SECOND

POSTED BY: MIKER
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 04:26
VIEWED: 29941
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MIKER

Friday, April 4, 2014 11:43 PM

I love SECONDS art work and saw a post that suggested SECOND was last here sometime in 2009. I have sent Second a message but fear I will not hear back. Is SECOND still active at this site? I ask because I keep seeing postings attributed to SECOND, so the post that suggests SECOND has not visited the site since 2009 is confusing.

SECOND in not the only one I have seen a post from that suggests they have not been here for years yet they appear to still be posting info and comments.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

MOOSE

Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:33 AM

I'd have to say that the "last here" info is wrong.
My profile shows me last here 8/13. I can assure you I've been here since then.
Probably just a glitch in the system.

CHRISISALL

Saturday, April 5, 2014 1:36 AM

SECOND was just on the thread I started the other day.

MIKER

Saturday, April 5, 2014 2:10 AM

I am glad to say I heard from SECOND who assured me the posts were current and made by him or her. Tricky to navigate that. Anyway thanks for the response to my question.

ECGORDON

Saturday, April 5, 2014 5:01 AM

Second has also posted under the username Two. Not sure it they're interchangeable or if he (she?) stopped using one and switched to the other.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

ECGORDON

Saturday, April 5, 2014 5:22 AM

I just checked my profile and it says I was last here in September of 2012. I may not post something everyday, but I don't think there have been many (if any) days since Jan. 2004, that I haven't visited this site.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

MIKER

Saturday, April 5, 2014 5:55 AM

Wow that's a long time. I like running into the people who created the movement that lives on till this day. Thanks

TWO

Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:32 AM

second is two logging in using gmail ID and two is second logging in using a defunct verizon.net mail address.

I have some other free things people have posted at
www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

There is:
Every Firefly Script plus More.zip Size: 2 MB
Maps of the Verse.zip 16 MB

And 3 free comic books:
Serenity-Downtime (2010).cbr 4 MB
Serenity-Its Never Easy (2012).cbr 15 MB
Serenity-The Other Half (2008).cbr 3 MB
Software reviews for comic readers are at http://lifehacker.com/5858906/five-best-desktop-comic-book-readers/all
Or just unzip the pictures by changing .cbr file suffix to .rar and clicking on the new filename.

http://bostonology.deviantart.com/art/Vera-443253084

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
second is two logging in using gmail ID and two is second logging in using a defunct verizon.net mail address.

I concur and second the motion.
http://mjasonreed.deviantart.com/art/Mal-440186434

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

WISHIMAY

Saturday, April 5, 2014 9:07 AM

So can we finally get the he/she/both/neither thing answered???

I thought you were a guy myself.... but I admit I don't pay much attention either way...

MOOSE

Saturday, April 5, 2014 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Wow that's a long time. I like running into the people who created the movement that lives on till this day. Thanks

And I absolutely love seeing new fans finding the show and the 'Verse that comes along with it.
You all are a lot of the reason it still "lives on till this day."

Thank you.

MIKER

Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:03 PM

Sorry if I started something Second, two or concur but I have ta admit I got a kick out of your last post.

And I am glad you got the whole he/she thing figured out Wishimay, because I am still in the dark about that.

TWO

Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
So can we finally get the he/she/both/neither thing answered???

I thought you were a guy myself.... but I admit I don't pay much attention either way...

I am words on a screen.
http://brightflare.deviantart.com/art/The-Serenity-444742900

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:54 PM

I claim I'm more than a spambot. But not much more.

Did anyone notice that George W Bush is now a painter? If only he would do portraits of the Firefly crew to raise awareness.
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/04/04/meet-george-w
-bush-artist/

http://regeneratedarts.deviantart.com/art/Shepherd-Book-445085983

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

WISHIMAY

Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:57 PM

Seriously, that's what you're going with??
I mean I don't care anything about your personal life, but having a gender reference would help.

And I thought I was paranoid

SECOND

Saturday, April 5, 2014 7:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Seriously, that's what you're going with??
I mean I don't care anything about your personal life, but having a gender reference would help.

And I thought I was paranoid

You didn't ask me what my picture means: Summer Glau is a marine biologist with a submarine in Avatar 2. Tragically, her mother is Sigourney Weaver, killed in the first Avatar. And, tragedy piled on tragedy, Summer was paralyzed in a scuba diving accident and needs an avatar. That's the movie James Cameron should make. http://collider.com/avatar-2-avatar-3-avatar-4-sequels-story/

I see that Stephen Lang, who played evil Colonel Miles Quaritch in Avatar, is signed on for all three sequels. I predict the evil Colonel has an evil Twin because the Colonel died in Avatar. http://collider.com/avatar-2-sequels-news-james-cameron/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:50 PM

Frist, SECOND I think you may be smarter than many of us. Second, or point two is, I think you are very upset Wash was killed off. I.E. the thread to the script you always post. And the concurrent point I would make is I think you are enjoying all this, he said she said. Which suggests I believe you are real and not a spambot.

You can bet I will be checking out the links you post. Great sketch of Serenity over the dictionary. Hope this is new to you. Serenity with a facelift. ( Beautiful isn't she )

SECOND

Saturday, April 5, 2014 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Second, I think you are very upset Wash was killed off. And the concurrent point I would make is I think you are enjoying all this.

Yes, I am enjoying.

Did anybody notice that Avatar (2009) reused the idea of Wash's mode of death? Colonel Quaritch got a wood shaft through the chest. And yet the actor playing the Colonel is returning in the sequels. http://collider.com/avatar-2-sequels-news-james-cameron/ There is hope for Wash returning.

I changed my mind about Wash's death. Originally I disliked that everybody on the bridge (Mal, Zoe, Wash) could see the Reavers out the front window and did not react. That ugly ship was big and close and had just shot them down! How do you ignore that danger? The audience couldn't see what was coming, but Mal should have. Or Zoe.

But a good short story, which changed my mind, was written a week after the movie came out about Wash's death. So, Joss Whedon is forgiven for killing Wash. It was all worthwhile. Too bad Joss didn't turn an expanded version of that story into a year long run of comics. http://kieyra.livejournal.com/186086.html or www.fireflyfans.net/bluesun.aspx?bid=5185

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Sunday, April 6, 2014 12:31 AM

I heard Joss suggest that he did in Wash because, he wanted to express to the audience he would actually kill of other stars of the show to keep us in suspense. If he killed Wash would someone else be next? Since he believed this was the last of the show. He wanted the fans to go through the ending on a roller-coaster of expatiations of what was to come.

I don't hear people discuss it much but I was disappointed about Wash and Book. It suggested to me a finality of the show I still do not want to concede.

While I liked the ending where Wash lived in the Magic script you posted a link to. I have to admit reluctantly, I have not see Avatar.

WISHIMAY

Sunday, April 6, 2014 1:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
You didn't ask me what my picture means: Summer Glau is a marine biologist with a submarine in Avatar

That's because Avatar was pretentious Hollyweird drivel, and like The Wrath of Khan reboot it does a great job of dazzling people who can't see beyond hype and judge for themselves...I'm sorry I took the time to watch it ONCE. Bad acting, insincere plot, not believable love story...The only thing good about it was THE CGI!!!

I really don't understand how you get soo caught up in these weird fantasist delusions that are NEVER gonna happen. You do it all the time too, trying to tell people how storylines SHOULD go and they are always so far out in left field you're playing you're OWN GAME. Go write some childrens stories, because lack of logic still works when you're four...

MIKER

Sunday, April 6, 2014 2:00 AM

Wow, Wishimay what brought that on? It is all fantasy is it not? It is what I use as an escape from the struggle of the day to day grind. Of which, I am feeling a lot of lately. It is what brought me to this site.

I feel more than a bit responsible for this. I started this conversation by pursuing SECOND. Who I appreciate responding to me.

I am figuring you are having a bad day because your thing if I may say is being very inviting and helpful to all. It is what I appreciate most about you. SECOND is doing what SECOND likes to do. It is nothing more than that.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:21 AM

Aww, don't pay it no mind, MIKER. Small ship. People bound to get on each others' nerves here & there. A little tussle never hurt no one.

WISHIMAY

Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:

I feel more than a bit responsible for this. I started this conversation by pursuing SECOND. Who I appreciate responding to me.

I am figuring you are having a bad day

Miker, no offence man, this has NOTHING to do with you at all. I am not having a bad day. Like I said I've been around here a long time, and Two and I rarely see eye to eye on anything. People have passionate discussions here, but it don't mean 'nothing. I'll still be here tomorrow, and so will he. I'd recommend not going to the Real World Discussion Threads if you don't like to see people disagree.

MIKER

Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:53 AM

This whole post was about SECOND responding to me. If you don't like what is posted you don't have to comment. Just move on. This is not a discussion about god or politics and should not illicit that kind of response.

Just my opinion:

WISHIMAY

Sunday, April 6, 2014 4:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
This whole post was about SECOND responding to me. If you don't like what is posted you don't have to comment. Just move on. This is not a discussion about god or politics and should not illicit that kind of response.

You've been here a whole five seconds and you're already telling me how I should and shouldn't comment??? When you don't even have a CLUE???

Just because you started a thread, don't make you god of it. I'll reply to whom and about what I like. Welcome to itza FREE DAMN COUNTRY.

Just because I'm the welcome wagon, doesn't mean I'm Mistress of Peace and Tranquility and opinionless. Fights happen. Welcome TO THE INTERNET.

He used my valid question to pander to yet another useless agenda which again you know nothin' about.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 6, 2014 4:51 AM

Oh, a tussle...

MOOSE

Sunday, April 6, 2014 5:55 AM

lol

MIKER

Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:28 AM

I live in the outside world and needed a distraction. You sure do provide that. In spades. Sometimes 5 seconds is enough to see the layout. It is for me anyway. Try anger management. I will not be looking back I am moving on. I will read newer posts and make them. I, like SECOND has learned to do, will ignore you when you go off your meds.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
I will read newer posts and make them. I, like SECOND has learned to do, will ignore you when you go off your meds.

MIKER, read the posts you want, have fun, but please don't come in to a new situation & preach. "Meds"? That's just a bit too troll-like IMO.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 6, 2014 6:59 AM

Removed.

ECGORDON

Sunday, April 6, 2014 7:18 AM

I think everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath, and back away from this thread before something else is said that might be regretted later. There's no point in name-calling and trash talk.

We're all just folk here. Please don't take the sky from me.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

WISHIMAY

Sunday, April 6, 2014 7:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:

WARNING: SOCKPUPPETRY DETECTED. "MIKER" HAS WAITED LESS THAN ONE LUNAR CYCLE BEFORE BECOMING MEAN AND JUDGEMENTAL. NON-SEQUITUR. "MIKER" IS FALSE. PROBABILITY THAT HE IS INDIGENOUS MEMBER.

Naw, couldn't be- I've had to explain how every little thing here works. He's naturally grumpy though, as he's already complained about thirty times and he's only been here a week (chat don't work the way he want it to, heh)

Ironically, he's going for social work and no one could be more FOR kids than me (and Frem), but if he's gonna last five minutes HERE OR OUT THERE he's gonna have to see arguing as conflict resolution and not as assault...
No better place for that than here, it's where I learned it

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 6, 2014 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I think everyone needs to calm down, take a deep breath, and back away from this thread before something else is said that might be regretted later

The mere mention of "Meds" is inflammatory. A small amount of thought before a potentially hurtful post is all I ask.
Otherwise I could go all Mal.

SECOND

Sunday, April 6, 2014 9:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:

I really don't understand how you get soo caught up in these weird fantasist delusions that are NEVER gonna happen. You do it all the time too . . .

This is good. Ventilate your feelings. Better out than in.

A video called The physicist as novelist: Alan Lightman was posted on youtube, April 1, 2014

Scientists and artists are seeking truth. In the sciences, it is truth in the world of mass and force -- the external world -- and in the arts, it is truth in the world of the mind and the heart -- the internal world.

Inspired by Alan Lightman's video, my spin on comic books:
There is a large catalog of known behavior and human psychology that a good writer must stay within. Study it, then use it in your art. Only certain things, even though a large variety, can happen with humans. I know, I know, comic books are full of never-will-exist people in impossible situations, so why can't those rules be broken on every sixth page?

Many comic book ( and TV and movie) writers freely throw away the catalog of behavior and psychology. They are under tremendous pressure, because of deadlines and production schedules, to make it all up and to hell with consistency with human nature -- not all writers can be James Joyce. And their comic books feel false and their readers either can make their very own quick, ad hoc, explanations for characters' actions inconsistent with being real humans, since writer did not do the mental work necessary because time ran out, or the readers can stop reading bad art.

And, while I'm sad Jodorowsky didn't make Dune, I probably wouldn't have understood it. - www.fthismovie.net/2014/04/review-jodorowskys-dune-adam-riskes-take.ht
ml

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Monday, April 7, 2014 6:25 AM

Summer Glau and Alan Tudyk were at St Louis Comic Con this weekend.
The all inclusive source for Firefly actor appearances is http://fireflyactorappearances.blogspot.com/

http://skys-gal.deviantart.com/art/Summer-Glau-445569083

http://skys-gal.deviantart.com/art/Alan-Tudyk-St-Louis-Comic-Con-44556
8808

Alan Tudyk recalling executive producer Gail Berman's feelings about canceling Firefly, from this weekend at St. Louis Comic Con. Alan references Gail Berman's wiki at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Berman

I did not know until now that it was Gail Berman who decided to put Firefly into the Friday Night Death Slot. From regret, she has decided to put "Sorry I canceled Firefly" on her tombstone.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

WISHIMAY

Monday, April 7, 2014 7:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

Scientists and artists are seeking truth. In the sciences, it is truth in the world of mass and force -- the external world -- and in the arts, it is truth in the world of the mind and the heart -- the internal world.

Here's the thing...

You like internal imagination land sooo much, that most of your plot ideas are just pure randomness. Most people exist and operate within tangible, plausible land because CHAOS IS ANNOYING!!! You may be good at imagination, but you are shite at communication, and it's kinda necessary if you want anyone to listen to you. Every single time you've pitched a plot I've thought "I'd like to smoke what he's smokin'"

Just so you fully understand, I'm married to a guy that has Aspergers. My life revolves around understanding the unintelligible and the esoteric. At one time, my life also revolved around art and the abstract. I've had conversations with hundreds of people all over the globe and at least been able to see where each one is coming from. What I don't get??? YOU.

SECOND

Monday, April 7, 2014 8:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
What I don't get??? YOU.

Alan Tudyk - "What If King Candy & Alpha Fought?" at Wizard World NOLA 2014

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Monday, April 7, 2014 4:51 PM

Loving these posts SECOND.

BYTEMITE

Monday, April 7, 2014 8:26 PM

That fire burned fast.

This wasn't a mere argument or conflict resolution, it's a flame war. It's kinda sad that things around here have gotten so tense that we don't even notice the difference anymore.

SECOND

Monday, April 7, 2014 8:29 PM

There is a Firefly website with joke art that is worth your while. www.etakooramnahsmech.com/

www.etakooramnahsmech.com/?p=600
Why didn’t Mal give Tracy a message in The Message?

By the same artist there is a gallery of Firefly characters at http://rubbishdesigner.deviantart.com/gallery/45978929
The portraits are deliberately without features, making it easy (maybe less difficult?) to imagine yourself as one of them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

BYTEMITE

Monday, April 7, 2014 8:46 PM

Mal didn't tell Tracey because Tracey didn't want to listen. And started shooting people.

SECOND

Monday, April 7, 2014 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Mal didn't tell Tracey because Tracey didn't want to listen. And started shooting people.

I think the reason with Tracey was the same as why Mal shoots the Alliance military man who was trying to surrender on Haven. It had nothing to do with justice in Mal's mind. When somebody gets in his way and will never again be useful to Mal, they become targets, things, not people to be persuaded. It is automatic, a reflex, with Mal. He doesn't need to think before pulling the trigger. It is instinct.

That's why Mal killed all of Patience's men but left her alive. Patience was still worth dealing with in the future and her men weren't.

Same thing happened to the guy named Crow, who Mal kicked into Serenity's engine. Crow declared he wouldn't be Mal's bagman and then he made a death threat to Mal and then Mal killed him and moved on to the next guy and asked him to be the bagman. I'll take a leap of imagination and say that the next guy would have also died if he had refused Mal's demands.

It is all about Mal's instincts. Ethics, morals, rules of war don't guide him. Maybe he feels bad later, but not at the moment of the kill. It feels right.

Same thing with Zoe. Jayne would be different. That guy was never remorseful about anybody he killed. And Book constantly regrets every kill, even the ones that deserved it.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Monday, April 7, 2014 10:36 PM

"That's why Mal killed all of Patience's men but left her alive. Patience was still worth dealing with in the future and her men weren't". SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Mal shot the last of Patience's men in the leg. After that guy had just shot Mal in the arm. He didn't kill him. Mal shot those who needed shooting without regret but not unless it needed doing.

Jayne killed Tracey.

BYTEMITE

Monday, April 7, 2014 10:52 PM

> It had nothing to do with justice in Mal's mind.

Oooor Mal has a different concept of justice than you do. It happens.

Considering all the people you mentioned Mal killing in cold blood were in fact people who were actively trying to kill them or threatening to kill them or retroactively tried to kill him and the crew and other people at the time, I'm not really sure they're more sympathetic than he is.

MIKER

Monday, April 7, 2014 11:15 PM

Mal also could have popped one off on the guy who shot him in out of gas. He could kill coldly and did but not without a reason. Like he had to.

" Just doing what you would have done. Well as you can clearly see I haven't ". Mal and the guy who shot him parting words.

SECOND

Monday, April 7, 2014 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:

Mal shot the last of Patience's men in the leg. After that guy had just shot Mal in the arm. He didn't kill him. Mal shot those who needed shooting without regret but not unless it needed doing.

Jayne killed Tracey.

I'll say Mal was looking more at his bullet-torn sleeve than at the target, so he missed killing him. Zoe did shoot somebody in the back while he was escaping on a horse. Get in the way of Mal, Zoe or Jayne and you're almost surely dead. Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust. First thing that comes to his mind is killing them. There are exceptions: when Mal is not doing the planning. Inara left Saffron in the garbage bin. Inara doesn't instinctively kill problems in order to deal with them. Mal did not kill Saffron the other time, possibly because Inara would not approve of coldblooded murder of women. Mal didn't kill the sword duelist, either. He can restrain himself when Inara is watching.

Another time Mal was expecting Jubal Early to suffocate in space. To Mal's regret that did not happen and Early returned in a comic book, more dangerous than before. I don't expect Early to survive Mal, unless Mal can use him to rescue Zoe. Waiting for the next issue to find out.

And to Tracey Mal said You mailed your ugly business to me. I'll go to Hell before I watch you turn and bite us for the favor. Something like that. That's the death sentence. Mal didn't have to pull the trigger. Zoe, Jayne or the police could do it for him.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 12:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
then Mal killed him and moved on to the next guy and asked him to be the bagman. I'll take a leap of imagination and say that the next guy would have also died if he had refused Mal's demands.

Nah, he wouldn't have. UNLESS that one also started a rant about hunting them all down & killing them too. Fortunately, he was smarter than that.
I think you may not be rememberin' that "Darn" that Mal muttered before he kicked Crow out; he doesn't enjoy killin' no one.

SECOND

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 12:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
then Mal killed him and moved on to the next guy and asked him to be the bagman. I'll take a leap of imagination and say that the next guy would have also died if he had refused Mal's demands.
Nah, he wouldn't have. UNLESS that one also started a rant about hunting them all down & killing them too. Fortunately, he was smarter than that.
I think you may not be rememberin' that "Darn" that Mal muttered before he kicked Crow out; he doesn't enjoy killin' no one.

Mal is not a psycho serial murderer; killing is his most expeditious method to handle people problems. When Inara would disapprove, Mal finds a less efficient, longer path to a solution.

"Since when is killing wrong? I missed that lesson in Sunday Bible school. All I remember are those Old Testament stories about slaying God's foes. I watched a lot of TV, too." - Mal Reynolds

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:08 AM

"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:25 AM

I think you are being a little hard on Mal SECOND. In Heart of Gold Inara gave Mal the go ahead when the town tyrant killed her friend. It was written all over her face when she and Mal exchanged glances. Yet he didn't. After Mal pushed Early into nothingness in Objects in Space, Mal and Inara were in front of the infirmary. Inara implied in the way she asked Mal if he would survive, she could care less. Besides, Early had taken Mal on pretty easily a few minutes before. It would not be prudent to give the guy a chance.

The best example that Mal played to win was in serenity. When the operative
said to Mal, " I am unarmed " and Mal said " good " and shot him. He would do what he knew or believed he had to. No more, no less.

P.S. Anyone who has or does own a gun. Should know DON'T PULL IT UNLESS YOU INTEND TO USE IT. THE NEXT RULE IS SHOOT TO KILL.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:31 AM

Quote:
Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

One word:

River.

Your characterization analysis is flawed and inaccurate.

SECOND

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."

Jayne isn't as scrupulous as Mal, Jayne shoots first in Our Mrs Reynolds and Serenity, the pilot episode. Waiting for the other guy to shoot at Jayne first is inefficient.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."
Jayne isn't as scrupulous as Mal, Jayne shoots first in Our Mrs Reynolds and Serenity, the pilot episode. Waiting for the other guy to shoot at Jayne first is inefficient.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:44 AM

"If someone tries to kill you, you try and kill 'em right back."

Jayne isn't as scrupulous as Mal, Jayne shoots first in Our Mrs Reynolds and Serenity, the pilot episode. Waiting for the other guy to shoot at Jayne first is inefficient.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Jayne is a horse of a different color. We all should be able to see the difference between Mal and Jayne. It is very apparent.

SORRY, I HAVEN'T YET MASTERED HOW TO QUOTE SOMEONE IN THIS CONTEXT.

SECOND

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 1:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

One word:

River.

Your characterization analysis is flawed and inaccurate.

You are right. We can add to Mal's decision tree about who not to kill. There are a few humans that he gives full status as being people not to be killed on a whim. Jayne can thank his lucky stars that he made it into that group. River has saved Mal enough times, maybe, to also be in that special group. Probably puppies and little children, too.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 2:15 AM

OK next. SECOND, have you met any of the cast of Firefly, say at a convention that you have pictures of? I am thinking of hitting the Minneapolis Comic Com in early May. I have checked out the cost of getting a picture with them and it is very expensive.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Mal never gives much thought to working out a way to deal with anybody dangerous or unworthy of his trust.

One word:

River.

Your characterization analysis is flawed and inaccurate.
You are right. We can add to Mal's decision tree about who not to kill. There are a few humans that he gives full status as being people not to be killed on a whim. Jayne can thank his lucky stars that he made it into that group. River has saved Mal enough times, maybe, to also be in that special group. Probably puppies and little children, too.

Made it nothing. He didn't kill River when he first saw her despite her bringing a Fed and possibly the threat of the rest of the Alliance down on them. And she'd done nothing to help them at that point.

If it was really just about usefulness or threats or whether he personally knows the person for Mal, she and Simon would have been outright dead.

If it was just about whether he could trust people, Jayne would be dead.

The most we can say is that he only shoots people who are a danger to himself and others, and sometimes not even then. While it's a form of vigilantism, and different from what you might consider ethical or moral, it is not UNethical or A-moral.

Furthermore, he seems to have greatly exaggerated sense of what is NOT a risk, because he seems to allow risks no sane person would.

As such this idea that he kills on a whim is incorrect. There are numerous factors that go into that determination. The fact that we see him kill so often is a product of the episodic nature and genre of the series - it's not interesting for the viewer to watch him go weeks without a brawl or a shootout, so none of the episodes really ever focus on those other times.

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:36 AM

Mal said it to Book in Serenity. " I had an out, ( referring to bringing River back onboard Serenity after the bar fight scene ). Book replied, it's not your way".

This to me shows he went so far as to protect some at great risk to himself. Remember why Tracey said he picked Mal and Zoe to involve in his scheme. They were saps.

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 4:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Furthermore, he seems to have greatly exaggerated sense of what is NOT a risk, because he seems to allow risks no sane person would.

Good points. MIKERs' are too.

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 5:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Furthermore, he seems to have greatly exaggerated sense of what is NOT a risk, because he seems to allow risks no sane person would.

Good points. MIKERs' are too.

To BYTEMITE'S point, Mal offered to help Inara's friend in Heart of Gold without payment. He told Saffron he bested her because he had the help of others. Friends that due for others and are not always thinking of themselves. Mal was a good guy who was fighting to hold onto his humanity.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 5:29 AM

Although this isn't tangential to the "Mal killing people on a whim discussion" the thing with Nandi isn't the only time he's been a do-gooder for free. He also decides to play hero for the people on Triumph in Our Mrs. Reynolds at the beginning, stopping some bandits who were preying on the technologically helpless population.

MIKER

Tuesday, April 8, 2014 5:51 AM

I think it does apply. We are talking about Mal's Character. The totality of the man and you make a good point by pointing out the type of jobs he takes. Remember in the train job what he did when he found out what he had stolen. A cold blooded killer would not have returned the medicine.

MIKER

Wednesday, April 9, 2014 8:52 PM

Also, listen to Inara begin to describe Mal to her client in Jayne's' Town. He is a man of honor.

ECGORDON

Wednesday, April 9, 2014 11:19 PM

"A man of honor in a den of thieves," as Badger put it. :)

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 12:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
"A man of honor in a den of thieves," as Badger put it. :)

Ya nailed it.

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BYTEMITE

Thursday, April 10, 2014 1:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Also, listen to Inara begin to describe Mal to her client in Jayne's' Town. He is a man of honor.

She isn't really an impartial character witness though...

The Operative you could make an argument for being impartial. Although he has a kinda skewed perspective on what constitutes honourable or noble, but he's done the profiling and he respects the captain without liking him. Enough to admit he's a monster who kills unjustly and Mal isn't. Enough to say that Mal will be a man of reason/honour or play the brigand depending on what the situation is.

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic with the "man of honour in a den of thieves" comment.

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:22 AM

BYTEMITE
Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic with the "man of honour in a den of thieves" comment.

I think Badger was speaking to his perception of Mal's way of thinking. I believe he believed what he was saying.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 10, 2014 3:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.

He was questioning Mal's view of himself in Badger & Co.'s presence.

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 4:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.
He was questioning Mal's view of himself in Badger & Co.'s presence.

I seem to remember Badger suggesting to Mal that "He Badger" thought Mal was still a sergeant and saw himself as man of honor in a den of thieves. Badger did not like the way Mal saw himself as better than them.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 10, 2014 4:26 AM

Yep.

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 6:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Yep.

Yep

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL:
I just noticed the Star Ship Enterprise in your logo. Yeah ! I Love that series also.

CHRISISALL

Thursday, April 10, 2014 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
CHRISISALL:
I just noticed the Star Ship Enterprise in your logo. Yeah ! I Love that series also.

The only TV series I love more than Firefly...

MIKER

Thursday, April 10, 2014 9:08 AM

I get it, and what is nice about it is their is enough to allow for a lot of viewing enjoyment. It is not like you could watch it all in a day.

Two bad SECOND isn't a fan. We would be seeing a lot of great art work and links.

BYTEMITE

Friday, April 11, 2014 12:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CHRISISALL:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Badgers assessment is also probably objective, though not for the reason Badger meant.
He was questioning Mal's view of himself in Badger & Co.'s presence.

Yes, that's what I mean. Badger is pointing out the very fact that Mal is IN a den of thieves looking to do business, means that in Badger's view Mal isn't quite as honourable as he tries to assert. Certainly not better than Badger.

He's basically telling Mal he's a hypocrite and to get off his high horse.

But removed from that context, Badger's assessment is still pretty accurate.

MIKER

Friday, April 11, 2014 3:06 AM

Yes you are on the money. However, Mal sees himself as not being as cut throat and unscrupulous as the others. That goes to the original question of what kind of man is he? Is he a cold blooded killer? Remember Badger was inspecting a girls teeth when Mal walked in, in that episode. She was to be sold. Then remember how Mal was with Saffron. That is how the discussion began. What kind of man IS Mal. Remember when Mal was being torchered in War Stories. His torcherer suggested to Mal there was no room in business for being honorable because Mal gave the medicine back. Mal's strength of character shows up over and over again. The way he looks after River. Badgers perception is just that, a perception. Badger has a need to lift himself up in his own eyed." Member of the Community ", is who he thinks he is. Mal's actions show him to be what Badger thinks he is not. Better than him. I suspect Badger knows this.

SECOND

Friday, April 11, 2014 6:43 PM

What kind of man is Mal? There are new kinks in his personality from episode to episode.

Read Mal's dialog in Heart of Gold. Watch Nandi and Inara manipulate Mal into a war with Rance's gunmen. These women grab hold of Mal's honor and lead him around like he is a bull with a rope in his nose-ring.

INARA It sounds like the sort of thing this crew can handle. I can't guarantee they'll handle it particularly well, but --

NANDI If they got guns, and brains at all...

INARA They have guns.

NANDI (worried) Payment won't be a problem. We just ain't equipped for this.

INARA Nandi, it's gonna be all right.

INARA (cont'd) I suppose you heard most of that?

MAL Only 'cause I was eavesdropping. Your friend sounds like she's in a peck of trouble.

INARA She is. There's no authority on that moon she can turn to. They're totally alone.

MAL Some men might take advantage of that.

INARA One man.

MAL And she's lookin' for someone to come along and “explain” things to him?

INARA That's essentially it, yes.

%******%

NANDI And you see the way we live here. Go into town, it's the same. Some places come up rustic 'cause they ain't got more'n the basics. Rance Burgess has money enough to build a city, a real community. He keeps people living like this so he can play cowboy, be the one with the best toys. Turned this moon into a gorram theme park. Someone stands up to him... He means to burn me out.

MAL He sounds like a fun guy. I'd like to meet him.

NANDI This won't be solved with talk.

MAL I'm gonna fight a man, it helps to size him up.

%******%

INARA Well?

MAL Well what?

INARA You said you wanted to look him in the eye. You've done that. So what's the plan?

MAL Plan is -- we get back to Serenity and we get off this rock just as fast we can.

%******%

NANDI Rance Burgess is just a man... And I won't let any man take what's mine. I doubt you'd do different, in my position.

Eyes still locked on each other, a stalemate of personal cool, until Mal shakes his head slightly.

MAL Well, lady I must say-- (admiring smile) You're my kinda stupid.

He turns to Zoe and the rest of his crew.

MAL (cont'd) Y'heard my points of contention with this thing. But I got a lifetime of good night's rest to consider, so I'm goin' back on that.

Dithering back and forth, Mal finally chooses the option with the highest body count. There is one option Mal never goes near until Nandi is dead. Petaline takes that option with Mal's help: kill Rance Burgess in cold blood, without all of Mal's heroics and honor. The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Friday, April 11, 2014 7:42 PM

I remember all that and can see the exchanges in my head as I read your post. I have to say the first part is a bit of comic relief. Of course Mal is going to help Inara's friend Nandi. Mal is in love with and loyal to Inara, and yes she is capable of manipulating Mal.

Inara and Nandi are my kink of trouble!

BYTEMITE

Friday, April 11, 2014 9:39 PM

Quote:
The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.

Mal isn't prescient either. Nandi's death isn't the result of him deciding that he wanted a good fight and a high body count. It was a result of Nandi's own decision to not take Mal up on his offer to transport all of them off world. Without help, Rance was going to continue bullying them and probably eventually kill them all because that's just the kinda guy he was, and so Mal couldn't in good conscience just leave them to that.

If you think Mal being involved led to more death than if he wasn't involved, then you have one seriously twisted perception of his character. Nandi won him over because he could relate to her situation. He knows what it's like to have to fight for your home and your family against the aggression of others.

MIKER

Friday, April 11, 2014 9:50 PM

I think Nadia's choice to stay goes to SECEONDS point that she maneuvered Mal into the fight instead of flight. I am assuming Inara was not going to run out on her friend. There for Mal stays.

I also think BYTEMITE you are correct that Mals staying insured a much better future for those left on the planet. Rance had to go.

BYTEMITE

Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
I think Nadia's choice to stay goes to SECEONDS point that she maneuvered Mal into the fight instead of flight. I am assuming Inara was not going to run out on her friend. There for Mal stays.

I also think BYTEMITE you are correct that Mals staying insured a much better future for those left on the planet. Rance had to go.

Ooh, good points.

MIKER

Saturday, April 12, 2014 1:48 AM

BYTEMITE
Ooh, good points.

It's fun to remember and discuss. I have watched this stuff alone and had no one to share it with. I don't have friends who are fans.

SECOND

Saturday, April 12, 2014 8:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.

Mal isn't prescient either. Nandi's death isn't the result of him deciding that he wanted a good fight and a high body count. It was a result of Nandi's own decision to not take Mal up on his offer to transport all of them off world. Without help, Rance was going to continue bullying them and probably eventually kill them all because that's just the kinda guy he was, and so Mal couldn't in good conscience just leave them to that.

If you think Mal being involved led to more death than if he wasn't involved, then you have one seriously twisted perception of his character. Nandi won him over because he could relate to her situation. He knows what it's like to have to fight for your home and your family against the aggression of others.

Mal does not need prescience to know that Rance, the sociopath and narcissist, will be leading a posse and showing off his shiny laser pistol to burn down the whorehouse. But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.

Mal has got to know Rance is so deranged he will never let his child be raised by Petaline at the whorehouse. Rance will be taking his heir back home. Rance has run his loud mouth to everyone about the child. He has to take the child. And Mal still waits for Rance to make the first move, giving Rance a tactical advantage. Mal can be thankful that Rance is overconfident, along with other faults. Otherwise, Rance would have won, Mal would die.

I got another example where Mal wasn't thinking ahead, but this time his lack of planning worked well. With Rance, Mal was being too slow to kill. With Jayne, he was being too quick. It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim. Mal dumps Jayne into the airlock in the episode Ariel. He certainly taught Jayne a lesson, except Mal's first intent had been to kill Jayne before the crew could stop him. Rance needed killing before he gathered a posse, not Jayne.

If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him. Jayne had more good sense than Mal, which says Mal is in deep mental trouble.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

ECGORDON

Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:11 PM

Second, you sure do put a lot of time and effort into analyzing fictional characters. The only ones deserving of your criticisms are the writers.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

SECOND

Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Second, you sure do put a lot of time and effort into analyzing fictional characters. The only ones deserving of your criticisms are the writers.

The writers did a very good job. It is the audience that is not seeing Mal for who the writers made him. Maybe there needed to be a half hour show after each episode, like Talking Dead after Walking Dead, to explain it to the viewers, so they don't overly romanticize Mal. He is Jesse James, another romanticized outlaw, of the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

Jesse James has museums and festivals named for him, just letting you know. Mal will get his.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Saturday, April 12, 2014 9:58 PM

Mal is not a hit man. All he could do as far as Ranse goes is prepare and wait. Ranse has to start the confrentation. When Mal shoots the operative in the movie, the operative had already threatened to blow Serenity out of the sky. That began the confrontation. With patenice in the movie, refusing to leave even after Mal gave her the money back means she to started the confrontation. Do you see a petteren here?

Jayne betrayed Mal and others in the crew. Jayne started the confrontation and Mal felt he could nolonger trust him. Jayne also knew to much to just kick lose. Mal decided to let Jayne live because he showed remorse and shame at what he did. This was when he asked Mal not to tell the others what he did, but instead to make something up.

If the winds blow north so does Mal. What you start, he will finnish.

SECOND

Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
Mal is not a hit man.

Mal did get paid to kill Rance, with Petaline pulling the trigger. Rance was killed execution style. It does look like a hit.

Quote:
All he could do as far as Ranse goes is prepare and wait. Ranse has to start the confrentation.

Really? Only if Mal wants to appear "honorable" to a TV audience. I prefer him "honorable", but his honor costs other people their lives.

Quote:
When Mal shoots the operative in the movie, the operative had already threatened to blow Serenity out of the sky. That began the confrontation.

It looked to me like Mal botched the killing of the Operative, which really wasn't smart for Mal to turn his back on an angry assassin.

Quote:
With patenice in the movie, refusing to leave even after Mal gave her the money back means she to started the confrontation. Do you see a petteren here?

Do you remember Zoe reminding Mal of Patience's trustworthiness? It was food that these two were trading. If you've seen the recent comics where he is short of food, Mal should have saved that food and stayed far away from Patience. But no . . . he needs a confrontation to feel really alive. He is Jesse James of the future. By the way, Frank James, Jesse's brother, was smart enough to retire. Following James would get him killed. Following Mal will get Zoe killed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_James#Outlaw_years_and_retirement

Quote:
Jayne betrayed Mal and others in the crew. Jayne made the first move and Mal could nolonger trust him. Jayne also knew to much to just kick lose. Mal decided to let Jayne live because he showed remorse and shame at what he did. Jayne displayed this when he asked Mal not to tell the others what he did,but instead to make something up.

Do you really think Jayne is trustworthy? In the most recent comic, Jayne is remorseful and shamed. He is still untrustworthy when he is not being closely supervised by Mal.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

BYTEMITE

Saturday, April 12, 2014 10:48 PM

Quote:
But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.

Too busy doing nothing... while everyone else except the pregnancy team is SLEEPING because they want to be in top form for the fight tomorrow. How horrible that Mal is HUMAN just like everyone else around him, what a monster.

Quote:
It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.

[....]

If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.

YEP. Because Jayne just betrayed them and demonstrated that he cared more about money than any of them OR ethics. Mal gave Jayne a second chance because Jayne indicated that he DID care about them after all.

It's official. There's no way you actually believe what you're saying. And if you do, it's not worth arguing with you because it would be impossible to change your mind.

Seriously, the hell with this. I am so tired of putting up with all the constant bickering. Now it's not even contained to the RWED, it's spilled out into Firefly itself. Whatever, see you all in another month when the next comic comes out and I get bored enough again.

SECOND

Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.

Too busy doing nothing... while everyone else except the pregnancy team is SLEEPING because they want to be in top form for the fight tomorrow. How horrible that Mal is HUMAN just like everyone else around him, what a monster.

Quote:
It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.

[....]

If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.

YEP. Because Jayne just betrayed them and demonstrated that he cared more about money than any of them OR ethics. Mal gave Jayne a second chance because Jayne indicated that he DID care about them after all.

It's official. There's no way you actually believe what you're saying. And if you do, it's not worth arguing with you because it would be impossible to change your mind.

Seriously, the hell with this. I am so tired of putting up with all the constant bickering. Now it's not even contained to the RWED, it's spilled out into Firefly itself. Whatever, see you all in another month when the next comic comes out and I get bored enough again.

There is no bickering going on here. Roger Ebert used to go step by step through a movie, with an audience watching, stopping at each critical moment. Then he'd talk about what's happened. We need to do the same with Mal and Jayne in the airlock.

I'm not Ebert, but I can stop a video. When Jayne said, "Make something up," Jayne saved his own life. At that moment Mal changed his mind about killing Jayne. Mal is not the man to give careful thought about killing. There is something seriously wrong with that. Maybe Mal was just pretending to get a confession from Jayne. I think not.

MAL You called the Feds, didn't you?

With that, the fight goes out of Jayne. He knows he's busted. No use in lying to the captain. A long beat, then Jayne tries to explain himself.

JAYNE Money was too good to pass up.

MAL I should've shot you the second I found out what you did.

JAYNE That would've been the right thing.

Jayne takes a long moment, looking at the ramp. He really thinks he's going to die here.

JAYNE (cont'd) What are you gonna tell the others?

MAL About what?

JAYNE 'Bout why I'm dead.

MAL Hadn't thought about it.

JAYNE Do me a favor... (beat, genuine) Make something up. Don't tell them what I did.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Saturday, April 12, 2014 11:50 PM

I will use one of your points SECOND to explain my thinking. Mal did not get paid to kill Ranse. All may have believed it would come to that but that was just the outcome. Remember Mal suggesting to Inare in her shuttle he was going to explain it to Ranse. Big difference. I think you may be missing the point of cause and effect in your observations.

Your post of the script is great. It is right there in black and white. Jayne betrayed the crew. Mal confronted him and when Jayne showed true remorse Mal gave him a second chance.(no pun intended).I think your explanations SECOND are perceptions; coming from reading into the minds of the characters, rather than observing any consistency in their behavior. I don't know but( Perhaps you ) SECOND are a conspiracist. What is the obvious never is and events have a much darker and confused meaning lurking beneath. Is that so?

When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the movie" your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

That said, I haven't seen any insults flying around, but instead differing points of view. Their have been some good arugrements made. Still I don't see you SECOND coming to the tabe as far as agreeing on anything. That's OK.

While I like to discuss these types of things, I agree with BYTEMITE that if we can find no common ground maybe we should give it a rest.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the move " your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

That was Mal sayin' he loved her (not that he realized it, 'course). He doesn't like to love. It complicates matters.

MIKER

Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the move " your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.
That was Mal sayin' he loved her (not that he realized it, 'course). He doesn't like to love. It complicates matters.

Yes, CHRISISALL I agree with your point of view on this. Her confusing him did evolve around his love for her.

SECOND

Sunday, April 13, 2014 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
I will use one of your points SECOND to explain my thinking. Mal did not get paid to kill Ranse. All may have believed it would come to that but that was just the outcome. Remember Mal suggesting to Inare in her shuttle he was going to explain it to Ranse. Big difference. I think you may be missing the point of cause and effect in your observations.

Your post of the script is great. It is right there in black and white. Jayne betrayed the crew. Mal confronted him and when Jayne showed true remorse Mal gave him a second chance.(no pun intended).I think your explanations SECOND are perceptions; coming from reading into the minds of the characters, rather than observing any consistency in their behavior. I don't know but( Perhaps you ) SECOND are a conspiracist. What is the obvious never is and events have a much darker and confused meaning lurking beneath. Is that so?

When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the movie" your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.

That said, I haven't seen any insults flying around, but instead differing points of view. Their have been some good arugrements made. Still I don't see you SECOND coming to the tabe as far as agreeing on anything. That's OK.

While I like to discuss these types of things, I agree with BYTEMITE that if we can find no common ground maybe we should give it a rest.

There are good TV shows about a chemist cooking meth who kills, a psycho politician who kills a reporter, a gangster who visits his shrink -- and kills. I can watch Mal when he acts bad. I can like Mal and Firefly without constant, never-ending rationalizing away any and every bad thing Mal does.

Let Mal be bad.

One thing about Mal that separates him from the meth chemist on Breaking Bad and the evil politician on House of Cards and the gangster on The Sopranos is that those people deserve death and Mal deserves life. He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.

http://www.deviantart.com/art/Firefly-poster-447094042

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

MIKER

Sunday, April 13, 2014 1:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second

One thing about Mal that separates him from the meth chemist on Breaking Bad and the evil politician on House of Cards and the gangster on The Sopranos is that those people deserve death and Mal deserves life. He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.
End Quote.

Miker
I agree Mal is picking himself up off the ground after the war, also that his humanity remains much in tacked. I would describe Mal as a badass not as a bad man. What you want of Mal for your viewing enjoyment is all about you and not who Mal is.

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CHRISISALL

Sunday, April 13, 2014 1:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.

As far as I'm concerned, Mal hit bottom on Haven. Book's death was the last straw. NOT killing the Operative was his salvation (in more ways than one). At the end of Serenity, he IS that much better man IMO.

MIKER

Sunday, April 13, 2014 1:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
He is on his way up after hitting the bottom. When he finally becomes a much better man, we will be thrilled for him.
As far as I'm concerned, Mal hit bottom on Haven. Book's death was the last straw. NOT killing the Operative was his salvation (in more ways than one). At the end of Serenity, he IS that much better man IMO.

Again I agree and am going to exit from this discussion. What I would add is, we have come at this from all angles now and I feel for me it is time to put it to bed.

SECOND

Sunday, April 13, 2014 6:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
we have come at this from all angles now and I feel for me it is time to put it to bed.

Mal's story is not finished. There are 3 issues left of "Leaves in the Wind". Mal is freeing Zoe from prison. He will show whether he has learned the subtle difference between bad (as in Biblical Ten commandment #6 ) and bad-ass. I want him to be both. I hope he lives up to his name: "Mal", bad in Latin.

Simple rationalizations (“Mal wasn't bad! That was necessary!” “Mal is a really good man in a really bad situation”) are completely against the very spirit of good television. The only person who should rationalize away Mal's badness is Inara, because she loves him. Everybody else, don't, unless you also are in love.

Need a definition of bad-ass? Of formidable strength or skill. Tough and dangerous. Bad-ass is not the same as bad. Mal can become more bad-ass as he becomes less bad. Book became a bigger bad-ass as he became less bad, showing how Mal can change. Read the Shepherd's Tale to see Book's ethical growth from teen to old man. Mal could follow the same path, but much faster. www.darkhorse.com/Books/17-221/Serenity-The-Shepherds-Tale
http://ali-radicali.deviantart.com/art/Malcolm-Reynolds-370390660

http://regeneratedarts.deviantart.com/art/Shepherd-Book-445085983

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THG

Saturday, December 26, 2020 10:45 PM

I came across this while on google.

cool

T

THG

Wednesday, January 5, 2022 9:28 PM

T

SECOND

Thursday, January 6, 2022 10:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

T

Not that American national politics is a TV show, but if he doesn't deviate from the apparent plot line, Trump is the main villain for the next few seasons.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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