Quote:

---

Originally posted by G:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America,
a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands
those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest
enemies of the people. So I went to Russia.

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.
But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look
is playing in the global information war, where competing
narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/business/media/vladimir-putin-mosco
w-press-trump.html

---

Great article. It's nothing we haven't suspected, just more detail. The fact that Trump played to the less intelligent during his campaign and won, only vindicated the Russian style approach. "They'll believe anything if it's got the right package," and Trump obviously knows a lot about selling and packaging.
In that election, America showed Lord Voldemort, er, Vladimir, that there were enough hillbillies and gullibles to elect Trump, now he's going to show Trump how to keep the rest in check and keep the party going.

==============================

---

We need not look any farther than the fist responder to this thread to see how that is true. Some say ignorance is bliss. I say it's detrimental to a society.

Quote:

---

Mediator

---

Quote:

---

A Lesson in Moscow About Trump-Style ‘Alternative Truth’

---

Quote:

---

MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America, a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest enemies of the people.

---

Quote:

---

So I went to Russia.

---

Quote:

---

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.

---

Quote:

---

But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look is playing in the global information war, where competing narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.

I had picked a ghoulishly perfect week to swing through President Vladimir V. Putin’s Moscow, where spring was struggling to break out over the low-slung, slate-gray cityscape.

Mr. Trump had just ordered a Tomahawk strike against Syria’s Shayrat air base, from which, the United States said, President Bashar al-Assad of Syria had launched the chemical weapons attack that killed more than 80 and sickened hundreds.

As soon as I turned on a television here I wondered if I had arrived through an alt-right wormhole.

Back in the States, the prevailing notion in the news was that Mr. Assad had indeed been responsible for the chemical strike.

---

Quote:

---

There was some “reportage” from sources like the conspiracy theorist and radio host Alex Jones — best known for suggesting that the Sandy Hook school massacre was staged — that the chemical attack was a “false flag” operation by terrorist rebel groups to goad the United States into attacking Mr. Assad. But that was a view from the fringe.

---

Quote:

---

Here in Russia, it was the dominant theme throughout the overwhelmingly state-controlled mainstream media.

---

Quote:

---

On the popular Russian television program “Vesti Nedeli,” the host, Dmitry Kiselyov, questioned how Syria could have been responsible for the attack. After all, he said, the Assad government had destroyed all of its chemical weapons. It was the terrorists who possessed them, said Mr. Kiselyov, who also heads Russia’s main state-run international media arm.

---

Quote:

---

One of Mr. Kiselyov’s correspondents on the scene mocked “Western propagandists” for believing the Trump line, saying munitions at the air base had “as much to do with chemical weapons as the test tube in the hands of Colin Powell had to do with weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.”

That teed up Mr. Putin to suggest in nationally televised comments a couple of days later that perhaps the attack was an intentional “provocation” by the rebels to goad the United States into attacking Mr. Assad. RT, the Russian-financed English-language news service, initially translated Mr. Putin as calling it a “false flag.” The full Alex Jones was complete.

---

Quote:

---

When Trump administration officials tried to counter Russia’s “false narratives” by releasing to reporters a declassified report detailing Syria’s chemical weapons stockpiles — and suggesting to The Associated Press without proof

---

Quote:

---

that Russia knew of Mr. Assad’s plans to use chemical weapons in advance — the Russians had a ready answer borrowed from Mr. Trump himself.

As the pro-Kremlin newspaper Izvestia put it, “Apparently it was for good reason Donald Trump called unverified information in the mass media one of the main problems in the U.S.”

It was the best evidence I’ve seen of the folly of Mr. Trump’s anti-press approach. You can’t spend more than a year attacking the credibility of the “dishonest media” and then expect to use its journalism as support for your position during an international crisis — at least not with any success.

---

Quote:

---

While Mr. Trump and his supporters may think that undermining the news media serves their larger interests ...

---

Quote:

---

... in this great information war it serves Mr. Putin’s interests more. It means playing on his turf, where he excels.

Integral to Mr. Putin’s governing style has been a pliant press that makes his government the main arbiter of truth.

---

Quote:

---

While talking to the beaten but unbowed members of the real journalism community here, I heard eerie hints of Trumpian proclamations in their war stories.

Take Mr. Trump’s implicit threat to the owner of The Washington Post, Jeff Bezos, during the election campaign. In case you’ve forgotten, while calling The Post’s coverage of him “horrible and false,” Mr. Trump warned that if he won the presidency Mr. Bezos’s other business, Amazon, would have “such problems.” (The Post was undaunted, and the issue hasn’t come up again.)

---

Quote:

---

The government here doesn’t make threats like that. Things just happen. That was the case last year at the independent media company RBC after its flagship newspaper reported on sensitive financial arrangements of members of Mr. Putin’s family and his associates. The Russian authorities raided the offices of its oligarch owner, Mikhail Prokhorov. Within a few weeks its top three editors had left.

---

Quote:

---

The Kremlin denied involvement. But it must have liked the new editor’s message to the RBC staff: Journalism is like driving, and “if you drive over the solid double line they take away your license.”

Mr. Prokhorov is considering selling RBC to another oligarch who is closer to the government, the Russian business journal Vedomosti reported on Tuesday.

---

Quote:

---

That same day, I met with one of the former RBC editors, Roman Badanin. We chatted at his new place of employment, TV Rain, in the Flacon warehouse complex here, populated by young people with beards, tattoos, piercings and colored hair. (Brooklyn hipster imperialism knows no bounds.)

TV Rain has its own hard-luck tale. It was Russia’s only independent television station. Carried mainly on cable, it regularly covered anti-Putin protests and aired voices excluded from the rest of television.

---

Quote:

---

But after it ran an online poll asking whether Russia should have abandoned Leningrad to the Nazis to save lives — deeply offending Russian national pride, and receiving a public rebuke from Mr. Putin’s top spokesman — its landlord evicted it and its cable carriers dropped it.

---

Quote:

---

It now lives primarily as a subscription service on the internet ...

---

Quote:

---

... which remains fairly free given Mr. Putin’s primary focus on television as the most powerful medium in the country. (Mr. Badanin and others worry that’s going to change, too.)

When I asked Mr. Badanin what would be different if Russia had full press freedoms, he looked at me wearily and said: “Everything. Sorry for that common answer, but everything.”

---

Quote:

---

Despite steep challenges, people like Mr. Badanin are still battling on. Their journalistic spirit couldn’t be killed, even after some of their friends and colleagues had been.

One newspaper here, Novaya Gazeta, has lost five reporters to *violence* or *suspicious circumstances* since the turn of the century.

---

Quote:

---

Toward the end of the week, I went to its spartan offices in central Moscow to visit its longtime editor, Dmitri Muratov, who has fiercely guarded the paper’s independence through all of the killings

---

Quote:

---

and the crackdowns.

---

Quote:

---

With the gallows humor of a seasoned journalist,

---

Quote:

---

Mr. Muratov was in a jovial mood

---

Quote:

---

and told me that he was getting a great kick out of state media’s hard turn against Mr. Trump.

Initially, Mr. Muratov said of the president, “he was treated as warmly as McDonald’s; he entered every home like he was our national Santa Claus.”

---

Quote:

---

Mr. Muratov had no doubt the sentiment toward Mr. Trump would reverse again, perhaps soon. (To borrow from “1984”: “Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”)

Novaya Gazeta had the toughest coverage on the chemical weapons attack that I saw here, challenging the government narrative with reporting from the ground indicating the chemical weapons were dropped from the air. (The anti-Assad forces do not have airplanes.)

---

Quote:

---

There’s a lot of speculation in Russian media circles about why the Kremlin allows Novaya Gazeta to continue to operate.

---

Quote:

---

Mr. Muratov says he believes it’s because the newspaper is not owned by a single businessman subject to pressure. The newspaper’s staff owns a majority of the shares, and the rest of them are owned by the former Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev and the Russian businessman Alexander Lebedev. (Mr. Lebedev told The Guardian last year that he was no longer financing newsroom operations because of “the strain.”)

That, and a loyal subscriber base of more than 240,000, help insulate it from outside pressure, if not the violence.

---

Quote:

---

The very day of my visit, Mr. Muratov received a threat against his entire staff from religious leaders in Chechnya

---

Quote:

---

angry over articles about anti-gay violence in the region.

The Novaya Gazeta offices are scattered with reminders to take such threats seriously, like the case that holds the dusty desktop computer of Anna Politkovskaya. She was shot dead in her apartment building in 2006 after exposing human rights abuses in Chechnya and writing unflinchingly about Mr. Putin.

---

Quote:

---

I wondered aloud whether it scared any of Mr. Muratov’s reporters away from certain stories. He turned serious, looked straight at me and said, “I really wish it could.”

---

Quote:

---

Mr. Muratov follows the American news media closely. I asked him what he thought about the American press corps’ quandary when it comes to covering a president, like Mr. Trump, who trades in falsehoods and demonizes journalists.

He seemed put off by the question; the answer, to him, was so obvious.

“Information from the Kremlin or from the White House, it’s not for us verified information,” he said. “We don’t place our trust just on their word.”

It’s a lesson American reporters should have learned long before Mr. Trump came along, especially after Iraq.

Journalists in Russia like Mr. Muratov haven’t lost sight of that lesson because they can’t afford to. Neither can we.

---

Quote:

---

That same day, I met with one of the former RBC editors, Roman Badanin. We chatted at his new place of employment, TV Rain, in the Flacon warehouse complex here, populated by young people with beards, tattoos, piercings and colored hair. (Brooklyn hipster imperialism knows no bounds.)

TV Rain has its own hard-luck tale. It was Russia’s only independent television station. Carried mainly on cable, it regularly covered anti-Putin protests and aired voices excluded from the rest of television. - MR STOOPID

You mean it's like Alex Jones. - KIKI

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Maybe if they stopped lying, they'd stop being called liars.

I have a better title to this article...

Talking To Myself: The Sound of a Tree Falling in a Forest When No One is There to Hear it

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America,
a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands
those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest
enemies of the people. So I went to Russia.

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.
But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look
is playing in the global information war, where competing
narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/business/media/vladimir-putin-mosco
w-press-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fjim-rutenberg&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Fighting fake news: Google’s new fact-check tool attempts to combat a global issue

Google released its new tool “Fact Check” this week. It is designed to combat fake news on the internet. The move is a clear response to the post-election outcry over the spread of false news reports, their probable influence on the 2016 presidential election and their negative affect on democracy.

http://www.salon.com/2017/04/23/fighting-fake-news-googles-new-fact-ch
eck-tool-attempts-to-combat-a-global-issue_partner/

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And yet, there are people here who believe anything the government says, or an anonymous source, or an agency, as transmitted by the media, just because someone said so.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
No one should be taking anybody's claims as fact unless they're accompanied by relevant evidence.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by GEEBERS:
You mean like the evidence you provide that supports the fact that you're a lying sack of sh*t? Sad, little Kiki... you just keep stepping in it.

---

Quote:

---

And yet, there are people here who believe anything the government says, or an anonymous source, or an agency, as transmitted by the media, just because someone said so.

Like you. [GEEBERS] RUSSIANS INVADE UKRAINE. TROOPS REPELLED BY UKRAINE! KIEV SAID AND NATO AGREED - RUSSIA IS SENDING TROOPS ACROSS THE BORDER ... IN MAY ... AND JUNE ... AND JULY AND AUGUST ... (of course there was never any evidence for any of the so-called invasions) RUSSIA HACKED THE ELECTION! (claim repeated with no evidence) ... ASSAD 'GASSED HIS OWN PEOPLE'! (claim repeated with no evidence and DESPITE THE UN OFFICIAL REPORT.) - KIKI

---

Quote:

---

You mean like the evidence you provide that supports the fact that you're a lying sack of sh*t? Sad, little Kiki... you just keep stepping in it. - GSTRING

Here's the thing - I noticed that you troll ESPECIALLY FERVENTLY when you have zero facts. I'm guessing you've got nothing.- KIKI

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:

G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.

---

There are years of threads here that show you defending Russia against any and all negative assertions about it. Then there's G, always confronting you about that. There are years of threads here that show you posting negatively about America and our allies. Then there's G, always confronting you about that.

You posting this about G over and over again is laughable. More so, it shows you to be what G says you are, a liar. We all know it. The proof is in your signature, and can be seen in every post you make.

The other thing your signature suggests about you, is that you are in a tail spin. Most of your posts and replies are without substance. All your posts are 97% the same. They're all signature. While you are fond of asking the rest of us if we would care to discuss the facts, you have apparently lost the ability to. Well, actually you never could.

Quote:

---

There are years of threads here that show you defending Russia against any and all negative assertions about it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

There are years of threads here that show you defending Russia against any and all negative assertions about it.

---

No, not true. There are years (four, possibly, when the BUT RUSSIA! started to become a meme) that show me objecting to paranoia and stupid claims.

---

Yeah, it's great ain't it? You're responsible for that. It's called pushback. As for the rest of your twisted and subjective post, it has been deleted. Not read, nor considered as worth a moments consideration.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by G:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
It's sad isn't G. I mean how anyone would still be confused as to what the guy is about. And SIG with the Hillary starting WW111 shit, when its Trump who's on the verge. And where're only three months into his 4 year term.

---

One of the reasons why the deflection: "you need to ask yourself how you can rebuild the democratic party" is so obvious and so flipping stupid is that for the Dems to have the same success as Trump had (without Russian aid) is they would have to dumb down the heck out of their message and lie 10 times more. Maybe then they'd attract the Trump voter. Seriously - being honest is a flaw in this country. People are too stupid or too petty to recognize when they've been lied to, or care if they do.

==============================

---

Ah, I think they need to address the white working class. The democratic agenda does not include us. We are just scape goats to them. Every time they open their mouths about the down trodden it's always about minorities. Sure OK, but what about the rest of us?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America,
a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands
those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest
enemies of the people. So I went to Russia.

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.
But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look
is playing in the global information war, where competing
narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/business/media/vladimir-putin-mosco
w-press-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fjim-rutenberg&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

---

T

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America,
a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands
those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest
enemies of the people. So I went to Russia.

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.
But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look
is playing in the global information war, where competing
narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/business/media/vladimir-putin-mosco
w-press-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fjim-rutenberg&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:

MOSCOW — I wanted to better understand President Trump’s America,
a place where truth is being ripped from its moorings as he brands
those tasked with lashing it back into place — journalists — as dishonest
enemies of the people. So I went to Russia.

It was like a visit to the land of Alternative Truth Yet to Come.
But it also gave me a glimpse into how our new national look
is playing in the global information war, where competing
narratives are clashing along a sliding scale of fact and fiction.



https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/business/media/vladimir-putin-mosco
w-press-trump.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fjim-rutenberg&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&_r=0

---