College Experience by Wishimay

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
With the kiddo about to hit high school age, there is a lot of college talk pushed on them (and I'm betting I'll kick myself for asking)...

But... I was wondering about how college fit into your lives and family members lives? Did they/you regret it, did they/you end up working in the field that was studied?

My brother went to college and got a degree in something with computers, but then 9/11 happened and he went into the army. 4 years later that tech degree was pretty much worthless and he spent years paying off the debt. It may have been a good choice for him if he had gone straight into the work force. Back then the job market was a lot better (around 2002).

I went to community college about 4 times but quit everytime. It wasn't for me. I was always told with my acedemics that college was the way to go for me. Trades were something that only stupid people did. I had one teacher that tried to instill that in me, but I didn't take them seriously. I wish there were more people in my life like that when I was younger.

I really like what Mike Rowe has to say about it.

Until we have full automation of everything, we're going to need people working with their hands. If your daughter were to learn something like welding at a young age and honed that skill she could basically live wherever she wanted to and write her own ticket. I guess it just depends on what she's interested in. I don't' think anybody would have recommended a girl learn how to weld 5 or 10 years ago, but it's a different world today. When it comes to union jobs if she had any talent at all she'd be almost an automatic hire because she's female.

If she does go to college, don't let her go into any type of arts or gender studies or anything related to politics in general unless she really wants to be a teacher. Talk to her about what she's interested in and do some research about what jobs are in demand and what they pay when making a plan with her.

Just my two cents. Good luck.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 8:42 AM

The only thing to regret is the debt. Make sure it's all scholarships and working paid for. They spend about $8000 on giving a student an education and charge around $100k. Remember that, because it will remind you that it's not "advice" but advertising.

Almost no one ends up working in the field they studied in.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 9:08 AM

It's a little late now if she's already heading into High School, but if you had some money to put aside you might want to look into a 529 IRA. You immediately get to write anything you put in it off on your taxes so you see immediate gains. I wouldn't put it in anything aggressive now though since you don't have 18 years to let it sit there. Keep it in a basic conservative plan. Hell... if you can put it in some sort of interest bearing savings account type plan that makes almost zero interest, you're still coming out ahead with the tax write off.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 9:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Mom and dad were very high on the value of education, and all three of us were pushed into college, and to get degrees that we could make something of. "Underwater basketweaving" was to be avoided. But at the time, a lower-middle-class family like ours could get scholarships, so tuition was free and our chosen fields were biology/med tech, chemistry, and geology.

We all worked in our chosen fields for many years, and two of us are still working in our chosen field and it has been a significant benefit to our "bottom line". There are many jobs that legitimately require a BS that would be out of reach for someone without.

But even if mine is a "success story" I'm of two minds about the role of college. I wish that colleges would REQUIRE a year or two off, between high school and freshman. Let young people experience the world- learn a trade, live life - before heading off to college.

Since that's probably not going to happen I would say -

Have your daughter pick a degree, probably in the "hard sciences" or medicine.

Stay away from stuff that flares up, like chemical engineering or biochemical engineering, with promises of a $60,000 job on graduation. The fields are "hot" because of some temporary surge (petroleum chemistry, pharmaceutics) which will be gone by the time she graduates.

Also stay away from psychology, international studies, the arts, or business management. Far too many graduates for the paltry demand for those fields.

Pick a local college, and reduce expenses as much as possible.

There are some fields where you can only make a mark doing post-graduate work. Unless she is a STELLAR scholar with a burning desire to study one particular thing, I would avoid those kinds of fields.

Chances are, she will land in a job that she likes OK, and at some point down the road she will discover her true passion. Then she can decide to stick it out, or follow her dream ... hopefully, with a few more shekels in her pocket than when she started.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 10:11 AM

It's not about saving up 100k. It's about not paying more than $8k for the product. Which means scholarships, financial aid, working through college, and just never taking more classes than you can pay for. People buy this package deal. How many of you travel by buying one of those two week package deals? Or do you just buy a plane ticket and fly to visit your friends in Mexico, say? It's the same thing. They're selling a package deal that you don't have to buy. You could work on getting a specific type of scholarship, academics, sports, etc., but also plan on planning. Make sure there's an income stream to cover each outgo, and make sure each outgo is optional.

There are tons of things. Classes are usually $1000 each. Buy one at a time. Dorm living? or rent an apartment? Books, outdated information for $100 a pop, when teh older editions have the information and are a penny on amazon, or the digital downloads are free? who cares what page number exercise 121b is on? All the information is still in the book. 90% of that 100k goes for stuff you don't need. Economically, that package is the same as buying an extra house just to have somewhere to park your car. No one does that. So why does anyone do this? Because they think credit is free. It's not, it's slavery for your kiddo. So, don't take the credit, don't spend all your savings, look into how to get the product for a reasonable price.

When I went to college it was $675 a semester. I figure it's similar for most of y'all. A kid today can spend $20k a year, and actually have fewer full time professors than we had. There's a lot of air in the product, you don't have to buy the air. You can still get the product at a reasonable price

ETA: What Sig said. Except the engineering. I think these are good programs. They're hardccore study of the subject, and people who go to them are really informed. If you consider how few people are going to work in their chosen field, it's better to know stuff. But yes, sciences are good, anything that's hardcore facts. Don't waste money for someone to study opinion.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 11:44 AM

WISHIMAY

My brother went to be an air traffic controller and he's color-blind, but they gave him a waiver. Three months before he graduated they did a massive digital update and rescinded his waiver. He spent years paying it off (working a desk in an airport) and then eventually bought a small house and realized they wouldn't ever pay it off, so he went back to school, sold the house and now runs medical equipment. He's 43 and they just got into a house again. He's also got my insane family history for cancer, but he takes after mom and so far she is surviving her breast cancer, but.... she didn't do chemo, just radiation. It'll come back...

He is also the reason my family talked me out of going to college, because they supported him, just to see it fail.

Mom tried to get me a massage therapist license but there were creepster issues with that (I was 17), and it never would have worked with my arthritis...Now they have changed that to a two year degree here, whereas it was a $1000 six week course then. She herself went for nail tech, but had issues with the constant chemicals (and I think it bored her, sitting in one place) She and I are both naturally hyper-vigilant types, so sitting in one place can be torture.

If I hadn't been 5'10 and 230 with an ass that's two watermelons I would have gone for air stewardess. I could just see me whopping everyone in the head with my rear...

Yer welcome for me not doing that!

My cousin went for environmental sciences, and now she's a nurse. Her parents pretty much had to raise her kids and buy her houses for her.

I do think forcing kids to go to college at 18 is impractical at best. I wanted to be a surgical tech, but I never would have lasted in that job with the arthritis. I would have liked to be an art teacher, but for high school it's six damn years, and I was beyond burnt out by high school graduation. True, most of that was due to my home life, but I was also bored stiff of the institution of it all by then.

They have a program here where they say they will pay for college (I haven't read the fine print) if your kid keeps a certain GPA through high school, but the parents have to make below a certain amount and we make about 12k too much. As I have said before, that in no way, shape, or form makes us well-off. Hubby did go to school for what he is doing now but he graduated for it in 1998 and only two years ago started a job in that field that makes enough to live on. We did apply for this job THEN and was rejected 4 times.

I like the idea of her living with us for a few years and taking night courses (provided she doesn't get hijacked by a pretty face, but she's not the type...YET anyway). With all our health issues, I don't think she would make good standard college material. Stress really does make us worse, and she is lazy unless prodded. I have already signed her up for online high school, and we are going to try for accelerated graduation.

I think she would be ok at something like Human Resources for a while, so I think that is the direction we will head. Most require little or no schooling, and the night courses she would take could be applied in other fields later, if she wanted to change.

So far, her talents lie in reading comprehension and writing (she's won a couple awards for stories and poems), but with the Dyspraxia I think proof reader is out. We are going to attempt writing a novel while home schooling, and she's already started one. That "Fantastic Beasts and where to find them" was an idea she had too several years ago, so she has really good ideas.

She has a cousin that does medical coding and billing, which we may look into as well, but it's dull work... Don't know how long she would last at that.

Anyway, if you have any ideas for things that don't require too much college, I'd like to hear of them, thanks.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 12:56 PM

WISHIMAY

PS. As for welding...

I wouldn't recommend welding to anyone but young men with a death wish.
Doing that job is very hard on the lungs, eyes, body. Dad always said welding is good money but it's not a career, because sooner or later it'll eat you up. It's not a job for the clumsy, either.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 3:30 PM

It doesn't have to be welding. I was just throwing out a particularly high paying trade that's in demand anywhere you go. Automation and outsourcing are only going to take away a lot more jobs in the next decade or so that your daughter is in school. Electricity is another high paying in-demand option. Not for the careless, but if you're using your noggin on the job there aren't any health concerns other than a major accident.

If trades aren't something she's interested in, how do you think she'd take to learning a foreign language? If she became fluent in Spanish she'd basically be able to get a position in management in any major city.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 3:40 PM

DEVERSE

Hey, Ive been in a firefight before! Well, I was in a fire. Actually, I was fired from a fry-cook opportunity.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
With the kiddo about to hit high school age, there is a lot of college talk pushed on them (and I'm betting I'll kick myself for asking)...

But... I was wondering about how college fit into your lives and family members lives? Did they/you regret it, did they/you end up working in the field that was studied?

College and University are useful if you have a career in mind and gear the degree to the career.
I have a degree in Fire Protection Engineering that has served me well in my career. Mine was paid for by the military so no big cost associated for me.
My wife is a nurse as is one of my daughters and the Bachelor of Science degree they have earned also has served them well in their careers. These degrees and the nursing was expensive, but if I’m not mistaken we got both through university and nursing school with about $20K in debt that got paid off in the first year.
My other daughter has a Business Administration degree and has diplomas and certificates in a number of areas related to Occupational Health and Safety and will eventually obtain her Bachelor of Health Sciences, likely in the next year. Given her choice of career, these degrees (B.Adm and B.HS) will be beneficial in her chosen career. She is currently working as a safety coordinator for a large construction company and not only has a good wage, the company has very good benefits and pays her wage, tuition and books when she goes to school when construction stops in the off season, so it isn’t costing her anything but time.

However, I see a number of young people obtaining degrees when I worked at the University and wonder what it is they expect to gain from their degree. I have seen a number who obtained sociology degrees to be a social worker, corrections worker or in the justice (courts) system. Not only are these quite low paying jobs, but (other than corrections worker), jobs in those fields are few and far between and have little opportunity for advancement. I also see a number who went for arts degrees (liberal, theatre, fashion, fine, etc.) and those I run across after graduation tend to be in the service industry; very low paying jobs without much opportunity for advancement.

The younger people I see getting good jobs are those who go to a technical school and become plumbers, electricians, metal workers, carpenters; and are essentially working in a trade and I see them making reasonably good money and doing quite well. Tuition and costs are quite reasonable (currently) for a technical college class, but it seems like it’s getting more expensive each year and getting so many apply its hard to get into a class.

A friend’s son went into welding and makes phenomenal money when there is a demand (usually the oil industry here). With the oil field slowdown he isn’t making as much money, but it is still a pretty good wage. In regards to the health issues in welding, the people I see doing it full time (such as in construction or in the oil field) are wearing helmets with hoods and air supply or with filtered air to have respiratory protection, so it isn’t as significant a health hazard as it was in the past.

Its getting so that any "professional" career requires a degree nowadays, but even the trades are looking for persons who have gone to a technical college.

All in all I'd have to say its been very worthwhile for me and my family to have gotten the degrees and certainly aided in careers.

One thing I would advise... schools seem to place a ton of pressure on kids in high school to determine what their career will be. Almost every kid I know that is currently successful and doing well didn't have a clue what they wanted to do until they had finished high school and took a year or so off and looked around. They had sort of an idea, but it took going out and doing things to finally figure it out. The few kids that I know that selected a career in grade 9 or 10 and then focused on obtaining that goal, none are working in the field they initially chose.

Oh let the sun beat down upon my face;
With stars to fill my dream;
I am a traveler of both time and space;
To be where I have been

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 7:14 PM

I never regretted going on to further education when I left school (no college as such here). I did take a year off and got an insight into the limitations of having just a high school education. I did an undergraduate Arts degree which has been useful in that it was an easy pathway to more employment specific post graduate studies. And of course back in the 80s it was free. Ah the good old socialism days.

I am encouraging my son to take a year off and work after school but then go on and do something - he's not sure yet so it may be a generalist arts/science degree depending on what he can get into with his score. It's pretty hard to get an interesting job without some sort of qualification here. Trades are another issue - lucrative but what happens when you get older- it's usually physically demanding in those jobs.

Speaking of buttocks like watermelons I was recently on a flight where there was a very large steward and i did get knocked about.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 7:49 PM

Yet, Magons (long time no see) It was free here. We had Reagan. I think that the idea was that public education made a more productive workforce. I have to think whether that is socialism. You might be right.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 8:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Have you considered letting her audit classes? These days college is just the extension of High School since they dumbed down HS. A huge percent of 30-somethings live with their parents. Perhaps let her audit classes with minimal expense (and conjure what she really will be interested in), then pay for the classes and zip through them. She still lives off of you during the audit process, and the end result takes longer, but how many of today's kids hurried through and now do nothing?

Just a suggestion, because I don't know if it fits your situation. But it does provide multiple paths of opportunity, without massive commitment.

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Thursday, April 6, 2017 10:58 PM

RIVERLOVE

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Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Yet, Magons (long time no see) It was free here. We had Reagan. I think that the idea was that public education made a more productive workforce. I have to think whether that is socialism. You might be right.

You had free college and university under Reagan? Really?
The idea behind - introduced by a Labor government in the 70s - was to level the playing field, if you understand that expression. Anyone could become a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, even if you had no money behind you. It was still more difficult for poor kids - always is - but at least you came out with a degree and no debt A ND you could afford a modest home on even a working class income. And utilities were cheap.

Now, you come out with a huge debt, you have a hope in hell of being able to afford a house even on a good income unless you live hours commute from work, and your job security is about zero. But hey we privatised and jumped through all the IMF hoops for a good little capitalist society. Now the gap between rich and poor has increased about times 30 so somebodies laughing

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Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:41 PM

The idea of Capitalism is sound. Big Government screwed that up though. Most likely on purpose. We haven't actually had real capitalism, at least not in my lifetime in America.

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Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:37 PM

RIVERLOVE

Sure, it's all the government's fault. But that free cheese was awesome!

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Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:12 PM

Magon,

Economically it was awesome for the little guy under Reagan. Maybe it will be for Trump, too. They're pushing for it right now. In NY it's Sanders pushing for it personally. It Tennessee it's the republicans. It's just in the atmosphere, people have had it with these big bankers.

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Thursday, April 13, 2017 5:35 AM

But did you really have free tertiary education ?

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Thursday, April 13, 2017 9:35 AM

Tertiary?

Yes, didn't have to pay for college. There are a couple income assistance programs for low income people in the US. Unfortunately it didn't grow with the rise of tuition. It used to be more than tuition, so we were paid for going to college.

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Thursday, April 13, 2017 8:01 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
But did you really have free tertiary education ?

Is not secondary education defined as college or university?
Are you defining perpetual students as tertiary?
Otherwise after college or university, people transition to jobs aka "the real world" - are you defining real world experience as tertiary education? How should the government provide free work experience? That would completely devalue and negate the learning of Free Market, Free Enterprise, supply and demand, and would only perpetuate communism state delusions.

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Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:29 PM

Secondary is high school, also called, uncommonly here, secondary school, or more commonly, elsewhere 'secondry' school.

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Friday, April 14, 2017 12:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Tertiary?

Yes, didn't have to pay for college. There are a couple income assistance programs for low income people in the US. Unfortunately it didn't grow with the rise of tuition. It used to be more than tuition, so we were paid for going to college.

That's not the same.
Universities were free apart from a small enrolment fee. You could also get income support while attending - if you were unable to be supported by your parents.

School here is
Primary - 6-12
Secondary 12-18
Tertiary + 18 university or college of education (not the same as your colleges)

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Friday, April 14, 2017 1:09 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Thoughts on

- skilled trades - generally good employment as long as building are going up, cars are being sold, but when business is down, so are the jobs (I've read it's the manganese fumes from welding that lead to brain damage/ dementia.)

- medical-related (not requiring 4 year degree) - phlebotomist, EKG technician, pulmonary function technologist/ technician, medical assistant, LVN/ LPN, EMT etc
- medical-related (requiring 4 year degree) - nurse (BSN), medical technologist, etc
The problem with these jobs is that while there will always be demand, and it's not a job that can be easily exported, it's lucrative for employers to hire lower-wage employees from other countries, like the Philippines, putting wage pressure on American workers.

- computer programmer - this is a VERY high demand job, and H1B visa imports, as well as telecommunications with foreign-based call centers, are putting both job and wage pressure on the field

- ANYthing petroleum/ gas/ coal related - boom .. and bust

- engineering - there are many types of engineering - from chemical to electrical to mechanical to civil to ... it depends ...

- arts - unless your daughter is extremely talented, I'd stay out of the arts. Many people have creative drives, but they're far easier to satisfy when you have a regular job.

- same goes for liberal arts.

In terms of fields, that's about what I can think of. There are fields with caveats and fields that look like disasters. But nothing looks entirely certain to me.

As for auditing classes, there are many students here in CA who are taking 5 or more years to get 4 year degrees because there's simply not enough room in the required classes they need to graduate. That puts the kibosh on auditing - "freebies taking up seats".
Also, for science/ engineering/ medical 4 year degrees, there are entire sequences of class prerequisites, which means you can't 'buffet' your education, or if you do, graduating will take, like, forevar!

Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

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Friday, April 14, 2017 3:15 AM

Well the beauty about a lot of the trades skills is that even when new things aren't being made, a lot of the old stuff tends to break down and still need repairs. I don't really think there is really any down time for auto mechanics or plumbers, for instance. At the same time I wouldn't recommend basic carpentry to anybody.

The medical field I would say is pretty much good for almost any type of job so long as it was something you're actually interested in. The one thing I would stay away from now is being a pharmacist. Pharmacy school costs a big bundle of money and since everybody was jumping on that wagon there's currently a glut of new pharmacists. Unless you're willing to travel to a place you never thought of living before where they're still in demand, or you're willing to work all sorts of odd hours and possibly float around from store to store the days of huge sign on bonuses and 100k plus starting salaries are a thing of the past.

Computer programmer. Stay away from this unless you REALLY love it and you're going to be one of the best of the best. If you're expecting a big payday for this job and you're only a mediocre programmer, you're going to be replaced by foreign workers very quickly. I wouldn't recommend really anything in this field anymore since most of it can be done remotely now and even a lot of the foreign work is being replaced by automation.

Engineering should be a pretty safe bet if you're really smart and you don't mind a whole ton of school.

Arts of any type are only for rich people with connections. There's a lot of brilliant and talented artists out there who end up waiting tables for a living and selling their work on Etsy in their free time. If you had any talent you probably didn't need to go to college for it unless it was something involving computers too. If you do go down that route make sure to at least pick up some business and marketing classes because you're going to be doing most of your work freelance and need to know how to sell yourself.

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Friday, April 14, 2017 12:28 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
My advice is don't listen to any advice from ANYONE on this site! OMG!

==============================

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Friday, April 14, 2017 3:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:

That's not the same.

Looks exactly the same from here. College is an informal term for University.
Someone else paying for it is how it becomes free. Professors still have to be paid by someone. Why does it matter how they justify it on their ledger?

Listen to these people here, they're like smart and stuff. Also they like firefly.
Honestly, I don't think I've ever gotten bad advice here.

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Friday, April 14, 2017 4:59 PM

THGRRI

I'm 61 MAGON. College has never been free here. These people are nuts. I don't think if they went to college it was in America. I'm not even sure they live here now.

It was much cheaper. About 8 grand or so years ago. The last 20 years it really got expensive. Those in office who benefited from a cheap education, decided to deny those coming up through the ranks the same privileges they received.

Quote:
Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Tertiary?

Yes, didn't have to pay for college. There are a couple income assistance programs for low income people in the US. Unfortunately it didn't grow with the rise of tuition. It used to be more than tuition, so we were paid for going to college.

That's not the same.
Universities were free apart from a small enrolment fee. You could also get income support while attending - if you were unable to be supported by your parents.

School here is
Primary - 6-12
Secondary 12-18
Tertiary + 18 university or college of education (not the same as your colleges)

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Friday, April 14, 2017 5:05 PM

T,

College was, until quite recently, $675/semester, but you got an automatic $2700 in aid, without doing anything. That's like cheaper than free. It was like that for years and years, at public university. Right, in the last 20 years it had definitely shot up. It will be free again in the fall. CCNY was also free until the 70s, and will now be free again. In NYS the free college is a Sanders bill.

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Friday, April 14, 2017 5:11 PM