need to change webhosts due to CENSORSHIP :( by Chipmunk

ONE TRADING POST

need to change webhosts due to CENSORSHIP :(

POSTED BY: CHIPMUNK
UPDATED: Friday, September 16, 2005 13:42
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VIEWED: 4224
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Friday, September 9, 2005 8:07 PM

Sorry if this is off topic (deletion permission is hereby granted to all moderators), but figured who'd be more censorship conscious than a bunch of Firefly fans? :)

I need to change webhosts quickly, so am looking for recommendations, 'cause when your compression coil busts, you're drifting.

Ours suddenly demanded we remove a statement that we publicly posted 7 1/2 months ago in their support forum, hence they must have been aware of it for a looooong time. We spelled out we've got that problem with our conformity being missing, we're them as have the need to be free, and we flatly refused to remove the factually correct statement (which contained neither hate nor even vulgar language).

They immediately censored it, and later confirmed that their actions were not in response to any complaint, but were merely an expression of their (apparently new found) standards. Our post was purely in response to verifiable "hate speech" by two of their customers/trolls.

Here's the fairly simple shared hosting we're looking for:

Minimum Non numerical requirements:
[list]
* really hate spammers
* mature understanding of libel laws (we have a growing public anti-spam related database - hence need for understanding of libel laws... further clarifications below)
* zero tolerance policy against bona fide spammers, yet have enough sense to investigate possible "Joe Jobs"
* completely squeaky clean record of never having spammed
* pro military service veterans (current host... not-so-much... they never fought in no war)
* does not host hate groups
* does not host pornographic sites (several of our members are not comfortable sharing a server with pornographic sites - no offense against Registered Companions and other persons of status)
* zero tolerance policy for piracy (unauthorized salvage operations are a might fuzzier, and some of us are out-of-the-closet Vulture Geeks)
[/list]

Minimum Tech requirements:
[list]
* 100 MB disk space and at least 3 GB bandwidth for "about" $5 to $15 per month
* PHP
* at least 99.5% uptime
* packages that allow expansion (i.e. more space, bandwidth, capabilities)
* at least 20 mailboxes, unlimited aliases, no goofy address naming conventions
* at least one full month's worth of raw web access logs, and associated error logs, both of which must be available at all times
* 24/7 support with less than one hour reply time (email or forum based are acceptable - we're fully aware that many issues can not be resolved in one hour, we just want confirmation and estimated time to resolve)
[/list]

Would be really nice to have:
[list]
* ability to run custom spam filters (I've written a very powerful filter that processes messages on standard input and returns a standard qmail exit code - only had to visually check one spam for all of last month)
* really Geeky staff... people who'd "get" all the gratuitous Firefly quotes in this post :)
[/list]

Nice to have, but not currently in use (drop price above to $10 if have none):
[list]
* CGI
* MySQL
* managed dedicated servers (not needed for at least another year)
[/list]

What we have absolutely no use for (particularly if it's used as an excuse for compromising important core features):
[list]
* any kind of stats (we're Geeks, and do all our analysis offline)
* some people ain't looking for flash, or any goofy yuppie technologies
[/list]

We'd prefer an established, medium size company in the USA or Canada, but are more than willing to try out a small Geek-centric independant outfit, if the principals have an easily verifiable solid reputation.

Our site has been online eight years, and with the exception of the spam related stuff, is "squeaky clean" containing:
info on our company; some software demos, patches, and freeware for our business customers (no on-site ecommerce - all done elsewhere); plus a ton of wildlife pics, including many of critters whose coats are kinda a brownish color. It's almost entirely static HTML pages, so is very gentle on a server. We do a fair amount of small business IT consulting, so have the potential to bring dozens of customers to a good hosting company. We're hoping to start the transfer Monday.

Feel free to post here (if that's ok with the moderators), or email me at:
bait_ffn@IowaHoneypot.com
with the word Firefly as the first part of the Subject.
Note that permission is only granted to send to that address, those emails which are entirely about Firefly/Serenity, or about webhosts which reasonably meet the criteria listed above. Iowa has one of the toughest anti-spam laws in the country. We call her Vera.

Um, did I mention I hate spam? And love Firefly? :)

Spam database clarification:
We have a growing database of anti-spam information, and have already been threatened by one spammer (woo-hoo). We carefully research all new data, and have a written policy on handling errors. Most of those pages are highly ranked by Google, and are our #1 traffic (growing steadily). So far we have received only two remove requests, both handled in a timely manner (actually, we first asked that the complainers provide fairly simple proof that they were the authorized contact for the spammer domain, and in both cases, they suddenly changed their minds - see, not all spammers are completely stupid).

This shouldn't be a problem for any Geek company that comprehends the laws of libel. Basically, if someone complains, just call their bluff by instructing them to please, please, please make all our days and (try to) sue us. :)

...Ban my words, boil my blood, you can't take the net from me

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Friday, September 9, 2005 8:30 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS

Hey there guy, sorry I'm pretty computer illiterate but you got my curious goin'. What did you say that got you censored?

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 8:03 PM

CHIPMUNK

Thanks for the morale support, MrsR!

The phrase itself was really benign. There's a long history involved with it that I can't adequately capture, even in a tome length message (which I started to write, but decided to

spare y'all the agony).

The whole situation is bizarre, but I found I feel relieved. There have been technical, professionalism, and ethical issues with them, from a few months after we moved to them. There's some things that are great, and their uptime was generally very good, but when their behavior is unpredictable, that's mighty nervous making. Like most personal/small-business sites, we do not work 24/7, so it was ludicrous for them to send a compliance order allowing only 24 hours for action, at 5:02pm on any Friday, particularly the one before a 9/11 anniversary weekend.

Anyone who missed this, I got back very late from my weekend trip, so have not yet signed up with a new host. I'm still looking for recommendations, particularly of one whose system is setup to run a spam filter that takes messages on stdin, and returns an exit code to indicate whether to drop or pass it. Does anyone use Pair.com? They run qmail, but their docus are disjointed.

17 days, and about 12 hours from now, I will be most serene.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 9:48 PM

TIGER

http://www.webmasters.com/

They meet all your requirements and more as far as I can see by a quick scan. They are fast, inexpensive, and reliable.

I'm pretty sure they don't have a policy against hosting pornography (check for yourself to be sure), but honestly any host that will censor one type of legal behavior is much more likely to censor another (like yours) right?

I hope you find what you need.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:04 AM

REDHERON

Our company goes through some good folks... can't say as they're going to work perfectly, but...

http://www.websitesource.net/

Long as you don't peddle porn, they're pretty cool with whatever you've got.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:43 PM

CHIPMUNK

Thanks! Still looking for a good webhost, if anyone has suggestions. Particularly desirable is the ability to run our own homebrew spam filter (it was very close to moving out of Alpha into public Beta status - dang!).

RedHeron:
Can't resist asking if you're aware that one of Great Blue Herons' favorite treats are a certain cheerful, geeky rodent, whose coats are kinda a brownish color?

Tiger:
Our big concern is that our current host's 24 hour "sudden death" approach to all issues (regardless of whether they're system related or "soft" issues), is an open invitation for mischief by spammers. We're in the early stages of litigation against a spammer, so this is a major vulnerability for us.

For example, several months ago they published a formal DMCA policy that boils down to, if anybody contacts them with a DMCA complaint against us (or any customer), they only allow 24 hours to follow the DMCA's process, and if we fail (for example, because we haven't seen the notice), they take down our site.

All that's required to stop the take down, is that someone accused make a formal declaration that they do own the item(s) under dispute. Should take about a minute. Restoring a site because of a missed notice... not-so-much.

There's nothing in the DMCA that requires 24 hour turnaround. The wording is nonspecific as to when, only requiring that a service provider act "expeditiously". It's our position that 3 business days is reasonable.

Many of their customers pointed this out, and were very upset at such a narrowly defined policy. This recent action by them is just one of many incidents where they've been rigid about non system issues. I've got no problem with them instantly disabling a rogue script (never had a problem ourselves, but we'd feel awful if we messed up a shared server). It's entirely a different matter for them to have policies that, once triggered, they follow roboticly. For example, there's currently an out of the closet spammer / linkfarmer on their system, who has bragged about its exploits, yet no action has been taken against it, because no formal complaint has been made.

Rigid and arbitrary are scary. Scarier than pain.

Required Happy Thought: 17 days from now, I'll have seen Serenity once, and be eating dinner before my 2nd viewing.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:47 PM

HJERMSTED

I go through www.speakeasy.net

I've stuck with them for years mainly because of the philanthropic stuff they do for the community here in Seattle where they are HQ'd. They are national.

mattro

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Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:33 AM

TIGER

Quote:
Originally posted by Chipmunk:
if anybody contacts them with a DMCA complaint against us (or any customer), they only allow 24 hours to follow the DMCA's process, and if we fail (for example, because we haven't seen the notice), they take down our site.

That does sound unreasonable.

Out of curiosity, what type of site do you run that you run into DMCA problems so often?

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Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:45 AM

SPINLAND

Might want to give

http://www.totalchoicehosting.com

a look-see.

---------------------------
I didn't do it.
You can't prove it.
The sheep are lying.

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Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:06 AM

CHIPMUNK

Tiger, we have never had, nor do we ever expect to have a legitimate DMCA complaint. All our content is original, or by reliable associates of good character.

Our concern is that someone malicious could easily file a fraudulent DMCA complaint, and our (soon-to-be-ex) webhost's policy and past behavior invite such abuse.

Our site is not an issue. Our values are. We have two groups that have grudges against us:
a spammer whom we're suing,
and a group of anti-Semites whom we "outed" after 9/11 (they made the mistake of sending some of their filth to one of our accounts - I will never forget the pain my life partner experienced looking at one image in particular).

I'd characterize both groups as psychotic lowlifes, but that would be an offense to the psychotic lowlife community. Both are (IMO) going to the Special Hell.

I need a Happy Thought: 15 days to go!

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Friday, September 16, 2005 1:42 PM

REDHERON

To respond...

We're not a Great Blue... we're a Red. Red herons prefer to eat amphibians (read: slimy toads) with purple bellies. :)

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