REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Biden

POSTED BY: THG
UPDATED: Thursday, October 17, 2024 13:30
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PAGE 5 of 18

Tuesday, April 6, 2021 1:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
"Raping people with a needle"?

Seriously?



Penetration with out consent. Yes. Rape.

Quote:

And since this is NOT being driven by the Biden* administration, tell me why we should be talking about it in this thread.



Follow the post trail here if you really care to know. I don't just pop up on random threads to post about this.

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Tuesday, April 6, 2021 3:52 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WAR WITH CHINA? WHAT FUN!

Fred Reed

There is no limit to misjudgement. If the psychic curiosities in the Federal bunker start a war with China, or push Beijing into starting one, it will be blamed on a proximate cause, such as a collision of warships after which some lieutenant who joined on waivers lost it and opened fire. After all, historians have to write about something. The causes will actually be deeper and more complex.

To begin, people are cerebrally arranged to form groups–“packs” is a better word—and fight with other groups. This is dimwitted, but so are people. The urge manifests itself in wars, political parties, football, teenage gangs, and contract bridge. It is not rational. In football, armored mercenary felons having no relation to the cities they represent, battle other felons from another city, most of whose citizens would not let their daughters within a parsec of said felons—all this while the fans scream in adrenal murderousness. It is just what we do. At the national level, it is called “patriotism.”

Territoriality is part of the disorder. Human minds—the phrase may be an overstatement—seem intended for small wild groups for whom protection of hunting grounds might be important. When a Secretary of State embodies this instinct, he may, for example, confuse Asia with a patch of woods rife with deer. An instinct well suited to one situation is applied to another to which it isn’t.

But why do Americans regard China as an enemy? Partly because the vast military sector of the economy needs an enemy as a budgetary pretext. This is often said. It is also true. Since none of the anointed enemies—Russia, China, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea—does anything to threaten Americans, a drumbeat of media about largely imaginary menaces is needed. And provided.

At a somewhat deeper level, it is again the pack instinct. Conservatives in particular tend to see the world in terms of tribes, countries, or faiths presumed hostile. Even though the public has almost no knowledge of China, or because of this, it can quite easily be persuaded that China is very dangerous. People can then easily begin clamoring for war and, politicians being politicians, they will not risk votes by pointing out the stupidity.

But let us go back to the collision of warships. Why would a diversity-admit junior officer open fire on China? Proximately, because he is frightened and panicky. A bit more remotely, because he has been told over and over and over that the Chinese are dangerous and aggressive and want to do terrible things, seldom specified. The military tells them this because you cannot prepare the troops for war by telling them that there is no reason for it.



Why would a President allow a war, knowing (if in a lucid moment) that it would produce absolute unshirted havoc in the economy even if it didn’t go nuclear? He wouldn’t. That is, he wouldn’t all at once choose Armageddon. But he couldn’t afford to seem soft on China, not with the midterms looming, so he couldn’t back off. If in the ensuing shootout the Navy got trounced, he most assuredly couldn’t drop the matter, and would have to double down. So, of course, would the Chinese for the same sorts of reasons. Off to the races.

Deeper in the forest of causation is that the pathologically aggressive, amoral, manipulative, and crafty tend to rise to power. We select as rulers those who are least fit to rule. In America this is often done a bit differently, with the unscrupulous and powerful choosing cardboard leaders whose strings they can pull. The effect is the same.

Why would war seem reasonable? Because Americans have never seen one, and believe their forces to be invincible. If you think that you can’t lose a fight, why avoid one? And because those in comfortable circumstances know that a war in Asia would be fought by the lower economic classes, about whom they care nothing and don’t much like. American elites do not fight. Note the list of draft dodgers during Vietnam: Bush II, Cheney, Bolton, Trump, Biden.

These men, knowing almost nothing of the military, war or, very likely, military history, are quickly hijacked mentally by the Pentagon. The firm handshake, the steely gaze, the clean shaven, confident, and patriotic warriors (if only via Powerpoint) are impressive to pols who…well, you know…haven’t done that. They project strength and realism, without necessarily having either. Listening to them, you can easily get a sense of being accepted into a special, manly club. They say that America has the most powerful, invincible, best trained, tra la, tra la, and if you haven’t been there it is easy to believe. The Chinese? A cakewalk. Iran? Coupla weeks.

Another reason for easily blundering into a war poorly understood is the very low quality of American government. Congress and the President are chosen by popularity contests, not according to competence. A congressman who worked his way up the political ladder in Wheeling or Baton Rouge knows state politics. He is unlikely to know anything about the first Island Chain or what a terminally guided ballistic missile is. A friend in a position to know estimates that ninety percent of the Senate do not know where Myanmar is. No one without a grasp of geography has more than a child’s understanding of military, economic, or strategic reality. But they vote on these things.

Sez I, we are well and truly screwed. But there is little we can do about it.

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If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2021 10:34 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
"Raping people with a needle"?

Seriously?



Penetration with out consent. Yes. Rape.

Quote:

And since this is NOT being driven by the Biden* administration, tell me why we should be talking about it in this thread.


Follow the post trail here if you really care to know. I don't just pop up on random threads to post about this.




After further consideration about your post, and for two straight days while looking at news on "ban" "covid passports" in the previous 24 hour period, I feel that this is VERY pertinent to the "Biden*" thread.

Half of the results are Legacy Media outlets and "Fact Checkers" claiming that the White House is not going to implement a Federal Covid Vaccine Mandate or Passport.

While I'm pretty sure that is true, at least this week, all they're doing is skirting responsibility for the issue and delegating that authority to the businesses that they KNOW will do it for them. And you can never, ever rule out the possibility that they'd just do a 180 and institute a mandate a week or two from now. It's just stupid talk that stupid people believe.

Simply saying "we're not going to do it" isn't enough. The White House needs to ban the passports or any job requirements for the vaccinations, otherwise they're complicit and might as well have signed it into law themselves.



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Wednesday, April 7, 2021 1:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WAR IN UKRAINE.
Seems more and more likely. Russia has withdrawn it's US ambassador and he's not returning.

WAR WITH CHINA.
Over Taiwan, most likely.

All of the (very deliberate) provocation towards war is coming from our side. Are these people in the Biden* administration nuts?

Yanno, Trump held back the neocons, but they managed to thwart any substantial moves towards peace and troop withdrawal anyway. I think they got a feeling of their own power when they consolidated against the Trump administration. Now that the Presidential chair is being warmed by Biden*, the neocons are running the show.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 7, 2021 3:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see that the TDSers around here STILL don't want to discuss Biden*.

Whyizzit?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Thursday, April 8, 2021 9:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Top stories on Biden* today:

Biden Announces Gun Control Executive Actions, Says Second Amendment Not "Absolute"

Weighing In on the MLB All-Star Game: A Presidential Wild Pitch?

Migrant Encounters Up 71% in March as Biden Grapples With Border

Administration Poised to Extend U.S. Troop Presence in Afghanistan

Democrats will be destroyed in the mid-terms.

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Friday, April 9, 2021 2:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Meanwhile ... about that Nazification of the Democrat Party ...

Quote:

Pentagon approves deployment of Guard at Capitol until May 23


https://www.sentinelsource.com/news/national_world/pentagon-approves-d
eployment-of-guard-at-capitol-until-may-23/article_ba86f73c-c0f6-5d38-8392-130ab7e7c8e3.html



This is beginning to look like the Green Zone in Iraq. Or maybe the indefinite deployment of troops in Afgha ... well, everywhere across the globe.

Maybe we should start a betting pool on when the National Guard might actually withdraw from Washington DC?

I'm thinking the REAL reason that they're there is for when Kamala has to take over for Biden*, and they think they might need troops for an "orderly transition". Since that depends very much on the state of Biden's* brain, that could be anywhere from two weeks to two years from now.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Friday, April 9, 2021 2:46 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I tried to find the direct readout of this conversation, but couldn't. This is the best I could do.

Quote:

XI JINPING CALLS ANGELA MERKEL
Thursday, April 8, 2021

Xi says China ready to work with Germany, EU to create more global certainty
Source: Xinhua| 2020-06-04 04:55:39|Editor: huaxia

BEIJING, June 4 (Xinhua) -- Chinese President Xi Jinping said Wednesday that China stands ready to work with Germany and the European Union (EU) to strengthen strategic cooperation, uphold multilateralism, tackle global challenges, and jointly add certainty to the current world of uncertainty.

In a telephone conversation in the night with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Xi noted that it was the third time since the onset of the COVID-19 outbreak that he and Merkel had spoken over the phone, which reflects the deep political mutual trust and close strategic communication between the two sides.

The Chinese side appreciates the German government's objective and rational stand as well as its respect for science on the pandemic issue, Xi said.

He added that China is ready to work with Germany to support the work of the World Health Organization (WHO), promote international cooperation within such frameworks as the United Nations and the Group of 20, help African countries fight the coronavirus disease, and contribute to safeguarding global public health security.

Stressing the need to coordinate epidemic control and economic and social development, Xi said the general trend of the Chinese economy towards stable long-term growth with a sound momentum remains unchanged.

China, he added, will stay committed to further opening up to and expanding cooperation with the rest of the world, and continue to create a favorable environment for German enterprises to increase investment in China.

The recently launched China-Germany "fast track" arrangement will help enterprises in both countries to speed up business resumption, and maintain the stability of international industrial and supply chains, he said.

The Chinese president said he is confident that China-Germany cooperation will play its due role in helping pull the world out of the economic recession at an early date.

With China and Germany maintaining a stable and sound cooperative relationship, China stands ready to continue dialogue and exchanges with Germany, Xi said.

Noting that Germany is to take over the rotating presidency of the European Union (EU) for the second half of this year, he added that China appreciates Germany's willingness to actively promote the development of China-EU ties.

As a series of significant events of China-Germany and China-EU political exchanges are now under discussion, China is willing to keep close communication and coordination with Germany and the EU to ensure the success of these events and lift China-Germany and China-EU relations to higher levels, he added.

For her part, Merkel said that Germany attaches importance to the economic and social development plan made in China's "two sessions," and stands ready to work with China to promote work and production resumption without compromising outbreak control and continuously deepen bilateral economic cooperation.

Germany highly appreciates the announcement made by Xi that China's COVID-19 vaccine will be made a global public good, she said, adding that under current circumstances, to enhance international solidarity and multilateralism is crucial to the global fight against the pandemic.

The chancellor said Germany is willing to strengthen exchanges with China and continue to support the WHO playing its important role, so as to promote international public health security cooperation.

Germany, she added, hopes to maintain dialogue with China and boost cooperation as regards a broad range of fields and issues, and also stands ready to keep close communication with China to materialize the important events on the Germany-China and EU-China agenda and push for higher-level development of Germany-China and EU-China ties.



http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/04/c_139112077.htm


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 10, 2021 11:00 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, now I know what the Matt Gaetz story i ginat distraction from:

Quote:

Daily Mail Exposes Hunter Biden Bombshells After 'Tell-All' Book Holds Back
Tyler Durden's Photo

According to one British commentator, the Daily Mail is the most widely read publication in Britain, and closely associated with the current Conservative (Boris Johnson) government

Quote:

by Tyler Durden
Saturday, Apr 10, 2021 - 05:55 AM

With Hunter Biden on a serious image rehabilitation tour - a 'tell all' book combined with television interviews from friendly outlets designed to invoke pity over the First Son's crack and hooker habits, the Daily Mail is now telling the rest of the story regarding the contents of his abandoned laptop after Hunter admitted it 'certainly' could be his in a Sunday interview with CBS.

If you've seen the laptop photos which leaked last October, you can probably stop here. The Mail did spare us from blurred pictures of Hunter's wang, along with several sex tapes released by exiled Chinese billionaire Guo Wengui.

After obtaining a copy of the hard drive, DailyMail.com commissioned top cyber forensics experts Maryman & Associates to analyze its data and determine whether the laptop's contents were real.

The firm's founder, Brad Maryman, is a 29-year FBI veteran Supervisory Special Agent who served as an Information Security Officer and founded its first computer forensics lab. -Daily Mail

The Mail obtained over 100,000 text messages, 154,000 emails and over 2,000 photos which were verified by top forensics experts, which reveal that Joe 'became a punching bag for Hunter's drug-fueled rants,' and 'paid his grandchildren's bills when Hunter had drained his bank accounts with prostitutes and crack cocaine.'

Hunter appeared to be obsessed with making and starring in porn films with prostitutes, videos and photos on his laptop show.

The hard drive contains hundreds of pictures of naked women and naked selfies of Hunter, as well as dozens of videos.

Hunter photographed and filmed himself, often with two prostitutes at a time, in explicit videos that he then posted on adult website Pornhub under the username 'RHEast'.

Hunter filmed himself with the women from his laptop webcam, sometimes shooting at different angles using an iPad and cell phone. -Daily Mail





The Mail also promises to release more Hunter laptop drops:

Hunter's laptop is a pandora's box of shocking revelations, explicit photos and intimate communications.In the following days, DailyMail.com will publish more shocking stories from Hunter's laptop, including:

* How Hunter blew hundreds of thousands on prostitutes, drugs and luxury cars, leaving him scrambling to avoid jail for $320k in unpaid taxes
* How five members of the Biden family have been to rehab for drug or alcohol abuse – and a stunning admission by Joe to his son
* The OTHER Biden family member planning to buy and cook crack, after falling into the disastrous addiction with Hunter
* Hunter's unconventional and unlikely relationship with his well-known psychiatrist
* The whispered bedroom conversation with a prostitute caught on Hunter's webcam, in which he confesses he had a previous laptop stolen – by Russians for blackmail


So it looks like the Russians had kompromat on Hunter Biden?
Quote:

The president's son left his 2017 MacBook Pro laptop at a Wilmington, Delaware computer repair shop in April 2019 and never returned for it.

In one text exchange between Joe and Hunter, Joe wrote "Good morning my beautiful son. I miss you and love you. Dad." To which a petulant Hunter raged at his father for "having made clear to the world that the only reason for not [running for president is your] family problems im glad to be the f***ing bullseye you painted on my back."

In another exchange, Hunter complained that Joe's advice not to defend himself publicly during his expensive divorce with ex-wife Kathleen Biden, or his affair with his brother's widow Hallie, had backfired.

"Your team just made me the uncontrollable troubled tax cheat philanderer sex and drug addict that you tried so hard to fix but couldn't yt. They just totally wrote my life away," Hunter wrote, adding "If you dont run [for president] ill never have a chance at redemption."

Joe replied with a promise to run, though hinted that maybe Hunter should probably stop getting so dramatic over texts due to them being a target.

"I'll run but I need you,' he wrote. 'H[allie] is wrong. Only focus is recovery. Nothing else... When you can and feel like it call. Positive my text etc a target. Love."

Joe Biden would announce his run for president two months later - during which Hunter's laptop contents would leak, defeating the purpose of rehabilitating the crack addict's image.

Joe would again warn Hunter not to spill his life story over text, writing "Be careful what you text. Likely I'm being hacked."

Read the rest of the report here.

And then there's this other thing Hunter failed to mention in his book or his interviews...

“Hunter Biden purchased a handgun illegally, he lied on a federal background check..”

“The question is will David Chipman arrest the President’s son? If he doesn’t... how exactly are you obligated to follow these rules?”

Great questions, Tucker. pic.twitter.com/mNbYAwzOHN
— Benny (@bennyjohnson) April 9, 2021



The Daily Mail promises more.

In looking for this story online, all I found were alt news sites. Not a single M$M was carrying it.

So.

One of the things I noticed about the Brit MI6 and M$M is that the CIA frequently "launders" its "intelligence" thru MI6. The "Steele dossier". The "Iraq WMD" allegation (under Tony Blair). This gives CIA a little more credibilty when MI6-affiliated sources pop up with psyops, instead of coming directly from the CIA itself.

BUT.

In this case, the story is being carried by the British press, but no the USA M$M (which is linked to the CIA).

Which brings me back to Ukraine. But I'll have to get to that later.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 10, 2021 11:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Oh BTW, SECONDRATE: An example of another non-Republican making bad life choices.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 10, 2021 5:26 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey JO...

Better hope that UBI kicks in. That new infrastructure budget thinks you're the wrong color.

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Friday, April 16, 2021 2:01 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Jeez... Haven't filled the tank in a while.

I sure didn't miss $3.00/gal + prices the last 4 years.

Shame.

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Friday, April 16, 2021 6:52 AM

THG


T


President Joe Biden comments on Russia sanctions and interference in the U.S. election


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Friday, April 16, 2021 9:16 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Don't care what his handlers have told him what to read off a teleprompter... poorly.

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Sunday, April 18, 2021 8:29 AM

THG

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Sunday, April 18, 2021 8:35 AM

THG


As Biden approaches 100th day in office, Republicans admit difficulties in attacking his agenda

Republicans have attacked that worldview, arguing that unified Democratic control of government has resulted in too much liberalism, with Biden's governance being painted as a liability.

However, nearly 100 days into Biden's first term, most voters seem to hold the opposite view and the GOP has been almost powerless to stop him.

Over 6 in 10 Americans (62 percent) support raising taxes on corporations, while 31 percent oppose it. A similar number support raising taxes on people earning more than $400,000 a year, 64 - 31 percent.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-biden-approaches-100th-day-
in-office-republicans-admit-difficulties-in-attacking-his-agenda/ar-BB1fLeEx?ocid=msedgntp




Go Joe

T



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Sunday, April 18, 2021 9:57 AM

THG


Senators in the dark on parliamentarian's decision

A parliamentarian ruling touted as a breakthrough for the Democratic agenda is putting the Senate in uncharted territory and sparking confusion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senators-in-the-dark-on-parlia
mentarian-s-decision/ar-BB1fMec1?ocid=msedgntp



T


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Monday, April 19, 2021 8:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Wow, if only the press carried news about Biden's* foreign policy clusterfucks.

Let's look at Ukraine as Biden's* foray into foreign policy.

First, the Biden team* starts off by royally pissing off China, and the EU starts off by royaly pissing off Russia. Then the Biden administration* - along with Britain - propels Ukraine's Zelenskiy to forward troops to the contact line, promising that USA warships will enter the Black Sea and doing a deal with Turkey's Erdogan to provide drones and political support to the tottering Zelenskiy government.

So Russia moves 200,000 troops to the Russian LPR/DPR border and promising to destroy Ukraine if it attacks LPR/DPR - giving Merkel and Macron a butt-puckering moment- who scuttle off to urge Zelenskiy not to do anything rash, the two USA wsrships steaming to the Black Sea are turned around and parked off of Crete while the USAsays they were never deployed to the Black Sea in the first place (altho theu clearly asked for permission from Turkey to pass thru the Straits of Bosporus weeks b4 Ukrainian troops started to move) and Biden* calls Putin and begs for a summit. In the meantime, the Biden* administration places meaningless but faith-breaking sanctions on Russian foreign debt, and asks to use Norway's tunnels as a place to stash USA submarines.

And that's just in the EU-sphere.

Troop withdrawal from Afghanistan. Good idea, except they'll be replaced with mercs.

USA and Chinese warships circling each other around Taiwan.

USA press not covering ANY of this, but hiding Biden's* cluaterfucks.

I'm going to post a video that has a good analysis about this when I have the chance.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Monday, April 19, 2021 10:00 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Three months tomorrow and everything is pretty much falling to shit.

Oh well. I'm insulated from it. If and when it ever reaches me, we're all up the creek without a paddle.

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Monday, April 19, 2021 3:41 PM

THG

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Tuesday, April 20, 2021 3:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Trump says Biden's plan to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan is a 'wonderful and positive thing to do

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-biden-s-plan-to-wit
hdraw-us-troops-from-afghanistan-is-a-wonderful-and-positive-thing-to-do/ar-BB1fOlsy?ocid=msedgntp

Yes, it is. It's too bad the Dems/deep state didn't allow it when Trump was President, but are all behind it now.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, April 20, 2021 3:39 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Trump says Biden's plan to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan is a 'wonderful and positive thing to do

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-biden-s-plan-to-wit
hdraw-us-troops-from-afghanistan-is-a-wonderful-and-positive-thing-to-do/ar-BB1fOlsy?ocid=msedgntp

Yes, it is. It's too bad the Dems/deep state didn't allow it when Trump was President, but are all behind it now.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.




Five bucks says you can find Ted saying it was a terrible idea somewhere between 2016 and the end of 2020.



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Tuesday, April 20, 2021 3:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, seeing as US warships had to turn tail recently, behind a cloud of official chaff to confuse the USA population as to what, exactly, happened ...

I'm posting this as a placeholder and framework for thinking about how Russia and China can counter and topple the USA hegemony.

JO, YOU MIGHT WANT TO PAY ATTENTION! RUSSIA AND CHINA - AND INDEED ANY NATION- DON'T WORK BY "MAGIC", THEY TAKE POSITIVE REALWORLD STEPS WITH REALWORLD CONSEQUENCES. SO DIAL DOWN YOUR PARANOIA AND PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR!

*****

What levers has the USA used, or might use in future, and how can/will China and Russia counter them? I will add to these if I think of more.

MILITARY
Land forces
Naval forces
Air and space forces
Nuclear forces
Electronic warfare
Training and communication
Strategic and tactical effectiveness

MILITARY/BLACK OPS
Cyberwarfare
Intelligence gathering
Psyops and false flags
Proxy war
Color revolution
Assassination

NON-MILITARY
Economic warfare (blockades, trade sanctions, tariffs)
Financial (debt trap, currency warfare, financial sanctions, IMF/World Bank)
Political (satrapy, bribes, coalitions, alliances, selective UN/other international rules enforcement)
"Soft power": NGOs, propaganda, movies and television shows, social media

Anything else?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Tuesday, April 20, 2021 5:53 PM

REAVERFAN


Now, tell us about your murderous boss, Putin.



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Tuesday, April 20, 2021 11:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


apropos of me "thinking out loud" about the levers of power, this very interesting article was pointed out to me:

Quote:

America’s Neoliberal Financialization Policy vs. China’s Industrial Socialism
Michael Hudson • April 15, 2021 • 2,400 Words

Nearly half a millennium ago Niccolo Machiavelli’s The Prince described three options for how a conquering power might treat states that it defeated in war but that “have been accustomed to live under their own laws and in freedom: … the first is to ruin them, the next is to reside there in person, the third is to permit them to live under their own laws, drawing a tribute, and establishing within it an oligarchy which will keep it friendly to you.”[1]

Machiavelli preferred the first option, citing Rome’s destruction of Carthage. That is what the United States did to Iraq and Libya after 2001. But in today’s New Cold War the mode of destruction is largely economic, via trade and financial sanctions such as the United States has imposed on China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela and other designated adversaries. The idea is to deny them key inputs, above all in essential technology and information processing, raw materials, and access to bank and financial connections, such as U.S. threats to expel Russia from the SWIFT bank-clearing system.

The second option is to occupy rivals. This is done only partially by the troops in America’s 800 military bases abroad. [NOT BASES, INSTALLATIONS. - SIGNY] But the usual, more efficient occupation is by U.S. corporate takeovers of their basic infrastructure, owning their most lucrative assets and remitting their revenue back to the imperial core.

President Trump said that he wanted to seize Iraq’s and Syria’s oil as reparations for the cost of destroying their society. His successor, Joe Biden, sought in 2021 to appoint Hillary Clinton’s loyalist Neera Tanden to head the government’s Office of Management and Budget (OMB). She had urged that America should make Libya turn over its vast oil reserves as reparations for the cost of destroying its society. “We have a giant deficit. They have a lot of oil. Most Americans would choose not to engage in the world because of that deficit. If we want to continue to engage in the world, gestures like having oil rich countries partially pay us back doesn’t seem crazy to me.” [2]

U.S. strategists have preferred Machiavelli’s third option: To leave the defeated adversary nominally independent but to rule via client oligarchies. President Jimmy Carter’s national-security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski referred to them as “vassals,” in the classical medieval meaning of demanding loyalty to their American patrons, with a common interest in seeing the subject economy privatized, financialized, taxed and passed on to the United States for its patronage and support, based on a mutuality of interest against local democratic assertion of nationalistic self-reliance and keeping the economic surplus at home to promote domestic prosperity instead of being sent abroad.

That policy of privatization by a client oligarchy with its own source of wealth based on the U.S. orbit is what American neoliberal diplomacy accomplished in the former Soviet economies after 1991 to secure its Cold War victory over Soviet Communism. The way in which client oligarchies were created was a grabitization that utterly disrupted the economic interconnections integrating the economies. “To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires,” Brzezinski explained, “the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected and to keep the barbarians from coming together.”[3]

After reducing Germany and Japan to vassalage after defeating them in World War II, U.S. diplomacy quickly reduced the Britain and its imperial sterling area to vassalage by 1946, followed in due course by the rest of Western Europe and its former colonies. The next step was to isolate Russia and China, while keeping “the barbarians from coming together.” If they were to join up, warned Mr. Brzezinski, “the United States may have to determine how to cope with regional coalitions that seek to push America out of Eurasia, thereby threatening America’s status as a global power.”[4]

By 2016, Brzezinski saw Pax Americana unravelling from its failure to achieve these aims. He acknowledged that the United States “is no longer the globally imperial power.”[5] That is what has motivated its increasing antagonism toward China and Russia, along with Iran and Venezuela.

The problem was not Russia, whose Communist nomenklatura let their country be ruled by a Western-oriented kleptocracy, but China. The U.S.-China confrontation is not simply a national rivalry, but a conflict of economic and social systems. The reason why today’s world is being plunged into an economic and near-military Cold War 2.0 is to be found in the prospect of socialist control of what Western economies since classical antiquity have treated as privately owned rent-yielding assets: money and banking (along with the rules governing debt and foreclosure), land and natural resources, and infrastructure monopolies.

This contrast in whether money and credit, land and natural monopolies will be privatized and duly concentrated in the hands of a rentier oligarchy or used to promote general prosperity and growth has basically become one of finance capitalism and socialism. Yet in its broadest terms this conflict existed already 2500 years ago, in the contrast between Near Eastern kingship and the Greek and Roman oligarchies. These oligarchies, ostensibly democratic in superficial political form and sanctimonious ideology, fought against the concept of kingship. The source of that opposition was that royal power – or that of domestic “tyrants” – might sponsor what Greek and Roman democratic reformers were advocating: cancellation of debts to save populations from being reduced to debt bondage and dependency (and ultimately to serfdom), and redistribution of lands to prevent its ownership from becoming polarized and concentrated in the hands of creditors and-landlords.

From today’s U.S. vantage point, that polarization is the basic dynamic of today’s U.S.-sponsored neoliberalism. China and Russia are existential threats to the global expansion of financialized rentier wealth. Today’s Cold War 2.0 aims to deter China and potentially other counties from socializing their financial systems, land and natural resources, and keeping infrastructure utilities public to prevent their being monopolized in private hands to siphon off economic rents at the expense of productive investment in economic growth.

The United States hoped that China might be as gullible as the Soviet Union and adopt neoliberal policy permitting its wealth to be privatized and turned into rent-extracting privileges, to be sold off to Americans. “What the free world expected when it welcomed China into the free trade body [the World Trade Organization] in 2001,” explained Clyde V. Prestowitz Jr, trade advisor in the Reagan administration, was that, “from the time of Deng Xiaoping’s adoption of some market methods in 1979 and especially after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1992 … increased trade with and investment in China would inevitably lead to the marketization of its economy, the demise of its state-owned enterprises.”[6]

But instead of adopting market-based neoliberalism, Mr. Prestowitz complained, China’s government supported industrial investment and kept money and debt control in its own hands. This government control was “at odds with the liberal, rules-based global system” along the neoliberal lines that had been imposed on the former Soviet economies after 1991. “More fundamentally,” Prestowitz summed up:

China’s economy is incompatible with the main premises of the global economic system embodied today in the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and a long list of other free trade agreements. These pacts assume economies that are primarily market based with the role of the state circumscribed and micro-economic decisions largely left to private interests operating under a rule of law. This system never anticipated an economy like China’s in which state-owned enterprises account for one-third of production; the fusion of the civilian economy with the strategic-military economy is a government necessity; five year economic plans guide investment to targeted sectors; an eternally dominant political party names the CEOs of a third or more of major corporations and has established party cells in every significant company; the value of the currency is managed, corporate and personal data are minutely collected by the government to be used for economic and political control; and international trade is subject to being weaponized at any moment for strategic ends.

This is jaw-dropping hypocrisy – as if the U.S. civilian economy is not fused with its own military-industrial complex, and does not manage its currency or weaponize its international trade as a means of achieving strategic ends. It is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, a fantasy depicting American industry as being independent of government. In fact, Prestowitz urged that “Biden should invoke the Defense Production Act to direct increased U.S.-based production of critical goods such as medicines, semiconductors, and solar panels.”

While U.S. trade strategists juxtapose American “democracy” and the Free World to Chinese autocracy, the major conflict between the United States and China has been the role of government support for industry. American industry grew strong in the 19th century by government support, just as China is now providing. That was the doctrine of industrial capitalism, after all. But as the U.S. economy has become financialized, it has de-industrialized. China has shown itself to be aware of the risks in financialization, and has taken measures to attempt to contain it. That has helped it achieve what used to be the U.S. ideal of providing low-priced basic infrastructure services.

Here is the U.S. policy dilemma: Its government is supporting industrial rivalry with China, but also supports financialization and privatization of the domestic economy – the very policy that it has used to control “vassal” countries and extract their economic surplus by rent-seeking.

Why U.S. finance capitalism treats China’s socialist economy as an existential treat

Financialized industrial capital wants a strong state to serve itself, but not to serve labor, consumers, the environment or long-term social progress at the cost of eroding profits and rents.

U.S. attempts to globalize this neoliberal policy are driving China to resist Western financialization. Its success provides other countries with an object lesson of why to avoid financialization and rent-seeking that adds to the economy’s overhead and hence its cost of living and doing business.

China also is providing an object lesson in how to protect its economy and that of its allies from foreign sanctions and related destabilization. Its most basic response has been to prevent an independent domestic or foreign-backed oligarchy from emerging. That has been one first and foremost by maintaining government control of finance and credit, property and land tenure policy in government hands with a long-term plan in mind.

Looking back over the course of history, this retention is how Bronze Age Near Eastern rulers prevented an oligarchy from emerging to threaten Near Eastern palatial economies. It is a tradition that persisted down through Byzantine times, taxing large aggregations of wealth to prevent a rivalry with the palace and its protection of a broad prosperity and distribution of self-support land.

China also is protecting its economy from U.S.-backed trade and financial sanctions and economic disruption by aiming at self-sufficiency in essentials. That involves technological independence and ability to provide enough food and energy resources to support an economy that can function in isolation from the unipolar U.S. bloc. It also involves decoupling from the U.S. dollar and from banking systems linked to it, and hence from U.S. ability to impose financial sanctions. Associated with this aim is creation of a domestic computerized alternative to the SWIFT bank-clearing system.

The dollar still accounts for 80 percent of all global transactions, but less than half of today’s Sino-Russian trade, and the proportion is declining, especially as Russian firms avoid dollarized payments or accounts from being seized by U.S. sanctions.

These protective moves limit the U.S. threat to Machiavelli’s first option: destroy the world if it does not submit to U.S.-sponsored financialized rent extraction. But as Vladimir Putin has framed matters: “Who would want to live in a world without Russia?”

Kin Chi: My quick comment: The USA surely would want to destroy its rival, taking the first option. But it knows it is impossible to succeed, even in the case of Russia, and not to mention China. Thus it hopes for the rival to disintegrate from within, or for substantial interest blocs from within to be complicit with US interests. Hence we need to assess how Russia and China are reacting to this challenge, given that there are multiple contesting forces within each country. And that is also why we have been very concerned with pro-US neo-liberal political economists and policy-makers in these two countries.

I agree with you that China has put much investment into infrastructure and industry. However, we have been concerned with China’s financialization moves. Hence your statement that “China has avoided financialization” may not be the actual case, as various moves have been taken in financialization, but we can say that China seems to be aware of the risks in financialization, and has taken measures to attempt to contain it, causing discontent from US financial interests which would want to see China going further down the road.

It is interesting that yesterday, the White House expressed concern over the China-Iraq use of digital RMB to settle oil accounts as this would be beyond US monitoring of transactions.

Notes

[1] Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince (1532), Chapter 5: “Concerning the way to govern cities or principalities which lived under their own laws before they were annexed.”

[2] Neera Tanden, “Should Libya pay us back?” memo to Faiz Shakir, Peter Juul, Benjamin Armbruster and NSIP Core, October 21, 2011. Mr. Shakir, to his credit, wrote back: “If we think we can make money off an incursion, we’ll do it? That’s a serious policy/messaging/moral problem for our foreign policy I think.” As president of the Center for American Progress, Tanden backed a 2010 proposal to cut Social Security benefits, reflecting the long-term Obama-Clinton objective of fiscal austerity at home as well as abroad.

[3] Zbigniew Brzezinski, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geostrategic Imperatives (New York: 1997), p. 40. See the discussion by Pepe Escobar, “For Leviathan, It’s So Cold in Alaska,” Unz.com, March 18, 2021.

[4] Brzezinski, ibid., p. 55.

[5] Brzezinski, “Towards a Global Realignment,” The American Interest (April 17, 2016) For a discussion see Mike Whitney, “The Broken Checkboard: Brzezinski Gives Up on Empire,” Counterpunch, August 25, 2016.

[6] Clyde Prestowitz, “Blow Up the Global Trading System, Washington Monthly, March 24, 2021..



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:15 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

So, seeing as US warships had to turn tail recently, behind a cloud of official chaff to confuse the USA population as to what, exactly, happened ...

I'm posting this as a placeholder and framework for thinking about how Russia and China can counter and topple the USA hegemony.

What levers has the USA used, or might use in future, and how can/will China and Russia counter them? I will add to these if I think of more.





And again comrade Signym shows she is russian not American. First Sig, our warships did not turn tale and run. Now, let's take the word hegemony. The word you use to describe America. In the case of America it means leadership across the world. In the case of russia or china, it means dominance. Dominance over its own people. Ruling not governing with an iron fist. Something you never criticize but instead cheer when you wrongly believe one of these countries bested the U S.

It is so, so obvious you are discontented and resentful of our qualities and greatness. It is so, so obvious you wallow in self-pity and your inferiority. It is the thing that always stands out when you post. How you feel inferior.


T



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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:27 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Trump says Biden's plan to withdraw US troops from Afghanistan is a 'wonderful and positive thing to do

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-biden-s-plan-to-wit
hdraw-us-troops-from-afghanistan-is-a-wonderful-and-positive-thing-to-do/ar-BB1fOlsy?ocid=msedgntp

Yes, it is. It's too bad the Dems/deep state didn't allow it when Trump was President, but are all behind it now.





Russian troll, much?



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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 7:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
So, seeing as US warships had to turn tail recently, behind a cloud of official chaff to confuse the USA population as to what, exactly, happened ...
I'm posting this as a placeholder and framework for thinking about how Russia and China can counter and topple the USA hegemony.
What levers has the USA used, or might use in future, and how can/will China and Russia counter them? I will add to these if I think of more.

THUGR: And again comrade Signym shows she is russian not American. First Sig, our warships did not turn tale [sic] and run.

Ok, let's just say that they never made it to the Black Sea where they were originally sent
Quote:

Now, let's take the word hegemony. The word you use to describe America. In the case of America it means leadership across the world. In the case of russia or china, it means dominance. Dominance over its own people. Ruling not governing with an iron fist. Something you never criticize but instead cheer when you wrongly believe one of these countries bested the U S.

It is so, so obvious you are discontented and resentful of our qualities and greatness. It is so, so obvious you wallow in self-pity and your inferiority. It is the thing that always stands out when you post. How you feel inferior.



Once again, we have THUGR not even bothering to crack an online dictionary to look up the true meaning of a word.

HEGEMONY:
n.The predominance of one state or social group over others.
n. Predominance; preponderance; leadership; specifically, headship or control exercised by one state over another or others, as through confederation or conquest: originally applied to such a relation often existing among the states of ancient Greece.
n.Leadership; preponderant influence or authority; -- usually applied to the relation of a government or state to its neighbors or confederates.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/hegemony

n. leadership or predominant influence exercised by one nation over others, as in a confederation.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hegemony

hegemony
noun politics formal
(especially of countries) the position of being the strongest and most powerful and therefore able to control others
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/hegemony


Hegemony refers to relationships BETWEEN NATIONS, not as to whether the hegemon is or isn't internally authoritarian.

Whether YOU call it "world leadership" or neocons call it the "unipolar moment" or someone else calls it "hegemony" it all revolves around the concept of a nation dominant over other nations. Please, stop conflating words to fit your political sensitivities. Learn English, and stop trying to make words mean what YOU want them to mean.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 8:04 AM

THG


Hegemony: Influence or authority over others. America has influence. russia or china exerts authority. Simple comrade Signym, simple.

It's the same for preponderant.

T



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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 8:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, seeing as US warships had to turn tail recently, behind a cloud of official chaff to confuse the USA population as to what, exactly, happened ...

I'm posting this as a placeholder and framework for thinking about how Russia and China can counter and topple the USA hegemony.

JO, YOU MIGHT WANT TO PAY ATTENTION! RUSSIA AND CHINA - AND INDEED ANY NATION- DON'T WORK BY "MAGIC", THEY TAKE POSITIVE REALWORLD STEPS WITH REALWORLD CONSEQUENCES. SO DIAL DOWN YOUR PARANOIA AND PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR!

*****

What levers has the USA used, or might use in future, and how can/will China and Russia counter them? I will add to these if I think of more.

MILITARY
Land forces

The USA has approximately 1.4 million active duty military. https://www.statista.com/statistics/232330/us-military-force-numbers-b
y-service-branch-and-reserve-component
/ The remainder of NATO has approx 1.9 million active duty military
https://www.statista.com/statistics/584286/number-of-military-personne
l-in-nato-countries
/

By contrast, Russia has somewhat less than 1 million active duty military, and China has about 2 million.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org
/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel
Naval forces

It's difficult to compare land forces to land forces bc they're not broken out separately. The Russian Navy is rather small, as is it's airforce. The problem with the USA and NATO is that it's forces are spread across much of the globe, while Russia's and China's are concentrated defensively, for the most part, within their own respective borders, so considering their respective "near abroads" (Ukraine, Taiwan) Russia and China would probably have the numeric advantage in a conventional ground war.
Quote:


Air and space forces
Nuclear forces
Electronic warfare
Training and communication
Strategic and tactical effectiveness

MILITARY/BLACK OPS
Cyberwarfare
Intelligence gathering
Psyops and false flags
Proxy war
Color revolution
Assassination

NON-MILITARY
Economic warfare (blockades, trade sanctions, tariffs)
Financial (debt trap, currency warfare, financial sanctions, IMF/World Bank)
Political (satrapy, bribes, coalitions, alliances, selective UN/other international rules enforcement)
"Soft power": NGOs, propaganda, movies and television shows, social media

Anything else?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 8:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Hegemony: Influence or authority over others. America has influence. russia or china exerts authority. Simple comrade Signym, simple.

It's the same for preponderant.

Anyone (besides you) reading the actual definitions would see that you're wrong.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 9:03 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


There are no Russians posting here.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:34 AM

THG


Biden to Propose Cutting U.S. Emissions in Half by 2030

President Biden is expected this week to call for cutting U.S. greenhouse-gas emissions roughly in half by 2030, according to people familiar with the matter, as he pushes to jump-start global efforts to tackle climate change.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-to-propose-cutting-u-s-e
missions-in-half-by-2030/ar-BB1fTeoi?ocid=msedgntp



Go Joe...

T



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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


uh-huh

Get back to me in 9 years.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Wednesday, April 21, 2021 12:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
Quote:

Biden to Propose Cutting U.S. Emissions in Half by 2030

President Biden is expected this week to call for cutting U.S. greenhouse-gas emissions roughly in half by 2030, according to people familiar with the matter, as he pushes to jump-start global efforts to tackle climate change.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-to-propose-cutting-u-s-e
missions-in-half-by-2030/ar-BB1fTeoi?ocid=msedgntp



Go Joe...

Since the USA military is the LARGEST SINGLE USER OF FOSSIL FUELS IN THE WORLD (too many links to post, but here is one https://www.nationalpriorities.org/blog/2020/05/04/if-us-military-majo
r-polluter-why-not-green-military
/) the BEST start would be to close our 800+ military installations and bases all over the world, and stop steaming our military ships/flying our jets around all over god's creation. Not only would that reduce OUR immediate greenhouse gas emissions, other nations could throttle back on THEIR defensive postures, and all the emissions from military manufacturing would also be nearly-eliminated.

Biden*, of course, will do no such thing. He will make the USA population pay for the military's profligate waste of fuel, materiel, and money, of course.




-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Thursday, April 22, 2021 2:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:
So, seeing as US warships had to turn tail recently, behind a cloud of official chaff to confuse the USA population as to what, exactly, happened ...

I'm posting this as a placeholder and framework for thinking about how Russia and China can counter and topple the USA hegemony.

JO, YOU MIGHT WANT TO PAY ATTENTION! RUSSIA AND CHINA - AND INDEED ANY NATION- DON'T WORK BY "MAGIC", THEY TAKE POSITIVE REALWORLD STEPS WITH REALWORLD CONSEQUENCES. SO DIAL DOWN YOUR PARANOIA AND PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR!

*****

What levers has the USA used, or might use in future, and how can/will China and Russia counter them? I will add to these if I think of more.

MILITARY
Land forces

The USA has approximately 1.4 million active duty military. https://www.statista.com/statistics/232330/us-military-force-numbers-b
y-service-branch-and-reserve-component
/ The remainder of NATO has approx 1.9 million active duty military
https://www.statista.com/statistics/584286/number-of-military-personne
l-in-nato-countries
/

By contrast, Russia has somewhat less than 1 million active duty military, and China has about 2 million.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org
/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel


It's difficult to compare land forces to land forces bc they're not broken out separately. The Russian Navy is rather small, as is it's airforce. The problem with the USA and NATO is that it's forces are spread across much of the globe, while Russia's and China's are concentrated defensively, for the most part, within their own respective borders, so considering their respective "near abroads" (Ukraine, Taiwan) Russia and China would probably have the numeric advantage in a conventional ground war.
Quote:


Naval forces



Since the USA's power projection depends on aircraft carriers as well as bases across the globe I'm going to post this from Wikipedia
Quote:

A carrier strike group (CSG) is a type of carrier battle group of the United States Navy.[1] It is an operational formation composed of roughly 7,500 personnel, usually an aircraft carrier, at least one cruiser, a destroyer squadron of at least two destroyers or frigates,[2] and a carrier air wing of 65 to 70 aircraft. A carrier strike group also, on occasion, includes submarines, attached logistics ships and a supply ship. The carrier strike group commander operationally reports to the commander of the numbered fleet, who is operationally responsible for the area of waters in which the carrier strike group is operating.
U.S. Navy ships assigned to the USS George Washington Carrier Strike Group sail in formation in the Atlantic Ocean in November 2003.

Strike groups comprise a principal element of U.S. power projection capability; a single supercarrier holds enough firepower to rival the air forces of entire nations. Previously referred to as carrier battle groups (a term still used by other nations), they are often referred to by the carrier they are associated with (e.g., Enterprise Strike Group). As of March 2016 there are 10 carrier strike groups in the U.S. Navy.



The last time a carrier strike group was used to attack anyone was in 2016, when it was used to launch aircraft against "ISIS" in Syria. So they're effective against smaller nations with no defensive capability, or stateless militias, but would be totally useless against any nation with modern anti-ship missile defenses, such as Russia and China. Russia particularly has advanced missile technology, including a supersonic cruise missile (Kaliber) which can fly lower over the water (below radar detection) and become supersonic when near the target, perform high-angle evasive manuevers, and have a range of 200-400 miles or so in anti-ship mode.

Quote:

The antiship variants — designated the SS-N-27 Sizzler by NATO, or the 3M54T or 3M54K for the ship- and submarine-launched versions respectively — have shorter range, estimated between 270 and 410 miles, and are designed to skim low over the sea to avoid detection.
A LOT MORE AT https://asiatimes.com/2021/03/russias-kalibr-missile-puts-us-on-the-ba
ck-heel
/

In addition, Russia is accepting into service the HYPERsonic air-launched ballistic missile, the Kinzhal https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/01/russia-prepares-to-accept
-kh-47m-kinzhal-hypersonic-missile-into-service
/ and apparently just successfully tested a HYPERsonic CRUISE missile, the Zircon/Tsirkon (too many links to post, here is one https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2020/04/09/russian-3m22-zircon-3m22-tsir
kon-hypersonic-cruise-missile
/ )

The average range of an unrefueled carrier-based aircraft is 500 miles.

The maximun supersonic Russian cruise missile range is 400 miles, so there is a 100-mile advantage (not much) of a carrier aircraft over land-based or ship-based defensive missiles. OTOH the missiles are faster than aircraft, giving them a time-advantage. Once an enemy ship is detected, Russian defensive missiles could destroy a carrier/enemy ship even if it was destroyed later by aircraft-launched or ship-launched American missiles.

Russia does have another advantage too: It's submarines. Russian submarines have proven to be mostly undetectable https://observer.com/2017/09/russia-new-invisible-nuclear-submarines/ So submarine-launched anti-ship missiles might be the tipping point.

Altogether, it looks to me like Russian missile technology has made the carrier group moot, because their defensive measures are cost-effective and could take out extremely expensive naval formations. If Russia decides to extend its protective umbrella over other nations, the USA would not be able to attack them.

Verdict: Russia has eliminated the USA's ability to attack via the navy.

China is investing heavily in what they call their "brown water" navy. I haven't looked at their technical capabilities, but their shipbuilding capabilities dwarfs that of the USA. IF (big IF) Russia were to outfit Chinese ships with their latest missiles, the USA Navy would be toothless in South China sea and elsewhere.


Quote:

Air and space forces
Nuclear forces
Electronic warfare
Training and communication
Strategic and tactical effectiveness

MILITARY/BLACK OPS
Cyberwarfare
Intelligence gathering
Psyops and false flags
Proxy war
Color revolution
Assassination

NON-MILITARY
Economic warfare (blockades, trade sanctions, tariffs)
Financial (debt trap, currency warfare, financial sanctions, IMF/World Bank)
Political (satrapy, bribes, coalitions, alliances, selective UN/other international rules enforcement)
"Soft power": NGOs, propaganda, movies and television shows, social media

Anything else?


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Thursday, April 22, 2021 6:32 PM

THG


VLAD BOTTLES IT Russia BACKS DOWN from Ukraine and pulls back tens of thousands of troops as Putin caves in to the West.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14734717/russia-backs-down-ukraine-pulls
-back-troops-putin-caves
/


The pussy doesn't want to fuck with Biden. All that need be said to answer Sig's bullshit in her above post. The shame she must be feeling brings me great joy.

Go Joe...

T





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Thursday, April 22, 2021 7:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently, Russia got the response it was looking for: Zelenskiy and Biden* each begging for a summit meeting.

Putin has been pushing for a political settlement according to the Minsk accords (signed by Ukraine,France, and Germany (NOT Russia, so the next time you read about Russia "not implementing" the Minsk accords please be aware that it's not in Russia's power to implement something it's not a party to) which UKRAINE refuses to implement, bc it involves direct negotiations with DPR/LPR.

But in reality I think this was all about Nordstream2. Merkel's most recent speech (a couple of days ago) was still supporting it.

We shall see what happens.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Friday, April 23, 2021 5:50 AM

THG


T


President Biden announced a goal to cut carbon emissions in half by 2030 – and the Biden administration says its $2.25 trillion American Jobs Plan will help the country achieve Biden’s climate goal of cutting carbon emissions in half by 2030 by building green infrastructure.


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Friday, April 23, 2021 6:03 AM

THG


T


Mika & Joe Think Biden May Be A Transformational President





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Friday, April 23, 2021 6:28 AM

REAVERFAN


I'm stoked about Biden recognizing the Armenian Genocide primarily because it'll make the worst people online angry and I'm here for that!



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Friday, April 23, 2021 7:10 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Apparently, Russia got the response it was looking for: Zelenskiy and Biden* each begging for a summit meeting.




Russia Troops Withdraw From Ukraine Border After NATO F-16s Intercept Jets Over Baltic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-troops-withdraw-from-ukrai
ne-border-after-nato-f-16s-intercept-jets-over-baltic/ar-BB1fVVdR?ocid=msedgntp



Oops...

T



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Friday, April 23, 2021 10:02 AM

REAVERFAN


April 23, 2020: Former Guy touts bleach injections as a miracle cure.
April 23, 2021: Current Guy oversees America's 200 millionth covid vaccination.

Elections, they fucking matter.



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Friday, April 23, 2021 11:31 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
April 23, 2020: Former Guy touts bleach injections as a miracle cure.
April 23, 2021: Current Guy oversees America's 200 millionth covid vaccination.



Absolutely false.

Quote:

Elections, they fucking matter.



The 2020 fake mail-in ballot fraud election didn't matter.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Friday, April 23, 2021 11:32 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by THG:
T



Mika & Joe Think Biden May Be A Transformational President





It's Mika's job to control what Ted thinks.

--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:14 AM

THG


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:

April 23, 2020: Former Guy touts bleach injections as a miracle cure.
April 23, 2021: Current Guy oversees America's 200 millionth covid vaccination.

Elections, they fucking matter.




Poor Jack, he still thinks Trump won. How fucking sad is that, and how hard are you laughing REV? I'm laughing pretty hard myself.

Have you heard the latest? Jacks telling Haken he's going to involve him in a lawsuit. Whittaya think?

T



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Saturday, April 24, 2021 10:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Keep running interference for the biggest piece of shit that ever posted on these boards and see where it lands you Ted.



--------------------------------------------------

Imagine the hypocrisy of a government who will allow businesses to card people to get a job or buy groceries, but won't card people to vote in elections and gives millions of non-citizens free money from taxpayers.

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Saturday, April 24, 2021 12:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
I'm stoked about Biden recognizing the Armenian Genocide primarily because it'll make the worst people online angry and I'm here for that!



Why would it make anyone here angry? The only person of consequence that it would seriously piss off would be Erdogan, of Turkey, and possibly the Azeri President Ilhan Aliyev. So, would that push Turkey ... an important geopolitical member of NATO ... even closer to Russia?

If so, that might make Putin smile!

And I thought you were all about being paranoid about Putin!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 24, 2021 1:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

SIGNYM:

Apparently, Russia got the response it was looking for: Zelenskiy and Biden* each begging for a summit meeting.

THUGR: Russia Troops Withdraw From Ukraine Border After NATO F-16s Intercept Jets Over Baltic

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-troops-withdraw-from-ukrai
ne-border-after-nato-f-16s-intercept-jets-over-baltic/ar-BB1fVVdR?ocid=msedgntp



Oops...
Baloney. These interceptions go on all of the time.

Quote:

Russian fighter jet intercepts US, Norwegian patrol aircraft over Barents Sea: report

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-fighter-jet-intercepts-us
-norwegian-patrol-aircraft-over-barents-sea-report/ar-BB1fOJ1a


Quote:

Russian MiG-31 fighter jet intercepts US reconnaissance plane above Pacific Ocean

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/russia-says-su-27-fighter-je
t-intercepted-us-spy-plane-america-protests/story-99axoaqCn9KnInxYWcTX2O.html


The Black Sea and Sea of Azov are STILL interdicted to USA warships.

This was just NATO putting on a show bc they got caught flat-footed when 200,000 troops showed up on Russia's western border.

Some people have commented that there were a whole bunch of things that were supposed to happen at the same time: Assasination of Belarus' President Lukashenko and a coup, Ukraine invasion of DPR/LPR, mass demonstrations for Navalny, and the Czech accusation and expulsion of Russian diplomats etc which was supposed to distract and destabilize Putin but some things never happened and the timing was off on other things. Seeing their "master plan" fall apart, neocons are now looking for a timeout which will allow them to recoup and regroup. So Biden and Zelenskiy are hoping for a summit meeting!

So apparently there are some back-channel negotiations going on between Sullivan and his nearest Russian counterpart, Nokolai Patrushev. Meanwhile, both the Chinese and top Russians are reminding the Kremlin that there isn't an agreement that the USA hasn't broken sooner rather than later (just ask Native Americans!) and - knowing that- the Kremlin appears pretty skeptical of anything the USA might propose.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.

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Saturday, April 24, 2021 1:51 PM

REAVERFAN


Pro-Russian Russian trolls can't hide their desire to fellate Putin. ^



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