ACA appears central to the reasons for a shutdown now, but is actually a red herring being used for the purpose of assigning blame. This whole thing started 5 months ago when the GOP began refusing to even attempt reconciliation of the budgets. To determine who is responsible for this, one needs to look at the last five months, and ignore the childish “they started it” arguments with respect to the ACA. The Tea Party wing of the GOP is, in fact, responsible for our current crisis. They are the ones who refused to negotiate.
That's it, in a nutshell, and I could offer links to each part of it, exc
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The Shut Down is totally selfish on the part of Congress, or rather, on the part of those 30-40 knuckleheads appeasing their base. Plus Boehner, what a wimp!
It is the two H's - Hubris and Hypocrisy.
They must know that this latest salvo wouldn't affect Obamacare. It is pure and utter political posturing in prep for the mid-term elections and beyond.
These guys need to show their base that they're in it to disrupt and destroy POTUS' reputation.
What I would like to know is why they haven't attempted to impeach Obama. They have it within their power to do so. Think about that for a moment. If the president is illegitimate, as they and their base say, then they have grounds for impeachment. Don't they?
This is about Obamacare (or so they say) and they have tried to repeal it over 40 times without any success. So they decide to hold a gun to our collective heads. They close down the government in hopes of forcing the president to repeal or change the law he based his campaign on. A law that was implemented in Massachusetts by Romney (but for some reason he claimed was not good for the rest of us in this country), a law that passed both houses (as part of the democratic process) and deemed Constitutional (which Tea Party people claim is their guiding light). Face it folks, we are being held up by our own government. This is a shakedown; the Mob must be grinning from ear to ear.
What's wrong with this picture?
Is this America? What happened to the democratic process that I once read about in my history class? Is Teddy all upset that he couldn't win and he's taking his ball home? What ever happened to fair play?
I wasn't happy when Bush won the general election, but I didn't see the Dems pack up their ball and glove and go home. I didn't them see throw a tantrum and hold their breath, or hold the country hostage to force our troops to come home from Iraq.
What does Shut Down mean to me: It means strategic bullshit and stupidity.
Long Live the United States of America/Real Americans don't try to destroy Democracy
SGG
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to Lose
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Quote:LOL, since when is refusing to negotiate with terrorists a fault?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
'screw you, Obama ! '
Your bullshit is so predictable, so tired & Nazi-like.
Heil Fox!
(raise your hand, Rappy)
To answer the actual question, Curiosity was turned off!!! How much does THAT suck???
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You have that ass backwards.
It's Congress who hold the purse strings there buddy. It was their idea to shut down government and, in my mind, it seems they kind of forgot about the impact their decision would have on the vets (well, that goes across the board).
From what I understand the vets broke through the barricades and exercised their right as vets to visit the memorial, and only after did the idiots show up to hypocritically take advantage of photo-ops. What gall! What hubris! What a bunch of maroons!
What nerve. They shut it down, then have the nerve to point fingers in the direction of the president who repeatedly advise them to do their constitutionally appointed job.
But since blaming Obama for everything but the Lindberg baby kidnapping is the norm of the day..........what else is new!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I like how the crowd of WW2 Veterans said 'screw you, Obama ! ' and crossed the roped off 'closed' areas of the WW2 Memorial anyways.
You can shut down the WH, Barry, but you can't keep Americans from THEIR monuments!
Good job, Vets!!!
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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That's right! Give 'em Hell Niki!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Let's see...who was it here who was adamant that the Republicans WOULDN'T shut down the government...??
This is so disgusting, I don't know when the American people are going to have had enough of this childishness...so many innocent people affected and they don't give a flying SHIT!
And for absolutely NOTHING...Obamacare started today, just like they knew it would...but so much else DIDN'T. Totally insane.
My stepson lives out Jackson Hole way, does a lot of hiking in Yellowstone. His vacation starts today, he can't even go hiking 'cuz Yellowstone is closed. People have to reserve visits to Yosemite over a YEAR in advance, but of course Yosemite's closed. Over five THOUSAND tourists a day go out to The Rock, but Alcatraz is closed and since most people buy their tickets on line, they're not sure how to get their money back...and those are just the UNIMPORTANT, recreational aspects...
Makes me sick. They'll have to throw in the towel, even they know it, it's just a matter of how long they want to fuck us all over before they do, so they can make their "statement". Absolutely unconscionable. "Representatives" my fucking ASS!
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Since we're thinking along those lines, here's a thought.......
We can buy guns online and in the gun shows, go to our local gun manufacturers and start blasting..........whaddaya say! Who's game!
Isn't it ironical!!!!!
;-)
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Geezer: So what's shut down for you?
I choose to interpret this as what does shut down mean to me. In answer:
I think... All of us should have a barbeque.
You can put corn still in the husk on a grill. Give it five minutes, turning over occasionally, and then you have some tasty corn that has the subtle smokey flavour of the outdoors and charcoal.
All the meat eaters can just go to TOWN. Have some fun, get sauce everywhere, delicious carmelized sauce on once living protein. And then hamburger buns.
Drinkers can get the hootch up ins. Apple cider will be provided for the non-drinkers.
And then, as we eat and make merry, we can envision that we are munching on, slicing and serving up, the party system and laws we don't like.
That's what I think.
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You do realize of course that the government shutdown didn't affect NSA surveillance. And that anything we post here is preserved by various means/waybackmachines and etc.
Thanks for painting me with that brush when all I'm saying is that if Occupy Wall Street wants to do something peacefully, maybe they should try Occupy Freaking Congress. This is a golden opportunity to affect change you know.
I seem to remember people being impressed with the crowd support when some lady in Texas did a fillibuster not too long ago. The public as a whole CAN make a difference, and not only on voting day.
But no, I guess I'm just another dangerous idiot with an itchy finger and a lead thrower fetish just because I'm not having panic attacks about what's happening.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
You'll have to cite where they SAID "Screw you, Obama" to be taken seriously, because I doubt that's what happened. Obama didn't shut down the government; the Republicans' refusal to pass a budget did. Nobody else is refusing to pass the budget, and the LAW required the government to shut down if they didn't pass one. Obama hasn't got a damned thing to do with it, it's Congress and the Senate, you poor addled fool.
While the Republicans sending up a budget the Democrats will not agree with may defund the government, it's the Executive branch that decides what government functions are essential, and what will be cut. As usual, these cuts are the ones that will get the most publicity. Don't think that the Republicans are the only ones playing politics here.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Wouldn't it be just a hoot if Ted Cruz's house gets bombed and the FBI aren't available to investigate......
Or the WWII vets beat the shit out of Michele Bachmann with their canes, now that would be funny.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:LOL, since when is refusing to negotiate with terrorists a fault?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
'screw you, Obama ! '
Your bullshit is so predictable, so tired & Nazi-like.
Heil Fox!
(raise your hand, Rappy)
To answer the actual question, Curiosity was turned off!!! How much does THAT suck???
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Quote:Thanks for the phoney objective view, Geez.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Don't think that the Republicans are the only ones playing politics here.
I dislike Democrats too, but they didn't engineer this hostile takeover attempt.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Thanks for the phoney objective view, Geez.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Don't think that the Republicans are the only ones playing politics here.
I dislike Democrats too, but they didn't engineer this hostile takeover attempt.
Didn't say they did.
However, they're playing it for all its worth - shutting down the parts of government that will have the most visible impact and garner the most news reports.
C'mon, Chris. You know that the Democrats wanted this shutdown as much as the Tea Partiers.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
You have that ass backwards.
Actually, I don't. Y'all do.
The order to barricade the WW 2 Memorial came down to the US Parks Service from the Office of Management and Budget. They get their orders directly from where ?
Congress ? Nope
The White House.
This is entirely Obama's doing.
( Same goes for shutting down the WH, and giving the sequestration as an excuse )
At no other time in the 17 Govt shut downs ( or slim downs, as Andrea Taranto calls 'em ) have any open air memorials been blocked or closed off.
There ARE no working staff at these facilities, and they are to remain open 24/7.
it's actually costing the govt MORE money to rent barricades and staff guards on these locations, which ordinarily run on next to no staff, save for maintenance.
Deal w/ the facts
Quote:
Wouldn't it be just a hoot if Ted Cruz's house gets bombed and the FBI aren't available to investigate......
Why would that be a " hoot ", if a US Senator's home got bombed ? Would you laugh as much if Obama's, or Harry Reid's house were bombed ? Oh, not so much a " hoot " then, is it ?
Either way, the appropriate law enforcement resources would still be on the case. Your lack of understanding on such matters is embarrassing.
Quote:
Or the WWII vets beat the shit out of Michele Bachmann with their canes, now that would be funny.
SGG
Michelle Bachmann is one of the Senators fighting for their right to VISIT the W W 2 Memorial in the first place. Were it not for her, and others, they'd have traveled across the country only to be turned away at THEIR Memorial. Turned away by Barrack Hussein Obama, and no one else.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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None of which has anything to do with the issue at hand, which is passing the budget, which is what caused anything to be shut down. That's been engineered for months by the Republicans, despite Rap's complete unwillingness to read.
WHAT is shut down isn't the issue; that anything HAD to be shut down is. And it was Rap would was adamant just a little while ago that the Republicans WOULD NOT shut it down. Wanna get back to that one?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
None of which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is passing the budget, which is what caused anything to be shut down. That's been engineered for months by the Republicans, despite Rap's complete unwillingness to read.
God dammit Niki, it has EVERY thing to do w/ the issue at hand. You're ignoring my post, what i said, and the FACT that Obama himself is doing all this, just to make the shut down as painful as possible.
HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE VETERANS ! It was Michelle and others who are keeping the WW2 Memorial OPEN for the Vets, and trying to remove the barricades OBAMA HIS OWN DAMN SELF PUT THERE!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!
And its Obama who is doing this. Entirely. The GOP has passed a budget. That's what Congress does. Obama refuses to even meet with them to discuss the issue. He's a thug and a punk and a rank amateur.
Quote:
WHAT is shut down isn't the issue; that anything HAD to be shut down is. And it was Rap would was adamant just a little while ago that the Republicans WOULD NOT shut it down. Wanna get back to that one?
>
Learn to read, Niki.
Thread title : " So what's shut down for you ? "
The GOP has NOT shut down anything. Nothing to get back to. But thanks for playing.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Don't think that the Republicans are the only ones playing politics here.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
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Good one, gramps!
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
None of which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, which is passing the budget, which is what caused anything to be shut down. That's been engineered for months by the Republicans, despite Rap's complete unwillingness to read.
God dammit Niki, it has EVERY thing to do w/ the issue at hand. You're ignoring my post, what i said, and the FACT that Obama himself is doing all this, just to make the shut down as painful as possible.
HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE VETERANS ! It was Michelle and others who are keeping the WW2 Memorial OPEN for the Vets, and trying to remove the barricades OBAMA HIS OWN DAMN SELF PUT THERE!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!
And its Obama who is doing this. Entirely. The GOP has passed a budget. That's what Congress does. Obama refuses to even meet with them to discuss the issue. He's a thug and a punk and a rank amateur.Quote:
WHAT is shut down isn't the issue; that anything HAD to be shut down is. And it was Rap would was adamant just a little while ago that the Republicans WOULD NOT shut it down. Wanna get back to that one?
>
Learn to read, Niki.
Thread title : " So what's shut down for you ? "
The GOP has NOT shut down anything. Nothing to get back to. But thanks for playing.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
The poster child for the American Taliban, ladies and gents!
Give him a round of applauds! It takes talent to be that utterly fucking stupid!
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And its Obama who is doing this. Entirely. The GOP has passed a budget. That's what Congress does. Obama refuses to even meet with them to discuss the issue. He's a thug and a punk and a rank amateur.
The GOP has NOT shut down anything.
Emperor Ba'raq Hussein Obama, Dark Lord of the Sith, Master of the Sullied, Mother of Dragons ...
... demands no conditions to CR bill
... demands no conditions to raising debt ceiling
... demands Republicans obey his will unconditionally
Well, FUCK HIM and the Affirmative Action Kenyan zebra he rode in on.
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Yeah, pretty much Mark. Sad, tho', 'cuz there are just enough like him in just enough gerrymandered districts to put these assholes in office and keep them there.
OF COURSE both sides are playing politics, that's what politicians are about and they're assholes. Of course Obama's shutting down stuff that's visible--of course, also, the idea that maybe shutting down tourist attractions is better than shutting down, say, the FBI, doesn't occur to our righties.
But again, that does not address the basic fact of the shutdown itself, which was caused by the Republicans REFUSING TO ADOPT THE BUDGET. Any debate here on the issue would have to encompass the chronology I laid out, with links, because that is what happened, in detail, not what parts are shut down and what aren't. The simple fact is that a MINORITY of the House of Representatives worked for months to bring this to pass, it was well known, it was covered extensively by the media, it was discussed, intelligent Republicans were quite vocal against it, and Rap kept saying 'it won't happen'. The fact that Rap and others choose to buy the spin the GOP puts on it NOW is irrelevant; the fact that Obama (or whoever makes those decisions, somehow I don't think he pulls them out of thin air) chooses to shut down some things over other things is irrelevant. We don't know what the choices were, I have no doubt politics comes into it, but it doesn't change the ISSUE itself--or, by the way, the fact that, again, Rap was ADAMANT that the Republicans weren't going to shut down the government. Still waiting for him to deal with that one, but not holding my breath.
We ran across our first effects this morning...sulkied the dogs out on a favorite trail, got back to the car and discovered a sticker on the window that we were "parked illegally" (not a citation, just a notice)...it's where we've always parked, there are no "no parking" signs, etc. Turns out half of the trail is on GGNRA--Golden Gate National Recreation Area. We get there before sunrise so didn't see a couple of little wooden barricades at the entrance that had been pushed aside by someone. No problem, we can park just outside, but it made us realize that it means ALL of Pt. Reyes, Crissy Field, Rodeo Beach, Tennessee Valley, Fort Funston and more are closed. That's going to be a real mess over the weekend.
Fucking idiots. Willing to hold the whole country hostage to throw a hissy fit--PURE POLITICS, not anything to do with the good of the country or representing the American people./
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And if ANYONE doesn't realize Gohmert and Palin and their buddies are using the Vets for political reasons...well, everyone does, it's just useful spin for the right to now scream about some veterans not being able to visit a monument. Obama hates vets, eh? Then why have Republicans voted against so many veterans' benefits bills, things which would have REAL IMPACT on veterans' lives?
"GOP Senators Block Veterans Jobs Bill", http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/09/20/gop-senators-block-veter
ans-jobs-bill.html
"GOP blocks COLA on benefits for disabled veterans and survivors", http://www.examiner.com/article/gop-blocks-cola-on-benefits-for-disabl
ed-veterans-and-survivors
"GOP Voted Against 7 Bills to Help Veterans", http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/16/1091597/-GOP-Voted-Against-7-
Bills-to-Help-Veterans
"GOP demands benefits for the military be on chopping block", http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2011/09/19/gop-demands-benefits-for-the
-military-be-on-chopping-block/
"Republican Party ignores vets’ needs":Quote:
Since I was discharged from the Army in 1968, I have yet to see the GOP helping veterans, e.g., when in power the GOP fights increases in funding for the VA hospital system. The GOP has no problem sending our young men and women to war, but once they are beyond military service the GOP no longer has any use for ‘em and would prefer the veteran died so as not be a drain on the “system”.
The GOP likes to say they support the troops and veterans but their actions speak louder than words. When it comes to the veteran, the GOP is all talk and no action, unless that action is cutting veteran’s benefits.
The only time I see an increase in veteran benefits is when the Democrats are in power, so any veteran who votes GOP is simply shooting himself in the foot. http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/article_
9c95c34a-2584-11e2-80f1-001a4bcf887a.html]
"REPUBLICANS WANT TO PRIVATIZE VA HOSPITALS":Quote:
The Republicans unveiled their Pledge to America today but they kept secret a plan that is in the works to privatize Veteran Hospitals and make ALL veterans take out an insurance policy to go to a VA hospital. http://www.zimbio.com/US+Vets/articles/T_PAUH7Lw0O/REPUBLICANS+WANT+PR
IVATIZE+VA+HOSPITALS]
I detailed that plan to privatize the VA, with quotes from Republicans, back in 2010 at http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=45462, if anyone wants to see the details.
And on and on. Veterans are only useful to the GOP when it's time to wave the flag or utilize them for political purposes, period.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
God dammit Niki, it has EVERY thing to do w/ the issue at hand. You're ignoring my post, what i said, and the FACT that Obama himself is doing all this, just to make the shut down as painful as possible.
HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE VETERANS ! It was Michelle and others who are keeping the WW2 Memorial OPEN for the Vets, and trying to remove the barricades OBAMA HIS OWN DAMN SELF PUT THERE!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!
Uhhh...
While I'm not sold on the Democrats saying that it's ALL the Republicans fault - it does take two to tango, after all - you don't really think Obama is flying out in Airforce One to personally put up barriers to the national parks himself, cackling all the while.
I mean there are still SOME federal employees on the payroll, so menial labour jobs can be delegated. The President - and the other democrats - are too busy playing electric-fence-pissing-match chicken with the Republicans to personally shut down ALL the parks.
And none of them care about vets, or poor people, or jobs or the economy, only political capital and psychological warfare.
I'm just... Going to attribute that outburst to feeling provoked by the proximity of registered democrats. Don't let it get to you man.
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Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-TX), at the WWII Memorial for photo-ops, decided that he would use a National Park Ranger as a whipping post. The NPS has been allowing WWII Veterans to visit the memorial, even though it is technically closed. The Nation Park Rangers are doing this on a volunteer basis.
Neugebauer took exception to that fact, though he was directly responsible for it. He decided to vent his spleen on a female Park Service Ranger. Neugebauer said that the Park Service should “be ashamed.”
There was a crowd of people surrounding the brief exchange and most were definitely on the National Park Ranger’s side of the issue. One told Neugebauer to question the people who “aren’t passing the budget” about the closure. Then a man in a bicycle helmet addressed the Congressman:
“This woman is doing her job, just like me. I’m a 30-year federal veteran — I’m out of work.”
With no shame or irony (assuming he even knows what those are), Neugebauer tells the man that the reason he was out of work was because “Mr. Reid decided to shut down the government.” But the bicycle man wasn’t having any of that, saying that the shutdown was due to the government “not doing its job.”
It’s bad enough that the Republicans are holding us all hostage for.. well, they don’t really know why anymore. They just are. It’s bad enough that there are over 800,000 federal workers who are sitting at home and hoping the GOP will act like grown-ups. It’s bad enough that these National Park Rangers are basically volunteers right now. But for them to be blamed, by Congressmen or TV pundits, for the shitstorm the Republicans have stirred up is beyond galling.
Nah, they're not playing politics, no sirree bob! Talk about your cheap shots...she's VOLUNTEERING her time!
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The local National Parks are closed. On the way to work this morning I passed a deer sitting on the side of the road with a sign saying 'will frolic for food.' Very sad.
H
Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And its Obama who is doing this. Entirely. The GOP has passed a budget. That's what Congress does. Obama refuses to even meet with them to discuss the issue. He's a thug and a punk and a rank amateur.
The GOP has NOT shut down anything.
Emperor Ba'raq Hussein Obama, Dark Lord of the Sith, Master of the Sullied, Mother of Dragons ...
... demands no conditions to CR bill
... demands no conditions to raising debt ceiling
... demands Republicans obey his will unconditionally
Well, FUCK HIM and the Affirmative Action Kenyan zebra he rode in on.
Well, Ill give you this - if you're trying to usurp the "biggest moron" title from rappy - you're doing a damn fine job. Maybe you can be co-captains!
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
The poster child for the American Taliban, ladies and gents!
Give him a round of applauds! It takes talent to be that utterly fucking stupid!
Can't dispute anything I said, so you resort to juvenile name calling and scared mockery.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Uhhh...
While I'm not sold on the Democrats saying that it's ALL the Republicans fault - it does take two to tango, after all - you don't really think Obama is flying out in Airforce One to personally put up barriers to the national parks himself, cackling all the while.
Why should he ? The memorial is right in the neighborhood. And while Barry won't flinch to hop on AF-1 to take Michelle out on date night, I doubt he'd NEED to actually do any work himself on this matter, other than sending out a memo or making a phone called. ( Dialed by his secretary , of course )
Quote:
I mean there are still SOME federal employees on the payroll, so menial labour jobs can be delegated. The President - and the other democrats - are too busy playing electric-fence-pissing-match chicken with the Republicans to personally shut down ALL the parks.
Not only tried to shut down Federal parks, but private ones as well.
Quote:
And none of them care about vets, or poor people, or jobs or the economy, only political capital and psychological warfare.
I'm just... Going to attribute that outburst to feeling provoked by the proximity of registered democrats. Don't let it get to you man.
I'm tired of the games and b.s. the Left uses to try to tell everyone that these aren't the droids we're looking for.
These are EXACTLY the droids we're looking for. There ARE four lights, not the three they keep telling us we see.
There are differences of opinion, where one can be for TASTE GREAT, while others prefer LESS FILLING. This isn't one of those times.
Obama did this. THIS meaning closing off the WW2 Memorial ( as well as other selective acts ) purely for punishment and PR purposes.
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
Yet the usual suspects refuse to take off their Obama colored glasses long enough to even admit the most BASIC of truths. It's beyond childish , and I'm frelling sick of it.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
The Raptiod hath spoken.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
The Raptiod hath spoken.
Make me a liar then.
OMB is under what branch of govt ?
Executive.
Parks Services get their orders to close down monuments from OMB.
Where is what I'm saying false ?
Do tell.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:You stupid asshole, that's clearly impossible. Facts are like flies for you to swat. Do you seriously think I'd spend any spade time at all to 'enlighten' your brainwashed little hate-filled ass?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Make me a liar then.
Just read what Niki posts.
But you don't.
Cased closed (for you).
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The EPA and NIST are shut down.
We're working on a method which may eventually be applied nationally. It's a major advance over another method which has been used for 40 years. We're discussing it with industry and "other stakeholders" and we need to get approval from the EPA before we make some pretty major revsions.
Also, the NIST has our Protocol 1 Certification Cylinders, which we need to check our own calibration standards.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:You stupid asshole, that's clearly impossible.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Make me a liar then.
O.K. ya got me there. I don't lie.
But facts are facts. That you are incapable of proving me wrong only proves that you can't prove me wrong.
Go sniff some more glue, pal. You're too uptight for a Friday night.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That you are incapable of proving me wrong only proves that you can't prove me wrong.
The fact that you can type that shows how utterly devoid of logic and clear thinking you are.
And here I am, lured into yet another commentary on your pathetic lack of awareness...
My bad.
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Maybe I was wrong.
Maybe you've sniffed too MUCH model glue tonight.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Rappy is that that little kid with his fingers stuck in his ears saying "Nyah nyah nyah. I can't hear you" ... ESPECIALLY when when you're bringing up something he doesn't want to hear.
Is it possible for someone to be THAT brainwashed? Well, have you tried arguing with a young creationist or a flat-earther or a jihadist lately? The answer is... of course it's possible for someone's brain to be shrunken into a hard little turd. Difficult to fathom, but just think of rappy as a jihadist or a young creationist and let it go at that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Rappy is that that little kid with his fingers stuck in his ears saying "Nyah nyah nyah. I can't hear you" ... ESPECIALLY when when you're bringing up something he doesn't want to hear.
Is it possible for someone to be THAT brainwashed? Well, have you tried arguing with a young creationist or a flat-earther or a jihadist lately? The answer is... of course it's possible for someone's brain to be shrunken into a hard little turd. Difficult to fathom, but just think of rappy as a jihadist or a young creationist and let it go at that.
More empty insults, no substantive replies to comments made.
You are what you accuse others of being, Sig.
All you can do is prattle on about how dumb, stupid, brainwashed and mentally limited anyone is who opposes how you see the world.
You won't even dare discuss facts. Pertinent details relative to the issue at hand. Nope. Brain shrunken nut job is how you see anyone NOT in your camp. Kinda like Obama.
Incidentally, I DID use to 'argue' with YEC, years and years ago. I found them every bit as set in their belief system as AGW folks of today. Stubborn and immune to evidence. REAL evidence, not computer models, which seemingly have to be revised over and over...
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Yep. Thanks for the reality check, Signy.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
just think of rappy as a jihadist or a young creationist and let it go at that.
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Yup, Chris, he gotcha. I'm not going back to count, what, three or four times you got sucked into responding? My sympathies. I agree with Chris, Sig; you nailed it.
My sympathies also on what the shutdown has caused you and your company; a prime example of how it's harming our country. The blow to the economy will be another, which of course will tickle them pink because they'll spin it to blame THAT on Obama, and if they keep it up and do their job, that's how history will remember it. Works for them, you betcha!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama did this. THIS meaning closing off the WW2 Memorial ( as well as other selective acts ) purely for punishment and PR purposes.
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
They were closed because the workers at the parks were basically told to go home because there's no pay. You can't keep a business open under those circumstances.
This is cause and effect. Some of the rangers at various parks have shown up as volunteers, as have the secret service, and the WW2 memorial was opened because some vets and wives of vets showed up and whoever was there that day closing the memorial felt sorry for them. Then it got attention and the rest of the workers showed up also as volunteers to try to keep it open.
If you want to say that the reason there's no pay is Obama's fault, or that it's his responsibility because he's the president and the vice president seems to be useless as an influence in congress, okay, you're entitled to that, but saying that closing the parks was like a personal choice on the part of the president is not an argument that makes sense.
It happened as a direct result of there being no budget. When a budget agreement couldn't be reached, no one had any choice but to close the parks because we have no means to pay to maintain them or the workers at the parks.
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Succinctly and accurately put, Byte. I don't know who decides what stays open and what closes when there's a government shutdown, but aside from politics, it seems logical that tourist attractions wouldn't be high on the "necessary" list. Unfortunately a LOT of people are getting caught in the middle, which is sad.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama did this. THIS meaning closing off the WW2 Memorial ( as well as other selective acts ) purely for punishment and PR purposes.
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
They were closed because the workers at the parks were basically told to go home because there's no pay. You can't keep a business open under those circumstances.
Told to go home, by the White House. Right.
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
And barricading these monuments... never happened before, in all the 16 other times the govt has shut down.
Also, it costs the govt MORE $ to hire guards and rent blockades. But this admin wants as many visible signs of the govt 'closing down', as possible, and to inflict as much pain on the public. Screw the Vets. They're dying anyways, what does Obama care ?
He doesn't.
Quote:
This is cause and effect. Some of the rangers at various parks have shown up as volunteers, as have the secret service, and the WW2 memorial was opened because some vets and wives of vets showed up and whoever was there that day closing the memorial felt sorry for them. Then it got attention and the rest of the workers showed up also as volunteers to try to keep it open.
Only they tried to double down and make the barriers harder to get into, by wiring the barricades together the next day. It was thanks to the likes of Senator Bachmann and Jay Sekulow who are raising awareness about this travesty of keeping 90+ year old Vets out of THEIR memorial.
Quote:
If you want to say that the reason there's no pay is Obama's fault, or that it's his responsibility because he's the president and the vice president seems to be useless as an influence in congress, okay, you're entitled to that, but saying that closing the parks was like a personal choice on the part of the president is not an argument that makes sense.
Actually, it's not an argument at all. It's the truth. Even if you lay the blame at the feet of BOTH parties, which I have to admit most Americans seem to be doing, the specific choices of closing open air monuments like the WW2 Memorial is entirely Obama's.
Quote:
It happened as a direct result of there being no budget. When a budget agreement couldn't be reached, no one had any choice but to close the parks because we have no means to pay to maintain them or the workers at the parks.
In some cases, sure. But not this one. Not most, in fact.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
Frankly, I don't care one way or another. All these marble pats on the back in the capital at the expense of tax payers kinda stick in my craw. But I figured maybe YOU did seeing as you're raising a fuss about it.
Previous shutdowns for example like 1995 were technically only partial shutdowns, as some of the departments had received funding prior to very similar disagreements about funding of medicare and education between Republican congress wanting to slow spending and a Democratic president with social welfare programs. There was almost NO funding approved this year before October 1st, therefore the shutdown was more extensive.
Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
No, they don't.
Quote:
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
Already happened to the Lincoln Memorial, not too long ago. The "workers " were on the job then, too. So much for that.
Quote:
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
There were no " volunteers " . No idea what you're even talking about. The PAID rent-a-cops were put there, by Obama, to keep people OUT.
Quote:
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
Can and do, for the reasons already stated. Same reason he closed the WH tours, for " sequestration ", as he's doing this too. To inflict pain on the public, closing the most visible , high profile things possible, to try to win the PR game. He's losing badly on the WW 2 Memorial , and folks are starting to wake up.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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I don't get it. Why is ANYTHING still working at all? There should be riots N' looting already! Mass hysteria! Cats and dogs living together!
This is NOT a proper government shutdown IMO!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I don't get it. Why is ANYTHING still working at all? There should be riots N' looting already! Mass hysteria! Cats and dogs living together!
This is NOT a proper government shutdown IMO!
Remember the hysteria that Obama would have us believe faced us, due to sequestration ? The horror tales and drag on the economy ? And then more of the same w/ the shut down ?
Seems folks aren't missing the Gov'ment as much as Barry would want. So he pulls stunts like closing open air monuments, and such.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Barricades were meant to be circumvented.
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Byte has an excellent grasp of the situation, I'm impressed! And she's right, on virtually every point. Rap can deny it, but yes, the government would be legally liable, and the Park Rangers ARE there voluntarily, doing their jobs without pay, and the fact that there's graffiti when people are on duty has nothing to do with how much MORE there would be if nobody were around. Throwing a hissy fit and saying things aren't true doesn't make it so; what Byte elucidated is exactly how it is.
America and our economy HAS been hurt by the sequestration, and by this current mess, and a LOT of individual people are suffering--especially if they don't get back pay after this is all over (which thought horrifies me).
We don't hear about it because bad news is bad for the market and the media/government don't want us paying a lot of attention, but it's there, it's been there and it's bad:
"GOLDMAN SACHS: The Economic Damage From The Sequester Is Becoming More Clear, And It Could Get Worse", http://www.businessinsider.com/sequester-finally-hurting-2013-9#ixzz2g
tZyBO3j
"Sequestration Will Prevent Creation Of Up To 1.6 Million Jobs In Next Year, CBO Concludes", http://www.chicagodefender.com/index.php/business/21605-seuestration-1
-6-million-jobs-next-year-cbo
"Yes, the Sequester Is Affecting the Job Market", http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/yes-the-sequester-is-affe
cting-the-job-market/?_r=0
"New FBI Director James B. Comey stunned by impact of sequestration on agents in the field", http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-27/world/42459536_1_comey-b
udget-cuts-fbi-agents-association
Just because it's not "in your face" every day doesn't mean it's not happening; it is and this is making it worse. Which, unfortunately, is just jim dandy with the right, because they don't WANT the country to recover (at least until they're in power), it makes Obama/Dems look good; anyone who hasn't figured that out hasn't been paying attention. Remember how very, very long it took me to finally accept that the Republicans were quite happy to do thing which would make the country WORSE in hopes it would put them in power. Even I had to finally acknowledge the truth. But as long as there's Obama to blame, our righties will do as they're told and blame him.
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Quote:
No, they don't.
The WW2 veterans memorial doesn't, but a number of them DO. Parks-wise Yellowstone and Byrce come to mind in my immediate neighborhood. National Monuments like Devil's Tower do as well. And the national parks service does act like a business.
Quote:
There were no " volunteers " . No idea what you're even talking about.
http://www.wral.com/furloughed-workers-volunteer-during-shutdown/12951
310/
There were also some rangers who tried to volunteer at the parks they worked at to keep the parks open. I don't know if they're still doing that though.
Quote:
Already happened to the Lincoln Memorial, not too long ago. The "workers " were on the job then, too. So much for that.
Yes, that's what I was alluding to. They messed up then, but the point is, that's what the workers are supposed to be there for. If they can't be there for whatever reason, then the monuments are at risk. There's also liability concerns.
So if businesses can't be serviced by employees because no employees are available, the business is closed.
It's one thing to say that Obama's administration is responsible for the situation, and that their efforts to keep the ACA on the books has directly resulted in the pushback which caused the furlough and closures. But you have to connect ALL those dots to be accurate according to that point of view. Saying that Obama himself personally closed the parks out of spite is shaky argument ground to stand on.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
Being right here near D.C. I can tell you that pretty much all of the National Monuments closed here do not charge any admission. And the green paint on the statues of both Lincoln and Mr. Henry (along with parts of the National Cathedral (not government affiliated, BTW)) was the work of one crazy person.
It's also been interesting that the Park Service has closed parking lots along the George Washington Parkway between the Capitol Beltway and Mount Vernon due to the shutdown, but strangely still has enough staff to give parking tickets to folks who park in them.
Quote:
Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
All the Administration has to do is "suggest" to the various government functions that fall under the Executive Branch (which is most of them) that they should make their most public and newsworthy functions "non-essential". Niether Obama, nor the Democratic leadership, has to get down to the detail level.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:The spice must flow.
Originally posted by Geezer:
but strangely still has enough staff to give parking tickets to folks who park in them.
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BYTE - I already addressed all that early on, and made CLEAR distinction between museums and the the likes of Yellostone and open monuments like the WW 2 Memorial. Just stop it.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
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" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Barricades were meant to be circumvented.
Huh?
Umm.... then why waste time, $ and effort putting them there in the first place ?
Oh, I know. Great photo op for our dear leader.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
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And now a new "interpretation" of the law allows the Defense Department to bring back all its employees, and the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers.
Since they're gonna pay them, why not put them back to work?
It's all just political theater, from both sides.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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"The spice must flow" --hee, hee, hee, got it.
"It's all just political theater, from both sides" --of course it is, now it's happened! To expect otherwise would be to expect the Dems to be naive idiots, because it's been "political theater" since the Repubs STARTED it!
"the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers" --oh, thank goodness. I can't imagine suddenly being told "go home, we're not going to pay you for a while, dunno how long"...those poor families!
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C'mon Niki, you know the Left LOVES the theatre more than those on the Right.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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*UPDATED* THE LIST: UNNECESSARILY SHUT DOWN BY OBAMA TO INFLICT PUBLIC PAIN
While our president still enjoys his essential employees and locations: the White House chefs, Camp David, and a military golf course, there doesn't seem to be any question that in mercenary pursuit of a political win, this White House is determined to unreasonably punish as many everyday people as possible. And this includes children sick with cancer. That might sound like hyperbole, but it is not.
1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer - The GOP have agreed to a compromise by funding part of the government, including the National Institutes of Health, which offers children with cancer last-chance experimental treatment. Obama has threatened to veto this funding.
2. The World War II Memorial - The WWII memorial on the DC Mall is a 24/7 open-air memorial that is not regularly staffed. Although the White House must have known that WWII veterans in their eighties and nineties had already booked flights to visit this memorial, the White House still found the resources to spitefully barricade the attraction.
The Republican National Committee has offered to cover any costs required to keep the memorial open. The White House refused. Moreover, like the NIH, the GOP will pass a compromise bill that would fund America's national parks. Obama has threatened to veto that bill.
3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free - Furloughed military chaplains willing to celebrate Mass and baptisms for free have been told they will be punished for doing so.
4. Business Stops In Florida Keys - Although the GOP have agreed to compromise in the ongoing budget stalemate and fund the parks, Obama has threatened to veto that funding. As a result, small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman can't practice their trade. While the feds have deemed the personnel necessary to keep this area open "non-essential," the "enforcement officers" to ensure no business is done are "essential."
5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops - The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.
Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential.
6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial - The GOP have offered to compromise and fund the National Parks. Obama has said he will veto this compromise legislation. As a result, along with 24 other military cemeteries, the D-Day memorial in Normandy has been barricaded.
7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon - Although George Washington's Mt. Vernon estate is privately funded, the feds blocked visitors from entering the parking area because the Park Service maintains the lot. Apparently, the New Media publicity resulted in the feds backing down.
8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run - The U.S. Treasury actually makes money from the rent paid by a private company that "employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states." No federal money is used to operate these parks. No federal employees are used to staff these parks. Taxpayers make a profit from these parks. Still, Obama had them closed and as a result 400-500 employees and a private business are taking it in the neck.
9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980 - "For the first time in 40 years, the National Park Service (NPS) has finally succeeded in closing the Farm down to the public. In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.”
10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin - "The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil's Lake, and Interstate state parks a
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Quote:
It's all just political theater, from both sides.
Agreed. It's disgusting.
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Quote:LOL, an ultra right wing hate fest site? Really? Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown
If the big-hearted, warm & fuzzy Repubs are so pro-people, let them turn the government back on. This "We'll shut everything down! Oh, but we'll WORK to keep the good stuff open for the kids..." bullshit is all games to make Obama look bad. And that's the only real goal of the shutdown- to get a Republican President next time. And the Repubs will sacrifice at any altar necessary to achieve that goal. If the American public is as stupid as they calculate it is, this plan will work. If not, the Repubs better find work in the private sector pretty fast.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:LOL, an ultra right wing hate fest site? Really? Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown
Probably ?
Name one. Go for it, model boy.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Name one what? Hate fest site? Can you use the language a little more precisely?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Name one. Go for it, model boy.
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Quote:
Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.
What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Actually, NONE of it is true. How in hell Rap expects us to even READ something from BREITBART is amusing, given all the things he calls "left-wing biased" (like virtually everything BUT Breitbart, FauxNews, etc.). But I'll take the bait:
#1: "The GOP have agreed"--in other words, the Democrats already proposed it, and the GOP "agreed".
#2: We've done the WW II Memorial to death already.
#3: The truth: Quote:
The House of Representatives was nearly unanimous in a Saturday vote that mandated military installations around the country continue to provide religious services during the government shutdown.
The measure, which needed a two-thirds majority of support in the House, passed by a vote of 400-1. The measure was not a spending measure and only expressed that Congress did not want the Department of Defense to suspend religious programs during the shutdown.
Despite the fact that certain service members were working during the shutdown, the Defense Department decided to furlough civilian and contract workers because the department lacked an appropriations bill. This move included some religious leaders. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/05/house-passes-measure-a
imed-at-bringing-military-chaplains-back-to-work/
So what is the bullshit Breitbart is selling?
#4: Is part of the GOP game called "piecemeal funding", about which: Quote:
The President and the Senate have been clear that they won’t accept this kind of game-playing, and if these bills were to come to the president’s desk he would veto them, White House spokeswoman Amy Brundage said in a statement, responding to the plans under consideration by House Republicans.
"These piecemeal efforts are not serious, and they are no way to run a government," she said. "If House Republicans are legitimately concerned about the impacts of a shutdown -- which extend across government from our small businesses to women, children and seniors -- they should do their job and pass a clean CR to reopen the government." http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/10/white-house-obama-would-vet
o-piecemeal-funding-bills-174032.html
In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game. Pure gamesmanship. If they really gave a shit about "small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman", not to mention the millions of others who are being affected, obviously they'd pass a budget.
Looking down the list, that covers just about all of Breitbart's ridiculous article, why bother going on? "Obama closes...", "Obama shuts down...", it's laughable...it even REPEATS specific phrases more than once, just to get people who believe the bullshit even more riled up.
I'm not going to take the time to look up who is actually in charge of shutting down what, tho' I thank Byte for knowing one of the answers. The simple fact is that the PARK SERVICE shuts down the parks, other AGENCIES shut down what's their responsibility, and federal employees HAD to be furloughed, that's the LAW, Obama didn't "shut down" a single thing. They'll keep screaming it's all about him, of course they will, EVERYTHING they hate is always Obama's personal, individual "fault", but that doesn't make it so.
The fact that he and the Senate mind you aren't willing to play the game...pass little individual bills to open this or that which pisses somebody off...is good p.r. on their part and plays in the media, but completely ignores the reality of the situation.
They're doing a great job of the p.r., tho', which is what it's all been about FROM THE BEGINNING! Get real; Rap needs to find SOME kind of ACTUAL source, not idiocy like Infowars or Breitbart, to put forth facts if he wants to be taken seriously. Wh
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What these Tea Party assholes are doing, on our tab, is sitting there in Congress deciding "Hey, let's write a bill to fund this...or that", things that have high visibility, sound good, or THEY like, and let the rest of the country go to hell. Yeah, really fiscally responsible. You betcha!
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Quote:Obama does not sit around deciding who to say "Drop dead" to, it's not his job to negotiate hundreds of deals to keep individual areas open, it's his job to try and get Republicans to stop playing schoolyard bully with people's LIVES. While individual parts of details are correct, the author's many conclusions are inaccurate at best.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.
You can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid. The Repubs started this for this very reason and no other. And they're counting, absolutely COUNTING on the stupidity of the American people in this end game.
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Quote:Precisely. You can articulate the situation so much better than I, Niki.
Originally posted by Niki2:
In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Obama does not sit around deciding who to say "Drop dead" to, it's not his job to negotiate hundreds of deals to keep individual areas open, it's his job to try and get Republicans to stop playing schoolyard bully with people's LIVES. While individual parts of details are correct, the author's many conclusions are inaccurate at best.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.
You can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid. The Repubs started this for this very reason and no other. And they're counting, absolutely COUNTING on the stupidity of the American people in this end game.
Your OPINION only.
You've addressed nothing specifically listed by the Breitbart piece, have you ? Just prattled off YOUR opinion on what their opinion is, but the facts aren't in dispute. The closings are as reported.
The 10% you claim is probably true is more like 90%.
And he doesn't HAVE to go down a list of hundreds of parks and scheme how to deal with each one. He just waves his hand and says ' close 'em all ', and then his order goes out. Takes 2 seconds, if that long.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Precisely. You can articulate the situation so much better than I, Niki.
Originally posted by Niki2:
In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game.
Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE. It's Obama and the Left who have stated that they want to cause as much pain as possible.
Just like Harry Reid said, when asked if he'd help kids dying of cancer...
" Why would we want to do that ? "
ABC, NBC Ignore Harry Reid’s “Why Would We Want To Do That?” Cancer and Kids Comment
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/04/abc-nbc-ignore-harry-reids-why-woul
d-we-want-to-do-that-cancer-and-kids-comment/
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.
Happy?
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Quote:Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.
Happy?
No. Not happy.
But happier.
Still not sure how you only credit BR for being 1/2 right. Closures ultimately come form the WH. That's not a matter for debate. Parks Service is under OMB,which is under the Executive branch. Obama is at the top of the Executive Branch.
De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.
Actually, you can. If you want to adhere to that false, lame analogy. Better to offer some help than to let them die.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Regarding the open-air monuments: Is it the President's responsibility to open or "close" said monuments? Isn't that the province of Congress? or am I mistaken?
By the way, did the House now also takeover, as part of the Shutdown, Fingerpointing? I just want to know, for future reference.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
Frankly, I don't care one way or another. All these marble pats on the back in the capital at the expense of tax payers kinda stick in my craw. But I figured maybe YOU did seeing as you're raising a fuss about it.
Previous shutdowns for example like 1995 were technically only partial shutdowns, as some of the departments had received funding prior to very similar disagreements about funding of medicare and education between Republican congress wanting to slow spending and a Democratic president with social welfare programs. There was almost NO funding approved this year before October 1st, therefore the shutdown was more extensive.
Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
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Quote:In the brief Columbus Day shutdown of 1990, George H.W. Bush shut down Washington's monuments and museums, too.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.
http://theweek.com/article/index/250498/is-it-really-necessary-to-shut
-down-all-the-monuments-in-washington
Turns out it's got precedent. Plus the usual legal bs- some one falls & no government people there to assist & it's sue city.
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Quote:The point sir is that the grenade should not have been thrown in the first place.;)
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Better to offer some help than to let them die.
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Hey Niki,
It seems to me that the House (actually those that brought this foolishness about) are caving in bit by bit as the political realities and consequences of the Shutdown emerge.
People must realize that the truth eventually will come out. Every time someone says that the president is responsible, the House puts forth a CR to fund that particular aspect of the government that's been affected. That tells you right there where the true responsibility lies. If the president were truly responsible, wouldn't he continue the Lockout?
The House Republicans are looking sillier and sillier with each passing day.
Boehner says he's outraged at the administration claiming "winning" in this stalemate (and rightfully so, that was a stupid comment to make), but so to is Rand Paul suggesting to McConnell that they are "winning." It is one-upmanship at it's ugliest.
Meanwhile real people suffer. Well, I say watch out in the fall elections, gerrymandering or no, people are fed up.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Byte has an excellent grasp of the situation, I'm impressed! And she's right, on virtually every point. Rap can deny it, but yes, the government would be legally liable, and the Park Rangers ARE there voluntarily, doing their jobs without pay, and the fact that there's graffiti when people are on duty has nothing to do with how much MORE there would be if nobody were around. Throwing a hissy fit and saying things aren't true doesn't make it so; what Byte elucidated is exactly how it is.
America and our economy HAS been hurt by the sequestration, and by this current mess, and a LOT of individual people are suffering--especially if they don't get back pay after this is all over (which thought horrifies me).
We don't hear about it because bad news is bad for the market and the media/government don't want us paying a lot of attention, but it's there, it's been there and it's bad:
"GOLDMAN SACHS: The Economic Damage From The Sequester Is Becoming More Clear, And It Could Get Worse", http://www.businessinsider.com/sequester-finally-hurting-2013-9#ixzz2g
tZyBO3j
"Sequestration Will Prevent Creation Of Up To 1.6 Million Jobs In Next Year, CBO Concludes", http://www.chicagodefender.com/index.php/business/21605-seuestration-1
-6-million-jobs-next-year-cbo
"Yes, the Sequester Is Affecting the Job Market", http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/yes-the-sequester-is-affe
cting-the-job-market/?_r=0
"New FBI Director James B. Comey stunned by impact of sequestration on agents in the field", http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-27/world/42459536_1_comey-b
udget-cuts-fbi-agents-association
Just because it's not "in your face" every day doesn't mean it's not happening; it is and this is making it worse. Which, unfortunately, is just jim dandy with the right, because they don't WANT the country to recover (at least until they're in power), it makes Obama/Dems look good; anyone who hasn't figured that out hasn't been paying attention. Remember how very, very long it took me to finally accept that the Republicans were quite happy to do thing which would make the country WORSE in hopes it would put them in power. Even I had to finally acknowledge the truth. But as long as there's Obama to blame, our righties will do as they're told and blame him.
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This is getting stupid. OBAMA DIDN'T SHUT DOWN ANYTHING. CONGRESS DIDN'T PASS A BUDGET, that's what LEGALLY caused the shutdown. Here's a list of what's shut down and who's responsible for it, Obama didn't say "shut it down", the LAW did. That is the result of refusing to pass a budget, pure and simple; the law goes into effect. How any times do we have to say it?
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-im
pact/
Just a sample, running down the list:
"The independent agency's 30 employees are prohibited from working during a shutdown"
"Within one hour of learning about a shutdown, the director of the Office of Administration sends an e-mail advisory to all the staff"
"processing of requests for new licenses, label approval and manufacture of nonbeverage products ceases"
"All sites worldwide are closed to the public"
"No federal employees can investigate industrial chemical spills/accidents that happen during the shutdown. Current investigations are frozen"
"All employees will continue to work until funds are exhausted"
"During a shutdown, all FCC activities other than those immediately necessary for the protection of life or property must cease."
"All Commission activities must completely shut down by 12:00 p.m. ET Tuesday"
"All employees shall be furloughed except those performing work to address a threat to human life or property; those involved in the orderly shutdown of agency operations; and those otherwise allowed by operation of law. "
"(IRS) All the following cease in a shutdown: All audit functions; examination of returns and processing of nonelectronic tax returns that do not include remittances; nonautomated collections; legal counsel; taxpayer services such as responding to taxpayer questions (call sites); information systems functions (except as necessary to prevent loss of data in process); all planning, research, and training and development activities."
and on and on. Obama has NOTHING to do with it, it's the LAW. That Rap refuses to acknowledge that doesn't make it not so, he's just going to go right on blathering idiocy as long as people keep trying to get through to him.
To FORCE all this TO SHUT DOWN BY LAW (and the list is loooong!) because they DEMAND that Obamacare be "delayed" (which is bullshit and we know it), despite the fact that the ACA IS the law, not passing a budget won't kill it, and it has been adjudicated so by the Supreme Court, then get together and play childish games about passing little individual bills to open this or that thing back up individually AND lie blatantly by saying "OBAMA shut down...", is insane, period.
Enough already.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Regarding the open-air monuments: Is it the President's responsibility to open or "close" said monuments? Isn't that the province of Congress? or am I mistaken?
It's the President's call. Congress has no say in the matter.
This has been discussed, and explained, several times already.
Quote:
By the way, did the House now also takeover, as part of the Shutdown, Fingerpointing? I just want to know, for future reference.
SGG
Fingerpointing was never the property of either side exclusively. Best you'll get from anyone is that it's 50/50. I happen to think the Left engages in far more than 50%, but at this point, what difference does it make ?
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:The point sir is that the grenade should not have been thrown in the first place.;)
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Better to offer some help than to let them die.
Again, false analogy from the start, so there's no real point of engaging in this further.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Absolutely, if Rap's only excuse for posting is to continue lying and denying the truth, time for him to quit (long past, actually...). And oh, how I wish he would, because I'll keep putting forth the FACTS about this as long as he keeps spewing lies. Here are the plain, simple facts:
Congress has one key duty in the Constitution -- pass spending bills that fund the government. If it doesn't, most functions of government -- from funding agencies to paying out small business loans and processing passport requests -- grind to a halt. The government does not have the legal authority to spend money. Under a federal law known as the Anti-Deficiency Act, it can be a felony to spend taxpayer money without an appropriation from Congress (which is why they keep trying to pass little tiny bills to fund one thing at a time).
All that has been explained again and again, WITH facts, figures, sites and sources. Obama does not shut down the government: The LAW does. Period.
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Quote:No, really, you can stop now.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Again, false analogy from the start, so there's
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Absolutely, if Rap's only excuse for posting is to continue lying and denying the truth, time for him to quit (long past, actually...).
Where am I lying ? Chris couldn't make the case. Can YOU ?
Quote:
And oh, how I wish he would, because I'll keep putting forth the FACTS about this as long as he keeps spewing lies. Here are the plain, simple facts:
Congress has one key duty in the Constitution -- pass spending bills that fund the government. If it doesn't, most functions of government -- from funding agencies to paying out small business loans and processing passport requests -- grind to a halt. The government does not have the legal authority to spend money. Under a federal law known as the Anti-Deficiency Act, it can be a felony to spend taxpayer money without an appropriation from Congress (which is why they keep trying to pass little tiny bills to fund one thing at a time).
All that has been explained again and again, WITH facts, figures, sites and sources. Obama does not shut down the government: The LAW does. Period.
Ahh. I see you've tried to shift the discussion to who has shut down the parks to Congress's responsibility. Clever girl.
Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate and Obama refuse to sign them into law.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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"Congress"--actually a small group of Republicans in Congress--has passed budget after budget, each one DEFUNDING or killing the ACA. Since it is the law of the land, DEMANDING its defunding be part of a budget is wrong. This same group has consistently REFUSED to vote for any budget that DOES NOT defund the ACA. Neither the Senate nor Obama can accept a budget which defunds the ACA, which is how that small group of "representatives" (I use the term advisedly) could ensure that any budget they vote "yes" on would never pass. Simple as that.
Why doesn't he quit while he's behind? The entire article from Breitbart that he put up is a blatant lie; Obama has not shut down ANYTHING, I've detailed that with facts and links repeatedly...it's THE LAW which shut down the government, period. Obama neither wrote the law nor enforces it. And it is the SENATE which also refuses to play the game of "let's fund one thing at a time". So just writing "Obama shut down..." is a LIE, pure and simple.
One can only present facts so many times, then there's little left to do but
http://www.ips-dc.org/files/6454/shutdown-enemy-cartoon.JPG
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Quote:Clever boy. You bypass the main problem & focus on what makes Obama look bad. Good puppet.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate and Obama refuse to sign them into law.
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"Where am I lying?:
"Obama Blacks Out Sports" - Lie. When the government shuts down, personnel at AFN’s broadcast center faced MANDATORY reductions, BY LAW. They jiggled things and: "AFN went mostly dark after the shutdown, according to a Friday report from the Associated Press, but Sunday's slate of NFL games also comes with good news.
Via AFN's Facebook page: "Sportsfans, we are going to be able to run two NFL games today!!! Broncos vs Cowboys will start at 10pm CET 06OCT/5am JKT 07OCT. The Texans vs 49ers will start at 2am CET 07OCT/ 9am JKT 07OCT. Both games will air on AFN|news." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24038470/despite-shutdown
-american-forces-network-to-air-two-nfl-games
Nothing to do with "Obama".
"Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha (sic) Goes Through CO Park": "The Forest Service announcement, in turn, led the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down" -- the lie is RIGHT THERE IN THE TEXT: The FOREST SERVICE announced the shutdown, so the COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ordered that the road be closed.
"Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore" --Again, the lie is right there in the text: "The National Park Service placed cones along highway viewing areas". The NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, not Obama.
So why should I go through it item by item, when they're all such a blatant, bald-faced lies?
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Quote:
Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate...
RAPPY: Ah, I see where your fundamental lack of facts comes into play. You DO realize, rappy, that the Senate is part of Congress???
House + Senate = Congress.
So, "Congress" has NOT passed bills to fund the government. The Senate, which is ALSO part of the legislature and which represents the individual states in a different way, disagrees with the House. I know you think that the Senate is illegitimate... in fact, I know you think that ANYONE who disagrees with you is illegitimate... I know you want to do away with representation whenever the people disagree with you but, really... Jeezus, please don't argue about the defintion of "congress", OK? Otherwise this going to be another one of those threads where you wind up getting your ass handed to over such things as the definition of "supersede".
Wow, screw your head back onto your shoulders, willya?
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The House has passed spending bills then. The SENATE refuses to do the same.
The SENATE refuses to even meet w/ the House to negotiate.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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WW2 vets need to get their asses to the Mexican border pronto
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Oh, so "the Congress" has NOT passed...?
So, "Obama" DIDN'T shut down the government?
So, YOU WERE WRONG?
Well, that's a monumental step in the right direction!
So, will you please then NOT refer to that same mistake over and over again, like you do with WMD?
Yanno what? The Senate is only doing what they were elected to do. Don't like it? Go argue with the Constitution. And when you find yourself on the very wrong end of an argument, maybe the best response is to STFU.
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Obama Admin Closes Part Of Ocean Due To Govt Shutdown to “inflict the maximum public pain”
http://benswann.com/obama-admin-closes-part-of-ocean-due-to-govt-shutd
own/
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
This is who you pay your IRS income taxes to since the British royal family are owners of the private foreign "Federal" Reserve Bank that counterfeits all so-called "US dollars" out of thin air then loans them at $1-billion/day interest to the US Govt.
Quote:
ZOG.
Zionist Occupied Government.
-Marrion-Webster Dictionary
In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China
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I said 'congress' when I shoud have stated ' the house '.
That's all.
The remainder of my position is still correct.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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So, whose fault is the shutdown NOW? It lies with "Congress", right? Obama doesn't even come into it, because it is CONGRESS' responsibility to come up with budget.
Yanno, Like I said in the other thread: Why don't the repubs OWN this? Isn't this what they want... to shut things down?
SAY IT LOUD AND SAY IT PROUD: I SHUT DOWN GUBMINT!
Stop being such wusses!
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The GOP just want to cut spending and save the country from O-care.
Obama is perfectly fine w/ destroying the country, no matter what.
Slowly, by implementing O-care, or quickly by keeping the govt shut down.
He's a born and raised radical. It's who he is.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:Oh, okay, and they get to do this legally or illegally, by any means necessary, right? Like how Reagan funded the Contras... how phantom WMD was used to start a war that overextended us... how torture can be reassigned names so we can say it's NOT torture...right?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The GOP just want to cut spending and save the country from O-care.
We are a nation of law.
Bullfuckingshit.
Law of the jungle, baby.LOL.
If you can get away with it, it must be right.
I'll leave it to anyone silly enough to keep trying to get ANYTHING through Rap's thick skill to take it from here. -Niki 2013
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Quote:Here comes the whinging and weaseling!
The GOP just want to...
How are are those GOPers, anyway? Two years old??
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:LOL, an ultra right wing hate fest site? Really? Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown
Washington post Left enough for you?
Quote:
Losing a hard-fought battle confers no dishonor, but losing a badly chosen battle is embarrassing.
And then there’s ridiculous.
Into the last category goes the decision to close the nation’s monuments to make sure that the government shutdown strikes the hearts of all The American People, whose constant invocation by pandering politicians fills one with self-loathing. (Who wants to be an “American People,” given the quality of our spokesfolksen?)
Then again, ridiculous is perhaps too generous a word. Closing the monuments, especially the World War II Memorial, can be reduced, fittingly, to a single syllable: Dumb. It is fitting because the seated patron of the Mall, Abraham Lincoln, was famously monosyllabic. In trivia you can use, more than 70 percent of the words in the Gettysburg Address are of one syllable.
In more recent history, when a group of World War II veterans recently faced barriers blocking entry to the memorial — an open space requiring not so much as an attendant — these elderly warriors took a page from their Normandy playbook and stormed the barricades.
Can there be an image more inspiring than members of this venerable club, whose living roll declines each day by about 640, pushing their way through flimsy, useless, pointless barriers to roam among pillars erected to their heroism? What was Washington thinking?
Dumb, dumb, dumb.
President Obama, whose grandfather was a World War II veteran, might have known better. We may have to close down the government, he could have said, but don’t touch the monuments.
Instead, the Office of Management and Budget ordered the barricades.
That’ll show ’em.
Among the many reasons this was so clumsy, one stands out starkly: It isn’t as though the WWII guys can always come back another day. All are in their late 80s and early 90s, and time is of the essence. Moreover, most plan these trips well in advance and at considerable expense.
Thanks to the monument liberators, Washington officials were forced to rethink their decision and removed the barriers. The American People are now free to roam their public spaces that remember sacrifices beyond most imaginations.
Optically, symbolically and every other way, this seems too little too late. Shutting out veterans from their memorial touchstone was more than a bad call, a lapse of judgment, a mere moment of tone-deafness. In reality, it may have been the tidy effort of a box-checking bureaucrat, but it reeked of the small work of a petty bully.
Ditto the closing of the D-Day cemetery in Normandy, France, where more than 9,000 Americans are buried. And this is the president who recently declared that The American People are not political pawns to be used to score political points?
Barack Obama must have been an inkling in the prescient mind of H.L. Mencken when the curmudgeon from whom all op-eds flow once described democracy as “the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
While one may sympathize with Obama’s contempt for his congressional adversaries, he may have cut off his own nose with an unforced error of magnified proportions. Spite is unbecoming a president, as Richard Nixon proved in another era of national disruption. But beyond personality, it is baffling to imagine anyone thinking that the way to winning hearts and minds is by disrespecting the nation’s most beloved demographic.
I’ve often lamented the prospect of a world without my parents’ generation, not because they were perfect but because these mothers and fathers take with them a national treasure — their personal experiences and memories of the Great Depression and World War II and the lessons of sacrifi
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