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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Well let's just say that I'm not comfortable with having any more personal contact with you than we currently have at this point J0.

I'm still willing to work with you on the tax plan, but we'll have to do it on here. If you have any specific questions, or would like me to take the time to write up something more official, just say the word. If you feel you have a lot more to talk about that you'd rather speak it to me, you have a youtube channel. Send me a video that is set to be viewed, but not available to the public.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Can I toss in a few ideaz?

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Maybe there shouldn't be an income tax.

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Maybe the government should run its own banks and utilities, and tariff imports, and make THAT its revenue base.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Did you want me to rewrite the entire American tax code?

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Maybe there shouldn't be an income tax.

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I like this idea up to a point. Alredy added it to the paje.
http://www.7532020.com/TaKS.htm

I think tarrifs wuz the main sours up until around 1900. Not sure. Its a bad idea kuz its very regressiv. It installz the nationz goverment revenue into the prise uv the products we all buy.
m

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Originally posted by JO753:
I may stir in sum stuff from The Skeptics Society and Marilyn Vos Savant forumz that I like, then you and everybody else who wants can offer comments, ideaz, complaints.

m

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Eliminate Income Tax. It applies to workers, earners only. Replace it with Consumption Tax, which is the most progressive Tax.

Many great benefits.

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Originally posted by JO753:
I see your points.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Can I toss in a few ideaz?

Maybe there shouldn't be an income tax.

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Originally posted by JO753:
Glad your back on board.

All the polisy related pajez on my site are intended to be just a jeneral outline. Obviously any spesific lejislation woud be much more detailed. Dont want to obfuscate the messaj with too much detail.

Yes, the tax plan iz a replasement for the existing mess. But if therez sumthing worthwile in the old system I'm not agenst salvajing it.

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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I took a cursory look over it but I don't really have a lot of time to look at it over the next couple of days. I will have a few days off then and will give it a lot more attention.

One issue that sticks out for me now is in Section 1, the Employee Tax. Unfortunately, it's not as cut and dry as you make it sound because of how convoluted everything already is today. Allow me to explain.

Let's say you were working full time in 2018 at $12/hr. That comes to $24,960. However, at the end of the year, you would not be paying 10% taxes on $24,960, which would come out to $2,496. You will be getting the standard deduction of $12,000, so you would only be paying 10% on $12,960, or $1,296...

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which is 5.19%. In this instance, your tax plan would save them 0.19% taxes.

Now let's say that you, like more than 50% of Americans today, were working part time, using the same wage as the last example. Under ACA an employer cannot give you more than 30 hours per week on average without making you full time with all of the health insurance and other benefits that come with that. Now your absolute maximum pay for the year at $12 per hour goes down from $24,960 to only $18,720.

With the $12,000 deduction, your federal taxes would only be 10% of $6,720, or $672... only 3.5% of your actual pay.

Under your new plan, this would be an increase of 1.5% in federal taxes somebody making those exact wages if they worked 30 hours per week, which would never happen, so it would likely be more around 25-28 hours per week average for the year. And since most part-time employees in the country don't even make $12/hr, they would be hit even harder by your new tax than this example.

What this essentially means is that you now just accidentally proposed increasing federal taxes on tens of millions of the lowest earning Americans. Whoops!


Don't feel bad buddy. I know that is not your intention at all. I'll take a look over everything and give you more feedback later this week. :)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Upon re-reading the same part there is another huge problem with it.

What happens to the guy or gal who just got that promotion that put their income from $49,000 per year to $52,000 per year?

Last year their taxes were $2,450 and their take home pay (not including state and local taxes) was $46,550.

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Now they've accepted a lot more work responsibility for what amounts to about a 1/2 percent pay increase. They would have likely been much better off not accepting the promotion and just taking their yearly pay increase which would have meant both more money in the bank and no new job responsibilities.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I didn't misread it. You didn't write it poorly. (I wrote my explanation poorly, and will revise it within the next few days... in the mean time, maybe this further explanation will make you see what I'm trying to get at).

The company doesn't care who is actually paying the taxes, but only what they're going to pay. Just because you say there is no employee tax doesn't mean it's not true. You said yourself that any employee making under $50,000 will be a 5% tax burden for the employee on that employee's income. That's 5% more than it was paying before your tax plan went into effect. That money has to come from somewhere.

Right now, the employee pays it after they get paid.

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I laid out how low those taxes actually are currently for the lowest earners, so I won't do it again. But for 10's of millions of Americans now this means that there will be more Federal taxes collected on their labor, regardless of who actually pays it or when it gets paid (before or after the paycheck).

Right now it's on you to explain to me how this isn't a large increase in taxes on the lowest earners because that's exactly how you wrote it.

It is a larger tax on the lowest earners. It actually does make a difference when the employer is paying those higher taxes up front as well because the company will just hire people in at a lesser wage to offset those taxes.




EDIT:

As for my second note, it wouldn't be the employee who would be wise in that situation to pass up the promotion to avoid additional taxes, but it would be the employer who would be looking out for their best interests to keep their employees under specific blocks of pay by any means necessary. Maybe even termination, especially in right to work states.

Somebody dangerously close to $50,000 per year risks suddenly being only a $2,400 tax burden and jumping up to a $5,100 tax burden with no reason other than they're making a few thousand dollars more.

This type of thing could easily lead to companies instituting practices such as wage freezes, passing people up for promotions, termination and the like to avoid or postpone paying much higher taxes. There are a lot of potential problems with this model.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JO753:
OK, its ready to look at for the jeneral public.

http://www.7532020.com/TaKS.htm

I didnt rite your social security plan exactly like you rote, 6ix, but I think its better. Redusez the burden for most employeez and their employerz.

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Originally posted by JO753:
Payroll tax iz just a different name for income tax, even tho it soundz like it woud be just a tax on employerz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

The jeneral idea for me iz that peepl doing real work shoud pay the lowest tax rates. Currently the oppozit iz true.
m

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You claim to have 4 groups of Tax rates. This will be confusing to most people because you did not explain the major overhaul that your examples reveal.

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For the 62K that your example 1 has, you Tax 10% of every single dollar, instead of 10% of only the dollars between 50K and 62K.

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Your example 2 seems to be contradictory, you should mention to look in the next section, Self Employed.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Consumption Tax is the only real progressive Tax method.

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Of your 4 wealthiest Americans, how much do you expect they will choose to pay in Income Tax during the 4 years of your Presidency?

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Originally posted by JO753:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Consumption Tax is the only real progressive Tax method.

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Keep in mind that I can barely stay awake wile reading and thinking about taxez, so its thru sheer brute forse that I am able to work on this at all.

But, I think you hav it backwardz. Consumption tax iz salez tax, rite?

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That makes a good case for Siggy'z tarrifs.

Their accounting team will need to consider how much they want to make in the U.S. market.

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Personal property taxes are levied against equipment used in the production of income or held as an investment; billboards; foundations for the equipment; and all other tangible property other than real property. Computer application software is considered an intangible asset and is not assessable.

Licensed motor vehicles, trailers, motorized boats, most airplanes, campers, recreational vehicles and other registered vehicles that are subject to excise tax collected at the time of licensure by the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles are not subject to personal property tax.

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Originally posted by JO753:
Maybe I'v left a hyooj hole in the plan?

It seemz to me all super rich peepl reseev their income from their own corporationz and most hi earnerz (like selebrityz, newz ankorz, ball playerz) get their pay az employeez.

The billionaire'z corporationz will be paying 20, 30 or 50% depending on their catagory and the amount they take az salary or wutever will be mostly at 50%.

I havent gotten to thingz like capital gainz, inheritance, etc, but I'm thinking thingz like that shoud be covered by the financial biz tax catagory.

I'v updated the employee tax section and made a few other chanjez.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Well yeah, I said there were a lot of things we hadn't even touched on yet. Warren Buffet himself said that he paid less income tax than his secretary did.

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As another example, in Indiana, one of the reasons Property Tax is so low compared to other neighboring states is because of the "Personal Property Tax/Excise Tax".

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Personal property taxes are levied against equipment used in the production of income or held as an investment; billboards; foundations for the equipment; and all other tangible property other than real property. Computer application software is considered an intangible asset and is not assessable.

Licensed motor vehicles, trailers, motorized boats, most airplanes, campers, recreational vehicles and other registered vehicles that are subject to excise tax collected at the time of licensure by the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles are not subject to personal property tax.

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A huge part of this is the taxes on vehicles. My piece of shit car would cost $112 per year to license in Illinois... The same as somebody with a shiny new Bentley would pay, but in Indiana it's only $32. At the same time, somebody who buys a new $50,000 ride will be paying just under $600 to license it their first year, and that amount drops lower for the first 10 years of the car's life.

This is actually the "Perfect Tax" in my eyes. Not only does the large amount of vehicles on the road in the state heavily subsidize property taxes, but if you don't mind riding around in a 10+ year old car like me than you pay almost nothing for that as well. It's only the people who choose to have a brand new car that have to pay it (whether or not they even own a home or they rent).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JO753:
Maybe I'v left a hyooj hole in the plan?


I'v updated the employee tax section and made a few other chanjez.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by JO753:
Payroll tax iz just a different name for income tax, even tho it soundz like it woud be just a tax on employerz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payroll_tax

The jeneral idea for me iz that peepl doing real work shoud pay the lowest tax rates. Currently the oppozit iz true.
m

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No, Income Tax is only one part of the taxes itemized AFTER the false "earnings" are declared, the "wage" that emoloyees are deluded into thinking are what they cost the emoloyer.
The last time I glimpsed the "actual cost" table, the cost to the company was $35/hr for an employee at the $25/hr pay rate, and $52.5/hr at the $37.5/hr overtime rate. That employee likely got $15/hr in straight time take-home pay, or maybe $17.5/hr with finagling. So of the amount the company paid to have that employee work for an hour, the employee took home 43% - 50% of it - but they were deluded into thinking it was less because of the Federally mandated masquerade of Wage Rate being used on the paystub. The overtime rate got them another $6.67/hr in take-home in 2017, so $21.70hr of the $52.5/hr cost would be 41% take home pay for each OT hour. Or 46% with finagling.
Your solution is not to unmask how much of the employer's cost is confiscated before the employee gets a dime, but to hide even more of it behind the curtain of the Fake Wage Rate hypocrisy. Pretending that the employee gets more like 100% of what the employer pays, instead of 40%. I don't envision your smoke and mirrors ploy to have any real benefit, but it will provide real problems.
Yes, all income taxes are the most regressive methods of Taxation.
Consumption Tax is the only real progressive Tax method.
Of your 4 wealthiest Americans, how much do you expect they will choose to pay in Income Tax during the 4 years of your Presidency?

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