Minimum Wage Increase Eliminates Minimum Wage Jobs By Forcing Businesses Out of The Market by JEWELSTAITEFAN

I'm not even going to bother reading all of your other bullshit.

Being a white male does not mean you have it better than other people.

I had a terrible childhood from a split home and suffered massive emotional and psychological abuse from my parents who used my brothers and I as weapons against each other. Being the smallest kid in class until late in high school I regularly was bullied until I started beating a few people within an inch of their life and people left me alone. By that point the damage was done and I walk on pins and needles wherever I go even to this day.

I have always been an outcast and an outsider. I got good at pretending to be a part of the team for professional reasons and to further my own agenda but outside of a select few I don't have any friends. I don't know how to maintain relationships.

Fuck you and your SJW bullshit mentality, and take your white guilt and shove it up your ass.

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Sunday, July 2, 2017 2:46 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You call facts bullshit? I'm not surprised. As for emotional damage - oh boo hoo. Grow up, already. And finally, if you think you got where you are (such as it is) on merit alone, and that everyone gets what they deserve, you're a fucking head-case. I'm not asking you to go around carrying guilt. I'm saying you need to recognize that you've received undeserved benefits along with your undeserved problems, and you need to start looking at the world through realistic adult eyes instead of little-boy Jack-victim/ hero eyes. Because you may not believe it, but the world doesn't revolve around Jack.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 2, 2017 9:33 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
. . . and although it's pointless to "brag" about intelligence when you can't prove it, I am extremely intelligent and always tested in the top 1% in tests as a child.

I provided you two books at The Pirate Bay. To motivate you to click the links, here are brief excerpts from a dual book review. The rest is up to you, but both books are authoritative, thought provoking, accessible and well worth a spot on your summer reading list.

Is It Inequality Of Income We Care About — Or Inequality Of Opportunity?
By Steven Pearlstein July 1

www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/01/is-it-inequality-of-inc
ome-we-care-about-or-inequality-of-opportunity/

Inequality may well be the issue of our time. But is it inequality of income we care about, or inequality of opportunity? And what is opportunity — the opportunity to do better than our parents, or better than ourselves at an earlier age, or does it mean doing better relative to everyone else? Can some of us get wealthier without making others poorer? Would inequality recede if we just had more economic growth?

These questions animate two new books. One is “Dream Hoarders: How the American Upper Middle Class is Leaving Everyone Else in the Dust, Why That is a Problem and What To do About It,” by Richard Reeves.
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/17941215/Dream_Hoarders__How_the_Amer
ican_Upper_Middle_Class_Is_Leaving_E

The other, “The Broken Ladder: How Inequality Affects the Way We Think, Live and Die,” is by Keith Payne, a professor of psychology at the University of North Carolina.
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/17926268/Keith_Payne_-_The_Broken_Lad
der_2017_RETAiL_ePUB_eBOOK-DiSTRiBUT

Reeves starts from a simple factual observation — namely, that the rise of inequality in the United States isn’t just a story about the super-rich, the top 1 percent, but even more about a class of married, highly educated, influential and increasingly isolated professionals in the top 20 percent who have been pulling away, both literally and figuratively, from the rest of the country.

Or, as Reeves is quick to acknowledge, people like himself and his friends. While to the world, and to themselves, it appears that the members of the upper middle class have come out on top because of their talent and hard work, Reeves reminds us that it has just as much to do with the luck of being born to parents able devote time, money and influence to develop and nurture their talents and assure their success. . . .

In “Broken Ladder,” by contrast, psychologist Payne embraces the egalitarian view that inequality of income is problem in and of itself — economically, morally, politically. He begins with the observation that humans are hard-wired by evolution to care not just about their absolute level of material comfort but also their relative standing in the economic and social hierarchy.

Our tendency, he explains, is to believe that each of us is above average in terms of character, talent and performance, and when an unequal reward structure fails to reflect that belief, we become anxious, resentful and pessimistic about the future. Those negative feelings, in turn, lead people to make to bad decisions — taking on too much risk, underinvesting in the future, indulging in too much food, drink, sex — which only further undermines their economic prospects.

Social psychologists have long identified this vicious cycle to explain the poverty trap — the persistence of poverty in certain families and communities. But Payne’s point is that because of the dramatic rise in income inequality, the same status anxiety has now come to afflict the middle class, creating a similar self-defeating dynamic.

“Our intrinsic appetite for high status crashes against the towering inequality we see around us, with enormous consequences for not just the poor, but the middle class as well,” he writes. “Inequality is not simply a matter of how much money we have; it’s about where we stand compared to other people.” In other words, it's not just being poor that matters; feeling poor has a similar effect.

People who feel left out and powerless are also prone to become distrustful and gravitate to conspiracy theories to explain their fate. . . .

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 3, 2017 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You call facts bullshit? I'm not surprised. As for emotional damage - oh boo hoo. Grow up, already. And finally, if you think you got where you are (such as it is) on merit alone, and that everyone gets what they deserve, you're a fucking head-case. I'm not asking you to go around carrying guilt. I'm saying you need to recognize that you've received undeserved benefits along with your undeserved problems, and you need to start looking at the world through realistic adult eyes instead of little-boy Jack-victim/ hero eyes. Because you may not believe it, but the world doesn't revolve around Jack.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey dipshit.

I'm the one saying that I deserve what I got, both good and bad.

You're the one saying that everything is predetermined by your color and your sex, and that I don't deserve anything I've worked for and saved for.

Go fuck yourself. I'm done talking to somebody who flip flops every post and argues just for arguments sake.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 12:41 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You 'deserve' everything you got? Why, that must mean we're in a meritocracy, where everything is earned BY INDIVIDUAL MERIT (hence the word MERITocracy). Only YOU ALSO claim you don't believe we live in one!

So which is it? Are you the boy raised by warring parents who got scarred for life from circumstances you didn't create or control? Or are you the boy who controlled his parents and so merited every bit of their pathology?

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 7:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:

I'm the one saying that I deserve what I got, both good and bad.

You're the one saying that everything is predetermined by your color and your sex, and that I don't deserve anything I've worked for and saved for.

I'm done talking to somebody who flip flops every post and argues just for arguments sake.

There is a third possibility: none of the above. You both imagine that there is a system. You don't agree on how that system works.

From “The Broken Ladder: How Inequality Affects the Way We Think, Live and Die”

We see the same mental gymnastics when people try to explain why some individuals earn a lot of money and others don’t. In another of Lerner’s experiments, he had two people solving puzzles at a table, with subjects again watching the session unfold through a see-through mirror. The experimenter then explained that he had money to pay only one of the puzzlers. He drew a name out of a hat and paid the lucky winner, while the loser went home empty-handed. Even though they had just seen that the name was drawn randomly, subjects believed that the winner had worked harder, made a greater contribution, and was more creative in his puzzle solutions than the loser. The certainty that we get what we deserve, and deserve what we get, was so powerful that it overrode the evidence of their senses telling people that the outcome was a matter of random chance.

Our tendency to mentally contort our way toward justice applies also to ourselves. Inspired by Lerner’s experiments, economist Jeffrey Butler recently asked whether being highly paid made people think more highly of themselves. To test this idea, he had groups of research subjects complete a test of logical reasoning. Within each group, one half were told that they would be paid four dollars for each correct answer, and the other half were told that they would be paid only two dollars. Just as in Lerner’s experiment, the researchers openly informed the subjects that the choice of who got which pay rate was entirely random. After answering ten questions, subjects were asked to rate their own reasoning abilities. Even though the highly paid subjects did not perform any better on the reasoning test, they perceived themselves as superior reasoners and harder workers than the low-pay subjects. Perhaps more surprising was the fact that the low-pay workers agreed, rating themselves as less proficient as well.

In the real world, where success and failure are driven by a complex blend of talent, effort, and chance, we are even more disposed to assume that people get what they deserve. For those on the losing end, that assumption is against their self-interest, but it still serves a purpose: It helps reassure them that the world is not utterly chaotic. The system may not be working for them, but at least there is a system.

“The Broken Ladder: How Inequality Affects the Way We Think, Live and Die,” is by Keith Payne, a professor of psychology at the University of North Carolina.
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/17926268/Keith_Payne_-_The_Broken_Lad
der_2017_RETAiL_ePUB_eBOOK-DiSTRiBUT

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Monday, July 3, 2017 9:58 AM

RIVERLOVE

I believe I earned everything I have, but I did have some good luck along the way. While I'm ever grateful for it, I also don't make any apologies for it either.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 11:01 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
I believe I earned everything I have, but I did have some good luck along the way. While I'm ever grateful for it, I also don't make any apologies for it either.

It is only a small step from where you are to saying "I believe (almost) everyone earns everything they have." From that point you can justify having no minimum wage, since everyone earns everything they have and they should only be paid what their work is worth, no matter how little. It's a psychological justification that is very convenient for bosses who feel a need to cheat their employees, yet don't want to feel guilty about being greedy: "I pay them what they are worth." For a recent example:
www.usatoday.com/pages/interactives/news/rigged-retail-giants-enable-t
rucker-exploitation/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 3, 2017 1:58 PM

I actually have to somewhat agree with Second's notion on this. The third option... or at least the shades of gray.

I earned what I got because I worked for it, and there is no true meritocracy.

We're given enough rope to either build a bridge with or to hang ourselves with.

It's a lie when somebody says to you that anybody can be president, but the chances that you can have a better life than your parents had (even in 2017) are still existent. Kiki seems to think that everything is either one or the other, which is just crazy talk.

My lifetime earnings are probably somewhere in the realm of $300,000-$350,000. I've spent about 1/2 of my adult life not employed. Yet I still own my house free and clear, maintain an 822 credit score and have no debts.

If this was because I was white and male, than every white male in the country should be living under similar conditions now, right?

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Monday, July 3, 2017 2:42 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
There is a third possibility: none of the above. You both imagine that there is a system. You don't agree on how that system works.

But there IS a system. Because if it was all by random chance, the circumstances a person is born into would have zero predictive power. It would all be just one big crapshoot. Rich children would have as much opportunity to end up poor as poor children would have to end up rich. And as we see in the US, a person's birth circumstances instead are highly predictive of their adult status.

You know this from your own life, Second. How much chance do you have of being stripped of all assets, being in debt and making only $23K per year, as the final status of your life?

Between being totally in control and totally deserving of everything in our lives, and totally powerless and undeserving of what life gives to us at a whim, there is a third way.

And that's to say we have control over a few things but no control over the rest. So in the end, poor people can't be blamed as intrinsically genetically inferior, because so much of their circumstances and opportunities are out of their control. And rich people can't be credited as being intrinsically genetically superior because they, too, aren't in control of their social circumstances.

What are the limitations that people face?

Well - having been in a position to compete AT AN UNAMBIGUOUS, OVERT, STATED, DISADVANTAGE for union apprenticeships and medical school - I've come up with a theory. There are far fewer good opportunities than there are people capable of using them. When everyone is at least capable and there is no RATIONAL way to pick and choose who will make good and who won't - how do you distinguish between them and select the few who will be chosen? You make up stories that favor your group, if you're the group in power. Blacks are lazy and shiftless. Women are brainless and emotional. Hispanics are stupid bangers. Old people are technical idiots. Men play instruments with more bravura and fire. Women are bad at math. Old people are dinosaurs. And so on.

And then, when people are forced to compete at a disadvantage and fewer from those groups 'make it', you point to them as a group and say - see? They're inferior.

What advantaged groups fear most in the US (and advantage is a relative term in this pecking order) is FAIRNESS. Who wants fair if you're used to some guarantees?

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 2:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Hey dipshit.

I'm the one saying that I deserve what I got, both good and bad.

You're the one saying that everything is predetermined by your color and your sex, and that I don't deserve anything I've worked for and saved for.

Go fuck yourself. I'm done talking to somebody who flip flops every post and argues just for arguments sake.

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker: Kiki seems to think that everything is either one or the other, which is just crazy talk.

And here's dipshit jackass making black and white statements, and projecting them on to me.

HI DIPSHIT JACKASS! You just earned yourself the DIPSHIT JACKASS handle!

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 3:09 PM

Nobody knows what you think Kiki, because you say something different and contradictory with every post.

You like to argue so much, you argue with yourself.

I find it funny when you're doing it with T and G all the time, but then I foolishly tie myself up in a stupid debate with you and realize the frustration they put themselves through almost every day.

I've done this before with you.

Shame on me.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 6:29 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

DIPSHIT JACKASS

YOU'RE the one who ducks factual posts with personal attacks and dismissive responses

Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
lol... You would basically be Second if you agreed on politics.

Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
lol

You post REALLY Hitlerian statements (that are also completely wrong)
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
and only the smartest and toughest would make it and population control would happen under natural selection. A very tough pill for a lot of people to swallow, this option, but a few generations from now would see a Human Race of the highest caliber and most driven united people ever known.

And claim that there's a global conspiracy to kill off half the people on the planet, in Africa specifically because, confusingly, darker skin makes for lower wages ... so really smart powerful people are killing off low-wage Africans.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Do you honestly think on a small scale at least they haven't already been doing it, mostly in places like Africa ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
and usually the darker their skin the cheaper the labor is, so yanno...

Then you double down on your 'genetically inferior' canard, with zero evidence and backed by nothing except your own ego that makes you think you're smarter than everyone else, in which you claim that people who are so poor they receive benefits are genetically inferior.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
What we are living under now is generations of government subsidized Dysgenics, where often the stupidest, weakest and least able to fend for themselves are the ones that are rewarded for having children. What did you think would happen?

Then you make overtly racist claims that WHITE people in westernized countries have lower birth rates, but no one else.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
White people in Westernized society have low birth rates. There is not low birth rates in any other demographic in Westernized societies.

But back away from your claims that poor people are where they deserve to be:
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
What gives you the idea I believe we live in a meritocracy?

THEN you back away from your 'rich people gonna kill people' fantasy.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
I'm just theorizing here.

AAaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnd, you lie about my post about birth rates in WESTERNIZED countries by applying my statement to the entire world (along with your usual snide remarks when you've been caught out by facts ... again).
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
And yet the population rate on the planet still rises. Fuzzy math?

And lie about YOUR OWN POST by restating it as applying to all income levels instead of poor people as you originally claimed.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
No I don't. I said with Dysgenics, giving rewards to those who have children of all income levels ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Dysgenics, where often the stupidest, weakest and least able to fend for themselves are the ones that are rewarded for having children.
And double down on your claims that the poorest are somehow slated to be offed since they're inferior (because selection against inferiority is the only function of social Darwinism).
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
yes, in many ways the most poor anywhere are the ones least equipped to survive on their own ...
And make absolutist statements about poor people with no regard for a middle ground ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Stupid and weak people are poor because they are weak and stupid ... these people would not procreate because they would have already been eaten.
... and claim you 'deserve' EVERYTHING you have, because you made such good decisions in your life, without any help at all from luck or circumstance.
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
I worked ... I am extremely intelligent ... I didn't buy ... I own my home... I was a master ... I never paid anybody interest ... I made good decisions ... I bought a rehab project at the absolute best possible time ... I reject the notion that I don't deserve what I have today. Or that I only have what I own today simply because of some systemic oppression of non-whites or women

Yep DIPSHIT JACKASS, it was you, ALL you, ALL the time, with never a helping hand from circumstance.

Now HERE, you're dismissing facts ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
No matter what I say, somebody like you is going to find a reason to just say that I'm wrong.
... and straw-manning ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
It's foolish and self-destructive behavior to just say that there is absolutely no benefit to hard work.
... and dismissing facts again when they don't go your way ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
You've provided talking points and bullshit.
... and slinging more personal attacks ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Again. Fuck you.
... and more personal attacks ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
I'm not even going to bother reading all of your other bullshit.
... and another absolutist statement with no room for middle ground ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Being a white male does not mean you have it better than other people.
... and more personal attacks ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Hey dipshit.
... and another absolutist statement that this is a meritocracy ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
I'm the one saying that I deserve what I got, both good and bad.
... strawmanning me ... AGAIN ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
You're the one saying that everything is predetermined by your color and your sex, and that I don't deserve anything I've worked for and saved for.
... and pooping more personal attacks ...
Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Go fuck yourself.

And finally ... you post the perfect description of
YOURSELF!

Originally posted by DIPSHIT JACKASS:
Nobody knows what you think DIPSHIT JACKASS, because you say something different and contradictory with every post.

YAY DIPSHIT JACKASS! After hammering the entire wall, you FINALLY hit a nail on the head!

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 6:42 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

You know this from your own life, Second. How much chance do you have of being stripped of all assets, being in debt and making only $23K per year, as the final status of your life?

I know what you mean.

When classes are reproduced through market merit, rather than through artificial forms of inheritance, it is easy for the meritorious winners to convince themselves that any resulting inequalities are morally justified. In fact, what might start to feel unfair is the redistribution of resources from winners to losers. After all, we won fair and square, didn’t we? No, we did not.

In the USA, those in higher-income families think people are rich because “he or she worked harder than others,” while those of more modest means think it is because “he or she had more advantages.” By the way, $112,000 per year will put an American household in the top 20% of the income distribution, where one of the perks is to be a lord over minimum wage slaves, hiring & firing them.

The central political challenge here is to persuade the winners that, in many cases, their success is not the result of their own brilliance but the lottery of birth. Then we might stand a chance of getting more support for reforms that go some way toward equalizing chances.

https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/17941215/Dream_Hoarders__How_the_Amer
ican_Upper_Middle_Class_Is_Leaving_E

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, July 3, 2017 7:01 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Monday, July 3, 2017 7:02 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

While I've been trying to point out what is and is not a meritocracy ... and how our system specifically really isn't one ...

I've been careful not to come out in favor of one, either. Nor am I in favor of our inherited caste system.

I think we pretty much understand the problems of an inherited caste system - the best and the brightest, on whom our survival depends so desperately - aren't being allowed to reach their full contribution because they're artificially denied equal opportunities.

But a full-on meritocracy isn't in our interests, either. Its ultimate expression would be something like Sparta, only presumably more rationally administered (genetic testing followed by a D&C or chemical abortion rather than a quick look-over after birth and a toss off the cliff). But then, that didn't work out so well for the Spartans as a sustainable civilization, due to a small elite population ruling over a large drone (slave) population that wasn't terribly vested in maintaining the system.

The problem is - it's complicated. (And even more pressing in the advent of CRISPR-CAS9 technology, which allows pretty finely controlled genetic engineering.)

And I have some ideas about where we might draw some lines. But, it'll have to wait till later because it's a number of considerations. I gave myself so much time on the internet, but time is up; and I need to get some things done.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2017 12:11 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

To briefly recap a narrative - a while ago I posted a story about a grandma who had a Down's syndrome mosaic daughter who had three poorly functioning children of her own - and it looked like the entire family might have been headed to being on disability.

At the time I said that there could have been any number of causes for those children to do so poorly, from lead-containing moonshine the mother might have drunk to simply the stress of living in a chaotic household. And I had concluded that it all went south when the daughter had children she couldn't care for, and that it would have been best if the daughter had been put on an implantable (iud or depo-provera) birth control to prevent that situation in the first place.

The family would appear to be the quintessential example of the people some would slate for extinction due to genetic inferiority.

But here's the thing. We don't actually know if what's wrong with the children is in their DNA sequence, ie genetic. Despite advances in manipulating and studying particular individual genes in an academic lab, when it comes to genetic variations in the entire genome, and what they might or might not affect in an individual - we're almost clueless. Then when you look at EPIgenetic changes (changes to DNA coiling which renders it unavailable as a template for cell structure and function) which can be BOTH influenced by the environment AND passed down to the next generation - we're hopelessly outmatched.

So it would be very inaccurate to say that these are genetic changes that must be be eliminated from the population.

And my conclusion that the daughter should have been best put on some involuntary but reversible form of birth control had nothing to do with whether she was genetically undesirable. It's simply based on a practical observation that she doesn't have the wherewithal to care for children.

So anyway, we have these kids running around as stand-ins for poor children anywhere in the US.

WHAT TO DO WITH THEM? Rather than weed them out in a meritocracy or grudgingly continue their meager existence on the dole, I think we need to pour resources into developing them to their fullest potential. Because we simply don't know enough about what makes someone smart, or talented. We don't know where the next breakthrough will come from.

And when it comes to trying to figure out if THEY should have children, genetically speaking, we don't know enough about that either. Yanno, you can screen for DNA diseases and prevent those flawed offspring from coming to term - but then OOPS. There goes Stephen Hawking.

So my answer would be we need to pour our resources into all our children as our primary goal, no matter what their status in the hierarchy, or the assumptions we might make about their nature.

And PS - that 1 in 68 children in the US is now born with some level of autism is a tsunami that's still on the horizon, but aimed right at us and headed fast.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Tuesday, July 4, 2017 10:21 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

This is a story about reacting to bad circumstances in the worst way possible. It’s not exactly a minimum wage story because the job is $13/hour:

When I mention the plight of my community, I am often met with an explanation that goes something like this: “Of course the prospects for working-class whites have worsened, J.D., but you’re putting the chicken before the egg. They’re divorcing more, marrying less, and experiencing less happiness because their economic opportunities have declined. If they only had better access to jobs, other parts of their lives would improve as well.”

I once held this opinion myself, and I very desperately wanted to believe it during my youth. It makes sense. Not having a job is stressful, and not having enough money to live on is even more so. As the manufacturing center of the industrial Midwest has hollowed out, the white working class has lost both its economic security and the stable home and family life that comes with it.

But experience can be a difficult teacher, and it taught me that this story of economic insecurity is, at best, incomplete. A few years ago, during the summer before I enrolled at Yale Law School, I was looking for full-time work in order to finance my move to New Haven, Connecticut. A family friend suggested that I work for him in a medium-sized floor tile distribution business near my hometown. Floor tile is extraordinarily heavy: Each piece weighs anywhere from three to six pounds, and it’s usually packaged in cartons of eight to twelve pieces. My primary duty was to lift the floor tile onto a shipping pallet and prepare that pallet for departure. It wasn’t easy, but it paid thirteen dollars an hour and I needed the money, so I took the job and collected as many overtime shifts and extra hours as I could.

The tile business employed about a dozen people, and most employees had worked there for many years. One guy worked two full-time jobs, but not because he had to: His second job at the tile business allowed him to pursue his dream of piloting an airplane. Thirteen dollars an hour was good money for a single guy in our hometown—a decent apartment costs about five hundred dollars a month—and the tile business offered steady raises. Every employee who worked there for a few years earned at least sixteen dollars an hour in a down economy, which provided an annual income of thirty-two thousand—well above the poverty line even for a family. Despite this relatively stable situation, the managers found it impossible to fill my warehouse position with a long-term employee. By the time I left, three guys worked in the warehouse; at twenty-six, I was by far the oldest.

One guy, I’ll call him Bob, joined the tile warehouse just a few months before I did. Bob was nineteen with a pregnant girlfriend. The manager kindly offered the girlfriend a clerical position answering phones. Both of them were terrible workers. The girlfriend missed about every third day of work and never gave advance notice. Though warned to change her habits repeatedly, the girlfriend lasted no more than a few months. Bob missed work about once a week, and he was chronically late. On top of that, he often took three or four daily bathroom breaks, each over half an hour. It became so bad that, by the end of my tenure, another employee and I made a game of it: We’d set a timer when he went to the bathroom and shout the major milestones through the warehouse—“Thirty-five minutes!” “Forty-five minutes!” “One hour!”

Eventually, Bob, too, was fired. When it happened, he lashed out at his manager: “How could you do this to me? Don’t you know I’ve got a pregnant girlfriend?” And he was not alone: At least two other people, including Bob’s cousin, lost their jobs or quit during my short time at the tile warehouse.
You can’t ignore stories like this when you talk about equal opportunity. Nobel-winning economists worry about the decline of the industrial Midwest and the hollowing out of the economic core of working whites. What they mean is that manufacturing jobs have gone overseas and middle-class jobs are harder to come by for people without college degrees. Fair enough—I worry about those things, too. But this book is about something else: what goes on in the lives of real people when the industrial economy goes south. It’s about reacting to bad circumstances in the worst way possible. It’s about a culture that increasingly encourages social decay instead of counteracting it.

The problems that I saw at the tile warehouse run far deeper than macroeconomic trends and policy. Too many young men immune to hard work. Good jobs impossible to fill for any length of time. And a young man with every reason to work — a wife-to-be to support and a baby on the way — carelessly tossing aside a good job with excellent health insurance. More troublingly, when it was all over, he thought something had been done to him. There is a lack of agency here — a feeling that you have little control over your life and a willingness to blame everyone but yourself. This is distinct from the larger economic landscape of modern America.

Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis by J. D. Vance
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/16299268/Hillbilly_Elegy_]

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 4, 2017 12:02 PM

REAVERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Remember, increasing the minimum wage means the employer pays almost double the increase, which then must be collected by charging more for the product or service, which is then paid for by the Minimum Wage Earner.
So, getting an increase in the Minimum Wage means the costs double and the Minimum Wage Earner is TWICE as far behind in the Earning/Cost ratio!!

This is exactly how the dollar gets devalued. It's not from the Chinese worker getting 2 rice balls per day instead of one - it is from the American Minimum Wage increases.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
One way or another you're paying for it anyway. I could get a job tomorrow and in 3 months I will be receiving $2,400/yr tax free food stamps. Being a single male, my EIC will only be around $200/yr, but many of the women I worked with at my last job were getting between $400-$600/month in food stamps and $6,000-$12,000/yr in EIC. That means while I'm paying a modest sum on taxes, they're working the same job as I do and paying no taxes and being paid twice as much as I make.
EIC overpayment is all hocus pocus from Obama, the foundation of his plan to destroy America and the economy. If this ws based upon economic principles and value or productivity, this EIC overpayment garbage would not exist.
Quote:

That's not even taking into consideration all the people getting healthcare for free now when middle class workers are paying 3 times as much and have double the deductible for their family.
All due to Obamacare destroying the economy.
Quote:
Meanwhile, the car insurance and homeowners insurance this year saw another 10% increase by me,
increased costs germinated by the increased Minimum Wage cause companies to increase their rates to pay for it it
Quote:
and local property taxes jumped 15% (a majority of that increase going to schools).
HELLOOOOOO!!!!! Increase in Minimum Wage requires by Law that UNION TEACHERS get paid more for doing less. This is exactly why they want to raise the Minimum Wage!! - so they have an excuse to raise your taxes to pay for their McMansions. In my neighboring Florence County, the High School Math teacher bought his first Island some years ago - and his wife does not work.
Quote:
8 years of Obama and the average American worker is making 3% more than they were when he got into office. Even with the modest increases in inflation that J0 provided the compounded inflation rate over the same 8 years was over 18%... Meanwhile, corporations are now making more than 60% more than when Obama first took office.
Sure, but you are supposed to believe all of the lies that he told you, so you'll be happy. Aren't you a BELIEVER?

This is the sort of fiction that keeps me coming back. Thanks for the laughs!.

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Wednesday, July 5, 2017 7:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Remember, increasing the minimum wage means the employer pays almost double the increase, which then must be collected by charging more for the product or service, which is then paid for by the Minimum Wage Earner.
So, getting an increase in the Minimum Wage means the costs double and the Minimum Wage Earner is TWICE as far behind in the Earning/Cost ratio!!

This is exactly how the dollar gets devalued. It's not from the Chinese worker getting 2 rice balls per day instead of one - it is from the American Minimum Wage increases.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
One way or another you're paying for it anyway. I could get a job tomorrow and in 3 months I will be receiving $2,400/yr tax free food stamps. Being a single male, my EIC will only be around $200/yr, but many of the women I worked with at my last job were getting between $400-$600/month in food stamps and $6,000-$12,000/yr in EIC. That means while I'm paying a modest sum on taxes, they're working the same job as I do and paying no taxes and being paid twice as much as I make.
EIC overpayment is all hocus pocus from Obama, the foundation of his plan to destroy America and the economy. If this ws based upon economic principles and value or productivity, this EIC overpayment garbage would not exist.
Quote:

That's not even taking into consideration all the people getting healthcare for free now when middle class workers are paying 3 times as much and have double the deductible for their family.
All due to Obamacare destroying the economy.
Quote:
Meanwhile, the car insurance and homeowners insurance this year saw another 10% increase by me,
increased costs germinated by the increased Minimum Wage cause companies to increase their rates to pay for it it
Quote:
and local property taxes jumped 15% (a majority of that increase going to schools).
HELLOOOOOO!!!!! Increase in Minimum Wage requires by Law that UNION TEACHERS get paid more for doing less. This is exactly why they want to raise the Minimum Wage!! - so they have an excuse to raise your taxes to pay for their McMansions. In my neighboring Florence County, the High School Math teacher bought his first Island some years ago - and his wife does not work.
Quote:
8 years of Obama and the average American worker is making 3% more than they were when he got into office. Even with the modest increases in inflation that J0 provided the compounded inflation rate over the same 8 years was over 18%... Meanwhile, corporations are now making more than 60% more than when Obama first took office.
Sure, but you are supposed to believe all of the lies that he told you, so you'll be happy. Aren't you a BELIEVER?
This is the sort of fiction that keeps me coming back. Thanks for the laughs!.

Which fact do you consider fiction?

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Monday, July 10, 2017 7:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts
-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.ec388241b469

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-w
age-is-costing-jobs/

Edit: today on July 10 I am editing this because I failed to complete this post. These were a couple of the news links about the new study with the same results - this one by University of Washington regarding the minimum wage hikes in Seattle.

Sorry for the delay. This thread got a bunch of traffic after this, which was posted June 29.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 7:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/26/new-study-casts
-doubt-on-whether-a-15-minimum-wage-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.ec388241b469

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/uw-study-finds-seattles-minimum-w
age-is-costing-jobs/
So are $15 per hour employees leaving Seattle for cities that pay $7.50 because they prefer the lower wage and working more hours?

I think not. I suspect the former employees who used to get $7.50 and are not unemployed any more are exploring the unemployment benefit programs (government handouts, redistribution of confiscated funds from the remaining employed). Now those earning less money, but more per hour for fewer hours, are finding themselves helping or supplanting the needs of their friends and families who do not have any income in Seattle, perhaps commuting to other communities where they can earn at least something.
Quote:
And if they did leave Seattle that would be good because there would be less competition among the people left behind for low cost housing around Seattle.
Why would they leave low cost housing of Seattle just because the jobs left Seattle? Now they can commute outside Seattle for jobs, and their lower level of income would make the Seattle Minimum Wage Earners appear relatively wealthier, creating greater demand for low cost housing, and perhaps disqualifying Seattle workers from low-income housing, forcing them out in favor of those no longer employed at Minimum Wage.
Quote:
Looks like a win-win for everybody except employers.
You really consider more unemployed to be a win for the unemployed? Fewer jobs available for those trying to get jobs?
You must be just evil - or, of course, Democrat/Liberal. Same difference as evil.

Quote:

There really is no hard lower limit on wages other than employees starving to death or freezing to death on their days off.

More of the Evil/Democrat/Liberal giddiness.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 7:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
The problem between minimum wage as it is now and $15/hr is that you end up losing a lot of that extra money right out of the gates in all of the government benefits that you lose.

Somebody who is single with no kids making minimum wage gets around $200/mo in food stamps as well as energy assistance, $10/mo internet, a free cell phone and essentially free healthcare. A single mother with 3 kids gets around $500-600 a month in foodstamps, free healthcare for her and the kids, the energy assistance, $10/mo internet, a free cell phone and doesn't pay any federal income tax and gets around $9000.00 from the government in EIC credits.

Double the single person with no kids pay and they lose all of those benefits, which eats a huge chunk out of that extra pay.

Double the single mother's pay and she loses most of the benefits, although she gets to keep the EIC, minus whatever federal taxes she now must pay because she's in the payable brackets.

You are using far too much logic and reason - you are going to lose all the Libtards who are allergic to reason or thought, and have the FACTS Vaccine.

Quote:

If benefit limits do not go up with the minimum wage increase, you're essentially putting the welfare burden off of the State and onto the businesses. I don't mind that so much when you're talking about McDonalds or WalMart, but that's not fair to small businesses.

Not sure about where you are, but most McDonald's are franchises - each location is a small business. The corporation only gets income from the franchisees, not dealing with the employees or their expenses.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 7:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Although unattributed, this clip was posted by 6String on May 10 - an the context was a comparison of Communism and Capitalism, with the prelude being "under pure Capitalism..." Kiki posted this on July 1.
Quote:

Quote:
and only the smartest and toughest would make it and population control would happen under natural selection. A very tough pill for a lot of people to swallow, this option, but a few generations from now would see a Human Race of the highest caliber and most driven united people ever known.
There is nothing right about this, and so much wrong with this, it's hard to know where to start.

What did Darwin mean by 'survival of the fittest'? He certainly didn't mean a species where every member of that species is in deadly competition with every other member of that species for individual supremacy! He was talking about survival OF A SPECIES as a whole.
6String is not the first to apply the macrocosm of species to the microcosm of races, nations, religions, among the only species which has these. One can also take his "make it" as "being more successful" or similar.
Quote:

Being the 'fittest' means maximizing the survival of your offspring to the point where they have offspring of their own. That's how a species survives. Sometimes - especially for physically weak, social animals with extraordinarily dependent offspring, like us - it means cooperation and cleverness. Sometimes it means having so many offspring that nature can't eliminate them all. Sometimes it means having really good DNA repair mechanisms so that your species can survive environments other species can't. Sometimes it means being able to digest things other species can't.

That whole notion that somehow the species or some portion of it will improve by eliminating its 'weakest' members means that all the children die first, then the females. And oops - there goes the species. It's just stupid.
Or, more easily, just have some grandfathers generate a petulant disagreement so that an entire community is eliminated (genocide, war, etc) and the offspring are included. Whether by violence, or starvation among families, does it matter? Children and women are not always the weakest of mind - most liberals are far more dumb. The weakest of mind, will, resources may be the reasonable allegory here.
Quote:

And how does making every individual compete with every other individual select for better individuals? Isn't it likely you'll select for the most heartless, most self-protective, and conniving, rather than the smartest, most courageous, and strongest?
In a population growth type factor, how did Hitler, Idi Amin, Chavez, Castro, Lenin, or most other non-elected leaders fare before they finally perished?

Quote:

And it REALLY doesn't make for the most united group either, as you claim! Not when someone else can only gain at your expense - and the other way around!

I truly have no idea how you've come to accept this notion. It makes no sense when you think about it.

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Monday, July 10, 2017 11:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
The problem between minimum wage as it is now and $15/hr is that you end up losing a lot of that extra money right out of the gates in all of the government benefits that you lose.

Somebody who is single with no kids making minimum wage gets around $200/mo in food stamps as well as energy assistance, $10/mo internet, a free cell phone and essentially free healthcare. A single mother with 3 kids gets around $500-600 a month in foodstamps, free healthcare for her and the kids, the energy assistance, $10/mo internet, a free cell phone and doesn't pay any federal income tax and gets around $9000.00 from the government in EIC credits.

Double the single person with no kids pay and they lose all of those benefits, which eats a huge chunk out of that extra pay.

Double the single mother's pay and she loses most of the benefits, although she gets to keep the EIC, minus whatever federal taxes she now must pay because she's in the payable brackets.
You are using far too much logic and reason - you are going to lose all the Libtards who are allergic to reason or thought, and have the FACTS Vaccine.
Quote:

If benefit limits do not go up with the minimum wage increase, you're essentially putting the welfare burden off of the State and onto the businesses. I don't mind that so much when you're talking about McDonalds or WalMart, but that's not fair to small businesses.
Not sure about where you are, but most McDonald's are franchises - each location is a small business. The corporation only gets income from the franchisees, not dealing with the employees or their expenses.

Yeah... Logic and reason are hard things to deal with having when most people you talk to don't measure up. I notice that's a non-partisan thing in most aspects of life, but when it comes to issues such as this, the liberals are on the short end of that stick because the dumbest people at the bottom of the food chain tend to congregate there.

You are correct about McDonalds. Consider that part of my post retracted.

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Sunday, December 31, 2017 3:23 PM

Looks like Ontario, Canada is also trying to get in on the Putting Businesses Out of Business by Raising Minimum Wage.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/ontario-businesses-raise-prices-cons
ider-150957886.html

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Friday, October 12, 2018 8:41 PM

I just heard some factoids about Minimum Wage Workers. I do not have the source info.

But if somebody has conflicting data, with sources, I would like to hear that as well.

In 2014 when Obama was campaigning on Minimum Wage, the percentage of workers getting paid Minimum Wage was 1.8%, with an average age of 22.
Now the percentage of workers getting paid Minimum Wage is 0.6%, with 99% of that group being under the age of 25.

Also heard that the last time Wage growth was as high as this year was 32 years ago. Yes, that would be 1986, under Ronald Wilson Reagan.

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Friday, October 12, 2018 10:11 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

That would take some serious effort to unscramble. I believe when the BLS publishes wage* figures, they're for full-time regular employees. Somehow, the figures for part-time, temp, independent contractor, and self-employed people would have to be dug out, as well as percentages of each, to come up with a grand wage* average then** and now**.

*wage rather than income, since income includes money coming in not necessarily due to work, and includes CEOs, DEOs etc income

** I believe the percentages of different types of employment have changed so significantly (due to large numbers of the 'marginally attached' and others), simple wage figures would be misleading

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Sunday, February 3, 2019 1:52 PM