Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2026 18:50
VIEWED: 62514
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SHINYGOODGUY

Wednesday, August 13, 2014 2:26 PM

On Saturday, Michael Brown, 18, was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St. Louis. The Ferguson Police Department has asserted that Brown assaulted the officer, whose name has not yet been released. Eyewitnesses, however, have disputed that claim and said Brown was killed while attempting to surrender or flee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing is that if the police account is true, then the cop who shot him is a hero and why wouldn't they release his name? After all he did attack a police officer with his bare hands, in a moving vehicle with an armed officer of the "law."

Shot him multiple times, and even shot him in the back, according to witness accounts.

SGG

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 13, 2014 4:08 PM

Accounts vary greatly, so the autopsy will be important in determining the truth.

Regardless, use of deadly force seems uncalled for here.

The rioting which followed accomplishes absolutely nothing though.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, August 14, 2014 3:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
On Saturday, Michael Brown, 18, was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St. Louis. The Ferguson Police Department has asserted that Brown assaulted the officer, whose name has not yet been released. Eyewitnesses, however, have disputed that claim and said Brown was killed while attempting to surrender or flee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing is that if the police account is true, then the cop who shot him is a hero and why wouldn't they release his name? After all he did attack a police officer with his bare hands, in a moving vehicle with an armed officer of the "law."

Shot him multiple times, and even shot him in the back, according to witness accounts.

SGG

Is this the one who's mommy complained that after raising her child to beat up or assault armed police officers, she is surprised that that is a lethal activity to pursue? The hospital treated the officer for facial injuries, probably obtained while the thug was running away from the officer, I suppose?
Not releasing an officer's name (plus temporarily placing any officer on desk duty or paid administrative leave) is a common aftermath of any officer involved shooting. Any department that did release such info would likely be sued.

Another???
Like who??
Was this one also carrying burglary tools, high on weed, attempting to murder the officer, possessing a lengthy rap sheet, and otherwise working to be a drain on society?

ELVISCHRIST

Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:14 AM

I'm sure all those morons from Bundy Ranch will be on the scene. Any. Fucking. Second. Now.

Sure they will.

Where are all you gun pussies now? When the pigs tried to collect legally-owed taxes from a white guy, y'all had a bitch fit.

Strange that you're so silent when it's just another black kid murdered by the pigs.

On second thought, that's not strange at all, is it?

AURAPTOR

Thursday, August 14, 2014 9:52 AM

Stranger still is the silence from Jesse & Al at all the black on black violence.

1KIKI

Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:33 AM

Logical fallacy

try to find which one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You and the other right whingers failed miserably at simple counting. Worse, when you were TOLD the numbers in the news, you failed to notice the glaringly discrepant graphic, cause, yanno, it showed what a miserable failure Obamacare was and that's all you wanted to know. That hit your gloat with a satisfying plop. And you literally couldn't see the facts.

But that's all in the past. Maybe you can redeem yourself by learning a little logic.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:33 PM

I'm going to ignore your usual Bullshit, and give you some facts instead, why don't we try that for a change.

He was an 18 year old, no arrest or conviction record, about to enter vocational college (I believe it was an engineering school). Once again, unarmed, who's only "crime" was that he was walking in the street with a friend.

I had not heard of the officer being treated for any wounds, but the young man who died was shot in the back (according to witnesses) and when he went down, held his hands up in the universal "surrender" position and the officer proceeded to shoot 6 more times. Two witnesses, who do not know each other, provided the almost identical account of the shooting.

Another?

A mentally challenged young man, unarmed, was shot dead by a LA officer, again, no reason was given, except that he was shot after being beaten by 2 cops. No further information was given as to why he was beaten or why he was shot. This happened on Monday.

Regardless of skin color, or any other info about the young man. It makes me wonder what was so terrible about a mentally ill young man that the police felt the need to use deadly force.

As of tonight, 2 reporters were arrested in Ferguson, MO for doing their job. What do the police have to hide in Ferguson? Police have appeared in full riot gear after Saturday's looting spree. I agree that looting should be punished to the full extent of the law, but the only reason why there aren't more dead black people in Ferguson is because there are 1000 news outlets that have descended upon them.

Looters and rioters should be arrested and tried by a judge and jury, not shot by a self-appointed executioner. That's not how it works in America. Maybe during the times when Hitler was the big man in town, but not in this country. During the height of the Nazi regime people were often shot on site and left to bleed out in the middle of the street in broad daylight, but not in America. If an officer is assaulted and injured during an arrest, he must follow a procedure, one that he is trained for.

You don't get to shoot someone because you got a boo boo. Not in America.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
On Saturday, Michael Brown, 18, was shot by a police officer in Ferguson, a suburb of St. Louis. The Ferguson Police Department has asserted that Brown assaulted the officer, whose name has not yet been released. Eyewitnesses, however, have disputed that claim and said Brown was killed while attempting to surrender or flee.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny thing is that if the police account is true, then the cop who shot him is a hero and why wouldn't they release his name? After all he did attack a police officer with his bare hands, in a moving vehicle with an armed officer of the "law."

Shot him multiple times, and even shot him in the back, according to witness accounts.

SGG

Is this the one who's mommy complained that after raising her child to beat up or assault armed police officers, she is surprised that that is a lethal activity to pursue? The hospital treated the officer for facial injuries, probably obtained while the thug was running away from the officer, I suppose?
Not releasing an officer's name (plus temporarily placing any officer on desk duty or paid administrative leave) is a common aftermath of any officer involved shooting. Any department that did release such info would likely be sued.

Another???
Like who??
Was this one also carrying burglary tools, high on weed, attempting to murder the officer, possessing a lengthy rap sheet, and otherwise working to be a drain on society?

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Accounts vary greatly, so the autopsy will be important in determining the truth.

SGG - Yes, there's the official police story, and then there's the eye witness accounts of what happened. The officer said that the young man reached for his gun and a struggle ensued. One witness said that the cop, who was driving, pulled his gun out and threatened to kill Brown. Why did the officer draw his gun? Brown was unarmed.

Regardless, use of deadly force seems uncalled for here.

SGG - True that. He was shot in the back while running away, and then raised his hands in "surrender" and was shot several times (6 or 7 times). Excessive deadly force.

The rioting which followed accomplishes absolutely nothing though.

SGG - I agree, it does not help matters at all.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, August 14, 2014 6:26 PM

1kiki - Wrong thread.

*snicker*

AURAPTOR

Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
FYI: President Obama will speak on Iraq and Ferguson at 12:15pm ET.

Seems he was late coming in from his morning round of golf. 12:40 is now the target for his Oneness to speak.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Thursday, August 14, 2014 10:55 PM

Shiny,
Saw your piece about the kid in L. A. I actually thought that that was the subject of the thread, from the header.

But I noticed this similarity: seems like the newest police defense for shooting an unarmed person is, "He was trying to get my gun." PD's in both cases are claiming that.

AURAPTOR

Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:06 PM

Wow. Brief speech & no follow up question.

" ...and now, back to my 2 week vacation! "

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

" ...and now, back to my 2 week vacation! "

Don't start up with the vacation thing.

Where are the heroic Republican white Congressmen who are "protecting" us from him? They took a 5 WEEK long vacation; the whole month of August, plus. Only they called it a "recess" or an "inter-session break."

If Obama is such a critical threat to our liberties and the Constitution, maybe they shoulda not recessed, but hung around in a special session and actually voted on impeachment or something.

But actually they did THE MOST IMPORTANT THING , for themselves. Went back home and sucked up to their voters, to make sure to keep their OWN jobs.

THGRRI

Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:51 PM

I can make all kinds of statements about why this always happens in black communities. I can take the African American argument based on their point of view and make it for them because a lot of it is true. What does that mean? It means nothing is going to change. I understand what made things the way they are but that is not what keeps them that way. Michael Jackson had a song, Man in the Mirror. Change comes from within. Yes there is much that can be done but they have to be willing to do what is necessary before investment will be made in their community. White people are not coming to the rescue no matter how much the black community complains. I am white and know from talking to other whites, most of us have had many experiences in African American communities. We can’t wait to leave.

I find these communities to be loud and abrasive. I realized from my first incursion into the black community I needed to be vigilant. I have always understood I too was disliked because of my skin color while there. I should inform you I lived in these communities. Their hate gushes out every time something happens and in many cases they destroy their own community even more looting and burning things down. They’re not thinking about this poor kid while they are stealing that new TV. They are exploiting his death for personal gain. Its white people’s fault its white peoples fault they yell as they loot and steal. Saying anything about the behavior of minorities is always politically incorrect but not doing so does little to evoke change. This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. I have heard many times from other white people, if they want new books for their schools they should read the old ones. Within the old books lies the secret of how to attain new ones.

He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past that infuses itself throughout. Even if the cop was 100% wrong the only thing that may occur is money for the Kids family and jail time for the cop. Big deal, nothing changes and the process begins again. Buildings and streets are like the populations that reside there. If you make an effort to maintain them they will provide better for you. If you neglect them they will fall apart. The black community must learn to maintain themselves or nothing will change. African Americans wanted to create their own culture and this is what they themselves have created. They need to learn to live with it or change.

Let the attacks begin I don't care. Always blaming one side while excusing the other fixes nothing.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Don't start up with the vacation thing.

By Associated Press
POSTED: 08/08/14, 10:41 AM EDT

WASHINGTON >> President Barack Obama is doing something unusual with his summer vacation on Martha’s Vineyard: He’ll come back to Washington midway through the getaway to attend White House meetings.

It’s an odd move, especially since Obama and his aides for years have fended off questions about the timing of his vacations by arguing that he is president at all times and can do the job wherever he is.

Obama planned to go ahead with the vacation even after the first of the military airstrikes he authorized in northern Iraq were carried out Friday.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20140808/obama-plans-short-re
turn-to-dc-during-annual-marthas-vineyard-vacation

Well well well...

Quote:

Where are the heroic Republican white Congressmen who are "protecting" us from him? They took a 5 WEEK long vacation; the whole month of August, plus. Only they called it a "recess" or an "inter-session break."

ALL Congress took a 5 week long break, as scheduled. Dem, Republican, Male, Female, black , white, latino... ALL of them.

What the hell is your point ?

Quote:

If Obama is such a critical threat to our liberties and the Constitution, maybe they shoulda not recessed, but hung around in a special session and actually voted on impeachment or something.

But actually they did THE MOST IMPORTANT THING , for themselves. Went back home and sucked up to their voters, to make sure to keep their OWN jobs.

I wasn't aware that Obama was from Martha's Vineyard. Thanks for the reminder.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, August 15, 2014 3:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Don't start up with the vacation thing.

By Associated Press
POSTED: 08/08/14, 10:41 AM EDT

WASHINGTON >> President Barack Obama is doing something unusual with his summer vacation on Martha’s Vineyard: He’ll come back to Washington midway through the getaway to attend White House meetings.

It’s an odd move, especially since Obama and his aides for years have fended off questions about the timing of his vacations by arguing that he is president at all times and can do the job wherever he is.

Obama planned to go ahead with the vacation even after the first of the military airstrikes he authorized in northern Iraq were carried out Friday.

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-news/20140808/obama-plans-short-re
turn-to-dc-during-annual-marthas-vineyard-vacation

Well well well...

Quote:

Where are the heroic Republican white Congressmen who are "protecting" us from him? They took a 5 WEEK long vacation; the whole month of August, plus. Only they called it a "recess" or an "inter-session break."

ALL Congress took a 5 week long break, as scheduled. Dem, Republican, Male, Female, black , white, latino... ALL of them.

What the hell is your point ?

Quote:

If Obama is such a critical threat to our liberties and the Constitution, maybe they shoulda not recessed, but hung around in a special session and actually voted on impeachment or something.

But actually they did THE MOST IMPORTANT THING , for themselves. Went back home and sucked up to their voters, to make sure to keep their OWN jobs.

I wasn't aware that Obama was from Martha's Vineyard. Thanks for the reminder.

There are racist retarded law-breaking black people in Martha's Vineyard? Well, I meant before 2009.

ELVISCHRIST

Friday, August 15, 2014 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
I can make all kinds of statements about why this always happens in black communities. I can take the African American argument based on their point of view and make it for them because a lot of it is true. What does that mean? It means nothing is going to change. I understand what made things the way they are but that is not what keeps them that way. Michael Jackson had a song, Man in the Mirror. Change comes from within. Yes there is much that can be done but they have to be willing to do what is necessary before investment will be made in their community. White people are not coming to the rescue no matter how much the black community complains. I am white and know from talking to other whites, most of us have had many experiences in African American communities. We can’t wait to leave.

I find these communities to be loud and abrasive. I realized from my first incursion into the black community I needed to be vigilant. I have always understood I too was disliked because of my skin color while there. I should inform you I lived in these communities. Their hate gushes out every time something happens and in many cases they destroy their own community even more looting and burning things down. They’re not thinking about this poor kid while they are stealing that new TV. They are exploiting his death for personal gain. Its white people’s fault its white peoples fault they yell as they loot and steal. Saying anything about the behavior of minorities is always politically incorrect but not doing so does little to evoke change. This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. I have heard many times from other white people, if they want new books for their schools they should read the old ones. Within the old books lies the secret of how to attain new ones.

He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past that infuses itself throughout. Even if the cop was 100% wrong the only thing that may occur is money for the Kids family and jail time for the cop. Big deal, nothing changes and the process begins again. Buildings and streets are like the populations that reside there. If you make an effort to maintain them they will provide better for you. If you neglect them they will fall apart. The black community must learn to maintain themselves or nothing will change. African Americans wanted to create their own culture and this is what they themselves have created. They need to learn to live with it or change.

Let the attacks begin I don't care. Always blaming one side while excusing the other fixes nothing.

You mean like you blaming blacks only, and totally excusing whites?

What's that going to fix, exactly?

Now I can add racist to the list of completely worthless and fucking retarded things that you are. Can't say I'm even a little bit surprised by that.

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:36 AM

True, but here's the thing about that.

The Ferguson/Michael Brown Case:

The story the officer gave was that Brown reached for his gun while he was in the patrol car.

-Brown was a big guy
-the officer was driving
-He ran away
-the officer shot at him several times
-Brown surrendered, then he was dead

Let's take this one at a time:

Brown was a big guy - what was the position he was in, could he fit through the driver-side window, did he open the door and try to climb in. So many questions, but no answers.

The officer was driving - Did the officer wear his gun on his right hip, if so, then Brown would have to reach across his body and across a steering wheel to get to his gun. If he did reach his gun, then how did he actually get to his gun.

He ran away - That means he lost the so-called "struggle" for the gun, he's running for his life because now the cop is pissed. The fact that he ran away tells me he no longer has the gun and is now unarmed again. The officer can now await for back up since he is no longer a threat.

The officer shot him several times - He puts his hands up, universal sign of "surrender" - then why did the officer shoot several times. Where was back up. What kind of training did he receive allowing a teenager to get hold of his gun.

It just doesn't make sense.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Shiny,
Saw your piece about the kid in L. A. I actually thought that that was the subject of the thread, from the header.

But I noticed this similarity: seems like the newest police defense for shooting an unarmed person is, "He was trying to get my gun." PD's in both cases are claiming that.

1KIKI

Friday, August 15, 2014 1:01 PM

Stranger still is the silence from Jesse & Al at all the black on black violence.

Logical fallacy try to find which one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies Maybe you can redeem yourself by learning a little logic.

1kiki - Wrong thread.
*snicker*

Hey, don't be upset because you can't draw a logical connection between the topic and your comment. It just means you need to learn from your mistake. With practice even you could get better. So, chin up and remember this: It's never the wrong thread in which to learn your very first lesson in logic.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Friday, August 15, 2014 1:51 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/ferguson-protests-police-resp
onse_n_5677741.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000010#

OLDENGLANDDRY

Friday, August 15, 2014 1:54 PM

http://boingboing.net/2014/08/14/video-of-ferguson-police-gassi.html

1KIKI

Friday, August 15, 2014 1:55 PM

from the link:

A group of at least 70 heavily armed SWAT officers with armored vehicles responded to an apparently peaceful protest Wednesday afternoon and ordered the crowd to disperse, HuffPost’s Ryan J. Reilly reported. The sight of camouflaged officers training automatic weapons at unarmed civilians focused unprecedented attention on the increasing militarization of policing in America.

Reporters saw an unidentified man screaming for medical assistance in the back of a police truck. Police on the scene ignored his cries for help.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Friday, August 15, 2014 2:00 PM

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/08/polic
e_in_ferguson_military_weapons_threaten_protesters.html?wpsrc=upworthy

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 9:38 PM

The kid is on video robbing a store.

The cop was responding to a call, from the store the kid had robbed.

Huh

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 9:44 PM

Look EvilChrist, you really should try anger management.

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The kid is on video robbing a store.

Huh

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

Point is why. Why does this keep happening. Not What....this does not happen with whites because they are white. It does not happen in white neighborhoods because white neighborhoods are not war zones. That is not a prejudicial statement. It is a fact. When was the last time you heard of a kid being shot in a drive by in a white neighborhood. How about never. How many times have you heard of a bullet going through a wall in a home killing a kid asleep or doing their school work. How about never. How many times have you heard of a mayor of a city like in Chicago having to line the streets in white neighborhoods with cops so the kids could safely make it to school. How about never. That's why this kid is dead. He lives in a war zone. What color are the soldiers there, how about black. Add to that the propaganda we always hear about how sweet the victims are. Then look at the video of this sweet gentle giant bulling a store clerk not even half his size as he was stealing from the store. As I said, it's not what happen but why it happened we should be focusing on.

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 10:14 PM

Quote:
...SGG
The officer shot him several times - He puts his hands up, universal sign of "surrender" - then why did the officer shoot several times. Where was back up. What kind of training did he receive allowing a teenager to get hold of his gun.

It just doesn't make sense.

Right it doesn't so since only those who come from the neighborhood are speaking up and since I would expect them to claim what they are. I will wait to pass judgment on who was at fault.

That said, I can say the police are overreacting a bit with the defense they are mounting. Pretty over the top if you ask me.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 10:15 PM

He had just robbed a store & roughed up the clerk.

Why'd he do that?

Not so much the role model for young black youth we were told , was he?

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He had just robbed a store & roughed up the clerk.

Why'd he do that?

Not so much the role model for young black youth we were told , was he?

It's the collective culture of these neighborhoods that needs to be the focus not a single incident that we do not have the facts of.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 10:59 PM

Huh ?

No, I asked why did he do that ?? Answer the question & then proceed .

This info is a game changer, no doubt.

Shame on the local cops in keeping this info til now.

SECOND

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Huh ?

No, I asked why did he do that ?? Answer the question & then proceed .

This info is a game changer, no doubt.

Shame on the local cops in keeping this info til now.

Also named in the police report is Dorian Johnson, said to have been Brown's accomplice in the robbery. Johnson is also a witness to Brown's shooting and his account of events has been one of the primary pieces of evidence for police misconduct. In Johnson's version of events, needless to say, he and Brown were not perpetrators of a crime.

Regardless of whether the use of deadly force was justified as a means of apprehending a robbery suspect, on the police's account of events one of the suspects — Johnson — was very much not dead. Why not arrest him? He isn't missing. He's been doing interviews with TV stations.--
www.vox.com/2014/8/15/6005903/dorian-johnson-ferguson-suspect-michael-
brown-witness

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Huh ?

No, I asked why did he do that ?? Answer the question & then proceed .

This info is a game changer, no doubt.

Shame on the local cops in keeping this info til now.

I mentioned his alleged involvement in the store robbery in a previous post. I also addressed all the propaganda that always accompanies these type of shooting. Propaganda such as what a nice kid this was and how he never gets into trouble. You must not be reading my posts thoroughly. I would like to see if it is true that he registered for college or if that is bogus as well.

None of this helps change a bad culture. That is what needs to be done. Focusing on this kid is just more of the same.

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:22 PM

Things got out of hand Second. Arresting the other guy may be yet to come. Things have changed and whatever the police do they need get it right.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:27 PM

I read how you glossed over the fact he robbed a store, which lead to *the 911 call that brought the cops where the confrontation took place.

* edit - NOW they're saying they're not sure if the officer involved was even aware of the robbery call.

This police dept has some real info dissimination issues.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:31 PM

Like a teacher to a pupil; "You had a week to come up with that story, is that the best you can do?"

THGRRI

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I read how you glossed over the fact he robbed a store, which lead to the 911 call that brought the cops where the confrontation took place.

Holly crap are you nuts. I glossed over nothing. I suggested all the crap about him being a good kid was just that. Crap, I then went on to what I believe is the bigger point. That the community culture that permeates thorough out these neighborhoods across this country is that of a combat zone and that is why he is dead. Slow down and try and let it sink in before reacting. I am being harder on the community in placing blame when these shooting happen. I am suggesting their way of life creates a atmosphere for this.

AURAPTOR

Friday, August 15, 2014 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Like a teacher to a pupil; "You had a week to come up with that story, is that the best you can do?"

Video of him robbing a store isn't a " story ".

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
True, but here's the thing about that.

The Ferguson/Michael Brown Case:

The story the officer gave was that Brown reached for his gun while he was in the patrol car.

-Brown was a big guy
-the officer was driving
-He ran away
-the officer shot at him several times
-Brown surrendered, then he was dead

Let's take this one at a time:

Brown was a big guy - what was the position he was in, could he fit through the driver-side window, did he open the door and try to climb in. So many questions, but no answers.

The officer was driving - Did the officer wear his gun on his right hip, if so, then Brown would have to reach across his body and across a steering wheel to get to his gun. If he did reach his gun, then how did he actually get to his gun.

He ran away - That means he lost the so-called "struggle" for the gun, he's running for his life because now the cop is pissed. The fact that he ran away tells me he no longer has the gun and is now unarmed again. The officer can now await for back up since he is no longer a threat.

The officer shot him several times - He puts his hands up, universal sign of "surrender" - then why did the officer shoot several times. Where was back up. What kind of training did he receive allowing a teenager to get hold of his gun.

It just doesn't make sense.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Shiny,
Saw your piece about the kid in L. A. I actually thought that that was the subject of the thread, from the header.

But I noticed this similarity: seems like the newest police defense for shooting an unarmed person is, "He was trying to get my gun." PD's in both cases are claiming that.

Didn't hear that version.
Heard the cop reported he stopped, was getting out of his car, kid slams him back in with the car door, then gets in and fights with the cop, gun went off inside the car. Did not hear about the car moving until days after.
Am I saying that is the definitive version of events? No, absolutely not.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The kid is on video robbing a store.

The cop was responding to a call, from the store the kid had robbed.

Huh

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

Whattaya tryin to do, interject facts and unbiased truth? That's not allowed here! You're racist! And you too, Shirley!

Saw that coming.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:54 AM

It's not character assassination when you report the facts. It just isn't.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:15 AM

The VERY latest from CNN.com:

Quote:

Ferguson police chief: Officer didn't stop Brown as robbery suspect
By Greg Botelho, Michael Pearson and Ana Cabrera, CNN
August 15, 2014 -- Updated 2059 GMT (0459 HKT)

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
?hpt=hp_t1

Let's tell it both ways, shall we? Maybe see what sticks.

With Raptard, of course, it's already settled: The kid was absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, Guilty; and the cop was absolutely justified in summarily executing him. Woulda probably been OK to lynch him, if there'd been a tree handy, for the ALLEDGED theft of a boox of cigars.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:58 AM

Nobc - where have I ever said ANYONE deserved to be shot ? Or that the cop was blameless??
And wtf is up with the name calling?

How is this an issue where you get so bent that you feel justified in insulting - anyone??

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:31 AM

Quote:
Not What....this does not happen with whites because they are white. It does not happen in white neighborhoods because white neighborhoods are not war zones. That is not a prejudicial statement. It is a fact. When was the last time you heard of a kid being shot in a drive by in a white neighborhood. How about never.

Horse puckies. Some of the most violent gangs are Asian and Latino. Has nothing to do with skin color.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:35 AM

What I think is more disturbing is the militarization of the police. Since when did they get (or need) armored vehicles and assault weapons? That kind of militarization breeds a godlike attitude on the part of the cops.

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

Would be nice if black parents would teach their kids not to commit so many crimes, and violent crimes , in the first place.

Of course, 2 parent homes do a better job of that than 1 parent homes, and sadly, far too many black families are lacking in that dept.

Thanks LBJ and the Great Society !

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Not What....this does not happen with whites because they are white. It does not happen in white neighborhoods because white neighborhoods are not war zones. That is not a prejudicial statement. It is a fact. When was the last time you heard of a kid being shot in a drive by in a white neighborhood. How about never.
Horse puckies. Some of the most violent gangs are Asian and Latino. Has nothing to do with skin color.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

Did not speak about Asians or Latinos. Only about the culture that has developed in Black communities. Violent.....

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:31 AM

And the culture that has developed in Asians and Latinos as well? Heck, I know two people who were pistol-whipped in their own homes, one by a Latino gang member and one by a Vietnamese gang member.

Maybe it has something to do with lack of jobs and lack of respect?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I think is more disturbing is the militarization of the police. Since when did they get (or need) armored vehicles and assault weapons? That kind of militarization breeds a godlike attitude on the part of the cops.

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:37 AM

Quote:
Would be nice if black parents would teach their kids not to commit so many crimes, and violent crimes , in the first place.

My former lab manager, and our agency's former purchasing manager ... both of them intelligent and upstanding men... had family in Texas, and they were frequently harassed and occasionally thrown against the car when visiting, and they weren't doing anything wrong. Nor did they look like criminals.

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:39 AM

Quote:
There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.

I think there's a problem with the way we deal with crime. We have both the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Would be nice if black parents would teach their kids not to commit so many crimes, and violent crimes , in the first place.
My former lab manager, and our agency's former purchasing manager ... both of them intelligent and upstanding men... had family in Texas, and they were frequently harassed and occasionally thrown against the car when visiting, and they weren't doing anything wrong. Nor did they look like criminals.

And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

1KIKI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:26 AM

according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime

Cite?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime

Cite?

Naw, it's common knowledge. Go check the stats yourself, if there's any doubt. I won't get sidetracked here.

But throw all that stuff out the window if this cop really did what he was alleged to have done. That's the point of THIS case. DID Michael Brown get physical w/ the cop, and try to take his gun? The video is important because it clearly shows , just minutes prior to his encounter w/ the cops, that Brown was all too eager to get physical when confronted during a robbery. The cop may not have known Brown had just stolen from a store, but that STILL could be a moot point if Brown was the one who initiated the confrontation.

1KIKI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:59 AM

So, no facts. As always.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, no facts. As always.

Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.

Sorry it's locked away from you.

( stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can )

1KIKI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:12 AM

Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.
Sorry it's lock (sic) away from you.

But it should be easy for YOU to support YOUR claim. After all, its in that vault YOU know about called the internet. But, sadly for you, it's too hard for you.

according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime

stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can, m'kay?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:36 PM

http://revolution-news.com/ferguson-polices-pr-stunt-poisons-independe
nt-impartial-investigation/

ELVISCHRIST

Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime

Cite?

Naw, it's common knowledge. Go check the stats yourself, if there's any doubt. I won't get sidetracked here.

But throw all that stuff out the window if this cop really did what he was alleged to have done. That's the point of THIS case. DID Michael Brown get physical w/ the cop, and try to take his gun? The video is important because it clearly shows , just minutes prior to his encounter w/ the cops, that Brown was all too eager to get physical when confronted during a robbery. The cop may not have known Brown had just stolen from a store, but that STILL could be a moot point if Brown was the one who initiated the confrontation.

Far as I know, nobody's established that the video is legit, much less that it shows Mike Brown.

I realize we all look alike to you, but you're going on nothing but baseless conjecture.

ELVISCHRIST

Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What I think is more disturbing is the militarization of the police. Since when did they get (or need) armored vehicles and assault weapons? That kind of militarization breeds a godlike attitude on the part of the cops.

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.

When you militarize your police, your citizens tend to look like the enemy.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Far as I know, nobody's established that the video is legit, much less that it shows Mike Brown.

How would it NOT be 'legit' ? When has a video like this been faked ? Help me out here.

And yes, it shows Michael Brown. Just stop it. Have you even SEEN the video ? I have.

Oh, did the cops also plant the cigars on this body afterwards too, just to make the whole elaborate plan, to randomly shoot and kill a young black male - ONLY one black male - in broad day light, full proof ?

Quote:

I realize we all look alike to you, but you're going on nothing but baseless conjecture.

You realize that ... how ? Funny, you are quick to judge others for stereo typing, while being guilty of it yourself.

I have no idea that YOU are black, but I'll take your word on that.

Go back through this thread and see where I sided w/ the cop, claimed Brown deserved to be shot, or flatly stated that one version was the truth and another was a lie.

You're getting so bent out of shape over folks jumping to conclusions, and here you are doing exactly that.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:21 PM

Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

Cop bitches at them to get off the street, and when they do not instantly kowtow to his "auth-or-it-tay" he throws a hissy and flings the door open, which hits Brown and rebounds into him, making him angrier, and so he grabs the kid by the throat and pulls his gun - the kid, being no damn fool, KNOWS murder is in the offering cause of the entitled cop mentality and tries to prevent the weapon from being brought to bear on him, cop pulls the trigger anyway, which freaks him out and he bolts.

Cop them shoots him in the back out of petulant rage, and when he tries to surrender, shoots him some more, especially after he's down to make sure, cause he knows damn well how unlikely his murderous ass is gonna be held accountable for it.

Seen it dozens of times, the ONLY difference in this case is that it made the media, and then the local PD, much like Albuquerque, chose to double down on their war against anyone not wearing a badge, complete with using rubber bullets and teargas directly against the media and people in their own yards - and pet peeve here, AIMING at eye/head level, despite that such weapons are supposed to be bounced off the ground to minimize injury, that smacks of malicious intent and premeditation and I personally am of the opinion that any cop caught doing it ought to be criminally charged and stripped of their badge.

And of course, the inevitable demonization press conference, which the media laps right up, but the salient FACT of the matter is that the officer in question *wasn't* following up a case at all, but just telling two "peons" to get off the street cause he COULD, period.
(And I would lay good odds that Brown isn't actually the perp in question anyways)

Of course, our resident punkass bitch and his horde of sock puppets will scream a fit, but remember for the record just how accurate my situational assesments generally turn out to BE - in respect to his own record of damn-near-never, yes ?

And you KNOW it's bad when the fucking RUSSIANS question your commitment to human and civil rights.

Quote:
In the United States, “which has positioned itself as a ‘bastion of human rights’ and is actively engaged in 'export of democracy' on a systematic basis, serious violations of basic human rights and barbaric practices thrive,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said Friday, in a special commentary on the situation in Ferguson. “We would like to advise American partners to pay more attention to restoring order in their own country, before imposing their dubious experience on other states.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/08/15/ferguson-
riots-play-big-in-russia/

Man, that really stings, especially cause they've got a fuckin POINT.

-Frem

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:52 PM

Yes the Black community has been wronged, terribly wronged. So I will say they should not care what my advice would be, instead they should take their lead from the Jews. They were enslaved in Egypt for 200 to 400 years. During WW11, 6 million were sent to gas chambers. They are few yet stand up to the world. There are only 13.3 million in the entire world. They have balls. It’s easy to bitch about life, to place the blame for your struggles on others, it’s much harder to participate in it.

Nothing will change so long as the Black community thinks it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their neighborhood that is being destroyed, not where the whites live. It's their lives that are disrupted not the whites. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:42 PM

Gorrammit, Frem.

I was gonna snip your post to touch on the highlights, and the places where I ABSOLUTELY AGREE with you. Turns out, woulda been about 99 % of your post, so no sense reprinting it, or snipping.

But it's nice to hear from someone in the field, who's dealing with the situation from his own, radicalized, POV.

You hold up your track record: every time, you seen to oppose the establishment, and hit my own, leftie, position directly on, but based on your EXPERIENCES, rather than just my THEORIES.

I salute you.

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:13 PM

Quote:
….Fern
Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

They could not be more different. That is the problem with some here. They are detached from the facts due to a bias that exists predetermining what they see as having happened here and with every case. They always go to it’s because they are black.

Quote:
….Fern
Cop bitches at them to get off the street, and when they do not instantly kowtow to his "auth-or-it-tay" he throws a hissy and flings the door open, which hits Brown and rebounds into him, making him angrier, and so he grabs the kid by the throat and pulls his gun - the kid, being no damn fool, KNOWS murder is in the offering cause of the entitled cop mentality and tries to prevent the weapon from being brought to bear on him, cop pulls the trigger anyway, which freaks him out and he bolts.

Says who, I for one don’t believe a word that these witnesses say. Why, because that’s what they always say. How many times do they admit the black guy was wrong? I never hear it. I am always amazed at the credibility give to the witnesses in these situations.

Quote:
….Fern
Cop them shoots him in the back out of petulant rage, and when he tries to surrender, shoots him some more, especially after he's down to make sure, cause he knows damn well how unlikely his murderous ass is gonna be held accountable for it.

This would be damming evidence suggesting the cop lost it. If it’s true he was shot in the back and again when surrendering and again when he was down.

Quote:
….Fern
Seen it dozens of times, the ONLY difference in this case is that it made the media, and then the local PD, much like Albuquerque, chose to double down on their war against anyone not wearing a badge, complete with using rubber bullets and teargas directly against the media and people in their own yards - and pet peeve here, AIMING at eye/head level, despite that such weapons are supposed to be bounced off the ground to minimize injury, that smacks of malicious intent and premeditation and I personally am of the opinion that any cop caught doing it ought to be criminally charged and stripped of their badge.

I agree, I think every case should make it to the news. Every time someone shoots someone their picture should be posted so we can all see who is shooting who in this country. What do you say to that Fern? As for cops shooting high trying to severely injure protesters. Maybe some do, there are bad apples everywhere. Yes strip them of their badge.

Quote:
….Fern
And of course, the inevitable demonization press conference, which the media laps right up, but the salient FACT of the matter is that the officer in question *wasn't* following up a case at all, but just telling two "peons" to get off the street cause he COULD, period.
(And I would lay good odds that Brown isn't actually the perp in question anyways)

From the fist the community propaganda machine start with Brown being nothing but a great kid who was off to college. This tends to rile up the community even more. If it is fair for the community to paint Brown as a saint to the press and for all to see, then it is fair to show the press clips of him bulling and stealing. If, it was him.

Quote:
….Fern
Of course, our resident punkass bitch and his horde of sock puppets will scream a fit, but remember for the record just how accurate my situational assesments generally turn out to BE - in respect to his own record of damn-near-never, yes ?

My place in this is to suggest it doesn’t matter what happened. It is doomed to happen again and again because the black community is a mess. If that does not change I will see you here again in six weeks.

Quote:
….Fern
And you KNOW it's bad when the fucking RUSSIANS question your commitment to human and civil rights.
Man, that really stings, especially cause they've got a fuckin POINT.

Who cares what Russia thinks? Except maybe the gays and for now the Ukrainians. It’s unfortunate but we

SIGNYM

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:30 PM

Quote:
And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

I've known some pretty wild (white) teenagers and young adults. They drank, smoked pot, trashed places, pilfered, outran the cops (or sometimes not), had coerced sex, one punched out his boss at work ... but this was in an all-white exurb. In one case, the cops KNEW who broke and entered, he'd done it before, so they went and "talked to the mom". Boys will be boys. Blind eye turned towards many crimes.

Compare that to the "stop and frisk" policy of the NYPD in black neighborhoods. The cops were operating under quotas, they had to being so many young black men in. So many young black were detained for nothing. The cop who brought forward the evidence of this illegal and prejudicial policy ... which eventually turned into a court case ... wound up recording everything .... everything ... as the NYPD tried to claim he was being paranoid, required psychiatric treatment. He even recorded the day they came to his home, tried to talk him out of filing his information, implied that he needed care, then dragged him out of his house, charged him with "resisting arrest" and broke the tape recorder he had on his body. Fortunately, he had another one in the room. It's policy, and when it's not policy it's prejudice.

When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

1KIKI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:32 PM

I wonder what the general view of the US is in the overseas developed world.

On the one hand there's the steady stream of US-based infotainment propaganda saturating the world (and us btw, we're the primary target) and painting one picture. And then there's this reality that breaks free of the electronic cage that exposes a very different meme.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:38 PM

That 1kiki is because you only see what is wrong here and not what is good. You also chose to ignore other countries and how the world is as a whole. If you were to give the world an honest look you would realize as flawed as we are, we are way better that most.

THGRRI

Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.
I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

I've known some pretty wild (white) teenagers and young adults. They drank, smoked pot, trashed places, pilfered, outran the cops (or sometimes not), had coerced sex, one punched out his boss at work ... but this was in an all-white exurb. In one case, the cops KNEW who broke and entered, he'd done it before, so they went and "talked to the mom". Boys will be boys. Blind eye turned towards many crimes.

Compare that to the "stop and frisk" policy of the NYPD in black neighborhoods. The cops were operating under quotas, they had to being so many young black men in. So many young black were detained for nothing. The cop who brought forward the evidence of this illegal and prejudicial policy ... which eventually turned into a court case ... wound up recording everything .... everything ... as the NYPD tried to claim he was being paranoid, required psychiatric treatment. He even recorded the day they came to his home, tried to talk him out of filing his information, implied that he needed care, then dragged him out of his house, charged him with "resisting arrest" and broke the tape recorder he had on his body. Fortunately, he had another one in the room. It's policy, and when it's not policy it's prejudice.

When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

The justice system in this country is skewed against the poor. White, black it does not matter. Money or lack of it is what matters. If you live a lifestyle that brings you into constant contact with the police (negative contact)bad things are going to happen.

Yes just by the virtue of the neighborhood you will be perceived badly. That is wrong but true. Knowing this should be an incentive to change but it isn't for many. Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:02 AM

THUGR's pointless propagandist drivel notwithstanding, I still wonder what the general view of the rest of the developed world is of us. There are wildly disparate memes.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I wonder what the general view of the US is in the overseas developed world.

On the one hand there's the steady stream of US-based infotainment propaganda saturating the world (and us btw, we're the primary target) and painting one picture. And then there's this reality that breaks free of the electronic cage that exposes a very different meme.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:06 AM

Here's what sucks...

You own a store, a mini mart. Some punk teenager comes in, snatches a $ 50 box of faux cigars, and tries to exit the store w/ out paying. You confront him, try to get him to stop, and he, being much bigger than you, shoves you out of the way. You try to keep him from leaving, and comes at you again. You call the cops, and damned if some OTHER cop spots the same thug, walking down the middle of the street. After a brief confrontation, the thug is shot dead. Whether through no fault of his own, or possibly he tried to get rough w/ the cop, as he had just gotten rough w/ you.

So, several days later, the cops release a video showing what took place in YOUR store, and that night, it gets looted.

WTF ? You didn't do 1 damn thing wrong, but now you store is boarded up, trashed and you've lost 1000's if not 10's of 1000's of $ in merchandise.

And other stores, besides yours, get looted as well. Again, folks trying to earn a living, who hadn't done 1 damn thing wrong, yet are now facing hardship and may end up having to close up for good.

And folks wonder - ' Why are black neighborhoods stuck w/ higher insurance rates ? It's because of RACISM, isn't it ?? Hell yeah, it HAS to be the racism! American ain't fair ! '

To me, that just sucks.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:08 AM

Quote:
Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.

This is like that self-help pablum that they smear on the sick.

What poor neighborhoods need is JOBS. Poor neighborhoods are not about to re-create an entire economy in miniature, independent from the economy that they're embedded in.

So what the militarized police do... what their REAL function is... is to keep the poor folk bottled up in option-less situations in their poor neighborhoods so that wealthy folk can continue to enjoy their safe and comfortable lives.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Here's what sucks...

You own a store, a mini mart. Some punk teenager comes in, snatches a $ 50 box of faux cigars, and tries to exit the store w/ out paying. You confront him, try to get him to stop, and he, being much bigger than you, shoves you out of the way. You try to keep him from leaving, and comes at you again. You call the cops, and damned if some OTHER cop spots the same thug, walking down the middle of the street. After a brief confrontation, the thug is shot dead. Whether through no fault of his own, or possibly he tried to get rough w/ the cop, as he had just gotten rough w/ you.

So, several days later, the cops release a video showing what took place in YOUR store, and that night, it gets looted.

WTF ? You didn't do 1 damn thing wrong, but now you store is boarded up, trashed and you've lost 1000's if not 10's of 1000's of $ in merchandise.

And other stores, besides yours, get looted as well. Again, folks trying to earn a living, who hadn't done 1 damn thing wrong, yet are now facing hardship and may end up having to close up for good.

And folks wonder - ' Why are black neighborhoods stuck w/ higher insurance rates ? It's because of RACISM, isn't it ?? Hell yeah, it HAS to be the racism! American ain't fair ! '

To me, that just sucks.

Not just higher insurance rates but with no one willing to hire them either. Also very few who want to open a business there. It is one thing to be lower class and something else entirely to have no class. There are many who are stuck with that stigma because of others. People in other communities can not fix that. As I keep saying it has to come from within. People always want to fix the police. That will not change the culture of the community.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:17 AM

Fewer businesses willing to cater to the lower income, and having to charge higher rates, to deal w/ the higher insurance and added security... it's an ugly, self perpetuating cycle.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:19 AM

Except liquor stores and fast food joints.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:23 AM

Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Except liquor stores and fast food joints.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.

Spoken like one who completely ignores the facts just posted above.

Sometimes, folks throw away their own lives, and then complain about it being someone else's fault.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Both poor enighborshoods and rich ones operate by the rules of this society: if you have money you're valued, if not you're thrown away.

Yes to a great extent. Especially if you are void of a back bone and cannot take care of yourself legally. Look at the success rate of graduating high school. Keep in mind these kids are held to a much lower standard then the rest. Many more of less get pushed through.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:32 AM

Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:33 AM

Quote:
Except liquor stores and fast food joints.-signy
That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities. -THUGR

Did you know that there have been PROTESTS in poor neighborhoods about the number of liquor stores? That should tell you who YOU'RE dealing with.

It's too bad that these cities are preyed on by the very city councils and planning departments who are as entranced by money as any Wall Street banker.

The rot is just more visible in low-income neighborhoods because there's less money to cover it up. But it's not any different. When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:36 AM

It's clear that more education tends to lead to better employment outcomes. Bachelor's degree holders have a lower unemployment rate than high school graduates, who have a lower unemployment rate than high school dropouts.

But educational attainment may not yield the same benefits for everyone. A new study suggests that young black men need two more levels of education to achieve the same employment levels as young white men. Black men age 18 to 34 with some college have roughly the same chance of being employed as white non-Hispanic men who didn't graduate from high school, according to a new analysis of Census data.

Yes, a black male professional (doctor, dentist, professor) has as good a chance of being employed as a white male with an associates degree. THE SYSTEM WORKS!

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/26/5845468/a-black-man-with-a-college-degree
-is-as-likely-to-be-working-as-a

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:40 AM

Crappy and thugr seem to think they have presented facts. I only saw (biased and self-serving) opinions.

When they start posting facts, maybe I'll discuss those facts with them.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:45 AM

^'^
'| |
more useless opinions

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:52 AM

THUGR

When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
THUGR

When did YOU get off your knees to fight an unjust system? Never?

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think there's a problem with the way we deal with crime. We have both the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.

Assuming that you're correct on those stats, ( and I'm not asking for a cite: that's in line with my general impression, based on several things I've seen written somewhere or other. I can't cite a specific source myself. But I believe it's true.) we are, indeed doing something wrong. SO how do we fix it?

IN this political world where many candidates run on a platform of "I'm tough on crime," which is code for "lock 'em all up and throw away the key," ; but " my opponent is soft on law and order," which means "he voted AGAINST the DEATH PENALTY for stealing boxes of cigars ONCE"; with a side order of "Willie Horton-- my opponent would have let him out too, to pillage YOUR neighborhood." ; anybody who advocates any kind of legal system reform is asking to not be re-elected.

But to start off , here are some of my suggestions:

Decriminalize a lot of "victimless" crimes: drug use, simple prostitution ( and I know that's a complex issue... there's lots of abuse and sex slavery in the trade; that's not what I'm talking about. ), morality crimes. Reduce the sentences on the rest of them; none of this " War on Drugs' 25 to life for possession of a single joint" crap.

Reduce draconian "tough on crimes" sentences even on violent crimes. Nobody learns much from a too long sentence, it just warehouses them off the street, so there's no life change in the criminal, no chance to mature or change.

Those 2 right there would reduce the prison overcrowding problem, maybe allow prison folks to focus on those still in the system, either rehabilitate them or if they're really incorrigible, to validly lock 'em up forever.

( And maybe I'm wrong about those 2- maybe those tough on crimes laws are why crime has finally been decreasing nationwide. I haven't see stats on that, but if there are numbers that back that up, I'd love to see them. Maybe what we're doing isn't wrong, maybe it's exactly what needs to be done. If so, we need to embrace that, create prison colonies somewhere-- the Mojave desert? Alaska? the Army? the Moon? and let 'em sort it out their own way.)

Enforce the Death Penalty, for some crimes and in some cases where the factual guilt is not in question-- some criminals are sociopaths or incorrigibles, can't be redeemed, just plain have to be removed. And that includes the mentally damaged or previously abused-- it doesn't matter how they got to where they committed their crime, if they did it and can't be rehabilitated, it's a waste of time, space, and food to warehouse 'em, and a danger to society to ever let 'em out.

Get D.A.'s to stop overcharging on criminal trials, just to plea bargain it down to guilty on a lesser offense.

There are probably other ideas, but I've been working on this post for over an hour, I gotta end it here.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:56 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote. At least until we notice they are putting people in place who are crime figures themselves. I don’t wish to be negative but it is a real possibility.

No to prison colonies and the death penalty. It actually cost more to execute someone than it does to lock them away for life. Rather than getting DA’s to lessen the charges against defendants I would suggest getting the defendants a better defense. Most defense lawyers are way over worked. Let’s also not forget DA’s like a high conviction rate so many who commit crimes simply walk or as you say plea bargain to get a lesser charge. There should be an independent group that looks for things like this and holds the DA accountable for stacking the deck against a defendant.

If a person from a bad neighborhood does well they leave most of this behind. Yes they are stilled followed in stores but as more join the ranks of the responsible things like that will occur less.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 1:59 AM

I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.

Are you white? B/c that's a big set of advantages right there, one white people just accept as a normal circumstance, oblivious to the fact that other people don't have the good fortune that they do. Are you male? (of course you are). That's another big advantage you have that went completely under your radar. Did you attend a suburban or religious school?

I find that many people who overcame a difficulty are extremely self-congratulatory and oblivious to the advantages they did have, and the obstacles other people face. It doesn't make them wiser. It just hardens their minset.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:05 AM

1kiki

You will not get me to suggest that blacks and other minorities are not tread poorly in this country. That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them. When asking Morgan Freeman if color played a big role in why blacks can't get ahead and if that's why their was so much income inequality, he responded not today. In the past yes but not today. He was asked that by another black man and he also said to him just look at you and me. It's not a problem for us.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.
I think there's a problem with the way we deal with crime. We have both the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.

Highest crime rate? You must be joking, right?
Highest reported crime rate, I can believe.
Highest number of claimed victims, I can believe.
Highest number of incidences of activities that no other place in the world considered crimes, I can believe.

Wake up.
Women are PROPERTY in most of the world. You cannot commit crime upon your own property.
Women have no rights in most of the world. The greatest perpetrators of sexual "abuse" in the world are "police" who have no oversight, or written laws to violate (not referring to cops in civilized societies).
Theft in most countries is an art form, not a crime. Many places train and coordinate theft, burglary, pickpocketing wherever tourists can be found.
Traffic laws alone are the source of a great number of "crimes" - but many countries barely have enough cars to have "traffic laws" or the cars are only for the wealthy.
Diamond companies murder entire families and villages if some kid picks up a rock and it is found to be a diamond - that is not against the law, it is "market protection."

Highest crime rate, my muscular buttocks.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime

Cite?

Crassic.

Saw that coming.

Next on BREAKING NEWS: the 3 Billionth anniversary of the Sun rising in the East.
Gotta find cites for that as well.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, no facts. As always.

Nope. Those are hidden away in the secret vault known as THE INTERNET.

Sorry it's locked away from you.

( stay focused on this thread's topic, the Ferguson shooting. If ya can )

Awesome emoticon, had to quote it.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

-Frem

Really? You mean the kid was high on weed? Carrying burglary tools? attempting to kill an armed non-black person? (OK, I'll give you that one for now, as well as possessing stolen property) Habitual repetitive criminal delinquent?
Just like Trevon Martin?
I had not yet heard all those facts come out.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:24 AM

That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them.

Not so easy when racism follows you all they way up. A black male professional (doctor, dentist, professor) has the same employment rate as a white male with an associates degree. Are you telling me that that isn't racism? That they somehow magically left it behind?

Now maybe you don't like dealing with FACTS (something you're extremely consistent about is your refusal to say anything factual), but racism is a FACT people live every day. And your smug pronouncements that people can just leave racism behind doesn't change the FACT that it follows them no matter how much they achieve or how hard they work.

So yeah you - white male priviledged - despite your abysmal stupidity.

Oh, and you think Morgan Freeman speaks for all black males and has a lock on THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

Really, trully, you are abysmally stupid.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:35 AM

Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police behavior adding to the problem. I would ask them how are the police in their neighborhoods. It would provide for and interesting discussion because I sure the police there are great.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:36 AM

No 1kiki what I am telling you is what I am posting. Not what you would like to suggest lies between the lines. What you suggest makes me stupid is what you think I mean not what I am actually saying. Your last post is pure speculation on your park and not what I am saying.

Give me a minute and I will make your case better than you. It's just that what you claim I am saying I am not.

Wait for it.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 2:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote.

That was gonna be one of my next points. If rehabilitated, ALL of their citizenship rights should be restored. They've "paid their debt to society," as the old phrase used to go.

But by then my post had already got too long, and I'd spent too long composing it.

This is a topic that needs its own thread. When I get a chance, like maybe tonight or tomorrow, I'll grab up Sig's post, mine and yours, and start one. Or if someone beats me to it, go ahead.

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