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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Anybody heard Trump is working with Pelosi/Shumer to completely eliminate the Debt Ceiling?
Then he can spend whatever he wants anytime, without restriction.

Fiscal restraint was a concern before the election, but did anybody see this coming?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Anybody heard Trump is working with Pelosi/Shumer to completely eliminate the Debt Ceiling?
Then he can spend whatever he wants anytime, without restriction.

Fiscal restraint was a concern before the election, but did anybody see this coming?

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GOP had no interest in capping it either, so I think this is more of Trump just sticking a thumb in the eye of the GOP than anything. They failed on repeal/ replace, haven't moved on tax reform ( FAIR Tax, hello ? ) ... the man needs to move the chains, and if the GOP aren't going to play ball, it's on them, not Trump.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I had thought there was another thread about Trump's mfaliures or borken promises, but don't see it now.


Newest broken promise: he works out a deal to increase the Debt Ceiling, without any valid excuse, reason, or rationalization.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/6/donald-trump-agrees-deb
t-limit-deal/

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Who thinks the wall is in any way a good idea?

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Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
We don't exactly have a problem with Canadian illegals.

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Who thinks the wall is in any way a good idea?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm with SIX: 100 days is far too short to a span of time to judge the success or failure of a President. Even nine months is too short.

Obama didn't get "Obamacare" until two years into his Presidency. (2010)

Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)

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Although SALT 1 wasn't signed (1991) by Reagan, he DID begin the negotiations process halfway through his second term.

Nixon didn't end the Vietnam "police action" and negotiate the petrodollar until the end of his first term (1973).

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The significance of some Presidential policies don't even become fully realized until ten years or more after they leave office.

*****

So given that it's early days yet on the Trump administration, it might be too soon to talk about "greatest" failures, but it sure isn't too soon to start throwing sticks on the bonfire!

I'd sure like to get into a discussion with all of you on what YOU see as Trump's biggest failures so far (SECOND, can you please restrict yourself to IMPORTANT items, instead of really stupid shit and unverifiable opinion?)

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Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

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US mortgage-backed securities, which had risks that were hard to assess, were marketed around the world, as they offered higher yields than U.S. government bonds. Many of these securities were backed by subprime mortgages, which collapsed in value when the U.S. housing bubble burst during 2006 and homeowners began to default on their mortgage payments in large numbers starting in 2007.

The emergence of sub-prime loan losses in 2007 began the crisis and exposed other risky loans and over-inflated asset prices. With loan losses mounting and the fall of Lehman Brothers on 15 September 2008, a major panic broke out on the inter-bank loan market. There was the equivalent of a bank run on the shadow banking system, resulting in many large and well established investment and commercial banks in the United States and Europe suffering huge losses and even facing bankruptcy, resulting in massive public financial assistance (government bailouts).

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the rpublican party.

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Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

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It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007.

The collapse was CLEARLY sourced in the massive amount of subprime (and often fraudulent) home real estate loans, and the sale of mortgage-backed products and Credit Default Swaps by the shadow banking system to depository banks, pension funds, Fannie and Freddie, to banks and financial institutions around the world, and even to the bond insurers like AIG.

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That's how the "contagion" spread around the western world. Nothing was in place to stop the contagion because Clinton had repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932, which was previously a hard protective line between depository institutions, and the more speculative investment banks. Clinton also signed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act which allowed the creation of Credit Default Swaps and other loosey-goosey investment "products", which brought us Enron and helped usher in the Great Recession.

What BUSH managed to do was transfer wealth to the wealthy with a massive cap gain tax cut which left the less-well-off vulnerable to relying on credit and "get rich quick" schemes (like real estate bubbles).

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US mortgage-backed securities, which had risks that were hard to assess, were marketed around the world, as they offered higher yields than U.S. government bonds. Many of these securities were backed by subprime mortgages, which collapsed in value when the U.S. housing bubble burst during 2006 and homeowners began to default on their mortgage payments in large numbers starting in 2007.

The emergence of sub-prime loan losses in 2007 began the crisis and exposed other risky loans and over-inflated asset prices. With loan losses mounting and the fall of Lehman Brothers on 15 September 2008, a major panic broke out on the inter-bank loan market. There was the equivalent of a bank run on the shadow banking system, resulting in many large and well established investment and commercial banks in the United States and Europe suffering huge losses and even facing bankruptcy, resulting in massive public financial assistance (government bailouts).

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Wikipedia on D Trump
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump

As of 2017, he was the 544th richest person in the world, with
an estimated net worth of $3.5 billion.

Trump had long expressed interest in politics. He entered the 2016
presidential race as a Republican and defeated sixteen opponents
in the primaries. Commentators described his political positions
as populist, protectionist, and nationalist. His campaign received
extensive free media coverage; many of his public statements were
controversial or false. Trump won the general election on November
8, 2016, in a surprise victory against Democratic opponent Hillary
Clinton.
He became the oldest & wealthiest person ever to assume the presidency,
the first without prior military or government service, and the fifth to
have won the election despite losing the popular vote. His election and
policies have sparked numerous protests.

( Yeah, I know: Wikipedia is not the Encyclopedia Britannica.
  It's contributions from "just folks." )

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Do you believe every tidbit of revisionist tripe the Libtards present to you?
Libtards have worked tirelessly to incessantly repeat the revisionist history lies that you have mostly regurgitated here. How many times before you succumbed to the onslaught of illogic and irrationality?

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That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the rpublican party. Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007.

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The collapse was CLEARLY sourced in the massive amount of subprime (and often fraudulent) home real estate loans, and the sale of mortgage-backed products and Credit Default Swaps by the shadow banking system to depository banks, pension funds, Fannie and Freddie, to banks and financial institutions around the world, and even to the bond insurers like AIG. - SIGNY

Good of you to point out the disastrous effects of Obama's ACORN work, before he even took Public Office.

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Every reasonable person knew it was a disaster at the time, and clearly that is why Obama tirelessly pursued it, because destruction and disaster was always Obama's goal.- JSF

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That's how the "contagion" spread around the western world. Nothing was in place to stop the contagion because Clinton had repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1932, which was previously a hard protective line between depository institutions, and the more speculative investment banks. Clinton also signed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act which allowed the creation of Credit Default Swaps and other loosey-goosey investment "products", which brought us Enron and helped usher in the Great Recession.

What BUSH managed to do was transfer wealth to the wealthy with a massive cap gain tax cut which left the less-well-off vulnerable to relying on credit and "get rich quick" schemes (like real estate bubbles). - SIGNY

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US mortgage-backed securities, which had risks that were hard to assess, were marketed around the world, as they offered higher yields than U.S. government bonds. Many of these securities were backed by subprime mortgages, which collapsed in value when the U.S. housing bubble burst during 2006 and homeowners began to default on their mortgage payments in large numbers starting in 2007.

The emergence of sub-prime loan losses in 2007 began the crisis and exposed other risky loans and over-inflated asset prices. With loan losses mounting and the fall of Lehman Brothers on 15 September 2008, a major panic broke out on the inter-bank loan market. There was the equivalent of a bank run on the shadow banking system, resulting in many large and well established investment and commercial banks in the United States and Europe suffering huge losses and even facing bankruptcy, resulting in massive public financial assistance (government bailouts).- WIKIPEDIA

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Reality, facts, truth can be unforgiving, and relentlessly Non-PC.- JSF

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Do you believe every tidbit of revisionist tripe the Libtards present to you?-
Libtards have worked tirelessly to incessantly repeat the revisionist history lies that you have mostly regurgitated here. How many times before you succumbed to the onslaught of illogic and irrationality? - JSF

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What were their excuses when it was happening - do you have any idea, or recall? All of the Libtard news I saw kept saying to keep your money in the collapsing market - they had no clue.- JSF

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Only the reasonable people knew what was going on. I was constantly steamed every time I saw CNN feverishly working to convince working Americans to lose all of their hard earned money. Causing needless suffering - but that is the hallmark and tradecraft of Libtards and Democraps.- JSF

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Originally posted by Oonjerah:
As I indicated, Wikipedia: articles-donated-by-people. Dunno if
the souce is biased or merely vague, uniformed. ... Yet on this
forum, some of You seem educated enough to teach this stuff.
Did you just say that DJ Trump ran as a democrat & a reform
party before scoring as a republican? (Dedicated or Not?)

BTW, purely by accident, I have a 1987 copy of The Art of the Deal.
I didn't read it, don't know if anything in there would help to enlighten.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the rpublican party. Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007.

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JSF, I just wanted to make that crystal clear. BTW, if you want to figure out WHO was at the controls of the Federal budget, Republicans were in control of the House from 1995 to 2009, and Republicans were in control of the Senate over the same time period, except a 2-year gap from 1999 to 2001.

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So in the relevant time period - eight to fourteen years BEFORE the collapse, REPUBLICANS were mostly in control of DC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congres
ses

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the rpublican party. Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007.

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JSF, I just wanted to make that crystal clear. BTW, if you want to figure out WHO was at the controls of the Federal budget, Republicans were in control of the House from 1995 to 2009, and Republicans were in control of the Senate over the same time period, except a 2-year gap from 1999 to 2001.

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How can you post such obvious lies, and pretend that your Libtard Facts have any basis in reality?
The 110th Congress, in session for 2007 and 2008, was populated with 233 Democraps and 202 Republicans in the House if Representatives.
What form of Libtard Math translates that into "Republican Control" anyway?

The Senate had 49 Republicans. News Flash: there are a total of 100 Senators in the Senate. How is 49 of 100 equal to "Control" in Libtard Math?
With 2 "Independents" caucasing with the 49 Democrats, this 51% is where "Control" laid.
Independent Democrap Lieberman and Socialist Sanders were to the Left of Democraps, and we're not going to caucus with Republicans.

The Koolaid is strong with you.
You do good regurgitation. Your Kommandant should be proud.
GIGO.

Is everything else you posted just more lies?

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So in the relevant time period - eight to fourteen years BEFORE the collapse, REPUBLICANS were mostly in control of DC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congres
ses

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That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the republican party. Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007. I just wanted to make that crystal clear. BTW, if you want to figure out WHO was at the controls of the Federal budget, Republicans were in control of the House from 1995 to 2009, and Republicans were in control of the Senate over the same time period, except a 2-year gap from 1999 to 2001. - SIGNY

How can you post such obvious lies, and pretend that your Libtard Facts have any basis in reality? The 110th Congress, in session for 2007 and 2008, was populated with 233 Democraps and 202 Republicans in the House if Representatives.- JSFhe Senate had 49 Republicans. News Flash: there are a total of 100 Senators in the Senate. How is 49 of 100 equal to "Control" in Libtard Math?

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What form of Libtard Math translates that into "Republican Control" anyway?

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Is everything else you posted just more lies?- JSF

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In your graph, notice the drop when GOP took control of the House in 1995?- JSF

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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That's extremely partisan of you, JSF. Please don't be like the SECOND of the republican party. Bush II didn't achieve utter financial chaos until the very last days of his second term (2008)- SIGNY

Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009. Despite Bush43's successes before the Democraps wreaked havoc.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007. I just wanted to make that crystal clear. BTW, if you want to figure out WHO was at the controls of the Federal budget, Republicans were in control of the House from 1995 to 2009, and Republicans were in control of the Senate over the same time period, except a 2-year gap from 1999 to 2001. - SIGNY

How can you post such obvious lies, and pretend that your Libtard Facts have any basis in reality? The 110th Congress, in session for 2007 and 2008, was populated with 233 Democraps and 202 Republicans in the House if Representatives.- JSFhe Senate had 49 Republicans. News Flash: there are a total of 100 Senators in the Senate. How is 49 of 100 equal to "Control" in Libtard Math?

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In the FOURTEEN YEARS before 2008, there was a ONE YEAR GAP when the GOP was not in control of Congress? Oh whoopie-doo.

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In your graph, notice the drop when GOP took control of the House in 1995?- JSF

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Meaning the Rock The Vote Democraps in office Jan 2007, enacting FY2008 Budget which started Oct 2007 and immediately commenced the downfall into financial chaos for a year before the 2008 election, which Obama continued driving down until Mar 2009.- JSF

It would require a breathtaking mental rewrite of history to blame the Federal budget for the monumental chaos that overtook the financial sector beginning in late 2007. I just wanted to make that crystal clear. BTW, if you want to figure out WHO was at the controls of the Federal budget, Republicans were in control of the House from 1995 to 2009, and Republicans were in control of the Senate over the same time period, except a 2-year gap from 1999 to 2001. - SIGNY

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What form of Libtard Math translates that into "Republican Control" anyway?

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The chart that I was reading was very hard to figure out which lines belonged with which years. I've since linked to the actual figure, which show that the GOP was MOSTLY in control of Congress for a full 14 years before 2008. Now, you can spin that as hard as you like, but it still leaves the GOP in control of Congress for more than 90% of that pre-collapse time.

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14 years minus 4 equals 10. Try 71% in Real Math. Breaking News Flash: 71% is not "more than 90%" in non-Libtard Math.

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Is everything else you posted just more lies?- JSF

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clearly lays the blame for the collapse, not on Obama (whom you would like to blame retroactively)

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None of your retroactive revisionism needed - reasonable people saw the blame fairly and squarely at Obamas feet, right then, before and as it was happening.

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In your graph, notice the drop when GOP took control of the House in 1995?- JSF

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
First of all, don't count 2008. By then, the collapse was already underway, so it's not 14 years in question, it's 13. Like I said, 13.5, if you want to be really picky.

And over ALL that time, the GOP had control of AT LEAST two of the three elements of policy-making- either they were in control of Congress, or they were in control of the House and the Presidency ... that is, when they weren't in control of all three elements.

But even IGNORING all that ... let's assume that your math is correct (which it isn't), what YOU'RE saying is that although the GOP had control of Congress "only" three-quarters of the thirteen years before 2008, and "only" had control of two of three elements of legislation 100% of the time,

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it's all the Democrat's fault.

The Koolaid is strong with this one, indeed.

I'm going to move off your ridiculous argument, and get back to the topic of the thread, which is Trump's greatest failures. I'll be looking at those failures not from the political standpoint of Trump failing to move his agenda items forward, but actually failing the country, as I see it.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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HAS IT NOT OCCURRED TO YOU BY NOW THAT IF YOU HAVE TO RESORT TO LOGICAL FALLACIES AND TROLLING YOUR SO-CALLED ARGUMENTS ARE LIES?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Democraps have had control of at least 2 of the 3 power groups you identified (House, Senate, White House) for 55.6 years of the 76 years before 2009."

I'm curious why you feel the need to go all the way back to 1933, unless all you're trying to do is inflate your argument.

In that case, let me point out how dominant republicans were going back to 1857.

But going back to 1933 - a lot has happened since then - the Great Depression, WWII, the US going off the gold standard, the petro-dollar, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the chronic trade imbalance, the rise of Germany and Japan as high-tech powerhouses and the rise of China as the cheap labor powerhouse of the planet ...

I'd think you'd want to cite more economically relevant time periods.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But it's like big pharma is the third rail that everybody is afraid to touch.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And today Trump announced he will Suspend the Constitution, by cancelling Due Process - because Due Process "takes too long"

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And today Trump announced he will Suspend the Constitution, by cancelling Due Process - because Due Process "takes too long"

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Links please?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And today Trump announced he will Suspend the Constitution, by cancelling Due Process - because Due Process "takes too long"

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Links please?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sorry, can't do links right now. Tomorrow if I remember.

Summary: meeting/panel/press conference or maybe the CNN Town Hall Meeting. With Trump, VP Pence, Diane Fienstein. Talks about school shootings, mental health, etc. At some point Trump tells some Republican that he should include Diane's Anti-gun legislation in the GOP pending legislation, and Diane lights up like a Christmas tree. Pence says police should be able to confiscate weapons from anybody they want, via due process. Trump agrees, but says weapons should be confiscated BEFORE Due Process, because Due Process takes too long.
I highly suspect there is video around somewhere.

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