Monday, March 7, 2011

Does Jayne wear a Union suit for pajamas?

We know Mal doesn't. But just how western is this setting?

I have inexplicable questions about underwear! Boxers? Briefs?

I am most interested in your opinions!


Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:01 AM


Good point. I was kinda thinking that there might be concerns about support or getting caught in the engine if Kaylee's unders got too complicated, but it's not like she's generally wearing something over them.

Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:27 AM


Wasn't Kaylee wearing lacy frillies in "Out of Gas" (though she wasn't part of the crew then)?

One thing Mal definitely forgets is that Kaylee is, first and foremost, a woman, with a woman's needs and desires. One of these is to feel feminine and pretty, and that's hard to do if most of the time you're wearing overalls. So onboard ship she'd go with practical but pretty. It is at that point that my knowledge of ladies' pretties is no longer adequate, and the lady posters would have to take over from hereon. :)

Saturday, March 12, 2011 4:40 PM


Bras... Yes, we have neglected bras. :)

Saturday, March 12, 2011 3:14 PM


Very interesting musings on clothes. Have you thought that even traditional clothes might not be made from traditional fibers like cotton, flax, wool, etc? Even now it's hard to find 100% cotton without a smidgen of polyester to make it less wrinkly but they may exist on the Rim (or cotton etc. may have been genetically changed to make it less wrinkly)

It just happens that my state, North Carolina, once a leader in traditional textiles is now a leader in non-traditional textile research. Here's a general article about the textile research out of a local newspaper from last year about the textile research done at N.C. State University (I say this as a proud North Carolinian. I went to the University of North Carolina and State is our sworn enemy!)

Also, Jayne is either commando or union suit. It's all or nothing with him. Mal is solid boxers, Wash garish colored boxers, Simon and Book conservative briefs.

Kaylee is a thong or barely there with a serviceable bra and maybe one semi flirty for special dates. Zoe is sports bra all the way and not very expensive bikinis. Inara is fluff all the way. Luxury fabrics and everything a man could imagine and in all colors.

Friday, March 11, 2011 4:09 PM


Thanks GR. :)

All kinds of research, all of it helpful. I think it's fair that if anyone wanted to say boxer shorts for Mal, fine, jockey shorts for the horses, also fine.

For Jayne, anything from boxers to briefs to au natural would be believable.

But both of them may/probably have union suits or long johns for cold weather or anywhere they might have to camp out and there's some exposure.

Those are the two who have the most in question about they wear I think.

Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:25 PM


Googling "underwear for horseback riding" does get some hits! I also found this, which addresses many soreness problems as stemming from a saddle that's the wrong size or shape, incorrect posture, and/or clothing with thick seams.

Thursday, March 10, 2011 12:01 PM


Well the reason I asked was because in the research you presented me, knights on horseback used to wear padding, though arguably maybe that was more because of the armor thing.

I don't believe padding for the cavalry is a western trope or WWI trope, which are the two Mal draws from. But, in the future it could still be possible.

Hmm, a vibration technology could break up solid clumps (mud or food). liquids could theoretically be vacuumed out, though pigment stains would still be hard to break up. Bacteria can be killed either through heating or freezing, radiation, soap, or distilled or saline water. The alcohol would probably be the easiest on hand for the crew, and suddenly this is another reason for the existence of Kaylee's inter-engine brew.

Maybe she adds fruit juice to the stuff they actually drink for flavour and colour, and keeps the rest in reserve.

More later. :) Future tech speculation!

Thursday, March 10, 2011 11:37 AM


I didn't mean the sheets can be washed without water - they take conventional care. I was speculating about laundry facilities on spaceships, and the fabrics that might be created in the future. I was imagining something that maybe tumbles the clothes around but inundates them with something like microwaves that might dissolve soil, kill bacteria, etc. And then I was imagining fabrics engineered to be especially compatible with that machinery.

I haven't been on a horse enough to be able to speculate if riders would want/need padded shorts like some bike riders wear. It is a different kind of sitting/riding, and horseback riders seem to need to move around in the saddle more than bikers do. So I guess what would really be desirable is a layer between the clothing and skin so that the seams and the folds of the fabric don't end up being irritating. Sort of like socks - it's ok to go without socks at times, but the more miles you hike, the more you require good socks. A wrongly placed seam can debilitate a long-distance hiker or runner.

This also has me thinking that some Rim worlds with the proper ecosystems might be very sought-after for farming the raw materials for certain textiles.

Wednesday, March 9, 2011 11:23 AM


Without water? That would be handy. I only remember them being particularly durable.

You remind me of another point. Mal, rode horses back on the ranch, might be in the habit of buying with that in mind. Form fitted shorts with padding in the seat? Possible? Not?

Wednesday, March 9, 2011 10:36 AM


Here is a link to the sheets with the silver woven in - note they are in all colors:

I investigated them, but they aren't as soft as the sheets I ended up buying. But check the reviews, some folks love them!

I'm also thinking that it would come in handy, in space where you have to bring along your own water, to have fabrics that can be cleaned without soap and water.

And we already have techy fabrics like the ones with sunscreen and/or bug repellent built in for a certain number of washes.

Of course, how widely spread and inexpensive the technology is, that's another question.

Wednesday, March 9, 2011 5:45 AM


Yep, that's a union suit. And now that I've brought it up, it's almost impossible to not imagine the more western boys on the crew as having worn them at some time, isn't it?

That's true, circumstances. Maybe this also explains Jayne remaining mostly dressed in OiS - could be his bunk was cold. Maybe Kaylee was upset with him and was having his climate control blasting cold air. Probably wouldn't be the first time.

The idea about wearing clean shorts on Sunday is also a good one. Jayne is all about trying to not give God a reason to smite him.

GR was telling me there's been some research into using silver thread in clothing to improve durability, so silver cat-suits may yet be possible. On the other hand, it's hard, if not impossible to imagine that production and sale of such clothing could ever be cost effective. Future clothes and at least some types of fabric stay the same it is. The most deviation we might ever see is "synthetic cotton" or other cheap knock-offs of the actual fabric.

Wednesday, March 9, 2011 4:59 AM


For my two-pennyworth I think the underwear depends on circumstances. In my current fic I've got all the boys wearing long underwear because of the cold weather on Ithaca, which I presume is a union suit - the one piece with the escape hatch in the bottom?

Otherwise Jayne goes commando - it's easier, and he likes the feeling of freedom. Although I love the idea of his Ma having been such an influence that he wears clean shorts on a Sunday, even when he doesn't have to. As for nightwear ... maybe he just fell asleep in OIS before he could strip. I see him sleeping naked (hang on a sec while I enjoy that particular image), but with a pair of ratty cotton long sleep pants to pull on when he feels hungry. They probably have holes in inappropriate places, and Mal has told him more than once to buy some new ones, but Jayne has been conveniently deaf over it. The holes also mean he can scratch when he needs to ...

Wash was definitely in boxers - just as bright and garish as his shirts, but at least everyone didn't see them.

Mal's a shorts man too, although he's been known to wear long silk drawers on occasion. Or a dress.

You know, this whole discussion is fascinating because it shows just how little clothes are likely to change in the future. If you look at any film set in the future up until a couple of decades ago we were all supposed to be in silver catsuits that didn't have any kind of fastening, with goldfish bowls on our heads. I for one am glad we haven't got there - I look terrible in silver - and from this point in time I'd say things aren't going to change all that much.

Now, I'm going back to my images of Jayne in his sleep pants and Mal in his drawers ...

Oh, and somebody needs to write the ficlet of little!Jayne and his Ma's visitors!

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 3:20 PM


GR: Jayne as a kid in a Union suit is amazing. Someone needs to draw this.

Oh. You're all looking at me. :)

Yeah, as an adult he might have some two, maybe that he keeps in reserve if he's tracking on a cold planet. I could see that.

2x2: So like I was thinking, even though clearly Jayne is not naked at night there's still alternatives. I don't see Jayne wearing pajama bottoms, does anyone else think so? T-shirt and briefs might be something Whedon would have Jayne wander around unexpectedly at night in. That way you could have the reaction when someone sees him. Crew interaction and reaction is always fun.

He probably has some T-shirts he stole off of whoever he was mugging, I could see that.

It occurs to me that mugging someone and taking their clothes would be an easy way to keep them from going to the police. <_< Wow, Mal and Jayne must be a bad influence on me.

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 10:44 AM


I'm guessing he grew up wearing union suits. They can be pajamas alone in the summer and a warmth layer in the winter. I'm working under the assumption that the Cobbs weren't destitute, but they didn't have a lot of disposable income - and a union suit would work better than separates for Mama Cobb to buy a few sizes larger than the kids need and let them "grow into" them. The one piece might be cheaper than briefs/shorts and a tee shirt.

With Jayne in general, I think economics and functionality would drive his choices. If he spent a lot of time as a tracker outdoors, the union suit would be better than camping out in warm climates with a lot of exposed skin.

Plus, he probably wears whatever his mom sends him. And if he liked them when he was 8, Mrs. Cobb might still purchase the same stuff. Maybe every other year on his birthday he gets a new one :)

I can also see him appropriating things he "found" in his travels. Cause he's gross.

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:51 AM


Give me time, AS, and I'll find some minutia so mind bogglingly frivolous that jaws will drop! And then, they will drop AGAIN.

Your speculations on Jayne have suddenly made me imagine a young child Jayne in only his skivvies while the family has company, and his poor, poor mother trying to get Jayne to behave and please put some pants on. Very quickly, the underwear finally comes off! Jayne is free, liberated, and has been ever since.

2x2: Oh, you're right. Jayne does wear a shirt. Well, that solves that. Why am I disappointed?

River... I hesitate to say, but she would have to borrow, at least at first. As a girl, her family was fairly modern, but upper class. We know that River wears dancers shorts at times. She may or may not wear more than that.

Persephone is clearly backwards, and wears victorian styles. Knee breeches, tights, and for banning, petticoats. Atherton prefers the core styles, particularly the orient influence, and perhaps this could be regular underwear (probably briefs) or even possibly a loincloth in the style of traditional China or Japan.

Atherton might also be wearing a girdle. Not because of the asian influence, but for all his faults, he does have good posture.

Badger is just moneyed enough he can afford the cheap normal stuff. I would guess boxers.

Magistrate Higgins? >_> Cod piece. *whispered*

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:03 AM


I think I can safely say we're going over every inch of this show now. :D

Byte, as a brief overview, I pretty much agree with your imaginings as they stand. Although all the crew probably have their moments, Jayne is a toss-up--probably goes 'commando' mostly, it being more convenient and sounding macho. Or Radiant Cobb might have drilled the downhome value of wearing underwear in the company of others into him at an early age. With Jayne, you never know.
Hey, this could all reflect character development!

But you did forget River.

While we're at it, let's extend this; what about Badger? Since he's reputable, roots in the community and all.

What about Mr. Miss-Persephone-Pageant--what underwear indicates lorship?
Banning Miller (does she need it)? Magistrate Higgins(does it make him manly)?

Oh, hey. What about Ath? I can call him Ath, can't I?

I have a new mental image for my Toastmasters speech now. :0

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 4:43 AM


This has not escaped me... But I also don't particularly want to dwell on the reasons Jayne might not be fully dressed in his bunk. I guess that makes him getting tooled up so fast even more impressive if he has to deal with clothes. Other times I could imagine him not bothering with the clothes, just walking out with all his... guns hangin' out. Not around Mal though. Definitely not around Zoe.

With Mal, I have done some preliminary discussion and I think boxers are probably the most likely, cotton boxer shorts were introduced in WWI, and we all know how WWI inspired some of the wardrobe of the Independents. But also this may depend on how deep his cowboy streak goes, he might wear the bottom half of some long johns. But probably not when he's in his formals, it'd be too tight.

Fabrics are also questionable, considering the lack of availability we might expect.

Wash is probably a boxer guy.

Simon and Book are probably the only guys who might maybe wear briefs, but it's not certain.

Zoe wears a high cut bikini. Kaylee may wear either boy cuts or thongs if she's flirty. Inara probably wears silks and lace in designer styles, in addition to lingerie and some fetish apparel she might have - but she also probably has stuff she wears just for comfort, as well.

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 1:01 AM


Maybe jockeyshorts. They do great things for the backside... :D Otoh, wouldn't be surprised if he went commando.... saves time in certain situations....

Tuesday, March 8, 2011 12:29 AM


Does he even change? In Objects in Space we see him sleeping in his t-shirt... I can't recall what was on his lower half though :o)

Monday, March 7, 2011 10:09 PM


Uh,Byte? Clearly someone has had a little too much of the engine brew-- again.

I...can honestly say I have never considered this. Anyone? Don't all talk at once, now.

Here goes. I can totally see Jayne in long underwear. But I don't know if he'd bother other than for the cold....

Singing helps everything. "Come on now/ don't be shy/ let's talk about the underwear on a firefly!"

Okay. Fast gettaway in progress. Now.


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