Free speech, anti-discrimination, new ideas, and the right to be offensive by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Free speech, anti-discrimination, new ideas, and the right to be offensive

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, February 27, 2023 09:24
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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 11:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

A student reporter is bullied and harassed by an anti-discrimination demonstration. An instructor organizing the demonstration calls for "some muscle to get this reporter out of here".

After Yale University issues some guidelines about which "offensive" costumes to avoid, and the wife of a professor emailed out this counter opinion. https://www.thefire.org/email-from-erika-christakis-dressing-yourselve
s-email-to-silliman-college-yale-students-on-halloween-costumes/

The professor and his wife are now being threatened by some students, and here (vid below) the professor is being shrieked at by a young women who is sobbing that the campus experience isn't about intellect, but about making a safe "home"

So, freedom of speech or right to offend? Hearing challenging ideas or living in a welcoming "safe space"?

Your opinions?

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 1:32 PM

THGRRI

The professor taught communication (media) at the school. She is now gone and rightfully so.

Look up safe zones SIG, it's where a young adult goes to avoid troubling issues. It's pathetic. It eliminates discussion, learning and debate on college campuses. That professor was trying to create that when she went after the photographer for the school. Another student by the way.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:15 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

What if you're a black student facing constant, and sometimes not-so-subtle racism? In the form (for example) of a truckful of rowdy white boys yelling "N____! N____!" as they drive by? A Native American constantly having to face the "redskin" image? A woman or a gay man who is always treated to demeaning and harassing catcalls and images?

How much responsibility does the university (if any) have for limiting those kinds of incidents? When does "freedom of speech" become harassment and intimidation? What kind of collective response by the targets is allowable? Does "politically correct speech" address the problem? Is there such a thing as "left wing authoritarianism?"

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:29 PM

THGRRI

The story is about a student photographer being allowed to cover the protest. And a professor not only refusing to let him do so but can be heard calling for mussel to help remove him.

It's not about your hypothetical scenarios. That is subjective. The laws for freedom of speech are on the books. As you would say, do the research yourself to present what you wish to present.

What does the law say SIG?

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There are two videos posted. If you want, I'll bring further background information on both of these incidents (and more) but I didn't want to spam the board.

You've stated your opinion on the first video. Further thoughts?

Anyone else?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 3:56 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There are two videos posted. If you want, I'll bring further background information on both of these incidents (and more) but I didn't want to spam the board.

You've stated your opinion on the first video. Further thoughts?

Anyone else?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

Thank you for not spamming the board. We've seen enough of that lately. As for the videos you posted. Check out what I wrote. It covers both topics in the videos. Freedom of speech and the other video about safe zones.

You really need to pay attention to what you are doing.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 4:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

When threatening, demeaning, or harassing behavior is directed AT INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS (either personally like the 'drive-by insult' example, or organizationally like campus slogans) it's not free speech, it's verbal assault.

Free speech is meant to protect free political discussion. Victimizing others by depersonalizing them isn't it.

Personally, I'd give the weight of protection to those who are outnumbered, as long as they're not engaging in threatening, demeaning, or harassing behavior. If they are, they need to be held to account.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 5:48 PM

THGRRI

What Does Free Speech Mean?

Among other cherished values, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.

The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:

“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.”

Freedom of speech includes the right:
• Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
• Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”).
Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
• To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages.
Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
• To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns.
Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
• To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions).
Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
• To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest).
Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).

Freedom of speech does not include the right:
• To incite actions that would harm others (e.g., “[S]hout[ing] ‘fire’ in a crowded theater.”).
Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919).
• To make or distribute obscene materials.
Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).
• To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest.
United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).
• To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration.
Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).
• Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event.
Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).
• Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event.
Morse v. Frederick, __ U.S. __ (2007).

http://www.uscourts.gov/rules-policies

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Wednesday, November 11, 2015 11:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I had a friend at my old retail job that was telling a story about "free speech" while we were on break. He came into our shitty place of work during the day with a friend and some girls and when the girl at the register told them that she wouldn't "serve" them, he and his friend went crazy about it.....

His friend was on his cell phone saying "fuck this, fuck that, yada yada yada...." as they came up to her register. It was the middle of the day, there were kids around and it wasn't a bar.

He kept whining about "freedom of speech" and I told him that he was full of shit.

"Freedom of Speech" is something sacred that we in America have been blessed with that most civilized societies before us never had. Freedom of Speech is the right for American Citizens to say bad things about our politicians, or the direction of our country or any religious shenanigans without the fear of having their heads chopped off for it.

Freedom of Speech is NOT a license to be an ignorant jag-off in the middle of a crowded retail store spouting your uneducated and extremely limited vocabulary in front of other people's children at 3:00PM in the middle of a crowded place.

I know I'm a big offender about that here, but Haken doesn't have rules against the language. As offensive as I may or may not have been all these years here, I've never once been relegated to "Troll Country" even, like Kaneman was (for anyone who remembers him).....

We all know the rules about Free Speech coming into FFF.net, particularly the RWED. We get away with a lot more than most people would or should get away with in civilized society.

Even when I called a certain individual here a very derogatory word that rhymes with Bunt, it wasn't or I wasn't put into Troll Country. That's because she was being a word that rhymes with Bunt.

My pennance was losing more than one friend because of that outburst. It didn't matter that I was right to them. They haven't talked to me for two years after that incident. Maybe they're right for that. My point is, thank you Haken for leaving it up to the proles to decide what is right and wrong.

My big point here is I can't stand it when people go up to the register in stores while they're talking on their cell phones, period. When they're deep in a dirty or inappropriate conversation on top of that for everyone to hear, it makes my blood boil.

Being an asshole on your cellphone and letting the rest of the world hear your 1/2 of the idiot conversation you have does not constitute free speech.

If I can't smoke a fucking cigarette in a bar, you certainly have no right to say words like cocksucker or motherfucker while I'm in line at Wal Mart with my niece.

:)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, November 13, 2015 12:54 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So basically, what we have is people who are willing to violate the free speech rights of others, ostensibly to promote free speech and equality?

Yanno, of all of this, the part that made my head blow off was where that young female protester kept stepping into the reporter's space, so they were touching, and then she would whine loudly "Stop touching me!".

She DID know she was being filmed, right? And that the video showed what a dishonest jagoff she really was? I think my visceral reaction is that her little tactic was 100% passive aggressive.

There most assuredly IS a problem with racism (sexism, homophobia etc) everywhere. Employers are required to make sure that their workspace isn't hostile to any of the "protected groups" (which doesn't include white straight males, who I guess are fair game.) Seems to me that demanding some level of respect among students, co-workers etc ... no matter WHO they are ... should be a no-brainer: Don't threaten people. No name-calling. Violations of these codes of conduct should have consequences.

But when people are DISCUSSING a topic ... say, Halloween costumes ... intimidation shouldn't be part of it. There is a line between challenging someone intellectually and intimidating them physically.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, November 13, 2015 1:01 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So basically, what we have is people who are willing to violate the free speech rights of others, ostensibly to promote free speech and equality?

Yanno, of all of this, the part that made my head blow off was where that young female protester kept stepping into the reporter's space, so they were touching, and then she would whine loudly "Stop touching me!".

She DID know she was being filmed, right? And that the video showed what a dishonest jagoff she really was? I think my visceral reaction is that her little tactic was 100% passive aggressive.

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We agree and this is what zealots don't recognize about their own behaviors. It applies to all but themselves or their preferred State or country.

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Monday, February 27, 2023 9:24 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

‘The Dahl Estate Should Be Ashamed’: Salman Rushdie Blasts ‘Absurd’ Censorship of Roald Dahl

https://news.yahoo.com/dahl-estate-ashamed-salman-rushdie-141025409.ht
ml

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