Once again... a request for legitimate concerns... by 6ixStringJack

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Once again... a request for legitimate concerns...

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 23, 2025 23:31
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VIEWED: 1337
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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 4:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Trump has failed to lower costs. Now is the time to fight for it.

Where were you the last 4 years, Pocahontas?

Sit down and shut the fuck up. Americans were done listening to your stupid ass years ago.

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The Democrats are the party of Murder.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 6:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Because when China countered our tariffs by withholding rare earths, it fucked everything up including car manufacturing. Supplies need to be ensured for manufacturing to happen. It's axiomatic.

THGR:
It's not rare earths that's the problem. We have plenty. It's the infrastructure needed to create the final product that is the problem. Again, one more Trump fuckup.

Well, honestly IDK if the USA has enough deposits for all of its industries, altho apparently coal ash (which we have plenty of) is also a possible source.
https://scitechdaily.com/8-4-billion-enormous-cache-of-rare-earth-elem
ents-discovered-in-america/

The big issue with rare earths is extraction, which is incredibly messy. China supposedly has technology which makes extraction more cost effective. Even so, it creates hills of mine tailings and lakes of sludge.

There's a lot of research going on with rare earths extraction, but we're not there yet. So there's technological infrastructure required as well.

Point being, reindustrialization isn't going to happen in three years, it needs decades- long investment, probably needs to be targeted, and probably needs our government to either make preferential loans or take a majority stake in some businesses.

I don't see Trump's scattershot approach good for anything other than the lowest-hanging fruit.

And I'm OK with low- hanging fruit! It's better than nothing! But if we want to go any farther than that, we'll need an actual plan with actual focus.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 6:56 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:

Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution vests the power to lay and collect tariffs with Congress. The Founding Fathers intended for legislative oversight on taxation, tariffs, and related financial matters, viewing tariffs as strategic levers to be used with caution and prudence.

The President has limited latitude to act independently of Congress within the boundaries defined by existing legislation and constitutional principles.

This judicial oversight ensures that the President’s tariff-related powers align with congressional intent and constitutional mandates.

Trump with Tariffs, as with all else, ignores the laws and constitutional boundaries put in place to make sure no one individual wreaked havoc, like a bull in a China shop. Which is exactly what Trump did and is doing.

The problem, as I see it, isn't Trump, it's Congress. Trump is trying to solve a problem that previous Presidents AND CONGRESS let fester SO bad that we're willing to try anything to fix them.

So the solution isn't bashing Trump, it's getting Congress to get off its collective fat ass and start doing something other than playing partisan politics, digging for donations, and voting in shit that doesn't help.

If Democrats got ahead of Trump on SOLVING problems they'd get their constituency back.

Quote:
The terrible result of which is detrimental to America, tenfold.

First, it’s a tax on not just American businesses, but also on the taxpayer. Which is why it falls to congress. The president does not declare new taxes. He tells his party what he wants in the form of a budget, and the house and senate hash it out and vote on it.

We are the most powerful country in the world, or at least we were a few months ago.

Wrong. We have been slipping economically, financially, and militarily for decades now. I've been trying to tell you. You were so busy denying, you just now noticed that we're hip deep in shit.

Quote:
One reason was because we had friends. Allowing them to profit was a way of keeping them friends. These same friends would help us when we needed them too. Now, because of Trump, they hate us.

Our "friends“ in Europe are leeches. They can't help us. They can't even help themselves. Do you think they could defend themselves?

Quote:
If you or anyone else thinks we are going to see a resurgence of manufacturing anytime soon in America, wrong. It takes a decade to build the infrastructure needed.

Agreed

Quote:
Then, wages will be too high for anyone to profit. If Apple wanted to manufacture the iPhone here. It would take a decade to set up the infrastructure. Then it would cost 3,500 dollars per phone.

There's one solution to that: Corporations are just going to have to be satisfied with less profit. Why should everyone lose just so five people hold half of the world's wealth? If they don't like that deal, they can move to China. Or Russia. Or the EU.
/snicker

Quote:
Price hikes because of tariffs are going to make many businesses go under. And these same price hikes are going to cost the average person around 2,300 annually. Why, so Trump can give 2 trillion in tax cuts to the top .01 present.

Hey, I got a tax cut. Didn't you?

I don't think Trump declared tariffs just to lower taxes. You're mind reading again, and assuming motives. And taxes are a whole 'nother ball of yarn, I think, for another discussion.

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 7:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SIX, I'm not experiencing inflation like I did under Biden, thank goodness. But I haven't seen prices go down, either. At least not grocery, energy, and healthcare.

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 7:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

All I know is that the only person here who didn't get a tax cut last year for certain is me.

And the other two or three that most likely didn't, either because they're from out of the country and/or they are retired and it doesn't apply to their situation... I don't hear any of them bitching about anything.

I don't suppose that those who hate Trump would literally put their own money where their mouths were and not only refuse to take the tax cut, but also show everyone real faith in their convictions by making sure that the last 4 years worth of tax cuts that they benefited from were returned as well?

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The Democrats are the party of Murder.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 7:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SIX, I'm not experiencing inflation like I did under Biden, thank goodness. But I haven't seen prices go down, either. At least not grocery, energy, and healthcare.

I know you're too smart to not understand how inflation works, so I am going to assume we're well beyond that and you chose these three specifically because they can ebb and flow separate from the trending of most things they do include in their inflation figures.

I understand your frustration, but let me ask you a serious question...

When in your entire lifetime have you ever seen any meaningful reduction in the prices of grocery, energy and healthcare?

I don't know exactly how much older you are than I am, and I'm not going to tell you what my guess is because that's rude (:laugh), but I know that you've seen some shit that I never experienced several times before I was born. Whether you were just a kid or you were already in the workforce while they were going on, they were on par with the dot-com bubble bursting and/or 9-11 and/or the housing bubble bursting and the DOW being cut in half. I do not imagine you're anywhere close to being as old as my grandma was and remembering growing up when the adults in charge were still suffering PTSD from the depression.

But you've seen some shit...

When did prices ever go down after they were raised in any meaningful way?

What my brother went through for 6 months at the hospital, including the surgeries, 24/7 care, therapy and who knows how many scans, it cost my old man's insurance only $150k. This was brain surgery done by the so-called best in the country.

You spend a week in the hospital today for a bad case of food poisoning and they're going to hand you that same bill. What my brother went through would have cost MILLIONS, assuming that he could even get anywhere CLOSE to that level of care in 2025.

You've seen some shit, but I've seen some shit too. The only one of those three that I've ever seen come down in price in my entire life after the prices were raised was energy costs for your home/car. That's it. And there are so many external factors to those prices, up to and including politics and whoever is in charge of the current administration, that nobody could ever claim that energy prices went down because the economy was great with a straight face.

I'm hopeful that medical prices come down... especially pharmaceutical out of pocket expenses for American citizens. There's probably going to be years of litigation before that really starts happening. Even if Trump put down executive orders on prescription drug prices, anybody at any time could come in and reverse that, and you'd likely have just as many Republicans line up to fight it in court as you did Democrats on this issue.

The only way I ever expect food prices to come down, even a little and probably only temporary, is if fuel prices go down. They looked like they were for a while there, but then they all shot back up over $3/gal by me again, so... don't expect food prices to come down at all until those gas prices do. Especially for things like milk and eggs and cheese.

The Double Digit inflation that Joe Biden* left us all with is never erased. That was just more compound interest on top of the pile of compound interest that started compounding before most of us were born. The day Joe Biden* left office, the prices that were, were forever our new "normal" that will only inevitably get worse over time when our FED target rate is 2% on any "good" year. It hasn't been at or below 2% yet, which is still a problem. But it has been hanging under 3% for quite a while. At least the bleeding has mostly stopped now.

--------------------------------------------------

The Democrats are the party of Murder.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 7:50 PM

THG

Keep it real please

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Because when China countered our tariffs by withholding rare earths, it fucked everything up including car manufacturing. Supplies need to be ensured for manufacturing to happen. It's axiomatic.

THGR:
It's not rare earths that's the problem. We have plenty. It's the infrastructure needed to create the final product that is the problem. Again, one more Trump fuckup.

Well, honestly IDK if the USA has enough deposits for all of its industries, altho apparently coal ash (which we have plenty of) is also a possible source.

The big issue with rare earths is extraction, which is incredibly messy. China supposedly has technology which makes extraction more cost effective. Even so, it creates hills of mine tailings and lakes of sludge.

There's a lot of research going on with rare earths extraction, but we're not there yet. So there's technological infrastructure required as well.

Point being, reindustrialization isn't going to happen in three years, it needs decades- long investment, probably needs to be targeted, and probably needs our government to either make preferential loans or take a majority stake in some businesses.

I don't see Trump's scattershot approach good for anything other than the lowest-hanging fruit.

And I'm OK with low- hanging fruit! It's better than nothing! But if we want to go any farther than that, we'll need an actual plan with actual focus.

Rare earth minerals are essential components in a wide range of high-tech applications, including electronics, renewable energy, and defense technologies

Like I said, we need a decade minimum to build the infrastructure for so much of what we need. Hence, Trumps’ tariffs are killing America.

I've been saying this shit since before Trump got reelected. I believe I even posted a video by Peter Zeihan discussing this and tariffs. A video you and Gilligan made fun of.

T

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 7:53 PM

THG

Keep it real please

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SIX, I'm not experiencing inflation like I did under Biden, thank goodness. But I haven't seen prices go down, either. At least not grocery, energy, and healthcare.

You guys always forget to mention Biden was fixing what Trump broke.

T

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 8:07 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SIX, I'm not experiencing inflation like I did under Biden, thank goodness. But I haven't seen prices go down, either. At least not grocery, energy, and healthcare.

You guys always forget to mention Biden was fixing what Trump broke.

T

How so? Explain, in detail what that means. We want to hear specifics with actual facts and numbers to back it up.

And don't forget that your guy let in 10 Million+ illegal alien invaders in just 4 years. That has slowed to zero per month today.

If you ever want to even dream about swinging somebody's opinion your way on inflation and whose fault it was, you're going to have a really hard time doing it when so many other broken things have been fixed in the last 8 months. The only way that Democrats can win on the issue of the economy going forward is if our economy gets destroyed under Trump. Nothing you've contributed to the state we're in has been helpful to anyone up until this point either. Democrats and Republicans both may as well be equally culpable because neither party ever had the desire to fix anything they were all breaking along the way as long as they got theirs.

--------------------------------------------------

The Democrats are the party of Murder.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 8:09 PM

THG

Keep it real please

I see you want to discuss tariffs more comrade. I have no intention of going around in circles concerning tariffs and rare earth minerals. I've been saying before Trump got elected this would happen. You didn’t want to admit it; you just wanted to cut and paste shit about it without accepting the simple fact it was a crazy idea. You still don’t seem to get it. And I don't feel the need to convince you.

I thought this was your thread signym when I agreed to come here. Nope, it's Gilligan's. This discussion belongs in my "Trump destroys everything he touches." thread. So, put the next post, topic on the list, you want me to respond to there.

T

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 8:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
I see you want to discuss tariffs more comrade. I have no intention of going around in circles concerning tariffs and rare earth minerals. I've been saying before Trump got elected this would happen. You didn’t want to admit it; you just wanted to cut and paste shit about it without accepting the simple fact it was a crazy idea. You still don’t seem to get it. And I don't feel the need to convince you.

T

What you don't understand is I have no idea what the fuck you're even talking about right now, dude.

I'm not a mind reader. I don't know what makes you bitch and moan from day to day unless you use your big boy words.

You told me WHAT would happen?

I don't want to admit to WHAT?

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The Democrats are the party of Murder.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 9:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

SIX, I'm not experiencing inflation like I did under Biden, thank goodness. But I haven't seen prices go down, either. At least not grocery, energy, and healthcare.

THGR:
You guys always forget to mention Biden was fixing what Trump broke.

What did Trump break and how did he break it?

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 11:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
I see you want to discuss tariffs more comrade. I have no intention of going around in circles concerning tariffs and rare earth minerals. I've been saying before Trump got elected this would happen. You didn’t want to admit it; you just wanted to cut and paste shit about it without accepting the simple fact it was a crazy idea. You still don’t seem to get it. And I don't feel the need to convince you.

I have no idea WTF you're talking about.

For the MAJORITY of it's history, the USA imposed tariffs on imports, and for roughly the first 60 years it was almost the sole source of Federal revenue.
And America grew, and developed, and grew!

So what's so crazy about tariffs?

I know what you wrote: it will shut off imports, lead to higher prices, cause businesses to fail, and even if
production can be established in the USA, everything will be way more expensive.

But, it doesn't have to be that way.
For example, Apple pays China $500 to produce a phone that retails for $1200-$1500 in the USA. Maybe companies could produce and sell here, but with much less profit margin.

That would help solve the huge wealth gap here, and if Apple (and similar transnationals) didn't want to take the hit then some upstart national company could step in.

You can't revive an entire economy all at once, and there will ALWAYS be some resources that we'll have to trade for (cobalt, platinum, titanium etc) so there will always be items that we'll need to produce cost-competitively for trade.
I'm sure there are a few things we could produce or services we could provide at a cost and quality that would be competitive. But overall, with our natural resources we could be much more self sufficient.

But if we decide to reindustrialize I think we should start with one sector - say, steel- make sure we have all the raw resources and infrastructure lined up, and then block out raw steel and steel products (I-beams, washing machines etc) to make sure we have an ensured supply and market.

So I think tariffs are a good idea, but they have to be implemented the right way, and THAT'S where I think Trump is fucking up.

Quote:
SIX:

What you don't understand is I have no idea what the fuck you're even talking about right now, dude.

I'm not a mind reader. I don't know what makes you bitch and moan from day to day unless you use your big boy words.

You told me WHAT would happen?

Indeed

-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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Tuesday, September 23, 2025 11:31 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I hope I've explained my POV on tariffs, and also expressed your concerns adequately.

Next topic?

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

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