Trump is not a sociopath or a narcissist, he has ADHD. Get over it. by SIGNYM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

He describes the classic symptoms of ADHD.

Trying to spin it so it looks like Chump has just a wee little problem focusing huh???

ADHD is rarely a stand-alone diagnosis. It's just the most easily identified symptom. Most people get identified for their ADHD behavior and later get diagnosed with something else. There are a couple dozen disorders that list ADHD behaviors under their umbrellas.

His actions... his pathological lying, grandstanding, attention whoring, ect... are a physical representation that his brain is not capable of wholly logical function.

Even if it were true that he has an "ADHD co-morbid disorder", wouldn't you WANT a leader that has most of his Prefrontal Cortex ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING????????????? That's where a lot of memory, planning, higher emotional function and DECISION MAKING takes place. It's also what's messed up in people with ADHD.

I happen to think DECISION MAKING skills are important in a president, don't YOU??

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Monday, October 14, 2019 8:47 AM

It's hilarious watching you constantly project all of your problems on other people and then bitch about them.

You need your meds switched.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 14, 2019 8:53 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECONDRATE linked an article to Tump's ghostwriter, who describes what it was like working with Trump and observing him in action.

He describes the classic symptoms of ADHD.

Signym, funny about how the White House physician is NOT treating Trump for ADHD. None of these medications are mentioned on Trump's medical report: www.healthline.com/health/adhd/treatment-overview#medications
www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2019/02/09/president-trumps-annual-physi
cal-exam-what-was-interesting-about-the-statement/

But Signym, Trump Is Not Well.

Donald Trump’s disordered personality — his unhealthy patterns of thinking, functioning, and behaving — has become the defining characteristic of his presidency. It manifests itself in multiple ways: his extreme narcissism; his addiction to lying about things large and small, including his finances and bullying and silencing those who could expose them; his detachment from reality, including denying things he said even when there is video evidence to the contrary; his affinity for conspiracy theories; his demand for total loyalty from others while showing none to others; and his self-aggrandizement and petty cheating.

It manifests itself in Trump’s impulsiveness and vindictiveness; his craving for adulation; his misogyny, predatory sexual behavior, and sexualization of his daughters; his open admiration for brutal dictators; his remorselessness; and his lack of empathy and sympathy, including attacking a family whose son died while fighting for this country, mocking a reporter with a disability, and ridiculing a former POW. (When asked about Trump’s feelings for his fellow human beings, Trump’s mentor, the notorious lawyer Roy Cohn, reportedly said, “He pisses ice water.”)

The most recent example is the president’s bizarre fixation on falsely insisting that he was correct to warn that Alabama faced a major risk from Hurricane Dorian, to the point that he doctored a hurricane map with a black Sharpie to include the state as being in the path of the storm.

“He’s deteriorating in plain sight,” one Republican strategist who is in frequent contact with the White House told Business Insider on Friday. Asked why the president was obsessed with Alabama instead of the states that would actually be affected by the storm, the strategist said, “You should ask a psychiatrist about that; I’m not sure I’m qualified to comment.”

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/donald-trump-not-well/597640/

Signym, a large number of psychiatrists have commented on Trump. ADHD is NOT their diagnosis.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 14, 2019 9:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

In another thread http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=63177&p=14 SECONDRATE nkaes the claim that Trump is a "sociopath" and linked to an interview of the ghoswriter of The Art of the Deal https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwrite
r-tells-all

In that interview, this is what he said about Trump

Quote:
Trump only takes two positions. Either you’re a scummy loser, liar, whatever, or you’re the greatest.

He told Trump that if he would give him half the advance and half the book’s royalties he’d take the job.

The terms, which the article describes as "unusually generous for a ghostwriter", don't sound like those of a sociopath

Quote:
He asked Trump to describe his childhood in detail. After sitting for only a few minutes in his suit and tie, Trump became impatient and irritable. He looked fidgety, Schwartz recalls, “like a kindergartner who can’t sit still in a classroom.”

“It’s implicit in a lot of what people write, but it’s never explicit—or at least, I haven’t seen it. And that is that it’s impossible to keep him focussed on any topic, other than his own self-aggrandizement, for more than a few minutes, and even then . . . ” Schwartz trailed off, shaking his head in amazement. He regards Trump’s inability to concentrate as alarming in a Presidential candidate. “If he had to be briefed on a crisis in the Situation Room, it’s impossible to imagine him paying attention over a long period of time,” he said.

Trump’s short attention span has left him with “a stunning level of superficial knowledge and plain ignorance.” He said, “That’s why he so prefers TV as his first news source—information comes in easily digestible sound bites.” He added, “I seriously doubt that Trump has ever read a book straight through in his adult life.”

There was not a single call that Trump deemed too private for Schwartz to hear. “He loved the attention,” Schwartz recalls. “If he could have had three hundred thousand people listening in, he would have been even happier.”

Trump seemed driven entirely by a need for public attention.

“He lied strategically. He had a complete lack of conscience about it.” Since most people are “constrained by the truth,” Trump’s indifference to it “gave him a strange advantage.”

insatiable hunger for “money, praise, and celebrity.”

“He’d like people when they were helpful, and turn on them when they weren’t. It wasn’t personal. He’s a transactional man—it was all about what you could do for him.”

If yo read the article you will also see that Trump lives in a buzz-saw of activity ... barely off the phone with one call and other calls waiting.

A "sociopath" doesn't need praise, doesn't have short attention span, and doesn't prefer to live in chaos. Some people here have claimed over and over that Trump is a "narcissist" and a "sociopath" but my opinion ... which I posted already... is that Trump has a bad case of adult ADHD. This article pretty much pegs it for me. He's obviously had it all of his life. That's prolly why he doesn't do drugs.

Quote:
You've never dealt with a kid with ADHD, have you? It's a whirlwind of constant activity and Look at me! Look at me! and motor-mouthing [tweeting]. It's almost as if they can't pay attention to something unless someone is paying attention to THEM paying atention to something. They love being in chaotic situations because all of the shiny bits of events are very attention-grabbing.

If I had to peg Trump with something, that would be it.

Unlike Hillary, who's just a creepy hag who loves killing people and who sold her soul for power.

TWITCHY, I think I know at least as much about ADHD as you. There are other things that can go along with it, most especially ODD ... but sociopathy isn't one of them, and neither is narcissism. If Trump was a sociopath or a narcissist he couldn't be so easily manipulated by pictures (fake pix btw) of dead ducks and sick children.

I think the deep state has Trump pegged, and they're manipulating his need for positive attention by "leaking" an unending string of false accusations to the enmeshed M$M, and by feeding him false information (which he doesn't have the patience to sift thru). How would YOU describe that behavior? Treason?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, and TWITCHY, to address your post specificaly ...

Quote:
Trying to spin it so it just looks like Chump has just a wee little problem focusing huh???

ADHD is rarely a stand-alone diagnosis. It's just the most easily identified symptom. Most people get identified for their ADHD behavior and later get diagnosed with something else. There are a couple dozen disorders that list ADHD behaviors under their umbrellas.

LINKS, or it hasnt happened.

Quote:
His actions... his pathological lying, grandstanding, attention whoring, ect... are a physical representation that his brain is not capable of wholly logical function.

No. YOUR posts indicate that YOUR brain isn't capable of logical function because you just made a logical boo boo. HIS actions indicate that his brain isn't capable of sustained focus. Two different things.

Quote:
Even if it were true that he has an "ADHD co-morbid disorder", wouldn't you WANT a leader that has most of his Prefrontal Cortex ACTUALLY FUNCTIONING????????????? That's where a lot of memory, planning, higher emotional function and DECISION MAKING takes place. It's also what's messed up in people with ADHD.

I happen to think DECISION MAKING skills are important in a president, don't YOU??

First of all, it's not his "decision making" skills that are at issue, it's his lack of focus.

But which do you prefer? A person (like Obama or Hillary) who, while in full control of their focus and logic make entirely corrupt unethical decisions selling us downriver? Or someone who, while scattered, tries to do what's best for America? I don't know about you, but I prefer someone with a higher level of patriotism. Yanno, someone who isn't selling us to the transnationals so they can squeeze just a little more pulp out of us.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:19 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

But which do you prefer? A person (like Obama and Hillary) who, while in full control of their focus make entirely corrupt unethical decisions while selling us downriver? Or someone who, while scattered, tries to do what's best for America? I don't know about you, but I prefer someone with a higher level of patriotism. Yanno, soone who isn't selling us to the transnationals so they can squeeze just a little more pulp out of us.

Signym, you are out-of-your-tiny mind if you believe Trump is ethical, patriotic, and won't sell out for money. He has cheated and stolen all his life. See the lawsuits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_affairs_of_Donald_Trump

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's hilarious watching you constantly project all of your problems on other people and then bitch about them.

It's HILARIOUS watching you post just to post when you have no information to convey.

Oh, wait... I mean that it's pathetic, shallow, and stupid.

I actually have things to go do today... Maybe if you were to go get actual meds you could have the balls to leave the house and get a life, too!

Have an agoraphobic day

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:47 AM

Despite the bullshit of the Legacy Media and Democrat obstruction, Trump's done more for the country than any president in my lifetime.

I'm cool with Trump. He's the only one so far that I'm still glad I voted for.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Or someone who, while scattered, tries to do what's best for America? I don't know about you, but I prefer someone with a higher level of patriotism. Yanno, someone who isn't selling us to the transnationals so they can squeeze just a little more pulp out of us.

SCATTERED??

I've seen patients with dementia more in touch with reality that your assessment of Chump is

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The one thing I see Trump doing, which no recent President has even attempted, is make good on his campaign promises.

I find it enlightening to notice that this whole "Ukraine-gate" hoax was ramped up right after it was clear that Trump would not go to war with Iran, even after the attack on Saudi oil processing. The deep state was pushing very very hard for war, just like they're pushing very very hard for war against Turkey.

Haven't you figured out by now that the deep state is a bunch of traitors who're devoted t something other than America, and Congress is mostly a bunch of corrupt quislings? The fact that they've campaigned and plotted against Trump as hard as they have ... well, you can tell something about a person by their enemies. As long as the deep state is attempting to depose Trump by every slimy means at their disposal, I guess Trump must be doing something good.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I'm cool with Trump. He's the only one so far that I'm still glad I voted for.

That's because he acts just like YOU, Narcissia. Neither one of you could find your way out of a brown paper bag. So glad you don't breed.

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Monday, October 14, 2019 10:58 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Despite the bullshit of the Legacy Media and Democrat obstruction, Trump's done more for the country than any president in my lifetime.

I'm cool with Trump. He's the only one so far that I'm still glad I voted for.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Give us a list of Trump's achievements with numbers attached. And please don't confuse achievements I have done, and people similar to me, to what Trump did. For example, Trump can take no credit for unemployment, unless you can point to people the Federal government hired. Be sure to include this on your list:

Trump Promised to Eliminate the Deficit in 8 Years. So Far, He Has Increased it by 68%

During the 2016 campaign, President Donald Trump made an aggressive promise on federal finances: He would eliminate the budget deficit within eight years. Now, three years into his presidency, the deficit is 68 percent higher than when he started.

More at www.newsweek.com/trump-deficit-debt-cbo-data-obama-1463802

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 14, 2019 11:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is a thread all about this, an attempt to separate Trump's ACTIONS from his tweets, remember? It's called "Trump: The good, bad, ugly"

TRUMP has pulled us out of extremey destructive "free trade" deals. I've got to give him credit for that.

And despite EXTREME provocation from the deep state ... their engineered false flags, anti-Trump hoaxes propagated thru the ever-compliant M$M, and false intel tht they fed Trup ... he has not gotten us into YET ANOTHER war.

And he's changed the conversation about illegal immigration, making it the issue that it should be.

If you want to continue this coversation, how about meeting me there? I'd sure hate to re=post everything that's already been discussed.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=61325&p=2

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There is a thread all about this, an attempt to separate Trump's ACTIONS from his tweets, remember? It's called "Trump: The good, bad, ugly"

TRUMP has pulled us out of extremey destructive "free trade" deals. I've got to give him credit for that.

And despite EXTREME provocation from the deep state ... their engineered false flags, anti-Trump hoaxes propagated thru the ever-compliant M$M, and false intel tht they fed Trup ... he has not gotten us into YET ANOTHER war.

And he's changed the conversation about illegal immigration, making it the issue that it should be.

If you want to continue this coversation, how about meeting me there? I'd sure hate to re=post everything that's already been discussed.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

This.

I have no desire to re-hash all of this from the beginning with you Second when all you're going to do is quote me and go completely off topic with every inane post of yours.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, October 14, 2019 11:23 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There is a thread all about this, an attempt to separate Trump's ACTIONS from his tweets, remember? It's called "Trump: The good, bad, ugly"

1) TRUMP has pulled us out of extremey destructive "free trade" deals. I've got to give him credit for that.

2) And despite EXTREME provocation from the deep state ... their engineered false flags, anti-Trump hoaxes propagated thru the ever-compliant M$M, and false intel tht they fed Trup ... he has not gotten us into YET ANOTHER war.

3) And he's changed the conversation about illegal immigration, making it the issue that it should be.

1) Which factories did Trump move from China to America? None. Is the trade deficit with foreign countries lower under Trump? No, it is higher.

2) Trump threw away the treaty with Iran. How is that going? How is disarming North Korea going? Wasn't Trump planning on receiving a Nobel Peace Prize for that? And the Pentagon's budget is higher every year under Trump. And Trump is building more H-bombs and missiles. He can do that because he threw away a treaty covering missiles. Great job "protecting" America Trump is doing.

3) Conversation? How many fewer illegal aliens are living in America? Sorry, but the number stayed the same under Trump. So what did Trump do? He stopped counting how many in 2017. What happened to those massive raids to remove illegal aliens working in America? Nothing happened is what happened. When he has 20 million to deport and he only deports dozens per month, I think Trump has a mental problem with arithmetic. He is not right in the head, at least about the math of deporting aliens. Can't blame that on Trump's ADHD.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 14, 2019 11:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

That he has made missteps on some things does not take away from his accomplishments, which are important. He is building the wall and securing our border despite heavy opposition from Congress and has put pressure on Mexico, and those NECESSARY steps to reducing the number of illegal aliens here in the USA, otherwise its like bailing a leaky boat without fixing the leak.

I disagree with Trump on HOW he wants to accomplish what he wants to accomplish. I have posted, even as he was campaigning...

That he has a grotch against Iran which will run afoul of his "make nice with Russia" plan.

That turning our economy around is a decades=long project which will take more than repatriating capital (with tax cuts) and tariffing imports. Because in order to re-introduce manufacturing, Trump would need to be able to direct investment into specific projects, and he simply doesn't have that authority. (Putin and Xi, do, tho.)

I agree with him on the ACA: It is an abomination that shoves people and tax money into the maw of the health-industrial complex. I disagree on how to fix it.

I simply disagree with him on climate and the environment.

However, I do not doubt that Trump has the USA's interests at heart as best he sees them, and his sensitivity to negative publicity makes him responsive to public opinion.

Unlike Bush, Bill, GWB (Cheney), Obama, and Shillery who paid more attention to the health and welfare of the military-spook-industrial complex, banks, big pharma and big tech, andwho lied their way thru their entire campaigns and terms in office, and who worked hand-in-glove with the CIA to lie to the public, forward the interets of transnational capital, and destroy our Constitutional protections.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 12:52 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That he has made missteps on some things does not take away from his accomplishments, which are important. He is building the wall and securing our border despite heavy opposition from Congress and has put pressure on Mexico, and those NECESSARY steps to reducing the number of illegal aliens here in the USA, otherwise its like bailing a leaky boat without fixing the leak.

Trump had a $25 billion deal to build a wall in exchange for DACA kids staying. Well, the DACA kids are still here, but Trump threw away the $25 billion because he did not want to say out loud, since stupid people like Signym would be upset, that the DACA kids could stay. And Trump has built exactly 0 miles of new wall. Note the word "new". And he replaced old walls (note the word "old") by cheating the military housing building fund out of money. Oh, there's gonna be trouble over that cheating with Congress.

"How Trump Let His Goal of Building a Border Wall Slip Away"
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-13/how-trump-let-his-goal-of-b
uilding-a-border-wall-slip-away

Signym, you and Trump are the same: you talk too much and understand too little.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Monday, October 14, 2019 1:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Let me put this to you oppositely, SECONDRATE

WHO would oppose securing our borders, and just as importantly ... why?

WHO would push for MOAR WAR and, just as importantly ... why?

WHO would oppose spending on infrastructure, and ... why?

I think Congress had amply demonstrated that it does not have America's interests at heart because it opposes policies that are directly beneficial to America.

Trump's implementation leaves much to be desired .... I think I already said that ... but his motives are in the right place. A lot more than deep-state complicit establishment politicians.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Monday, October 14, 2019 5:28 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

The fact that Trump is VERY visibly trying VERY hard to keep his campaign promises might be why his approval ratings are so steady (with CNBC being the outlier), despite the non-stop Deep State soft-coup attempt.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-14/donald-trump-s-a
pproval-rating-is-holding-up-but-why

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_app
roval-6179.html

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-dona
ld-trump.aspx

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/trumps-approval-rating-drops-to-new-lo
w-but-most-still-oppose-impeachment-cnbc-survey-finds.html

The insane never-Trumpers will be driven even more insane in the wash/rinse/spin/repeat/ cycle they mistake for reality.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 12:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
The fact that Trump is VERY visibly trying VERY hard to keep his campaign promises might be why his approval ratings are so steady (with CNBC being the outlier), despite the non-stop Deep State soft-coup attempt.

BWAHHH HAAAAA HAAAAAA HAAA!

Funniest piece of propaganda I've seen this week. How drunk do you need to be to type that in??

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 12:57 AM

What are you laughing at?

His approval rating has held steady and is higher than Obama's was at this point.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 12:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

ADHD is rarely a stand-alone diagnosis. It's just the most easily identified symptom. Most people get identified for their ADHD behavior and later get diagnosed with something else. There are a couple dozen disorders that list ADHD behaviors under their umbrellas.

LINKS, or it hasnt happened.

I hope your quaint little village gets access to a search engine some time this century. *sigh

Roughly 80 percent of those with ADHD are diagnosed with at least one other psychiatric disorder sometime during their life. The most common ADHD comorbidities are learning disabilities, anxiety, depression, sensory processing disorder, and oppositional defiant disorder.

https://www.additudemag.com/category/adhd-add/related-conditions/

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 1:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What are you laughing at?

His approval rating has held steady and is higher than Obama's was at this point.

I'm just sure his approval rating is YUGE ...with Rethugs!

But then, most of them thought they were being polled about whether or not it should be legal to date yer sister

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 1:10 AM

Yup.

It's YUGE with just as many people as was needed to get elected in the first place.

Have fun with Trump until 2024.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 7:07 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
What are you laughing at?

His approval rating has held steady and is higher than Obama's was at this point.

I'm just sure his approval rating is YUGE ...with Rethugs!

But then, most of them thought they were being polled about whether or not it should be legal to date yer sister

His approval ratings are very yuge with the companies who make our voting machines, as well as their current owners, Russia.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 7:08 AM

CAPTAINCRUNCH

... stay crunchy...

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup.

It's YUGE with just as many people as was needed to get elected in the first place.

Have fun with Trump until 2024.

That's if he makes it to 2020. I would have said impeachment was mostly dead in the water, but baby man keeps stepping in it.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 7:38 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let me put this to you oppositely, SECONDRATE

. . .

Trump's implementation leaves much to be desired .... I think I already said that ... but his motives are in the right place. A lot more than deep-state complicit establishment politicians.

Let me put this to you directly, Signym.

Trump made 6 promises about health care:

‘health insurance for everybody’
‘no cuts … to medicaid’
‘no one will lose coverage’
‘nobody will be worse off financially’
‘get rid of artificial lines’
‘everybody’s going to be taken care of’

Oh, there were claims that Trump’s legislation would keep the promises, but what Trump actually did was attempt to repeal Obamacare. When it came time to write the legislation, none of those promises made it to paper. Trump has had years to rework this legislation, but he did not because his real motivation, which does not align with what his mouth says, was only to kill Obamacare.

More at "6 promises Trump has made about health care"
www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-promises-236021

Can Signym please agree that this experiment of having a TV host and shady real estate developer with "ADHD", no government knowledge, 6 bankruptcies, 5 kids from 3 marriages, 23 charges of sexual assault, and 35,000 lawsuits is not going well at all?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yup.

It's YUGE with just as many people as was needed to get elected in the first place.

Have fun with Trump until 2024.

That's if he makes it to 2020. I would have said impeachment was mostly dead in the water, but baby man keeps stepping in it.

Nah.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

Let me put this to you oppositely, SECONDRATE

. . .

How abput responding to my points?

Quote:
Let me put this to you directly, Signym.

Trump made 6 promises about health care:

‘health insurance for everybody’
‘no cuts … to medicaid’
‘no one will lose coverage’
‘nobody will be worse off financially’
‘get rid of artificial lines’
‘everybody’s going to be taken care of’

Oh, there were claims that Trump’s legislation would keep the promises, but what Trump actually did was attempt to repeal Obamacare. When it came time to write the legislation, none of those promises made it to paper. Trump has had years to rework this legislation, but he did not because his real motivation, which does not align with what his mouth says, was only to kill Obamacare.

More at "6 promises Trump has made about health care"
www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-promises-236021

Can Signym please agree that this experiment of having a TV host and shady real estate developer with "ADHD", no government knowledge, 6 bankruptcies, 5 kids from 3 marriages, 23 charges of sexual assault, and 35,000 lawsuits is not going well at all?

I'll respond to your comment when you respond to mine.

Otherwise ... nice deflection!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:11 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nah.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yah.

Betrayal is a leitmotif for this president’s entire life. Think of the infant child of a nephew who had crucial medical benefits withdrawn by Trump because of Trump’s retaliation against his nephew over an inheritance dispute. Think of how he cheated on his wives. Think of those who enrolled at Trump University and were defrauded. Think about the contractors whom Trump has stiffed. Think of Jeff Sessions, the first prominent Republican to endorse Trump, whom Trump viciously turned against because Sessions had properly recused himself from overseeing the investigation into whether Russia had intervened in the 2016 election. Think about those who served in Trump’s administration—Rex Tillerson, John Bolton, Don McGahn, Reince Priebus, Gary Cohn, James Mattis, and many more—who were unceremoniously dumped and, in some cases, mocked on their way out the door.

Also think of how Trump has disparaged his own country while making excuses for strongmen. When MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough said Vladimir Putin “kills journalists, political opponents, and invades countries,” Trump replied that “at least he’s a leader.” Besides, Trump asserted, “I think our country does plenty of killing also.” And when asked whether Erdogan was exploiting the coup attempt to purge his political enemies, Trump did not call for the Turkish leader to observe the rule of law, or Western standards of justice. “When the world sees how bad the United States is and we start talking about civil liberties, I don’t think we are a very good messenger,” he said.

Trump built his success on his willingness to toss aside mentors, friends, and family members during moments of frustration and chaos. Serial betrayal is a central trait of Trump’s character, and his critics warned from the start against elevating such a person to the nation’s highest position of public trust. When the consequences are the serial humiliation of Cabinet secretaries and White House aides, they are easier for Trump’s political supporters to rationalize or overlook. But as the professor Robert King once declared, “Betrayal is a garment without seams.” The danger is far plainer when the victims of Trump’s betrayal are longtime American allies facing deadly force.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/10/trump-betrayed-kurds-whos-ne
xt/600004/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:30 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

How abput responding to my points?

I'll respond to your comment when you respond to mine.

Otherwise ... nice deflection!

How about responding to your own comment that Trump has ADHD? There are drugs to treat ADHD, but Trump is not taking them. You never explained why he is not. You need a theory of why he is not being treated before you try to sell the idea he has ADHD.
www.healthline.com/health/adhd/treatment-overview#medications

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:35 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Drugs for ADHD don't always work, and some have nasty side effects.

In general, roughly 30% of people don't respond to drugs or respond negatively whether they're for ADHD, anxiety, depression, seizures, schizophrenia, etc. As you should know, seeing as how yours have obviously failed.

Jeeze, get a grip on reality, will 'ya?

The insane never-Trumpers will be driven even more insane in the wash/rinse/spin/repeat/ cycle they mistake for reality.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Nah.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Yah.

Nah.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:57 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Drugs for ADHD don't always work, and some have nasty side effects.

In general, roughly 30% of people don't respond to drugs or respond negatively whether they're for ADHD, anxiety, depression, seizures, schizophrenia, etc. As you should know, seeing as how yours have obviously failed.

Jeeze, get a grip on reality, will 'ya?

Get a grip, yourself. The White House physician has a wide choice of drugs for ADHD, but he has not prescribed any for Trump. 1kiki and Signym have to explain that before trying to sell the idea that Trump has ADHD, or else the doctor is committing malpractice.

Which is it? Trump does NOT have ADHD? Or his physician is guilty of malpractice?

What are those drugs that the White House physician could be prescribing?
amphetamine-based stimulants (Adderall, Dexedrine, Dextrostat)
dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn)
dextromethylphenidate (Focalin)
methylphenidate (Concerta, Daytrana, Metadate, Ritalin)
atomoxetine (Strattera)
antidepressants like nortriptyline (Pamelor)
guanfacine (Intuniv)
clonidine (Kapvay)
www.healthline.com/health/adhd/treatment-overview#medications

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 10:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Get a grip, yourself. The White House physician has a wide choice of drugs for ADHD, but he has not prescribed any for Trump. 1kiki and Signym have to explain that before trying to sell the idea that Trump has ADHD, or else the doctor is committing malpractice.

I already commented on it ... TRUMP DOESN'T DO DRUGS.

A physician can prescribed, but s/he can't force someone to take.

I have heard many children describe their bad reactions to various medications, especially psychoactive ones, and in particular to ADHD medications which they have refused to take. Many children felt that the meds made them dull, depressed, apathetic, sick. Now I'm going to speculate. When I read that Trump was sent to a military-type academy, my spidey-sense was activated because there are only a few reasons why fathers send their sons there, and one of them is ADHD. I suspect ... but of course we will never know ... that drugs may have been tried on Trump when he was young, which was why he has an aversion to them now.

Now, since this is the SECOND time that I've answered that point, how about answering mine at least once?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 2:48 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hmmm.... I guess SECONDRATE you must be too busy firing another Texas Republican to respond to my post. So while we wait for SECONDRATE to finish getting his nasty jollies, to recap ....

While many of you have said that Trump is narcissist and/or sociopath, the description is consistent with ADHD, possibly mixed with ODD.

This thread has touched on Trump's motivations (Is he working on behalf of Putin? His own financial interests? Is he a narcissist?)

Trump's ethics (Does he cheat on his taxes? Does he cheat on his contracts? Is he a sociopath?) and

Trump's competence (Is he crazy?)

Let's try to keep these thoughts separate and discuss them independently instead of mixig them together, shall we?

***** As an aside, Trump isn't the only powerful person whose capacity has come into question. Bill Gates has a hard time even looking at people, and in meetings he would rock himself so violently he would sometimes bang his head on the table. Elon Musk hass all the hallmarks of some stuck on the "manic" end of the bipolar spectrum. Steve Jobs had all the hallmarks of being both narcissistic and compulsive. If anyone is a socipath, it would be Mark Zuckerberg. John F Kennedy had Addison's disese, which causes changes in behavior and personality. The point is, it's not a problem ... unless it becomes one.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 4:16 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Get a grip, yourself. The White House physician has a wide choice of drugs for ADHD, but he has not prescribed any for Trump. 1kiki and Signym have to explain that before trying to sell the idea that Trump has ADHD, or else the doctor is committing malpractice.
I already commented on it ... TRUMP DOESN'T DO DRUGS.

A physician can prescribed, but s/he can't force someone to take.

I have heard many children describe their bad reactions to various medications, especially psychoactive ones, and in particular to ADHD medications which they have refused to take. Many children felt that the meds made them dull, depressed, apathetic, sick. Now I'm going to speculate. When I read that Trump was sent to a military-type academy, my spidey-sense was activated because there are only a few reasons why fathers send their sons there, and one of them is ADHD. I suspect ... but of course we will never know ... that drugs may have been tried on Trump when he was young, which was why he has an aversion to them now.

Now, since this is the SECOND time that I've answered that point, how about answering mine at least once?

Signym, have you heard the phrase "take one's medicine"? You are telling me that Trump is not mature enough to take his medicine for ADHD. Well, isn't he a special little boy. You must be extremely proud of your Child-President. I sure hope Trump never needs an antibiotic because he won't take it, since "TRUMP DOESN'T DO DRUGS", and the whole US government will collapse when Trump dies from an easily treated infection. Or Trump could resign since V.P. Mike Pence will take his medicine.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 4:50 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

John F Kennedy had Addison's disease, which causes changes in behavior and personality. The point is, it's not a problem ... unless it becomes one.

I'm old enough to remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, when JFK's diseased mind became a problem. I was living in Miami at the time, so it was a big deal on TV. When I was much older, I understood how stupidly JFK had gotten the World into that Crisis. He was off-his-rocker, out-of-his-mind. It would not have been a bad thing if JFK's Addison's disease had disqualified him from being President. Trump's untreated ADHD should disqualify him to be President. He could have stayed a TV host on a game show.

As reminder that JFK was a bad President: Reached through sober analysis, Stern’s conclusion that “John F. Kennedy and his administration, without question, bore a substantial share of the responsibility for the onset of the Cuban missile crisis” would have shocked the American people in 1962, for the simple reason that Kennedy’s administration had misled them about the military imbalance between the superpowers and had concealed its campaign of threats, assassination plots, and sabotage designed to overthrow the government in Cuba — an effort well known to Soviet and Cuban officials.
www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/the-real-cuban-missile-cr
isis/309190/

I'm not even bringing up JFK's crazy Vietnam policy or him giving the go ahead to assassinate President of Vietnam Ngo Dinh Diem. JFK was a bad President, maybe worse than Trump. Depends on how bad Trump gets.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 5:01 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Get a grip, yourself. The White House physician has a wide choice of drugs for ADHD, but he has not prescribed any for Trump.

And you know what medications Trump has been trialed-on in the past ... HOW exactly, SLOPPY? Did the voices in your head tell you?

The insane never-Trumpers will be driven even more insane in the wash/rinse/spin/repeat/ cycle they mistake for reality.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 5:17 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
What are those drugs that the White House physician could be prescribing?
amphetamine-based stimulants (Adderall, Dexedrine, Dextrostat)
dextromethamphetamine (Desoxyn)
dextromethylphenidate (Focalin)
methylphenidate (Concerta, Daytrana, Metadate, Ritalin)
atomoxetine (Strattera)
antidepressants like nortriptyline (Pamelor)
guanfacine (Intuniv)
clonidine (Kapvay)

BTW, you forgot Provigil. Well, that's what happens when your 'knowledge' is one link deep. *

2ish decades ago, when I volunteered as a lab rat in a double-blind Provigil study for ADHD (having been diagnosed and already having failed on a number of scrips, and having both the dx and my IQ confirmed by the people doing the study), not only did it not help me, it gave me a weird, nasty headache, and I had to drop out.

ADHD is something I can personally attest to. The drugs - even if they help - can be only minimally effective or completely ineffective on a significant portion of people; AND / OR have have unacceptable side-effects.

This is what webmd has to say: "These drugs ease ADHD symptoms in about 70% of adults and 70% to 80% of children. They tend to cut down on hyperactivity, interrupting, and fidgeting. They can also help a person finish tasks and improve relationships."

THAT 30% MEDICATION FAILURE RATE? YEAH, IT'S A WELL KNOWN THING.

The insane never-Trumpers will be driven even more insane in the wash/rinse/spin/repeat/ cycle they mistake for reality.

* ETA: though I should commend you for posting that one link, since a lot of people like WISHY don't even do that.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
and having both the dx and my IQ confirmed by the people doing the study

Then we're all very sorry for your stroke/ brain injury/ Alzheimers/ lead poisoning.

I don't believe for a HALF second you have a 140 IQ. Maybe they were humoring you.

As for obsessively posting links...There isn't enough time in my LIFESPAN to school you or Sig. You'll just have to try out the Google thing on your own.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:25 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Get a grip, yourself. The White House physician has a wide choice of drugs for ADHD, but he has not prescribed any for Trump.
And you know what medications Trump has been trialed-on in the past ... HOW exactly, SLOPPY? Did the voices in your head tell you?

This started with Signym's assumption that Trump's problem is ADHD. If it was, he'd take a drug for ADHD or else should not be President. He is not being treated for ADHD, so he doesn't have ADHD. It is time for Signym to find another reason, other than medical, for Trump being bad at his job. Shift the blame away from Trump, somehow.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 8:36 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"If it was (true that Trump has ADHD), he'd take a drug for ADHD or else should not President."

That's your opinion, which you've backed up with nothing.

So, let's discuss your assumptions - certain mental conditions should disqualify leaders from office.

Quote:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201602/study
-half-all-presidents-suffered-mental-illness

According to a study by Jonathan Davidson of the Duke University Medical Center and colleagues, who reviewed biographical sources for the first 37 presidents (1776-1974), half of those men had been afflicted by mental illness—and 27% met those criteria while in office, something that could have clearly affected their ability to perform their jobs.

The authors of the study concluded that 24% percent of presidents met the diagnostic criteria for depression, including James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Franklin Pierce, Abraham Lincoln, and Calvin Coolidge. (Depression seemed to ease for the group about a century ago, coincidently, around the time electricity and indoor plumbing swept the nation. I’m not saying the two are connected but I have my suspicions.) (When it comes to world leaders in general, Winston Churchill was a famous suffered from depression as well. - 1kiki)

Davidson and his team also found evidence of anxiety disorders, ranging from social phobia to generalized anxiety disorder, among 8% of the presidents, including Thomas Jefferson, Ulysses S. Grant, Coolidge, and Woodrow Wilson.

More seriously, the team concluded that 8% of presidents had signs of bipolar disorder, Lyndon Johnson and Theodore Roosevelt among them. Indeed, Theodore Roosevelt’s decision to go on a two-year expedition of unexplored areas of the Amazon smacks of manic thinking. (Only 16 of the 19 expedition members survived the ordeal.)

Finally, 8% of the presidents studied exhibited evidence of alcohol abuse or dependence. Pierce died of cirrhosis of the liver; Grant was once allegedly so drunk he fell of his horse during a military parade in New Orleans; and Nixon was once unable to take a rather important phone call from the British Prime Minister because he was “loaded."

Numerous other presidents had physical conditions that can have a severe impact on psychological functioning. Taft, for example, had sleep apnea, which is associated with declines in cognitive functioning across the board, and most famously, some scholars now believe that Ronald Reagan showed early signs of Alzheimer’s while still in office.

And fwiw I think dubya fried his brain on drugs, and Clinton was a sociopath.

Which one of these presidents should have been disqualified?

The insane never-Trumpers will be driven even more insane in the wash/rinse/spin/repeat/ cycle they mistake for reality.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 9:10 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Which one of these presidents should have been disqualified?

Woodrow Wilson. He had a stroke in office and his wife became President.
www.history.com/this-day-in-history/woodrow-wilson-suffers-a-stroke

Bill Clinton. If he had been removed, V.P. Al Gore would have been President when he ran against George Bush. Bush would have never become President because the Supreme Court would not have dared to refuse, by a vote of 5 to 4 strictly along partisan lines, a recount in Florida for a sitting President. With Dick Cheney not being the V.P., there would have been no Iraq War.

Al Gore, not George Bush, should be sitting in the White House today as the newly elected president of the United States, two new independent probes of the disputed Florida election contest have confirmed.
www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jan/29/uselections2000.usa

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:10 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So you would have disqualified exactly none of them due to a mental or psychological condition - right?

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:10 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Let me put this to you oppositely, SECONDRATE

. . .
How abput responding to my points?

Quote:
Let me put this to you directly, Signym.

Trump made 6 promises about health care:

‘health insurance for everybody’
‘no cuts … to medicaid’
‘no one will lose coverage’
‘nobody will be worse off financially’
‘get rid of artificial lines’
‘everybody’s going to be taken care of’

Oh, there were claims that Trump’s legislation would keep the promises, but what Trump actually did was attempt to repeal Obamacare. When it came time to write the legislation, none of those promises made it to paper. Trump has had years to rework this legislation, but he did not because his real motivation, which does not align with what his mouth says, was only to kill Obamacare.

More at "6 promises Trump has made about health care"
www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-obamacare-promises-236021

Can Signym please agree that this experiment of having a TV host and shady real estate developer with "ADHD", no government knowledge, 6 bankruptcies, 5 kids from 3 marriages, 23 charges of sexual assault, and 35,000 lawsuits is not going well at all?
I'll respond to your comment when you respond to mine.

Otherwise ... nice deflection!

Still waiting for your response.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You won't get one. At least, not one that addresses your post.

And just so it doesn't get lost in the gafla, and people can't claim they didn't know / you never posted ...

I posted your points that SLOPPY can't address ... again ... below.

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Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let me put this to you oppositely, SECONDRATE

WHO would oppose securing our borders, and just as importantly ... why?

WHO would push for MOAR WAR and, just as importantly ... why?

WHO would oppose spending on infrastructure, and ... why?

I think Congress had amply demonstrated that it does not have America's interests at heart because it opposes policies that are directly beneficial to America.

Trump's implementation leaves much to be desired .... I think I already said that ... but his motives are in the right place. A lot more than deep-state complicit establishment politicians.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 15, 2019 11:25 PM