Successes in the War on Terror(ism) by SoupCatcher

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Successes in the War on Terror(ism)

POSTED BY: SOUPCATCHER
UPDATED: Friday, April 8, 2005 20:38
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1311
PAGE 1 of 1

Saturday, March 5, 2005 11:11 PM

I got tired of focusing on what I don't like about the current US administration so I decided to focus on one of the things I do like. Today I'm going to do a little post on some of our successes (and potential successes) in the War on Terror(ism). These are just a few. I'm sure there are more out there.

+ - success
* - innocent until proven guilty (so I’m not counting these as successes until there is a conviction)

+ William Krar
(“A raid in April found nearly two pounds of a cyanide compound and other chemicals that could create enough poisonous gas to kill everyone inside a space as large as a big-chain bookstore or a small-town civic center.
Authorities also discovered nearly half a million rounds of ammunition, more than 60 pipe bombs, machine guns, silencers and remote-controlled bombs disguised as briefcases, plus pamphlets on how to make chemical weapons, and anti-Semitic, anti-black and anti-government books.”)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Southwest/01/30/cyanide.probe.ap/
Arrested in April 2003.
+ Pled guilty in November 2003.
Sentenced to 11 years in prison in May 2004.

+ Clayton Waagner – Mailed phony packets of anthrax to abortion clinics.
Arrested on 5 December 2001.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2001/December/01_ag_629.htm
+ Convicted on 3 December 2003 (“of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act, of interstate transmission and mailing of threatening communications, and of threatening the use of a weapon of mass destruction.”).
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/December/03_crt_661.htm

+ Stephen John Jordi – Plotted to bomb abortion clinics.
Arrested on 11 November 2003.
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/LAW/11/12/abortion.clinics.arrest.ap/
+ Pled guilty on 13 February 2004 (“to Count 1 of a three-count Indictment charging him with attempted arson”).
Sentenced to 5 years prison and 5 years supervised release on 8 July 2004.
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/fls/abortionbomb.html

* Eric Rudolph – Accused of bombing Atlanta Olympics and abortion clinics.
Arrested on 31 May 2003
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2003/May/03_ag_325.htm
* Currently on trial.

Kentucky State Militia
+ Weapons cache seized on 27 November 2001 (“machine guns, nearly 35,000 rounds of ammunition, explosives and other items used to make pipe bombs”).
* Charlie Puckett – nine count federal indictment on weapons charges
Arrested on 26 February 2002.
http://www.adl.org/learn/news/militia_puckett.asp
* Became a fugitive on 14 March 2002.
http://www.adl.org/learn/news/militia_puckett_fugitive.asp

United Survivalists of America
+ Weapons cache seized on 4 October 2001 (“weapons, pipe bombs and other explosives, and more than 12,000 rounds of ammunition”).
* Thomas Wanick
Arrested on 4 October 2001
http://www.adl.org/learn/criminal_activity/oct_01.asp
* No further information available

I found most of these by surfing through back posts on David Neiwert’s excellent blog Orcinus ( http://dneiwert.blogspot.com). David is a freelancer covering domestic terrorism (among other topics). He also has a thought provoking essay called “The Rise of Pseudo Fascism” that I would recommend to anyone.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:51 AM

SAMWIBATT

Were these arrests made with new police powers granted by the war on terror legislation, e.g. Patriot act? They definitely sound like dangerous people, but I'm not sure how these are specifically "war on terror" successes as opposed to ordinary law enforcement successes.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, March 6, 2005 9:52 AM

HARDWARE

I'd agree that these are important law enforcement arrests, but nothing further than that. All of these are domestic, and none associated with Al Quaida. Most of these are being prosecuted under the Nation Firearms Act of 1934, hardly what I would call a law intended to help fight terrorism.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, March 6, 2005 10:32 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I think these are fair examples of successes of the war on terrorism in sort of philosophical sense. Although I agree that to describe these as successes in technical manner would really mean understanding how new laws enacted to combat terrorism since 9/ll applied. My sense however is that these are examples of investigations that probably predate 9/ll. There is a certain danger inherit in mixing the response to domestic terrorism with the response to foreign terrorism. The war on terror has largely referred to foreign attacks which are dealt with in a military manner. One would like to keep the military and domestic law enforcement affairs separate. But I do, in a philosophical sense, see these as great successes.

Oh, to yearn for the day when terrorism was limited to homegrown American fruitcakes

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, March 6, 2005 11:59 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Some other successes in the war on terror:

September 11, 2002: Ramzi Binalshibh, a key member of the Al Qaeda cell involved with the 9/ll attacks, captured in Pakistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2257456.stm

September 14, 2002: Five men suspected to be Al Qaeda terrorists were arrested in Buffalo, New York
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/14/buffalo.terror.arrests/

November 2, 2002: Six al Qaeda members killed in Yemen, including Abu Ali, one of the main planners of the attack on the Cole.
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/05/yemen.blast/index.html

February 2003: Sami Al-Arian and other members of the PIJ indicted for supporting terrorists guilty of over 100 murders, including US citizens.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/South/02/20/professor.background/index.html

June 23, 2003: British Royal Marines uncover the largest Taliban weapons cache then known.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2002/06/24/story30665.asp

March 2, 2003: The capture of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, al Qaeda’s operations chief.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/south/03/03/pakistan.arrests/

August 12, 2003: British illegal arms dealer arrested (later indicted) with 2 other men for attempting to smuggle in a Russian made anti-aircraft shoulder-fire missile system
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/13/attack/main568007.shtml

Syria which has held a political hold on Lebanon for many years is withdrawing in response to Lebanese protests against Syrian occupation.[1] Is this the “domino effect” proposed as a consequence of democratizing Iraq? Maybe. The US is in Iraq, genuinely attempting to build a democratic nation. Syrian leaders must worry about that, and the possibility that Bush might do to them what he did to Hussein. Saudi Arabia, whose political sway is strong among the people of the Middle East, supports a Syrian withdrawal, claiming, “Saudi Arabia does not want to see another Iraq in Syria.” [2] Similar, though smaller, challenges to anti-democratic authority are occurring in Egypt. It’s not that democracy hasn’t been on the minds of Middle Eastern peoples for many years. It’s just that with Western support, this time they have a chance. Democratic nations are less likely to support terrorists, and a democratic Middle East is probably the biggest success of the war on terror we could hope for.
http://dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=5&article_i
d=12891

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/03/06/syria/index.html
[2] http://www.reuters.co.za/locales/c_newsArticle.jsp;:422863c1:7a1438a8f
b195544?type=topNews&localeKey=en_ZA&storyID=7809615

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, March 7, 2005 6:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SamWibatt:
I'm not sure how these are specifically "war on terror" successes as opposed to ordinary law enforcement successes.

I'm a prosecutor maybe I can help.

There's a simple formula to tell the difference. If we arrest them before things explode, its law enforcement. If we arrest them after things explode, its "war on terror".

Now to me, as a prosecutor, it really doesn't matter if we arrest them for what they did or what they were planning to do. What matters is making sure they go to jail for as long as possible. I prefer to get them before they've done the big bad, but I take them as I find them and do my best to keep it from going any further.

Please note for the record that the Patriot Act's goal is to prevent terrorist attacks. Thus, under the above formula and in my humble opinion, its primarily a law enforcement tool. I can say its been invaluable both to law enforcement and the war effort.

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 8, 2005 8:38 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Just updating a thread I started and forgot about.

Eric Rudolph can now be unequivocally added to the success column.

Quote:
excerpted from http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/aln/Docs/Rudolph/Apr08ErRobRUDOLPHPleadsGty.
htm
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The Department of Justice announced today that Eric Robert Rudolph will plead guilty to federal charges stemming from a series of bombings, including the fatal attacks at Centennial Olympic Park in Atlanta during the 1996 Olympics and at a Birmingham, Alabama family planning clinic in 1998.
...

Looks like life in prison, but he avoids the death penalty. I oppose the death penalty philosophically but I have to wonder, if it's not on the table does Rudolph still plead guilty?

On a related note, the reason why I started this thread was because I consider domestic terrorists our opponents in the war on terror(ism) as much as international terrorists. Basically, anyone who wants to blow up American citizens to make a political point is someone I consider a terrorist we should be concerned about. From a personal perspective, I consider myself more at risk (however still a very, very slight risk) to being hurt in an attack by a domestic terrorist rather than an international terrorist simply due to the logistics - it's easier to operate from home.

I see Hero's distinction between law enforcement and war on terror(ism) but I, like him, do not care which tactics are used (as long as they are constitutional and Americans' civil rights are protected) as long as those who are planning to blow shit up are stopped. Preferably before they do what they want to do.

My point of view is apparently out of step with the current view of the Department of Homeland Security. David Neiwert had a highly informative post about this recently. Short summary: left-wing groups who are trying to destroy property - threat, right-wing groups who are trying to destroy people - not threat.

Quote:
excerpted from http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2005/03/priorities_28.html
Here's a reality check for the Department of Homeland Security: After the Oklahoma City bombing on April 19, 1995, through Jan. 1, 2000, there were over 40 serious cases of domestic terrorism -- some of it realized, some of it thwarted -- committed by right-wing extremists.

These were not petty or mere property crimes. They included the bombing of the Atlanta Olympics and abortion clinics by Eric Rudolph; a plan to attack a gathering of military families in the Midwest; and a plot to blow up a California propane facility. In every instance, the planned or perpetrated act involved serious violence in which potentially many people could be killed or injured.

Since that time, the rate has declined dramatically, but the cases keep occurring with some regularity, and the lethal nature of the threat has if anything become worse. Since 2000, we're talking about an actual anthrax attack; plans to set off cyanide and sarin bombs; more planned bombings of abortion clinics; and threats against federal judges. All emanating from either lone wolves or organized extremists from the far right.

I found the whole entry pretty thought provoking and I'm probably not doing a good job of coherence here (mmmmmmm, hops and barley

).

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE