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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Still, GSTRING claims to have been part of "that movie". So if he isn't making a claim about something that never happened, what WAS his role in that south-of-the-border snuff film? Maybe his objection to the picture is that he recognized his own handiwork? So far, he's refused to answer that question, despite claiming direct experience.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Rather than being upset by the FACT that we've tortured and killed people in their own nations, or trained and paid someone to do it for us ... GSTRING and THUGR object to PICTURES of our activities? As if "pictures" were the real problem, and not ignorance?

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Apparently GSTRING votes against civility, too: He just can't stop himself from attacking, even in a thread about civility.

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You think me strongly disapproving of you posting images of mutilated children is an attack? How so?

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The United States has "intervened" in every single nation in south and central America (except Costa Rica), in some cases many times over, covertly and overtly, all in behalf of foreign bankers and the IMF, landowners, foreign companies, and their juntas. Most of the time the CIA-deposed leaders were land-reformers who believed in greater social spending for things like education, distributed land ownership, housing and health, but this would not have set well with the profits extracted by foreign banks and transnational corporations. I can provide you with a pretty complete and damning list of "interventions" if you like, or you can read "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man".

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For anyone who thinks there is no need for an International Women’s Day, here’s one reminder from a death squad in Central America that I cannot forget.

At dawn on February 20th 1982, I head off to ship film at the international airport, but I first encounter the victim of a right-wing death squad, later confirmed to have been a 30-year-old woman. What’s left of her body tells the rather complete story of her last hour of life. That is, for anyone willing to look long enough at it, and contemplate all the indignities collected there.
Her underwear is still stretched tight, clinging below her knees. Her attackers must have started off with that, since otherwise it would have been pointless and much more difficult to pull the cloth down after everything else that happened.
On her left hand, still in relatively fresh condition, all the finger tips have been cut off, and then the hand itself is also cut off. The muscles of her left arm are removed down to her wrists. The remainder of her left arm is burned and then also cut off. Long strips of skin are peeled off from her left leg, again an effort unlikely to have happened if she was past caring. The heel of her left foot is the one part of her body to show how hard it dug into the sand. She is finally disemboweled, then scalped. Pieces of her skull are scattered about, and then her head is cut off, which is missing from the scene.

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[The picture was taken by Ross Baughman, an American photojournalist and Pulitzer Prize winner. ]

THIS IS NOT JUST A THING OF THE PAST ... Nicaragua, like the other aforementioned nations, has suffered from widespread protests due to weak currency. SNIPERS HAVE KILLED PROTESTERS THERE RECENTLY. Gee, where have I seen this movie before? Ukraine? Venezuela? Hillary Clinton supported the Coup in Honduras ...

THIS is the topic that GSTRING is not interested in talking about- SIGNY

Wrong again: I am not interested in discussing with you. I've not only "seen that movie" I've been in it.= GSTRING

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Hey Kiki - I need to borrow your lawyer when you're done so I can sue SICKY for defamation, m'kay?

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We do know how you feel though - you think you are responsible, you said so yourself., "we've tortured..." So please tell us what you have done to stop this from happening? What have you done to repay the damage you feel personally responsible for causing?

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You'd think if you were being honest and actually cared so much for these families south of the border that you'd be advocating strongly to bring them to this country where you could take care and protect them.= GSTRING

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I believe in solving problems, not sharing them

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Riot Breaks Out In Portland As Antifa Activists Clash With Conservative Marchers

Scuffles broke out shortly after 6 pm local time as Antifa protesters pelted marchers from the conservative group with eggs, water bottles and firecrackers as the marchers spilled out into downtown Portland for their legally permitted march in support of a conservative Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate. The march followed an afternoon rally at Terry Schrunk Federal Plaza, Reuters reported.

Officers seized weapons like utility knives, clubs and chemical sprays from Antifa protesters as they gathered nearby for their counter-rally.

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Things turned ugly shortly after 6 p.m., when Patriot Prayer protesters spilled into Third Avenue to begin their permitted march through the streets of Portland .... Antifascist counter-demonstrators immediately began lobbing eggs, half-empty water bottles and firecrackers at the conservative marchers, prompting federal police to fire paintballs filled with pepper spray into the crowd.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
More "civility" from the ANTIFA crowd ...

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Riot Breaks Out In Portland As Antifa Activists Clash With Conservative Marchers

Scuffles broke out shortly after 6 pm local time as Antifa protesters pelted marchers from the conservative group with eggs, water bottles and firecrackers as the marchers spilled out into downtown Portland for their legally permitted march in support of a conservative Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate. The march followed an afternoon rally at Terry Schrunk Federal Plaza, Reuters reported.

Officers seized weapons like utility knives, clubs and chemical sprays from Antifa protesters as they gathered nearby for their counter-rally.

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MORE AT
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-01/riot-breaks-out-antifa-attac
ks-conservative-marchers-portland

Also here

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Things turned ugly shortly after 6 p.m., when Patriot Prayer protesters spilled into Third Avenue to begin their permitted march through the streets of Portland .... Antifascist counter-demonstrators immediately began lobbing eggs, half-empty water bottles and firecrackers at the conservative marchers, prompting federal police to fire paintballs filled with pepper spray into the crowd.

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https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/06/portland_police_
revoke_permit.html

And here https://www.reuters.com/article/us-portland-protests-clashes/oregon-ri
ght-wingers-clash-with-anti-fascists-at-march-in-portland-idUSKBN1JR150

UNLIKE WISHY, I think that the proper response to assault (begun by ANTIFA in this case, but next time it could be a different group) is to arrest the individual aggressors.

We should NOT be dividing ourselves up into warring camps. That's so stupid, and we only wind up hurting ourselves. We have much bigger problems to solve; maybe we should get together and start fixing them.

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Almost instantly, the two groups began exchanging blows, throwing objects at one another and shouting—each calling the other "Nazis."

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Joey Gibson returned to Portland in greater numbers than have been seen since last summer, seemingly bent on wresting back the spotlight with street violence.

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[ANTIFA]protesters had been throwing objects at the agents and "antagonizing" them [police]

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Nazis" obtained permits from Portland to gather.

Who DIDN'T obtain permits were auntie-pho.

"The afternoon began with a permitted rally at Terry Schrunk Federal Plaza organized by Joey Gibson, U.S. Senate candidate for Washington and leader of the right-wing, Vancouver-based group.

A counter-demonstration by masked local anti-fascist groups gathered nearby among a heavy police presence."

"Scuffles broke out after anti-fascists pelted marchers from the right-wing Patriot Prayer group with eggs, water bottles and firecrackers, the Oregonian newspaper reported. The Patriot Prayer group’s founder Joey Gibson is running for the Senate."

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Nazis*

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from out of town bus themselves into Portland

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wearing riot gear helmets

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and carrying pipes

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and guess what?

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They do what they went there to do:

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Gibson supports a pathway to citizenship for non-criminal illegal immigrants.
He supports decriminalization of marijuana, and same-sex marriage.
Gibson advocates for establishment of term limits for the U.S. Congress, implementation of a national sales tax, and abolition of the Internal Revenue Service.
He opposes what he describes as undue influence of the pharmaceutical industry on healthcare in the United States.

During a March 2018 campaign rally in Spokane Valley, Washington, Gibson expressed opposition to Antifa, a group that frequently protests at his events, and said regarding white nationalists, "I would say the same thing to them that I would say to any black nationalist or Mexican nationalists [sic] group, we have to drop the identity of politics and focus on what is on the inside."

He has said freedom of speech is a central element to his platform. Gibson's views have been described as "a complicated muddle" by The Inlander and "basically Alex Jones meets Bernie Sanders"

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Nazis*

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YOUR characterization

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from out of town bus themselves into Portland

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As if no ANTIFA demonstration ever had protesters bussed in?

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wearing riot gear helmets

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So they don't get a concussion if someone beats them over the head

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and carrying pipes

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Flagpoles

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and guess what?

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I wait breathlessly for your interpretation!

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They do what they went there to do:

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march down their permitted route, and get set on by a bunch of black-masked assholes.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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No, Antifa never bussed anyone anywhere.

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They [ANTIFA?] were more interested in busting heads. Surely a busload of armed thugs tells you that.

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Flags made with PVC pipe.

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Antifascist counter-demonstrators immediately began lobbing eggs, half-empty water bottles and firecrackers at the conservative marchers

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Nazis ONLY care about hurting and killing people they don't like. That's why they've shot, stabbed, and killed hundreds of people in the US. Antifa? Never.

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You must get paid a lot of rubles to defend people who murdered 20 million of your own countrymen.

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People who identify with Nazis, act like Nazis, defend Nazis, and murder like Nazis are what? Not Nazis?

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Originally posted by reaverfan:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Nazis*

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YOUR characterization

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from out of town bus themselves into Portland

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As if no ANTIFA demonstration ever had protesters bussed in?

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wearing riot gear helmets

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So they don't get a concussion if someone beats them over the head

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and carrying pipes

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Flagpoles

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and guess what?

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I wait breathlessly for your interpretation!

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They do what they went there to do:

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march down their permitted route, and get set on by a bunch of black-masked assholes.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

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No, Antifa never bussed anyone anywhere.

They were more interested in busting heads. Surely a busload of armed thugs tells you that.

Flags made with PVC pipe.

Nazis ONLY care about hurting and killing people they don't like. That's why they've shot, stabbed, and killed hundreds of people in the US. Antifa? Never.

You must get paid a lot of rubles to defend people who murdered 20 million of your own countrymen.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
REAVERFAN:

I'm not saying that all antiTrump protesters are violent assholes. That would be just as stupid as saying that they are all peaceful civil libertarians.

At the same time, not EVERYRBODY who disagrees with you is a Nazi.

C'mon, man, you're too old to be living in fantasy-land.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I heard a show on NPR about civility. One of the participants was talking about how Trump supporters are racist, and that the only way to confront them and "make progress" is to be uncivil. What I heard as a constant subtext was win at all costs. Another participant who is an AIDS activist, who could never agree to participate in the ACT UP confrontations - but who nonetheless understood what they were trying to do - disagreed with the first participant. He kept saying that the current incivility (by liberals) seems to be purposeless.

I think was he was driving at was that the ACT UP confrontations were targeted and had specific goals in mind, whereas the personal incivility advocated by the first participant merely hardened positions and made thing worse.

I agree with him. When someone is driven out of a restaurant, what has that crowd/ mob accomplished? Will that person change their POV? Doubtful.

It's as RF said: no matter HOW civil you are, you will not convince anyone to be vegan. OTOH, the other side of the coin is: No matter how UNcivil you are, you will never convince anyone to give up meat. In fact, you will probably only harden them in their POV.

******

I have, at times, expressed the same thought as participant No 1. I know of several very large, peaceful demonstrations of somewhere in the realm of a million people (the 1976 pre-ERA demonstration in Washington was one such) that made absolutely no difference at all. Sometimes, it seemed to me, that you just gotta pick up some rocks to put pressure on the power structure.

On the other hand, personal incivility is worse than pointless, it's counterproductive. What does the aggressor hope to accomplish, other than getting a "lift" by expressing their own anger? Does it change anyone's POV ... except to the negative? Does it do anything to future encounters other than fuel future violence? When it's just a case of people talking to people, hurling insults may feel good temporarily but it doesn't really create progress, all it creates is division.

Now, I personally believe that we Americans face far larger problems than the ones that we're distracted by, and that being divided amongst ourselves is a fools' game.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
RF, are you just doing everything can to pick a fight? Or do you have a point to make?

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
What part of that reality are you not getting?

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Civility has left the building, and Trump made that call the moment he declared
for the presidency.

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How?

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I might add .... It is now way beyond the point of civility/non-civility Sig.

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We are now in the infancy of a civil war; just like those you read about happening around the globe.

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This is no longer America, it is now AmeriKa.

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I am arming myself and getting ready. I once thought that I might not see it in my lifetime, but Trump has changed all that. He has accelerated the time table and we are now fast approaching crisis mode. Funny thing is I've come across Hispanics that support Trump and believe his lies. Little do they realize that he aims to deport anyone of Latino origin. That coupled with his good squad looking to violently exterminate people of color.

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He is looking to reverse course and attempt to stay the inevitable - the browning of America. He's looking to stave off the Brown Wave coming within the next 25
years. That's why he has pushed for Justice Kennedy to retire in July 2018, so
that he could pick the next Supreme Court judge who will serve for the next 40-45
years. He may pick someone in his mid-30s.

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No, the time for civility has passed. Now is the time to fight fire with fire.

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The time has come to pick up a gun and get ready. Anyone coming up to me to ask
if I'm liberal, is going to get an answer that might not like. I'm not going
to stand there and get a beating. I'm going to defend myself.

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Will the real Americans wake up! The time for talk has passed.

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RF, are you just doing everything can to pick a fight? Or do you have a point to make? - SIGNY

I merely pointed out that you are continuously lying, just like Trump.

Nazis were bussed into Portland. Antifa was not.

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Nazis started the fight

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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RF, are you just doing everything can to pick a fight? Or do you have a point to make? - SIGNY

I merely pointed out that you are continuously lying, just like Trump.

Nazis were bussed into Portland. Antifa was not.

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I never said that ANTIFA was bussed into PORTLAND. You said that ANTIFA "never" bussed anyone in. Well' "never" covers a lot of ground. I was merely pointing out that ANTIFA has been filmed bussing people in, for other demonstrations.

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Nazis started the fight

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That's not what your video indicated, and that's not what the M$M has consistently reported. So, HOW do you figure that Patriot Prayer started the fight? Give me a step-by-step.

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I'd indulge you, but ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876]

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I love how sig the russian troll has "America is an Oligarchy" as her signature. Exactly what a russian troll would do don't you think?

How America works is complicated. People with power and money since the beginning of time have had more access and influence than those who don't. Still, “Rather often, average citizens and affluent citizens (our proxy for economic elites) want the same things from government.” This does get reflected in policy outcomes. Proposals that are supported up and down the income spectrum have a better chance of being enacted than policies that do not have such support. To that extent, democracy is working.

America is a work in progress. England still has a Queen. Two steps forward one step back is how things always work. In time we'll see the world resemble what our founding fathers envisioned, in time.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/is-america-an-oligarchy

T

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I love how sig the russian troll has "America is an Oligarchy" as her signature. Exactly what a russian troll would do don't you think?

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I don't recall anyone saying everything wrong in this country is the republicans fault.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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I don't recall anyone saying everything wrong in this country is the republicans fault.

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Then clearly, you have not been reading SECOND's posts.

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876]

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It's your signature sig therefore it's you making a blanket statement to all who post here dummy. Go back under your rock you witless worm.

T