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Originally posted by G:
A total of 33 states have enforced the new voter identification requirements as of February 2016. Of those, 18 states require voters to present photo identification, while 15 accept other forms of identification. In some states, a voter who is unable to present valid identification may still be permitted to vote without casting a provisional ballot – a practise known as, non-strict requirement. In eight states of the 17 states that require a photo ID, the requirement is non-strict, while it is non-strict in 14 of the states that do not require a photo.

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anyone should be able to get a state ID free of charge

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https://www.usa.gov/replace-vital-documents

Vital Records Documents Issued in the United States

Vital record documents consist of birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates. State government vital records offices issue these documents. To get a copy of a vital record document, contact the vital records office in the state where the event occurred.

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https://www.vitalchek.com/birth-certificates

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Originally posted by G:
1. The "non-strict" refers to the PHOTO part, not the ID part (you don't have to have a PHOTO on your ID). So this statement is still a statement of fact: "A total of 33 states have enforced the new voter identification requirements as of February 2016."

2. Same here: "Along with Voter ID laws, anyone should be able to get a state ID free of charge. Then there is no valid claim of discrimination against minorities." It's not a claim of discrimination so much as a statement of fact that minorities - traditional Democratic voters - show a lower proclivity in getting an ID if they don't have one, free or not... therefore... there will be less Dem voters. If you want to say, "Well screw them! If they can't drag themselves out of bed and git a free ID then they don't deserve to git to vote!" that's another matter.

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I think it's funny that everybody who wants to buy booze can get a photo ID to buy booze ...

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Groups impacted by the voter ID law are those who may not have a current WI driver’s license: students, older adults, people with disabilities or low income, and voters of color. Women’s right to vote is also at risk because 90% change their names upon marriage.

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Any of those excuses I don't find valid. Nobody is being disenfranchised.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
jack

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Groups impacted by the voter ID law are those who may not have a current WI driver’s license: students, older adults, people with disabilities or low income, and voters of color. Women’s right to vote is also at risk because 90% change their names upon marriage.

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Any of those excuses I don't find valid. Nobody is being disenfranchised.

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Aside from merely claiming something, do you have an actual argument with facts to back your opinion up?

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If you can't get your fat lazy ass to the DMV on one of them to get a free State ID, then you don't deserve to vote. Period.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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If you can't get your fat lazy ass to the DMV on one of them to get a free State ID, then you don't deserve to vote. Period.

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Assuming you're not handicapped, that you have transportation to the dmv, that you're not newly arrived in that state right before an election, that you can get time off from work during 'dmv' hours, that ... well jack, maybe it's been so long since you worked even 40 hours a week you've forgotten how much it can crimp your time, especially m-f, 9-5 during dmv hours. And I assume you've never been a heart failure patient with no transport to the dmv. Or other difficult circumstance. No wonder you just ASSume they must be fat and lazy.

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LOL... What's the deal 1kiki? You're normal sparring partners have taken a break for a few days so you're just looking for somebody... ANYBODY to argue with?

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they would have to spend one portion of one single day out of nearly 3,000 days to get that free ID

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http://www.dmvflorida.org/drivers-license-identification.shtml
US Citizens
Florida law requires identification, proof of date of birth, proof of residential address, and proof of social security number (if issued, Chapter 322, Florida Statutes, requires the Department see proof of social security number for the issuance of driver license and identification cards) from all customers before a driver license or identification card can be issued.
The name assigned to the social security number must match the name that will appear on the Florida driver license or identification card. If you have recently changed your name, update your records with the Social Security Administration before you apply for your license or identification card.

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/pdf_publications/dsd_x1
73.pdf
First-time Illinois Driver’s License/ ID Card Applicant An applicant applying for a driver’s license or ID card for the first time in Illinois must present:
•one document that satisfies each of Group A,B and C
•two documents that satisfy Group D (one document from Group D if applicant is under age 5 applying for an ID card; one document if applicant is applying for a no-fee ID card presenting a Homeless Status Certification) Duplicate/ Corrected Driver’s License ID Card Applicant An applicant applying for either a duplicate or corrected driver.

https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/prove-identity-age-permitlicense
date of birth by providing an acceptable document from the list below, and
name by providing your Social Security Card (SSN) or an ineligibility letter 1, and
one or more other documents that total 4 points
Please note that
your signature must be on at least one document
your documents must be original or certified by the issuing agency, unless you send us the proofs by mail
(followed by anm extensive list of documents, exceptions, caveats, and points for each)

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But if that doesn't happen - and I guarantee it won't - the only lock this key fits is the one that keeps the dem constituency from voting for no other reason than they're dems.

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The PROBLEM is that MANY Americans have lost faith in the voting process because of doubts about the fairness of the elections because photo IDs are not required. I don't have to prove that to you. That's a well known fact.

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In Harrisonburg, Virginia, the FBI and local authorities are investigating after 20 dead people re-registered to vote this year. Also, a study found more than 1,000 non-citizens in Virginia are registered to vote.

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That's (voter id keeps dem constituents from voting) just plain bullshit. That's throwing minorities and women and disabled people into a heap and saying that they are either lazy or stupid or incapable of doing anything unless somebody does it for them.

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So spare me any bullshit about how hard it is to make a trip to the DMV once every 8 years.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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The PROBLEM is that MANY Americans have lost faith in the voting process because of doubts about the fairness of the elections because photo IDs are not required. I don't have to prove that to you. That's a well known fact.

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First of all, not MANY know that supposed well known fact. Two out of 3 people - 66% - DON'T know that. http://time.com/4461014/voter-fraud-poll-gallup-poll-republicans/
But even if MANY knew that voter fraud was 'major' problem, or that the earth was flat, would that make either true?
But very specifically, it's not true. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voter-fraud-is-very-rare-in-ameri
can-elections/
In any case, the howlers - dead people registering to vote, or non-citizens registering to vote - highlight the problem is with REGISTRATION, not voting.

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In Harrisonburg, Virginia, the FBI and local authorities are investigating after 20 dead people re-registered to vote this year. Also, a study found more than 1,000 non-citizens in Virginia are registered to vote.

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That's (voter id keeps dem constituents from voting) just plain bullshit. That's throwing minorities and women and disabled people into a heap and saying that they are either lazy or stupid or incapable of doing anything unless somebody does it for them.

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Don't forget the elderly, ill, and impoverished! Why, when you start to add it all up, it looks like the only thing in common is that they're the dem constituency!
I take it Jack you have zero concern for those people who can have genuine problems making their way through a needlessly complicated, effortful, protracted process, engineered to screen legitimate voters out.

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So spare me any bullshit about how hard it is to make a trip to the DMV once every 8 years.

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Speaking of bullshit, I see you're back to your canard that's it's only one trip to the DMV - but while that may be bad enough, in the real world, it's about so much more.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I've never once had to provide a birth certificate for a drivers license. I've lived in the extremely Democratic Illinois, the moderate Wisconsin, and the mostly Republican Indiana. I have had to provide my social security card, which I also had to provide when I had first signed up for food stamps, and every time I got energy assistance.


I'm not going to keep reading links you sent me. I quoted the top line of the last one you sent me that said that 1 in 3 Americans believe that voter fraud is a major problem.

You keep asking me to prove voter fraud. I've never claimed there was voter fraud. What I've said, and what the article you provided backs up, is that a VERY LARGE amount of Americans believe that voter fraud is a problem.

I didn't have to prove it. YOU ALREADY DID.

Dumbass...



Where you at G and THGRRI? I'm done with this idiot.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I can't say for the other states but in California you have to be registered to vote in order to vote.

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No proof of citizenship is required to register. I have read that Arizona is now the same.

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Or any address that you choose. This is why Democrats love to have printouts of voter registration data, as well as voter history. When these clowns have that piece of paper in their hand with "their" address that they are about to recite, they got it from a roster of registered voters, and often checked that that voter has not participated in recent elections. As long as there is no bother to check an ID, this will continue. Then these clowns get back on the Democrat bus and head off to the next polling station.

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and the Left-wing extremist wacko at the Poll is never going to let a fellow Libtard vote fraudulently, right....

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No, not your ID - the ID of the REAL voter which you are impersonating.

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Those bragging on TV how they voted 7 times ...

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Originally posted by second:
6ixStringJack, what you’re dreaming of is a national ID card. All legislative attempts to create a national identity card have failed due to tenacious opposition from liberal and conservative politicians alike, who regard the national identity card as the mark of a totalitarian society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States

There would always be people who forgot their national ID card. So that they can’t forget when they vote, all Americans except the 1% should be micro-chipped, exactly like pets. The 1% will be exempt because we're not pets nor employees and we already know our legislators’ home phone numbers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(human)

Sadly for me, my side of the 1% has to accept losing occasionally to the Republican side, but there are the wonderful tax cuts to make me feel better and keep me in the Top 1%.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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No proof of citizenship is required to register. I have read that Arizona is now the same.

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Registration seems to me to be the weak link in voting, far more than the wrong person voting.

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Or any address that you choose. This is why Democrats love to have printouts of voter registration data, as well as voter history. When these clowns have that piece of paper in their hand with "their" address that they are about to recite, they got it from a roster of registered voters, and often checked that that voter has not participated in recent elections. As long as there is no bother to check an ID, this will continue. Then these clowns get back on the Democrat bus and head off to the next polling station.

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That's quite a story. Though given the lines at most polling stations I imagine a typical fake voter could get to 3 at most. And, btw, I probably won't accept this without any ... yanno ... evidence.

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and the Left-wing extremist wacko at the Poll is never going to let a fellow Libtard vote fraudulently, right....

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In my town, there are TWO poll workers who find you in the book, then have you sign. Your story is sounding more and more like a histrionic ghost story made up by a pre-teen.

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No, not your ID - the ID of the REAL voter which you are impersonating.

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Until the real voter votes ahead of the fake voter and the fake voter is exposed as a fraud? Or until the real voter shows up afterward and protests? There are so MANY opportunities for this to go wrong, there should be tens of thousands of outraged stories every election cycle. And yet .. that hasn't happened. I think it's because it doesn't happen. And please don't cite any O'Keefe videos, as they're highly edited and impossible to verify. http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/

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Those bragging on TV how they voted 7 times ...

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Who would that be, exactly?
Or, as you might say "How delusional can you get?"

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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The PROBLEM is that MANY Americans have lost faith in the voting process because of doubts about the fairness of the elections because photo IDs are not required. I don't have to prove that to you. That's a well known fact.

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First of all, not MANY know that supposed well known fact. Two out of 3 people - 66% - DON'T know that.

In any case, the howlers - dead people registering to vote, or non-citizens registering to vote - highlight the problem is with REGISTRATION, not voting.

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In Harrisonburg, Virginia, the FBI and local authorities are investigating after 20 dead people re-registered to vote this year. Also, a study found more than 1,000 non-citizens in Virginia are registered to vote.

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That's (voter id keeps dem constituents from voting) just plain bullshit. That's throwing minorities and women and disabled people into a heap and saying that they are either lazy or stupid or incapable of doing anything unless somebody does it for them.

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Don't forget the elderly, ill, and impoverished! Why, when you start to add it all up, it looks like the only thing in common is that they're the dem constituency!
I take it Jack you have zero concern for those people who can have genuine problems making their way through a needlessly complicated, effortful, protracted process, engineered to screen legitimate voters out.

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So spare me any bullshit about how hard it is to make a trip to the DMV once every 8 years.

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Speaking of bullshit, I see you're back to your canard that's it's only one trip to the DMV - but while that may be bad enough, in the real world, it's about so much more.

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That is OVER 100 MILLION PEOPLE in America that think voter fraud is a MAJOR problem.


And I don't give two shits how many problems there are with voter registrations. You could have 10 million dead people and illegals register to vote. But if the law is that you have to have a valid State Issued ID or Drivers License with a photo on it, none of those dead people or illegal people will actually be able to vote.

GET IT?

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The next day, county officials ''discovered'' that the returns from one precinct had not yet been counted, Mr. Caro said, and those votes went overwhelmingly to Johnson. On Monday, there were more new returns from the Rio Grande Valley.

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http://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/91776779.html

Three are charged with voting as felons, two with voting twice, and two with falsely procuring voter registrations while working for the organization ACORN.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Seems to be lots of confusion and contradictory claims about states with Voter ID laws.


here are some linkys:

https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_identification_laws_by_state#tab=Details
_by_state


http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States

To speak reasonably about these, perhaps we should specify which states we are talking about.

The following States seem to have changes in their Voter ID laws between 2012 and 2016:
KS, MS, VA, AL, SD, AR, WI improved their requirements.
AZ, TX, ND, PA lessened their requirements.

Using wikipedia, I find the following current groups:
Require Photo ID (aka honest elections):
(7) WI, KS, IN, MS, TN, GA, VA. Every one of these states counted their votes to carry for the GOP in 2016, except that suburb of ultra-corrupt D.C. known as "Virginia." A total of 63 Electoral Votes are represented by these states with "honest elections." 13 for Dems, 50 for GOP. Hilliary took VA with less than a majority, 49.75% of the "vote." VA voted GOP from 1979 until the infestation of D.C. by liberals following the Rock The Vote Election in 2006.
WI finally was able to enforce it's laws, and went to GOP for the first time since 1984.
KS and MS voted GOP every time since 1979.
IN voted Obama in 2008, otherwise GOP since 1979.
TN and GA each voted Dem twice since 1979.

Require ID, no photo:
(2) AZ, OH. These both voted GOP in 2016. OH voted Obama in 2012, and since 1980 has voted for the eventual victor each election. AZ has voted GOP every time since 1980 save 1996.

Request ID, which must have Photo:
(8) AL, FL, ID, LA, MI, RI, SD, TX. All of these voted for GOP in 2016 except Rhode Island. In 2012 MI voted for Obama.

Request ID, without Photo:
(15) AK, AR, CO, CT, DE, HI, KY, MO, MT, NH, ND, OK, SC, UT, WA. Of this group of 15, 6 went for the Dems in 2016, with 39 Electoral Votes, and 9 went for the GOP with 55 Electoral Votes.

No ID whatsoever (aka most encouraging voting fraud, and thereby disenfranchising honest law-abiding voting electorate):
(19) CA, IL, IA, ME, MD, MA, MN, NE, NV, NJ, NM, NY, NC, OR, PA, VT, WV, WY, DC.
6 of these states went to the GOP in 2016, with 54 Electoral Votes, and 13 (12 States plus DC) went to Hilliary, with 177 Electoral Votes.
In 2012, only PA had different voter ID laws compared to 2016 in this group, yet IA and PA went to Obama, taking 26 EVs - for a margin of 203 to 28 Electoral Votes in this most lawless(literally) group.
This group represents 231 Electoral Votes. 270 Electoral Votes wins an election. With 39 EVs from the prior category, this accounts for 270. Combining the 2 least-honest (most fraudulent) groups of laws, this is 325 Electoral Votes ripe for election fraud.

This last group, subtracting the EVs wrought from Senators, accounts for 195 of the 438 EVs representing population proportion - or about 45% of the population of America.
The prior group accounts for 64 more of the population proportion, giving us 259 or 59% of America governed by the most lax Voter ID laws - and it may be shocking, I say shocking to some that these States end up counting their vote tallies in favor of the Dems.


If we can specify which states we are disputing about from here on, it might make more sense.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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http://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/91776779.html

Three are charged with voting as felons, two with voting twice, and two with falsely procuring voter registrations while working for the organization ACORN.

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This story doesn't indicate how voter ID could have helped.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
The fact remains that most Democrats are against voter ID laws because the very best case scenario it does nothing at all for them and the worst case scenario it exposes fraud that has been suspected for quite some time now.

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Naw. 33 states already have a kind of voter id law:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2016/0215/John-Oliver-is-back-
and-making-the-case-against-Voter-ID-laws

As of February 2016, a total of 33 states have enforced the new voter identification requirements.
By Bamzi Banchiri, Staff FEBRUARY 15, 2016

Last night Mr. Oliver debuted season three of the show with a takedown of the controversial voter ID laws, which have proliferated around the country following the US Supreme Court’s decision to curtail the Voting Rights Act.


A 2014 research from the Government Accountability Office found that turnout dropped among both young people and African-Americans in Kansas and Tennessee after new voter ID requirements took effect in 2012.


A total of 33 states have enforced the new voter identification requirements as of February 2016. Of those, 18 states require voters to present photo identification, while 15 accept other forms of identification. In some states, a voter who is unable to present valid identification may still be permitted to vote without casting a provisional ballot – a practise known as, non-strict requirement. In eight states of the 17 states that require a photo ID, the requirement is non-strict, while it is non-strict in 14 of the states that do not require a photo.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
interesting list at these links

http://www.voteriders.org/voter-id?gclid=CI7I68nP_NECFQ5Efgod-L0LJA
http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx


Wisconsin seems to have gone out of its way to disenfranchise voters, as did Texas, Tennessee, Mississippi, (at least) :

IDs that are NOT VALID for voting in Wisconsin include:

Non-Wisconsin driver’s licenses
Student ID from an accredited WI university, college, or technical college that does NOT contain the student’s name, signature, picture, date the card was issued and expiration date (maximum two years) plus SEPARATE proof of enrollment.

Groups impacted by the voter ID law are those who may not have a current WI driver’s license: students, older adults, people with disabilities or low income, and voters of color. Women’s right to vote is also at risk because 90% change their names upon marriage. Wisconsin requires that the name on your photo ID “conform to the voter’s name on the poll list,” although “an exact match is not necessary.” Consequently, whether a woman - or any other - voter receives a regular ballot is subject to poll workers’ interpretation.

Alaska link doesn't work, Montana and Arkansas don't explicitly state acceptable identification ...

being pestered by family, unable to finish

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