Well, that's probably it from me in this. I tried to figure out how Chinese horoscope use the inner and secret animals to help calculate compatibility, since every resource I've seen says they play a major role, but no dice. I think they want to protect their secrets so people have to pay them.

But off hand, I can say this. I'll do the most common pairings.

Zoe and Wash as two monkeys are a good match. The inner tiger and inner rat are friendly and freely share opinions, though they have their arguments. Rabbit and sheep secret animals, great.

Mal's inner rooster would likely be attracted to the strength of will of Inara's oxen sign, and Inara's inner dog is likely attracted the the heroic nature of Mal's dog. On the surface, though, the Dog and Ox have trouble understanding each other, and the Dog and Rooster don't have much in common. But the rabbit and sheep secret animals get along great.

Simon and Kaylee's Rooster and Sheep will have trouble, the sheep will find the rooster too assertive, candid, and forward, and the sheep has a tendency to be uncertain, and despite his sensitivity will sometimes start off on the wrong foot. The inner dog and tiger respect each other, however. The pig and the rat can have fun together, and the will care deeply about each other, but they'll have up and downs and won't be able to manage money for the life of them.

Interestingly, I just learned something I didn't know about the Chinese zodiac. The days of the month for the inner animal do matter. If a person is born within the first 15 days of their month, they're supposed to be more yang, more extroverted and logical, and the last fifteen days makes them more introverted and emotional.

As I said before, I think I disagree with fireflywiki's age for Wash. He'd be a dog, like Mal, and I just don't see Wash as being quite the crusader that a Dog is. His sense of humour, bubbly, distractable, excitable, easily confused, it all strikes me as Wash being a a perfect representation of the monkey, meaning he's the same age as Zoe.

Wash wants to travel, to be the best in his field, but at the same time, Better Days reveals that despite Wash's reluctance to have children on Serenity, he does have an interest in raising a family. So his inner animal is likely to be a Rat.

A secret side Wash doesn't show much? Now that's tough. Well, he does kind of cling to Zoe, and gets jealous, which may indicate he's not as self confident as he seems. Maybe a Sheep?

So that means Wash was born in January, between 1 and 3 pm, in the year 2484.

Jayne's I got wrong before too, he's a metal ox. Haha, that one's pretty good actually.

So oxen are usually pretty determined at whatever they set their minds to. In Inara's case, she wanted to become house priestess, and now she's determined to help people and steer Mal back on track.

Jayne has less altruistic things in mind. The metal element often makes people interested in what's material and valuable. He's stubborn and obstinate and will try to insist on his way, and doesn't really display his emotions freely. Yeah, yeah, you've heard all this before. But what Inara doesn't represent about the oxen, possibly due to her other signs and the wood element, is that the oxen often tries to bully to get their way (this is another reason why I was surprised when Inara was an ox!).

Deep down, the ox is dependable, something represented in how Jayne sends money back to his parents AND in his struggles to not get so attached to the crew. But they are wary people, and not very sociable, and Jayne tries to keep himself from getting too attached to the people he works with. But much as he tries to be treacherous towards the crew, he will ultimately be unsuccessful, as the crew have been relatively good to him and he finds himself wanting to like and trust the people around him.

Jayne wants to be the Rooster, which puts him directly at odds with Mal's wanting to be the Rooster. It also gives him a kind of bluntness, a big ego, and a snarky, cutting sense of humour. His biggest annoyance is no one seems to listen to him or take him seriously. He likes throwing his weight around because no one can ignore the physical threat he represents.

I think his secret animal may very well be the same as his surface animal. Jayne is ultimately a simple character, what you see is what you get.

So this means Jayne was born in September, between 1 and 3 am, in 2477.

Okay, so let's see, continuing the analysis. I got Book's year animal wrong somehow initially. He's a fire monkey. Smart, knows how things work, practical and determined. The fire monkey has a deceptive power, but they're friendly and personable. Monkeys are also good at communicating ideas, and they have a good sense of humour. I think he also has a strong earth element influence, calm and collected, with a concern for other people, by the book and devotes himself to causes.

I think he may also be a dog inner animal. I think when he was younger, he saw himself as a crusader for a cause, but I think that cause betrayed him or he changed his mind about it. In that way, he sees a lot of himself in Mal.

Underneath, I think Book is something stronger even than expected, something that can be ruthless and can sidle up beside you with a smile, something that while very morally structured and a true believer has a temper and a calculating side. I think his secret animal is a Dragon.

So, I would predict Book to be born in October, between 7 and 9 am, in 2460.

So that makes me an earth monkey--likely dirty and involved in poo-flinging. Influenced by wood ox and whatever kind of rooster (couldn't find the specifics on that on). I'm gonna have to look into this further...

Maybe if I can figure out a way to distill the descriptions of their year animal/element combo, inner animal, and hidden animal in ten words or less. But you're probably right, this is pretty wordy. Well, but at least I'm showing my work.

I was thinking this could be a handy resource, being that there's a lot of Chinese influence in the verse. My understanding is people in China really pay attention to their zodiac, and not even just as relationship compatibility, but just because. I figure the members of the crew would at least know their own animal signs. Plus I have dates of birth.

Oh, no, no advertising, since I'm not sure it'll go anywhere. It was meant to get lost here! Though all your signs shouldn't: you should consolidate them into a single post or thread. :-)

Wha! Awesome! You should post about it, make it official. :) It'll get lost here.

I know people who will be very happy to hear about this. :) I can spread the news too, if you like. I personally volunteer to be your messenger!

Good points about Simon, although I still think he's pretty intense. I kind of like this idea with the snake now that I think about it, it's like the tiger without all the extroversion and drama. And maybe he still is, maybe the Fire sheep creates a nice dynamic that way.

Oop, ten o clock. I should try to finish up my thoughts on potential signs for the rest of the crew who don't have given birthdays. And also analyze who gets along with who and how based on signs. All preferably before this blog falls off the front page.

Also, Simon may have been quite vivacious when his life in the Core was "normal," before River went to the Academy. His awkwardness on Serenity could be entirely circumstantial...

Just penned the first few bars of a new story, though I dare say it will be quite a while, if ever, before any of it gets posted. Thought you'd like to know: can't stop the signal, and all that. ;-)

Ooh, wait... If Simon is a Fire Tiger for 2490, and that doesn't work, then Simon could be a Fire Sheep for 2495, which is less of a pushover than the water sheep (which is why I dismissed it before).

Sheep are a quieter animal, which makes sense considering how Simon is. They're shy, but actually can be quite gifted socially if given the chance. Fire sheep are less vulnerable than other sheep, and can stand up for themselves and act independently. The only problem is that fire sheep can be described as "vivacious," but perhaps the dog and the rat, or a different secret animal (snake?) can bring in that Simon intensity.

The inner animal is based off of the Month of the person's birth, much like the eastern signs, and there may even have been a little bit of influence between east and east or some sort of earlier idea both systems were established on, because here and there there are some interesting parallels.

The secret animal is the very closest animal to who the person might really be, and it's based off of the hour of the person's birth, as that's the most minute detail about the person. I think the thinking is, if you know a person well enough to know the exact time they were born, then you probably know what their secret animal is.

The day a person is born also has some influence, though it's not the number that's anything special, it's the weather. It's said that children born on stormy days will have tumultuous lives, children born on calm days will lead fairly quiet lives, and children born on sunny days will have fairly happy lives.

Very interesting...was unaware of the inner/secret aspects. Makes it a lot deeper, which I felt the Chinese system lacked (shoulda known better than that!)
How do you calculate those aspects? All I've ever seen is the year & the elements. Admittedly, my study of the subject has been superficial.

I'm much more thoroughly versed in the western tradition (makes sense), but I am interested in the Chinese and Vedic (although the vedic is somewhat indecipherable to my western brain!)

Thanks for an interesting discourse...

Darn. I finally got off my lazy butt and did the elements in an excel spreadsheet, Zoe's is the only element I got right. So, have to make the following adjustments.

Mal: Earth Dog, Inner Rooster, Hidden Sheep. The logical tendencies of the Earth element here makes the dog more fair minded and just, but still makes for a good, inspiring leader.

Inara: Wood Ox, Inner Dog, Hidden Rabbit. The Wood element actually makes more sense, in that wood is more about people and friendships and business. Wood makes her less stubborn than other Oxen, in that she can actually change her mind about things. This sign also makes her more affectionate.

Simon: Fire Tiger, Inner Dog, Secret Rat (Maybe). Ack. Fire Tiger? That would make him really extroverted. Mmmm no.

Kaylee: Metal Rooster, Inner Tiger, Secret Pig. This element would make her "Arrogant, standoff-ish, and overanalyzing." Also a no.

River: Fire Rat, Inner Sheep, Secret Monkey. This still works. Fire would give her rat a lot of energy, she'd take on even more projects than usual. It also makes her impulsive, which might be what makes her do strange things. Rats don't really get angry, so fire wouldn't change her temperament much.

River is most likely a Water Rat (an animal which is itself influenced by water, a fluid element which represents thought, intuition, feelings, and connections). While appearing calm and friendly on the surface, the rat is are most intelligent, busy, and restless animal of the entire zodiac. They crave mental stimulation. Rats are very curious, and are constantly looking for challenges and opportunities. They can balance a lot of different activities at the same time, but because of this they have a tendency to bite off more than they can chew. Rats are likeable and affable, and protective of their loved ones, though they tend to think of themselves first. They're always looking for a personal advantage.

River might have been born in July, as this gives her both the western aspect of the Crab, making her a little eccentric, and also the sheep, an artistic, vulnerable animal that can be morbidly pessimistic. As a sheep, she wants people who are affectionate around her, who she trusts deeply, and who she can look after. It's possible considering her upper class upbringing that River only found this from her brother until they both came to Serenity.

River's secret animal is, of course, the monkey she hides up her sleeve, waiting to prank and outsmart everyone around her.

Maybe Kaylee's makes more sense than I thought at first glance, after all, the Rooster is the most optimistic of all the Chinese zodiac signs, and some Roosters will talk your ear off if you give them half the chance. But she doesn't really show her element influence well, as earth tends to make someone very meticulous and logical as opposed to emotional, as much as their sign allows. Kaylee is just a little bit flighty, and not very organized. She's really more like a Wood Rooster, she loves people and enjoys being part of the team. She makes the wood element a big part of her life, as we can see in her choice of floral prints and flowers everywhere.

Roosters tend to be blunt and honest, and they're assertive, though female Roosters accomplish this in a more sugar-coated round about way. Also, no one really wants to upset a Rooster, so they tend to get their way, because an upset Rooster can be petty, and has a tendency for childish temper tantrums.

Kaylee's inner Tiger might represent her longing for adventure and her desire to be brave, because she doesn't seem to feel like she is. She reflects a different side of the Tiger than does Simon and Zoe, hers is the emotional side of the tiger and the sincerity and care for loved ones, coupled with a version of the Rooster that doesn't really bother to hide any of it. Her tiger is also probably where her creative, artistic side comes from.

Not really sure about secret animals, Kaylee doesn't really have any secret sides. But, you could also interpret a secret animal as being what a person really is on the inside, and in that case, Kaylee is the pig, hands down, no question about it. The pig is the most trusting guileless animal of the entire zodiac, sensitive, generous, and easily taken in by sob stories. The pig is modest, and has a love of food and people, to the point that the pig would give away a fortune to someone they just met. The pig is also kind of a lusty animal. The pig may seem fragile and they're easily upset, but they have an inner source of strength that will help them bounce back from almost anything.

Like with Zoe's strongly projected inner tiger, Simon has the tiger's intensity, emotions, and ferocity towards protecting loved ones underneath the tiger's appearance of cool level-headedness. The tiger's thoughts are brilliant, calculating, and fluid. He also has a tendency to express defiance towards authority figures in his life (his father, now Mal). A Tiger is honest and doesn't hesitate to give his opinion. But the tiger can also be arrogant and vain. This probably reflects his insistence on being proper and his occasional tendency to be haughty towards some of the "lower people" he's found himself thrown in with, particularly Mal and Jayne.

The Water Tiger is a calmer sort of tiger, very soothing and sensible, and quite a bit more sensitive towards other people's feelings than the other tigers can be.

Ooh, actually I just noticed that if Simon was born between Oct. 20 and November 07, instead of a Pig he can be both an Inner Dog and a Scorpio in the Western signs, both of which fit pretty well. As an inner Dog, he has a desire to help people and make things right, which represents his wanting to be a good doctor. His inner Dog may be what makes him wary at first towards strangers. And Scorpios are very focused.

What's Simon's hidden side? Well, within reason, he apparently seems to want to let loose occasionally, like when he's with Kaylee and that one story about drunken nudity and singing. Maybe a Rat? Bright, affable, but somewhat restless, with a zest for life?

I do, though I can't find it. So I'm using google for now and what I can remember.

Kaylee's is odd. She's a Earth Rooster with an inner Tiger. I think maybe she's off by a year. She too seems more like a Monkey. Or maybe a Horse...

Depending on the years, Simon is either a Water Tiger (2490, and actually, this makes a lot of sense) or a Water Sheep (Fanciful nature could fit, but might be too much of a pushover). Pig as an inner animal is... Odd, but maybe it indicates he wants to indulge his feelings more, as the pig is very loving and generous and sensitive. It could also mean he might wanna indulge other things, too. Calling a guy a pig here can mean something pretty close to the way we use it too. ;)

River's signs have potential, she's either a Water Rat or a Wood Ox.

According to the Fireflywiki, Wash is the same year as Mal (so a dog), Jayne is a Tiger, and Book is a Rooster. Book's make sense, as the Rooster can be a bit of a preacher, the other two I'm less sure about.

I'll go into this deeper, but first, Castle, then possibly sleep...

Oh these are neat! I like your rabbit theory for Zoe, but you know it's possible her taking orders thing is only when Mal's the one giving them - she doesn't strike me as inclined to do so for anyone else.

I second clio that Simon's 2495, he and River never struck me as THAT far apart in age, but curious to see what you find. Where are you looking these up, do you have a book on Chinese astrology?

Double checked, I actually DID adjust for that. So if I'm doing this correctly, Inara should be Iron. Just be careful though, because I might not be right.

Hmm, actually, I think I might have the element for Inara's wrong. As I calculated it, Zoe and Mal represent the 8th cycle from now, Inara should be in the next cycle.

You might take my elements with a grain of salt, my calculations might be wrong.

The biggest problem with Zoe's is discipline and taking orders... Just doesn't fit with a Tiger, and a Monkey really isn't going to go for that much either, a monkey is kind of a self-serving sign. And, monkeys tend to be kind of bubbly/cheerful, and easily distracted/confused.

Inara is an Iron Ox (?!) with an inner Dog (?!)

Oxen are calm and methodical, and tend to be easy and supportive of everyone else, and hard and self-sacrificing of themselves. They are very conservative and traditional, I guess this would be Inara’s Buddhist beliefs and her faith in the Guild. They are modest, and lead simple lives and prefer comfortable and simply decorated homes, but can have a materialistic streak. They are independent, but very nurturing towards their families. They have a creative side, and enjoy the outdoors and nature, though they aren’t really the adventurous sort, they prefer to stay at home, with family and their hobbies. They are hardworking, trustworthy, and reliable, and the iron element makes them even more so. They don’t often openly express their emotions, and have a formidable inner strength and will. They have a terrible temper if angry. Their stubbornness can make it difficult for them to understand the emotions of the people around them.

With an inner dog, she wants to make a lot of friends, and longs to help people and right any wrongs she sees. She is also interested in keeping the peace, and is a bit of a perfectionist. She’s looking for love.

I guess it makes more sense than it initially sounds like, like Zoe's did. But I wouldn't have expected this. Though the "not understanding emotions around her" is just wrong, unless specifically this interpretation is when she's being especially stubborn.

I don’t consider either of these signs very feminine or stylish, and Inara tends to be fragile and vulnerable inside, hiding her tears. Rabbit as a secret animal might also be appropriate here, as it was with Zoe.

I think Zoe sounds perfect, actually, even the wood monkey bit (sounds funnier than it is). She does have quite a sly sense of humor, though it's often subdued. It comes out more often with Mal than with anyone else, though (even Wash). Playing dirty and bending rules isn't surprising either – being as she is a Browncoat and a thief. The only part that doesn't work is "less devoted to causes." Than Mal? Hmm. I don't know. Maybe.

Also, I didn't realize that Adam was nearly ten years older than Nathan. I guess you can tell now, in Chuck – maybe the beard disguised his age to a degree in Firefly. Re: Simon. I can see his being ten years older than River – it's only the scene from Safe that disrupts that. You could always pick Simon's age based on which personality matches him better. :-)

The Rabbit also tends to be withdrawn, and would rather be part of a group than lead, which would balance out this part of the tiger, and the outgoing monkey.

So, it looks like Zoe is a Wood Monkey (what) with a Tiger inner animal (slightly more sense, still strange). Gonna have to look at this closer to see if there's anything to it. Both signs tend to be fairly extroverted as I understood it; I'd peg Wash as more of a Monkey, and Tigers are somewhat melodramatic, if ferocious.

According to http://www.usbridalguide.com/special/chinesehoroscopes/Monkey.htm

Monkey characteristics are "Imaginative, responsible, humorous, witty, curious, clever, sneaky"

Wood Monkey: "Wood Monkeys are sharp, witty individuals. They are practical and sharp and possess a general knowledge of how things work. These Monkeys can deal with all types of people with ease and grace. They work hard and apply their practicality to their work." They are workaholics, and can often be too busy to stop and enjoy what happiness they've built for themselves. They also aren't as confident as they seem, and need encouragement.

Monkeys are pranksters though, and are willing to play dirty and bend the rules in their own favour.

The tiger, the inner animal Zoe sees herself as/projects herself as and wants to be may appear cool on the surface but underneath is a turmoil of emotion. The tiger is fierce fighter, though they are less devoted to causes than Dragons or Dogs. They are intelligent, intense, moody, and courageous.

Zoe might lock her monkey behind her tiger facade, and maybe Wash lets her loosen up and laugh at herself and not take herself so seriously.

But, tigers also tend to be competitive and chafe at being given orders. A tiger prefers to lead.

The only secret animal I could really suggest to nudge this more in the direction of Zoe is one that would help with discipline, and also her secret feminine side, seen when she’s with Wash or in Better Days. I’d say her secret animal for both discipline, serene appearance, and feminine expression might be a Rabbit, born between 5 and 7 am.

To be fair, Jayne's isn't the Blue Ray, but rather based on Adam's age compared to the rest of the cast.

Maybe Simon was a late bloomer? That could actually explain a lot.

Based on Sean Maher's age, the Fireflywiki puts him at 2495 instead of the Blue Ray 2490. I could do both, if you like.

I also like that you nitpick the Firefly BluRay for me so I don't have to buy a BluRay player. ;-)

Nothing to do with astrology and only to do with ages (sorry):

Jayne ten years older than everyone else? River ten years younger than Simon? Oh, Firefly BluRay, you make me doubt you. ;-)

The former's more believable than the latter. The latter could be true, I suppose, if the scene in Safe is a distorted memory of Simon's instead of an objective view of the past. I like Inara's being around 30. Some people take her as very young (I guess because Morena was very young), but I've never gotten that from her character. I like Kaylee's being a bit younger than everyone else, too.

I found a few other birthdays on my Serenity Blue Ray.

Zoe: February 15, 2484
Inara: Oct 14, 2489
Simon: November --, 2490
Kaylee: February 07, 2497

The other character's birthdays are unlisted.

River is given as having attended the Academy in 2515 to 2518, which means she was born in either 2500 or 2501.

I got a few other suggested years from Fireflywiki, based on the ages of the actors at the time of their playing the characters. Wash may also have been born in 2486, Jayne in 2477, and Book in 2460.

I'll tell you what that means for each character soon as I find the information. I might also take a guess at the year only birthday's inner and secret animals and from that predict month and hour of birth.

Virgos are motivated by service to others, kind of fitting for a Sergeant. And Libras have to have companionship (no pun intended) to balance themselves out, or they don't function well. Mal is such a wonderfully complicated character. Sigh. Still holding till he comes back.

Yeah, sorry about that, Serenityriddle. Little bit of juvenile humour. It's just, excepting Nandi, it kind of fits Mal in his role of chaste hero. Didn't mean to stereotype other Virgos.

I never knew that Mal and I share a birthday. Several years off, but the day is the same. Hmm. interesting.

Sure is! And I can't tell you how amused I was both by how fitting that is, and the fact that, well, he's a VIRGO. *snorted laughter*

What fun! I don't know Chinese astrology that well, but you sure hit the nail on the head with his character. In Western astrology he would be a Virgo/Libra cusp, right? And prone to hard work, single mindedness for a cause, a crusade for justice, a sharp tongue and a sharp mind, and a desperate need for companionship. Joss may not have known what he was creating when they gave Mal that birthday, but the Universe supplied the rest.