researching Firefly by EricaMarsh

BLUE SUN ROOM

researching Firefly

POSTED BY: ERICAMARSH
UPDATED: Sunday, August 14, 2005 18:57
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Monday, February 28, 2005 9:18 AM

I'm working on an essay about female sexuality in Firefly and was wondering if I could get some suggestins. I'm re-watching everything and trying to catch all of those little nuances between Inara and Kaylee, but I'm not sure if I've got them all.

I'm going to start posting portions of my research on http://researchingfirefly.blogspot.com/ .
Feel free to come and critique/correct it as you see fit.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 9:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:
I'm working on an essay about female sexuality in Firefly and was wondering if I could get some suggestins. I'm re-watching everything and trying to catch all of those little nuances between Inara and Kaylee, but I'm not sure if I've got them all.

I'm going to start posting portions of my research on http://researchingfirefly.blogspot.com/ .
Feel free to come and critique/correct it as you see fit.

Nusances between Kaylee and Inara ? Not sure what you're gettin at, but the whole female sexuality in Firefly has my attention.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 28, 2005 9:46 AM

ERICAMARSH

DO you remember the scene where Inara braids Kaylee's hair? That's sexual, very sexy if you ask me. Also, the ways in which Inara is more 'at ease' when providing services for a woman than for the men. Anything remotely sexual you can think of.

I hope to present at the Slayage Conference in 2006. http://www.slayage.tv/SCW/index.htm

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:12 AM

ZEEK

I don't think there is really all that much to go one between Kaylee and Inara. There's the "hey you" line in the first episode. Then the hair braiding scene in Train Job. Other than that I can't think of much between them.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:30 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
DO you remember the scene where Inara braids Kaylee's hair? That's sexual, very sexy if you ask me.

Hm, while I won't dispute that that is a sexy scene, I don't know if the characters think so or if it's just me. Inara and Kaylee seem more like close friends or sisters to me than anything else. Inara seems to me to be equally at home with male or female clients, pretty much. If she says otherwise to a client, that might be so, or it might be Inara being a professional and making that client feel more important. Her occupation is all about atmosphere, about living a daydream where the client is the most precious person in the 'verse.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:32 AM

ERICAMARSH

okay, as far as female sexuality in the show, what are your takes? The diverse relationships and sexual encounters had be each femal character is very unique.

What are your ideas about Inara? Kaylee's engine room scene in "Out of Gas" or Zoe and Wash's sexual relationship?

Each woman tends to display a unique 'brand' of sexuality.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:35 AM

ERICAMARSH

Can I quote you about Inara's occupation? I really liked the way you phrased it.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:50 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:
okay, as far as female sexuality in the show, what are your takes? The diverse relationships and sexual encounters had be each femal character is very unique.

What are your ideas about Inara? Kaylee's engine room scene in "Out of Gas" or Zoe and Wash's sexual relationship?

Each woman tends to display a unique 'brand' of sexuality.

Agreed, the relationships are as different as the characters.

Inara - she said it best, when talking about the dating policy for Companions - "it's...complicated." Beyond that I really can't say, since I have no idea what it'd be like to try to separate sex-as-profession from sex-as-personal-expression. All the whoring I've done is strictly metaphorical. :)

Kaylee seems pretty straightforward, by contrast. Engines make her horny. She's completely guileless, just shy with Simon because she's so crushed-out. But she seems blissfully free of hangups about sex itself.

One relationship worth mentioning is Zoe/Mal - to me there seems to be zero sexual tension there, but to Wash, who's jealous of how close they are, there's that whole territorial thing that leads him to believe, or fear, that there is. Zoe, like Kaylee, appears to be comfortable with it all.

River - woo, just thinking of the concept makes me feel like a child molester, ick. There's something to be said about the sexuality - very perverse domination kind of stuff - of her violation by the Alliance, but I don't even want to go there.

And definitely don't leave out our Mrs. Reynolds. She wields sex - or at least seduction - like a sledgehammer. A sledgehammer wrapped in velvet. Or something like that. But for all we know she could be a virgin, if she just uses it to lure people close enough to kiss into unconsciousness.

Overall, for a sci-fi show, Firefly seems to have a very mature view of female sexuality. (Male, too, for that matter, but you didn't really ask). :) Interesting subject. I'd be curious to hear how your research turns out.

Quote:
Can I quote you about Inara's occupation? I really liked the way you phrased it.

Sure! (Blush!)

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:58 AM

ERICAMARSH

Thank you, you seem to get what I'm talking at. Most of my topic is still in its theoretical workings inside my confused and crowded head.

As disturbing as it sounds, River is a teenager in the show and, as most teenagers I knew, should be interested in sex. The whole violation metaphor brings a new light on the persepective if you view the blue-gloved men as rapists, but that's almost too psychological for me-I'm an English major. But I hadn't thought of River until you pointed it out, thanks.

I should have a working draft finished by late March/early April. I'll post it both here and on my blog.

As for this message board's success, I'm being pushed in new directions and forced to define my motives=very successful! This is what I hoped for.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 11:09 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:
The whole violation metaphor brings a new light on the persepective if you view the blue-gloved men as rapists, but that's almost too psychological for me-I'm an English major.

Agreed, and I suspect that it was also not Joss' intent for this to be a rape metaphor - I was just trying to cover all the major female characters (plus Saffron, since she's one of my favorites). My take on River's sexuality is that she'd be best off to avoid it all until her other problems are dealt with.

On edit: I had a look at your blog/profile - cool! I too am a grad student (but unlike you, an old fart, and in Computer Science). I see you have Terry Goodkind on your favorites list - I've read all his stuff, and if you ever did want to do research into utterly confused, sick sexuality, there's plenty of material there without having drag it into Firefly. This set against the main characters' almost completely platonic, borderline saccharine romance. That Goodkind stuff is a wild ride, for sure.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 11:31 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by SamWibatt:
On edit: I had a look at your blog/profile - cool! I too am a grad student (but unlike you, an old fart, and in Computer Science). I see you have Terry Goodkind on your favorites list - I've read all his stuff, and if you ever did want to do research into utterly confused, sick sexuality, there's plenty of material there without having drag it into Firefly. This set against the main characters' almost completely platonic, borderline saccharine romance. That Goodkind stuff is a wild ride, for sure.

Goodkind is a whole other can of worms. Goodkind's been my favorite since 95, I was 13. I was within a breath of doing my thesis on Gookind, but decided I loved the books too much to write about it. It is my joy book.

Speaking of Goodkind, did you finish Chainfire yet?

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Monday, February 28, 2005 11:40 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:
Speaking of Goodkind, did you finish Chainfire yet?

I did. Not bad, but not his best. The more Goodkind makes his books vehicles for his personal politics, the less I like them - I agree with some of what he has to say philosophically, but his narrative quality goes out the window when he feels like he has to make an Important Point. I could barely finish Naked Empire because of that. My guess is that he got a bop on the snoot for that book - readers complaints and all - and Chainfire has a bit of a wound-licking feel to it because here we find Richard braving all to prove to the world that he's Right. I've done a little bit of creative writing and lit-crit study, and the one lesson I took to heart was that what's important is not the author but the story. IMO Goodkind ignored that much to his own detriment. Still, I think Chainfire was a decent read.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 11:56 AM

ERICAMARSH

I agree. When i started reading The Pillars of Creation I had to check the cover to make sure I was still reading Goodkind. I think I actually hated the book until the last fifty pages.

I just started Chainfire, but I'm kind of upset that he took Kahlan out of the action. She's why I love the books! I'm reading it between course materials, so I'm still only about 150 pages into it. I hope to finish before the end of the semester.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 1:48 PM

SAMWIBATT

Oh, jeez - I'm sorry, I assumed you'd read the book. Looks like I didn't do any real spoiling. Yikes, I'll be more careful & ask next time.

Heh, sorry to hijack the thread, too.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 3:13 PM

ERICAMARSH

You're fine. If I were REALLY into it, finishing it wouldn't be a semester long thing. I would put off homework, even if the homework consists of watching Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, to read Chainfinre if I really wanted to. I just haven't been sucked into it as much as I was with the first six books.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 5:55 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:
DO you remember the scene where Inara braids Kaylee's hair? That's sexual, very sexy if you ask me. Also, the ways in which Inara is more 'at ease' when providing services for a woman than for the men. Anything remotely sexual you can think of.

I hope to present at the Slayage Conference in 2006. http://www.slayage.tv/SCW/index.htm

Dang, this thread took off before I could put my $.02 in. Oh well, here goes anyway.

The Kayle/Inara thing seems to me more 'sisterly' than sexual. Kaylee clearly looks up to Inara, in part because of the lavish and exotic world Inara works in. Kaylee's from a backwater world, and cherishes every bit of 'fancy' she can get. ( See Shindig )

Per the hair braiding thing..I've always found it relaxing when women brush or braid each other's hair. In fact, much like Mal, I wouldn't mind Inara doing my hair either.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, February 28, 2005 6:29 PM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
In fact, much like Mal, I wouldn't mind Inara doing my hair either.

Hehe, when I was younger and single and less bald I had a foot and a half of ponytail partly for this kind of reason.

Good point about Kaylee looking up to the "fancy" world, and how that affects her relationship to Inara. She does seem to crave the finery - even if her idea of it (that awesome ruffly dress in Shindig, the decorative plate in Safe) looks cheap to the stuck-up rich folk. I just *loved* how she ended up being a big hit at the ball by talking about engines.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 6:52 PM

REGINAROADIE

Well, I havn't really thought too much about female sexuality in FIREFLY (I'm more interested in Joss's trademark dialogue), but here are some of my initial thoughts off the top of my head.

The relationship between Wash and Zoe I find to be an interesting relationship as depicted on tv. There have been interracial relationships on tv, but I've never seen one fictional or in real life, where it's white dude/black chick. Usually it's the other way around, which is evident by hundreds of sites of white women into black men. This whole dynamic of the woman being the agressive type while the male is more passive is interesting enough. But the fact that she's a deep ghetto brown while he's as white bread as you can get adds a more complex dimension to their relationship.

Personally, I don't think race is a factor in the FIREFLY universe. I think something like racism has vanished 500 years in the future, and that most of the human struggles and biases are of class and a vertical nature (as seen in 'Serenity' ,'Shindig', 'Jaynestown' and 'Out of Gas'). And that the reason Zoe married Wash is the same reason Jessica Rabbit sticks by Roger. "He makes me laugh."

You seem to have Inara covered, although I think the hair scene with Kaylee was more along the lines of friend giving another friend a perm in prep for a big date, as opposed to a pseudo-lesbian moment. With Kaylee, she's innocence personified. And in a weird way, she's so innocent that sex doesn't seem to phase her that much. Maybe she lived in a really sexually liberal environment to really be phased by sex. And that Simon is a catalyst for her to finally deal with the emotions and depression that comes with sex that she's been ignoring all her life.

As for River, I agree that she's more of a rape victim than a person with a developed sense of sexuality. But I imagine if the series went on, and she learned to cope with her mental rape, that she would become more confident in herself and learn to love in the erotic sense, like any rape victim. Right now, I think she get's off more on the wavelength and emotions of sex, rather than the act itself, as seen in 'Objects in Space'.

And that's all I got. Hope it helps you out.

"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."

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Monday, February 28, 2005 8:23 PM

COPPERHEAD

Ericamarch-

I was pretty exited to read your post considering that I finished a paper on Firefly last semester that I also hope to present at the next Slayage conference. I'd love to see it packed with presentations on Firefly. Having said that, I think that you're onto a really solid topic here. It sounds like the argument that you're getting at (and has been echoed in some of the other posts) is that the female characters on Firefly are comfortable with their own sexuality. That's not a simple argument considering how many characters (and individuals) aren't. Correct me if I'm misreading. If that's the point that you're going with, I think that you have a strong basis for multiple arguments here.

I agree with your assessment that the hair scene between Kaylee and Inara can be read as a sexually charged experience. The cinematography (sp?) in the shots between the two of them in that scene reinforces it, and Mal's question about Inara "servicing" crewmembers lends you textual support. In terms of an academic reading, it doesn't matter a bit if the characters think that it is or if the writers/director intended the subtext to be there, you can still argue for it.

If you're looking at how each of these women is comfortable with her own sexuality, you might consider defining how each of them expresses it. This applies to both their sexual relationships and their everyday non-sexual relationships and activities. You could make the argument that their sexuality is what allows them to exist as strong, confident, empowered women. It's a strong feminist argument.

Something that you might consider is contrasting the comfort in their sexuality that the female characters demonstrate throughout the series with the comfort/discomfort of the male characters. What would a comparision of the way Mal and Inara view their own sexuality yield? Or Jayne and Kaylee? Zoe and Wash? Kaylee and Simon? YoSafBridg and Jayne? It might not be the direction you want to take your research, but it might give you a concrete structure to work with.

Other directions you might not want to go include comparing the female sexuality in Firefly with the female sexuality in other Whedon series. Are there similarities between the relationship that Inara and Kaylee have and the relationship that Willow and Tara have or Willow and Kennedy have? This one might be a stretch, but it does give you the oppurtunity to ground your research in the ample material already available in Buffy Studies. Actually, that might be a disadvantage since it means a lot more reading. Take it as you will.

As for River, I tend to read her as an innocent. I think that the scene in "Out of Gas" where she experiences the sexual relationship between Wash and Zoe but runs from it demonstrates that. Similiarly, the cut scene from "Our Mrs. Reynolds" where she tells Simon that she wants to get married shows her complete lack of understanding in these things. I agree with everyone else who's posted that discussing River and sexuality just seems icky and wrong. The rape metaphor might give you a strong reading, but I'm not certain how much support you'll find for it. I suspect that it's something that might have been developed later in the series, but as it stands, there isn't enough there for me.

Overall, I think you've got a lot of directions to go and a lot of possibilities. This is a nice take on Firefly for a research project, but I suspect that you're going to wind up with too much material to tackle in a single paper. I'm thinking . . . disertation? Did I spell that right? Oh well. Regardless of how you decide to narrow your focus, I think that you can draw on some of the feminist readings of Buffy as a means of support and a framework for your paper. It'll give you a grounding in the previous research and let you enter the conversation. I hope this helps some.

I'm just wondering, you mention that you're in a Buffy Studies class. Is it the course at Middle Tenn. State or is there another one that I don't know about?

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Monday, February 28, 2005 8:37 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I think a more interesting discussion would be the role of women in the Firefly “society.” It seems that most scifi futuristic films depict a society where women are considered the equal to men, as sort of an aspect of the enlightened culture of the future. But in Firefly there is a much more complicated social role played by women. Women really seem to be somewhat objectified by society. In the “backwoods” planets women seem to play a subservient role to men, and the existence of Companions as a legitimate social position seems to suggest a society where women are even objectified in the more advanced and presumably enlightened “core” planets.

This is a little off topic but I think it would interesting to do an aerodynamic analysis of Serenity. If I had the time, I might try to schematize Serenity and build an IR model so that I can fly it in a simulated environment. In the first episode while running from the Reavers they did a “full burn in atmo.” I suppose that means that they turned on their interstellar or interplanetary propulsion system. And Zoe made some technobable warning concerning a “blowback” or whatnot. But I was thinking what she should have been concerned with is how many pieces the ship might have ended up in. If this propulsion can provide accelerations such that interplanetary flight could be achieved in a matter of days, then you’re talking about some pretty horrendous velocities. Quickly accelerating to those kinds of velocities in a dense earth-like atmosphere would be something like superheating a tomato and hurling it against a brick wall. Nothing we could make today would survive that kind of stress. If I had an IR model I might could play around with some coefficients and see what kind of properties the haul material of Serenity would need to have. Of course it would all be quite academic and of no practical use, but just for fun.

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Monday, February 28, 2005 10:59 PM

EMMA

What a fantastic idea, you have inspired me to register to the forum - only my second ever!

I have written a lot of papers on fantasy and sci-fi over the years and it is always nice to see when others do the same.

I think the point about rape of River is particularly interesting, but you are right, it verges on psychoanalysis which is possible if you are writing an interdisciplinary paper.

What theories are you incorporating into it? You might find Foucault helpful, particularly The History of Sexuality. It sounds a bit poncy but he wrote some interesting things about sexuality and power relationships and influenced queer theory.

I wish European and British universities gave modules on Whedon

Ah well
PS I hope I have typed this properly, I am not very good on these things!

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 1:38 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal

Quote:
Originally posted by SamWibatt:
our Mrs. Reynolds. [...] But for all we know she could be a virgin, if she just uses it to lure people close enough to kiss into unconsciousness.

She was married for extended periods to Durran, Monty... so not so much with the virginity.

Erica, if you haven't yet, you can also go ask the Buffistas http://buffistas.org/ for some ideas, tho last time I was there they didn't get that Inara may see sex like your typical male: "Sex with beautiful people I choose, and they pay ME? Where do I sign up?".
--
I am Jack's username
Have good sex.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 3:55 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by Copperhead:
Ericamarsh-

I was pretty exited to read your post considering that I finished a paper on Firefly last semester that I also hope to present at the next Slayage conference. I'd love to see it packed with presentations on Firefly.

By opening up the conference to everything Whedonverse, the cooridinators hope to bring in more topics on Firefly, Whedon scripts for movies, and the forthcoming Serenity.

I love your comments. I'll admit, I've opened my topic way up to discuss it on the message boards. I would hate for someone else to write it. But I also wanted to open up my mind to new possible topics. You're right, I could pretty much go any direction I want with this. I may just get three or four papers out of this topic. THat's what all the big academics do.

Quote:
Originally posted by Copperhead:
I'm just wondering, you mention that you're in a Buffy Studies class. Is it the course at Middle Tenn. State or is there another one that I don't know about?

Yes, I go to Middle TN State. This semester the class has been opened up to a study of Joss Whedon. But the best part is that we get to watch Buffy, Angel, and Firefly in class! I'm studying with Dr. Lavery and was just named associate editor of the Encyclpedia of Buffy Studies found on the Slayage website. For those of you who don't know where that is:
http://slayage.tv

I would love to talk to you about your topic. E-mail me more and I may be able to pull some strings and get our papers on the same panel. I'm supposed to work for the conference as well.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 4:05 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think a more interesting discussion would be the role of women in the Firefly “society.” It seems that most scifi futuristic films depict a society where women are considered the equal to men, as sort of an aspect of the enlightened culture of the future. But in Firefly there is a much more complicated social role played by women. Women really seem to be somewhat objectified by society. In the “backwoods” planets women seem to play a subservient role to men, and the existence of Companions as a legitimate social position seems to suggest a society where women are even objectified in the more advanced and presumably enlightened “core” planets.

Very interesting. I'm writing my thesis on Octavia E. Butler's Parable novels and this falls right in line with her 'forecast' for the future. I originally directed my focus on post-apocolyptic sexuality in television, film, and sci-fi literature. My director, Dr. Elyce Helford, was excited about the idea and sent me reading everything she could think of. I spent 90% of my holiday break reading female sci-fi writers.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 4:10 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I almost went to MTSU. A long time ago.

I can't believe that Joss Whedon is being studied in college courses. He isn't even dead yet.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 4:12 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
What theories are you incorporating into it? You might find Foucault helpful, particularly The History of Sexuality. It sounds a bit poncy but he wrote some interesting things about sexuality and power relationships and influenced queer theory.

I wish European and British universities gave modules on Whedon

Yes, I'm currently trying to navigate Foucault in my research and bibliography class. I've taken way more notes than I probably need.

British universities? Now I'm knew to television studies, but from what Dr. Lavery has told me so far, and by looking at who publishes the best television studies books, Europeans should have an advantage. Most of the 'great' conferences and workshops take place in Europe, especially Britain.

MTSU is pretty much one of the only schools that will offer popular culture studies in television, and that is undocumented. I say it only because we have a couple of instructors who are more interested in television right now than anything else. Unfortunately, most of the popular culture instructors are retiring in the coming year.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 4:14 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I almost went to MTSU. A long time ago.

I can't believe that Joss Whedon is being studied in college courses. He isn't even dead yet.

Can you believe I almost went to Florida? MTSU was the only non-Floridian school I applied to, and its where I ended up. Go figure.

MTSU hosted the Slayage Conference last summer and will host the next one in 2006.

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 5:57 AM

ERICAMARSH

Quote:
Originally posted by EricaMarsh:

Can you believe I almost went to Florida?

I remind myself of my earlier comment as I watch snow fall out my bedroom window...

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 6:49 AM

SAMWIBATT

Quote:
Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
She was married for extended periods to Durran, Monty... so not so much with the virginity.

Good point - clearly I need to watch through the series again, if I'm forgetting things like this. :)

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Tuesday, March 1, 2005 7:54 AM

MAUGWAI

A couple of scenes jumped out at me when I was perusing this thread.

The Kaylee strawberry eating scene is very sensual. She practially orgasms at the taste of fruit, something rare in the society around her. So Kaylee is out for pleasure, just like with Bester. She doesn't see sexual experiences as anything more than a search for pleasure.

"War Stories" tells us so much about Inara's sexuality. I don't just mean the lesbian scene, although the speech she gives the councilor about "being yourself around men" is certainly telling. But her reaction to Jayne's obvious lust is also interesting to note. She rolls her eyes because in her line of work she is discreet and graceful, and Jayne represents sex without ceremony.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:57 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

Ancient thread, but interesting topic.

I wouldn't think of River as a rape victim. She's a lobotomy victim, no sexuality seems implied at all anywhere.

But you can find sexuality there, in a place people seem even less comfortable discussing. "I'm in the family way"? She adores her older brother, and he's the steady rock of her life. She'll grow out of it when she's better and less child-like, but that's what I see there.

The idea may be squicky, but remember that emotionally she's (been reduced to) something like a child.

Call me when anyone int'resting shows up.

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