British Election Fever - How will you vote? by Zoot

I think "Election fever" might be over stating things a little since "Election Apaphy" is likely to prove quite a factor in this Election.
Speaking personally, I cant see any real difference at all between the three major parties. A friend of mine said many years ago that no matter who you vote for you still end up with "the Government".
I am a Socialist (the old fashioned kind) and since i believe Labour betrayed their socialist roots a long time ago and unless there is a real socialist candidate standing in my constituancy (unlikely), I probably wont vote at all.

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Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:06 PM

I do agree with you re the apathy thing and also the betrayal of socialist roots - Am an old socialist myself - However, as a woman I feel that I must vote - people died to get me the vote blah blah blah - I can't moan about the government if I don't get involved etc. etc. Think Labour are a massive sell out and that the only people who seem to stick to their guns a bit are the Lib Dems . . .

Although, having said that, heard Brown on the radio this morning and the man really can argue - v intelligent man - still not gonna vote for him tho . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Just wondering, is it a sure thing Blair will lead his party into this election ?

I remember reading that many in Labour were not exactly pleased with his kissing the American arse foreign policy.

I think the only reason the Liberal party here in Canada won the last election, was many in this country feel the conservative party would follow pretty much the same road as either Blair, or more likely your Torys. With the scandals and mismanagement the Liberals here have demonstrated in recent years, the only explaination I can offer to the continued public support is the popular view here is the conservatives are a bunch of sellouts and lackeys of the US. ( Mind you I refused to vote for either, fringe partys like the greens start to look much more appealing with these two choices )

BTW, where do Liberal Democrats stand on entering the EU ? I imagine that would have to be another major election platform.

Gino

How it goes is this:

the small group of intellectual middle Englanders do dissaprove of Blair's stance on Iraq - the rest of the UK don't care as long as it looks like Blair is gonna continue with not letting foreigners in (yuk!) and locking up anyone we don't like, terrorists, immigrants etc. without trial!!

Is v scary here at the moment - don't think Mr Blair or Charles Clark (Home Secretary) have heard of the Rule of Law . . .

The agreement is that Mr Blair will stay for the election but he has said he will step down sometime during the next parliament - the only remaining question being - who will take over . .. Very possibly Mr Brown (the Chancellor) but he is old Labour and the Blairites don't want that so its all to play for . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:11 PM

I find Blair difficult to stomach at the best of times. He seems to believe that he is somewhere between a President and a Monarch.
The idea that he can step down from power when he feels like it smacks a little of a Banana republic dictator stepping aside so that someone equally appaling can take over.
People are too easily blind-sided away from real issues like tax, unemployment, schools, the health service etc by pointless arguments about Fox hunting and how many Gypsies there are in Berkshire.
I do reluctantly agree with ZOOT on the voting thing though. My father allways said it should be compulsory so maybre I will try to stir myself. It's just that I feel almost any vote is a wasted one in my area.

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Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:21 PM

I agree with you reluctantly too about the wasted vote thing - hey I'll be voting in Windsor for God's sake and NO ONE but a Tory has ever taken that seat - but still gotta do it if only in support of all the other people round the world who can't vote freely!

God, but I sound disgustingly preachy, I agree!!

And I also agree that Blair has totally lost sight of what a Priminister is - is only chief minister not bloody head of state . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Friday, April 1, 2005 4:43 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Whatever happened to Robin Cook ? I thought he was going to make a run at party leader before this election ?

I'm sorry to hear things are going that way in Britain... any chance that Labour and the Torys will split the vote enough for someone else to take a block of seats ?

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Friday, April 1, 2005 5:08 AM

Not really much chance of anyone else getting a look in - Labour (and the Tories) can normally get votes by scaring the general populous that other more liberal parties will be soft on crime, thuggery, terrorism and immigration . . .

Robin Cook left the cabinet becuase he stuck to his guns over thinking Iraq was a bad idea and you can't really make a bid for leadership from the back benches - he's also way too principled to be leader of a party!!

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Friday, April 1, 2005 6:43 AM

Sadly Lord Such died so there is no more Monster Raving Loony Party. That's where I would have voted....

Sounds flipant I know but given the fact that the 'serious' political party leaders have abused the little trust they had I feel enclined to vote this way.

Most probably I'll vote Lib Dem too - so as my vote counts against the fascist right wing of Lab,Cons and BNP

a disgruntled
Somnambulist

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Friday, April 1, 2005 6:53 AM

So, so far we have a massive Lib Dem majority - 2 for Lib Dem and one non-voter . . . . So in a Firefly England (ah - imagine the bliss!) we would have no Mr Blair post 5 May!! Hurrah!!

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Friday, April 1, 2005 7:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
So, so far we have a massive Lib Dem majority - 2 for Lib Dem and one non-voter . . . . So in a Firefly England (ah - imagine the bliss!) we would have no Mr Blair post 5 May!! Hurrah!!

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

What a wonderous thought....

Oscar Wilde once said "Every state has the government it deserves"(words to that effect) - I fear he was right.

www.cirqus.com
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http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 AM

So ZOOT you're in the home counties too eh? I'm down here in Kent. 15mins from the Euro tunnel, should I need a quick escape :)
- Weird how politics takes hold isn't it? I vehemently refused politics in my younger years, but now I stay up and watch Question Time on BBC1 ~ just so I can watch politicians squirm under tricky questioning!

It's like a sport for me now

Laters
The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
For Pictures:
http://www.cirqus.com/lightfantastic.html

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Friday, April 1, 2005 10:42 AM

I know England is a small country but two Browncoats in Kent on the same thread is down right creepy.
I'm in Thanet in a Labour held constituency and we have just had a realy sickly-sweet DVD posted through our door pretending to be from a concerned neighbour but actually containing a film telling us how wonderfull life is since Dr. Ladyman (the local M.P.) took the seat, and oh by the way...vote labour.
I spent a lot of time active in the Labour party in the mid to late eighties when Ramsey McKinnock was in charge and the whole atmosphere of with-hunts and sell-outs left a very cinical and nasty taste in my mouth. Which, I suppose, is why I appear to be fence sitting now. I would love to stay true to my Labour principles but the Labour party I knew does'nt exist anymore. I could never bring myself to vote Tory and the Li-Dems are not a strong enough force to make a viable challenge. If only Dennis Skinner was leader, then we would see some action.
As for being a non-voter, I would't say I was a commited one. I would vote for the Socailist party if they were standing a candidate but otherwise i think i shall have to follow my conscience on the day.

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Friday, April 1, 2005 11:00 AM

He heeeehheeeee!! Gotta laugh when you're MP is called Ladyman - or is that just me??

I'd vote socialist too if there was such a thing - no point in voting Labour if you want to stay true to your socialist principles . . . but it does annoy me this "there's no point voting Lib Dem cos they'll never get a majority" - If everyone who says that just voted for them instead they'd get quite a reasonable percentage, I reckon . . . Every party, liberal, tory, labour has a low point at some time or other and they always seem to come back eventually . . .

Somnambulist - am v jealous of your nearness to a means of escape . . . I've seriosuly been thinking about emigrating and honestly, if we get identity cards, I'm either going to prison or going abroad . . . .

I can't speak any languages except ancient Greek (oh how useful) so that narrows it down to the colonies. Though about New Zealand, but its so far away from family adn all they seem to do is strenuous out door activity - eurgh! Far too healthy!! Plus I went to Australia for a wedding recently and its like the Stepford continent! Everyone conforms - its scary!

So its looking increasingly like Canada . . . but so near the US - erk!! Still, would get to see films first, I guess . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Friday, April 1, 2005 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
I know England is a small country but two Browncoats in Kent on the same thread is down right creepy.
I'm in Thanet in a Labour held constituency

Well what d'you know - it's a small 'verse after all :)

Thanet eh? How's things on the coast there?

Oh labour of old eh? Poor John Smith was looking like a reasonably principled leader until his death - Blair came in on the work Smith did... Real pity.

The main reason I conitnue to vote now is because I don't want what happened in France with 'Penne' getting in due to low turn-out....

But it is disheartening isn't it. Some of these guys I swear went to Smarm school! I thought michael howard was the biggest smarm of all and then this ledwood character comes along. Yikes!!! That guy freaks me out - then there's that redwood fellow. Crickey where do they fabricate these wacko's from....

As for Labour -well I think Mrs Thatch is probably sleeping quite comfortably thanks to them.

Watt Tyler anyone? Time for a modern day peasants Revolt!!!

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Friday, April 1, 2005 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Somnambulist - am v jealous of your nearness to a means of escape . . . I've seriosuly been thinking about emigrating and honestly, if we get identity cards, I'm either going to prison or going abroad . . . .

I can't speak any languages except ancient Greek (oh how useful) so that narrows it down to the colonies. Though about New Zealand, but its so far away from family adn all they seem to do is strenuous out door activity - eurgh! Far too healthy!! Plus I went to Australia for a wedding recently and its like the Stepford continent! Everyone conforms - its scary!

So its looking increasingly like Canada . . . but so near the US - erk!! Still, would get to see films first, I guess . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

I.D. cards. I'd forgotten about those!! They're going to happen y'know... It's just a question of time.

As for emmigrating I know what you mean. A few years ago I was going to go to Grenada (Still sort of a colony) to live, but a few complications resulted and I couldn't do it.... Now I'm thinking maybe Spain. But long term I do hope to get to Grenada. I did consider Canada too I must admit, but I think I'd like the sunnier way of life now. I've done just about all the dark winter nights I can take for one lifetime without going nuts!!!.

So ancient Greek eh? That's cool. Ok so it's not like you get to chit-chat with ancients down the pub, but It's kinda groovy. I used to speak Spanish and something called Guarani, but not anymore... I only understand snippets these days :( shame.

The
Somnambulist

www.cirqus.com
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Friday, April 1, 2005 11:54 AM

It's a strange view of the world that we get from Thanet. The local Rags even refer to it as "Planet Thanet" as in, "from another" I suppose.
If you read the national press you see a lot about Asylum seekers and protecting our borders but in Thanet something like £20 million a year comes into the local economy from foriegn students attending the English language shools. The towns are becoming more cosmopolitan and continental every year and people are starting to move here to live while commuting to work in France. So voting to kick out the foriegn devils is not really a good idea.
And ZOOT; the M.P.'s name is a corker isnt it? You just know that his nik-name at school had to be Ladyboy.
Actually there is such a thing as the Socialist Party, I'm kind of a sleeping member of it (in as much as i have'nt been to a meeting in ten years)so i'm a bit out of touch but they still send me a membership card every year. Jolly nice chaps those Socialists, very.. well.. social.

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Saturday, April 2, 2005 5:50 AM

Yup - I definitely reckon ancient languages are the way to go - I'm a classicist by training so I would say that - but I think its because I like languages - especially logical ones - but hate the embarrassment of being forced to speak in another language (inevitably badly) so I like ones which are written only and even if they are spoken (like Greek) no one really has the foggiest what they’d sound like!

I have a friend who makes it his business to learn a new dead language every year or so – so far he’s done, ancient Hebrew, Coptic, Sumarian and Etruscan (I think) . . . . All very admirable, but I think I’d start getting confused at some point – he’s a certified genius and I ain’t . . .

Sorry – this conversation has diverged somewhat from politics!!

Identity cards scare the living breath outta me!! Gotta say – is the age old quote I heard somewhere about no one in Holland in 1940 being bothered when identity cards were introduced – then, of course, the Jews started being identified by them . . the rest is, as they say, history . . . Sounds like I’m a hysteric, I know, but heard Mr Blunkett on Money Box (Radio 4) say today that elections and changing governments is bad for the economy – only a short step I reckon to “hey, guys, lets dispense with elections, you know it makes sense – and it’ll boost the economy if the government’s more stable” . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Saturday, April 2, 2005 8:20 AM

ZOOT...Wow that is ominous.... I wonder what it is about politics that brings out the worst in people - can it really be as basic as a lust for power?

As much a I am fearful about British politics I don't think we're yet at a state of a government removing elections altogether but I agree, his attitude does scare somewhat... Especially given their track record of control and attempted control of the masses.

Hmmm

As for your training in the classics - I think it's great! I studied Latin very briefly at Junior school, oh a long time ago now, but even so I'm frequently amazed - on a daily basis - how often I come across residual latin in our language !

More often than not it plays well into my hands when playing a quiz, like trivial pursuits or balderdash.

oldenglandry Though I live in Kent I've only been to Thanet once ~ with art college to go around drawing around the town. I like the fact it is becoming cosmopolitan. Of course its easy for me to say that from here, but have you been affected by that much yourself ?

The
Somnambulist

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Saturday, April 2, 2005 12:35 PM

I host foreign students in my home for a good part of the year so I am affected in a pretty direct sort of way. A lot of people in the area around the school do the same, some of the larger houses hosting two, three or even four at a time (we have three at the moment).
When I was young my home town had a fishing fleet and a very limited night life (pubs, discos). Now there are cafe-bars, micro breweries, international restuarants and the like. On the downside manufacturing industry is vertualy nil so in the last thirty years a pretty much 180 degree turn from manufacturing to service industry has taken place. Is this a good thing? I'm not sure.
Am I going off topic here? if so, my apologies.

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
I host foreign students in my home for a good part of the year so I am affected in a pretty direct sort of way. A lot of people in the area around the school do the same, some of the larger houses hosting two, three or even four at a time (we have three at the moment).
When I was young my home town had a fishing fleet and a very limited night life (pubs, discos). Now there are cafe-bars, micro breweries, international restuarants and the like. On the downside manufacturing industry is vertualy nil so in the last thirty years a pretty much 180 degree turn from manufacturing to service industry has taken place. Is this a good thing? I'm not sure.
Am I going off topic here? if so, my apologies.

I like off topic - its interesting to see where a conversation goes - down curious little cul-de-sacs etc. .. .

How old are these foreign students? Must be quite interesting having new faces all the time - but I can imagine that if they're hormonal teenagers with dificulty communicating it could get old quite quickly . . .

In my home town we've never seen a micro-brewery or an international restaurant - everything is directed at tourists and shuts around 10 p.m. - speaking as someone who for many years lived in London and got used to the ability to call out for a pizza at three a.m. and, of course, Pret - I find it all rather retro and scary . . . Plus I can remember finding it odd when visiting other towns in my youth that the majority of people walking the streets were not neat little crocodiles of Japanese tourists led by a woman in a head scarf waiving a furled umbrella!!

Windsor is a mightly odd town!!

I'm not sure whether the turn from manufacturing to service industries is a good thing but guess a lot of these workplaces are a lot cleaner and healthier (except KFC) and you gotta do what you gotta do to make a living!! Still a nice bit of traditional grimer industries is always heartening!!

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 3:23 AM

WREN

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
I know England is a small country but two Browncoats in Kent on the same thread is down right creepy.

I am Kentish born and lived there for twenty-nine years, the last four were in Thanet (Westgate-On-Sea)! I had to move to Lincolnshire three years ago due to work.

I have no idea how I will vote, but I will definately not vote labour. They have no respect for the citizens of this country and seem to think we are idiots. My families quality of life has suffered since they came into power.

I'm waiting to see how the the Lib Dems and Tories stand on taxes, NHS, etc.

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 12:21 PM

Let's see.
The youngest student we had was 11 (Chinese girl, one of 4 that stayed at the same time), the oldest in her mid fifties (a Thai teacher)and all points in between.
Most of them have been great, espescially the Japanese. They seem to come to England because we have a history and i apreciate anyone who is interested in our history. Actually we had a phone call earlier this evening from a Japanese girl who stayed with us last year. She phoned from Tokyo just to celebrate the fact that it was the aniversary of her coming to our house. The Japanese take politeness to an altogether different level.
We have had the odd stroppy one but all in all its been a good experience and has'nt got old yet. It's also wierdly gratifying when we have one that cries when she leaves because at least we know that she has been happy.
Getting back on topic slightly it occured to me yesterday why my own personal apathy was becoming so intense. I think a big reason is that I am becomming (dare I say it?)repulsed by the slimeyness of our politicians more than i ever was in the past, even in my active days. Even if i was a believer in Labours policies I am very much turned off by the fixedly smiling baby-kissers that are forcing themselves to ascociate with joe-public just so they can shaft us for the next four years.
We know they are all lying so why do we let them get away with it?

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 1:03 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

It appears the election will be delayed somewhat...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4406453.stm

Likely to no great effect

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Sunday, April 3, 2005 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
It appears the election will be delayed somewhat...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4406453.stm

Likely to no great effect

I know!! Who'd have thought we'd have a papist for priminister?!?

As politics is supposed to have NOTHING to do with religion - especially catholicism (people have been beheaded for less!) am not sure why its necessary to delay the announcement jsut 'cos an 84 year old chose to kick the bucket . . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Monday, April 4, 2005 11:54 AM

And my invite to Charles and Camilla's wedding will be worth a fortune now it's got the wrong date on it.

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Monday, April 4, 2005 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
And my invite to Charles and Camilla's wedding will be worth a fortune now it's got the wrong date on it.

He he he!! Very true! But am slightly annoyed myself as will now not be able to go in to my local town to shop on Saturday as usual - as Windsor'll be full of people trying to see the royal re-wedding . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 11:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zoot:
Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
And my invite to Charles and Camilla's wedding will be worth a fortune now it's got the wrong date on it.

He he he!! Very true! But am slightly annoyed myself as will now not be able to go in to my local town to shop on Saturday as usual - as Windsor'll be full of people trying to see the royal re-wedding . . .

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

Perhaps there wont be as many as you might think, the apathy over the wedding is almost as high as that for the election. Still I might try to sneak in so that when they get to the "just cause or impediment" bit I can claim to be Charlies love child by Mama Cass.

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Tuesday, April 5, 2005 10:15 PM

Superb! You know, it coulda happened . . ..

Okay, I'm lost, I'm angry, and I'm
armed.

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Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:15 AM

MRSKBORG

You know, I'm in a real quandry about this. You see, being in Scotland we now have our own parliament and basically the numpties in Edinburh now make all the decisions, with Westminster retaining control over stuff like Social Security, Defense etc. But I still get to vote in this election on issues such as health, education etc in England. Add to that the majority of folks in this particular region still have the "my dad voted for Labour, so I'm voting Labour" mentality.......these people have no thoughts of their own. Personally I would never vote Tory, trust me they are pretty despised up here, and in all honesty I cannot stand Mr Blair. So where does that leave me? it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what I vote because Labour will still win this constituency (reshuffled borders and all) so I have to use my vote tactically, except theres no proportional representation as yet in the General Election, unlike up here where there is a small amount. Voted Green as a protest vote last time and they got a few seats in the Scottish Parliament. Liberal Democrat, SNP or Green, mmmmmmmmmmm You see my problem.

"This movie may be a beautiful butterfly, but I loved that damn caterpillar." Joss Whedon.

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Wednesday, April 6, 2005 11:57 AM