REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Putin accuses US of meddling into FIFA affairs

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 15, 2016 09:33
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Sunday, June 7, 2015 9:34 AM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
This discussion is very similar to today's Dilbert comic http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07 This is what it says:

I'm Dick, from the Internet. I'm the guy who always says ridiculous, angry stuff. I misinterpret every comment you make as an absurd absolute and then I attack it like you are a moron.

Dilbert: That doesn't sound fun.

Dick: Wow. So you are saying everything in the world needs to be fun. Maybe you should do some research before you embarrass yourself like that again.

Dilbert: Hey! You ARE the Guy from the Internet!

Dick: I'm sending you Five Links that are not as relevant as I think they are.

Dilbert: You're famous!

The surprising reason the US is prosecuting the FIFA case
www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8677525/fifa-corruption-us-prosecution


That sums it up nicely TWO, well done.


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Sunday, June 7, 2015 9:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, G, it's nice to see some things never change, and that you're diving in with both feet into your standard response.


Quote:
In addition, you don't know anything about the American justice system ... or you don't care much about it.
"Innocent until proven guilty"? Have you heard of it? So, yeah- Blatter = innocent, until shown otherwise. -SIGNY

Wrong. He was president of FIFA for 19 years while all of this was happening - $150 million dollars by current counts, of fraud, corruption and bribery - so he is very fucking guilty. If he's lucky it will only be gross incompetence, but he will still be very guilty.
Judge, jury, executioner- that's you!
I see tho, that you're an equal-opportunity asshole, since you apply this same frame of mind to Russia (INVADES UKRAINE!), Putin (DEMON!), Blatter (GUILTY!) ... pretty much anyone you've decided that you dislike.

Quote:
My god. You're such a fool. Time and time again, you accept a nation's ALLEGATIONS .... - SIGNY

I do? Which nation and which ones? Otherwise you're just making shit up again.
Hmm... the United States' allegations of course. Allegations about Blatter (who BTW hasn't been indicted yet, assuming that he ever is). Allegations about that "invasion" of Ukraine, allegations about MH17. Did you believe crap about Iraqi WMD? The crap about Qaddafi? Syria's Assad?

It's not as if it hasn't been pointed out to you several dozen times that you run far ahead actual evidence, and that maybe you should pretend that you're on a jury, and sift the evidence BEFORE you come to a judgment? Or at least check out the evidence at SOME point in your opinion-process? Do you think that might even be possible?

Quote:
... a nation, BTW, which has been shown time and time again to lie to achieve its ends ... and you never think TWICE about it. (Heck, you never even think ONCE about it.) -SIGNY
You can't possibly know how many times I've thought about something, so you're just making shit up again.
Well, if you do any thinking at all before you form an opinion, it's remarkable ineffective. RAPPY-like, one might say. Based on emotion, prejudice, and a durable belief-system, and resistant to contrary information, and resistant to learning.

Just OOC, G, have you changed your mind about anything in the past five years? Because if you haven't, you're not in touch with the real world.

Quote:
You assume that Blatter- who BTW hasn't even been indicted - is guilty, just because Putin said something about him! - SIGNY

Ha! What? Where do you get that? You appear to be making shit up again. I could care less what Vlad thinks about Blatter - it's a minor, amusing side story at best.
You spent some words on the topic.

Quote:
"Must be guilt by association, huh?"-SIGNY

If you say so.
Glad that's settled.

Quote:
You represent the worst of America, son: stupid, arrogant, hypocritical, moralistic, and vengeful. The same kind of unjust, unlawful, imperialist asshole that Kind George had become. The kind of powerful prig that our Founding Fathers were trying to prevent.-SIGNY

O My - and you call me a bully!
Hmmm ... I think this is the source of your tirade.

Well, you are. I'll still bet you were a bully in grade school, and you're definitely an "American-style" bully here ... one who thinks that he is justified in advocating whatever he feels like, no matter how many people are killed or how unjust he's being, because it's the American way.

Quote:
Yanno, I learned a lot about you from this little comment that you made to KIKI:

Justice is supposed to be the same for everyone or it's not justice, it's something else. Don't you agree?-KIKI
Are you really that childish?-G
You think justice is childish. -SIGNY

Obviously you learned nothing and have no intentions of doing so. To be accurate, I asked Kiki if she could be so childish asking such a grade school question. Everyone deserves equal justice - even you clowns.

If that's what you believe, then why didn't you say so?

And more importantly, if that's how you feel, then why don't you practice it?

No, I think your first answer truly reflects how you feel, because you demonstrate your injustice in almost every thread that you post including this one. Basically, you are exactly what I said you are - not because of one mistakenly honest comment, but because of what you post everywhere.

I want to emphasize: I checked back on who said what in this thread, and I DID correct myself: you were right, I was wrong. In the beginning part of the thread, you did NOT misrepresent what I said, so thank you for that. Credit where credit is due.

-----------------------

GEEZER

Quote:
Second, I didn't defend Putin.

QUOTED BY GEEZER
Quote:
Don't worry, I'm sure Americans will find SOME way to "make Russia pay" for FIFA corruption! (And that's a KPO Prediction®.)
THAT'S a "defense" of Putin???

I was merely making the independent comment that - of all of the bad actors and nationalities involved throughout the decades, the USA action seems well-timed to be aimed at Russia. It's a prediction on USA actions, and we'll be able to determine whether it's a good prediction or not based on what happens.

------------

EVERYONE

Yanno what? this whole topic is of minor interest to me. I noticed what I thought was convenient timing, is all. Arrests just before the G7 meeting and another way to impose a different kind of sanction on Russia, and just after Ramadi fell. It's not beyond our government (or any government) to shine a laser-pointer in front of the public and get them to chase after shit that doesn't matter. (In fact, I've noticed quite a bit of laser-pointing in Russia lately, but that's another story.) And it's not beyond America to go well past its purview in "enforcing the law".

Not saying anything about Putin, and not saying anything about FIFA (yes, it should be cleaned up), but making a sideways observation about what's happening in the international context. Also, still standing by my prediction.

Carry on.




--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 11:31 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

G

It's a head scratcher how those 2 clowns can't even find the right side of the FIFA scandal - you'd think that would be impossible.

In the case of FIFA they are defending the indefensible; why? All research suggests FIFA has been corrupt forever. Perhaps it was because of the riots in Brazil. Perhaps it was due to Cutter being on course to having 4,000 migrant worker deaths, while building the stadium for the 2022 cup. I think it was both and then some why the world’s most conscientious countries decided to take action.

SIG and 1kiki scream the loudest for defending the meek against the man, yet they have taken the path of mimicking Putin’s concerns and not giving much voice to the 4,000. Since it is not Putin’s focus it is not theirs. So why give credence to any concerns they voice about power and corruption in the future. Especially as we witness they only seem to care about the meek, when it can be wielded as a weapon against the United States or who they deem enemy's of Russia. As they warp and distort the truth in subjective posts to spread their bull about others. The first thing I always looked for with SIG and 1kiki was their agenda. It’s always there just under the surface and always the same; Russia.

This thread along with the Russia invades Ukraine thread, is a window into SIG and 1kiki’s view of the world’s problems. They have shown over and over again, neither facts nor consideration for the truth matters. Their voice is skewed and political to the extreme for Russia.



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Sunday, June 7, 2015 11:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
In the case of FIFA they are defending the indefensible; why?
Lying again??? Why?



--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 12:23 PM

THGRRI


Bottom line, thank god that someone is focusing on a system so corrupt thousands are dying while others look the other way.


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Sunday, June 7, 2015 1:59 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Actually, as is often the case with you, the complete opposite is true. First you not-so-cleverly singled out only a part of the entire investigation, the part that was about something else.

Actually, as is often the case with you, you demonstrated a complete lack of reading ability, thinking ability, and honesty. I know that some Brazilians (yes, more than 1) are being investigated. What I'll point out AGAIN - for the fourth (fifth? sixth?) time is that no charges have been laid about the BRAZILIAN WORLD CUP EVENT. Since there is no way I could be any more clear and explicit about that, perhaps you could be a little less illiterate, stupid and dishonest.

And here I'll repeat my question - if the US is SO interested in justice, why didn't THAT EVENT make it bestir itself and investigate?

And since you never even attempted to address this point (except with pure personally directed snark) here this is again as well:

kiki - Justice is supposed to be the same for everyone or it's not justice, it's something else. Don't you agree?
G- Are you really that childish?

Are you really that corrupt? Do you really think that the police power of the state should be selectively wielded for political ends?



SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 4:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm seeing a lot of 'if' coming off of that ..

Estadao CLAIMS that sources close to the corruption investigation being led by the Department of Justice have said that last summer’s tournament in Brazil MAY be “EXAMINED”.

caps and highlighted to help you understand your own source - note CLAIMS not QUOTES, MAY not WILL, and EXAMINED not INVESTIGATED, and as I'll point out again for - how many times? - not the trigger that moved the US to get 'justice'

And the true measure of equal justice (is there supposed to be any other kind 'G'?) - actual charges against the full extent of the Brazilian event corruption - a distant mirage.


I'll make a prediction: the Brazilian event will be "examined" only enough to allow a vastly reduced plea bargain, in order to get enough dirt on the 'REAL' injustice - Russia.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 5:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


You may recognize this from page 1:



"Every nation which has dreams of hosting the World Cup should make public the attempted shakedown. After all, THEY are the victims, are they not?"

Well, it's like this. The countries are like abused, but dependent, children. If one goes public it gets no dinner ... or breakfast or lunch, or possibly any more food, ever. And the rest benefit from improved odds. A significant number would have to agree to do this together - enough countries that it would be sure to bring the system down entirely rather than merely provoke punishment. But there's the next step: where do they tell their tale?

That corruption has been ultimately overlooked in the past, and incurred no effective response, even with far more serious instances. Instances that SHOULD have warranted a major response. like Brazil Countries read the tea-leaves right. Authorities don't care. That corruption by itself is surely an acceptable circumstance, as proven by past history. The countries couldn't depend on any authorities to fix the system. So even if they were to complain as a group - to whom should they turn? On whom could they depend?



Also, you're right Signy - the DoJ doesn't get involved unless there's a political reason to do so. In this case ... Putin

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 5:05 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Meanwhile:


I'm seeing a lot of 'if' coming off of that ..

Estadao CLAIMS that sources close to the corruption investigation being led by the Department of Justice have said that last summer’s tournament in Brazil MAY be “EXAMINED”.

caps and highlighted to help you understand your own source - note CLAIMS not QUOTES, MAY not WILL, and "EXAMINED" (their quotes, not mine) not INVESTIGATED, and as I'll point out again for - how many times? - not the trigger that moved the US to get 'justice'

And the true measure of equal justice (is there supposed to be any other kind 'G'?) - actual charges against the full extent of the Brazilian event corruption - a distant mirage.


I'll make a prediction: the Brazilian event will be "examined" only enough to allow a vastly reduced plea bargain, in order to get enough dirt on the 'REAL' injustice - Russia.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 8:19 PM

THGRRI


G.

I have been following your posts with 1kiki. Again no answer to your questions. I have seen you do this with 1kiki and sig for as long as I can remember. I know you knew she would respond the way she did; why bother with those two.

I say start a thread and ignore them. Let's try and attract some decent folk looking for an honest discussion. Let's work towards restoring the real world thread to a better time. This shit with these two gotta stop sometime.


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Sunday, June 7, 2015 10:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


- How do you know Brazil WC isn't being investigated?

Maybe you should read your own links??

- How would any of us here know why or if they are?

Maybe you should read your own links??

- BONUS Russian Question: If you think there such an obvious imperative, why didn't Russia do something?

Maybe you should read my posts??

But I'll give you my argument - again. I have NOT claimed FIFA is innocent. I have NOT claimed Russia is innocent. My problem is that the US - and you, THUUGR, kpo, and 2nd - are claiming to be following some kind of moral imperative in the name of justice. Or, to accurately portray your version: 'justice'.

Prove to me that this moral imperative is genuine. Prove to me that YOUR claim for justice is not just yet another lie from you. Show me that the US is working in the interests of fair, impartial, proportionate justice. That thing you think is "childish" to hold as a standard (and btw, how very Soviet of you).

Because - as I have stated for a dozen posts by now - it looks like the US has no problem ignoring VAST injustice - as it did with Brazil. It only acts when it can wield state police power to achieve a political aim (and btw, how very Soviet of it).

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 7, 2015 10:19 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
G.

I have been following your posts with 1kiki. Again no answer to your questions. I have seen you do this with 1kiki and sig for as long as I can remember. I know you knew she would respond the way she did; why bother with those two.

I say start a thread and ignore them. Let's try and attract some decent folk looking for an honest discussion. Let's work towards restoring the real world thread to a better time. This shit with these two gotta stop sometime.



I'm all for that - fact is it really was not my intention to engage those 2 any longer than this weekend. It was fun to pop back in and see a thread from Geezer about WCup soccer and FIFA and Putin, couldn't help myself since it's been a great find for me (soccer). Those 2 will be forever lost in their own head space.


I'm sure there are a lot of people who would be interested in some honest chat from time to time. It has to be a great turn off to look in and see what actually happens here. All the lies and distortions. Sig and 1kiki can be ignored and warning labels attached to them when they post. There are many subjects that I like discussing including what's wrong with the USA. I just can't stomach those two. Again it doesn't mean we can't open up legit conversations while ignoring them. It may attract others back the these threads.


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Monday, June 8, 2015 12:34 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Maybe you should read your own links??


Idiot - I didn't ask you what I thought, I asked you to see what you thought - NM.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Maybe you should read my posts??


Not an answer, just another dodge - NM.

Weekend is over, and so is my interest in communicating with you Signym any further. Go ahead, make a desperate attempt to keep the conversation alive by asking another one of your inane, teenager questions... "so, if you are rooting for the US Women's soccer team in this world cup, then you must obviously think poor people should ground up and fed to rich Americans..."


I look forward to many pleasant discussions with you moving forward G. Time permitting I will try and respond to your posts and hope that sig and 1kiki learn from more and more of us not responding to their nonsense.


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Monday, June 8, 2015 1:35 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

I look forward to many pleasant discussions with you moving forward G. Time permitting I will try and respond to your posts and hope that sig and 1kiki learn from more and more of us not responding to their nonsense.



Me too, T.

I have to warn you : I hate politics!


Not a problem for me. Pick your topics, I'll give them a go.


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Monday, June 8, 2015 1:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


- How do you know Brazil WC isn't being investigated?

Maybe you should read your own links??

- Idiot - I didn't ask you what I thought, I asked you to see what you thought.

You asked me how did I know. I knew by reading your links, which stated that the US may possibly look into the Brazil WC in the future. Which I then quoted, and discussed. Hence, according to your link, and by commonly understood English, as a POTENTIAL FUTURE event it hasn't happened yet and it's not happening now.

So - Maybe you should read your own links??



- BONUS Russian Question: If you think there such an obvious imperative, why didn't Russia do something?

Maybe you should read my posts??

- Not an answer, just another dodge

Then let me just quote myself where I answered your question:
But I'll give you my argument - again. I have NOT claimed FIFA is innocent. I have NOT claimed Russia is innocent. My problem is that the US - and you, THUUGR, kpo, and 2nd - are claiming to be following some kind of moral imperative in the name of justice. Or, to accurately portray your version: 'justice'.

Prove to me that this moral imperative is genuine. Prove to me that YOUR claim for justice is not just yet another lie from you. Show me that the US is working in the interests of fair, impartial, proportionate justice. That thing you think is "childish" to hold as a standard (and btw, how very Soviet of you).

Because - as I have stated for a dozen posts by now - it looks like the US has no problem ignoring VAST injustice - as it did with Brazil. It only acts when it can wield state police power to achieve a political aim (and btw, how very Soviet of it)

So - Maybe you should read my posts??


SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, June 8, 2015 1:55 PM

THGRRI


Warning; two Russian trolls have entered this thread.

SIGNYM and 1KIKI are a problem in this thread because they are Russian trolls. They back whomever Russia backs and have shown themselves as purveyors’ of disinformation. Their posts will be skewed in ways not always discernable. Engage with them at your own risk. I chose not to.



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Tuesday, June 9, 2015 7:57 PM

THGRRI



Russia, Qatar could lose World Cup hosting rights if bribery proven, says FIFA official

"FIFA, the international governing body for soccer, is reeling from recent criminal charges by U.S. law enforcement against nine FIFA members and five sports marketing executives, as well as guilty pleas and cooperation agreements from several other soccer insiders."


http://fireflyfans.net/mreply.aspx?mid=999000

I got 5 bucks says bribery is proven. Meanwhile;

Online petition targets Coca-Cola over Qatar World Cup human rights abuses

"The 17-year-old website, which has 28 million members according to a Care2 spokeswoman, endorsed a petition that began June 2 which asks soft drink giant Coca-Cola to withdraw its $30 million FIFA sponsorship unless Qatar addresses its alleged human rights abuses in advance of the soccer tournament."

I have another 5 bucks that says Coke stands to lose more than 30 million as this progresses. I think they'll cave.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/soccer/online-petition-targets-coca-
cola-qatar-wcup-abuses-article-1.2251043






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Tuesday, June 9, 2015 11:38 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



I got 5 bucks says bribery is proven.

Nobody's disagreeing with that, stupid.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:17 PM

THGRRI


Fifa corruption: Swiss banks 'reported possible money laundering'

“Swiss prosecutors are investigating 53 cases of possible money laundering in their inquiry into bidding for the 2018 and 2022 Fifa World Cups.”

I saw this headline and all I could think about was Casablanca.



http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33163918



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Thursday, June 18, 2015 1:36 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Brazil?




Brazil?

Brazil?
Brazil?



Ferris Brazil?





SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Thursday, June 18, 2015 11:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"You don't trust the US but are suddenly willing to trust their statements about future events."

Show me Brazil is being INVESTIGATED.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Friday, June 19, 2015 10:32 AM

THGRRI


In Brenda's world of wrestling that's called a smack down. G


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Friday, June 19, 2015 8:22 PM

THGRRI


Putin has hissy fit.

"Russia's investigative committee spokesman has demanded that an international investigation be launched into the U.S. 1969 moon landings, after a US-led investigation into the world governing body FIFA, cast doubt over the fairness of choosing Russia to host the next World Cup."

I say Russia should investigate. I'm sure they have the expertise and millions upon millions of dollars such investigation's would cost. They are calling for an investigation into our 1994 world cup sponsorship as well. I say they should do it and more power to them. Till then I suggest Putin stop crying into his Okroshka ( soup ).

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-demands-probe-into-us-moon-
landing/ar-AAbNWHp


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Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:22 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


'G'

Once again - a failure to address my point. This is what you posted in response to the point I've made MANY times now, that the US is NOT investigating anything to do with how BRAZIL was awarded the World Cup:


FIFA arrests spur Brazil to probe soccer corruption


Did you notice that it's NOT the US - with its delicate moral sensitivities outraged by Russia - investigating anything to do with the rampant corruption that was the Brazilian-hosted World Cup?

You actually made my point for me, again.

The US wields a politically-honed knife when it claims it's seeking 'justice'. Because the corruption that was Brazil spurred no moral outrage, either then --- or now. Meanwhile, petty infractions by Russia are pursued vigorously, because, yanno, Putin ...

Yep. The the US practices the kind of 'justice' you all like best. The one where you hang first.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, June 20, 2015 10:27 AM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-demands-probe-into-us-moon-
landing/ar-AAbNWHp



Too funny - man are they obsessed, seeing attacks everywhere. Obviously, if they are innocent (har har), they wouldn't need to waste their time with this pantomime.
Gee, I wonder what they'd *find*? Photoshopped pictures of Obama writing a check, magnification: Pay to the Order of: Sepp Blatter??
Don't they seem so very childish? I'm over simplifying but... I find Russian men to have a very immature, overly simplistic definition of masculinity, extreme male vanity. It's very 1st grade playground rules with some Rambo and other TV/Film cheesy machismo (70's) thrown in. How easily they get in a huff at anything the US does. Ukraine is a basic payback because Vlad was dissed when Yanukovych was run out of Kiev - someone stole his marbles. He is treated like a god in Russia, but when the rest of the world laughs he has a hissy fit. Little petulant, whiny dictator.


I find machismo is attributable to being underdeveloped emotionally and intellectually. Then of course there is the Napoleon syndrome. I think the latter is definitely one of Putin's afflictions.

I think one thing an intelligent person would realize is that the FIFA investigation conducted by the USA is based on what transpired within the jurisdiction of the USA and it's banking system. Naturally all other investigations would spin off of that, and not everything being investigated would come out all at once. Any investigation such as this one would be ongoing. However if what you seek is to deflect from the facts then you would do what Putin and 1kiki are doing. Try to get the world to believe that malice was the motive for the investigation and that the investigators themselves are just as guilty as those they are exposing.

Funny G, I don't recall you or I suggesting American business or America's representatives when negotiating for the cup to be played here are not guilty of payoffs. That no one in America was corrupted by doing business with FIFA over the years. If it comes out some here are guilty as well so be it. I won't be crying in my Okroshka ( soup ).




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Saturday, June 20, 2015 11:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
If you are referring to my post, it was laced more with sarcasm. But I'm glad you saw it, I had thought it more obvious but my sarcasm button was dead.
Well, deep irony v sarcasm... I think they're close to each other on the same end of the spectrum. It was appreciated, whatever you call it.


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, June 20, 2015 3:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


'G'

I leave it to you to count how MANY times you straw-manned my argument. Because this: It was the US investigations that spurred on the Brazilians was NEVER my point. Below are my posts, making one argument, which you straw-manned at every instance.


.. it seems like it's a long-standing situation the US suddenly decided had to be addressed RIGHT NOW! simply to disadvantage Russia (and punish anyone who refuses to get with the program).


That corruption has been ultimately overlooked in the past, and incurred no effective response, even with far more serious instances. Instances that SHOULD have warranted a major response. (like Brazil)
Also, you're right Signy - the DoJ doesn't get involved unless there's a political reason to do so. In this case ... Putin.


What I'm saying is that US interest in 'justice' is highly selective.
It didn't happen for severe, egregious reasons like with Brazil.


Except, back then, in time to help the millions of Brazilians who were impoverished even more by the corrupt, cozy relationship between FIFA and Brazilian politicos, and when it really mattered to the lives of a lot of people. Yanno, actual justice for hundreds of millions of actual people. What a concept. Maybe the DoJ could look into it.
Rather than now, as a political snit.


But why wasn't the corruption for the Brazilian WC enuf to get someone to pull the trigger? You keep evading that point, 'G'. And I'll keep bringing it up. Justice is supposed to be the same for everyone or it's not justice, it's something else. Don't you agree?


"Justice is supposed to be the same for everyone or it's not justice, it's something else. Don't you agree?" And let me just quote your response in context because it says everything about you anyone needs to know: "Are you really that childish?"
You couldn't bring yourself to agree with what should be an easy point of concurrence on a statement of ideals, even though we know we fall short in practice. You couldn't agree that justice is SUPPOSED to be the same for everyone.
You don't want justice, even as a ideal goal. And not especially if it gets in the way of 'justice'.
And to distract from your inability to agree, you resorted to pure ad hominem, which demonstrates (yet again) your lack of ethics.
Yes, it was everything important about you in one short sentence. It's not about freedom, or justice, or any ideal you do try to hide behind. Ideals? They're --- childish. It's about you being completely partisan. It's about sides. It's about 'your side' winning at all costs, no matter how.
Like I said, it was everything important about you in one short sentence.

"Justice is supposed to be the same for everyone or it's not justice, it's something else. Don't you agree?"
"Are you really that childish?"


Just more evasions of my question. Which I'll ask - again. If the US has such an overriding interest in justice, why not investigate the Brazilian world cup?


Actually, as is often the case with you, you demonstrated a complete lack of reading ability, thinking ability, and honesty. I know that some Brazilians (yes, more than 1) are being investigated. What I'll point out AGAIN - for the fourth (fifth? sixth?) time is that no charges have been laid about the BRAZILIAN WORLD CUP EVENT. Since there is no way I could be any more clear and explicit about that, perhaps you could be a little less illiterate, stupid and dishonest.
And here I'll repeat my question - if the US is SO interested in justice, why didn't THAT EVENT make it bestir itself and investigate?


... your own source - note CLAIMS not QUOTES, MAY not WILL, and EXAMINED not INVESTIGATED, and as I'll point out again for - how many times? - not the trigger that moved the US to get 'justice'


You may recognize this from page 1: That corruption has been ultimately overlooked in the past, and incurred no effective response, even with far more serious instances. Instances that SHOULD have warranted a major response. like Brazil


My problem is that the US - and you, THUUGR, kpo, and 2nd - are claiming to be following some kind of moral imperative in the name of justice. Or, to accurately portray your version: 'justice'
.... it looks like the US has no problem ignoring VAST injustice - as it did with Brazil. It only acts when it can wield state police power to achieve a political aim (and btw, how very Soviet of it).


Then let me just quote myself where I answered your question:
... My problem is that the US - and you, THUUGR, kpo, and 2nd - are claiming to be following some kind of moral imperative in the name of justice. Or, to accurately portray your version: 'justice'.


Brazil?
Brazil?
Brazil?
Brazil?
Ferris Brazil?


Did you notice that it's NOT the US - with its delicate moral sensitivities outraged by Russia - investigating anything to do with the rampant corruption that was the Brazilian-hosted World Cup? ...
Yep. The the US practices the kind of 'justice' you all like best. The one where you hang first.


SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 21, 2015 11:42 AM

THGRRI





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Sunday, June 21, 2015 12:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I noticed that G and THUGR has formed some kind of folie a deux* in which they reinforce each other's less-rational thought processes.

Both G and THUGR inherently believe that that USA is "right", moral, and correct, no matter how heinous or cynical its actions. At this point, they aren't ready to imagine that the USA is ever anything but pure in its motives. You're arguing with true believers who are incapable of seeing anything that is unfamiliar or uncomfortable.

"USA ALL THE WAY!"
Right, guys?


* French for "a madness shared by two"), shared psychosis, or "the theatric of two" is a psychiatric syndrome in which symptoms of a delusional belief are transmitted from one individual to another

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Sunday, June 21, 2015 12:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Congratulations - your ignorance is impenetrable."

Thanks 'G'. I'll add this to my collection of your posts where you are incapable of addressing a simple point. This time you dodge it with ad hominem.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 21, 2015 1:52 PM

THGRRI








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Sunday, June 21, 2015 2:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I hope you realize THUGGR that I scroll past your posts just like I did with PN.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Sunday, June 21, 2015 5:55 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:


For the record: Signym thinks the US uncovering $150,000,000 in bribes and illegal activity by FIFA members and giving countries the incentive to cleanup their own corruption was a bad thing. Are you sure you're not pro big bank as well?


I have added my older post about if it should come out that Americans have been caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, because not once have G or I suggested America has clean hands when it comes to it's past dealings with FIFA. Sig and 1kiki imply that we are professing our innocence and that our motivation is based on malice and that Americas actions are as well.

So what am I posting about here. Corruption and should it be allowed to control the world cup. From what Sig and 1kiki post it is clear their for the corruption. I am not. People are dying by the thousands because of this corruption and it needs to be stopped. Trying to post distracting questions, disinformation and motivations about how and why the investigation has taken place is sad. To bad for Sig and 1kiki there are some here who know how to remain on course and not be distracted by bullshit.


Quote:

Funny G, I don't recall you or I suggesting American business or America's representatives when negotiating for the cup to be played here are not guilty of payoffs. That no one in America was corrupted by doing business with FIFA over the years. If it comes out some here are guilty as well so be it. I won't be crying in my Okroshka ( soup ).


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Monday, June 22, 2015 1:50 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
What she fails to realize is that when she lies to us she (more importantly) lies to herself, which over time erodes her sense of right and wrong, even her sense of self. Lying, changing meaning, creating false conclusions, negative presumptions, denying, deflecting and making things up, all become acceptable for her.
I have no hope that she will ever honestly see our posts, but it's still fun to make her try.


There have been 1677 views to date for this thread. Many follow the discussions that take place on the RWT. I hope they see it is to honest posters I try to respond. I do not act on Sig and 1kikis’ posts for the reasons you suggest. I wish to entice those reading our posts who really have straightforward based on fact opinions to post. To realize they can ignore the crap and post to those who will give their opinions consideration and respond respectfully back. Unfortunately many who like to post are like Sig, 1kiki and yes Jack. It severs as a deterrent to the rest but they should not give way to crazy. They should just skip past it and enjoy the opportunity to speak to fellow BrownCoats.

Where's GEEZER, is he no longer interested?



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Monday, June 22, 2015 3:41 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Already addressed many times

Nope. And not going to wait for you to stop lying.

Flush. There 'ya go ...

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:41 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
I wish to entice those reading our posts who really have straightforward based on fact opinions to post.
I think there's a missing word there.


"I wish to entice those reading our posts who really have straightforward ___________ based on fact opinions to post."

WHAT do they have "straightforward"?


--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, June 3, 2016 12:23 PM

THGRRI


Raid shows Sepp Blatter and two other ex-FIFA officials awarded themselves $80 million

"One day after Switzerland’s attorney general’s office raided FIFA headquarters in Zurich in its ongoing corruption investigation, FIFA lawyers on Friday revealed details of the contracts of former top officials for world soccer’s governing body. Former president Sepp Blatter, former secretary general Jerome Valcke and former finance director Markus Kattner gave themselves pay raises and World Cup bonuses totalling $80 million over five years, an apparent violation of Swiss law.

Evidence from the latest raid will be given to American and Swiss federal prosecutors."


What was Putin's position on the FIFA investigation again?

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Tuesday, June 14, 2016 3:05 PM

THGRRI


Russian Federation given 'suspended disqualification' over crowd trouble

UEFA have threatened England and Russian Federation with disqualification from Euro 2016 if there is a repeat of the unrest.

Calling the punishment a "suspended disqualification", European soccer's governing body punished the Russian fans for causing crowd disturbances, using fireworks and racist behavior.



Tensions came to a head inside the Stade Velodrome after Saturday's 1-1 England-Russia draw.

However some Russian fans and officials have indicated they do not care what foreign bodies do or think.

"The punishment is excessive, but we can not influence it".

Racism is commonplace at Russian football matches. There is no sense to appeal. "It is not guilty", he said.

In southern France, a bus carrying 29 Russian fans was stopped near the city of Nice on Tuesday amid concerns over further hooligan violence.

http://thevillagessuntimes.com/2016/06/14/russian-federation-given-sus
pended-disqualification-over/

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Wednesday, June 15, 2016 9:33 AM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by G:
As a big fan of this event I have been watching the matches and the news. The descriptions of violence in Marseilles don't do the events justice. YouTube is best to get a sense of the scope. It's pretty bad.
Basically, today's Russian Hooligans have decided to copy English hooligans from the 70's and 80's. Not surprising they had to reach that far back for inspiration. That was the bad days for hooligans in the UK. If you ever want to read a great book on the subject from one of my favorite authors, check out "Amongst the Thugs."
Without question Putin's world stage strut and immature, obvious attempts at projecting a manly aura have had a good deal of influence on these young men. They see his "machismo" and swagger and they try and emulate it. Papa Putin. The fact that he is very rarely if ever called out on his bluster (he does look like an idiot, another small hands guy trying to effect a larger image), and they take it as a green light to do the same.
I will give them credit in how they prepare though. No alcohol and plenty of physical training - they take their violence seriously.
But I think this time they have crossed some admittedly shadowy ethical lines. I believe it used to be that team thugs would seek each other out and male contests of bravery would be performed (beat downs). So thug on thug crime - zero sum imho, except for the damage to property (no small thing). But in the stadium at the England v. Russian match, it was clearly Russian thugs against regular mom and pop and son and daughter type fans, clearly only there to see the match, and not prepared for what amounted to Russian Commandos running at them. They crossed over many lines and clearly they felt empowered to do so.
So I applaud UEFA for at least issuing the threat of suspension. I think they actually have the stones to apply it if more violence ensues.
Oh, and World Cup in Russia 2018. Maybe.


Well put G. And with all the security issues the world has, this just adds to the confusion. But stupid is as stupid does.

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