Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2026 18:50
VIEWED: 62548
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SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:31 AM (P)

Ok, let's put the generalizations aside. Mike-Mike, as he was known in his neighborhood, had both his parents around to raise him. The statement their attorney was that both struggled to keep him straight and going to school.
He graduated and was about to enter a vocational college to study mechanics or some such. Besides how many black men wind up in jail. Please - it's the chicken or the egg syndrome. What came first? Poverty begets desperation, which begets violence. Give people no way out and see what happens.

Still, with all of that, the streets taught him a different lesson. I'm not excusing his bad or criminal behavior, but whether he stole cigarillos or jaywalked (the police still can't get their story straight) he didn't deserved to be executed. The officer behaved like judge, jury and executioner - this land stands for something better than that. A world war was fought over that.

And the idiots who riot and destroy public and private property should be jailed like any other criminal. Those few idiots, like the idiot police officer, make the upstanding citizens look bad. One bad apple could rot the bunch.

Recently saw a video of a great grandfather, in San Bernadino, CA, who was knocked unconscious and robbed while filling up his truck on his way to work in the wee hours in June. Upon studying the video closely, both assailants were wearing hoodies, covering their faces, but one wore shorts and the other failed to cover his hands.

Both were white.

The elderly gentleman, 78, suffered a broken nose and a concussion. He was white. White on white crime, it's an epidemic.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Black parents have to teach their young men how not to get roughed up/ beaten/ killed by the cops. We're not any different than days past, when a cop could throw any black man against the car and take him into jail for any reason, or no reason at all.

Would be nice if black parents would teach their kids not to commit so many crimes, and violent crimes , in the first place.

Of course, 2 parent homes do a better job of that than 1 parent homes, and sadly, far too many black families are lacking in that dept.

Thanks LBJ and the Great Society !

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:41 AM (P)

Sorry 1kiki, I have a document that has all those statics but can't cut it paste it here. I wasted enough time trying and I have no intention of retyping it. I also have a graph I created but that will not cut and paste out of word either.

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:42 AM (P)

Funny thing.................whites can walk around with AK-47s strapped to their body, full bandoleers, and no one stops them, not even for a price check.

They walk into Wal-Mart's and the like and no one bothers to check their credentials.

Does that seem right to you?

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police behavior adding to the problem. I would ask them how are the police in their neighborhoods. It would provide for and interesting discussion because I sure the police there are great.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 4:09 AM (P)

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Sorry 1kiki, I have a document that has all those statics (sic) but can't cut it paste it here. I wasted enough time trying and I have no intention of retyping it. I also have a graph I created but that will not cut and paste out of word either.

Or, you could have clicked on the link I provided:
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/26/5845468/a-black-man-with-a-college-degree
-is-as-likely-to-be-working-as-a
where you could also have seen a chart which indicates most white women would be better off as black men:

and found a link that further elucidated the effects of discrimination, in this case on account of sex:
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5597392/fancy-math-cant-erase-the-gender-p
ay-gap

BTW, you can always google (or ixquick, startpage, gibiru or duckduckgo). You can find many facts you can then post.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:24 AM (P)

I really did like Scrubs. Thanks to Netflix, I've been power viewing all 9 seasons. Great show.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:25 AM (P)

Thanks for the bump.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:33 AM (P)

1kiki

That is what I have that I could not post. Only mine is a bit more complete. I have all kinds of those stats posted by the census bureau.

Do you know what it means in reference to what I was posting? Nothing at all. My continued point was, it stays that way till the black community decides to change. But of course you knew that and have no argument against it, so you take the tact of suggesting I dispute they are handicapped or treated unfairly.

What you need to learn to do is, if you can not make an argument against what is being posted for or against, you should not get evolved at all.

And once again with the bitch, bitch, bitch and no offered solutions.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ok, let's put the generalizations aside. Mike-Mike, as he was known in his neighborhood, had both his parents around to raise him. The statement their attorney was that both struggled to keep him straight and going to school.
He graduated and was about to enter a vocational college to study mechanics or some such. Besides how many black men wind up in jail. Please - it's the chicken or the egg syndrome. What came first? Poverty begets desperation, which begets violence. Give people no way out and see what happens.

Then why steal the cigars, so brazenly and use force, on a store owner ? That seems out of character for a kid who seemed, by all accounts given so far, to be doing things the right way.

Quote:

Still, with all of that, the streets taught him a different lesson. I'm not excusing his bad or criminal behavior, but whether he stole cigarillos or jaywalked (the police still can't get their story straight) he didn't deserved to be executed. The officer behaved like judge, jury and executioner - this land stands for something better than that. A world war was fought over that.

Kid, big or little, black or white, wanders down the middle of a street in the middle of the day, and a cop tells you to get to steppin' for the sidewalk, you'd best listen. What took place after their initial encounter, remains to be revealed. I doubt very much that a 6 year vet on the police force, seeing a black male in the street, decided " Yeah, time to shoot someone " and then proceeded to execute young Mr. Brown.

If that's how it went down, then we have a severe mental defect, and not your standard ' police brutality ' case.

Quote:

And the idiots who riot and destroy public and private property should be jailed like any other criminal. Those few idiots, like the idiot police officer, make the upstanding citizens look bad. One bad apple could rot the bunch.

Only for the rioters, it's many bad apples. And many more, who stand by and just let it happen. It's THEIR FREAKING NEIGHBORHOOD !

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:45 AM (P)

THUGR

"My continued point was, it stays that way till the black community decides to change."

You mean, till they decide to provide themselves with better schools? Hire themselves into jobs? Give themselves better wages? Build and staff better hospitals? Create themselves better public funding?

You mean they can do all that? Shit man, why did nobody tell me? ... What are you smoking dude? Or are you just blowing crap out of your privileged white male ass? (as always)

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 5:47 AM (P)

What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:05 AM (P)

Thanks for the bump.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:09 AM (P)

Your police sound like arseholes

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:13 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

That is a terrible excuse to use deadly force.

I think its quite right that police bear intense scrutiny if they shoot someone, particularly if they kill. It should be a last resort in the face of a direct threat to another or to themselves. And I mean more of a threat than apparently reaching for a gun and not stopping.

The problem in the US is the prevalence of arms which kind of make for a jumpy police force I guess.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:15 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

Not all are, but yeah, far too many.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:26 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks for the bump.

This shows how delusional you are. This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:30 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

That is a terrible excuse to use deadly force.

I think its quite right that police bear intense scrutiny if they shoot someone, particularly if they kill. It should be a last resort in the face of a direct threat to another or to themselves. And I mean more of a threat than apparently reaching for a gun and not stopping.

The problem in the US is the prevalence of arms which kind of make for a jumpy police force I guess.

We do not yet know Magon why deadly force was used. The cop may be entirely wrong and needs to go to jail. As for our countries cops. It is the many bad apples they are stuck policing that are mostly the problem. If you visit this country as you said you would like. Visit a black neighborhood. I can assure you, you will not stay long. Then imagine trying to police it.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:34 AM (P)

This shows how delusional you are. This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.

Hmmm. Did I say it was my thread? Please, quote me on that. Feel free.

Personally, I thought the thread should stay on top. Me thanking you for it is in no way an indication that I thought I owned the thread, or that I thought you were performing a personal task for me.

Delusional, much? Or simply illiterate?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:43 AM (P)

1kiki

It's been moving right along without the bump comment being necessary. No 1kiki I think my assessment of what you meant was accurate. Unless you want to try again as to why you did it?

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:45 AM (P)

This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.
I think my assessment of what you meant was accurate.

So, you claim I think the thread is 'mine'. And that I think you were doing a task for me.

Hm. Reading things that aren't there. Thinking things that have no basis in fact. Unable to objectively show anyone else what you claim is true - or even exists.

Delusional it is.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:50 AM (P)

1kiki, the point is because you have no suggestions as to have to fix what is wrong, and because if you did all you could do is make suggestions that are absolutely not going to happen. All you are about is how there is such injustice perpetrated against blacks.

I am not arguing against that but instead suggesting that if the blacks do not change what is going on in their community amongst themselves. Another hundred years is going to pass with all the same shit happening.

If you want to argue that I am up for it. Otherwise stop answering my posts with shit I am not talking about. If you do not understand this post like you apparently have not understood the others, have someone read it to you.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:55 AM (P)

changing the goal posts

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:00 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
changing the goal posts
]

No it is just me pointing out once again how you twist what people say by making it appear they mean something else. I have just dealt with this same thing with you in another thread. You lied and misrepresented what I said and I asked you for the link. I would think you had it because you just quoted it. Instead you ignored me with one post and have not been back since.

This is what a bump is for so check it out. I will bump the thread so you can post the link clearing your name.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:03 AM (P)

ad hominem

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:07 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
ad hominem

Yes that is a big part of what you are doing. I notice you are not posting the link and there you have it.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:12 AM (P)

ad hominem
onus probandi
Moral high ground

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:13 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
ad hominem
onus probandi
Moral high ground

Yep,

gave you a chance to show you are not a liar and you run for the hills. That post shut you down cold. Nothing more from you on this thread about it and nothing more on the other.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:26 AM (P)

ad hominem

Really, is that all the horsepower you have?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:41 AM (P)

preserving THUGR's racist rants for the future:

I can make all kinds of statements about why this always happens in black communities. I can take the African American argument based on their point of view and make it for them because a lot of it is true. What does that mean? It means nothing is going to change. I understand what made things the way they are but that is not what keeps them that way. Michael Jackson had a song, Man in the Mirror. Change comes from within. Yes there is much that can be done but they have to be willing to do what is necessary before investment will be made in their community. White people are not coming to the rescue no matter how much the black community complains. I am white and know from talking to other whites, most of us have had many experiences in African American communities. We can’t wait to leave.

I find these communities to be loud and abrasive. I realized from my first incursion into the black community I needed to be vigilant. I have always understood I too was disliked because of my skin color while there. I should inform you I lived in these communities. Their hate gushes out every time something happens and in many cases they destroy their own community even more looting and burning things down. They’re not thinking about this poor kid while they are stealing that new TV. They are exploiting his death for personal gain. Its white people’s fault its white peoples fault they yell as they loot and steal. Saying anything about the behavior of minorities is always politically incorrect but not doing so does little to evoke change. This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. I have heard many times from other white people, if they want new books for their schools they should read the old ones. Within the old books lies the secret of how to attain new ones.

He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past that infuses itself throughout. Even if the cop was 100% wrong the only thing that may occur is money for the Kids family and jail time for the cop. Big deal, nothing changes and the process begins again. Buildings and streets are like the populations that reside there. If you make an effort to maintain them they will provide better for you. If you neglect them they will fall apart. The black community must learn to maintain themselves or nothing will change. African Americans wanted to create their own culture and this is what they themselves have created. They need to learn to live with it or change.

Let the attacks begin I don't care. Always blaming one side while excusing the other fixes nothing.

Now this is an interesting stew of bad logic, self-delusion, ignorance and sheer hate.

THUGR claims it 'always' happens in black communities. Apparently it never happens in Hispanic communities. Or Asian communities. Or Native American communities. It never happens with Francophones living among Anglophones. Or to poor whites living among wealthy whites. It's not due to a non-racial process brought about by limited opportunities being corralled by the powerful. It ALWAYS happens in black communities, because - can we talk? - they're black. Obviously.

So we have this big, and I mean GINORMOUS stereotype already, one indicating he certainly isn't going to view this with any degree of impartiality. Nope, it's going to go through that big filter of hate. Against blacks.

And what keeps things the way they are - certainly isn't due to ongoing racism, or any type of 'ism'. Despite all the studies that show 'discountedly equal' opportunity, reward, justice, representation and power for women, blacks, and Hispanics of equal ability doing equal work, it must certainly not be due to discrimination. No, it's because blacks have insufficiently changed from within. Apparently, if they try hard enough, their skin will turn white.

I fi

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:54 AM (P)

more, but not certainly all, of THUGR's racists rants:

That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities.

Yes to a great extent. Especially if you are void of a back bone and cannot take care of yourself legally. Look at the success rate of graduating high school. Keep in mind these kids are held to a much lower standard then the rest. Many more of less get pushed through.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote. At least until we notice they are putting people in place who are crime figures themselves. I don’t wish to be negative but it is a real possibility.

No to prison colonies and the death penalty. It actually cost more to execute someone than it does to lock them away for life. Rather than getting DA’s to lessen the charges against defendants I would suggest getting the defendants a better defense. Most defense lawyers are way over worked. Let’s also not forget DA’s like a high conviction rate so many who commit crimes simply walk or as you say plea bargain to get a lesser charge. There should be an independent group that looks for things like this and holds the DA accountable for stacking the deck against a defendant.

If a person from a bad neighborhood does well they leave most of this behind. Yes they are stilled followed in stores but as more join the ranks of the responsible things like that will occur less.

You will not get me to suggest that blacks and other minorities are not tread poorly in this country. That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them. When asking Morgan Freeman if color played a big role in why blacks can't get ahead and if that's why their was so much income inequality, he responded not today. In the past yes but not today. He was asked that by another black man and he also said to him just look at you and me. It's not a problem for us.

Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:22 AM (P)

Gonna take it from the last post, here.

THGRRI

Quote:
Says who, I for one don’t believe a word that these witnesses say.

Save for the fact that multiple witnesses who didn't know each other or of each others presence corroborated that information, and it's worth noting in cases like this, especially ones where there's video, the police are more often the ones lying, a fact handily verified by CATOs police misconduct database.

Quote:
This would be damming evidence suggesting the cop lost it. If it’s true he was shot in the back and again when surrendering and again when he was down.

Which is why they've been so twitchy about the autopsy, cause there's really no way to sanitize that one.

SIGNYM

Quote:
I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

Bingo, yet another aspect of white privledge folks forget, the blind eye, hands off, free pass they get - in certain neighborhoods mind, cause past a certain point of poverty race matters less.

Oh, and apparently that video the police flaunted, which might not even be Brown, *may* have been a personal confrontation having nothing to do with the store per se (meaning that the merchandise was likely paid for) - the owner of the store has clammed up behind his lawyer, which is a smart move, but it is known he did not file a complaint or call for service, which he damn sure would have (would have had to for insurance and other reasons) if there'd been robbery/shoplifting.
A call for service WAS placed, but by a customer and so far the content/context is unknown, so this might have been a personal spat deliberately misconstrued by the police as retroactive ass covering.
I feel for the shop owner though, clamming up and hiding behind his lawyer is the ONLY thing he can do - if he sides with the cops, the community will all but lynch him, and if he DOESN'T side with them, they'll harrass and intimidate him right out of business and likely out of town entire, that's a no-win situation.

Also, someone at MotherJones wrote up a really halfass bit on why someone might resist arrest, but it comes off as pathetic cause they're dancing around the actual issue.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/six-reasons-black-person-m
ight-resist-arrest-michael-brown-dante-parker-eric-garner
They touch on it a tiny little bit, but the salient fact of the matter is that once you're in their custody, you are in their power, all your resources come through that filter, you only get to communicate if they let you, and there's no firm assurance you will survive the process.
Add to that a blatant admission by the officer that they intend your death, resistance starts making a LOT more sense - if they're gonna beat you ANYWAY, if they're gonna kill you ANYWAY, it's only logical to fight.

Another point is looking at how these confrontations start, in most of these cases the officer fucked up, in my opinion, by entering someone elses personal space in an aggressive and threatening manner PRIOR to having probable cause to actually do so.
AND then escalated the situation instead of defusing it.
Marc MacYoung has a handy checklist of dumb-shit-you-don't-do, and it's appalling how often police officers go right down the list, full throttle.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm

Me, I call that picking a fight under color of authority, and it's a sign of either piss-poor training, the WRONG training, or institutional corruption of a massive scale, because officers should be trained to DE-escalate situations, not provoke and escalate them.

Case One in point, just last night at roundabouts 12:14am, I spot four young black guys on bicycles - now there's been some petty theft around here recently by folk matching this description, just stuff people left lying out so more simply opportunism instead of anything planned, and all during the day...
I tell folk to secure their stuff, but what c

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:25 AM (P)

Yep that is a lot of what I said but I did not check it all out. So I'll sum it up for you again. This all stays the same until these communities clean it up themselves. Until then you will continue to blame white people and this shit will continue to happen. If you think bitching that this is always the fault of others helps, you are little more than part of the problem. The next time a black kid kills another black kid you go right ahead and blame white folk for creating the problem. That's sure to fix it. As a matter of fact another one or half a dozen probably got killed as I typed this out.

You keep bitching 1kiki and pointing the finger over here. That's what you do best.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:35 AM (P)

Fern I have no way of knowing if the cop is guilty. Neither do you. If he is he needs to be dealt with. That said I question your street sense in taking the witnesses word at face value. It could all be true but it may also not be. At least some of it. They say the cop shot the kid for no reason. They then say he shot him in the back and again when he tried to surrender. Then they say he shot him again as he stood over him. If that is true than the kid was assassinated. It just sounds a bit over the top. I will wait and see.

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

1KIKI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:47 AM (P)

Now THUGR is an interesting stew of bad logic, self-delusion, ignorance and sheer hate.

THUGR claims it 'always' happens in black communities. Apparently it never happens in Hispanic communities. Or Asian communities. Or Native American communities. It never happens with Francophones living among Anglophones. Or to poor whites living among wealthy whites. Or Palestinians living in Israel. It's not due to a non-racial process brought about by limited opportunities being corralled by the powerful. It ALWAYS happens in black communities, because - can we talk? - they're black. Obviously.

So we have this big, and I mean GINORMOUS stereotype already, one indicating he certainly isn't going to view this with any degree of impartiality. Nope, it's going to go through that big filter of hate. Against blacks.

And what keeps things the way they are - certainly isn't due to ongoing racism, or any type of 'ism'. Despite all the studies that show 'discountedly equal' opportunity, reward, justice, representation and power for women, blacks, and Hispanics of equal ability and education doing equal work, it must certainly not be due to discrimination. No, it's because blacks have insufficiently changed from within. Apparently, if they try hard enough, their skin will turn white.

I find this to be an interesting statement, made without irony or understanding: "I have always understood I TOO was disliked because of my skin color while there." (in black communities) I just have to let this stand without comment.

Then there is his incomprehension about who owns what in those communities, and what is their role: "in many cases they destroy their OWN COMMUNITY even more looting and burning things down". Does he not understand that blacks don't own 'their' communities? That slumlords own the housing, corps own the fast food joints, and outsiders own the liquor stores? That those entities are rightfully viewed as predators, or at least parasites, by 'the community'?

"This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. ... He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past ... " Because, apparently the cop was not supposed to deal with an individual kid. No, the cop was supposed to react to a stereotype, and kill it dead. It's only normal, after all.

So, apparently, this is all the fault of the black community. They should just provide themselves with equal schools, jobs, housing, opportunity, rewards. Only they need to do anything different.

So says a racist THUGR.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:10 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

Looks to me like Thuggery's doing nothing to better himself. Also, I note that he makes no mention of ever trying to clean up the neighborhood he lived in, or water the grass or "scrubs". So he brought it upon himself to live in such conditions, clearly, and because of that he deserves to die at the hands of police.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:14 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Fern I have no way of knowing if the cop is guilty. Neither do you. If he is he needs to be dealt with. That said I question your street sense in taking the witnesses word at face value. It could all be true but it may also not be. At least some of it. They say the cop shot the kid for no reason. They then say he shot him in the back and again when he tried to surrender. Then they say he shot him again as he stood over him. If that is true than the kid was assassinated. It just sounds a bit over the top. I will wait and see.

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

Huh. You seem pretty quick to excuse the conduct of the police here, to say "Hey, let's not be hasty - we all know that ALL the problems black people have are brought upon them by being black."

Why would you blame one group completely and ask everyone to hold off any judgment on another group?

It seems a hypocritical, racist double standard you've given yourself.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:17 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

Not all are, but yeah, far too many.

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:24 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

Cite ?

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:27 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I really did like Scrubs. Thanks to Netflix, I've been power viewing all 9 seasons. Great show.

Yeah, but they seem to not have it in the housing projects. or maybe they dislike it so much, they destroyed it.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:41 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:47 PM (P)

Clever of you, Kiki, to imply that his posts are only of value as bumps, but he's too dumb to get it. Seems like he did figure out, dimly, that you were snarking at him somehow, but he wasn't bright enough to understand exactly how.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 6:53 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
changing the goal posts

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

Hey, we all know that JSF is a Raptard sock puppet, (And, baby, if I can see it and say it, the evidence is overwhelming.) but I'm starting to think that Thug here is one also. He's got the same style of argument.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:18 PM (P)

Frem,

once again, examples from your experience that lead to a sensible conclusion.
And thanks for the link to NoNonsenseSelfDefense. The Not-To-Do list from the guy (Peyton, I guess his name is.) boils it down to less than a Miranda Rights card. Cops should post it in their cars and have it just as available, to remind themselves to watch their behavior. It's worth quoting :

Quote:

1) Don't Insult Him
2) Don't Challenge Him
3) Don't Threaten Him
4) Don't Deny It's Happening
5) Give Him A Face Saving Exit (1)

If the cop in Ferguson had just rolled up beside those 2 blacks and said, "Hey, guys, for your own safety, I don't think you should walk down the middle of the street. Why don'tcha just go over there and walk on the sidewalk?"; maybe nothing would have happened.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:31 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

Maybe you're not Raptard's sock puppet. Maybe you're just the ghost of Ross Perot.

'Member when he was running for President? He went to the NAACP Convention to make a speech about race relations and race problems. And he said something, widely quoted, along the lines of, " You people have to solve your own problems." Stuck the knife in his own campaign right there. Everybody jumped on him. "You people", suggesting that "I sure as Hell ain't like you." and "gotta solve your own problem." Because I sure ain't gonna help. Which was the entire point of his campaign-- I got mine, lots of mine, and I ain't gonna help nobody else, not with nothin'.

But you sure don't go into their house, to publicly make nice; try to build your credentials; and ask for their support, and then say something like that.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:54 PM (P)

Ross was addressing a group, a specific group, who had invited him to speak. " You people " was a phony issue, fabricated by those who simply wanted to trash and old white guy who spoke w/ a Texas accent. Nothing more.

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

If Louis Farrakhan and Bill Cosby can both honestly point out that the black community needs to do better FOR THEMSELVES , instead of looking to Big Govt for help, and Ross Perot can't say the same thing w/ out being called 'racist', then you have a great problem of being disingenuous.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:57 PM (P)

1kiki

So 1kiki I see by your post you suggest this happens in Hispanic, Asian, White and poor American Indian neighborhoods as well. That’s a start. I see you agree with me this is not happening because they are black, as they always claim. Now you need to recognize that behavior plays a major role in this always happening. Sometimes it is a bad cop, but more times than not it is the dysfunction of the community that creates an atmosphere that boils over on occasion. If you do not believe the mental health in these communities’ function on a dysfunctional level, then you have no experience in how things are on the street.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:06 PM (P)

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

First you need to get off the spook hiding in the bushes shit. I am nobody's sock puppet. Last time I will have this conversation with you. As far as Ross goes I don't know if I would go as far as he, but he to realized the problem comes from within the community.

What is it you people believe? Do you think all the cops get out of bed each day and head out to try and disrupt the lives of others. All they want to do is make it through the day in one piece.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:10 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

Cite ?

"Do your own homework."

"I'll not be side tracked."

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

See "NRA".

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

First you need to get off the spook hiding in the bushes shit. I am nobody's sock puppet.

Bushes, or tomato plants?

AURAPTOR

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:18 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

See "NRA".

How does racial make up have anything remotely to do with a group which anyone can join?

And what ' problems ' do the NRA have , other than standing up for the 2nd Amendment ?

WOW. Complete and total comparison fail.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Frem,

once again, examples from your experience that lead to a sensible conclusion.
And thanks for the link to NoNonsenseSelfDefense. The Not-To-Do list from the guy (Peyton, I guess his name is.) boils it down to less than a Miranda Rights card. Cops should post it in their cars and have it just as available, to remind themselves to watch their behavior. It's worth quoting :

Quote:

1) Don't Insult Him
2) Don't Challenge Him
3) Don't Threaten Him
4) Don't Deny It's Happening
5) Give Him A Face Saving Exit (1)

If the cop in Ferguson had just rolled up beside those 2 blacks and said, "Hey, guys, for your own safety, I don't think you should walk down the middle of the street. Why don'tcha just go over there and walk on the sidewalk?"; maybe nothing would have happened.

This is what the left always does. Suggest that if you are always nice, if you only did this, nothing bad will happen. Tell that to the store clerk who just got robbed. It must have been because he was mean to the guys who robbed him right? Yes you have to police in a way that is community friendly but the left always assumes that the community will be friendly back. Wake up....these in many cases are very angry people. Just ask them, they will tell you they have been getting screwed all their lives. Result, anger....I'm a victim.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:46 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

That is such crap and shows how thousands of community, officer contacts can happen and the few negative ones you hear about determines your overall opinions. It seems like the theme of this thread. Very sad.

Larry DePrimo, NYPD Cop, Buys Homeless Man Boots (PHOTO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/29/larry-deprimo-nypd-cop-gives-
homeless-boots_n_2209178.html

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:49 PM (P)

Quote:
This is what the left always does. Suggest that if you are always nice, if you only did this, nothing bad will happen. Tell that to the store clerk who just got robbed. It must have been because he was mean to the guys who robbed him right? Yes you have to police in a way that is community friendly but the left always assumes that the community will be friendly back. Wake up....these in many cases are very angry people. Just ask them, they will tell you they have been getting screwed all their lives. Result, anger....I'm a victim.

And they are. So stop victimizing people.

This is like our approach to the world: we bomb the snot out of everybody, and then we wonder why so many people hate us!

FIRST, DO NO HARM.

The statistic that blew JSF's cookies was the the one about the highest crime rate AND the highest incarceration rate. (The qualifier to that is: "In the developed world.")
A punitive approach only generates blowback, either in your neighborhood or in the rest of the world. YOU CAN'T DEVELOP A SOCIETY ON THE BASIS OF A GUN. Everybody has to buy into what you're selling; most have to get enough out of it to agree to abide by the rules.

Start with JOBS. If there was a decent-paying JOB for everyone who wanted to/ could work, you wouldn't have so many idle young men filling their time with mischief, and looking for alternative ways to make money. If capitalism can't do it, then don't use a capitalistic approach.

ALSO, I fail to see the difference between these young men and the gun-toting white folk who defy the law. If violence is your answer, get out the APCs for them too.

Quote:
the few negative ones you hear about determines your overall opinions.

Is your head up there for the warmth? For all of the negative ones we hear about, there are THOUSANDS of negative events that we DON'T hear about. In a previous post, I brought up NYPD's "stop and frisk" policy- a policy of frisking and bringing in a quota of young black men, and then slapping some ridiculous charge on them ("resisting arrest" was a favorite, as was "jaywalking") so it wouldn't LOOK LIKE the NYPD was doing exactly what it was doing: targeting young black men just because they were male, young, and black.

According to residents in Ferguson, the police were doing the same thing there. The reason for arrest, according to people who've experienced it, is called "walking while black".

Treating EVERY SINGLE PERSON LIKE A CRIMINAL* is not going to win friends and influence people, and it's not going to reduce the crime rate. All it will do is make sure that everybody hates the PD's guts and that no one will cooperate with the PD, even when it comes to dealing with crime.

You really are a ....

---------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

*Also, if you noticed this is the NSA's approach: because somebody somewhere might be a terrorist, we'll rip up the Constitution and investigate EVERYONE. The authorities have really gone off the deep end. They see everyone as potential enemies. Maybe it's because they have a guilty conscience? Or maybe they're just drunk on power, and fucking paranoid.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:09 PM (P)

Sig

A black reporter, Eugene Robinson who won a noble prize was concerned about stop and frisk going away. He actually looked distraught while it was being discussed. His plea was that the program stay but they needed to start stopping more white folk. You see he knows what it means to eliminate the program. More black (not white) kids will start dying in the streets. Stop and frisk keeps many kids from carrying. Once they know they will not be stopped it starts all over again.

I was criticized for calling black communities war zones. A year does not go by that we do not lose more black teens to shooting that we did at the height of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars combined. They are war zones and the sooner more of you realize that the better positioned we will be to help. It's such an outrage when a white officer kills a black kid but not so much a problem that they kill each other by the thousands each year. How would you like to be a cop in those neighborhoods? How do you like paying all those taxes each year to clean it up? Maybe if they did not destroy the building they occupy and would stop wasting our resource within the court and health system we could build new schools there.

Thousands of Young Black Men Die in Gun Crimes Every Year
http://colorlines.com/archives/2012/03/thousands_of_young_black_men_di
e_in_gun_crimes_every_year.html

$52,000 to treat a gunshot victim? And doctors and nurses at Stroger Hospital in Chicago, a taxpayer funded county hospital, mend up black and brown victims of black and brown gun crime to the tune of 7-out-of-10 of these citizens not having health insurance?

The unit treats about 1,500 gunshots and stabbings a year.

http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2012/10/shot-through-hear
t-and-youre-to-blame.html

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:51 PM (P)

Yes, they are war zones, by WHY are they war zones???

We need start with nation-building, right here in our own borders.

But it's just so much easier to destroy than to build. And what we do best is destroy- just look at all of the neighborhoods we've destroyed everywhere throughout the world, including here in the USA. Great smoking clusterfucks everywhere we go, no matter if it's Aleppo or Detroit or Tegucigalpa.

Nation-building. Time to learn how.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:56 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yes, they are war zones, by WHY are they war zones???

We need start with nation-building, right here in our own borders.

But it's just so much easier to destroy than to build. And what we do best is destroy- just look at all of the neighborhoods we've destroyed everywhere throughout the world, including here in the USA.

Nation-building. Time to start.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

Ok first, stop bringing the rest of the world into this and focus on here. I agree with you but how it needs to be done is by those who live there. Once they make the move we really can help a lot. It is like stopping drinking though. You really have to want it to make the necessary changes. It very hard for them to take this on. A Marshal plan could be in order but remember with that plan the Japanese had very little say. Many of the people who live in these neighborhoods would buck against that. They have no idea how screwed up they are because they have spent most if not all of their lives blaming everyone else.

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:12 PM (P)

Quote:
Ok first, stop bringing the rest of the world into this and focus on here.

It's a little hard to just focus on "here", because so much of what we do "there" comes home to roost. The militarization of the police, for example, is a result of 9-11 and the "GWOT" ("global war on terror"). The intrusion of the NSA into everyone's life, and the view of EVERYONE as a potential terrorist is because of blowback from the rest of the world. And then, there is the (completely failed) "war on drugs". All we've managed to do is metastasize our gangs into central and south America, and now they're coming here to roost... again. You can't have a paranoid authoritarian alphabet agency/ military goon culture without it filtering down to the local PDs.

Quote:
I agree with you but how it needs to be done is by those who live there.

Bullshit. A neighborhood can't create it's own jobs. As long as the larger commercial economy in which they're embedded exists only to suck money out of poverty, nothing will ever happen. EVEN IF they band together and become hard-working, crime-intolerant neighborhoods, what are these people going to DO for jobs and honestly-earned money???

Quote:
Once they make the move we really can help a lot. It is like stopping drinking though. You really have to want it to make the necessary changes. It very hard for them to take this on.

These neighborhoods are created because of the predatory culture in which we all live. What is the difference between a bankster and a drug dealer, except the size of the crime? What "move" are they supposed to make that's going to make their neighborhoods thrive, economically?

You're speaking from an individual standpoint. Yes, AN individual can beat the odds. But the problem is, in THIS culture, your gain is someone else's loss. You get a job, someone loses one. You get a student loan, someone else has not gotten one. You get a home loan, someone else has failed.

If you can't apply your solution to EVERYBODY all at once, then it's not the solution these neighborhoods need.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:14 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

What is it you people believe? Do you think all the cops get out of bed each day and head out to try and disrupt the lives of others. All they want to do is make it through the day in one piece.

Well, speaking for myself, I believe in Joseph Wambaugh. I've read most of his novels. He's an ex-LAPD street cop and detective, in case you've never heard of him. You may not have: he writes long books, with big words in them and no pictures on the pages.

He presents street cops as a mix, some good, some bad, some smart, some dumb, some idealistic and some prejudiced. That's in L.A. IN Missouri, the mix is the same, but the percentages are different, probably. In a town with 85 % black population, run by a white government, where of the 53 officers in the Police force, 3 ( or maybe 6, I've seen that number lately, kinda like an update.) of 'em are black, in a border state, with a history of organized racism, what would YOU expect the percentages to be? What kind of guys would the (white) city council and chief hire? What are THEIR priorities?

But Wambaugh makes the point that all cops are intrusive, and aggressive. That's what they're trained to be, what their superiors want. That they feel that they MUST control EVERY situation. That force is their tool, and that no matter how much they use, they'll probably get away with it, because anybody that objects is a liberal pinko faggot, and that no matter what the official policy is, the organizations aren't gonna punish them unless they REALLY fuck up BAD. So bad that the whole world notices. Rodney King Bad. And that was LONG before the present concern about militarization of police forces, considering them as occupying armies oppressing the local animals, keeping them down and holding them back.

There. That's a chunk of what I believe.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:15 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

See "NRA".

How does racial make up have anything remotely to do with a group which anyone can join?

And what ' problems ' do the NRA have , other than standing up for the 2nd Amendment ?

WOW. Complete and total comparison fail.

I quoted your words exactly.

Quote:

... when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

Why are you trying to bring race into it now? Always playing the race card, aren't you, you miserable piece of human excrement?

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:25 PM (P)

Quote:
Ok first, stop bringing the rest of the world into this and focus on here.

Like you are? The way you keep wanting to focus on "here" by calling out all the problems you see with "them" and "their" neighborhoods.

"They" are *US*. "Their" neighborhoods are *OUR* neighborhoods. "Their" problems are *OUR* problems.

If we're a people, a race of human beings, a nation, a world, then we're all in this together.

You seem to keep wanting it to be "us" versus "them."

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:26 PM (P)

Quote:
But Wambaugh makes the point that all cops are intrusive, and aggressive. That's what they're trained to be, what their superiors want. That they feel that they MUST control EVERY situation. That force is their tool, and that no matter how much they use, they'll probably get away with it, because anybody that objects is a liberal pinko faggot, and that no matter what the official policy is, the organizations aren't gonna punish them unless they REALLY fuck up BAD.

It's like the old saying "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". So now, our PDs have BIGGER hammers. YIPPEE!

All you have to do is look at our budgets to see where our priorities are: hammers. And prisons. Fuck of a lot more expensive and intrusive than jobs, education, and drug treatment, but there's our problem right there: We have a hammer-centric view of problem-solving.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:58 PM (P)

Quote:

Quote:
…Me
Ok first, stop bringing the rest of the world into this and focus on here.

Quote:
….Sig
It's a little hard to just focus on "here", because so much of what we do "there" comes home to roost. The militarization of the police, for example, is a result of 9-11 and the "GWOT" ("global war on terror"). The intrusion of the NSA into everyone's life, and the view of EVERYONE as a potential terrorist is because of blowback from the rest of the world. And then, there is the (completely failed) "war on drugs". All we've managed to do is metastasize our gangs into central and south America, and now they're coming here to roost... again. You can't have a paranoid authoritarian alphabet agency/ military goon culture without it filtering down to the local PDs.

Subjective and not relevant to the topic. Gloom and doom because you are about bitching and pointing fingers not fixing.

Quote:
….Me
I agree with you but how it needs to be done is by those who live there.

Quote:
….Sig
Bullshit. A neighborhood can't create it's own jobs. As long as the larger commercial economy in which they're embedded exists only to suck money out of poverty, nothing will ever happen. EVEN IF they band together and become hard-working, crime-intolerant neighborhoods, what are these people going to DO for jobs and honestly-earned money???

Well there’s a good business model. Keep everyone poor which will help minimize our profits. You may think the cost of bread is higher but property values drop by the billions. Yes these communities can create jobs but that was not what I was speaking about. I was talking about them deciding they were going to effect change without waiting for society to bail them out. Then we could step in and help.

You have a typical leftie attitude. They can’t, which may pacify your need to lash out at those who have, but does little to effect change for those who don’t. (By the way, I am not someone who has much). Well, I say yes they can create jobs. Black leaders can court business to come to their neighborhoods. That’s how all leaders at all levels bring jobs to states and communities. The problem is the violence and undependable work force. That can only be addressed by the community itself. Some of what would be done people are trying to do, like getting local entrepreneurs up and going with loans.

Quote:
…Me
Once they make the move we really can help a lot. It is like stopping drinking though. You really have to want it to make the necessary changes. It very hard for them to take this on.

Quote:
…Sig
These neighborhoods are created because of the predatory culture in which we all live. What is the difference between a bankster and a drug dealer, except the size of the crime? What "move" are they supposed to make that's going to make their neighborhoods thrive, economically?

These neighborhoods continue to exist as predatory neighborhoods even though things in this country have changed dramatically. You keep wanting to bring the outside world into this. You preach of gloom and doom. You make it sound impossible. They can change it if they wish. Have you ever seen a so called ghetto movie? One that shows what living in one of these neighborhoods is like. Did you see the kids in the schools with graffiti all over the walls and how they act? Would you want to hire most of these kids? Did you feel the undercurrent of violence that was always a wrong word away? Many of these movies made were accurate depictions of life in these neighborhoods (remember I lived there). You can blame whomever you wish for creating the situation but that won’t fix it. You look at a movie like that and all you see is victims. I look at a movie like that and think this shit won’t cut it in the world outside this neighborhood and if they do not change things will never get better for them.

Quote:
….Sig

You're speaking from an individual standpoint. Yes

SIGNYM

Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:55 PM (P)

Quote:
These neighborhoods continue to exist as predatory neighborhoods even though things in this country have changed dramatically.

WHAT has changed dramatically? Can people live reasonably well even if they work 40 hours a week? Are decent-paying jobs available for everyone who wants to work? Are loans available for supportable rates? Has the wealth gap narrowed even a fraction? The "predatory culture" that I'm writing about isn't the predatory culture of the gangs, it's the predatory culture of the banks and corporations which- at least as far as I can tell- has not changed one whit. THAT is the predatory culture that these neighborhoods are embedded in- the one that makes fraudulent home loans and then repos entire neighborhoods, the one that pays next to nothing for next to nothing jobs, the one that charges 1000% for a payday loan.

Quote:
You said it. If they do not change the prevalent culture within their communities’ things will not change or get better for them.

What I'm saying.... which you failed to catch on to... is that EVEN IF they change "the culture" of their neighborhoods, it still won't create jobs. Poverty and lack of employment will STILL be the #1 issue.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:11 AM (P)

You just don't get it Sig. No one wants to do business there. As I just said in another thread, companies do not want to open businesses there. Why, because of the attitudes of those who live their. Why, because of the unreliability of the work force. Why, because of the violence. Why, because of the education level of the work force(or lack of). Why, because 50% of the work force has no experience working. I could go on and on but all you want to do is point out what should be, who did what to who and what is going on that resembles this globally and how too that is our fault.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:13 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Frem,

once again, examples from your experience that lead to a sensible conclusion.
And thanks for the link to NoNonsenseSelfDefense. The Not-To-Do list from the guy (Peyton, I guess his name is.) boils it down to less than a Miranda Rights card. Cops should post it in their cars and have it just as available, to remind themselves to watch their behavior. It's worth quoting :

Quote:

1) Don't Insult Him
2) Don't Challenge Him
3) Don't Threaten Him
4) Don't Deny It's Happening
5) Give Him A Face Saving Exit (1)

If the cop in Ferguson had just rolled up beside those 2 blacks and said, "Hey, guys, for your own safety, I don't think you should walk down the middle of the street. Why don'tcha just go over there and walk on the sidewalk?"; maybe nothing would have happened.

This is what the left always does. Suggest that if you are always nice, if you only did this, nothing bad will happen. Tell that to the store clerk who just got robbed. It must have been because he was mean to the guys who robbed him right? Yes you have to police in a way that is community friendly but the left always assumes that the community will be friendly back. Wake up....these in many cases are very angry people. Just ask them, they will tell you they have been getting screwed all their lives. Result, anger....I'm a victim.

You DO argue just like Rap. It's not what I always do. I did not suggest that "you " should always be nice. I suggested that a police officer always should. And if you read my post, or the quote you quoted or that I quoted again here, I did not say that " nothing bad will happen."
I typed very clearly 5 letters "m-a-y-b-e". That's an important word.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:16 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

That is such crap

You disagree that I saw such a video clip? Or you disagree that that is how most American cops would handle a drunk with a knife threatening to kill people?

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:17 AM (P)

BC

I stand corrected. However, we have had sensitivity training in place for many years and it is constantly being updated. The problem is, that the good behavior is mostly one sided. That is not to say there are not many great black people. It is just that they are not the ones the cops are always dealing with. They are dealing with those who have rap sheets as long or longer than your arm or even your leg. Hell, both legs.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:24 AM (P)

BC

Quote:
BC

You disagree that I saw such a video clip? Or you disagree that that is how most American cops would handle a drunk with a knife threatening to kill people?

I am suggesting one incident does not an accurate picture make. If you think the Brit cops don't get aggressive with hooligans you are very uninformed. They also have about 240 million less people to deal with. Our poor neighborhoods are much larger than theirs.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:38 AM (P)

Look, it may sound like I blame poor folks for everything that is wrong in their lives; not so. What I am trying to say is the way out is through hard work and school. I am not arguing they have not gotten and do not continue to receive a raw deal. All I am trying to say is it is not going to change and instead of banding together to complain they should band together to effect change within their own communities. Then our assistance will really make a difference. These communities have to learn to compete for what is out there and how to sell themselves as a viable commodity.

SECOND

Monday, August 18, 2014 12:47 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Look, it may sound like I blame poor folks for everything that is wrong in their lives; not so. What I am trying to say is the way out is through hard work and school. I am not arguing they have not gotten and do not continue to receive a raw deal. All I am trying to say is it is not going to change and instead of banding together to complain they should band together to effect change within their own communities. Then our assistance will really make a difference. These communities have to learn to compete for what is out there and how to sell themselves as a viable commodity.

"The appropriate emotion is shame — shame at our own dependency, in this case, on the underpaid labor of others. When someone works for less pay than she can live on — when, for example, she goes hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently — then she has made a great sacrifice for you, she has made you a gift of some part of her abilities, her health, and her life. The "working poor," as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else." -- http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barbara_Ehrenreich

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:24 AM (P)

Quote:
….Two
"The appropriate emotion is shame — shame at our own dependency, in this case, on the underpaid labor of others. When someone works for less pay than she can live on — when, for example, she goes hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently — then she has made a great sacrifice for you, she has made you a gift of some part of her abilities, her health, and her life. The "working poor," as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropists of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else." -- http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Barbara_Ehrenreich

Yes two all correct. This does not only pertain to inner cities though. More and more it speeds itself throughout society at large. More and more local municipalities scramble to find new and inventive ways of dealing with it. New ways to compete. Something lacking in minority communities. It is also a global free trade assisted truth. What you suggest is as old as time itself as far as the human race goes. That is why there is strength in numbers. That is why protests have broken out against wages in the fast food industry. That is why minimum wage has been taken up in Washington. It is why unions are so necessary. Union’s local workers vote against while they complain about their low incomes. My point throughout has been we know all this and have been citing it for decades. Has it fixed anything, not much I think? We have had decades of hearings in Washington, has it fixed anything, not much I think? Time and time again the leaders in these communities have marched too…..no avail.

The thing that has been missing is the corporation of far too many in the communities effected the worst. Their parents and grandparents were severely mistreated and they pass those emotions and world views to their children. Has that helped much, I think not? One reason the anonymous donor continues to exist is because he/ she stands alone. It is how the powers to be prevail. My point, they need to start the fix within themselves by taking back their communities from those who would kept it the way it exists today, those who bring trouble to the community that live there. Then they need to bring us in as partners not just donors.

SIGNYM

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:30 AM (P)

The whole paradigm of "competition" for the lowest wage is wrong. The only people who "win" in that competition are the "takers" (as opposed to the "makers"). I know you won't understand this, but I have no time to educate you right now. I just want to say you're an idiot, shooting yourself in the foot.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

1KIKI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:33 AM (P)

THUGR

I swear, you must really like the smell in there.

So - let's say the blacks do what you think they should do. They get quieter. Nicer. More 'respectful' of whites. They end every sentence with a Yas SUH! or No massah!

Do you really think it will make the slumlords invest more money in their oh so profitable slum housing - and cut their profits? Do you really think businesses will magically raise the employment rate and wages just to get blacks out of poverty? Do you really think more property tax money will appear and fill the coffers for better schools?

You have not ever answered this.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:35 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The whole paradigm of "competition" for the lowest wage is wrong. The only people who "win" in that competition are the "takers" (as opposed to the "makers"). I know you won't understand this, but I have no time to educate you right now. I just want to say you're an idiot, shooting yourself in the foot.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

How about we concern ourselves with getting some jobs to come to the community before we complain about wages? You always what to put the cart before the horse. I could see you now negotiating for a company to come to a poor neighborhood. First you would say how much are you going to pay us. Conversation over.

1KIKI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:40 AM (P)

It's like when he said that he TOO understood what it was like to be hated JUST BECAUSE of the color of his skin - and never really grasped the fact that that's what was going on with blacks.

The guy's a frelling idiot.

I think he was raised to believe that punishment came from doing wrong and reward came from doing right and if you could just figure out what to do you could control your environment. It's the thinking of a three year old, but he will never learn different. I'm sure his amygdala is now too large, his threat pathways have a hair-trigger, and his frontal lobes are diminished. It's wired into his neurological structure at this point.

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The whole paradigm of "competition" for the lowest wage is wrong. The only people who "win" in that competition are the "takers" (as opposed to the "makers"). I know you won't understand this, but I have no time to educate you right now. I just want to say you're an idiot, shooting yourself in the foot.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:44 AM (P)

1kiki

Look stupid. I am one of the only ones here being honest. All you and Sig know how to do is rile against the masses. The whole world is a fucked up place to you except Russia and it's America's fault. Wonderful, I wish you a lot of luck. When you leavin?

1KIKI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:48 AM (P)

"First you would say how much are you going to pay us."

What's wrong with that? Only a slave can't ask the question: what's in it for me?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

1KIKI

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:50 AM (P)

Still can't answer even one simple question? We figured. ;>

Originally posted by THGRRI:
1kiki

Look stupid. I am one of the only ones here being honest. All you and Sig know how to do is rile against the masses. The whole world is a fucked up place to you except Russia and it's America's fault. Wonderful, I wish you a lot of luck. When you leavin?

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 5:28 AM (P)

Click on this video to watch on YouTube and it will bring you to Morgan Freeman about wealth inequality.

Click on Morgan Freeman - The Roll Race & Gentics Plays In Wealth - CNN

For some reason every time now when I try to paste a video from say YouTube it won't work. It is as though it played and will not rewind?

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 5:46 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
BC

I stand corrected. However, we have had sensitivity training in place for many years and it is constantly being updated. The problem is, that the good behavior is mostly one sided. That is not to say there are not many great black people. It is just that they are not the ones the cops are always dealing with. They are dealing with those who have rap sheets as long or longer than your arm or even your leg. Hell, both legs.

Who is this "we " in your second sentence? Are you, in fact, a police officer? Or do you mean the " community" that you keep referring to? The black one? or the other, bigger one, the one made of everybody but the black folks?

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, August 18, 2014 5:51 AM (P)

Yanno, not really all that relevant to the conversation, but I think THGRRI missed a vital point about those kind of bad neighborhoods.
Maybe the attitude you got wasn't cause you were white, maybe it's because you're an asshole.
Guess that never occurred to you, huh ?

Me, I don't give a damn about race, most folks around here don't thankfully, and when asked about it by a resident some time ago, I pointed out that my ancestors and the IWW were pro-integration long before anyone else, they didn't care if you were a black rail car porter, chinese rail line worker, korean washerwoman, irish cop, if you were a working stiff, that was good enough for them - apparently word of that conversation went wider than expected, cause I still have occasional folks come up and ask me about the IWW now and then.

As for "being nice", there's a difference between being civil and starting a fight/escalating - you do shit you KNOW (or ought to know) is going to start a fracas, you got no right to bitch when it does.
And you plan for things to go south, even so - you just don't MAKE them.

Back to my Case One - detailed above, that wasn't bravado, cause while it might have LOOKED like one guy, alone and unarmed out in the darkness (which does wonders for street cred, sure) the reality is much different.
See, what woulda happened had they chosen to engage instead of leaving ?

Well, firstoff I picked that spot for a reason, it's in the angle of two cameras, one with active recording capability I switched on just before stepping out and the other being monitored by Stacey in the office, and since it was me out there any rumble was gonna clear the benches, which means in thirty-five seconds there'd be seven more guys out there with a significant edge in training and equipment, not to mention that one of my "flashlights" is in fact an extendable coilspring strike baton - so, hard lines for the bad guys there, HOWEVER...

Just cause you have force at hand ain't no cause to go waving it at people willy nilly just cause you can, and in fact "threat displays" like that tend to escalate a situation instead of shutting it down - had I, sayyy, whipped out that baton and stormed up to them getting all verbally aggressive, getting in their personal space and threatening them, they probably would have reacted with violence which would be in their mind *defensive*, in part cause of known biases of the system, racial and otherwise - Zimmerman walked despite it being obvious he was a murderous punk who initiated that confrontation without cause, yes ?

Which is again, where the officer who shot Brown fucked it up, firstoff he used aggressive language when it was not necessary, secondly he got too damn close (See Also: Tueller Drill), and third, he pulled his gun ON A JAYWALKER... seriously ?
And by virtue of the second screwup, did it close enough for things to go rodeo at close range, cause he was a fucking dumbass.
Fourth and finally, he fired TEN shots, and at an unarmed person - the autopsy on that is gonna be pretty damning anyways cause that means he shot Brown after he was on the ground and neutralized as a potential threat simply by virtue of how many shots were fired, logical conclusion there.

Even if no shots had been fired, even if nothing had come of it but harsh words and hurt feelings, the officer *STILL* inexcuseably fucked up in multiple ways which indicate bad attitudes and piss poor training.
THOSE are widespread isssues needing to be rectified, and one of the reasons I think body cameras are a good idea - shit, *I* wouldn't mind one, cause it would be more efficient than having to whip out and boot up my Vivitar DVR410 when something needs documenting, and I train all my people to behave as if they were on-camera the whole time they're on duty, which is only sensible in that we have a couple of our own and you never know when someone with a cellphone or webcam is going to point it at you, so the simple solution is DON'

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 5:51 AM (P)

BC

Society is we. Check out the Morgan Freeman video. Best bet is to do a YouTube search using the title above the video. For some reason the short cut does not bring you to the clip.

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 6:04 AM (P)

Nope Fern not the reason. Stop pretending you understand the street. Mental Health plays a major role here. Since you do not understand that you are not a reliable source for how to go about making things right.

Do you really believe the Black community could be traumatized for generations and still function normally? There is a kind of institutionalization that engulfs these communities along with what effects soldiers after combat. Post Dramatic Stress Disorder. You people are so consumed with the problems that exist outside these communities you forget to look inside. Put down the self-righteous signs. They don't mean shit to me. I try and keep it real. I may be off the mark a bit but some of you here are clueless as to how these communities function.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 6:06 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
BC

Quote:
BC

You disagree that I saw such a video clip? Or you disagree that that is how most American cops would handle a drunk with a knife threatening to kill people?

I am suggesting one incident does not an accurate picture make. If you think the Brit cops don't get aggressive with hooligans you are very uninformed. They also have about 240 million less people to deal with. Our poor neighborhoods are much larger than theirs.

I was not discussing British police interacting with hooligans. I WAS discussing a documented episode of a British policeman interacting with a drunken, possibly homicidal, person waving a knife, and how he did handle it;vs how an American cop would have handled it. YOU evaded that part of the question. How do YOU think an American cop would have handled it? Am I wrong in suggesting that he would have considered it a lethal threat, and outed his firearm and opened up?

Considering how 2 armed cops here in L A were confronted by a 90 pound 80 year old black woman armed with a sharpened screwdriver, and were, officially, "in fear of their lives", so they killed her?

Or the white BART cop in San Francisco (from South Africa , he was, a place with a great record on racial equality.) who had a suspect on the ground, handcuffed, and reached for his Tazer to stun him, but mistook his own gun for the Tazer, even though the handle is deliberately a different shape, and shot and killed the guy.

Or the NYC cops who thought a black man was reaching for a gun, so they shot him, and what was in his hands was his Wallet?

Or maybe this in Ferguson, where a suspect was fleeing, then had his hands up to surrender, and the officer reportedly continued to fire, shooting him in the back, and killing him? ( OH, yeah, where the local cops won't release the autopsy report, because it probably will tell where the bullet holes were, and how many.)

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 6:08 AM (P)

BC

Yea ok I give up. Your talking about anecdotal bullshit that means nothing. This country is 19% black and you want to discuss a few different incidents. 19% out of 310 million. That is a lot of black folk and you think what you just posted shows a pattern?

THGRRI

Monday, August 18, 2014 6:23 AM (P)

SHINYGOODGUY

Yeah ok, show the arrest record of anyone under 18. It's illegal. As far as the courts are concerned once you are 18 your juvenile record is sealed.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, August 18, 2014 8:24 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Nope Fern not the reason. Stop pretending you understand the street. Mental Health plays a major role here. Since you do not understand that you are not a reliable source for how to go about making things right.

Oh put a sock in it, tomato farmer.

You *DO* realize that I run night security for an apartment complex directly across the street from the roughest neighborhood in the county, and happen to reside at said apartment complex, yes ?

That said, three factors have caused the crime rate around here to swan-dive since 2008.
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti/statistics-show-drastic-drop-in
-west-willow-crime/

One, after being investigated, sued for nearly eight million and having their chops busted six ways to sunday, the local Law Enforcement took all the nasty old bastards who had a habit of beating up minorities for fun and assigned them to guarding the courthouse, replacing them with a more idealistic crowd of younger cops - they're still greedy and corrupt, but a little more inclined to be humane, and that counts for a lot, special props to Roy and Krings, who checked out a couple bicycles and went riding around the neighborhood talking to people like people, instead of acting like an invading army, and they got some pretty good mileage of out that.

Quote:
The approach helps the deputies regularly meet and interact with residents and improve what some say was a formerly strained relationship between the neighborhood and Sheriff's Department. Those improved relationships, police officials say, will help deputies fight crime.

http://www.annarbor.com/news/sheriffs-department-ypsilanti-township-se
e-early-signs-of-success-in-summer-crime-plan/

Two was the budget issue, we wound up cutting their budget in response to some misbehavior, and they threw a total hissyfit including a couple of vaguely threatening editorials and started "enforcing" traffic (i.e. revenue generation via tickets and forfeiture) so viciously it bordered on downright harrassment, and topped it off with busting a charity poker game and seizing all the money, so we cut their budget AGAIN and sharpened the axe some more - at which point they decided maybe behaving in a more professional manner was the better course of action.

Relative to that, they now want the police, fire and EMT budgets rolled into a single "public safety" one like most places have, thinking that might make us more reluctant to swing the budget axe, but said initiative was cut to ribbons at the polls.
We also on that same ballot made possession of cannabis "Officially the lowest priority of law enforcement" - by a margin of around 90%... Sheriff Clayton, who's a bit of a dick about this, then had his boys go all out busting anyone with weed, to which the community made him well aware that we could also RECALL his ass with that 90% margin and he sat down and shut up for now...
Amazing how much real work cops can get done when they're not caught up in that "War on (some) Drugs" bullshit - the average burglar around here generally gets caught in less than 14 days now.
And without all the fancy war toys, it handily eliminates the everything-looks-like-a-nail problem, too.

And third - a lot of these neighborhoods, even some really poor ones, went and invested in private and contract security.
We're not cops, we do not enforce the law, just protect the turf we're paid to, but it's a surprisingly inexpensive option, one neighborhood around here finances theirs by taking up a collection at the local church, of all things.
But what it does do, is frees up police resources which'd otherwise be bogged down in the petty stuff we handle ourselves, bonus that they can skip patrols of those areas and if something does happen they have a slightly-more-professional witness with a smidge more credibility than joe sixpack.
While there's no love lost in either direction (I've caught the local prosecutor in some chicanery regarding

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:33 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
BC

I stand corrected. However, we have had sensitivity training in place for many years and it is constantly being updated. The problem is, that the good behavior is mostly one sided. That is not to say there are not many great black people. It is just that they are not the ones the cops are always dealing with. They are dealing with those who have rap sheets as long or longer than your arm or even your leg. Hell, both legs.

I heard about one several years ago, here in LA, at a time of interracial police abuse. A black journalist bet a media coverage team that he could cause police misconduct. He got 3 black friends, they dressed up in business suits, took his respectable car downtown and parked it illegally. They had a hidden camera watching, taping. They stayed in the car. Cop drove by, came back, red lights. The driver got out of the car. Cop demanded his ID. That's legal: a cop has the right to request that of the driver, to prove he's licensed, not suspended, registered owner, etc. Cop then demanded ID's of the passengers. Courts have ruled that a cop does not have a right to do that without probable cause. They refused , cop got pissed. He was gonna arrest and handcuff them all. They demanded that he call a sergeant. He did, Sgt. showed up, chewed his ass for exceeding his authority. Over a matter than at most would have been a parking ticket.

The Sergeant knew the law and the regs, the patrol cop either did not, in spite of training, or violated them. No discipline was given to the patrol officer. When the videos got broadcast, the big Chief responded that it was unfair, the officer was entrapped. But at that point, the patrol officer was disciplined. Letter of reprimand in his file or some such.

In spite of the fact that he tried to violate the Constitutional rights of 3 respectable appearing free citizens, on a matter of settled legal precedent. That law has been changed since, after the Patriot Act. Cop can demand the ID of anybody anywhere-- they might be TERRORISTS !

ELVISCHRIST

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:41 AM (P)

Ferguson Store Owner Says He Doesn’t Believe That’s Mike Brown On Surveillance Video

Quote:
The surveillance tapes supposedly shows Michael Brown “robbing” a Ferguson convenience store market. But in spite of the fact that the “robbery” was carried out without the brandishing of a weapon, and in spite of the fact that this was really more a case of petty theft shoplifting, this Friday, for the first time, the owners of the store have said that they never said they believed Michael Brown was the individual who stole the item from their store.

In fact, while the owners are speaking out through an attorney about the surveillance video, the mainstream, corporate media are largely ignoring everything they said, pretending that this video definitively identifies Michael Brown as the strong arm shoplifter.

The owners claim that this is a claim the police have come up with on their own. For his part, Dorian Johnson, a witness to the shooting of Michael Brown, has reportedly confessed to being with Brown in the convenient store. But for now, that has not been corroborated by the store owner, employees or eye witnesses. As well, we are not hearing this from Johnson himself, so a number of questions remain.

Through their attorney, the owner of the store also even dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911. They say that a customer inside the store made the call. This is pretty strange if this was indeed a “robbery”.

As well, in addition to clarifying that they never said they believed, nor identified the suspect with Michael Brown, they claimed that the St. Louis County issued the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday, based on the police claiming that Brown fit the description of the person in the video… the person who the owners and employees of the store were not even going to call the police on. Again, the owner clarifies that neither the management, nor any employee ever identified Brown as the suspect in that video.

They simply never said they believed that, this was a claim made by the police alone. So the real question is why the media has been taking the word of the police on this matter, even over the word of the eye witnesses and the store owner?

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doe
snt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/

But the raptard has already verified the video, so the store owner's account of things is moot, right?

Right?

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:41 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The whole paradigm of "competition" for the lowest wage is wrong. The only people who "win" in that competition are the "takers" (as opposed to the "makers"). I know you won't understand this, but I have no time to educate you right now. I just want to say you're an idiot, shooting yourself in the foot.

--------------
THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.

Yep , Sig, That's why companies export jobs. Has nothing to do with reliability of workers, crime rate, anything else. If they can get their stuff made in China while paying their workers a bowl of rice a day, vs. any minimum hourly wage anywhere in America, they'll go THERE EVERY TIME.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:48 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
1kiki

Look stupid. I am one of the only ones here being honest. All you and Sig know how to do is rile against the masses. The whole world is a fucked up place to you except Russia and it's America's fault. Wonderful, I wish you a lot of luck. When you leavin?

Yep, ya better watch out Kiki, ya Commie bitch. And Siggy too. and probably NOBC too, only 'cept he's a Commie faggot.

Maybe y'all oughtta love it or leave it. . 'Merica, right or wrong, only 'cept ALL you wanta do is talk about what's wrong.

Ad hominem argument very much?

More and more like Rappy every post.

ELVISCHRIST

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:51 AM (P)

I'm just going to leave this over here where it will be out of the way and unnoticed...

ELVISCHRIST

Monday, August 18, 2014 9:55 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
1kiki

Look stupid. I am one of the only ones here being honest. All you and Sig know how to do is rile against the masses. The whole world is a fucked up place to you except Russia and it's America's fault. Wonderful, I wish you a lot of luck. When you leavin?

Yep, ya better watch out Kiki, ya Commie bitch. And Siggy too. and probably NOBC too, only 'cept he's a Commie faggot.

Maybe y'all oughtta love it or leave it. . 'Merica, right or wrong, only 'cept ALL you wanta do is talk about what's wrong.

Ad hominem argument very much?

More and more like Rappy every post.

Yessir.

And if you've been paying attention, *ALL* of the problems in "their" neighborhoods - you know, the *black* neighborhoods - are their own fault for not changing what's wrong with them.

However, if you should ever try to point out what's wrong with America as a whole, why then, mister, you'd better dust off your knuckles and get ready for some chin music, cause them's fightin' words, and in Ronald Reagan's America, you better say we're the best or get the hell out!

He seems to be even more mentally fucked than the raptard, if that's at all possible.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 10:03 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Nope Fern not the reason. Stop pretending you understand the street

First off, maybe you oughtta stop calling him FERN. Give him some respect, asshole. He goes by the screen name FREM. And don't pull some crap about being dislexic or some shit like that. Either quit being malicious or learn to read and type.

And as for him understanding the street, haven't you read anything he's written? He runs security in a Housing Project, in Detroit, if I remember right. He gets PAID to work for the residents there, to protect them, to help deal with their dangers. Sounds like, from everything he's written over YEARS, he gets along with them, and they get along with/ like/ respect HIM.

Sorry, Frem, I don't wanta piss in your pool, and I know you don't need anybody to stick up for you, but I'm tired of listening to him diss you.

E-T-A: Frem, also hadn't seen your response. I just mostly repeated what you wrote. You don't need me to stick up for ya.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Monday, August 18, 2014 10:19 AM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

Ferguson Store Owner Says He Doesn’t Believe That’s Mike Brown On Surveillance Video

Quote:
The surveillance tapes supposedly shows Michael Brown “robbing” a Ferguson convenience store market. But in spite of the fact that the “robbery” was carried out without the brandishing of a weapon, and in spite of the fact that this was really more a case of petty theft shoplifting, this Friday, for the first time, the owners of the store have said that they never said they believed Michael Brown was the individual who stole the item from their store.

In fact, while the owners are speaking out through an attorney about the surveillance video, the mainstream, corporate media are largely ignoring everything they said, pretending that this video definitively identifies Michael Brown as the strong arm shoplifter.

The owners claim that this is a claim the police have come up with on their own. For his part, Dorian Johnson, a witness to the shooting of Michael Brown, has reportedly confessed to being with Brown in the convenient store. But for now, that has not been corroborated by the store owner, employees or eye witnesses. As well, we are not hearing this from Johnson himself, so a number of questions remain.

Through their attorney, the owner of the store also even dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911. They say that a customer inside the store made the call. This is pretty strange if this was indeed a “robbery”.

As well, in addition to clarifying that they never said they believed, nor identified the suspect with Michael Brown, they claimed that the St. Louis County issued the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday, based on the police claiming that Brown fit the description of the person in the video… the person who the owners and employees of the store were not even going to call the police on. Again, the owner clarifies that neither the management, nor any employee ever identified Brown as the suspect in that video.

They simply never said they believed that, this was a claim made by the police alone. So the real question is why the media has been taking the word of the police on this matter, even over the word of the eye witnesses and the store owner?

http://countercurrentnews.com/2014/08/ferguson-store-owner-says-he-doe
snt-believe-thats-mike-brown-on-surveillance-video/

But the raptard has already verified the video, so the store owner's account of things is moot, right?

Right?

Also I saw here where The Raptard claimed that the dead kid, Mike Brown , had the cigars on his person-- well, body-- well, corpse. Haven't seen that one in print anywhere. But if The Raptard says it's true, it absolutely must be accurate and correct. Like so many other things he's been absolutely correct about.

1KIKI

Monday, August 18, 2014 10:46 AM (P)

REALLY THUGR ? Morgan Freeman? You found ONE PERSON who agrees with you so you claim it's THE TRUTH? That's really sad.

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Click on this video to watch on YouTube and it will bring you to Morgan Freeman about wealth inequality.

Click on Morgan Freeman - The Roll Race & Gentics Plays In Wealth - CNN

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, August 18, 2014 1:56 PM (P)

An interesting article, I wont post it and clog up the thread but there to read if you are interested.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/16/ferguson-michael-brown-un
rest-reality-segregated-society

I guess that was my question, given some of the arguments here about 'the black community' is why is there segregation even now?

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, August 18, 2014 2:11 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

British cops are not armed, except with the baton thingee. Australian cops are armed, but dont tend to have the same aggression as Americans. But then we dont have a heavily armed population.

You know who is over represented in our prison population - men - they account for 98 % of all prisoners, which lead me to believe that men as a community are not interested in bettering themselves, and are destructive as a gender and they clearly want easy fixes to improve their lot in life.

Nothing will change so long as the men think it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their lives that are being destroyed, not women's. It's their lives that are disrupted not women. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.

AURAPTOR

Monday, August 18, 2014 7:14 PM (P)

Autopsey out. Brown not shot in the back.

ELVISCHRIST

Monday, August 18, 2014 7:21 PM (P)

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
REALLY THUGR ? Morgan Freeman? You found ONE PERSON who agrees with you so you claim it's THE TRUTH? That's really sad.

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Click on this video to watch on YouTube and it will bring you to Morgan Freeman about wealth inequality.

Click on Morgan Freeman - The Roll Race & Gentics Plays In Wealth - CNN

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

That's odd - when NOBC and others posted recaps on incidents where the cops murdered black folks, the thugger breezily dismissed it as bullshit and anecdotal.

Yet oddly he now seems to want to cite as proof of his stance a single piece of anecdotal evidence.

Isn't that quaint?

Jongsstraw: "Fuck you and the gangbanged skank that didn't abort you."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56881

"If you don't know that, you're just a huge fucking idiot."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=56819&p=2

"Prove you're not an asshole."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=56761

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