Edge of Tomorrow
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Saturday, October 18, 2025 16:24
VIEWED: 42105
PAGE 2 of 3
Watched over the weekend. The previous times I had watched, I had not realized how confused viewers would be, until after explaining things here and discovering some still didn't get it. So I wanted to see again to better understand why so many could be so confused. There were no more showings that I could find until this weekend.
So, I was reminded about many things which I have not posted about, much of which I conjured most would not understand, and some of which I had previously thought was too obvious. I observed some things I hadn't gotten before. I reviewed some things I thought I recalled correctly, and some I wasn't sure about.
Might take me a little time to complete this post, or I'll break it up into several.
SPOILER ALERT
WARNING OF SPOILER DISCUSSION IN THIS POST, MAYBE THE NEXT FEW POSTS BY ME
DO NOT READ THIS POST UNLESS YOU WANT TO RISK YOUR VIEWING ENJOYMENT TO BE COMPROMISED.
SPOILER ALERT.
Disclaimer: These are my opinions and observations. Perhaps some of them are not agreed upon by others. Perhaps the scriptwriters were careless in their sequencing of scenes and they did not intend to portray what I viewed, perhaps they only placed scenes in certain sequence as accident or coincidence.
I noticed the sequence used in the film.
Cage arrives in helicopter just before 9am.
Cage tasered, must wake a few hours later (afternoon or early evening) at Processing. This is the time he resets to.
Most times, he must sleep sometime, before invasion assault at 6am next morning.
Original life: Rita dies soon on beach, then J-squad gets what they had coming. Then Cage kills Alpha (one Alpha per 6 million mimics, is this the only one on the beach to repel the invasion?)
First reset, Rita steals his battery. Invasion is 0600 (6am).
Many many times Rita shoots Cage in the head - many viewers will want to loop this sequence to see Cruise dying over and over.
Cage has broken leg, crawling away from Rita, then gets the vision. (does Omega send the Trap vision after locating him, because he had X number of repetitive resets to enable Omega to focus on him - Doc Carter and Rita think vision is progress, when it is really setback)
Rita: "Training is over, you need to find a way off the beach"
Fail to make it off the beach - Rita always dead (Omega cannot allow her to accompany Cage to the vision Trap, to make him bleed out)
Cage stares at Rita, she says "is something on my face?" Bar/bridge in London. In bar, he already states the Mimic Horde will win, and get whatever they want - he is already defeatist.
Doc Carter finds location of Turner Dam, from Cage's vision.
Cage is training intensely, WITHOUT Rita. He continues to fail, and getting frustrated.
Rita says to Cage, "You can do this"
Cage rescues J-Squad from their imminent original demise on the beach. This is how the breakthrough to getting off the beach occurs.
Helicopter/death, Rita always dead (Omega cannot allow her to accompany Cage to the vision Trap, to make him bleed out)
Cage goes it without Rita, he is distraught and ticked, allows all around him to die (Rita will die on the beach before he gets to the Omega, no matter what he does). He finds the Trap.
Reconvene with Carter (Cage points out Verdun was a Trap for Rita, likely knows Henderson had to die - all 300 times - before Rita could get to her Trap, as well), Rita and Cage to the General at Whitehall for the device.
At the Louve, Rita explains to Cage they will both die here.
The time reset units were fuzzy before, and now are more confusing. Everybody says "resets the day" but this seems to be slang, or generalization, but I have not logically nailed it down. More on this later if I run out of time now.
Now I understand FMB. Didn't know before, and when I asked talk devolved into the Beach, it seemed - I had no idea why the beach scene was of huge interest. Sure, it is the Gauntlet, it is the Crucible, but I didn't see m
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SPOILER ALERT
CONTINUATION OF SPOILER DISCUSSION.
New things I've thought, from new viewings.
I did notice that th4e scenes were not just repeated cuts from the same footage, they were each re-shot segments. In the first landing, Cage's visor gets smashed, and knocked off - I figured this was for the viewers to see who the star was, without the obstruction in front of his eyes (like when F-14 pilots in Top Gun fly about with their oxygen masks - with mics - hanging loose, which every flight film after that copied). Then the first reset, his helmet remains intact, visor stays on. Throughout the flik, various shots are shown with visor, without visor, not sure if there is meaning intended for these different continuities.
Some have positied this film is the redemption of Major William Cage. I don't think that is the case. I currently think it is actually the story of the redemption of J-squad. To start with, J-squad is abunch of miserable, selfish a-holes.
Original timeline: J-squad efffectively burn Cage at the stake, not allowing him to unsafe his weapon. He becomes the sole person able to save them, if his weapon had been brought hot, but since they never let him unsafe his weapon, he could not save them, and they got what they deserved, fulfilling their self-prophecy.
After resets, Cage is able to help some of them, like Kimmel not getting pancaked by the falling plane section.
Eventually, Cage seems to find out that he must save J-squad from their imminent original demise in order for he and Rita to survive and escape the beach. This is when Cage turns around their fate.
After losing the power, Cage and Rita need more troops to save the human race from extinction, and Cage convinces them, and they come to redeem themselves, selflessly sacrificing themselves in the BELIEF they might possibly save the human race, although they are sure to all die.
After the victory (or before), they are all alive, remaining so, unaware of their heroism when they were faced with being the only hope that mankind had left. All of J-squad answering the call of Hero of Verdun, up to Griff and Skinner at the end, they gave all they had. Including Cage giving up not only his life, but acknowledging the demise of Rita, which he had worked so hard to circumvent.
Time reset units.
Time resets to his awaking from the Tasering. This is afternoon or early evening, likely. This is not the beginning of a day. Sometimes he dies a few hours after this (in Rita's training gym), but he never resets to arriving in London in the chopper. Sometimes he lasts throught the beach, into the evening at the helicopter house "it's going to be dark soon" and the bridge is also late in the day of the invasion.
So, how many hours is the reset? "Reset the day" doesn't seem to apply, or it would reset to the morning of the invasion, or else to the morning ao his arrival into London.
Is it that Alphas can reset the day (or Omega does it for them), and then the Omega itself controls a greater time power, hence the reset to Cage arriving in London aboard chopper?
I have not resolved this - has anybody else?
Was Henderson (who Rita watched die 300 times) also one who had absorbed the time reset power? Clearly, Henderson was to Rita as Rita is to Cage - Omega must get Cage to the Trap alone so Cage can be bled out, and must kill Rita at first before leaving the beach, and then at the helicopter scene. And for Rita, Henderson had to be killed off by Omega before Rita could get to her Trap and get bled out. So, was Henderson just an unlucky SOB, or was he also a previously empowered time resetter?
I had wondered about mental fatigue of Cage, and likely of Rita in her time. He keeps resetting to his same body, that of a Madmen PR slob, no reflexes or strength. His resets allow him to only learn in his head, he has no time to tone or strenthen his body, teach it physical reflexes - it must all be mental. He has the same amount of food each time, the same amount of res
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Has no one else gone to see this?
Hey, I'm in large part overjoyed at the poor ratings because I want to see the Cult Man's movie returns go to crap as a message of what the USA thinks of his cult way of living. FAIL you Scientology freak LOL! Get a real life before you try selling us a movie!
And yet... The goodness of this movie is not the the lead actor cult freak with the nice hair. I'm sad to say that anyone who avoids this movie based on Tom Cruise disgust is really missing something worthwhile, something created by a whole bunch of non-cult folks who deserve recognition.
If only they had cast it differently, I would love this movie all out.
*sigh*
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What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
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Took 2 months for this to get to my local budget cinema. That seems like a while nowadays.
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Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
Be sure to include your fave lines with your post.
Matrix probably doesn't rate as high for me in this category as Highlander and Inception, plus Terminator 2 and Firefly.
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Upon further review, I should point out that I had confused "The Bridge" scene following the Bar scene with "the Bridge" on top of "The Dam" scene on Turner Dam - neither of which had Cage riding his motorcycle. There are a number of quoted and named scenes which are unclear, and this was one I misunderstood from the description/recall.
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Class is in session (boy that was cocky) I'm feeling the flow..............
"I think you have it backwards."
Perhaps I do, but let's dig a little deeper, shall we!?
The Theme: The heart of the matter
Skipping on down to his first encounter with Master Sgt. Farrell
Farrell sizes him up and, through his vast experience, he instinctively knows the type he's dealing with. He's a liar (ad man) and a coward, putting himself above others. Selfish, etc.
Cannot possibly agree, absolutely not. Farrell does not "size him up" because he has in his pocket a basket of lies that he, a retarded Kentuckian, is feeble-minded and gullible enough to believe.
Quote:
Why am I going this way? Patience grasshopper, it will all come together.
Farrell strips him of his rank - he is now a private. The military routinely does this, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate.
Abysmally incorrect. Farrell does not strip him of his rank - no Non-Commissioned Officer can ever strip anybody of their rank, even in this doofus UDF, let alone a United States Armed Services Officer Commissioned by the United States Congress, and far from being able to do so of a Field Grade Officer (Major). A demotion from Major to Captain (a non-Field Grade Commissioned Officer) is NOT a routine occurrence. A demotion from Major to either First or Second Lieutenant is even further from routine. All of these require the concurrence of the demoted Officer, or a Court-Martial. A demotion from any rank to Private is NOT a routine occurrence, unless from the rank immediately above Private (perhaps Private First Class) and then under UCMJ Articles as long as the demoted waives rights to a Court-martial.
I am sure you cannot elaborate, because you have no clue.
Quote:
It's about to get real!
He goes to battle and, just as the sergeant said, thought of himself and used the bomb to survive. Little did he know that was the beginning of his "baptism" and hence to the beginning of his journey and his fate. Not battle (Ooo, I have goosebumps) but to meet Rita.
Damn, I'm good!
You are still grossly misinformed. He was thinking of himself when he tried to save J-squad by announcing the mimic was surfacing amidst them? Really? Using the Claymore Mine to KILL the ALIEN INVADER was mere selfishness?
I cannot agree with any of this.
Quote:
More on that later. let me answer your question directly.
She trains him because he's their only hope for survival. She must do everything in her power to give him her experience, and hope that he will
OK, you get this part right.
Quote:
Now, each time he resets, he sees her bus poster and she's becoming more to him than just his trainer. We all know that, so on to the helicopter scene where she dies. Yes, he realizes that they cannot get past that point, and "we" see that he cares for her. He doesn't want to live in a world without her, so I agree with you. But it is her determination, coupled with his emotional connection to her, that drives him now. He is no longer thinking of self. He has become HERO.
This seems backwards. He is selfish because HE WANTS HER, HE wants Her more than the remainder of the human race to survive. SHE is not selfish, she is willing to sacrifice, and beyond, she is trying to distance herself from him to prevent his selfishness from usurping her goal of killing the Omega. I might venture that she may be intent on sacrificing herself for her goal, whether or not Cage survives, and she is seriously ticked when she finds out he is tr
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More of the further review...
SPOILER ALERT
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I agree with you that the scene in the bar is not him deserting, but rather him taking a break to regroup, recharge and see what angle he could approach the battle from. Even when the old codgers insult him by calling him a coward, it doesn't phase him,
I'm a little fuzzy on the timeline myself, but that moment on the bridge was a crucial moment. During his training by Rita, he constantly complains whenever she goes to "reset" because he's hurt or wounded.
I disagree. Those resets mostly stop once the Omega locates him and gives him the vision. Those constant, repetitive resets were what allowed the Omega to localize him to send him the Trap.
Quote:
By the helicopter/Rita scene he's already in love with her, and, for the life of him, he can't figure out how to save her.
He was already in love with her when he couldn't get off the beach without her dying every time, when she said "is something on my face" and before going to the Bar. IMO, but perhaps I'm just too romantic. (noun, not adjective)
Quote:
JSF's opinions notwithstanding.............
To me the bridge scene was saying to us and to Cage - the battle at the beach was lost and now the aliens were IN London. The look on his face was "Shit, this is serious. I gotta do something NOW!" Then he resets. If I remember it correctly, it is then that he gets his game face on and bares down on his training that even Rita looks at him and says "Wow, look at him go."
Still disagree. He got serious when trying to get off the beach without Rita being dead. He "resets" when she tells him "You can do this"
Quote:
There is a great sequence where he's so focused that he destroys all the practice robots with such ease and assuredness.
but he still couldn't get off the beach, until he figures out that saving J-squad gets him off the beach.
Quote:
The Bridge Scene (as I call it) was when he sees "this is it," as I stated above, but yeah it's been establish by brilliant writing. But remember Rita tells him that it was a trap,
No. Cage explains to Rita and Carter that her vision was a trap, she and Carter don't see it until Cage points it out. Now he knows his was a trap, and he is also trying to make her feel better about her role. And this scene is after he gets to Turner Dam, and escaping from his trap.
Quote:
so that's in the back of everyone's mind. Could they be setting Cage up for another trap? You see how that is worked in so smoothly by the writers. The seed is planted. But what Cage realizes is that the aliens must have won at the beach because here they are in London. it's like the final chess piece.
Cage already knew this, he stated so in the Bar, where he ran out of onto the Bridge. He just didn't know what time they would get to London.
Quote:
The Rita/Helicopter Death scene: Again the writing. It is here where we come to see just how much Cage cares for Rita. The coffee, the little details, the wanting to know her middle name. But there's more and "we" find out as Rita does, that Cage is holding out. In an attempt to save her, he withholds the keys to the copter. With all his fussing over her, she figures it out. He's trying to hard to have her stay there, because he knows she dies and he can't stop or change it. Remember back when the Big guy with no underwear gets smushed by the transporter and Cage turns away as if saying, what the hell he's toast. Well, he comes to that same reality with Rita at this point. It here where I think he decides, "I'm not going to find her and go it alone."
The writing was so good there because we find out at the same moment that Rita does.
I don't think I get what you're saying here. We and she find out together that he is holding out?
Quote:
T
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More of the further review.
SPOILER ALERT
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yes, I had read that the book's ending was too dark for public consumption. Tom Cruise "suggested" the happier ending, another take on the romantic comedy boy-meets-girl syndrome.
Haven't read the book. But if the ending changed as you suggest, he was still the ultimate hero, but nobody, nobody, even Cage, knew about it. Meaning if he didn't fall into the Omega.
Quote:
To me it felt like Tom Terrific set it up for Cage to be the ultimate hero, again saving the day. In my ending both top the hill, both are heroes.
She saves him (the training) which allows him to save her (reset the day).
Like they would listen to little old me.
She saves him by explaining the problem, keeping him out of psych ward, out of disection.
Quote:
SGG
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I think I'm caught up with the further review.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
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Yeah, I know.............ya miss me, but I would really like to discuss the film intelligently so I'm waiting on the DVD so we can get into it - Firefly style.
Obviously we both have a hankering for movie-buff debate, it's just a month away.
One thing's for sure we both like this movie and the great potential for great storytelling in the future. Plus the fact that there's not much else, maybe Guardians, worth discussing.
Be patient grasshopper!
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
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Quote:Edge of Tomorrow is today for sale on iTunes.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Be patient grasshopper!
$19.99 for HD, $14.99 for SD
Where iTunes go, there be pirates, Matey.
http://sceper.ws/2014/09/edge-of-tomorrow-2014-720p-web-dl-x264-ac3-zi
kas.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know.............ya miss me,
I was only missing your "next few days response" here. From 5 August.
Quote:
but I would really like to discuss the film intelligently so I'm waiting on the DVD so we can get into it - Firefly style.
Obviously we both have a hankering for movie-buff debate, it's just a month away.
One thing's for sure we both like this movie and the great potential for great storytelling in the future. Plus the fact that there's not much else, maybe Guardians, worth discussing.
Be patient grasshopper!
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD,
Ahem: I quote:
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
crickets. Ahem.
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
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Got it on Amazon................wait for it.................
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Edge of Tomorrow is today for sale on iTunes.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Be patient grasshopper!
$19.99 for HD, $14.99 for SD
Where iTunes go, there be pirates, Matey.
http://sceper.ws/2014/09/edge-of-tomorrow-2014-720p-web-dl-x264-ac3-zi
kas.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Amazon has two versions of the digital download. The longer version is plus bonus features!
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Got it on Amazon................
Runtime: 1 hour 54 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Edge-Tomorrow/dp/B00KW25MFY/
Runtime:2 hours 8 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Tomorrow-features/dp/B00N45UAZS/
Edge of Tomorrow will be available to rent on October 7, 2014.
FROM AMAZON REVIEW: What I like about the book over the movie is it took the time to tell the reader what Mimics are..
On a planet far, far away, a race of highly advance and intelligent beings on an over populated planet sent out nanobots to terraform a distant planet they felt could sustain their life. That planet being Earth.
Upon arriving Earth the ship broke into eight parts while the mothership remained in orbit. 4 parts fell into the sea, the rest on land. All communications from Earth were ignored. After the world's nations finished auguring among themselves it was decided that they blasted the mothership to space bits with missiles. Meanwhile In the depths of the oceans, the machines chanced upon echinoderms—starfish
The nanobots penetrated the rigid endoskeletons of the starfish and began to multiply in symbiosis with their hosts.
The resulting creatures fed on soil. They ate the world and spat out poison. Toxic to earth life but suitable to the beings that sent them. When the machines arrived on land, they concluded that in order to fulfill their objective of xenoforming the planet, they would have to remove the obstacles standing in their way.
That's where the movie starts.
The name change from "Edge of Tomorrow" to "Live Die Repeat" makes it sound like a made-for-TV movie, not a huge motion picture. Talk about a marketing department that has no idea what they're doing.
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Purchased the book as well, just began reading it. Thanks for the heads up about the bonus features in the movie.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Amazon has two versions of the digital download. The longer version is plus bonus features!
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Got it on Amazon................
Runtime: 1 hour 54 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Edge-Tomorrow/dp/B00KW25MFY/
Runtime:2 hours 8 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Tomorrow-features/dp/B00N45UAZS/
Edge of Tomorrow will be available to rent on October 7, 2014.
FROM AMAZON REVIEW: What I like about the book over the movie is it took the time to tell the reader what Mimics are..
On a planet far, far away, a race of highly advance and intelligent beings on an over populated planet sent out nanobots to terraform a distant planet they felt could sustain their life. That planet being Earth.
Upon arriving Earth the ship broke into eight parts while the mothership remained in orbit. 4 parts fell into the sea, the rest on land. All communications from Earth were ignored. After the world's nations finished auguring among themselves it was decided that they blasted the mothership to space bits with missiles. Meanwhile In the depths of the oceans, the machines chanced upon echinoderms—starfish
The nanobots penetrated the rigid endoskeletons of the starfish and began to multiply in symbiosis with their hosts.
The resulting creatures fed on soil. They ate the world and spat out poison. Toxic to earth life but suitable to the beings that sent them. When the machines arrived on land, they concluded that in order to fulfill their objective of xenoforming the planet, they would have to remove the obstacles standing in their way.
That's where the movie starts.
The name change from "Edge of Tomorrow" to "Live Die Repeat" makes it sound like a made-for-TV movie, not a huge motion picture. Talk about a marketing department that has no idea what they're doing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Amazon has two versions of the digital download. The longer version is plus bonus features!
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Got it on Amazon................
Edge of Tomorrow will be available to rent on October 7, 2014.
FROM AMAZON REVIEW: What I like about the book over the movie is it took the time to tell the reader what Mimics are..
On a planet far, far away, a race of highly advance and intelligent beings on an over populated planet sent out nanobots to terraform a distant planet they felt could sustain their life. That planet being Earth.
Upon arriving Earth the ship broke into eight parts while the mothership remained in orbit. 4 parts fell into the sea, the rest on land. All communications from Earth were ignored. After the world's nations finished auguring among themselves it was decided that they blasted the mothership to space bits with missiles. Meanwhile In the depths of the oceans, the machines chanced upon echinoderms—starfish
The nanobots penetrated the rigid endoskeletons of the starfish and began to multiply in symbiosis with their hosts.
The resulting creatures fed on soil. They ate the world and spat out poison. Toxic to earth life but suitable to the beings that sent them. When the machines arrived on land, they concluded that in order to fulfill their objective of xenoforming the planet, they would have to remove the obstacles standing in their way.
That's where the movie starts.
Thanks for the info. This sounds like the kind of backstory that I've heard Joss relishes. It helps the story make sense.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Amazon has two versions of the digital download. The longer version is plus bonus features!
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Got it on Amazon................
Runtime: 1 hour 54 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Edge-Tomorrow/dp/B00KW25MFY/
Runtime:2 hours 8 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Tomorrow-features/dp/B00N45UAZS/]
Only 14min of bonus content?
The VUDU bonus release has well over an hour's worth.
I wonder why Amazon cut so much.
Quote:
The name change from "Edge of Tomorrow" to "Live Die Repeat" makes it sound like a made-for-TV movie, not a huge motion picture. Talk about a marketing department that has no idea what they're doing.
I agree about that.
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Thanks Moose for the heads up about the Bonus features on Amazon and Vudu. I mistakenly bought the regular theatrical release digital copy from Amazon. Somehow I clicked on the wrong button.
I was thinking of waiting for the DVD release in Oct., but with the info you gave regarding Vudu, I think I'll get their version. I just gotta work some overtime to get it.
By the way, I read somewhere that the Live, Die, Repeat tagline above the title line was a marketing ploy to rebrand the movie. The studio was disappointed in it's domestic numbers. It grossed $100 Million here, and $258 Million overseas.
I'm not sure why it didn't do better here in the u.S. because each theater I saw it in people loved the film. I believe it will do better in DVD sales, although IMHO, I think it's a much better theater experience.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Amazon has two versions of the digital download. The longer version is plus bonus features!
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Got it on Amazon................
Runtime: 1 hour 54 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Edge-Tomorrow/dp/B00KW25MFY/
Runtime:2 hours 8 minutes www.amazon.com/Live-Die-Repeat-Tomorrow-features/dp/B00N45UAZS/]
Only 14min of bonus content?
The VUDU bonus release has well over an hour's worth.
I wonder why Amazon cut so much.Quote:
The name change from "Edge of Tomorrow" to "Live Die Repeat" makes it sound like a made-for-TV movie, not a huge motion picture. Talk about a marketing department that has no idea what they're doing.
I agree about that.
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Quote:www.vudu.com/movies/#!content/581255/Live-Die-Repeat-Edge-of-Tomorrow-
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Thanks Moose for the heads up about the Bonus features on Amazon and Vudu. I mistakenly bought the regular theatrical release digital copy from Amazon. Somehow I clicked on the wrong button.
I was thinking of waiting for the DVD release in Oct., but with the info you gave regarding Vudu, I think I'll get their version. I just gotta work some overtime to get it.
plus-bonus-features
VuDu explained.
http://blog.vudu.com/?p=10895
Quote:
Last year we launched VUDU Extras+ with the epic action-social commentary “District 9“. With all the bonuses you usually find on DVD or Blu-ray discs—like deleted scenes, featurettes and trailers—but better, VUDU Extras+ is a great feature for digital movie collectors. And now a new slate of films have been released, so it’s a great time to revisit VUDU Extras+.
Extras+ comes with eligible movies at no extra cost! And if you own the movie already, we add it to your VUDU account automatically.
No more fiddling with discs and slow menus. The Extras+ page makes it easy to watch behind-the-scenes footage, deleted scenes, featurettes and more!
Enhanced Search
Blink-and-miss it cameo? A powerful search feature lets you find specific scenes, lines of dialogue, actors or even trivia!
Your favorite scenes sliced up and ready to share on Facebook and Twitter.
Check out all the great movies that come with Extras+!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Keep noticing that on my computer, this title is abbreviated as "Edge of Tom" which likely suits other critics here.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
Git on that.
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I did sidestep one thing before, but can point out that perhaps the Omega had implanted in Rita the idea, the seed of suggestion, that if she were to find another like her, after Omega bled her out, then she should reset the next person as often as possible, so the Omega could localize the next person easier, to set the trap. This way, she wasn't just being masochistic in shooting Cage all the time, it was her responding unwittingly to programming put in her head.
I just realized a couple other things the last few days.
One is, Farrell was an even bigger retard (or more despicably evil, criminally corrupted) than previously mentioned. Cage was on a worldwide broadcast Television interview!!! If Farrell did believe that wad of lies he kept in his pocket - away from any other reasonable person who knew them to be lie - then he must have believed that the UDF found some Private to interview with the worldwide media, explaining and discussing Military tactics, weapons systems, exoskeletons, and combat scenarios competently, and then dressed him up as a Field Grade Commissioned Officer (Major) for the interview. Clearly, Ferrell couldn't get promoted in the US Army with that level of retardation, so he had to jump over to the moronic bumf*ck UDF to get a promotion.
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Did you not listen to Paxton?
“You’re a coward and a liar putting your life above theirs. The good news is there’s hope for you, private. Hope in the form of glorious combat. Battle is the great redeemer. The fire and crucible in which the only true heroes are forged. The one place where all men truly share the same rank, regardless of what kind of parasitic scum they were going in. … I envy you, Cage. Tomorrow morning you will be baptized — born again.”
That line is not accident, JSF. It is the theme of the movie! Good lord, open your eyes!
Here you seem to fail to comprehend the concept of levels of portrayals in films.
Have you seen Inception? If so, did you believe anything that Cobb or Arthur told Fischer? It was pretty believable stuff, or they wouldn't have tried it. Those lines were not accidents - but you, the audience, were not supposed to be snookered, so gullible as to be taken in like Fischer - the sensible viewer was supposed to have the full picture, and thus not be so gullible.
Have you seen Galaxy Quest? Did you believe everything that the actors of the cancelled series told the extra-terrestrials? Or what they said in their TV show episodes? Just because they gave cool speeches does not mean that we, a supposedly intelligent audience, should accept as gospel, but should understand were just lines used to move and develop the story. Perhaps you thought they were historical records, just like everything in Edge of Tomorrow.
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My Blu-Ray/DVD combo set should be here tomorrow, and hopefully the mail is earlier than usual.
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I gotta comment:
First, Cage was not sent to lead anyone, he was sent by the general to "sell" the attack scheduled for the next day.
As far as Sgt. Farrell was concerned, Cage was just another grunt. Yes, he was lied to by the general, who had his own motives, but Farrell was regular army, a stickler for rigid conformity to rules and regs. (As both his speech and subsequent behavior shows). Farrell assumed, from the lie, that Cage went through basic training and was commenting on his character based on that lie.
Truth be told, Farrell's instincts were right on the money, the lie notwithstanding, Cage was a coward, afraid to see his own blood. He was, as he put it, "parasitic scum" and was about to be "baptized." Farrell couldn't care less who Cage was. To him, he was just another grunt, a deserter. Rita, as she discovered who he was, seized the opportunity to use Cage as a weapon to "Win the War." It was Rita who helped to "baptize" Cage and forged his destiny as a warrior, a death machine. It was Rita who inspired Cage. Each time he was reset, he learned more about himself, about J Squad, but ultimately about Rita which gave him purpose.
Farrell's statement was point blank on the money, regardless of what lies he was told about Cage. That's what he believed in, that was a part of him, as much as his mustache and sergeant stripes.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Tell you what else JSF: instead of getting into some silly "I'm right, no I'm right" here, let's wait until the DVD with all the extras comes out. Let's watch the commentary and such, and then let's see what the writers, directors, and actors have to say about the arc of TC's character.
What do you say?
In case you are interested, I'll try to explain some things.
Also, if using films and screenwriters as accurate comprehenders of military such as the ludicrous Few Good Men as our standard, then don't read further and stay in the fantasy world.
Do you think that a doctor, an MD, should be placed in command of a combat battalion? Even if he is a Colonel? Even if he has never attended War College or Potential Command Course? If he were, his battalion would be massacred at the first exchange of fire. He is not trained for the combat, he has been trained for the medical application of his talents and knowledge. Do you think military personnel respect him less because he is not "earned" rank, as you imply? The combat injured would much rather have a War College graduate without a smidgen of medical training cut him open and repair his insides? A person would have to be insane to suggest either.
MDs are not placed in command of combat units, infantry units, tanks, air or sea squadrons unless they are separately trained for those tasks and commands. That would be disasterous for all concerned, and the military would fail along with the government behind it.
JDs are not placed in command of combat units for the same reason, yet doctors and JAG officers raise in rank. Those are earned rank, regardless of what you wish to claim.
Magor Cage was not trained in combat tactics, techniques, strategy, just like JAGs and Medical Officers are not, unless they specifically pursue those courses. He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be, at least until he has had some training and experience at command, yet he has earned his rank.
The reason the Sgt said all that was because he had been given a stack of lies, a frame-up of a deserter profile, which had no basis in fact. He was lied to about the training and capabilities Cage had, although he had not had any.
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
Oh, you explained your fantasy quite well, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. Cage was never in command of any kind of combat unit.
How do you make this stuff up? Have you actually seen the movie?
Anyhow, I haven't gotten the DVD yet. Hope to make it to the store tonight.
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What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
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Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
Oh, you explained your fantasy quite well, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. Cage was never in command of any kind of combat unit.
How do you make this stuff up? Have you actually seen the movie?
Anyhow, I haven't gotten the DVD yet. Hope to make it to the store tonight.
Here you posit a quote from me.
This quote is from one post I made on 8 July.
Film came out around 7 June.
It was no longer showing by 8 July, and I had not seen it again in about 3 weeks.
Edge of Tomorrow was not available at my local budget theater again until around 4 August.
Yes, as I had already stated, some of my recollections were faded and/or fuzzy - particularly the parts which made so much sense to me that I did not fathom how delusional and confused you would be about the subject matter and portrayal on screen. The parts I had focused on were the parts which I had not fully caught the first time or 2 - not the reasonable parts which so confused you into surreality.
After seeing again, I realized that Brigham had assigned Cage to COMMAND the filming unit amidst COMBAT OPERATIONS and while embedded among COMBAT UNITS performing Amphibious Operations on the beach, but not to command the combat units. I did not choose to retroactively edit my prior posts, because the is the path of the smarmy weaselly rats of libtardism, not those who stand by what they had said.
Is that all? You shoot your wad now?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know.............ya miss me, but I would really like to discuss the film intelligently so I'm waiting on the DVD so we can get into it - Firefly style.
Obviously we both have a hankering for movie-buff debate, it's just a month away.
One thing's for sure we both like this movie and the great potential for great storytelling in the future. Plus the fact that there's not much else, maybe Guardians, worth discussing.
Be patient grasshopper!
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
So have you given up?
Or just too embarrassed by what you've realized?
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
Oh, you explained your fantasy quite well, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. Cage was never in command of any kind of combat unit.
How do you make this stuff up? Have you actually seen the movie?
Anyhow, I haven't gotten the DVD yet. Hope to make it to the store tonight.
Here you posit a quote from me.
This quote is from one post I made on 8 July.
Film came out around 7 June.
It was no longer showing by 8 July, and I had not seen it again in about 3 weeks.
Edge of Tomorrow was not available at my local budget theater again until around 4 August.
Yes, as I had already stated, some of my recollections were faded and/or fuzzy - particularly the parts which made so much sense to me that I did not fathom how delusional and confused you would be about the subject matter and portrayal on screen. The parts I had focused on were the parts which I had not fully caught the first time or 2 - not the reasonable parts which so confused you into surreality.
After seeing again, I realized that Brigham had assigned Cage to COMMAND the filming unit amidst COMBAT OPERATIONS and while embedded among COMBAT UNITS performing Amphibious Operations on the beach, but not to command the combat units. I did not choose to retroactively edit my prior posts, because the is the path of the smarmy weaselly rats of libtardism, not those who stand by what they had said.
Is that all? You shoot your wad now?
Its amazing how you can take your being completely wrong - and think it speaks poorly of someone else.
Psycho.
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”? Isaac Asimov
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
Oh, you explained your fantasy quite well, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie. Cage was never in command of any kind of combat unit.
How do you make this stuff up? Have you actually seen the movie?
Anyhow, I haven't gotten the DVD yet. Hope to make it to the store tonight.
Here you posit a quote from me.
This quote is from one post I made on 8 July.
Film came out around 7 June.
It was no longer showing by 8 July, and I had not seen it again in about 3 weeks.
Edge of Tomorrow was not available at my local budget theater again until around 4 August.
Yes, as I had already stated, some of my recollections were faded and/or fuzzy - particularly the parts which made so much sense to me that I did not fathom how delusional and confused you would be about the subject matter and portrayal on screen. The parts I had focused on were the parts which I had not fully caught the first time or 2 - not the reasonable parts which so confused you into surreality.
After seeing again, I realized that Brigham had assigned Cage to COMMAND the filming unit amidst COMBAT OPERATIONS and while embedded among COMBAT UNITS performing Amphibious Operations on the beach, but not to command the combat units. I did not choose to retroactively edit my prior posts, because the is the path of the smarmy weaselly rats of libtardism, not those who stand by what they had said.
Is that all? You shoot your wad now?
I should have mentioned, You didn't bother bringing up all your wacky ideas until July 7 in this thread, so I was trying to recall from weeks before when I saw the film.
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Said the JSF-rap:
Quote:
...A bunch of fictional BS...
Any reasonable person should be able to understand this.
If I was not clear, please point out what I didn't explain.
After it was pointed out how fictional his BS was, and I asked this moron if he had actually seen the movie, he admitted that...
Quote:
some of my recollections were faded and/or fuzzy
Meaning WRONG. Way out of left field wrong. Completely fabricated.
JSRapF, you made shit up, claimed it should be obvious to any "reasonable" person... meaning that your idea of reason is to take fuzzy fiction as absolute truth.
Jesus. What a fucking moron you are JRapSF! You are such a douche, it's hilarious!
BTW, the DVD has no commentary, to my disappointment. But it turns out to not be necessary. I don't need to prove you wrong. You've done that yourself.
Cheers, troll.
*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know.............ya miss me, but I would really like to discuss the film intelligently so I'm waiting on the DVD so we can get into it - Firefly style.
Obviously we both have a hankering for movie-buff debate, it's just a month away.
One thing's for sure we both like this movie and the great potential for great storytelling in the future. Plus the fact that there's not much else, maybe Guardians, worth discussing.
Be patient grasshopper!
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
So have you given up?
Or just too embarrassed by what you've realized?
???
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No, just got other things on my plate right now, besides, in movies, as an art medium, there is no wrong or right - just different shades of color. Of course, it depends from which side of the rainbow you're looking from.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yeah, I know.............ya miss me, but I would really like to discuss the film intelligently so I'm waiting on the DVD so we can get into it - Firefly style.
Obviously we both have a hankering for movie-buff debate, it's just a month away.
One thing's for sure we both like this movie and the great potential for great storytelling in the future. Plus the fact that there's not much else, maybe Guardians, worth discussing.
Be patient grasshopper!
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Hey JSF, it'll be a while before I get to answer your post, at least until I get the DVD, but I will attempt to respond in some form in the next few days.
One thing is certain, EoT is a keeper and my new "Matrix."
SGG
this thread feels so lonely
still lonely.
But DVD release date is set for October 7th.
So have you given up?
Or just too embarrassed by what you've realized?
???
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Ummm....errr...I laughed when Cruise got hit by the truck.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Ummm....errr...I laughed when Cruise got hit by the truck.
Good sound effects.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just got other things on my plate right now, besides, in movies, as an art medium, there is no wrong or right - just different shades of color. Of course, it depends from which side of the rainbow you're looking from.
SGG
That sounds like no more discussion.
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No, just means I haven't had time. Tell you what, I'm going to re-watch it and then comment this weekend. I need to refresh my memory.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just got other things on my plate right now, besides, in movies, as an art medium, there is no wrong or right - just different shades of color. Of course, it depends from which side of the rainbow you're looking from.
SGG
That sounds like no more discussion.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just means I haven't had time. Tell you what, I'm going to re-watch it and then comment this weekend. I need to refresh my memory.
SGG
OK.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just means I haven't had time. Tell you what, I'm going to re-watch it and then comment this weekend. I need to refresh my memory.
SGG
OK.
When does your weekend end?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just means I haven't had time. Tell you what, I'm going to re-watch it and then comment this weekend. I need to refresh my memory.
SGG
You meant last weekend?
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Okay:
19:37 - Cage lands on the beach for the first time as a coward, an impostor
20:45 - Rita's ship crash lands
21:15 - Cage loses his helmet
21:21 - Cage sees Rita in action for the first time
21:51 - They look at each other
21:58 - Rita is shot right in front of cage
22:01 - Rita lands dead by Cage's side
22:05 - Cage begins to run away in fear for his life
22:17 - Sgt. Farrell stops Cage from running away and resets his destiny
(the first time Farrell sets his destiny is when he tells Cage he will
be baptised in glorious battle/fiery crucible)
22:21 - Sgt. Farrell tells him he's going to miss his moment (Farrell stops him
from being selfish and a coward, to lead him to his destiny) Farrell is the
key.
22:23 - Griff gives us the jist of the story: "There not supposed to know we're
coming"
Farrell does his best to lead J Squad and all ignore Cage regarding his safety. Cage wanders about completely lost in battle, until.......
23:10 - A mimick pops out of the ground and begins to slaughter J Squad, but they seemingly ignore Cage in the skirmish, until.......
24:00 - Cage kills a mimick. He was not part of the battles before, so he changes the future by affecting the beach landing - Rita is killed, but Cage surprises them instead.................
24:41 - He kills the Alpha and gains the Reset capability; totally by accident
Sgt. Farrell was right, he was baptised. Born Again! He's still a coward, but he begins his journey toward becoming a hero and (I agree with your assessment) the redemption of J Squad in becoming a fighting unit.
It is still my contention that Cage falls in love with Rita upon seeing her on the side of the bus at FOB. The battle scene only presented him with his destiny which Farrell prophesized. Cage now controls the reset.
The next key moment is when Farrell introduces Cage to J Squad and reveals the playing cards................
27:02 - Farrell asks Nance why he hates gambling. "It entertains the notion that our fate is in the hands others than our own."
Is slipped by me several times, but I caught it once and it seemed to remind me of Terminator 2 regarding Fate. Through discipline we are masters of our Fate. Farrell tells Cage he'll come around. He is the harbinger of future actions, as well as the Narrator, the Point of view within the film. He's telling Cage, and us, that he will be the hero.
33:35 - Cage saves Rita in battle and he tells her that she needs to lead them to get off the beach.
Rita tells Cage to come find her. So now comes the ground rules, they explain about the mimicks and what's happening to Cage.
54:33 - Tavern (here's the section that I mention about the Bridge Scene)
Cage is drinking because he's frustrated that they haven't made progress in probably hundreds of attempts to defeat the mimicks.
55:29 - The chap in the pub calls Cage a coward, his former self, and he grimaces because he's no longer a coward. The lights flicker. He runs out of the pub and over to the bridge (This is the scene to which I refer)
55:58 - Cage sees the mimicks in the water by the bridge.
56:05 - The mimicks kill Cage on the bridge.
56:06 - Rita walks into the Training Facility and finds Cage training on his own
(this is the sequence of scenes that I was talking about, when Cage
rededicates himself to training)
56:45 - Carter finds the Omega.
57:11 - Rita tells Cage "You can do this"
After she tells him her middle name he decides to go it alone.
1:10:40 - Even the D.I. that yells at him "on your feet maggot" sees a difference in him
1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.
1:12:00 - He becomes as determined as Rita, tells Griff to get him more ammo.
After that it becomes an army mission for him and Rita
SGG
Quote:
Originally poste
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Quote:Not accidental. Cage had to know what a Claymore mine is, lunge for it, aim and trigger it. Accidental would be the Alpha triggering the Claymore when it bites off Cage's head.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
24:41 - He kills the Alpha and gains the Reset capability; totally by accident
The movie opened on the 70th anniversary of D-Day. But crash-landing helicopters on the beach at Normandy in order to repeat D-Day was a stupid strategy. Boats stop at the shore; helicopters need not stop. The nice beach at Normandy was the only reason to send boats there, but if you're not in a boat Normandy is not where an Army crosses into France. Pick a better spot, General Brigham! Look at a goddamn map for Christ's sake!
Crossing into France at Normandy must have been the idea of General Brigham (Brendan Gleeson), expecting a repeat of General Eisenhower's historic victory. It's just another reason to hate General Brigham.
The only thing the General did that wasn't reprehensible was to NOT claim for himself personal credit for Paris. He probably feared the media would eventually ask questions about the easy victory and find out he is a big, fat, fast-talking know-nothing. That would be bad for Brigham's future in politics, a future that Cage predicted.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Not accidental. Cage had to know what a Claymore mine is, lunge for it, aim and trigger it. Accidental would be the Alpha triggering the Claymore when it bites off Cage's head.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
24:41 - He kills the Alpha and gains the Reset capability; totally by accident
Killing the Alpha, or defending himself from the Alpha, was intentional. Getting the reset capability was accidental - nobody in J-squad even knew what an Alpha was, let alone they were in the presence of one. Millions of others had died in the face of the enemy, and they knew of none that had obtained this reset ability, so it was an accident which Cage fell into.
Quote:
The movie opened on the 70th anniversary of D-Day. But crash-landing helicopters on the beach at Normandy in order to repeat D-Day was a stupid strategy. Boats stop at the shore; helicopters need not stop. The nice beach at Normandy was the only reason to send boats there, but if you're not in a boat Normandy is not where an Army crosses into France. Pick a better spot, General Brigham! Look at a goddamn map for Christ's sake!
Perhaps you are under the illusion that Brigham was making any effort to win the war, when in fact he was making every effort to lose the war, help the Omega win.
Quote:
Crossing into France at Normandy must have been the idea of General Brigham (Brendan Gleeson), expecting a repeat of General Eisenhower's historic victory. It's just another reason to hate General Brigham.
The pertinent question is: was he just a moron, or was he a traitor?
Quote:
The only thing the General did that wasn't reprehensible was to NOT claim for himself personal credit for Paris. He probably feared the media would eventually ask questions about the easy victory and find out he is a big, fat, fast-talking know-nothing. That would be bad for Brigham's future in politics, a future that Cage predicted.
He wasn't a know-nothing regarding this. He feared that it would be found out that he made every attempt to prevent this victory from happening. After Cage/Rita got the device, he had them apprehended, and got Cage to bleed out, almost surely ending the entire sequence of events - only J-squad agreeing to go on the suicide mission stopped Brigham from successfully giving victory to the Omega. Even allowing Cage to leave the office with the device only occurred after Cage repeatedly told Rita "don't shoot him, yet" which he may have taken as a threat to his life.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:
1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.
SGG
I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:
19:37 - Cage lands on the beach for the first time as a
defenseless, untrained innocent being led to slaughter. Railroaded to a death sentence.
Quote:
coward, an impostor
20:45 - Rita's ship crash lands
21:15 - Cage loses his helmet
21:21 - Cage sees Rita in action for the first time
21:51 - They look at each other
21:58 - Rita is shot right in front of cage
22:01 - Rita lands dead by Cage's side
22:05 - Cage begins to run away in fear for his life
What is he supposed to do? Look at the mimic sternly until they die?
Quote:
22:17 - Sgt. Farrell stops Cage from
escaping the certain execution that Farrell has arranged for him.
Quote:
running away and resets his destiny
(the first time Farrell sets his destiny is when he tells Cage he will
be baptised in glorious battle/fiery crucible)
22:21 - Sgt. Farrell tells him he's going to miss his moment (Farrell stops him
from being
summarily executed on the battlefield.
Quote:
selfish and a coward, to lead him to his destiny) Farrell is the
key.
22:23 - Griff gives us the jist of the story: "There not supposed to know we're
coming"
Farrell does his best to lead J Squad and all ignore Cage regarding his safety. Cage wanders about completely lost in battle, until.......
23:10 - A mimick pops out of the ground and begins to slaughter J Squad, but they seemingly ignore Cage in the skirmish, until.......
Cage is not a threat. Cage is weaponless. Many Rules Of Engagement declare that weapons indicate a target. Although the mimic likely does not consider this, it logically behooves them to target active enemy with weapons as a priority.
J-squad ignores Cage telling them there is a mimic in their midst - serves them right, karma is a biatch.
Cage enables his weapon, safety off. Shoots, gaining attention of the mimic.
Quote:
24:00 - Cage kills a mimick. He was not part of the battles before, so he changes the future by affecting the beach landing - Rita is killed, but Cage surprises them instead.................
Then the Alpha arrives to find out what is going on, Cage is out of ammo for his weapon. Cage grabs Claymore from squadmember. This is another weapon, maybe Alpha does not recognize it as such.
Quote:
24:41 - He kills the Alpha and gains the Reset capability; totally by accident
Sgt. Farrell was right, he was baptised. Born Again! He's still a coward, but he begins his journey toward becoming a hero and (I agree with your assessment) the redemption of J Squad in becoming a fighting unit.
It is still my contention that Cage falls in love with Rita upon seeing her on the side of the bus at FOB. The battle scene only presented him with his destiny which Farrell prophesized. Cage now controls the reset.
The next key moment is when Farrell introduces Cage to J Squad and reveals the playing cards................
Did not this scene occur in the original sequence? Night before getting reset? You are referring only to the replay of the original scene, right?
Quote:
27:02 - Farrell asks Nance why he hates gambling. "It entertains the notion that our fate is in the hands others than our own."
Is slipped by me several times, but I caught it once and it seemed to remind me of Terminator 2 regarding Fate. Through discipline we are masters of our Fate. Farrell tells Cage he'll come around. He is the harbinger of future actions, as well as the Narrator, the Point of view within the film. He's telling Cage, and us, that he will be the hero.
33:35 - Cage saves Rita in battle and he tells her that she needs to lead them to get off the beach.
Rita tells Cage to come find her. So now comes the ground rules, they explain about the mimicks and what's happening to Cage.
Tavern scene comes immediately after Rita tells Cage "training is over, you must find a way off t
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Quote:I go with Moron. Traitor is too difficult for the General.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The pertinent question is: was he just a moron, or was he a traitor? . . . only J-squad agreeing to go on the suicide mission stopped Brigham from successfully giving victory to the Omega.
I'd say it's impossible for the General to make a traitor's deal with the Omega. How would the General communicate? In what language? And why would cynical General trust a deal with a complete stranger from outer space? Besides, the General doesn't need a deal because he's sure he will win, he's so full of it. Once he wins, the world is his, his desires will be fulfilled. What use to General Brigham is the Omega after it is dead?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Exactly the point I'm making, so you do get it. He cannot save her, so he goes it alone to complete his mission, precisely because his love for her keeps him from completing the mission and defeating the Omega.
Cage doesn't want to see her die, as has happened hundreds of times, he knows she would want to go for broke if she comes along, but she dies anyway.
Geez, do I have to spell everything out. It is obvious what I meant because you asked the very questions, and made the statements that proves my take within the film's context.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:
1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.
SGG
I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?
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Please pay attention to the writing here:
He kills the Alpha (connotes that he actively and knowingly killed the Alpha by triggering the Claymore, which is obvious in the film's context when they show Cage purposefully look at the mine, reads the label, and carefully grabs it - trying to do so without alerting the attention of the Big Alien, which we come to know as the Alpha - I'm assuming that Cage knows enough about chain of command when he notices that the mimicks are "reporting" to the Big Blue Alien, hence a possible commander.
Then - gains the Reset capability; totally by accident - this connotes that, in the aftermath, he resets to the moment when he first wakes up at FOB. That's what I was referring to as accidental.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Not accidental. Cage had to know what a Claymore mine is, lunge for it, aim and trigger it. Accidental would be the Alpha triggering the Claymore when it bites off Cage's head.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
24:41 - He kills the Alpha and gains the Reset capability; totally by accident
The movie opened on the 70th anniversary of D-Day. But crash-landing helicopters on the beach at Normandy in order to repeat D-Day was a stupid strategy. Boats stop at the shore; helicopters need not stop. The nice beach at Normandy was the only reason to send boats there, but if you're not in a boat Normandy is not where an Army crosses into France. Pick a better spot, General Brigham! Look at a goddamn map for Christ's sake!
Crossing into France at Normandy must have been the idea of General Brigham (Brendan Gleeson), expecting a repeat of General Eisenhower's historic victory. It's just another reason to hate General Brigham.
The only thing the General did that wasn't reprehensible was to NOT claim for himself personal credit for Paris. He probably feared the media would eventually ask questions about the easy victory and find out he is a big, fat, fast-talking know-nothing. That would be bad for Brigham's future in politics, a future that Cage predicted.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I laughed at Farrell's reaction............classic comic take (Paxton was so damn good in his role)
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Ummm....errr...I laughed when Cruise got hit by the truck.
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01:39 - Cage comes on TV News and wrongly states that "with a limited battle training" they, the UDF, have created a super soldier. Wrong because, as we find out, it takes hundreds of times for him to perfect the use of the Body Armor. Also Rita's hundreds of times (it is presumed) of combat in the field before the mimicks allow her to win at Verdun (as we come to find out later in the film).
The reporting in the film's outset from 1:39 to 2:38 is describing how Rita Vitarski, on her first day, killed hundreds of mimicks. At this point, we know nothing of the why and how of combat with the mimicks, and of Rita's abilities.
We find out much later in the film how wrong those statements are.
Coward - How do I know he's a coward? Read on and learn.
5:12 - After the General tells him he's going to the front with the first wave, Cage tells him that "I do this to avoid doing that" meaning he does Media relations to avoid combat. ROTC in college, lost his advertising firm, "here I am" - not exactly a ringing endorsement of his bravery and willingness to fight for his country.
5:31 - "I'm not a soldier, really!"
5:43 - "Can't stand the sight of blood. Not so much as a paper cut." Then he nervously laughs. The general is not amused.
6:18 - The general does offer him the opportunity to go in with his present rank, but under his command.
6:48 - Cage begins to try and back out of the assignment by attempting to blackmail the general.
As an aside, both the general and Cage have ulterior motives. The general wants to be thought of in a positive light, hence enlisting the skills of Cage as an advertising/media coordinator; and Cage just wants to stay alive by "doing what he does" best, staying out of harm's way. Both he and the general are dicks, but the general has the rank to make things happen.
8:16 - As a result of his futile attempt to blackmail the general, he awakens at Heathrow processing.
Everything that he says and does between 5:10 - 8:16 spells Coward with a capital C, to the point that he risks his rank to stay out of the front lines, as part of a selfish assigned task (further addressed by Farrell later in the film, whereby he states that one man is not more important than the many). Cage is not particularly bright or heroic.
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
No, just means I haven't had time. Tell you what, I'm going to re-watch it and then comment this weekend. I need to refresh my memory.
SGG
You meant last weekend?
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I've come to another conclusion regarding Sgt. Farrell:
He is the narrator of the film, but brilliantly so. The script gives us his take on what is about to happen, and guides both Cage and J-Squad. He makes J-Squad responsible for Cage (a tactic used in the military to forge a union among the soldiers and create a fighting team). It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I gotta comment:
First, Cage was not sent to lead anyone, he was sent by the general to "sell" the attack scheduled for the next day.
As far as Sgt. Farrell was concerned, Cage was just another grunt. Yes, he was lied to by the general, who had his own motives, but Farrell was regular army, a stickler for rigid conformity to rules and regs. (As both his speech and subsequent behavior shows). Farrell assumed, from the lie, that Cage went through basic training and was commenting on his character based on that lie.
Truth be told, Farrell's instincts were right on the money, the lie notwithstanding, Cage was a coward, afraid to see his own blood. He was, as he put it, "parasitic scum" and was about to be "baptized." Farrell couldn't care less who Cage was. To him, he was just another grunt, a deserter. Rita, as she discovered who he was, seized the opportunity to use Cage as a weapon to "Win the War." It was Rita who helped to "baptize" Cage and forged his destiny as a warrior, a death machine. It was Rita who inspired Cage. Each time he was reset, he learned more about himself, about J Squad, but ultimately about Rita which gave him purpose.
Farrell's statement was point blank on the money, regardless of what lies he was told about Cage. That's what he believed in, that was a part of him, as much as his mustache and sergeant stripes.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Tell you what else JSF: instead of getting into some silly "I'm right, no I'm right" here, let's wait until the DVD with all the extras comes out. Let's watch the commentary and such, and then let's see what the writers, directors, and actors have to say about the arc of TC's character.
What do you say?
In case you are interested, I'll try to explain some things.
Also, if using films and screenwriters as accurate comprehenders of military such as the ludicrous Few Good Men as our standard, then don't read further and stay in the fantasy world.
Do you think that a doctor, an MD, should be placed in command of a combat battalion? Even if he is a Colonel? Even if he has never attended War College or Potential Command Course? If he were, his battalion would be massacred at the first exchange of fire. He is not trained for the combat, he has been trained for the medical application of his talents and knowledge. Do you think military personnel respect him less because he is not "earned" rank, as you imply? The combat injured would much rather have a War College graduate without a smidgen of medical training cut him open and repair his insides? A person would have to be insane to suggest either.
MDs are not placed in command of combat units, infantry units, tanks, air or sea squadrons unless they are separately trained for those tasks and commands. That would be disasterous for all concerned, and the military would fail along with the government behind it.
JDs are not placed in command of combat units for the same reason, yet doctors and JAG officers raise in rank. Those are earned rank, regardless of what you wish to claim.
Magor Cage was not trained in combat tactics, techniques, strategy, just like JAGs and Medical Officers are not, unless they specifically pursue those courses. He has no business being in command of any size or level of combat unit, as the criminally despicable General assigned him to be, at
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly the point I'm making, so you do get it. He cannot save her, so he goes it alone to complete his mission, precisely because his love for her keeps him from completing the mission and defeating the Omega.
Cage doesn't want to see her die, as has happened hundreds of times, he knows she would want to go for broke if she comes along, but she dies anyway.
Geez, do I have to spell everything out. It is obvious what I meant because you asked the very questions, and made the statements that proves my take within the film's context.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:
1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.
SGG
I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've come to another conclusion regarding Sgt. Farrell:
He is the narrator of the film, but brilliantly so. The script gives us his take on what is about to happen, and guides both Cage and J-Squad. He makes J-Squad responsible for Cage (a tactic used in the military to forge a union among the soldiers
Incorrect. Lying to J-squad and falsely accusing Cage of fictional crimes does not endear soldiers to forge a union. His abdication of his own responsibility was the reason for deflecting his responsibility to J-squad,
Quote:
and create a fighting team).
Incorrect. Providing a few training tasks such as how to use an exoskeleton or unsafe the weapon could have gone much farther towards a fighting team - and this lack of any concern towards unit cohesion shows just how lazy, moronic, stupid, retarded Farrell was and how little he cared about whether the men under him in J-squad could be combat effective.
Quote:
It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.
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Quote:Master Sergeant Farell didn't last a minute in combat. The Mimics weren't impressed by his swagger. Apparently he wasn't as important as he thought he was in the bigger scheme of things.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Well, that is so until the end of the movie when Cage loses his ability to reset the day and he goes to J-Squad to recruit them for the mission. They must act as a unit, along with Rita because now it's for keeps.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega. The new battle plan is to go before the invasion in the morning, of course, after he sees the real hideout of the Omega.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Exactly the point I'm making, so you do get it. He cannot save her, so he goes it alone to complete his mission, precisely because his love for her keeps him from completing the mission and defeating the Omega.
Cage doesn't want to see her die, as has happened hundreds of times, he knows she would want to go for broke if she comes along, but she dies anyway.
Geez, do I have to spell everything out. It is obvious what I meant because you asked the very questions, and made the statements that proves my take within the film's context.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Okay:
1:11:11 - Cage decides to go after the Omega alone when he goes to see Rita. He knows that if she goes along w=she will not stop.
SGG
I don't get this. Did you complete your thought? What do you mean? She will stop when she gets killed. She will get killed in every scenario. When he goes alone, this means she will die on the beach, long before he gets to the helicopter.
What are you talking about here?
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
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Sgt. Farrell is not a narrator in the normal sense where there is a voice-over, he foretells the story of Cage, from "parasitic scum" to soldier forged in glorious combat.
This technique is subtle but useful, especially within sci-fi movies. The Matrix - when the young underground kids come to his door to pay for some files he hacked for them, they say "You're my personal savior" and he sees the White Rabbit on the girl's shoulder. Neo also says that he doesn't exist, a play on words when he warns them if they're caught with the info. In Terminator 2, the T1000 says "come with me, if you want to live."
At first, I thought Farrell was just spewing old school gung-ho army bullshit, but as I watched a 2nd and 3rd time, I began to understand that he was foretelling Cage's destiny - in other words the main theme of the story. A romanticized vision of the soldier/hero who sacrifices all to win the battle and the war. The fiery crucible is combat where Cage learns to become a soldier all to save Rita, but also to save J-Squad along the way.
At the film's beginning he is parasitic scum trying to blackmail the general, but he is baptized in battle and by the Alpha and therein begins his journey. Even on D-Day when he tries to run away, Farrell tells him "you're gonna miss your moment" and soon after he kills the Alpha. It is a battle for survival for Cage, but when he meets Rita, everything changes. From there on, he is being remade into the soldier he was destined to be. After killing the Alpha, he changes the dynamic of the Mimicks slaughter, and so begins his journey to ultimate victory. It is Rita, Cage and J-Squad who affect the landscape. But only after Cage experiences and cares for someone other than himself.
By the way, Farrell couldn't give less of a shit about Cage, who, as far as he's concerned, is a deserter and a coward. Not so much because he's ignorant, but because he's regular Army and set in his ways. Old school Army follows orders, he believes in discipline, and, although he knows Cage is an officer (after the way he sizes up his uniform). He even calls him "sir." Farrell is going to put him through his paces regardless if he's a soldier or an officer.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I've come to another conclusion regarding Sgt. Farrell:
He is the narrator of the film, but brilliantly so. The script gives us his take on what is about to happen, and guides both Cage and J-Squad. He makes J-Squad responsible for Cage (a tactic used in the military to forge a union among the soldiers
Incorrect. Lying to J-squad and falsely accusing Cage of fictional crimes does not endear soldiers to forge a union. His abdication of his own responsibility was the reason for deflecting his responsibility to J-squad,Quote:
and create a fighting team).
Incorrect. Providing a few training take such as how to use an exoskeleton or unsafe the weapon could have gone much farther towards a fighting team - and this lack of any concern towards unit cohesion shows just how lazy, moronic, stupid, retarded Farrell was and how little he cared about whether the men under him in J-squad could be combat effective.Quote:
It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.
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What I'm talking about is within the film. What in the film proves your theory that Cage wasn't a coward, at the very beginning of the film, when he first enters the general's office.
I quoted the script and his initial reaction to the general's request. I'm not talking about outside of the film.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Well, that is so until the end of the movie when Cage loses his ability to reset the day and he goes to J-Squad to recruit them for the mission. They must act as a unit, along with Rita because now it's for keeps.
They could be a unit because they cut the retard Farrell out of the loop. If Farrell was allowed to be informed, he would have lost the human race for us. Cage cemented the unit, not Farrell.
Quote:
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega. The new battle plan is to go before the invasion in the morning, of course, after he sees the real hideout of the Omega.
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Master Sergeant Farell didn't last a minute in combat. The Mimics weren't impressed by his swagger. Apparently he wasn't as important as he thought he was in the bigger scheme of things.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.
Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Sgt. Farrell is not a narrator in the normal sense where there is a voice-over, he foretells the story of Cage, from "parasitic scum" to soldier forged in glorious combat.
At first, I thought Farrell was just spewing old school gung-ho army bullshit, but as I watched a 2nd and 3rd time, I began to understand that he was foretelling Cage's destiny - in other words the main theme of the story. A romanticized vision of the soldier/hero who sacrifices all to win the battle and the war. The fiery crucible is combat where Cage learns to become a soldier all to save Rita, but also to save J-Squad along the way.
At the film's beginning he is parasitic scum trying to blackmail the general, but he is baptized in battle and by the Alpha and therein begins his journey. Even on D-Day when he tries to run away, Farrell tells him "you're gonna miss your moment" and soon after he kills the Alpha. It is a battle for survival for Cage, but when he meets Rita, everything changes. From there on, he is being remade into the soldier he was destined to be. After killing the Alpha, he changes the dynamic of the Mimicks slaughter, and so begins his journey to ultimate victory. It is Rita, Cage and J-Squad who affect the landscape. But only after Cage experiences and cares for someone other than himself.
Wrong. Only after getting the reset ability. That is the sole determining factor.
Quote:
By the way, Farrell couldn't give less of a shit about Cage, who, as far as he's concerned, is a deserter and a coward. Not so much because he's ignorant, but because he's regular Army and set in his ways. Old school Army follows orders, he believes in discipline, and, although he knows Cage is an officer (after the way he sizes up his uniform). He even calls him "sir." Farrell is going to put him through his paces regardless if he's a soldier or an officer.
That is such a stinking pile of manure that I cannot fathom how to introduce reality to the unwashed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
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Quote:I have no problem with what you wrote.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?
I admire the movie. The screenplay used a small portion of the novel, throwing away what appeals only to the Japanese: pseudo-scientific explanations, far too much detail about mechanized armor Jackets (what in Japanese imagination makes it desirable to merge with mighty machines? ), intra-group dynamics that only the Japanese would care about.
From the novel All You Need Is Kill © 2004 by Hiroshi Sakurazaka :
Quote:Holy crap! I understand why there is still an Emperor. Only in Japan would someone low in the hierarchy write that BS paragraph about their superior's superior qualities. They really want to believe and put faith in those higher up.
Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.
The only idea better in the novel than the movie is the name All You Need Is Kill. Banzai!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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You're right, after re-reading my response, it doesn't make sense.
Cage knows that Rita dies when they reach the helicopter, he even mentions to her that they try a different scenario where she stays behind in the farm house, and he goes ahead. But, after he goes to visit her at the training facility, he decides it best for him to go alone - in an attempt to save her. He is no longer thinking of himself and is willing to sacrifice himself to save her and humanity. He now has the hero's mentality.
He goes to the German post where he visualized the Omega, and discovers it's a trap. He returns to talk with Carter and Rita to tell them the bad news, Carter tells Cage that the device is in Whitehall.............they go, Cage loses his ability, etc. That's probably how she lost Henderson, no matter what she did, he died. It's like when Superman loses his Earth-father, Jonathan Kent, all those powers and he can't save him.
You're probably right about the Omega calculating into the equation and keeping Rita from going with him to the German mountain. One of the things I enjoy about this film is that they don't spoon feed the audience every single plot twist and storyline. It makes you think.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
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I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield, hence Farrell's speech and it's true meaning.
I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess. The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major, or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
It makes his journey to becoming a hero all the more interesting. By film's end, he's a heroic hunk. The first time he comes to Rita in the training facility in the barracks; he's a private. When he resets the first encounter at the end, he's a major and the men in the facility snap to attention...........honoring his transformation and rank....(damn, I'm good. Actually, the script is damn-near perfect).
SGG
P.S. That whole thing with the general was, to me, a commentary on the difference between the soldier doing battle in the field and the "High" command. Often they are at odds. Brigham was so caught up in being General that he didn't heed the warnings of Carter, Rita or Cage regarding the alien horde. Still though, it's curious how he kept the thingy Carter fashioned to get info from the Alpha.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
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I agree with you about the novel, it does get into the minutiae of the armor, which makes it quite boring to read. I found myself skipping ahead a lot. It is a romanticized version of Army life, but also a continuation of the fascination with robotics and man-machines or exoskeletons within Japanese sci-fi.
In the novel, Cage was a young lowly private barely out of high school. Of course Tom is a long way from high school. So obviously they changed that and made it more dynamic and clever by making him a glorified civilian with limited training in college (still a stretch). Clever in the sense that they made him out to be a slickster, a conniver, a type of Ferris Bueller of the Army set. Imagine trying to blackmail a general. That's chutzpah!
The further away he was from "hero" the better the transformation at the end in the third act. Much better than all that techno mumble jumble about exoskeletal body armor.
Agreed: Great title "All You Need Is Kill"
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:I have no problem with what you wrote.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Your recent posts in this thread I find refreshingly on target. I must review the thread to see if I agree with everything you said. Have you found any of my points objectionable?
I admire the movie. The screenplay used a small portion of the novel, throwing away what appeals only to the Japanese: pseudo-scientific explanations, far too much detail about mechanized armor Jackets (what in Japanese imagination makes it desirable to merge with mighty machines? ), intra-group dynamics that only the Japanese would care about.
From the novel All You Need Is Kill © 2004 by Hiroshi Sakurazaka :Quote:Holy crap! I understand why there is still an Emperor. Only in Japan would someone low in the hierarchy write that BS paragraph about their superior's superior qualities. They really want to believe and put faith in those higher up.
Sergeant Ferrell Bartolome had been around longer than anyone else in our platoon. He’d lived through so many battles, he was more than soldier, he was the glue that kept our company together. They said if you stuck him in a centrifuge, he’d come out 70 percent big brother, 20 percent ball-busting drill sergeant, and 10 percent steel-reinforced carbon.
The only idea better in the novel than the movie is the name All You Need Is Kill. Banzai!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, looks like I understood what you said, but found it illogical. He knows she will die either way, but finds it better to risk failing to save the world (without her help, teamwork) than having to see her die. I don't see this in the scriptwork, but it sounds like you think so.
I took a calculated guess that Cage didn't want Rita along because each time she dies at the helicopter, but he doesn't, it is only when he goes that he figures out that it's another trap by the Omega.
SGG
The trap is why Omega needs Rita to not accompany Cage.
I keep rereading your sentence, and still cannot make sense of it.
You're right, after re-reading my response, it doesn't make sense.
Cage knows that Rita dies when they reach the helicopter, he even mentions to her that they try a different scenario where she stays behind in the farm house, and he goes ahead. But, after he goes to visit her at the training facility, he decides it best for him to go alone - in an attempt to save her.
Wrong. He cannot save her. She will die on the beach long before he gets to the helicopter. She only survives longer than a few minutes on the beach when he brings her along.
Quote:
He is no longer thinking of himself and is willing to sacrifice himself to save her and humanity.
ditto.
Quote:
He now has the hero's mentality.
He goes to the German post where he visualized the Omega, and discovers it's a trap. He returns to talk with Carter and Rita to tell them the bad news, Carter tells Cage that the device is in Whitehall.............they go,
Brigham causes Cage to bleed out, instead of allowing the extermination of human race to be stopped.
Quote:
Cage loses his ability, etc. That's probably how she lost Henderson, no matter what she did, he died. It's like when Superman loses his Earth-father, Jonathan Kent, all those powers and he can't save him.
You're probably right about the Omega calculating into the equation and keeping Rita from going with him to the German mountain.
Turner Dam, I think you mean.
Dozens of mimics hiding away, waiting for Rita & Cage to show up and stop her from accompanying Cage to the Trap? All those for just one helicopter, isolated and vacant, hidden, and then Rita? "Probably right" my muscular buttocks.
Quote:
One of the things I enjoy about this film is that they don't spoon feed the audience every single plot twist and storyline. It makes you think.
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He held the rank of Major. Get over it.
He held the rank, he earned the rank of Major. Deal with it.
I can agree Brigham was a cardboard cutout and did not earn the rank of General, which is in fact why most U.S. forces did not operate under foreign commanders.
If Cage had not earned the rank of Major, he would not have been displayed on worldwide television as a spokesperson wearing a Major costume.
I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
Cage did not HAVE a position on the battlefield, other to be executed thru Brigham's and Farrell's lies and deceptions.
Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on.
As was proven at Verdun, by Rita. Brigham knew the truth, but being a despicable a-hole, hid the facts from the rest of the military.
Quote:
Cage might have been a major,
Not might have. Cage was a Major. Get over it. Deal with it. Get a clue.
Quote:
but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
Now you are repeating me. Do Generals of the JAG prove themselves via combat skills or military prowess? Do Generals of the Medical Corps prove themselves via combat skills or military prowess?
Get a clue.
Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
incorrect. Get a clue.
I will agree that the UDF was most certainly desperate to allow Brigham to claim the rank of General. But then, he didn't come from the U.S.
Quote:
The first time he comes to Rita in the training facility in the barracks; he's a
Major wearing incorrect gear, out of uniform, and railroaded. But following her orders.
Quote:
When he resets the first encounter at the end, he's a major
As he has always been.
Quote:
and the men in the facility snap to attention...........honoring his
correct rank
Quote:
rank....
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
SGG
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I'm using my imagination and filling in the blanks. Kind of developing a back story
to complete a picture of just who is Cage.
We know that Batman is Bruce Wayne, but we assume that he loved his parents (who did not actually raise him). We know that Alfred stays with him throughout his childhood. What does he think of Alfred? What about Rachel Dawes?
Why do I assume that Bruce loves his parents? You tell me, Joker.
Anyway, we don't have to be told things verbatim, that can be expressed through inference.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.Quote:
hence Farrell's speech and it's true meaning.
I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.Quote:
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
that is not in the film.Quote:
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.Quote:
SGG
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I'm using my imagination and filling in the blanks. Kind of developing a back story
to complete a picture of just who is Cage.
Anyway, we don't have to be told things verbatim, that can be expressed through inference.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please)
SGG
What I'm talking about is within the film.
SGG
really.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I know that he was a major, and how he got to be one. ROTC training, owned an advertising agency, etc. He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.
That is absolutely 100% in the film. Major - check. ROTC - check. PR man - check. War ended his ad company, and he got called in to do PR for the military. Check. Check.
It's 100% true that he had no combat training and "earned" his rank through other means. It's not just *in* the film; it is central to the plot and character development.
Check that fuzzy memory of yours JSF.
Quote:Quote:
I did not say he was stupid, Cage was plenty smart, so much so, he thought blackmailing a general would (like in the civilian world) get him the results he would ordinarily get. He even tried to run. He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.
That is most certainly in the film. It's in every action Cage takes in the first 10-20 minutes.
JSF, can you point out any action Cage takes in the first go around of the time loop that suggests that he does have military combat training? SGG and I can point out (and have pointed out) several things to show that he doesn't. So whatcha got?
In fact, in previous posts in this thread you were rather strident about how he did NOT have military training, ie the general was a very bad unfair man to send poor untrained Cage to the front with no experience.
So which is it?
Quote:Quote:
In the beginning of the film, Cage talks about how with limited training a soldier could literally defeat an army with the suit on. He certainly finds out differently. Just before he tries blackmailing the general, he tells him how he can't stand the sight of blood, not even so much as a paper cut. He is a complete wuss. Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.
That is in the film. Cage has no idea about combat. He can't even turn off the safety on the suit. He's completely green.
Again, JSF, can you point out the scenes in the movie that make you believe he earned his rank through military prowess? They must have been convincing, to make you change your mind since those posts of yours I referred to already. The ones where you said Cage had no training.
So what lines/scenes convinced you? Now, I'm talking about actual things that happen in the movie, not ones you make up in your fuzzy memory.
Quote:Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
....
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.
These are indeed not in the film, and not necessary for the plot. Cage started out a wuss and a coward, but he was a good PR man. He did that well, and it was useful to the military. In that sense I think he earned his position.
His failure was in being willing to recruit 1000s of human beings to give away their lives when he wasn't willing to take any sort of risk himself, even one that was far short of what they risked. IN that he was pure hypocrite and coward.
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This is solely for SGG. I will try to clarify.
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
that is not in the film.
Quote:
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.
Quote:
SGG
I hope that reduces your confusion.
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JSF, you continually dig a deeper hole for yourself. Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training, but there is ample reason to assume he got it by political means.
There is no argument that Cage is a hero by the end of the film, but he is the exact opposite at the beginning. SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.
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Quoted from previous posts. Questions for JSF.
1. Can you point out any action Cage takes in the first go around of the time loop that suggests that he does have military combat training?
2. In fact, in previous posts in this thread you were rather strident about how he did NOT have military training, ie the general was a very bad unfair man to send poor untrained Cage to the front with no experience. So which is it?
3. What lines/scenes convinced you? Now, I'm talking about actual things that happen in the movie, not ones you make up in your fuzzy memory.
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And here is what JSF said in the first page of this thread:
Quote:
No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He ["He" here being Cage] was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there.
JSF said, straight up, that Cage was "not, absolutely not" a "trained guy."
My lord, JSF, you really are a troll. You make it so easy to prove what a doorknob you are. What is so wrong with you that you feed off being such an obvious moron? Have you no pride?
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JSF, I really enjoy talking about a good movie and figuring out the different meanings and plot twists, but you make it hard to want to continue the discussion.
I am more than willing to discuss anyone's take on a film's theme or a character's motivation. All, like any work of art, stimulates the imagination and stirs the soul. But you frustratingly refuse to logically discuss these matters with an open mind. If you don't want to discuss a film's merit with even a hint of civil intelligence, I will not continue to beat a dead horse thinking I will get a different result.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is solely for SGG. I will try to clarify.Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
If you feel different, please provide cinematic proof (within the context of the film, please) as to why you feel this is not so. What part of what he tells the general strikes you as heroic? How exactly did he earn his rank as Major?
SGG
Did you read my post on rank of non-combat personnel?
What I'm talking about is within the film.
He did not earn his position on the battlefield,
that is not in the film.Quote:
He had no clue about the inner workings of the military world.
that is not in the film.Quote:
Cage might have been a major, but it was not due to his combat skills or his military prowess.
that is not in the film.Quote:
The US Army must have been desperate to give him the rank of major,
that is not in the film.Quote:
or he probably got it through conniving and his underhanded abilities.
that is not in the film.Quote:
SGG
I hope that reduces your confusion.
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Thanks M4P, I knew that I was spinning my wheels im my attempt to intelligently discuss this film with JSF, for reasons even beyond my own understanding, I felt that maybe there would be an exchange of ideas (such as our discussions) whereby we could both benefit.
Sadly, I was wrong.
I say sadly because I truly love film, and discussing it gives me great satisfaction. As an aside, every time I see this film I discover something new. By the way, the "Cage" in the book describes himself as green, a raw recruit. Cruise is a bit old to play the role of a green recruit (with little in the way of combat skills), so the script called for an older guy with a "yellow" streak and dubious credentials. Having that meeting at the start of the film was indeed crucial to the set in Act One. But, please forgive me for explaining to you, of all people, the intricacies of Film 101.
Part of the reason I'm so impressed with the script is that it sets up, with great success and in a short period of time, just who our guy is. A fast-talking, double-dealing manipulator who has no compunction to blackmail a superior officer. A truly sound professional piece of work by Christopher McQuarrie (I'm attaching a review from Screen Rant that has some interesting observations).
http://screenrant.com/edge-tomorrow-alternate-ending/
Thanks again, don't be such a stranger
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And here is what JSF said in the first page of this thread:Quote:
No. The General was being an ass. You might think of it as "first wave" and write them off. But those were supposed to be trained guys. He ["He" here being Cage] was not, absolutely not. He was wasting a suit/armor thing. He absolutely should not have been there.
JSF said, straight up, that Cage was "not, absolutely not" a "trained guy."
My lord, JSF, you really are a troll. You make it so easy to prove what a doorknob you are. What is so wrong with you that you feed off being such an obvious moron? Have you no pride?
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Thanks EC, for your support. I tried to be clear and concise about my position on the film, but to no avail. I do enjoy when a film guides you, rather than spoon-feed you through the story.
Well, you know more than most.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
JSF, you continually dig a deeper hole for yourself. Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training, but there is ample reason to assume he got it by political means.
There is no argument that Cage is a hero by the end of the film, but he is the exact opposite at the beginning. SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,
SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.
Logic failure.
We can use things not stated or shown in the film.
I must use things only stated or shown in the film.
Make up your mind.
When I mention things not explicitly stated or shown in the film, these are not allowed.
When SGG uses things he dreamed, fantasized, or conjured, those are solid bits, even when showing his obvious lack of military knowledge.
Come on. A non-commissioned Sergeant has the authority to strip a Filed Grade Commissioned Officer of his rank? You must be joking.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
JSF, I really enjoy talking about a good movie and figuring out the different meanings and plot twists, but you make it hard to want to continue the discussion.
I am more than willing to discuss anyone's take on a film's theme or a character's motivation. All, like any work of art, stimulates the imagination and stirs the soul.
SGG
I requested your response for a while. You have responded lately.
Thank you for your time.
Regarding my first post/reply yesterday, I mistaken thought I was replying to SGG, but it was Mal4 who prompted my post. Sorry for any confusion there.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,
SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.
Logic failure.
We can use things not stated or shown in the film.
I must use things only stated or shown in the film.
Make up your mind.
When I mention things not explicitly stated or shown in the film, these are not allowed.
When SGG uses things he dreamed, fantasized, or conjured, those are solid bits, even when showing his obvious lack of military knowledge.
Come on. A non-commissioned Sergeant has the authority to strip a Filed Grade Commissioned Officer of his rank? You must be joking.
SGG may have asked you to point to anything in the film to support your theories, but I didn't. But the truth is, you haven't presented anything either in the film or just implied to support your pronouncements about Cage. You accuse Farrell of stripping Cage of his rank, but that action was taken by Brigham, and it was because of Cage's arrogance that he could threaten a superior officer and walk out on his duty. You've also gone so far as to imply General Brigham was in collusion with the aliens. I have to echo the question, "Where do you come up with this crap?"
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Regarding my first post/reply yesterday, I mistaken thought I was replying to SGG, but it was Mal4 who prompted my post. Sorry for any confusion there.
You were replying to me? Could you please then answer the questions:
1. Can you point out any action Cage takes in the first go around of the time loop that suggests that he does have military combat training?
2. In fact, in previous posts in this thread you were rather strident about how he did NOT have military training, ie the general was a very bad unfair man to send poor untrained Cage to the front with no experience. So which is it?
3. What lines/scenes convinced you? Now, I'm talking about actual things that happen in the movie, not ones you make up in your fuzzy memory.
Addendum...
4. You said, straight up, that Cage was "not, absolutely not" a "trained guy." What is so wrong with you that you feed off being such an obvious moron? Have you no pride?
Now, I don't believe that "JSF" will address any of this directly, because JSF is a cowardly troll who delights in posting wrong shit just to mess with people. ie - all the "That is not in the movie" BS is soooooo ironically funny. JSFtroll wrote a long, detailed post of his/her whacked opinions of this film that was so far off that he/she had to actually admit that none of it was actually in the movie. And yet he/she (River) still wants to be respected as any kind of reasonable voice.
Troll. So clearly troll.
It's not an accident. Just like in RWED, JSF purposely does wrong stuff because he/she knows that that will draw a reaction. He/she is usually too smart to get caught in it so obviously. Not this time!
Moron.
JSF. Please. Entertain me. Do something even more obviously wrong than you have so far. Including: try to respond to this post point by point. Please.
/so entertained!
*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
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Well put! Farrell was, as I have stated in another post, following orders - because that's the soldier he is (old school, regular Army). His reaction, to me, was one of incredulity, like he couldn't wait to get to confab with his fellow DI's and regale them with:
"Wait'll you hear about the one I got today, officer's uni and everything. And would you believe, he interrupted me in the middle of my speech."
To me, he couldn't care less what his (Cage's) story was; no one in his outfit was deserting. Paxton was all kinds of awesome in this small, but pivotal role. I was kind of bewildered that he do not appear at all in the third act, but my guess is they wanted to shift the focus and pace of the film. I reiterate, Farrell, for me, was the narrator in the film providing the logic within the first act and part of the second.
General Brigham was a different story entirely. Upper level brass has an entirely different take on the war, reviewing movements on maps and charts, and the like. I got the feeling that people within his world don't say No much to him. A bureaucrat with military authority and no regard for those in his command, other than to hear them say "Yessir." Farrell would follow orders, but not before giving the general that charming southern smile and I don't care look in his eyes.
These nuances may prove to be too much for JSF to consider.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Just because something is not specifically stated or shown in the film, it doesn't mean you can't infer certain things based on a character's actions. There is no reason to assume Cage reached his position due to military action or training,
SGG has asked you multiple times to show where in the movie it is shown or stated otherwise, but you have failed to do so.
Logic failure.
We can use things not stated or shown in the film.
I must use things only stated or shown in the film.
Make up your mind.
When I mention things not explicitly stated or shown in the film, these are not allowed.
When SGG uses things he dreamed, fantasized, or conjured, those are solid bits, even when showing his obvious lack of military knowledge.
Come on. A non-commissioned Sergeant has the authority to strip a Filed Grade Commissioned Officer of his rank? You must be joking.
SGG may have asked you to point to anything in the film to support your theories, but I didn't. But the truth is, you haven't presented anything either in the film or just implied to support your pronouncements about Cage. You accuse Farrell of stripping Cage of his rank, but that action was taken by Brigham, and it was because of Cage's arrogance that he could threaten a superior officer and walk out on his duty. You've also gone so far as to imply General Brigham was in collusion with the aliens. I have to echo the question, "Where do you come up with this crap?"
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Tom Cruise displays something that appears to be telepathy, when it is not that at all. It is precognition or, exactly, seeing the future because he has been there. Cruise is better than River Tam at discovering people's inner secrets. For example:
"Your name is NOT really Ford. Ford was your friend who died in combat on his first day. You took his place and send your paychecks to his family."
That little revelation surprised Ford and the entire platoon. Cruise persuades them to follow him on a suicide mission to Paris. Go or not go, they know they die at dawn. So they go.
IDK.
If they KNOW they die at dawn, on the beach, that would change the story a bit. They needed to BELIEVE he was correct when he said they would die at dawn on the beach - and this mission was actually their only hope of surviving. THAT is what shows their courage and the validity of their redemption, not merely an avoidance of something causing their inevitable death.
this is a quote of a post on the second page of this thread. 10 July.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:I think the alternative ending in the book would make for a very unsatisfying movie. Tom Cruise promises the forever dead, with no hope of a reset, Emily Blunt:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I was disappointed in the ending because it was neatly, but quite abruptly tied up into a cute bow. It was, for me anyways, anti-climatic. But not in a totally dissatisfying way. It's just that after all that brilliant set up during the first 3/4 of the movie, it felt like they rushed those final scenes to fit the movie under a certain time. . . .
In my ending both Rita and Cage get to be heroes.Quote:The book's ending was too Japanese for me.
While I live and breathe, humanity will never fall. I promise you. It may take a dozen years, but I will win this war for you. Even if you won’t be here to see it. You were the only person I wanted to protect, and you were gone.Quote:That's not a good ending for a movie. www.amazon.com/All-Need-Kill-Hiroshi-Sakurazaka/dp/1421527618/
I sat there for some time holding the last cup of coffee she’d ever made, for someone she’d barely known. Its thin aroma stirred in me an insufferable longing and sadness. A small colony of blue-green mold bobbed on the surface of the coffee. Raising the cup to my lips, I drank.
Do you think this is the ending originally in the film - the book's version? Or was it just Cage not surviving the death of Omega?
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Second, I have reviewed your posts in this thread, and, once the film was released, I have enjoyed your replies, and this one I feel is one of the most pertinent of the thread. Thanks for your input.
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Master Sergeant Farell didn't last a minute in combat. The Mimics weren't impressed by his swagger. Apparently he wasn't as important as he thought he was in the bigger scheme of things.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
It is also a way to forge unselfishness, contrary to what both Cage and the general had in mind. There is no I in team, etc.
SGG
The results showed on the beach the next day, when J-squad was wiped out just as they deserved - or, more accurately, Farrell deserved.
Have you seen Inception? I did not find any posts by you in the discussion thread for Inception, in the Other Science Fiction Series forum.
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I finally picked up a copy. noticed a few things.
What is with the credits - they were confusing in the theater, and upon further review, they still are.
Brigham's Secretary is Iris but credits list her as Judith.
Who the heck is/was Karen Lord? Was her part cut?
Cool to see Tom Hardy's wife in J-Squad.
Emily's brother Sebastian has credit - was he the guy she squashed before he could complete "Full Metal B-" coming out of the hangar?
Corporal Montgomery is listed in credits as Julie. Was a bunch of her part cut, or did she have a greater interaction with Cage than we saw?
In the book, was their also a retarded General Brigham? Did he also keep trying to lose the war? I understand they were invading Japan, but did they also have a moronic plan to land helicopters on the beach instead of inland? Or are these moronic ideas from the screen adaptation team?
at 20:20-25 the Rules of Engagement are Observed: Kuntz, near Cage, shoots at mimic, and is immediately engaged with return fire missile, holing him. Thus the mimics target those with active munitions, of which Cage has none.
22:20 Farell turns Cage around. Some have claimed Cage is "running away" but in fact Farell and the remnants of J-Squad (Nance, Griff, Skinner, Ford) were not near where Cage was, or else they would have been wiped out under Rita's crashing drop ship (after Kimmel and Kuntz were scratched). Cage was not moving away from J-squad, and had not seen any J-Squad members besides Kimmel and Kuntz after getting feet-down on the beach.
Farell first gives cage speech inside, then on reboot around 26:00 gives speech outside, then on other reboots randomly gives it outside or inside. This is Farell's standard boilerplate speech, given thousands of times over his retarded years, even knows where to continue it after Cage reminds him where he left off. The speech has no relation to Cage. I have tried to delude myself into imagining this yakking has significance such as others here have alluded to, but sorry, it is just boilerplate gibberish.
However, there are a few pertinent points. Farell says, an ironic notion, that Fate is in Hands Other Than Our Own is not allowed. What Farell prohibits is in fact the only truth applied to Cage.
The name of the dam is not Turner, but Curnera Dam, apparently.
Cage is already on at least his 8th reboot before Rita tells him to find her when he wakes up.
At 34:52, he covers up the card game only after Rita tells him to find her - now he has a mission, a goal.
1:10:27 Cage reboots, the sargeant sees that he is despondant, in despair, with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Feisty or bewildered are what is expected.
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Continued from yesterday's post...
Exposed card game first time at 12:33, after first reset 26:59, second reset Cage exposes the cards, don't see again until at least 9th reset when Cage covers up the cards after Rita says to find her, at 34:52.
Pertinent lines:
You are not mentally equipped to fight this thing, and never will be. Cage to doofus Brigham.
Credits: uncredited soldier Johnson is listed at imdb as a black actor, but the MP type escorts for Cage to J-Squad are both white - the guy to the left is Johnson, to the right is Goodman. Sure, more than one Johnson is likely, but the credits shouldn't normally confuse them.
Cage has at least 8 resets before Rita tells him to find her.
At least 17 resets before he gets the Vision of Trap.
At least 29 resets before we see him at the tavern getting a brew.
The helicopter scene with Rita is around 7 in the evening, and Cage has been through this many times by the time we see it. The span of waking on the duffel bags to this is about 24-34 hours each time. He has not mentally gotten sleep because he is training Rita all the time, and she must know this, but Rita complains that SHE is tired and wants to start over.
The 3 sugars scene with Rita. I wonder - is he testing her, to see if she will go along with his idea this time?
I am assuming that the book had much plotting worked out, but had a different point to be made with it's conclusion. The happier ending/outcome came from the treatment, or screenplay, but this adaptation seems also where all the plot holes and problems come from.
I have not reconciled the reset capabilities. Rita says it "resets the day" and from Cage's first time, he would reset to waking that morning in his rack in the J-Squad barracks. But he wakes instead to his recovering from taser on the duffelbags, the afternoon before. All following resets are to the same time, even if he only lasts less than an hour. If the reference is the Omega's sense of day, why would that be to the middle of the day about 18 hours prior? The final destruction of Omega resets to Cage's nap time in the arriving chopper, arriving Whitehall, a few hours before all the other resets.
In training, he is dead after a few hours or more. The beach is the next morning at 0600. The helicopter/farmhouse is about 7pm the day after being tasered. The bar is late morning or noonish of the 2nd day. The bleed out is afternoon of the first day, and the escape after bleedout is about 3am, hours before the beach assault - so the killing of Omega is about 0530 (sunrise).
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Emily Blunt on Letterman tonight.
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I found it confusing when he said that he was in the U.S. Military when he was wearing UDF insignia. Was this ad-lid on Cruise's part? Was the script screwed up? Did the costume people screw up? Regardless, it is in the film, so it must be canon.
This means that he was Commissioned by the United States Congress, and no doofus UDF clown can strip him of his Officer Commission, and regardless of what doofus General wants, Cage remains a Commissioned Officer of the United States, and his rank is Major. He can only be Decommissioned, or stripped of his Rank or Commission by the United States Command Authority, or a panel of fellow U.S. Officers in a Court-Martial. All claims of him being a non-officer in any situation other than being a Prisoner of War held by the UDF are preposterous. Even POWs retain their Commission, and their rank, and opposing forces such as the doofus UDF have no authority to change that.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Emily Blunt on Letterman tonight.
So she almost kills Cruise during EoT filming, but she saves Meryl Streep. Will this become a weave of her backstories?
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I have come to cringe at the thought of watching Farell's scenes again because of all the fantasies mentioned here about how great he is or how powerful his speechifying is. But I do try to produce the illusion in my mind that would match what others here have said.
This last viewing I did notice something that I hadn't before.
All of J-Squad also knows Farell is a moron. And so does General Brigham. Of all the places Brigham could have put Cage, who could possibly be stupid enough to fall for such a ridiculous story as the one Farell swallows from Brigham? Maybe Farell was a Lance Corporal in the United States Military, but in the doofus UDF he is so retarded that they promote him to Master Sergeant. Why else would Farell get Brigham's gift of Cage?
J-Squad plays cards all the time because they have no respect whatsoever for the retarded dipstick MSgt they are stuck with. J-Squad is his top squad, his "tip of the spear" and they seethe with contempt whenever his gibberish is frothing from his pie-hole. J-Squad has to train the MSgt, like in the real military the MSgt would need to train the LT.
When Farell blathers on about having control of your fate, J-Squad knows better, but you can hear the contempt for him in every word they parrot back to the retard.
When Farell comes out with his moronic "ironic" revelation, J-Squad is practically stunned to silence with his ineptitude.
When Farell offloads his responsibility of training Cage, getting him ready for combat, all of J-Squad completely ignores the idiot, and clearly they have always ignored the idiot, and make no attempt whatsoever to train Cage to even unsafe his weapon.
In the Lift, when brainless Farell spouts "there is no courage without fear" J-Squad takes this as cue for joke time - every single one of them openly ignores Farell so they can poke fun at the noob.
During PT, they all ignore his chanting and jabber about, yakking away while retard Farell calls cadence, and they are "grab-assing".
When Farell turns Cage around on the beach, he is not heading him toward J-Squad, he has no clue where J-Squad is, that Kimmel is dead, whether Kuntz or Skinner are dead, and J-Squad is not assembled.
When Farell bumbles into J-Squad, and announces his moronic presence, Griff wakes up and mentions to the retard Farell that the mimic horde was not supposed to know they were coming, Ford informs idiot Farell that they are getting slaughtered here. Farell blusters to get in line, give sitrep, flank the position.
Moron Farell tells all to wait (don't shoot) until the mimic are right on them, while the mimic is amidst the squad.
On another note, why does Cage tell Rita to take the minivan, don't wait for me - if he does not go, the rest happens. What is the point of telling her to not wait for him? Between this set of resets and the set at the farmhouse/helicopter, is when Rita talks to him, time after time. He doesn't seem to get to know her before getting off the beach, other than the "is something on my face." But this driving time of talking seems to be where he gets to know her better than ever, and he seems to become more taken with her than before.
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Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...
Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.
I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...
Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.
I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.
'Edge Of Tomorrow' lacked a few key elements that a really good bug movie needs ...
.. Neil Patrick Harris in a leather Gestapo trench coat saying "We're in this for the species people!"
.. Michael Ironside getting his limbs ripped off. (that's just a given)
.. Denise Richards crawling on the ground in agony with a serious flesh wound.
.. The obligatory naked coed shower scene. (unforgivable omission)
.. Catchy slogans, like "the only good bug is a dead bug!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...
Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.
I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.
Yes, they were hashed out. I agree that the film didn't include enough of the backstory, but it apparently was in the books, and is reasonable.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Finally saw it. Emily is a real treat. I just didn't buy the whole alien invasion thing though. I mean, how did such an advanced species take YEARS to over run the planet ? How was there news coverage and any semblance of society 6 months after they attacked ? They seem damn near impossible to defeat...
Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now.
I don't hate Tom Cruise as much as I thought I did. He's actually quite watchable. But I liked this movie less than Oblivion. Even with Emily in it.
Yes, they were hashed out. I agree that the film didn't include enough of the backstory, but it apparently was in the books, and is reasonable.
Did they have to get over the Earth cold and flu season first ? And as a movie watcher, who did NOT read the books, such back story is important ! Like Dr Evil said... " Need the info, people !" Hell, at least make some off hand reference to the long drawn out war. From what I can tell, even w/ those new battle suits, the humans are still getting mowed down like summer grass.
Quote:
.. Catchy slogans, like "the only good bug is a dead bug!"
And don't forget... " We're gonna fight ! And we're gonna win ! "
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:The information you seek was in THE VERY FIRST MINUTE of the movie, while film company logos were running. The Omega arrives on a meteorite that crashes in Germany. (Later, Doctor What's-His-Name will explain it to Cruise.) A map shows the slow spread over FIVE YEARS as the Omega moves to Paris. It is ONE OMEGA versus Earth.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having not read the 4 pages or so of this thread, I guess most of the particulars have been hashed over by now. . . .
Did they have to get over the Earth cold and flu season first ? And as a movie watcher, who did NOT read the books, such back story is important ! Like Dr Evil said... " Need the info, people !" Hell, at least make some off hand reference to the long drawn out war. From what I can tell, even w/ those new battle suits, the humans are still getting mowed down like summer grass.
It is rather an arrogant plan to send only one invader, but the Omega's time technology is so good that it should make an Omega overconfident. But the Omega never watched a Tom Cruise movie or else it would have been more cautious.
That meteorite was NOT big enough to carry billions of mimics. The mimics were grown on Earth, with DNA mimicking Earth DNA, custom made to kill Earthlings. I guess the Omega had to make mimics like Nabisco bakes cookies or Winchester loads ammo or Raytheon makes Tomahawk Cruise Missiles. It takes years to cook 7 billion cookies, one for every human, in batches of a few million at a time.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Fair enough. I'll rewatch & pay closer attention.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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