<SPOILER> Questions about the BDM <SPOILER> by AnthonyT

BLUE SUN ROOM

Questions about the BDM

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 7, 2005 06:35
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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 4:49 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

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"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 4:53 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hi all,

I created this thread to ask questions about the BDM.

My question is: At the end of the movie, I seem to recall that Mal was getting on some kind of gangway, and the Operative shoots him in the back.

I seem to recall Mal complaining about being shot in the back.

What I do not recall, is why Mal doesn't die when shot in the back.

(Or at least exhibit extreme injury.)

I have felt, ever since I watched the screening, that I missed something important in this scene.

Any help?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 6:34 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Perhaps I am mis-remembering the scene?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 6:57 PM

GTMAN8503

In hidden text, just in case:

Select to view spoiler:

Mal gets hit by a laser blast, or something, in that scene. You can actually see it in the second U.S. trailer if you pause around the 1:45 mark. It seems as if The Operative is using a weapon that is just designed to stun instead of kill. That would be my explanation.

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 7:13 PM

EMBERS

yeah:

Select to view spoiler:

remember at the beginning of the movie when the operative forces that Alliance doctor to 'fall on his sword' by stunning him with some kind of shot to the back?
He does the same thing to Mal, but it doesn't stun Mal because of some shrapnel or shell fragment or something, some old wound, he explains which protected that nerve center...
of course I"ll need to see the movie several more times to remember exactly what was said...

I hope that helps

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 8:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Select to view spoiler:

Thanks for the input, all. I'm not sure I can groove with those explanations, though.

If it's a stun gun, and Mal doesn't get stunned, that ought to strike the Operative as wicked odd. Thus, it makes no sense for it to be a surprise later when the Operative does his pressure point doo-hicky and it doesn't work.

I don't see Joss writing to such contrary purposes, so that explanation doesn't make sense.

And if I recall, the guy at the beginning of the movie was 'stunned' with a pressure point thing, too.

So anyhow, if it's a stun gun, and it doesn't stun Mal, the Operative has advanced warning about his pressure point technique.

If it's a laser gun, and it doesn't hurt Mal, we need some kind of explanation.

This scene continues to bug me, because I can't reconcile it.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 8:33 PM

2BY2

I think we're far enough down that I can forego the spoiler tags.

Basically, it goes like this. Mal is shot in the back with a stun laser, shocking him for a moment, mostly just to get his attention, like a tazer. A dialogue commences, giving Mal some time to regroup. Then they fight, after which, The Operative does his pressure point ninja technique that we are to expect is going to do the same thing as what happened to the hapless Dr. Mathias in the beginning. But Mal surprises The Operative because, as Mal explains after all the cards are in his favor, that the particular nerve cluster The Op was going for had been damaged by shrapnel in the war. So, it wasn't a stun laser meant to hold Mal in place like his ninja technique was. They're two separate things. Hopefully I made sense, because it works just fine in my mind. What hasn't quite gelled with me is what it is exactly that Mal does to The Operative after jabbing him in the throat... it's a kind of half nelson thing where, I thought initially, it seemed like he broke The Op's back. Apparently not...

Anyway... not to hijack the thread or anything. Stun gun, ninja nerve cluster punch... two different things. :)

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 8:40 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Well,

I guess I have no choice but to believe the stun gun thing.

My problems with it are three-fold.

1) In no other scene in the movie is it explained that the weapon the Operative has is a stun gun.

2) In no other scene in the movie does the Operative take pains to use less-than-lethal force. Quite the opposite.

3) The stun gun is remarkably ineffective if it is a stun gun. In fact, the gun is remarkably ineffective regardless of what sort of gun it is. The only thing it succeeds in doing is getting Mal to stop and turn around.

I guess there's bound to be a scene in every movie that breaks realism and suspension of disbelief. I'm just sorry that unlike Jayne's flippy head bash move, this scene-breaker is at the film's climax.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 6, 2005 11:15 PM

MRFLUFFY

Hi Ant,

Thought I'd chip in with my remarkable ability to suspend disbelief and come up with an explaination. As mentioned, you can see the finished special effect in US Trailer 2 where it does indeed look like some sort of stun gun. We do however know already that the Alliance does use non-lethal weaponry ('Ariel' springs to mind).

Having said that, it is a pretty sodding poor weapon. Looks like it can be overpowered by determination.

Now, The Operative and his motivations. You're right, at no other point does he attempt to use non-lethal weaponry. This leads me to suggest that perhaps The Operative himself has been fundamentaly changed by the events already. By this point, he has seen the lengths that Mal will go to - almost equaling his own ruthlessness (bringing the Reavers to rip apart the Alliance for one).

He perhaps knows that Mal's motivation equals his own, some part of him *wants* to know what it is that drives Mal. Shooting Mal in the back wouldn't have given him closure.

There's a lot about honour to be addressed here. He admired the work of Dr. Mathias and so felt it important to give him what he considered to be an honourable death. If he now considers Mal a worthy opponent, he must now give Mal the same respect that he gave Dr. Mathias.

Honour among mass murderers, or some such.

Ta-ta for now,

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 2:46 AM

EMBERS

McFluffy, that is an excellent explanation,
and I think future (multiple) viewings of 'Serenity' will make it all clear in our minds.

But I would say, not 'honor' among murders
but among true believers.
The Operatives motivations were that of a religious fanatic,
and he never expected to find anything approaching his willingness to die for the cause in Mal.

The fact that Mal knew something worth dying for would make him curious,
because he thought only HE had the cause worth dying for.

Oh, and that was Dr. Mathias who was allowed to 'fall on his sword' at the beginning?
because did you notice?
Dr. Mathia gave River her 'Mission' in session 416 excerpt 1

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 3:15 AM

MRFLUFFY

Aye, he's clearly done some good work that deserves death-by-falling-on-sword.

Nothing like a bit of quality penmanship...

Serenity has a lot of interesting things to day about belief and the price of freedom. I think that the way it addresses fanaticism in particular is pretty bold, considering the current world climate.

Also... I love the Session 416 viral campaign but I do question it's potential at helping to market to non-fans.

Oh, wait, this was a topic about Mal getting shot in the back. I remember. Another thought, keeping with the same logic, is that The Operative purposefully had the stun on a low setting to keep Mal 'in the game'.

But remember we have also seen how crappy new-fangled Alliance weapons can be (again, 'Ariel') ;-)

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 3:36 AM

OXYOPIA

Two points I can contribute to this thread:

1. My best explanation as to why the 'stun gun' The Operative uses is so ineffective against Mal was b/c he wanted to make sure he killed Mal face to face. I think, by this time, The Operative was truly angered by Mal's actions (bringing in the Reavers and killing off 'innocent' Alliance troops in the ensuing battle) and wanted to kill him very very badly. However, his own twisted moral code would not allow him to murder an unsuspecting target without a 'fair fight', so I think he lowered the setting on the stunner so as to get Mal's attention and prevent him from crossing the chasm.

2. After finally seeing the completed version of the movie (and two pre-screenings), I think I figured out what Mal did to The Operative to incapacitate him. First, he gave him a shot to the throat to stun him and then he dislocated both his shoulders. He then puts The Operative against the railing and uses his sword to secure him to it. This is why you dont see The Operative moving any of his upper body in the final scenes, but also explains why he would be up and about at the end of the flick.

The thing that disapointed me in the final cut of the film was how they shortened the scene where Mal pulls the sword from his torso. I remember in the pre-screenings that the scene was a bit longer and certainly much more wince-inducing, especially with the sound effects they used. My best guess is that they shortened it to get to the PG-13 rating.

-Oxy

------------------------------------------------
'What people call impossible is just stuff they
haven't seen yet...'

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 6:12 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hi all,

I can see by now that I didn't miss any important details when watching the scene. It is the audience's job to reconcile events in this climactic battle. (A simple line of 'I see I'm not the only one who wears body armor' would have sufficed.)

To defend weapons of the Alliance, though, I have to say that every person shot with an Alliance weapon in any of the episodes either died or dropped like a rock.

They just weren't built for busting down doors, is all.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 6:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"The thing that disapointed me in the final cut of the film was how they shortened the scene where Mal pulls the sword from his torso. I remember in the pre-screenings that the scene was a bit longer and certainly much more wince-inducing, especially with the sound effects they used. My best guess is that they shortened it to get to the PG-13 rating."

That's a shame. It was important to see Mal take as much punishment as possible.

Of course, it would have been nice to see him even more incapacitated and bloody on his walk back to his people. Or even not able to make the trip back.

Of all the things I liked about the film, and even the final fight, I have to say there's a few points in Mal's fight scene where things could have used some tweaking.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 6:21 AM

RETRO

Basically, what I take from that scene is that Mal is a TOUGH SOB. The gunshot wasn't lethal, but it hurt. Mal just got up anyway. That's the power of belief. Same as when Mal got stabbed.

"Just because I choose to wander, it doesn't mean that I am lost..."

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 6:24 AM

EMBERS

and similar to Mal in 'Out of Gas', he took a bullet to the chest and still managed to get the ship running again!
Stronger than your average bear, that's our Mal!

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 6:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father: prepare to die."

I've seen the same determination handled before. I guess it just resonated more the way it was handled in that movie. Inigo is hit with the thrown dagger. He falls, the aura of defeat and death is on him. Then he makes the decision. You can see him rally. He stands. He fights.

Kill Bill had a similar scene at the end. You can see The Bride massively wounded in an early attack of the final fight. She falls. Then she forces herself up.

After Mal is stabbed, we get a similar scene. Let me tell you, we see this scene so often in so many movies because it works on our hearts.

But when he gets shot in the back? Nada.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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