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Originally posted by captaincrunch:


It sure does - drug addiction is a BEAST. No easy answer.

I know someone who has been addicted to opioids for many years. A tale of great woe and frustration. Once they were hooked you could just see them circling the drain. Everything that was tried only bought them a little more time until that craving took over again. No kind of rehab has worked. No jail time has worked. Getting them jobs and support and they still lie and steal from family to get that high. A lot of people gave up including parents and family. The drug never gives up.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Can't get through a single post without trying to speak "for everyone".

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

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https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marijuana-lethal-dose_n_58f4ec07e4b0b9e
9848d6297

There are no recorded instances of anyone dying from a fatal dose of marijuana alone.

Fatally overdosing on marijuana in its most commonly ingested forms is seemingly impossible. In 1988, a DEA judge argued in favor of rescheduling marijuana in part because of its low harm profile. In his ruling, he wrote that a user would have to ingest somewhere between 20,000 to 40,000 times the amount of THC contained in a single joint to approach lethal toxicity.

“That’s far more than most people will consume throughout their entire lifetime,” said Jahan Marcu, chief science officer at Americans for Safe Access, an organization that advocates for cannabis as medicine.

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https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/04/18/524380027/in-portuga
l-drug-use-is-treated-as-a-medical-issue-not-a-crime
Under the 2001 decriminalization law, authored by Goulão, drug dealers are still sent to prison. But anyone caught with less than a 10-day supply of any drug — including heroin — gets MANDATORY medical treatment. No judge, no courtroom, no jail.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal
The committees have a broad range of sanctions available to them when ruling on the drug use offence. These include:

Fines, ranging from €25 to €150. These figures are based on the Portuguese minimum wage of about €485 (Banco de Portugal, 2001) and translate into hours of work lost.
Suspension of the right to practice if the user has a licensed profession (e.g. medical doctor, taxi driver) and may endanger another person or someone's possessions.
Ban on visiting certain places (e.g. specific clubbing venues).
Ban on associating with specific other persons.
Foreign travel ban.
Requirement to report periodically to the committee.
Withdrawal of the right to carry a gun.
Confiscation of personal possessions.
Cessation of subsidies or allowances that a person receives from a public agency.

If the person is addicted to drugs, they may be admitted to a drug rehabilitation facility or be given community service, if the dissuasion committee finds that this better serves the purpose of keeping the offender out of trouble. The committee cannot mandate compulsory treatment, although its orientation is to induce addicts to enter and remain in treatment. The committee has the explicit power to suspend sanctions conditional upon voluntary entry into treatment. If the offender is not addicted to drugs, or unwilling to submit to treatment or community service, he or she may be given a fine.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

And there you are, speaking for people you don't even know. In fact, you know so little, you don't even know how many.

What do you have to say about a person who does that?

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
That I read an article and think it's sad when people die of allergic reactions???

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

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That I read an article and think it's sad when people die of allergic reactions??

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I'm sure the families of the two people who died would say they counted, but then again, YOU ARE A NARCISSIST so no one else counts in your world.

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It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattle, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the longest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.- SIGNY

I missed how locking people up for petty drug use equals, "we're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted." You'll have to explain that. - CC

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.

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Many folk had heard rumor that the Prison System was designed for the purpose of Punishing miscreants who decided to violate the Laws with the known Punishment of incarceration.
Funny how that sounds like it makes sense. It punishes as it was intended to punish.




So, the giant secret of ending the War on Drugs is to.....STOP ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!
Funny, this sounds much like the Libtard solution of lawlessness - err, actually, it is the same!

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Too bad for you a lot of the things you think should be punishable by prison time are being legalized, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Many folk had heard rumor that the Prison System was designed for the purpose of Punishing miscreants who decided to violate the Laws with the known Punishment of incarceration.
Funny how that sounds like it makes sense. It punishes as it was intended to punish.
So, the giant secret of ending the War on Drugs is to.....STOP ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!
Funny, this sounds much like the Libtard solution of lawlessness - err, actually, it is the same!

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Too bad for you a lot of the things you think should be punishable by prison time are being legalized, huh?
Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Here you have a drastic Logic Fail.
Things that should be punishable with prison are those which are against the law, and the law specifies that prison is the consequence.
If it is a legal activity, it is not against the law, the law does not specify a prison sentence for legal acts.
If an activity is legal, there is no need for prison consequence.
If an activity is prohibited by law, and the lawbreakers know the consequence is prison, then when they commit the illegal act, they can expect to go to prison.

Your demonstration of superior pothead logic has yet again failed. Even if you have not been stoned for years, this still displays troubling long-term detriment to your cerebral functions.

Legal is legal.
Illegal is illegal.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I never said I had all the answers.

I am a firm believer that you should be able to do anything you want to do in a free country as long as you're not harming others or unnecessarily inconveniencing them. Though the non-violent offenders aren't doing the former, they're certainly doing the latter in Seattle.

What I do know is that the US Prison system is slave labor, and corporations make big profits off of it. It's not designed to rehabilitate anybody, and quite the contrary, it turns non-violent people who were just misguided into hardened criminals when they do get out. Most of them end up back inside.

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Many folk had heard rumor that the Prison System was designed for the purpose of Punishing miscreants who decided to violate the Laws with the known Punishment of incarceration.
Funny how that sounds like it makes sense. It punishes as it was intended to punish.




So, the giant secret of ending the War on Drugs is to.....STOP ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!
Funny, this sounds much like the Libtard solution of lawlessness - err, actually, it is the same!

---

Too bad for you a lot of the things you think should be punishable by prison time are being legalized, huh?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Here you have a drastic Logic Fail.
Things that should be punishable with prison are those which are against the law, and the law specifies that prison is the consequence.
If it is a legal activity, it is not against the law, the law does not specify a prison sentence for legal acts.
If an activity is legal, there is no need for prison consequence.
If an activity is prohibited by law, and the lawbreakers know the conserquence is prison, then when they commit the illegal act, they can expect to go to prison.

Your demonstration of superior pothead logic has yet again failed. Even if you have not been stoned for years, this still displays truobling long-term detriment to your cerebral functions.

Legal is legal.
Illegal is illegal.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Kiki and Sig are wasting time with the blah blah over whether or not I'm allowed to assume people miss dead people.


Please, dear Buddha...go get laid... or stoned. Looney toonies.

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It's funny because I saw three videos in a row about the homeless drug=addicted in Seattle, and the people that they interviewed were fed up with the petty crime, trash, feces, needles etc that the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) leave behind. One of the videos, the lpngest one, cites several people who have had dozens - and in one case over a HUNDRED - "encounters" with the SPD for things like petty theft, threatening passersby etc, only to be returned to/left on the street to do the same thing all over again the next hour, day, or week,

It seems to me that while "jail" per se is not a reasonable response, some sort of involuntary treatment is required, and possible "harm reduction" housing. We're so worried about the freedoms of the mentally ill and drug addicted that we forget about the freedom of everyone else to walk the streets and not be harrassed,or to live in their homes and not be buglarized.

*****

Three ecounters with the SPD, and if you haven't grabbed your chance at sobriety and/or treatment, off to the gulag you go! (Just kidding)

There are a lot of people who are drug addicted/alcoholics, mentally incompetent, mentally ill, etc and the difference between them and the people on the street is homelessness. A lot of people do stupid things in the privacy of their own homes and it doesn't raise a ruckus in the larger society because they have the space and the resrouces to do what they do, privately. Homeless people need to be involuntarily "homed".

I employ a formerly homeless man (he was homeless when I first started employing him) and he is neither a drug addict nor mentally ill, altho he has made a series of stupid decisions about jobs in his lifetime which cost him his place. But he DOES tell me about the other homeless people, and in addition to many of them being mentally ill and/or drug addicted, long term homelessness leads to a kind of feral behavior. We have feral people on our streets. They don't WANT to go into a home.

How do you domesticate feral dogs and cats? Well, you give them a home with a lot of encounters with people reinforced by food.

We can talk about the ultimate causes of homelessness (lack of good-paying jobs, real estate bubble which has lifted housing out of reach, unemployment and financial uncertainty which causes people to turn to drugs and drink out of hopelessness and anxiety, lack of treatment options for the mentally ill, too many returning vets with PTSD etc) but the immediate response should be involuntary housing and treatment.

*****
When unemployment and family/personal financial/economic insecurity spike, drug use and alcohilism go thru the roof. You see this in every modern nation that experiences economic turmoil. If you want to reduce drug addiction, people have to have meaningful, secure, good-paying jobs that take up their free time and give them agency over their future.

Our other problem is that we generate a crapton of veterans who come out of the military either with PTSD, or they become economically and socially disoriented in the transition from a situation where their needs, society and goals are provided for them and then dumped into maelstrom of uncertainty and isolation.

In particular, people have been isolated from each other. We may have more virtual contacts than ever before, but way fewer friends and famliy that we can lean on/count on when things go rough, and we feel no obligation to be the one that other can lean on either.

Finally, I think our consumerist society has everyone thinking that life should be fulfilling all the time. There are an awful lot of people who feel entitled to happiness, and don't understand that life DOES present its share of fear, doubt, pain, sadness, discouragement. We should be able to reach out to others for help, advice, or just a non-judgmental ear, but instead we're sniping at each other over the stupidest things.


*****

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Seattle courthouse drowning in waste, but cleaning it up would be… racist?

When two Seattle, Washington judges asked the local authorities to clean up garbage and human waste from the homeless camp outside their courthouse, one council member worried that power-washing the sidewalks might be racist.

The King County courthouse in downtown Seattle is located near the social service centers and several homeless shelters. A tent city has sprung up in the little park outside. There have been several assaults on courthouse employees, and even two attacks on jurors In May and June, leading to citizens summoned for jury duty to voice concerns about their safety.

Judges Laura Inveen and Jim Rogers, backed by King County Sheriff John Urquhart, asked the county to do something about it, the Seattle Times reported last month. Among their requests was a daily power-wash of the sidewalks, which “reek of urine and excrement.”

Council member Larry Gossett, however, objected because power-washing “brought back images of the use of hoses against civil-rights activists,” according to the Times.

Seattle is trying to figure out how to clean poop off their streets but A Democrat Councilman doesn’t like the idea of using a pressure washer hose because it reminds him of hoses used against civil rights activists...

You can’t make this stuff up. Insane. https://t.co/fxqdvmRYa2
— Robby Starbuck (@robbystarbuck) August 27, 2019

High-pressure water hoses were used by police in Birmingham, Alabama against civil rights protesters back in 1963. They have also been used to wash sidewalks in most American cities on a daily basis ever since, without being accused of racism.

But this is 2019, when everything is racist – the New York Times says so – and anyone who doesn’t call it out is assumed to be an enabler, according to the rules of the “woke” cancel culture. So, the sidewalks of Seattle must remain covered in human waste, lest someone get offended.
Also on rt.com Complaints soar as San Francisco drowns in human waste

While it was conservative pundits who brought up this month-old item from the local crime blotter to national attention, calling it a perfect illustration of “peak liberalism,” the notion that garbage and excrement somehow represent social justice ought to be offensive to pretty much everyone.

“Gossett’s concern here is nothing short of insane,” wrote Kat Timpf in National Review. “What else are you going to do — not wash them? Because I really, really reject the idea that leaving sidewalks covered with human bodily waste is the less offensive move in this (or any) situation.”

Timpf was not alone in that sentiment, as legions of social media users had a field day with the councilman’s claim. Would using water hoses to put out fires be racist? Or tying a boat to a dock, since that involves making a noose? Make sure you don’t use brooms, either, because that would be offensive to witches!

“This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard,” one commenter wrote on Twitter. “And they will all wonder how Trump was re-elected,” added another.

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https://www.rt.com/usa/467415-seattle-courthouse-excrement-racist/

I think the original article implies that Seattle has scaled back its war on HOMELESS drug addicts.

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A 2017 peer-reviewed study found that drug users assigned to LEAD were 58 percent less likely to be rearrested, compared with a control group. Participants were also almost twice as likely to have housing as they had been before entering LEAD, and 46 percent more likely to be employed or getting job training...

... outside the courthouse in downtown Seattle where Satterberg has his offices, drug users continue to be homeless and feed their habits.

You’ve got a guy shooting heroin on the street...

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There was never a "war on drugs" in the homes of suburbanites or rich urbanites, who snort, swallow, inject, or smoke whatever they want in the privacy afforded by their four walls. The "war on drugs" has always been about urban poor, and especially about homeless urban poor, who are a very visible problem.

Back to this later,

*****

Seattle's WAR ON DRUGS isn't (wasn't) a "war on drugs" per se. As I have posted already, it was a pretty SELECTIVE war: Like most cities, the SPD didn't raid suburban homes and arrest kids smoking pot, or break down the doors of rich urbanites who were snorting cocaine thru $100 bills. Police departments quite often didn't even break down abandoned houses that served as "shooting galleries". The "war on drugs" was usually focused on poor people and public intoxication. It became a crisis with the crisis of HOMELESSNESS, when people's drug use was suddenly thrust into the public, along with their needles, feces, and threatening behavior.

If Seattle could suddenly find (involuntary) housing for all of the homeless people who're wobbling thru the streets of Seattle, the "war on drugs" would die down pronto. It's not addiction per se, it's the public nuisance that comes along with it. As long as the drug-addicted (and mentally ill) do what they do in private and stop shitting on the streets and harassing passersby and burglarizing homes, I don't think there would be much of a "war on drugs" at all because nobody would really complain about it

To me, there are a couple of things that need to be done short-term, and some long-term things that need to be done.

The first thing is that people who're living on the street must be housed, involuntarily if necessary, and medically detoxed - involuntarily if necessary. I'd start with the ones who are the biggest nuisance. Let them keep their "stuff" ... one of the biggest problems with housing the homeless is their strong attachment to their "stuff". Once they have been housed and detoxed and fed a month of decent meals with enough vitamins to reverse any deficiencies, then they can be evaluated for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, PTSD, drug-induce brain damage or other brain damage, anxiety disorder, autism, low intellectual capacity ... any number of things that can cause a person to self-medicate or not to be able to function in society. Some people can be treated, some people have permanent conditions that can never be "fixed". I would also suggest getting in touch with their closest relatives. I worked with someone who had a schizophrenic niece who was homeless ... they were frantic to keep in touch, and would have helped her if they could, but because if this "free to be crazy on the streets, free to be raped, free to get addicted, free to get AIDS, and free to die" they only saw her when she got pregnant and turned up in some hospital ER somewhere on the west coast, and once she birthed her kid she took off again.

So yeah, that whole ruling about freedom ... it's not working.

LONG TERM, if you really want to reduce drug use ... and I mean private drug addiction like the alcoholism that many families endure, not just the public drug use by the homeless ... you need to fix the economy. Drug addiction, including alcoholism, skyrockets when economies turn sour. People get trapped in situations that they can neither fight nor flee. You also need to fix society- poverty per se doesn't have to be a chaotic freefall for the individual or the family. There are impoverished societies that have banded together* rather than fallen apart ... we've just taken the "falling apart" route because that's what a society based on "competition" becomes ... progressively atomized until people no longer have the minimum number of contacts to remain emotionally or financially healthy.

* BTW, I'm not referencing some mythical ideal socialist society like the Noble People of Cuba; I was thinking of the Tarahumara.

*****

CC, I had a whole post on the sources and possible treatments for addiction, and it went into the ether.

But to recap: Some people are self-medicating for specific undiagnosed neurochemical problems like bipolar disorder, anhedonia, ADHD, depression, anxiety disorder, PTSD, autism, etc. Others were addicted via the medical route. Some people just have a lot more receptors for certain chemicals .. opioid or nicotine receptors etc which gives them an extra-powerful double-whammy addiction.

I believe the treatments should be as unique as the person, who may have more than one thing going on. The standard rehab ... detox and counseling ... may not work for everyone. I have heard of great success with things like ketamine and MDMA and psylocibin which may provide a "reset" not otherwise achievable thru standard treatment. But I think there will continue to be people who are unreachable. More research needs to be done.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

Not jail, but the next thing: involuntary housing and treatment.
Sorting out the permanently incompetent from the ones who can be rehabilited to functioning in today's society.
Reducing the societal drivers of drug addiction, especially joblessness/ underemployment, medically-induced addiction, and social isolation.
Reconnecting the homeless with their families (if they have any)
Teaching resilience to our youngsters so they don't expect life to be a constant beer commercial.
More research on addiction treatment.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

Not jail, but the next thing: involuntary housing and treatment.
Sorting out the permanently incompetent from the ones who can be rehabilited to functioning in today's society.
Reducing the societal drivers of drug addiction, especially joblessness/ underemployment, medically-induced addiction, and social isolation.
Reconnecting the homeless with their families (if they have any)
Teaching resilience to our youngsters so they don't expect life to be a constant beer commercial.
More research on addiction treatment.

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Wow! Thanks-you!

I suspect you think no one has ever tried to "solve the drug problem" or thought of any of ^that before you did?

I'll just add this to that long list of sh*t you don't get.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

Not jail, but the next thing: involuntary housing and treatment.
Sorting out the permanently incompetent from the ones who can be rehabilited to functioning in today's society.
Reducing the societal drivers of drug addiction, especially joblessness/ underemployment, medically-induced addiction, and social isolation.
Reconnecting the homeless with their families (if they have any)
Teaching resilience to our youngsters so they don't expect life to be a constant beer commercial.
More research on addiction treatment.

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Wow! Thanks-you!

I suspect you think no one has ever tried to "solve the drug problem" or thought of any of ^that before you did?

I'll just add this to that long list of sh*t you don't get.

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No, NOBODY has "tried to solve the drug problem" because IT WOULD COST TOO MUCH MONEY. Building houses for the homeless and addicted, hiring top-notch dedicated doctors and medical staff to monitor and supervise treatment and research, and especially remaking the economy - and society - to ensure a meaningful job at sustainable wages for every employable person would require a such complete re-do of our economy that it would throw TPTB out of power. Which, of course, will never be allowed to happen.
Homelessness and drug addiction? It's the underpinning of our economy, man! It's the way we roll.


Just one of the many things YOU don't understand.

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Warmer, but only a bit.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Says CC, who "has the answer" but is so withholding he can't possibly post it.
That's just pathetic CC. But you can always retrieve your reputation by posting YOUR solutions to the drug problem. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you don't.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Says CC, who "has the answer" but is so withholding he can't possibly post it.
That's just pathetic CC. But you can always retrieve your reputation by posting YOUR solutions to the drug problem. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you don't.

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He's just messing with you, there is NO solution.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/3/20750587/rehab-drug-a
ddiction-treatment-sean-blake-opioid-epidemic

You can pour all the money in the world into these people, and it's not enough. It'll never be enough.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Says CC, who "has the answer" but is so withholding he can't possibly post it.
That's just pathetic CC. But you can always retrieve your reputation by posting YOUR solutions to the drug problem. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you don't.

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He's just messing with you, there is NO solution.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/3/20750587/rehab-drug-a
ddiction-treatment-sean-blake-opioid-epidemic

You can pour all the money in the world into these people, and it's not enough. It'll never be enough.

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Actually, there is. Addiction rates vary across countries, and also rise AND FALL thru time within the same country. That means that there are factors which promote, or inhibit, addiction. (Same thing with suicide and obesity, which are other responses to stress.)

I know for a fact that addiction is linked to economic distress and existential uncertainty about the future. You can see this in every nation that undergoes an economic collapse: addiction rates skyrocket.

Russia in literally drinking itself to death
https://qz.com/403307/russia-is-quite-literally-drinking-itself-to-dea
th/

The disease killing white Americans goes way deeper than opioids
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/24/the-disease-kil
ling-white-americans-goes-way-deeper-than-opioids/

You see this even in lab rats: If you cage them in a stressful situation which they can neither control nor flee ... such as random electric shocks that they can't avoid ... and then provide them with the option to drink, they'll drink.

Tobacco use has gone way down - another addiction that has been reversed. (Altho with vaping, the tobacco companies are hoping to hook another generation.)

Some ethnicities also experience little addiction. https://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html

So there are societal factors which drive addiction. If we can manage those societal factors we can reduce the number of new addicts. Treatment is another story. It is difficult and a lifelong effort. It's like losing weight ... many attempts, a few successes, many relapses, but you keep on trying.

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Says CC, who "has the answer" but is so withholding he can't possibly post it.
That's just pathetic CC. But you can always retrieve your reputation by posting YOUR solutions to the drug problem. I'd bet dollars to donuts that you don't.- SIGNY

He's just messing with you, there is NO solution.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/3/20750587/rehab-drug-a
ddiction-treatment-sean-blake-opioid-epidemic
You can pour all the money in the world into these people, and it's not enough. It'll never be enough. WISHY

Actually, there is. Addiction rates vary across countries, and also rise AND FALL thru time within the same country. That means that there are factors which promote, or inhibit, addiction. (Same thing with suicide and obesity, which are other responses to stress.)

I know for a fact that addiction is linked to economic distress and existential uncertainty about the future. You can see this in every nation that undergoes an economic collapse: addiction rates skyrocket.

Russia in literally drinking itself to death [This was during the collpase of the Soviet Union 1990-2000]
https://qz.com/403307/russia-is-quite-literally-drinking-itself-to-dea
th/

The disease killing white Americans goes way deeper than opioids
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/03/24/the-disease-kil
ling-white-americans-goes-way-deeper-than-opioids/

You see this even in lab rats: If you cage them in a stressful situation which they can neither control nor flee ... such as random electric shocks that they can't avoid ... and then provide them with the option to drink, they'll drink.

Tobacco use has gone way down - another addiction that has been reversed. (Altho with vaping, the tobacco companies are hoping to hook another generation.)

Some ethnicities also experience little addiction. https://www.peele.net/lib/sociocul.html

So there are societal factors which drive addiction. If we can manage those societal factors we can reduce the number of new addicts. Treatment is another story. It is difficult and a lifelong effort. It's like losing weight ... many attempts, a few successes, many relapses, but you keep on trying.- SIGNY

Naw - Wish was right. There is no solution, there's just "better." That's what it looks like Seattle has done - so cheers to them for that. Thinking perfection is attainable just signifies a lack of understanding.- CC

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
STINKY: "Who the fuck was talking about "perfection"?

You were. STINKY: "So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

All wrapped up for us in a few sentences - Seattle's drug problem, er, our Nation's drug problems... let's face it, STINKY solved the WORLD's drug use in a couple nice, tidy sentences. *clapping*

STINKY: "As usual, you lie about what I post, so fuck off."
As usual you lied about what I said, "having the answer" so double f*ck off.

STINKY: "BTW I win my bet."
Here's you prize: a Humiilty Pill the size of a grapefruit. It's a suppository.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:
STINKY: "Who the fuck was talking about "perfection"?

You were. STINKY: "So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

All wrapped up for us in a few sentences - Seattle's drug problem, er, our Nation's drug problems... let's face it, STINKY solved the WORLD's drug use in a couple nice, tidy sentences. *clapping*

STINKY: "As usual, you lie about what I post, so fuck off."
As usual you lied about what I said, "having the answer" so double f*ck off.

STINKY: "BTW I win my bet."
Here's you prize: a Humiilty Pill the size of a grapefruit. It's a suppository.

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You're going to pin your reply on ONE WORD taken out of context, when everything I posted made it clear that I was proposing solutions that relied on trends, and were only partial? Hence, the MORE RESEARCH?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're just butt-hurt that I don't like Seattle's "solution" which relies on wheedling people off the street, leaving the craziest and sickest to harrass and threaten everyone else. But that's your consumerist "whatever floats your boat" mentality shining thru: "choice"" is your god.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, if I had a drug addicted homeless relative ... especially one who was suffering from brain damage or neurochemical disorder ... I would pray to any god that the society would take them in and kindly find a quiet safe place for them to stay instead of allowing her or him the circle the drain for years.

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STINKY: "Who the fuck was talking about "perfection"?

You were. STINKY: "So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

All wrapped up for us in a few sentences - Seattle's drug problem, er, our Nation's drug problems... let's face it, STINKY solved the WORLD's drug use in a couple nice, tidy sentences. *clapping* - CC

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SIGNY: You're going to pin your reply on ONE WORD taken out of context, when everything I posted made it clear that I was proposing solutions that relied on trends, and were only partial? Hence, the MORE RESEARCH?

CC: You trade on and off with JSF as the dumbest poster on this forum - congrats?
I'm actually pinning it on your complete lack of understanding on how humans and this world work. You think if you type a great idea it's never been tried or no one has ever thought of it. It might actually be something that was tried 30 "solutions" ago and failed,

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that there actually might be reasons your "perfect

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solution" is perfect

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horse shit.

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You even come close, right up to the edge of understanding, "costs too much!" but then you slip into self whoreship.
Just can't help yourself.

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SIGNY: You're just butt-hurt that I don't like Seattle's "solution" which relies on wheedling people off the street, leaving the craziest and sickest to harrass and threaten everyone else. But that's your consumerist "whatever floats your boat" mentality shining thru: "choice"" is your god.

CC: Wow, a giant dump truck of lying Bullsh*t from you today - thanks. If you had any kind of memory and were even 50% honest, you'd know I am anti-consumer

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and am constantly trying to school you and KOOKY that Consumers never think they are part of the problem.

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There are reasons you can't just scoop people up off the street even with the greatest of intentions. Just like you can't strap old people into their wheel chairs or their beds at night to prevent them from falling out and hurting themselves. I's a LAW, and not by dice roll or ouija board. Sometimes there's just no sensible solution, and even worse, sometimes a bad idea is the best idea.

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SIGNYM:
Yanno, if I had a drug addicted homeless relative ... especially one who was suffering from brain damage or neurochemical disorder ... I would pray to any god that the society would take them in and kindly find a quiet safe place for them to stay instead of allowing her or him the circle the drain for years.

CC: Alex, I'll take If The Queen Had Balls for $1000.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Tobacco use has gone way down - another addiction that has been reversed. (Altho with vaping, the tobacco companies are hoping to hook another generation.)

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Tobacco use has gone way down - another addiction that has been reversed. (Altho with vaping, the tobacco companies are hoping to hook another generation.)

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WRONG AGAIN.

Progress Erased: Youth Tobacco Use Increased During 2017-2018. About 4.9 million middle and high school students were current users (used in the past 30 days) of some type of tobacco product in 2018, up from 3.6 million in 2017

I don't know about the rest of the country but Indiana is smoking it up, I was talking to a couple nurses about that the other day. We agreed tobacco use is everywhere here again...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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STINKY: "Who the fuck was talking about "perfection"?

You were. STINKY: "So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)

All wrapped up for us in a few sentences - Seattle's drug problem, er, our Nation's drug problems... let's face it, STINKY solved the WORLD's drug use in a couple nice, tidy sentences. *clapping* - CC

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Bullshit, you steaming stinky turd, you.
I posted about "societal factors" and "rates of addiction" and "preventing new addictions" and "more research". But, keep grasping at those straws, CC!

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SIGNY: You're going to pin your reply on ONE WORD taken out of context, when everything I posted made it clear that I was proposing solutions that relied on trends, and were only partial? Hence, the MORE RESEARCH?

CC: You trade on and off with JSF as the dumbest poster on this forum - congrats?
I'm actually pinning it on your complete lack of understanding on how humans and this world work. You think if you type a great idea it's never been tried or no one has ever thought of it. It might actually be something that was tried 30 "solutions" ago and failed,

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Hmmm.. "might have been"? You wouldn't know? You never looked it up?

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that there actually might be reasons your "perfect

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Son, I never said it was "perfect", in quotes already! As If I posted that word! I've told you a few times already that I never claimed it was "perfect". If you're not LYING, you're extremely dense.

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solution" is perfect

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God, what is it with you and LYING? You just can't stop yourself, can you?

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horse shit.

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Speaking of horseshit ...

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You even come close, right up to the edge of understanding, "costs too much!" but then you slip into self whoreship.
Just can't help yourself.

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Well, I know how to have an intelligent discussion, but YOU sure don't!

Let's start with the "involuntary treatment". Does it work? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. 34 states have "involuntary treatment" laws. The problem is that the treatment aren't often guided by data and can involve anything from MDMA to hippotherapy. The mandated treatments aren't very long. I most cases, there is no support afterwards. They often treat the addiction, but not any underlying problems (schizophrenia, depression, PTSD, bipolar disorder, anhedonia, anxiety disorder, organic brain damage etc) that may have led to self-medicating in the first place.

I think if we were to think about a more successfu model, it would not only inolve longer treatment periods anmore than detox and "talk therapy" (incredibly ineffective), but also moving the person away - with support- for a year or so from their old associations and old haunts.

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SIGNY: You're just butt-hurt that I don't like Seattle's "solution" which relies on wheedling people off the street, leaving the craziest and sickest to harrass and threaten everyone else. But that's your consumerist "whatever floats your boat" mentality shining thru: "choice"" is your god.

CC: Wow, a giant dump truck of lying Bullsh*t from you today - thanks. If you had any kind of memory and were even 50% honest, you'd know I am anti-consumer

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Nope! You're 100% proconsumer. You're biggest concern about the trade war was that it would cost the American "consumer". You think manufacturing (work) should be a thing of the past. You're all about social media and pointlessly fucking around on a smart phone: The utimate non-productive consumerist experience.

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and am constantly trying to school you and KOOKY that Consumers never think they are part of the problem.

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Well, that seems to describe you pretty well! In the real world, there is production and consumption. Do you produce as much as you consume?

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There are reasons you can't just scoop people up off the street even with the greatest of intentions. Just like you can't strap old people into their wheel chairs or their beds at night to prevent them from falling out and hurting themselves. I's a LAW, and not by dice roll or ouija board. Sometimes there's just no sensible solution, and even worse, sometimes a bad idea is the best idea.

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Wow, gee. When I first mentioned the problem with "freedom" you acted like What the fuck does that have to do with anything I referred to the ruling myself, more than once, as "not working". KIKI had to cite the ruling for you! NOW, suddenly, you're an expert on "the law" which you knew nothing about two days ago?

Look up "involuntary treatment", son, and "conservatorship".

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SIGNYM:
Yanno, if I had a drug addicted homeless relative ... especially one who was suffering from brain damage or neurochemical disorder ... I would pray to any god that the society would take them in and kindly find a quiet safe place for them to stay instead of allowing her or him the circle the drain for years.

CC: Alex, I'll take If The Queen Had Balls for $1000.

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An that's what you reort to when you have nothing REAL to say.

This must be personal for you. I suspect that someone close to you was addicted, and her/his relatives (including you) emotionally and financially followed him/her down the rabbit hole at an ever-receding distance until s/he dove headlong into death. I suspect that considerable amount of money was fecklessly spent on rehab. I suspect that you would like to see addicts treated with kid gloves, like YOU would like to be treated with kid gloves.

Son, I'm no stranger to stories of addiction, dysfunction, brain damage, and homelessness. There was one serious alcoholic in my immediate family, and one who suffered from PTSD and then the depression that comes in the first stages of Parkinson's. We have a brain-damaged daughter. We tried over a dozen therapies for our daughter until we found one that worked. "Tolerance" doesn't get you to a solution, it just rewards the problem. Spare me your pious "holier than thou" crap.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
LINKS PLEASE And, if this has to do with vaping ... well, I already mentioned it.

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:


I suspect... your husband works a lot of long hours. I suspect you make up at least 50% of what you post.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:


I suspect... your husband works a lot of long hours. I suspect you make up at least 50% of what you post.

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You bring up a good point....How often do I talk about my hubbs, and how often does she talk about hers?? Her daughter might exist, but I fully doubt she has EVER had another adult live with that insanity.

Is this a Colombo type spouse, or what???

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No I didn't. But I know you'll keep clutching to that ONE WORD so you can ignore EVERYTHING ELSE I posted.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM: I proposed a series of actions aimed at reducing homelessness and addiction, starting with the most disruptive homeless. BTW The reason why I start there is because there are a lot of homeless people who're just that: Homeless. Homeless because of lost work, insane rent, illness/bankruptcy etc but quite often otherwise functional. It's the crazy ones who make living on the street a hellhole and cause problems for everyone else.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BTW, my husband was at one time homeless because of a falling-out with his old man who was an abusive a-hole. But this was in the exurbs, so he lived in an abandoned barn while he worked as a mechanic, so he could save up for rent.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Nope! You're 100% proconsumer. You're biggest concern about the trade war was that it would cost the American "consumer". You think manufacturing (work) should be a thing of the past. You're all about social media and pointlessly fucking around on a smart phone: The utimate non-productive consumerist experience.

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SIGNY: No I didn't. But I know you'll keep clutching to that ONE WORD so you can ignore EVERYTHING ELSE I posted.
"So there you have it, my solution for drug use (starting first with those who're the most threatening of the homeless)"

CC: Actually, A BUNCH OF WORDS, your words.

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SIGNYM: I proposed a series of actions aimed at reducing homelessness and addiction, starting with the most disruptive homeless. BTW The reason why I start there is because there are a lot of homeless people who're just that: Homeless. Homeless because of lost work, insane rent, illness/bankruptcy etc but quite often otherwise functional. It's the crazy ones who make living on the street a hellhole and cause problems for everyone else.

CC: And I followed with, "like no one else has ever thought of those things?" Trying to point out that just because you think of something doesn't mean no else has. Had you thought of what Seattle did do to reduce the problem? I bet not.

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SIGNY: BTW, my husband was at one time homeless because of a falling-out with his old man who was an abusive a-hole. But this was in the exurbs, so he lived in an abandoned barn while he worked as a mechanic, so he could save up for rent.

CC: How convenient lol. That doesn't sound made up at all.... Seriously, what's your pen name? I bet you've written some decent novels.

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CC: And talk about stupid or lying - you have to try to be this stupid:

SNope! You're 100% proconsumer. You're biggest concern about the trade war was that it would cost the American "consumer". You think manufacturing (work) should be a thing of the past. You're all about social media and pointlessly fucking around on a smart phone: The utimate non-productive consumerist experience.

You say completely made up stuff like that and then say you want to have "intelligent discussion?"

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I post about hubby because we share a full and interesting life, unlike you, WISHY, who only seems to post about her sex life.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I couldn't tell you one single thing about your husband. Doubt anyone but Kiki could.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
I couldn't tell you one single thing about your husband. Doubt anyone but Kiki could.

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And not only that, you couldn't tell me a single thing about MY family, because I respect their privacy.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Not exactly sure I'm catching what you're throwing with the meat shield-y-ness thing...

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Originally posted by captaincrunch:

Here's your prize: a Humility Pill the size of a grapefruit. It's a suppository.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well, this WAS an interesting conversation till CREALMUSH and WHIZZY turned it into a troll fest.

No wonder this place is dead. It died the death of a thousand cuts.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Kiki and Sig are wasting time with the blah blah over whether or not I'm allowed to assume people miss dead people.
Please, dear Buddha...go get laid... or stoned. Looney toonies.

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Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Google incompetent as well as mentally incompetent. Not surprising.

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