Why I don't fear a Trump Presidency by 1kiki

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Trump is not his supporters.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:30 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... that I'm willing to turn the table over and vote for Trump, if that's my final ballot choice."

Trump is definitely playing to the republican discontent that the party - even the TP branch - has made promises about, only to snub the people over and over who believed their promises and who supported them.

But Trump SHOULD be smart enough to know that he will get nothing from either the democrats or the institutionalized republicans (those who depend on the stability of the institutions they inhabit, which is all of them, even the TPers) if he even intends in the slightest to walk his talk. On top of lack of support he can assume the majority in congress and the republican party as a whole will try to torpedo him the same way they did Obama and 'Clinton the First' before him - endless veto threats, investigations, etc.

Unless.

Unless he gives them something. And that something could be to sign every harebrained bill they can pass.

I can see that. And I can see that you can't count on Trump to mean what he says during this phase of the election process, or during the presidential campaign. What he says could mean as much as zero.

And I can see another reason for Trump to want to be in the WH besides ego and besides a nice fat opportunity for national-scale graft. On the international scale Trump is a two-bit rube player. At most he's worth a few million, while the next level count their wealth in the hundreds of millions, even tens of billions. But the WH is the door to those really big leagues. All you have to do is support their agenda. Or maybe even just not block it. Tony Blair found that out, and I suspect Obama did too.

I've read that a lot of Bernie's supporters will stay home if he doesn't get the nomination. What a wasted opportunity. They should go out and vote in droves - not for Trump - but for the Green Party nominee. Or the Peace and Freedom nominee. Or even the Communist Party nominee. ANYone that shows the democrats they COULD have had those votes if they hadn't pissed on their constituents with a spying militarist neo-CON business-toady. Again.

My approach will be to vote for Bernie in the primary assuming he's still running. And to vote for someone on the left - which means not Hillary - in the election.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 3:41 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump is not his supporters.

And his supporters aren't ordinary, either. There is a list of celebrities for Trump.
www.bestyling.com/celebrities-support-donald-trump/1/

Much like Trump’s lesser known supporters, but with more money, it is a list of ass-holes and dumb asses. Dennis Rodman, one Trump supporter, is also "a friend for life" of North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rodman#North_Korea_visits

Hulk Hogan is on the list of celebrity Trump supporters. Hogan was awarded $115 Million this week because his sex life is an embarrassment to humanity.
www.nytimes.com/2016/03/19/business/media/gawker-hulk-hogan-verdict.ht
ml

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 5:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump supporters have a huge disconnect from Trump.

For them, Trump is the "reset" button on American politics, the "none of the above" box on the ballot. Trump speaks their language and he's promising what they want to hear: Make American great again. Take America back to the day when things were going better. Remove ourselves from the international web of agreements that are sapping our jobs and our economy.

TRUMP is running out of ego, like he does everything. Many times he succeeds brilliantly, but sometimes he fails.

Personally, I'm so disgusted with "business as usual", and so viscerally and immediately repelled by Hillary, that I'm willing to turn the table over and vote for Trump, if that's my final ballot choice. In the meantime, my vote is for Sanders. It's a hopeless vote because the Democratic Party establishment super delegates and their ever-compliant "liberal" media have already cast their ballots for Hillary- so much for democracy!

If the Republican establishment does anything other than nominate the winner of the primaries, that signals the end of democracy in the USA.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

Trump has managed to bankrupt 2 or 3 times so far. Are we willing to let his next time be American bankrupcy?

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 8:14 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump has managed to bankrupt 2 or 3 times so far. Are we willing to let his next time be American bankruptcy?

Hate to tell you this, but the USA is already bankrupt. We have nothing backing our currency except our mighty military.

If you listen to TPTB as they squirm about Trump, you won't hear about "bankrupting" the USA, but mostly about the free trade deals that are so near and precious to their hearts. The last "how can we derail Trump" meeting http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/aei-world-forum-donald-trump_us_56
ddbd38e4b0ffe6f8ea125d?tn50o1or included quite a few large hi-tech reps: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, Larry Page, and Sean Parker, whose main interests in stopping Trump have to do with the intellectual property provisions of the TTP and the TTIP, and secondarily with the B1 visas that allow them to import top-notch programmers CHEAP! from India. http://thenextweb.com/entrepreneur/2014/06/11/7-us-startup-visa-option
s-international-founders/

I don't expect Trump to build a wall. I'll be extremely pleased if all he manages to do is stop the TPP and TTIP deals, and not get us in any more covert destabilizations, drone attacks, or military confrontations during his tenure in office. If he manages that, that's a lot.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 8:17 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Trump has managed to bankrupt 2 or 3 times so far. Are we willing to let his next time be American bankruptcy?

"Yes," the easily fooled say. Trump is unnaturally good at closing a deal with his patsy. But it is doubtful that half the voters will be charmed by him.

About his business experience:
In the Plaza Hotel deal, Mr. Trump demonstrated both strengths (an ability to charm or strong-arm, as the occasion required) and weaknesses (a kind of hungry impatience that left him searching for new trophies as soon as one had been acquired). His methods as a political candidate mirror his methods as an executive, say those who have dealt with the latter and seen the former. In fact, the more you know about Mr. Trump’s past, the more his run for high office looks like an effort to close the biggest deal of his life.

“He has the ability to imagine what the other party wants him to be and then be that person,” said Michael D’Antonio. “He presents the Trump that will work in the moment.”
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-donald-trumps-plaza-deal-reveals-
about-his-white-house-bid/

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:14 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"I'll be extremely pleased if all he manages to do is stop the TPP and TTIP deals, and not get us in any more covert destabilizations, drone attacks, or military confrontations during his tenure in office."

That's assuming he means what he says.

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Saturday, March 19, 2016 10:10 PM

THGRRI

Quote:

SIG

my vote is for Sanders. It's a hopeless vote because the Democratic Party establishment super delegates and their ever-compliant "liberal" media have already cast their ballots for Hillary- so much for democracy!

If the Republican establishment does anything other than nominate the winner of the primaries, that signals the end of democracy in the USA.

Twice here you suggest it is the end of democracy in the USA. Just to show you that you are clueless. All you are looking at is states won and delegates. Hillary Clinton to date has captured two million more votes than ( as much as I like him ) Bernie. When all is said and done, that number is going to be much higher.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:02 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Trump has managed to bankrupt 2 or 3 times so far. Are we willing to let his next time be American bankruptcy? - JEWELSTAITEFAN:

"Yes," the easily fooled say. Trump is unnaturally good at closing a deal with his patsy. But it is doubtful that half the voters will be charmed by him.
About his business experience:
In the Plaza Hotel deal, Mr. Trump demonstrated both strengths (an ability to charm or strong-arm, as the occasion required) and weaknesses (a kind of hungry impatience that left him searching for new trophies as soon as one had been acquired). His methods as a political candidate mirror his methods as an executive, say those who have dealt with the latter and seen the former. In fact, the more you know about Mr. Trump’s past, the more his run for high office looks like an effort to close the biggest deal of his life.
“He has the ability to imagine what the other party wants him to be and then be that person,” said Michael D’Antonio. “He presents the Trump that will work in the moment.”
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/what-donald-trumps-plaza-deal-reveals-
about-his-white-house-bid/ - SECOND

You must think I like Trump, or something.

I don't. It's just that I hate Hillary more than I fear Trump.

I know what Hillary (and all the other "establishment" candidates except Bernie but including Republicans) will do, and she will fail on the few extremely critical issues that I'm voting on: free trade, and more war. In my humble opinion, those two issues are THE most important issue facing us right now:

1) More "free trade" will have a long-term, fatal effect on our economy (something the international financials who pay Hillary don't mind, because they can make money on the USA economy tanking as well as on the USA economy rising) and

2) Whether we get to WWIII or not.

We can deal with global climate shift provided that we have sovereign control over our economy, and provided that we manage not to blow the world up.

I don't know what Trump will do. But, like I said, I know what Hillary will do, and I'd rather vote for an uncertain future than a certain disaster.

As far as Trump is concerned, it's interesting and amusing to watch him schmooze an audience. And that's what he's doing: He tells a lot of stories, he "loves" everyone, he tells his audience what fine people they are and what a great city they live in and about his experiences there and how wonderful it was.

The ONE thing that he and his audience overlap on, so far, is his overweening confidence. His supporters want to feel confident again, instead of suffering through the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that they've been feeling for the past 15 years or so. Trump offers them a figure to shelter under and follow. That won't work for a lot of people. When Trump's ability to schmooze an audience conflicts with his mania, that will be an interesting day.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 2:02 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

You must think I like Trump, or something.

I don't. It's just that I hate Hillary more than I fear Trump.

. . .

I don't know what Trump will do. But, like I said, I know what Hillary will do, and I'd rather vote for an uncertain future than a certain disaster.

You could know what both Trump and Hillary will do, but you can't know using your feelings.
Trump: http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000560-an-analysis-of-donald-t
rumps-tax-plan.pdf
Hillary: http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000638-an-analysis-of-hillary-
clintons-tax-proposals.pdf

March 20 1:56 am
Trump Didn’t Put the Con in Conservatism
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/20/trump-didnt-put-the-con-in
-conservatism/

I wanted to note something about the reactions to the John Harwood interview with Paul Ryan, which are very relevant to understanding the Republican mess. www.cnbc.com/2016/03/17/another-dem-like-obama-our-best-days-are-behin
d-us-ryan.html

Liberals have been jumping, rightly, on Ryan’s extraordinary dismissal of any attempt to look at the distribution of tax cuts [mostly to the rich] as “ridiculous.” But conservative writers — even those who are relatively moderate, or at least try to seem that way — clearly still view Ryan as an almost saintly figure: serious, intellectually honest, and compassionate toward the poor.

He isn’t, of course. His various budgets all have the same basic outline: huge tax cuts for the rich combined with savage cuts in benefits for the poor, with the net effect being to increase, not reduce the budget deficit. But he pretends that they’re deficit-reduction proposals by claiming that he will raise trillions in revenue by closing unspecified loopholes and achieve trillions more in unspecified savings. In other words, Ryan has been playing a con game in which he uses magic asterisks to mask a reverse Robin Hood agenda — take from the poor, give to the rich — as deficit hawkery.

This isn’t hard to see, and it has been pointed out many times. Back in 2011, at the height of media Ryanolatry, the truth even became slightly mainstream, as reporters started to point out the absurdities of his assumptions.

But moderate Republican pundits can’t, won’t see the obvious. For them it’s all about affect — how he comes across — which is also why they saw tax-slashing, war-starting Marco Rubio as somehow a break from the failures of the Bush years.

So when these commentators lament the blindness of primary voters, their willingness to be taken in by an obvious con, they might want to take a look in the mirror. Is it really the con that bothers them, or just the vulgarity?

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Whether or not Trump means what he says, only time and circumstance will tell.

But I believe it's a tactical mistake to move forward without a Plan B, or at least Scenario B written about 'what if'. Second has written such a scenario that I think is believable, where we get not only a Trump WH on the take, but also a republican party rampaging in Congress.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:15 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

As of March 19, 2016

Yes, Clinton's Gotten The Most Votes, But GOP Has More Overall
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/19/471102628/yes-clintons-gotten-the-most-v
otes-but-gop-has-more-overall

Looking at Hillary v Bernie, Hillary has 59% of the democratic votes so far, which is not a blowout lead. OTOH due to the very UNdemocratic practices of 'winner-take-all' and 'superdelegates', along with 'proportional by DISTRICT' (and we know how gerrymandered they can be), I'd say the democratic process is already broken. Even if Bernie gets more than 50% of the popular vote, I suspect he'll end up with less than 50% of the delegates.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:24 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
As of March 19, 2016

Yes, Clinton's Gotten The Most Votes, But GOP Has More Overall
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/19/471102628/yes-clintons-gotten-the-most-v
otes-but-gop-has-more-overall

You both proved my point and missed my point. Go back and see if with all that reading you claim to do you can figure it out. I'll give you a clue. I am responding to what SIG says in the post.

As for the GOP having more people show up at the polls in the primaries it means nothing at this point.

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Sunday, March 20, 2016 4:26 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Troll, much?

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Monday, March 21, 2016 10:53 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm willing to turn the table over and vote for Trump, if that's my final ballot choice.

So Sig announces she's going to be voting for Trump. Is this the point where we are supposed to act surprised?

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Monday, March 21, 2016 1:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Whether or not Trump means what he says, only time and circumstance will tell.

But I believe it's a tactical mistake to move forward without a Plan B, or at least Scenario B written about 'what if'. Second has written such a scenario that I think is believable, where we get not only a Trump WH on the take, but also a republican party rampaging in Congress. - KIKI

Hmmm... I didn't get this out of what SECOND wrote. Nothing even close. Can you explain your logic as to how you derived this conclusion?

Also, what do you mean by "a Plan B"? Where is this supposed to be implemented? During the primaries? At the general election? Afterwards? I can't even imagine what a Plan B would entail, please explain.

----------

As far as Trump is concerned, I've forced myself to sit through several of his speeches, from beginning to end. The media's portrayal of what Trump says is not what Trump says.

The media focuses on racism (by the way, being Mexican or Muslim is not a "race" so the term "racism" doesn't apply) but what The Donald talks about MOST .... after schmoozing the crowd for 10-15 minutes .... is TRADE DEALS. After that is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

In other words: The flight of jobs and the gutting of the American economy on the altar of free trade.

I'm not the only one who noticed the disconnect between what the media says about Trump and what Trump says. In The Guardian:

Quote:
Last week, I decided to watch several hours of Trump speeches for myself. I saw the man ramble and boast and threaten and even seem to gloat when protesters were ejected from the arenas in which he spoke. I was disgusted by these things, as I have been disgusted by Trump for 20 years. But I also noticed something surprising. In each of the speeches I watched, Trump spent a good part of his time talking about an entirely legitimate issue, one that could even be called leftwing.

Yes, Donald Trump talked about trade. In fact, to judge by how much time he spent talking about it, trade may be his single biggest concern – not white supremacy. Not even his plan to build a wall along the Mexican border, the issue that first won him political fame. He did it again during the debate on 3 March: asked about his political excommunication by Mitt Romney, he chose to pivot and talk about … trade.

It seems to obsess him: the destructive free-trade deals our leaders have made, the many companies that have moved their production facilities to other lands, the phone calls he will make to those companies’ CEOs in order to threaten them with steep tariffs unless they move back to the US.

Trump embellished this vision with another favorite leftwing idea: under his leadership, the government would “start competitive bidding in the drug industry”. (“We don’t competitively bid!” he marveled – another true fact, a legendary boondoggle brought to you by the George W Bush administration.) Trump extended the critique to the military-industrial complex, describing how the government is forced to buy lousy but expensive airplanes thanks to the power of industry lobbyists.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/07/donald-trump-why-
americans-support

Many Americans realize, at a gut level, that we don't have a economy (a system of production and consumption) anymore. Consumption? Yes. Production? Not so much! It's been outsourced to China and Mexico, or handed off to illegal immigrants at much lower wages.

Unless a nation is able to control the flow of goods, people, and money across its border, it has no sovereign control of its economy. It's the same message as Marine Le Pen and other Euroskeptics, and they're right. All you have to do is look at how Greece is being crucified by the ECB to see how loss of sovereignty works.

There are no manufacturing jobs, and that is a precarious place to be, not only for Americans as individuals but also for the nation as a whole.

That attack on "free trade" is what's driving establishment Republicans AND Democrats crazy - except Bernie.

Bernie is my first choice. Trump is my second.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Monday, March 21, 2016 1:12 PM

REAVERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:
Originally posted by REAVERFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
So you think the Republicans will become dictators like Barry? I do agree that if Trump wins in a landslide the Republicans in D.C. will want to be his new best friends. The anarchist in me loves watching you libs become unhinged, he's exposing you people as the lunatics you are. Now go to a Trump rally and get punched out by a Trump supporter.
Not surprising you take pleasure in the thought of violence against people you disagree with. That's what fascists do. You fit right in with the other racist Trumpbots.

By calling me a racist you're trying to shame me, sorry pal that crap isn't working anymore. Now instead of backing away we're telling you race baiters to fuck off. Or in the case of race baiters at a Trump rally, they're getting their asses kicked.
You absolutely are a racist.

Trump gave you permission to be open about it.

Go to a Trump rally and say that to a supporters face, then he or she will punch yours. The common man and woman isn't putting up with your crap anymore. Now go have a nice salad, put on a chick flick and go fuck yourself.

More of the bigotry you and your fellow Trumpettes feel so free to express now. Are you going to a Trump rally soon? Ready to beat up some n*ggers, are you?

That's what you endorse.

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Monday, March 21, 2016 2:32 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Signy - entertain for a minute the idea that Trump means nothing of what he says.

My take was that Trump meant at least SOME of it:

"Unless you think republicans will give Trump majority support in both houses I don't see him getting much done.
Let's say he wants to get a bill passed to build a wall. Who does he go to for support? Or he wants to get a budget passed. Who will pass it? Not generically, but specifically. Rand? Rubio? McConnell? Can you name a single republican in the House with enough pull to get something passed? He has to go to party-identified republicans, and those are the exact same people he's been spitting on.
Maybe my imagination is limited, but I see nothing but roadblocks ahead for him."

Second believes that Trump has both a personal agenda for wanting to be in the WH, and that his political stance would be to promote the republican establishment agenda, ie that he means nothing of what he says, that's it's the same big con-job republican politicians have been pulling on their base all these years, and that republican voters have been falling for all these years. "... Trump would be signing every law the Republican establishment wants and double crossing all those voters that had believed he would really look after the working class voter. Trump screwed anybody he could while in business. He won’t stop in the White House."

What I'm saying is that, if there isn't a Plan B in case the Trump presidency isn't as advertised (and I can't think of one at the moment), at least consider a Scenario B before going down that path.

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Monday, January 2, 2017 8:02 PM

So why did he win?
a mix of things, left, right and conspiracy?

maybe the left will get there eventually

and finally some
MSNBC

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Tuesday, January 3, 2017 10:17 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Donald Trump has made it crystal clear that he doesn't care about conflict-of-interest allegations and plans to use the presidency to boost his family's wealth by as much as the traffic will bear. Republicans in Congress have responded by making it clear that this is fine with them, and now the House is making it equally clear that they don't intend to allow any serious investigations of corruption among their own members. It's going to be a free-for-all, and nobody with any subpoena power will ever be allowed to touch any Republican.

I didn't expect them to be quite so obvious about this. But apparently they just don't care anymore:

Quote:
House Republicans voted Monday to significantly curtail the power of an independent ethics office set up in 2008 in the aftermath of corruption scandals that sent three members of Congress to jail.

The move to weaken the Office of Congressional Ethics was not public until late Monday, when Representative Robert Goodlatte, Republican of Virginia and chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, announced that the House Republican Conference had approved the change with no advance public notice or debate.

www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/with-no-warning-house-republica
ns-vote-to-hobble-independent-ethics-office.html?_r=0

Here are 6 things House Republicans want the Office of Congressional Ethics (OCE) to STOP doing:

1. The OCE should no longer be independent. Instead, it will be under the House’s Committee on Ethics, which is run by members of Congress.

2. The office will no longer be able to accept anonymous tips from whistleblowers.

3. The ethics office must stop any investigation if the House ethics committee tells them to.

4. The ethics office cannot investigate any tips on misconduct that took place before Jan. 3. 2011.

5. The office can no longer talk about its findings — even hire a spokesperson.

6. OCE cannot investigate any criminal cases or turn allegations of corruption over to law enforcement.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/house-republicans-vote-rein-ser
ious-investigation-republicans

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Thursday, December 2, 2021 9:54 AM

Trump voices old grievances in freewheeling interview with Farage

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/01/donald-trump-nigel-far
age-interview

US, Mexico reportedly reach deal on restarting Trump-era asylum policy

https://nypost.com/2021/12/02/us-mexico-reportedly-reach-deal-on-resta
rting-trump-era-asylum-policy/

The Bannon 'War Room' Radio

Nigel Farage On His One On One Exclusive With President Trump
https://rumble.com/vq2msz-nigel-farage-on-his-one-on-one-exclusive-wit
h-president-trump.html

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Tuesday, April 4, 2023 8:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

If Trump was president, he'd have congressional opposition from BOTH the democrats AND the republicans.

He would literally not be able to get anything done.

Solid Prediction

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Tuesday, July 23, 2024 11:18 AM