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Originally posted by whozit:
Spare me YOUR LIES!

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by whozit:
Spare me YOUR LIES!

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Republicans are such good sports -- always telling jokes. Now let's get serious. Consider the track of unemployment under two presidents. One is lauded as the ultimate economic hero and savior; the other reviled as an economic failure, who killed jobs by being nice to poor people and insulting job creators. The chart compares their records.


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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The "numbers" for unemployment are down because people have stopped looking for work, over 93 million able body people are unemployed in Obamas America. Believe it or not (I don't care what you believe) the trucking industry needs drivers, there is a shortage of office workers and they are begging for people to work at seafood processing plants in Alaska. These are good paying jobs, but you instead of filling those jobs, you libs want to pay burger flippers $15 dollars an hour.

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Originally posted by whozit:
These are good paying jobs, but you instead of filling those jobs, you libs want to pay burger flippers $15 dollars an hour. Spare me your filth lies.

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There's a growing problem that chefs and restaurateurs are talking about more these days.

Good cooks are getting harder to come by. Not the head kitchen honchos, depicted in Food Network reality shows, who fine-tune menus, and orchestrate the dinner rush, but the men and women who are fresh out of culinary school and eager to earn their chops. The shortage of able kitchen hands is affecting chefs in Chicago....It's an issue in New York as well....And it extends to restaurants out West, where a similar pinch is being felt. Seattle is coping with the same dilemma. San Francisco, too.

....One of the clearest obstacles to hiring a good cook, let alone someone willing to work the kitchen these days, is that living in this country's biggest cities is increasingly unaffordable. In New York, for instance, where an average cook can expect to make somewhere between $10 and $12 per hour....

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Originally posted by whozit:

Believe it or not (I don't care what you believe) the trucking industry needs drivers . . . Spare me your filth lies.

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Just last week it took me 13 hours to get loaded at a certain shipper in Yuma, Arizona. This is totally uncalled for. Right now, as I type this, I've been waiting for 18 hours to get loaded. This customer does not pay detention time, so I am sitting here for free. Many customers, because of their poor practices, end up indirectly making me stay awake for 24 hours or more. I never expected to have so many 24hr days. There are a lot of things that are unfair in this industry.

It is not a glamorous life and we are vastly underpaid for what we do. As an OTR truck driver, I am away from home 4 to 6 weeks or more at a time. I then go home for 4 days before I get back on the road for another 4 to 6 weeks. It's a tough life, both mentally and physically. The standard of living we have is much lower than most Americans.

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Originally posted by JO753:
A Bush administration guy no less!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412044/-George-HW-Bush-econo
mist-shocked-Chris-Hayes-when-he-said-this-about-his-Republican-Party?detail=email

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Next you will explain that your favorite Republican is Richard Dreyfus.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
One comment on that picture of Piggy and Nathan. Nathan needs a diet.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by JO753:
A Bush administration guy no less!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/14/1412044/-George-HW-Bush-econo
mist-shocked-Chris-Hayes-when-he-said-this-about-his-Republican-Party?detail=email

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Careful.
A thread title like that will make people suspect you are not really actually deluded. You might lose your Libtard Card.

But your link proves that you have found an elitist who is critical of reasonable voters and candidates, doesn't like voters being allowed to vote for the best candidate, critical of leaders of the party he previously worked for, and somehow we should be surprised that you label him a Republican and also consider him reasonable. Shocking, I say, shocking.

Next you will explain that your favorite Republican is Richard Dreyfus.

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Originally posted by Brenda:
How is he suppose to play Mal on line with that gut? I know it is 12 years or so later but with all the running and such. Not right.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Aw, my heart missed a beat

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Originally posted by Brenda:

And for Trump, I knew that guy was an idiot years ago but if you all in the States want to do something stupid again the rest of the world can't stop you. But do a little thinking before and maybe golly gee whiz, you WON'T.

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Originally posted by JO753:
about Trump:

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Memory loss site
It may be true that seeing is believing, but we can be dead wrong about what we think we remember seeing-sometimes with tragic consequences. Just ask one of the more-than 100 people who have been freed from prison after the minutest trace of DNA evidence totally refuted the "iron-clad" eyewitness evidence that led to the prison sentence in the first place.

Eyewitness identification, in which witnesses to a crime pick potential perpetrators out of a lineup, is a widely accepted form of evidence. In police work, eyewitness ID's are critical to solving many crimes. But psychologists have amassed powerful evidence that eyewitness identifications are far less reliable than many people may think. And they believe that changes can and should be made in police lineup procedures to reduce the number of false identifications-especially those leading to long prison sentences for rape and murder.

Ted talks
So what's wrong? Straightforward, fair trial, full investigation. Oh yes, no gun was ever found. No vehicle was ever identified as being the one in which the shooter had extended his arm, and no person was ever charged with being the driver of the shooter's vehicle. And Mr. Carrillo's alibi? Which of those parents here in the room might not lie concerning the whereabouts of your son or daughter in an investigation of a killing?

03:41
Sent to prison, adamantly insisting on his innocence, which he has consistently for 21 years.

03:52
So what's the problem? The problems, actually, for this kind of case come manyfold from decades of scientific research involving human memory. First of all, we have all the statistical analyses from the Innocence Project work, where we know that we have, what, 250, 280 documented cases now where people have been wrongfully convicted and subsequently exonerated, some from death row, on the basis of later DNA analysis, and you know that over three quarters of all of those cases of exoneration involved only eyewitness identification testimony during the trial that convicted them. We know that eyewitness identifications are fallible.

Scientific America
IN 1984 KIRK BLOODSWORTH was convicted of the rape and murder of a nine-year-old girl and sentenced to the gas chamber—an outcome that rested largely on the testimony of five eyewitnesses. After Bloodsworth served nine years in prison, DNA testing proved him to be innocent. Such devastating mistakes by eyewitnesses are not rare, according to a report by the Innocence Project, an organization affiliated with the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University that uses DNA testing to exonerate those wrongfully convicted of crimes. Since the 1990s, when DNA testing was first introduced, Innocence Project researchers have reported that 73 percent of the 239 convictions overturned through DNA testing were based on eyewitness testimony. One third of these overturned cases rested on the testimony of two or more mistaken eyewitnesses. How could so many eyewitnesses be wrong?

visual expert website

Australian eyewitness expert Donald Thomson appeared on a live TV discussion about the unreliability of eyewitness memory. He was later arrested, placed in a lineup and identified by a victim as the man who had raped her. The police charged Thomson although the rape had occurred at the time he was on TV. They dismissed his alibi that he was in plain view of a TV audience and in the company of the other discussants, including an assistant commissioner of police. The policeman taking his statement sneered, "Yes, I suppose you've got Jesus Christ, and the Queen of England, too." Eventually, the investigators discovered that the rapist had attacked the woman as she was watching TV - the very program on which Thompson had appeared. Authorities eventually cleared Thomson. The woman had confused the rapist's face with the face that she had seen on TV. (Baddeley, 2004).

Memory is "blurred"

There are several reasons for this. One is that images in our mind's eye are never as clear as an actual perception. If you try to recall your bedroom, you can get a general image of the location of large and significant objects, their shapes, colors, etc. But the image is not nearly as detailed as what you would see if you were actually viewing the room.

People are much better at discriminating between two objects when they are physically present than when one is present and the other is in memory. Two colors which are easily distinguishable when presented side by side may be confused when one or both must be recalled in memory. In fact, while humans can distinguish thousands (some say millions) of physically present colors, one study suggests that they can identify only 17 in memory.

Color is a particular good example of memory's low resolution. While there are thousands of discriminable colors, color memory is very limited. Research suggests that people group colors into about 11 categories: white, black, red, green, blue, yellow, brown, orange, purple, pink and gray. Memory will easily distinguish between colors of different categories (red vs. blue) but will have a very difficult time distinguishing shades within a category (blue-green vs. blue-violet.)

Color memory also has some biases. People typically remember colors as being closer to a purer color category, so an orange-red will be remembered as a more perfect red. For example, people often think of tomatoes as being red, but check them the next time you go to the supermarket: they are usually very orangey. People also remember colors as being brighter than they actually were. I have a gray Toyota Camry, similar to the one shown on the left. After shopping when I return to the parking lot, I often mistakenly head toward a "silver" Camry like the one shown on the right in the belief that it must be my car. Viewed next to each other, gray and silver cars are quite distinct. In memory, they are not.

Another problem is that memory often stores perceptual information in verbal form rather than as an image. That is, a person might see a blue car. This information is stored in memory as the words "blue" and "car." Later, the person will not be able to identify the shade of blue because memory has only stored the fact that the car was blue. Worse, the car perception may have been stored as "dark" and the person will not be able to distinguish among dark colors - dark blue, black, etc. This process of converting images to word-like forms is automatic and people are unaware when they do it.

Several authors have concluded that memory simply encodes the general gist of a scene. For example, memory may code a memory of a person as short, tall, young, fat, thin, old, white, black, rugged, etc. or some combination. If coded as "tall" and "fat", the person will have difficulty discriminating among different tall, fat people. Moreover, the witness might well characterize the person as being jolly, since fat people are often stereotyped as being jolly. Memory reconstruction (see below) often uses general knowledge and expectations to fill in blanks of specific memories. In short, the eyewitness confuses information stored in semantic and autobiographical memories.

Eyewitness misidentification is the greatest contributing factor to wrongful convictions proven by DNA testing, playing a role in more than 70% of convictions overturned through DNA testing nationwide. - See more at: http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Lining up suspects in front of a one-way mirror and allowing eyewitnesses to choose which one is the perpetrator is standard police procedure. Yet DNA evidence has repeatedly revealed the limitations of this technique: Many prison inmates whose convictions hinged on eyewitness identification were later proven innocent by DNA testing.
http://www.apa.org/

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Trump and Carson on 9/11 cheers


The former mayor of New York City admitted on Morning Joe that he recalled hearing reports of cheers in New Jersey and New York on Sept. 11, 2001, but stressed that he never saw any footage.

Rudy Giuliani, who served as NYC’s mayor during the terrorist attacks on 9/11, was asked by co-host Mika Brzezinski about Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump‘s claim that he witnesses people cheering in Jersey City that day. Before she could finish her question, Giuliani immediately jumped in with an answer.

“I was, as you know, deeply involved in it. I heard reports of such things in New Jersey [and] in New York. I didn’t see it.”
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rudy-giuliani-i-heard-but-didnt-see-reports
-of-911-cheers-in-new-jersey/

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump defended claims that he witnessed Muslims celebrating in New Jersey following the 9/11 attacks, citing a Washington Post article that described one rooftop...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1231443/Trump-defends-clai
ms-saw-Jersey-Muslims-celebrating-9-11.html

digital journal writes about the Jewish conspiracy

..

There was, however, a group of Middle Eastern men seen smiling and, allegedly, even dancing while recording video footage of the burning and collapsing World Trade Center on 9/11. But they weren't Muslims. According to ABC News, a New Jersey woman who could see the twin towers from her apartment called police on 9/11 after witnessing suspicious men on the roof of a van in her building's parking lot who looked "happy." The neighbor told police she saw the men "dancing" as the horrific scene unfolded before them. She wrote down the van's license plate and called police.
The FBI was soon alerted and a statewide bulletin was issued for the van, which was traced to a company called Urban Moving. Hours later, police stopped the van near Giants Stadium in East Rutherford. Five men, ages 22-27, were removed from the vehicle at gunpoint after failing to obey officers' orders and arrested (read police report here). Officers said their suspicions were heightened by what they found in the van: in addition to box cutters and $4,700 in cash, one of the men had two foreign passports.
"We are Israeli. We are not your problem," the van's driver, Sivan Kurzberg, told arresting officers. "Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem."
The Atlanta Journal Constitution reported that the Israeli Foreign Ministry counted 90-100 Israeli nationals arrested on or after 9/11. While the majority were picked up for immigration violations, there were suspicions that some of them were more than just tourists.
All five of the men arrested in the van identified themselves as Israelis. With the five suspects in custody, investigators turned their attention to Urban Moving, but found the company had shuttered in a hurry, with owner Dominick Suter clearing out his New Jersey home and hastily fleeing back to Israel. Meanwhile, the five arrested men were imprisoned for more than two months. Some of them were held in solitary confinement—which is widely recognized as a form of torture—for more than 40 days. Some were given at least seven lie detector tests. One of the men confessed to working for Israeli intelligence, but in another country.
The Jewish Daily Forward reported in a March 2002 article titled "Spy Rumors Fly on Gusts of Truth" that the FBI concluded that at least two of the five men were Mossad agents spying on a common enemy of both Israel and the United States: radical Islamists.
"The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it," an unnamed former US official told the Forward. "The conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs but that they could leave because they did not know anything about 9/11."
The Israeli government denied that the five men arrested in the Urban Moving van were Israeli agents. But many US officials have insisted that the men were, in fact, Israeli spies. The FBI concluded the five prisoners did not have any pre-knowledge of the tragic events of 9/11, and the men were eventually released.
In 2004, four of the Israelis filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against Attorney General John Ashcroft and wardens of the Federal Bureau of Prisons, alleging they were tortured with solitary confinement, sleep deprivation and other physical violence and rough interrogations. The "dancing Israelis" were not successful in court, but their suit was a reminder of documented events on 9/11 when Middle Easterners were indeed arrested after witnesses said they saw them celebrating—only they were Israelis, not Muslims as spuriously claimed by Trump.
Digital Journal is a Canadian Internet news service that blends professional contributions with user-submitted content.
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/politics




Trump and Carson on 9/11 'celebrations'

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/29/chuck-todd-donald-trump-batt
le-over-nj-muslims-celebrating-911-youre-running-for-president-truthfulness-matters/
Trump said, “Take it easy, Chuck. Just play cool. This is people in this country that love our country that saw this by the hundreds they’re calling and they’re tweeting and there’s a lot of people in Sarasota, people were telling me yesterday they used to live in New Jersey, they remember it vividly. They thought it was disgusting. So these are people that saw it, too. The Washington Post reported it. other people — many, many people have seen it. So I believe that — I have a very good memory, Chuck, I’ll tell you, I have a very good memory. I saw it somewhere on television many years ago and I never forgot it and it was on television, too.”





New Jersey radio station 101.5 quotes some of these accounts here. A sampling:
Walter Emiliantsev: “I lived in NJ at the time on Demott Ave., Clifton! When I tried to go to Paterson to my brother in laws shop, I usually took Main Ave. There were so many people dancing on Main, I couldn’t get through! I KNOW what I saw!”



Remember What Happened. WHO DID IT. & WHO CELEBRATED
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/41898/911-muslim-attacks-on-us-remember
-what-happened-who-did-it-who-celebrated/





William Hugelmeyer: "I was working in the jail when the attacks occurred. Once it was clear it was a terrorist attack, we had inmates celebrating. This instantly caused a lockdown. As you could imagine, many other inmates and officers didn't share their jubilation."

John Pezzino: "They were in the streets banging on the cars trying to drive through the crowd in the street. The Muslims were shouting death to Americans and Allah is great other crap I didn't understand. We were amused until a car with 3 young women mistakenly turned on to main st. The muslims were banging on their windows and screaming, thats when we came out of our car and pushed the muslims off their car helped them back out and get back to the Parkway."

Walter Emiliantsev: "I lived in NJ at the time on Demott Ave., Clifton! When I tried to go to Paterson to my brother in laws shop, I usually took Main Ave. There were so many people dancing on Main, I couldn't get through! I KNOW what I saw!"

Occam's Razor suggests that when numerous people, using their first and last names in a public forum, and providing concrete details that can be checked, all provide similar accounts of public behavior, chances are they are telling the truth. It is possible that all of these people, as Kim LaCapria suggests, are suffering from false memory syndrome, or are all attempting to whip up murderous hatred against Muslims, as Benjamin Wittes accuses, but neither LaCapria nor Wittes provides any support for their smears.

Cui bono directs us to consider "who benefits" from a statement. New Jersey has one of the largest Muslim populations in the US, after Michigan. New Jersey's Muslim population constitutes the second highest, by percent, in the US, after Illinois and above Michigan. New Jersey Muslims wield political clout. Note Republican Governor Chris Christie's nomination of Sohail Mohammed for the New Jersey Superior Court in spite of intense pressure, and Christie's dismissal as "crap" any concerns that New Jerseyans might have about sharia law. Note also that a New Jersey judge ruled that a Muslim man had the basis to beat, torture, and rape his 17-year-old wife because he believed that Islam granted him this right. Muslim political clout may explain why so many empowered voices insist that the 9-11 celebrations never happened.
https://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/mcs/case_law/sd_v_mjr.pdf

Too, no decent New Jerseyan wanted to see retaliatory attacks against Muslims in our state. Many speculate, and some report as fact, that police, journalists and local officials downplayed or denied Muslim celebrations to protect Muslims from retaliatory attacks.

In contrast, those who insist that they witnessed Muslim celebrations have nothing to gain by making these statements publicly, and everything to lose. First, many of those speaking out now have no public record of making these statements previous to this controversy. They saw what they saw and they kept it to themselves, or told only those closest to them, for the past fourteen years. It is only the attempt to expunge this historical fact from public memory, and to smear and disgrace anyone who speaks this truth, that caused witnesses to come forward. They are average New Jerseyans simply telling the truth in the face of a wave of censorship and demonization that could cost them their friends or their jobs.

Are accounts of Muslims in New Jersey celebrating 9-11 consistent with other verified data? Indeed they are.

Palestinians make up a large percentage of Paterson's Muslim population, so much so that the neighborhood where the 9-11 celebration is alleged to have taken place is sometimes nicknamed "Little Ramallah." Local businesses are often named for Palestinian landmarks, for example the Al-Quds restaurant, Al-Quds Halal meat and the Al-Quds bakery. Paterson has a large Hispanic population; there are businesses with the provocative and irredentist name of El Andalus Discount Store and Andalus Islamic Fashion. Paterson Palestinians are not shy about expressing their opposition to Israel, see here. Indeed, Paterson's City Hall famously flew the Palestinian flag. http://www.northjersey.com/news/palestinian-flag-raising-is-highlight-
of-heritage-week-in-paterson-1.1324680 One Paterson resident, Moneer Simreen, is quoted referring to Palestine, not the US, as "our country." Americans, Tariq Elsamma said, "need to obey our needs because we are a large community." Paterson's mayor, Jose Torres, wore a kaffiyeh and supported making Ramallah Paterson's sister city.

Even those who deny that any American Muslims celebrated 9-11 acknowledge that Palestinians overseas did celebrate the attacks. Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are familially related to Palestinians in Paterson.

Further, polling data indicate that there is not inconsiderable support for terror among some Muslims, with support varying by group. In a 2005 FAFO Foundation poll, a significant percentage of Palestinian respondents supported "Al Qaeda's actions like bombings in USA and Europe." A 2013 Pew Poll found that 40% of Palestinians support suicide bombing in defense of Islam. In the same poll, only one percent of Muslims in Azerbaijan voiced support for suicide bombing.

Finally, we know that six of the 9-11 hijackers lived in Paterson, NJ, and they used the computers of a nearby campus in planning their attacks.

There are all too many non-Muslims who voice support for terror as well. One notorious example: Ward Churchill, a white American university professor of European, Christian descent called the 9-11 victims "little Eichmanns." Other non-Muslims say that poverty or injustice justifies terrorism.

Good people of all beliefs need to say, without ambiguity or apology, that Western Civilization is worth maintaining, and that terrorism is both immoral and a tactical dead-end. If Muslims don't like an aspect of public life, they can change it through organizing and hard work. But we aren't having that conversation to the extent that we should. Instead too many of our cultural elites are apologetic about Western Civilization, and too eager to make excuses for terrorism.

No, Ms. LaCapria, there is no evidence that the people who witnessed New Jersey Muslims celebrating 9-11 suffer from false memory syndrome. No, Benjamin Wittes, those who witnessed the celebrations are not "lying delusional murderous mobs." Rather, the real bigots and racists are those who demonize the honest New Jerseyans who risk censure by simply stating what they saw. From universities, newspaper suites and think tanks, the erasers of history look down on average Americans and sneer. They believe the worst of the American people. They are convinced that if Americans know one small fact - that some New Jersey Muslims celebrated on 9-11 - we will rise up with our pitchforks and torches and erupt into slaughter. They are the delusional ones.

Americans are nice people. We are not especially bigoted. We know that 9-11 happened. Most Americans probably suspect that some minority of Muslims celebrated, openly or in secret. It's been fourteen years, and the pogrom that some have been perversely hoping for and trying to foment never happened.

What we need is frank speech. We need to talk to our Muslim fellow citizens about why some of them celebrated on 9-11. And we need to - through speech - convince those who celebrated 9-11 that they are mistaken. The day that we do so will be a good day. We delay that day by denying that these celebrations ever happened.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260952/did-new-jersey-muslims-celebrat
e-911-danusha-v-goska

The Washington Post confirmed Donald Trump’s remarks about seeing Muslims in NJ celebrating 9/11
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2015/11/23/the-washington-post-confirmed
-donald-trumps-remarks-about-seeing-muslims-in-nj-celebrating-911/


mediaite comments
I did see videos of small pockets of people celebrating,at Rutgers and in Paterson NJ
Maybe 20 or 30 people.
It was all over news 12 new jersey,the local outlet.
It was never thousands.


In a phone interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Trump said he has heard from "hundreds of people that agree" that there were televised Muslim celebrations of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, which he used as evidence to show his remarks were true.

"I saw it. So many people saw it," said Trump, who, in the race for the November 2016 election, has been among the most vocal of the Republican candidates in expressing skepticism about Muslims in the United States. "So, why would I take it back? I'm not going to take it back."

When NBC anchor Chuck Todd suggested the people Trump heard from are supporters and might want to agree with him, Trump interrupted to note the "huge Muslim population" New Jersey has.

"Why wouldn't it have taken place?" he said of a celebration there. "I've had hundreds of people call in and tweet in on Twitter, saying that they saw it and I was 100 percent right."

...
...
"It did happen in New Jersey," Trump said.

"I have a very good memory, I'll tell you," he said. "I saw it somewhere on television many years ago. And I never forgot it."


http://newjersey.news12.com/news/there-were-no-mass-celebration-of-mus
lims-in-nj-after-9-11-officials-say-1.11157443
54 Comments


Trump reframes claim that Muslims cheered 9/11
Read more at Reutershttp:// www.reuters.com/

someonline thoughts from right and left
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1908153-REVEALED-Trump-Was-Right-%
E2%80%93-Muslims-DID-Celebrate-in-New-Jersey-on-9-11
http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=451056
http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=852913
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42650530
http://www.city-data.com/forum/elections/2486838-i-saw-american-muslim
s-celebrate-9-a-2.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/trump-is-right-us-muslims-did-ce
lebrate-9-11.458481/
http://www.liberalforum.org/index.php?/topic/184432-more-evidence-new-
jersey-muslims-celebrating-911/
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?485730-Trump-Carson-repeat
-disputed-9-11-celebration-claim-CNNPolitics
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message3016937/pg1?disclaimer
=1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027388106
http://theerant.yuku.com/reply/837428/Re-Trump-told-truth-Media-erasin
g-evidence#.VlxfdbW8qg0
from 2009 online posts
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/THJTAJ62CEJQDKQ2V





Trump sticks by claim that Muslims were celebrating Sept. 11 attacks in New Jersey: ‘I’m not going to take it back’
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-sticks-story-n-muslims-
cheering-sept-11-article-1.2449684

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Originally posted by JO753:
I think muzlemz dansing in American streets on or after 9/11 iz very unlikely

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