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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

. . . someone who can truly Make America Great Again.

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Originally posted by second:
it is a structural problem getting a veto proof majority of Congress to agree on what MAGA really should be.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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Originally posted by second:
it is a structural problem getting a veto proof majority of Congress to agree on what MAGA really should be.

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I dunno. Democrats seem to be working really hard to make sure that a veto proof majority replaces them in 2022.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
We'll all be much better off when California makes good on its promises and secedes.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SECONDRATE: If you can get off your anti-Trump, anti-Republican soapbox for a bit, how about posting some of YOUR recommendations for change? PLEASE, DON'T POST ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION. You hide behind that way too much.

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SIGNYM:

SECONDRATE: If you can get off your anti-Trump, anti-Republican soapbox for a bit, how about posting some of YOUR recommendations for change? PLEASE, DON'T POST ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION. You hide behind that way too much.

SECOND: I want a mandatory death penalty for a federal official evading more than $100 million in taxes

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and also for a federal official inciting insurrection

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while either in or out of office, but I don't think that will get a veto proof majority in Congress because some Congressmen might see that as targeting a specific individual.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, what would it take to Make American Great Again?

Anybody here love America enough to set aside their partisanship and hazard a few ideas?

I'll start:

Equal opportunity for everyone. Not "women's rights" or "BLM" or "white rights" ... just EQUAL rights. Because who could NOT be for equal rights, unless you're seeking a position of PRIVILEGE?



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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's a good start. It's too bad that it takes a Canadian to stand up for America.

*****

Folks, I don't know what your problem is. This not a trap or grand conspiracy, it's an attempt to find common ground. Unless you see finding common ground as a problem itself?


When Linus Torvalds write the Linux kernel, which was meant to be a non-proprietary version of the various forms of Unix, he gathered up ALL of the commands written for the various kernels, and sifted out any command that did not appear in ALL versions ... no matter how useful they might appear ... as being NON ESSENTIAL. Basically, (for those New Math graduates out there) he generated an INTERSECTING SET, the area where all of the versions overlapped.

If we toss up a number of goals against a wall, we might see where they overlap. It's a brainstorming technique.

Anyone up for brainstorming?

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's a good start. It's too bad that it takes a Canadian to stand up for America.

*****

Folks, I don't know what your problem is. This not a trap or grand conspiracy, it's an attempt to find common ground. Unless you see finding common ground as a problem itself?


When Linus Torvalds write the Linux kernel, which was meant to be a non-proprietary version of the various forms of Unix, he gathered up ALL of the commands written for the various kernels, and sifted out any command that did not appear in ALL versions ... no matter how useful they might appear ... as being NON ESSENTIAL. Basically, (for those New Math graduates out there) he generated an INTERSECTING SET, the area where all of the versions overlapped.

If we toss up a number of goals against a wall, we might see where they overlap. It's a brainstorming technique.

Anyone up for brainstorming?

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The first version of Linux was Linus Torvalds' work, all alone. Thirty years later, he retains the highest authority to decide which new code is incorporated into the standard Linux kernel. Torvalds holds the "Linux" trademark and monitors the use of it, chiefly through the Linux Mark Institute.

A computer operating system is NOT remotely like how the Federal government was built, has operated, could ever function. But if you want to make a list of functions you want government to perform and another list of what you don't want performed, go ahead. Make many lists and file them in a dusty cabinet or dump into a trashcan or post them on the internet. It is all the same, but nothing like Linus Torvalds' Linux, even if you're talking abstractly, not literally.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, fellow posters, what are YOUR ideas on how to Make America Great Again?

Please. DON'T MENTION TRUMP. This is about policies, not people.

SECONDRATE: If you can get off your anti-Trump, anti-Republican soapbox for a bit, how about posting some of YOUR recommendations for change? PLEASE, DON'T POST ANYONE ELSE'S OPINION. You hide behind that way too much.

*******

Everyone:

What would it take to Make America Great Again?

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Remove all Innocent people from incarceration. Leave the guilty drug dealers in.

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Build the wall to end Illegal Alien Invasion, child, drug, and sex trafficking.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

1. Close off the border. 100%. Not necessarily with a wall, but by letting everyone know there is NOTHING here for you if you aren't a citizen. No money, no food, no healthcare, no school. Nothing for any kids either. If you don't have a Social Security Number you are going to starve to death and be solely responsible for your children starving to death if you cross our border.

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2. Put a 12 year moratorium on legal immigration, including any and all refugees, until we have time to deport every illegal invader. In 12 years we can revisit the idea of legal immigration.

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3. Enforce Section 230 to the full extent. Facebook, Google, YouTube, ect. have until the end of 2021 to decide whether they are a platform or a publisher. Any further breaches and stifling of free speech will be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

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4. If you're not a pedophile, rapist, murderer or dealer of hard core drugs that are still illegal, you get discharged from prison immediately. If you spent time for dealing weed, you get back pay for all the years you lost paid for with tax dollars that hypocrites are raking in now with weed sales.

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5. STOP rewarding people for their fuck trophies. We should be rewarding people for NOT having kids or only having one or two.

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6. Allow every individual to opt out of certain things the Federal Government spends our income taxes on, and put that money in something they are behind. Every single person in America resents where some or most of that money goes. It will be a much easier pill to swallow if they have a say in where it is and isn't spent. (This would almost certainly have the additional benefit of divesting many people from the political turmoil we find ourselves in daily, knowing that even when the assholes you don't agree with are in office, your still contributing to things you agree with and you're not contributing to things you don't agree with... Then the other people can feel the same way about their income taxes when the assholes they don't agree with are running the show).

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7. Speaking of money. Show some fucking intelligence before spending it. There is nothing more wasteful of resources in the entire history of the world than the American Government.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Signy, I have 2 priorities as you know, because to me they're existential - in other words, related to maintaining our continued existence, or not. One is global warming, the other is nuclear weapons.


I'd say that we need very badly to reform our economic basis, as codified by our laws. From that mutant parent comes a multitude of deformed progeny. IMO principally they are the built-in need for excess, which is environmentally unsustainable; and the social division into the few humongously wealthy and the many economically stunted. Of course there's also government capture by the oligarchs and other vested interests, along with other issues. But, of course that economic reform isn't going to happen.

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So, primarily, after the 2 big priorities, I'd say the biggest priority needs to be equality of education. First of all, making sure that everyone knows how to read and write ENGLISH and do basic arithmetic at appropriate grade level; which imo means also MAKING ENGLISH THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE.

But I see this as not just making all the schools offer the same things, but sometimes taking an active role to make up for environments that stunt learning - lack of or poor food, safe places for kids to be when not in class like afterschool care while parents are at work; safe transportation so kids don't have to traverse homeless encampments or gangs; taking away kids phones at the beginning of the day; monitoring their communication to make sure there's no cyber-bullying; of course monitoring their behavior while on the grounds to stop rl bullying; classes in things they NEED to know like how to cook, how to save money, how to do laundry, how to take care of yourself, and so on; and TRADE AND SKILLS SCHOOLS FOR THOSE NOT GOING ON TO COLLEGE, AND COMMUNITY COLLEGE OR 4-YEAR COLLEGE FOR THOSE GOING FURTHER.


Of course better education means better opportunities. But IMO real education will help everyone understand their world better. Once you can read and write and do basic math you have the tools to learn and do more. Once you do that you can see better what's wrong with the country and be a better citizen in this democracy.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

1. Close off the border. 100%. Not necessarily with a wall, but by letting everyone know there is NOTHING here for you if you aren't a citizen. No money, no food, no healthcare, no school. Nothing for any kids either. If you don't have a Social Security Number you are going to starve to death and be solely responsible for your children starving to death if you cross our border.

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Women cross the border to have children here, who then - by grace of the 14th Amendment - automatically become citizens. Then the cry becomes to "unite the family" = "chained migration".

No border is SO tight that you will prevent that. What do you do about that, if anything?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

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6. Allow every individual to opt out of certain things the Federal Government spends our income taxes on, and put that money in something they are behind. Every single person in America resents where some or most of that money goes. It will be a much easier pill to swallow if they have a say in where it is and isn't spent. (This would almost certainly have the additional benefit of divesting many people from the political turmoil we find ourselves in daily, knowing that even when the assholes you don't agree with are in office, your still contributing to things you agree with and you're not contributing to things you don't agree with... Then the other people can feel the same way about their income taxes when the assholes they don't agree with are running the show).

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The way this was brought up was to have a form on the end of your tax form in which you could specify what % of your tax dollar would go to what programs. I like the idea: vote with our dollars. Direct democracy.

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Yeah. A lot of people probably won't care enough to fill it out, so it could be a new schedule that can be attached to your 1040.

This idea probably shouldn't have been so far down the list. I think it might be the best one here.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Remove all Innocent people from incarceration. Leave the guilty drug dealers in.

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Convicts are in jail because they've been found (or pled) guilty of SOMETHING. On what grounds would you release some convicts?

This is especially difficult bc prosecutors will often reduce a charge in order to get a conviction, so someone guilty of (say) murder will be charged with manslaughter, and some guilty of dealing will be charged with possession.

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Balance the budget. Spend less than we confiscate in revenue. Then pay down the debt.

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what spending would you reduce? Or would you raise taxes? If so, on who? Or both?

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Build the wall to end Illegal Alien Invasion, child, drug, and sex trafficking.

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Seems simple enough. What about those already here? Mass deportations?

Interesting thoughts, curious how you would implement them

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How people fill in the form would certainly be a direct vote on how they view the essential functions of government.

Unfortunately, knowing how Congress and bureaucrats like to protect their turf, there would prolly not be such a finely-divided form that you could ask for (say) 100% of your tax dollar to go to border protection and deportation of aliens. It would prolly be listed as Homeland Security, and used to surveil "white nationalist" groups and to fund the FBI.

Unless, maybe, there were a fill-in-the-blank categories where you could name the department or division where your money would go to? But even then, tho, it wouldn't guarantee that the money would be spent in ways that you would approve. Let's say that you would name your preferred agency as "US Customs and Border Protection". The funds might be used to build posh temporary housing and "welecome" programs for illegal aliens.

Sigh.

I like the idea, but the only way to get the money spent in ways that you want is to twist Congress' and the President's arms.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And even if they did it, unless there was full transparency with government spending going forward, who would believe that they were even following your wishes anyhow?

I sure wouldn't trust them.

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Originally posted by SECOND:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

And even if they did it, unless there was full transparency with government spending going forward, who would believe that they were even following your wishes anyhow?

I sure wouldn't trust them.

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Some people distrust Congress enough to threaten Congress. The Capitol police expect to investigate 10,000 threats against Congress by the end of this year. Two years ago it was only 6,000 threats. A government function that has not been mentioned until now: protect the government from assassination. It's not just the President and V.P. needing protection nowadays.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
1. Close off the border. 100%. Not necessarily with a wall, but by letting everyone know there is NOTHING here for you if you aren't a citizen. No money, no food, no healthcare, no school. Nothing for any kids either. If you don't have a Social Security Number you are going to starve to death and be solely responsible for your children starving to death if you cross our border.

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Women cross the border to have children here, who then - by grace of the 14th Amendment - automatically become citizens. Then the cry becomes to "unite the family" = "chained migration".

No border is SO tight that you will prevent that. What do you do about that, if anything?

Also, it's apparently very easy to illegally obtain a SSN.
And what kind of penalties would you have on businesses and individuals who hire illegals? Because you say "no money", which must mean "no jobs".

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So OOC, what is the thinking behind this?

Plus, having worked in the "regulatory" arena, writing a law that would separate "hard core" from other drugs and "dealers" from users would be difficult. It could be done, but it's complicated. For example, Andeans used to chew coca leaves as a stimulant to counteract the altitude and cold. You might get a somewhat bigger buzz than a couple cups of espresso, but it's not something to get addicted to. But concentrate the same chemical, make it volatile by adding a base, and then breathing it in all at once and your brain gets an enormous "hit" that it often continues to crave. So "hardcore" isn't just defined by chemistry but also by concentration and form: injectables and inhalables are more potent than forms taken by mouth. And then separating "dealers" from users would have to be by both quantity AND concentration.

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5. STOP rewarding people for their fuck trophies. We should be rewarding people for NOT having kids or only having one or two.

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No more tax breaks, welfare, EIC etc for more than one or two children, correct?

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6. Allow every individual to opt out of certain things the Federal Government spends our income taxes on, and put that money in something they are behind. Every single person in America resents where some or most of that money goes. It will be a much easier pill to swallow if they have a say in where it is and isn't spent. (This would almost certainly have the additional benefit of divesting many people from the political turmoil we find ourselves in daily, knowing that even when the assholes you don't agree with are in office, your still contributing to things you agree with and you're not contributing to things you don't agree with... Then the other people can feel the same way about their income taxes when the assholes they don't agree with are running the show).

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The way this was brought up was to have a form on the end of your tax form in which you could specify what % of your tax dollar would go to what programs. I like the idea: vote with our dollars. Direct democracy.

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7. Speaking of money. Show some fucking intelligence before spending it. There is nothing more wasteful of resources in the entire history of the world than the American Government.

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Agreed. But I think that if you had that tax form (above) and you could set aside some (or all) of your taxes for "deficit reduction", a lot of waste would be cut out automatically.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Remove all Innocent people from incarceration. Leave the guilty drug dealers in.

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Convicts are in jail because they've been found (or pled) guilty of SOMETHING. On what grounds would you release some convicts?

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Build the wall to end Illegal Alien Invasion, child, drug, and sex trafficking.

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Seems simple enough. What about those already here? Mass deportations?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The grounds of being proven innocent.
Why keep Joe Byran[sic] in Texas prison? Convicted in 1989.
Ben Spenser[sic] was released 8 years after being proven innocent. All of the innocent who are currently waiting that time can be released now. Today. No need for him to remain in prison an extra 8 years, nor others in the same boat.

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6IX4. If you're not a pedophile, rapist, murderer or dealer of hard core drugs that are still illegal, you get discharged from prison immediately. If you spent time for dealing weed, you get back pay for all the years you lost paid for with tax dollars that hypocrites are raking in now with weed sales.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I guess "drug crimes" is where you and JSF agree.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

As far as I know, that's only weed. Has California legalized Meth yet?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol

Good luck with that.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN
Leave the guilty drug dealers in.

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Remove all Innocent people from incarceration.

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Balance the budget. Spend less than we confiscate in revenue. Then pay down the debt.

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Build the wall to end Illegal Alien Invasion, child, drug, and sex trafficking.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Balance the budget. Spend less than we confiscate in revenue. Then pay down the debt.

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OK, maybe we should just start with a show of hands: How many people want to balance the budget?
And, since it is unlikely to happen all at once, how fast should this happen?
I suppose we can wrangle aferwards about how this should be done.
FWIW, in general I'm for balancing the the budget.

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How many people want to balance the budget?

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

The problem is all the earmarks and pork they pass.

Here's one I know I mentioned before, but forgot to put it on my list above...

Termination of bundling shit together. Every single thing that ever gets passed is voted on individually and on its own merit.

All they do now is barter for shit they want with OUR money. That's why nobody is happy with how the money is spent and why Congress always has approval ratings in the low double digits no matter who's in control.

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Originally posted by 1KIKI:

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How many people want to balance the budget?

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The government is the only entity that looks after the 'public good' (in theory, that's its job imo).

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