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Originally posted by 1kiki:
The NSA is spying on everyone. Corporations run roughshod over our privacy and our government. Our military expenses are adding to our crippling debt as US troops act as world police to impose 'western order' everywhere. Meanwhile, the rich get richer, and everyone else gets cheated and used.

And a lot of people are pissed off about at least some of this.

That leads in my mind to the legitimate question: how much power do people have to actually change this trajectory in a democracy?

SECOND and jack have implied that the only answer is for the downtrodden to rise up violently. Signy seems unhopeful that people can change the course of government, since 'America is an oligarchy'.

But there have been major cracks in the normal order of things, and many minor ones as well. The three major instances were Brexit, Theresa May, and Trump. Among the more minor instances, nationalist parties have been gaining in Europe, http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36130006 with Orban winning Hungary (and Soros losing ground for his ideology). https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/apr/08/hungary-election-vi
ctor-orban-expected-to-win-third-term-live-updates

Brexit is apparently a done deal. I haven't seen any indication it's about to be reversed.

Sadly, Theresa May is an idiot, riding (or perhaps even the instigator of) 'The Salisbury Incident' to cover her deepening unpopularity (with approval ratings even lower than Trump's).

And then there's Trump, surrounded and hounded by the Deep State into adopting its interventionist, pro-war policies and actions.

So, it appears that democratic elections have so far been overturned by deeply undemocratic forces who are willing to enforce their agenda 'by any means necessary'.

But with any luck, these are only the first trial runs of democracy in opposition to established forces.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I believe Brexit is a return to democracy. It's the result of the people voting on their own future, rather than faceless people in nameless meetings deciding 'for' them.

But, given the failure of 'Grexit', and May and Trump dancing to internationalist pipers, the overall trend isn't looking robust at this point.

So anyway ... anyone up for a rational, fact-based, and civil discussion about the topic?

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

That leads in my mind to the legitimate question: how much power do people have to actually change this trajectory in a democracy?

SECOND and jack have implied that the only answer is for the downtrodden to rise up violently.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
That leads in my mind to the legitimate question: how much power do people have to actually change this trajectory in a democracy?

SECOND and jack have implied that the only answer is for the downtrodden to rise up violently.

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Well... I think that's the only thing that would actually change the trajectory, but it's not the only "answer". In fact, assuming we don't ever find ourselves in a situation where drinkable water and food becomes scarce, I don't think it would ever even happen.

No matter how "bad" things have gotten or will get, for most people, our backs aren't up against a wall. There are government safety nets that put food on the table for those of us who can't afford it on our own.

Sometimes I think that maybe I was just spoiled as a child up until early adulthood. The 80's and 90's were a great time to be growing up in America. The dollar had so much power against any other currency in the world, jobs were plentiful, gas was cheap.

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