If you were in charge... by SoupCatcher

The very first thing that I would concentrate on were I in charge would be education. I mean, there are plenty of random things I would like to see modified, but this strikes me as our country's (the USA) biggest problem.

Education needs to be 1) better overall and 2) it *must* be as equal as possible for every child.

Following these simple guildlines, I would make schools a federal matter. I would do this for two reasons: there are states that are clearly failing in their responsibilities toward schools and in a time when we are trying to close the gap with regards to minorities and poorer families, it only makes sense to me that the playing field should be according to one standard.

Funding for schools should be emphasized (this would be juxtaposed to my changing the way this government is allowed to waste money) and teachers should be paid according to their worth (also according to a national standard), not just based only on test scores, but on performance in the classroom.

Taxes would still form the bulk of school funding but it would be evenly redistributed, so that wealthy neighborhoods have the same schools as poor neighborhoods. As soon as was fiscally possible, all schools would be held to as high of standards as we can go.

Intelligence must be emphasized. I don't mean that the slower children should be put down, but there is a definite lack of respect for intelligence in many places. Younger children are underestimated; they are spoon-fed altered and black and white "facts" until they are well into high school. Children have a natural curiousity that should be embraced, not supressed. They should go through math and science quicker, excellence in writing should be a source of pride, and they should not learn history again and again, but that history, like any area of study, is fluid and has holes and bias, etc. I believe if students were challenged early, they would continue to crave challenges in whatever they are interested in and school would be less of a place for babysitters and more of a place for those who want to learn.

If you're going to make a student take a language, make them take it early. Children are able to be bilingual much easier early in their lives and this would serve to develop their ability to think rather than be seen as some attempt to be cross-cultural by paying good money in college to learn something that quite possibly will never be used (I took Latin, for example, ha ha).

A level playing field and a higher standard of intelligence would do many things in my mind. Students would be more interested in just about everything during their school years. Students who did not want to attend college wouldn't have to if their field of interest wasn't something that required a college degree because a high school diploma (hell, elementary and junior high diplomas) would be something to be respected.

Affirmative action could be done away with.

Our political leaders, our business leaders would all be held to a higher standard because our people themselves would take pride in their own higher standards.

Things such as Intelligent Design would disappear because things such as the holes in evolutionary theory would be taught to and embraced by students as a continuation of a fluid science and a challenge and potentially someplace to put their faith, if they decide to within their own life, not because it is suggested to them as a "science" by a teacher's personal belief.

I know I had more (I've developed a lot of gripes with the school system over the years and I won't even get into the whole ADD and No Child Left Behind thing) but I think that's good enough for now. Plus, I'm hungry. :D

Anyway, I'm a soon-to-be junior at the University of Illinois and that would be my first thing to do if I were in charge.

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:23 AM

CAITE

Well, seeing as how I am a teacher, I would have to say that changes in education would be my main thing. I live in California, and (in my humble opinion) Governor Swartzanegger has all but completely ruined education here. As is the case everywhere, teachers in California get paid bumpkiss in comparison to the work that they do. Also, all together too many schools are being shut down because the Governor has reneged on promises that he made. Students do not have the textbooks that they need to learn, and teachers do not have the supplies that they need to teach. Lastly, we have a ghastly Exit Exam now for High School that was not created by educators, but was instead created by a bunch of bureaucrats who don't have a realistic idea of what's going on in the classroom.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 12:42 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Looks like fun. I'll try to keep mine to one or two sentence descriptions, and assume that they can be implemented somehow, rather than having to do the "...and we can fund that Universal Heallthcare and still pay teachers more by..." thing. These are in no order of presidence.

1. Decriminalize or legalize drugs. And prostitution, with appropriate controls for the protection of workers (unions?).

2. Spend more of school funding on students and teachers and less on administration. (Washington D.C. spends around 50% on admin(!), per George Will's column in todays Post.)

3. News media must publish statements of their owner's, operator's and reporter's political views. They must be available for polygraph testing at any time to verify their statements.

4. Politicians at the national level cannot be employed after their terms end. They must retire and will be paid their highest government salary, adjusted for inflation, for life. This also applies to any military officer ranking Colonel (or equivalent) and above. Compliance will be enforced.

5. I'm tempted by the idea that only people who have served a term of national service, civilian or military, can vote, hold government jobs, or run for office.

6. Anybody can marry anyone, or any group of people, in any arrangement. Such marriages would be recognised by all state and federal governments and provide the same rights and responsibilities as currently. Statutory rape laws could still apply, based entirely on age, not gender or orientation.

7. Make civil liability law a non-profit business.

8. Get rid of 99% of gun control laws.

9. Make obtaining a drivers license much more difficult, with actual driving skill being emphasized.

10. Kinda off the wall, but... Only people who pay individual income tax (and file on time) can vote for president. Every four years the tax forms have check boxes for all qualified candidates. IRS tabulates the votes and announces the winner April 15.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
4. Politicians at the national level cannot be employed after their terms end. They must retire and will be paid their highest government salary, adjusted for inflation, for life. This also applies to any military officer ranking Colonel (or equivalent) and above. Compliance will be enforced.

I'm confused and curious. Why do this and what would it accomplish?

Quote:
5. I'm tempted by the idea that only people who have served a term of national service, civilian or military, can vote, hold government jobs, or run for office.

Besides the fact that I disagree that you can limit who can vote in any way besides age and being a citizen, what would you consider civilian national service and how do you reconcile the large population of this country (with regards to how large a military we can fund, etc)? What would you tell someone like me, who has thus far been spending her whole life going through the education system toward a Ph.D. and a research career who has neither the time nor the desire to do national service, but still has an interest and a responsibility in the future of this country and its politics?

Hm...run on sentence anyone?

I also happen to disagree about gun control, but I'm sure you've had that argument many times. I'm just curious as to what end you had in mind by getting rid of that much control.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 3:07 PM

* editted to add (since the previous post and mine crossed paths). Kirikoli: I was hoping we could withhold judgement for a bit longer just to get a large number of stuff on the table. Otherwise, we'd probably degenerate into a debate on one or two points. Or maybe start another thread to flesh out specific proposals? Just a suggestion.

Geezer: Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. Blue sky concepts. Implementation, not so much.

Just a few more.

1. If you hire illegal immigrants, you donate the difference in pay to the city/county in which you're operating.

2. All registered political parties are provided with access to equipment, and the trained personnel to operate that equipment, so they can create content to be broadcast on the public airwaves during major election cycles (maybe 30 minutes per network per party per week starting a month before the election).

3. First manned scientific mission to Mars happens before 2050.

4. Erik Estrada is not allowed to do mini-infomercials for scrubland (okay, that one was just plain petty

).

5. Corporations lobbying for changes that result in increased profits should at least have to spend an equivalent amount on lobbying (not sure I'm phrasing this well, it just seems like donating millions to get tens of billions in increased profits is a little out of synch - if we're going to be corrupt, at least be competently corrupt - I'm reminded of Bogart's line to Lorre at the beginning of Casablanca).

6. Threats against the judiciary are treated the same as threats against the President.

Just what ran through my head today. I'll keep thinking.

* editted once again to add a few more:

7. Emphasizing the National part of National Guard.

8. Concepts revert to the public domain after a generation (if you can't come up with a new concept after 10-20 years, you really aren't trying).

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 3:33 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
4. Politicians at the national level cannot be employed after their terms end...

I'm confused and curious. Why do this and what would it accomplish?

I figure it would reduce the number of legislators and Pentagon brass who give sweetheart deals to goverment contractors, lobbys, law firms, etc. expecting to land big lobbying or consultant jobs post-federal employment.

Quote:
5. I'm tempted by the idea that only people who have served a term of national service, civilian or military, can vote, hold government jobs, or run for office.

Besides the fact that I disagree that you can limit who can vote in any way besides age and being a citizen, what would you consider civilian national service and how do you reconcile the large population of this country (with regards to how large a military we can fund, etc)? What would you tell someone like me, who has thus far been spending her whole life going through the education system toward a Ph.D. and a research career who has neither the time nor the desire to do national service, but still has an interest and a responsibility in the future of this country and its politics?

The national service idea is from Robert Heinlein's book Starship Troopers. Ole Bob had a way of sneaking his philosophy into a riproaring story. The general idea is that if you aren't willing to invest some of your life in working for your country, you don't have enough interest to use your vote wisely. You, for example, could spend a couple of years working at your research specialty for the government while having your basic needs met. Others might be teacher's assistants or construction workers in national parks or trash collectors or soldiers. Whatever fits, and no one who wants to volunteer and can understand the oath to join can be turned down.

Quote:
I also happen to disagree about gun control, but I'm sure you've had that argument many times. I'm just curious as to what end you had in mind by getting rid of that much control.

I'm in favor of getting rid of prior restraint controls in general. Not allowing me to have a gun just because I MIGHT shoot someone with it seems a pretty pessimistic and repressive way to go. It denies my ability to make correct decisions. If I commit a crime, punish me, but don't restrict my behavior if I'm doing no harm.

But let's hear your suggestions. Another point of view is always interesting.

SoupCatcher:
I'll try and not get bogged down in argument. I was just clarifying in this case. Keep 'em coming.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:12 PM

Sorry, Soupcatcher. Even though I couldn't resist throwing my opinion around, my intention was not to judge but to be ask for clarification. Your answers, Geezer, were very well thought out, and I agree in principle, if not in the method. So I'll throw my two cents in as a counter-point and to add to my list of things I would change if I were in charge.

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

I figure it would reduce the number of legislators and Pentagon brass who give sweetheart deals to goverment contractors, lobbys, law firms, etc. expecting to land big lobbying or consultant jobs post-federal employment.

I agree that this is something that needs to be checked, but I don't think you can deny anyone the right to work and, indeed, to do so would in some cases be a denial of perfectly good talent, say in the case of a politician who used to be a teacher or a doctor. After their term is over, they can still contribute to the community.

In my opinion, the fact that federal employees do give deals that may not be good for the country or the people for their own benefit is corruption, plain and simple. Just because these people are in charge doesn't mean they have a free pass to provide loopholes for themselves, which is of course exactly what they have been doing. We, as a country, need to simply stop standing for it. We need to demand that our leaders are held accountable for their actions.

Sounds idealistic, right? But I believe a more intelligent population will inevitably have more interest in their government (it is theirs after all) and if the media would start doing its job...

Quote:
The national service idea is from Robert Heinlein's book Starship Troopers. Ole Bob had a way of sneaking his philosophy into a riproaring story. The general idea is that if you aren't willing to invest some of your life in working for your country, you don't have enough interest to use your vote wisely. You, for example, could spend a couple of years working at your research specialty for the government while having your basic needs met. Others might be teacher's assistants or construction workers in national parks or trash collectors or soldiers. Whatever fits, and no one who wants to volunteer and can understand the oath to join can be turned down.

I like that idea. Enforced military or community service for a whole population always seemed so generic to me, but if you could somehow personalize your experience...it's an interesting thought.

I still wouldn't deny people the right to vote (there are time scales to think about...like I, for instance, won't be out of school until I'm like, oh god like 26 *cries*) but there could be other incentives...such as simply making it mandatory and osctrasizing people who didn't want to be bothered. I would only bring this about when many, many other problems in the country had been stabalized though.

Quote:
I'm in favor of getting rid of prior restraint controls in general. Not allowing me to have a gun just because I MIGHT shoot someone with it seems a pretty pessimistic and repressive way to go. It denies my ability to make correct decisions. If I commit a crime, punish me, but don't restrict my behavior if I'm doing no harm.

But let's hear your suggestions. Another point of view is always interesting.

I agree in principle that you have the right to be responsible for yourself and make your own decisions. This reminds me of a conversation I had not too long ago about the merits of making students wear security tags that alert the teachers as to who is in the classroom and who is not. My objection to this (and the inevitable tracing of a student's every move even though technology now only allows them to be followed from classroom to classroom) is not the usual privacy issue, but the fact that it takes responsibility away from both students and teachers.

You can't tag a student just in case they might not show up to class. That student needs to learn that they have a responsibility to attend school and that not attending has serious consequences (not just detention, but their grades should be forefeit and that should be a big deal). At the same time, they need to know that they have the right NOT to do something wrong...that they have a choice to make and that choice is whether or not to behave responsibly.

But guns are a different issue for one simple reason: I have the right not to be in danger. Giving everyone in the country the right to make the correct decision is not logically followed by everyone making the correct decision. The consequence of this in the case of guns is more likely than not that I, or some other innocent passerby, is going to get shot. I am willing to risk getting run over by an irresponsible driver because I know that there is a definite use for cars and that people are licensed and that there are things I can do to prevent that. So I give up my right to be completely safe from cars or heavy machinery or whathaveyou.

But I like my right not to be shot. There is no good reason why random people should own and handle guns and although I would love to give you personally the right to make your own decision to be responsible, no one can say that giving everyone that right can coincide with everyone else's right not to be gunned down.

So, in conclusion, in addition to fixing education, I would outlaw guns in civilian cases (yes, entirely, don't even bring them into the country), make federal employees completely accountable before and after their employment (no more lax punishments, no loopholes, no money changing hands) with the public as judge, jury and, executioner, I'd kick the media in the ass, and maybe eventually enact some sort of service to the country.

And now to do my homework. :D

Edit: Just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, whenever I say something like "a more intelligent population would be more interested in government" or whatever, I'm not calling you or anyone dumb if you don't care about politics. I'm simple expounding on my idea that we could all benefit from a better education system (unless you're a genius ;)) and that better education would lead to people having better jobs, things being more efficient, the whole country getting better economically, socially, etc...just that there would be less apathy in general and it would cascade throughout our lives.

So no one yell at me. Even though I think lots of people are dumb (I go to a party college *rolls eyes*), I will not intentionally be insulting anyone.

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:19 PM

JADEHAND

Ok, I'll play along. Here are some simple fixes I've thought about for awhile, doesn't mean they're perfect, I'm not.

1) Make people afraid to commit crimes. In the US [it seems] criminals have more rights than their victims. Free room and board, sit around and watch TV all day and sue the state you are incarcerated in if you aren't treated like a king.
[Ok, slightly exaggerated] Chain Gangs. Work off your debt to society. Prison is supposed to be an unhappy place, not a resort.

2) Yeah fix the school system. Paying teachers more is a start, but the whole system needs an overhaul. You can't make a teacher's/administrator's pay based on the performance of the students. Some students don't want to learn. The result would be something like the movie "Pump Up The Volume", students that were at risk of not doing well, would simply be removed from the system. Therefore, I would divide the schools into at least 2 areas. Acedemic and vocational. You're a good student bound for college, or at least want to be? Acedemic. You already know you don't want to go to college? You want to open your own auto shop/ flower shop [these are neccesary things too and no less important than more acedemic pursuits, no offense is intended] or other? attend the classes that will help you do that. In other words make High schools more like college (or the choose your own adventure books :) )

3) Drugs. a large percentage of crime is related to the buying and selling of illegal substances or getting the money to buy them. Ok, legalize and regulate pot. Increase the twinkie tax. pay off the national debt from people with "the munchies". [most of this is just in fun, so don't take it too seriously, though it might work]
we'd also have to make the penalties severe for offenses while Under the Influence. see point 1. yeah you can smoke it, you can't drive. DUI, it's not just for alcohol anymore.

4) politics: At least 3, if not more like 5-6, Viable "parties". the 2 party system is broken and they know it. More time/money is spent telling us why to not vote for the other guy, than telling us why we should vote for the speaking canidate. [both sides do this] And as mentioned above. Lie detectors! more people might watch the debates if after every statement we pan to the guy at the lie detector, who whilst looking at the paper makes a mark on it, looks up, and shakes his head. Fun!

ok, I might be done. sorry i'm tired and not thinking clearly.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 6:39 PM

Whoot chain gangs! Yes! haha

This is kinda a crazy, out there thing, but has anyone else ever considered profit caps on like entertainment and sports events? Like if a movie makes a certain profit margin, the rest has to go to the government or charity or something...same thing could be applied to things like Wal-Mart. lol

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:28 PM

No worries, Kirikoli. I jumped the gun anyways by misinterpreting your request for clarification.

To riff off some things and add others.

1. This is on a similar line to lie detectors. One idea I've been rolling around in my head for a while (it's kind of turned into a fantasy pet project of mine - right up there with building a unisex Norplant implanting device for when I'm feeling particularly irritated with people - but that's another topic

) is a political talking heads show that would help cut through the bullshit. I think I've typed about it before on the board. Half of the show would be devoted to two guests presenting their competing points of view. Headset microphones. Real time calculation of how long a speaker has talked. Microphone cuts out when you've used up your allotted time (so if you try to talk over the other person, it only works for so long). The second half of the show would be a dissection of the two arguments (logic, rhetoric, factual accuracy) using big whiteboards and identifying fallacies, etc. Each person is then graded at the end. Every time someone goes on a show their composite grade is updated and available to anyone interested.

2. Going along with the theme of getting citizens more engaged. Something like a conservation corps (as has already been mentioned). And maybe having a requirement of high school seniors that they sit in on jury deliberations. I'm not quite sure where I'm going with that one. Something along the lines of: taxes, jury duty, and obeying the laws as the main things we ask of citizens (with voting being a hoped for behavior).

3. A strong national science and engineering research component (Of course, my first priority is to make sure there are plenty of jobs for engineers

). Nuclear power generation. Water desalination projects. Wind power generation (maybe more vertical axis turbines). Tidal power generation (salt water turbines). Stuff like that.

4. The stock options that CEOs (and other high level executives) receive as part of their benefits packages could not be cashed in for 10-15 years. This is just to prevent executives from making decisions that have short term positive changes in stock prices but hamstring the company in the long term.

5. Some kind of increased mileage tax for freight transporters who are based out of the country. This stems from the huge increase in truck traffic that I've seen since NAFTA (at least on the 5 in California) and the subsequent deterioration to the highway. It seems like they just finish a section and they have to start patching it again.

6. Political districting is carried out using finite element analysis mesh construction techniques.

I'll think of some more things that bug me later but I'm really enjoying what you all are coming up with.

* editted to add: Oh. I forgot one of my favorites. I've always joked that if I ran for President my slogan would be, "Nobody sleeps alone."

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Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:45 PM

SGTGUMP

Here's one I've been thinking of for a few months;

Whenever a citizen registers to vote, he gets a small remote control with one red button on it. Then about 20 minutes after a president's inauguration he is taken in for a minor surgery to implant a small explosive device in the base of his skull. When, I’d say, 85% of all the red buttons are being pushed at the same time, the president’s skull-bomb goes off and we get a new president.

I think the president’s vocabulary and pronunciation would improve overnight. I made the number 85% because I'm sure about 40% would have their button taped down all the time.

edit:

Also, "The Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord"
http://omega.med.yale.edu/~pcy5/misc/overlord1.htm

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Monday, April 11, 2005 2:13 AM

GLOWYRM

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtgump:
Here's one I've been thinking of for a few months;

Whenever a citizen registers to vote, he gets a small remote control with one red button on it. Then about 20 minutes after a president's inauguration he is taken in for a minor surgery to implant a small explosive device in the base of his skull. When, I’d say, 85% of all the red buttons are being pushed at the same time, the president’s skull-bomb goes off and we get a new president.

ok, so far this has all been american, but hey, us aussies(pronounced oz-zees not uh-cees) are just as creativly flatulent

...and yes i did mean that!!

i love the idea about the skull bombs, but can we expand that to include the heads of state, political party leaders,religious leaders and anyone else who wields obscene ammounts of power e.g. ronald mcdonald.??? now THAT would make the world a far better place!

i too would do great things for education but in contrast i would supplythe 'behind the scenes' workers(cleaners, maintenance personelle, grounds keepers etc.)a pay rise too. here in australia these people get one pay rise for every three or four+ that the teachers get...not very fair huh?

aged care, mental health and chilcare would get immediate injections of funds, closely followed by a huge push for regional and rural health and then an extra bit for all health... this would be accumulative so a rural aged care facility would recieve all three(do you think i have a health care thing happening??)

wages would be set at a 'universal benchmark' so a teacher/doctor/scientist/whatever would get the same rate of pay in nicuragua as he/she would in england or elsewhere in the world. benchmarks would be set for each individual occupation...

i also have a theory about national service and unemployment, here goes... stick with me on this one folks i think it has a great twist on both situations.

say ms. w has been unemployed for twelve months after completing the minimum requirement of education(in aus you can leave at 16)at this point ms. w would have an assessment to see what would be the best way of making her employable... be it more education or training, becoming a volunteer, starting an apprenticeship or traineeship, or...here it comes... national service.

after a minimum of six months of 'bootcamp'style basic training another shot would be given at the 'real world'...or they may choose to go into full time millitary service.

the same thing would apply to someone retrenched or unemployed for other reasons (other than genuine disability or age related issues)

i would advocate stay-at-home-parents for the first five years of a childs life(or until the youngest child is five)and no differentiation would be made between mothers or fathers.

extra support would be given to relatives (other than biological or adoptive parents)who have the custody/care of children up to the age of 18.

wow... i realy let this go didnt i?

my total pie in the sky, all time favorite wish would to be seeing ALL people, regardless of age, race, colour, creed, religion or geographical location living well above the poverty line.

yay me!!

Quote:
"glowyrm has finished now"

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Monday, April 11, 2005 6:03 AM

1. I forgot my personal agenda! Come on, everyone in charge has one...which is part of the problem...but at least mine will benefit people who are not me.

I would tear NASA down and build it back up from scratch, putting in place extremely strict rules that prevent all forms of political gain that can be had by messing with NASA's mission and/or funds.

NASA's new mission: every single move they make, every dollar they spend would be for the purpose of scientific gain ONLY. There would be no instances of things like Hubble being wasted for a political move by CERTAIN UNNAMED PRESIDENTS to say stupid things like it would be either SAFE, COST-EFFECTIVE, or WORTH IT IN ANY WAY to go back to the moon or *laughs* Mars.

Trust me people, it's not going to happen any time soon and to divert not only funds, but practically all of NASA's resources and attention to something like that just so, if they do pull off some haphazard mission in the future, that unnamed president can claim credit...it makes me want to punch things oh so very hard.

2. Anyone is allowed to marry anyone (but not anything) and in any number, however, marriage licenses are subject to review when a) people under the age of 20 want to get married and b) anyone wants to marry more than one person. This review will not include denying anyone on the basis of race, religion, gender, etc, but in the case of young people, they must present a form of fiscal responsibility and not spur of the moment mentality and in the case of marriages of groups, it must be ascertained that one individual is not coercing the others and doing some sort of perverse collecting of wives or husbands. All parties must be free to agree to the marriage without intimindation.

3. Abortions are open to anyone; partial-birth abortions are banned in all cases.

Edit: Open to anyone until the third trimester and partial-birth abortions may have one exception: when it is clear that both mother and baby will die and a partial could save the mother. I dunno if that happens, but just in case...

4. Pregnant teenagers who did not first file an intent to become pregnant, give birth to and raise their children up to five years in a specialized clinic where they are judged to be fit for parenthood, as well as forced to do community service in exchange for an environment in which to raise their children. Having accidental children as a teen is severely frowned upon.

5. The proper use of contraceptives is taught in schools.

6. Religion is further removed from schools and politics. Schools are allowed to have religious decorations during holidays and sing religious songs only if students are allowed to refuse participation and if a student of a minority religion wishes to put up decorations or sing songs or other such activities that do not require the direct participation in any one religion, the teacher must make an equal opportunity for them to do so even if it is just one student. If there is not enough time for these activities, all religions must lose equal time. And of course, these activities in general should be kept to a minimum.

The words "under God" must be removed from the pledge, "In God We Trust" removed from currancy, and the president (I can't stress this enough) must be sworn into office on the Constitution, not the Bible.

Legislation suspected of having a religious backing will come under review.

7. Schools will not teach Intelligent Design, nor place stickers saying that evolution as just a theory. It *is* just a theory and students will be made to understand that distinction not just with regards to evolution, but to all sciences and they will understand that being a theory does not at all negate its validity, nor does having gaps in said theory make the entire science invalid. However, they will be free to place their faith within those gaps if they so choose and even discuss this in school, as long as the teacher condones both sides of any debate.

8. Loopholes in everything (taxes, bankruptcy laws, environmental regulations, etc.) will be reviewed and if they are corrupt, they will be closed.

9. The use of roads through national parks and reserves will not longer permit loggers entry into these areas.

10. Companies will be required to hire overseas at the same wages they give here or they will face penalties via new taxes. Illegal immigrants will be cracked down on, and will not be hired at dirt cheap wages.

11. The national language will be declared english (or Spanish or Latin for all I care) just to ensure the ease of communication for all.

12. Fox will be required to cancel five of its reality tv shows for every good shows it cancels and must add a list of the good shows cancelled to its logo.

13. The drinking age will be lowered to 18, as it's silly that you can vote about the future of the country, but can't be trusted with a beer. However, penalties for drunk driving and drunk public behavior will be more severely punished. In fact...

14. As someone else said, all things will be more severely punished. Laws will be enforced to the max for criminal offenses and prisons will be turned into secure factories where inmates work on whatever they are fit to work on.

15. The judicial system will be slightly revamped to avoid corruption by the rich. CEOs, corporations, celebrities and both (like Martha Stewart) will not be able to throw money at things if they are caught breaking they law.

Phew, ok, I think I'm done for now. I think that covers must of the more controversial issues. :D And again, just my opinion and not intended to insult anyone.

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Monday, April 11, 2005 7:19 AM

Mine is simple. It all begins and ends with money.

Make the most hazardous or important jobs pay the best.
Teachers, firemen, soldiers make 100,000/yr
CEO's, stock brokers, civil employees make 50,000/yr
McDonald's workers make 25,000/yr
Lawyers make minimum wage.

100% tax on luxury items, NO OTHER TAX

And no politician may, under penalty of death, recieve ANY money besides his PAYCHECK!!!

The closet dictator Chrisisall

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Monday, April 11, 2005 10:49 AM

STARRBABY

Quote:

7. It is not cheaper to buy American-made drugs (or any other product) in a foreign country than it is to purchase them in the US.

I don't know if you'll know the answer to this or not, but maybe you could point me in the rigt direction. Why are drugs so much more exspensive in the US? Are they taxed?
I've probably just shown the world my ignorace, but if you don't ask questions you don't get answers.

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Monday, April 11, 2005 11:03 AM

It's because the drug companies know the insurance companies will pay almost anything the drug companies will charge. I don't even want to begin the part about kickbacks to the insurance companies or the FDA...

Cospiracy Theorist Chrisisall

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Monday, April 11, 2005 1:22 PM

IMEARLY

If I were in charge.

Go sign my Guest Book,
http://www.geocities.com/thisbrownhouse
Then download Serenity,
http://homepage.mac.com/rocketplane/FileSharing8.html

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Monday, April 11, 2005 1:46 PM

Hey! All the lawyers in the world were at a meeting in Alaska when you did that!!

Lucky for us. Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:40 AM

If I were in Charge:

1) All Network and Cable News Media would be dissolved. All news would be generated via word of mouth, (at least this way we would get some truth somewhere).

2) It would be illegal to walk up to someone and take their picture without asking. If you are Papparazzi..you would be shot on sight. Right to Privacy isn't just for the non-celebrity.

3) If you are a magazine and you run stories on Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan or Michael Jackson, you will be fined a Bajillion dollars for giving anymore glory to these people then they already have.

5) No politician shall be a millionaire. All current politician's assets seized to feed the hungry and destitute. Halfway houses will be opened appropriately to meet the Said politician's and politician's family's needs.

6) Ted Kennedy would be forced to lose 1000 lbs.

7) George Carlin would be made President of the United States.

8) John Cleese would be Prime Minister of England.

9) California would be given back to Mexico along with Texas.

10) Marijuana would be legalized along with all hardcore drugs. Anyone who wants them will be provided with them free of charge. It will be filmed as a documentary and titled "Natural Selection at it's best".

11) Anyone who holds any stock in an Oil company or refinery or owns a Gas station, will have all their assets seized and be forced to work at McDonalds for the remainder of their time on this planet. Gas shall be distributed free of charge until it is gone. After that, all vehicles will be melted down and made into bicycles. The bicycles will be given to all licensed drivers. If you can't ride a bike..then you are SOL.

Thats all for now..

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:43 AM

I can live with all that, Connorflynn.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:51 PM

PIRATEJENNY

I would start off with a basic standard of living for everyone that would be acceptable...I would eradicate homelessness , I believe they have a simular program in Germany!!

recycling would be mandatory..or you would be fined.

Universal healthcare

and I defintely like the idea of not for profit insurance companies

I would definetly make some changes to the education system, teaching children another language at an earlier age is a good one.I would put that into place as mandatory teaching

enviromental classes would be a regular part of the curiculum so would computers and techical classes starting from an early age

government would be a regular part of school curiculum that was on going along with math science , computer, language, eviromental

state run University would be free to anyone who was qualified to go

anyone who didn't pass or didn't want to go to unvirsity could go into a trade

you would have to take a standard test before you were allowed to vote

I would defintely legalize drugs and prosittution, with madatory controls and it would also be a regular part of school curiculum, teaching about the ill effects and problems that drugs cause this way..people would grow up with an understanding of just how harmful drugs are!!

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 3:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I would start off with a basic standard of living for everyone that would be acceptable...I would eradicate homelessness , I believe they have a simular program in Germany!!

recycling would be mandatory..or you would be fined.

Universal healthcare

and I defintely like the idea of not for profit insurance companies

I would definetly make some changes to the education system, teaching children another language at an earlier age is a good one.I would put that into place as mandatory teaching

enviromental classes would be a regular part of the curiculum so would computers and techical classes starting from an early age

government would be a regular part of school curiculum that was on going along with math science , computer, language, eviromental

state run University would be free to anyone who was qualified to go

anyone who didn't pass or didn't want to go to unvirsity could go into a trade

you would have to take a standard test before you were allowed to vote

I would defintely legalize drugs and prosittution, with madatory controls and it would also be a regular part of school curiculum, teaching about the ill effects and problems that drugs cause this way..people would grow up with an understanding of just how harmful drugs are!!

Just out of curiosity what would that "Basic Standard of Living" mean exactly? In China and the old USSR and North Korea, they have a Basic Standard of Living LOL. Everyone is poor except for those that are in power.

I think for centuries people have hoped for a perfect Utopian society. It will never happen.

The elimination of Homelessness is pretty interesting too. How exactly is Germany doing this? Is it by forcing them to move to other countries or locking them away in hospitals? Just curious hehe ;)

Most of the other stuff is interesting. Totalitarian maybe..but interesting.

PS.. In addition to the other things I posted above, If I were in Charge:

1) I'd force all fat people to watch all the skinny models be force fed Jello Pudding, McDonalds French Fries and Chicken Nuggets.

2) Kevin Federline would be banished to France. They deserve him.

3) Firefly would be played weekly and Joss Whedon would have a statue erected in his Honor.

4) T-shirts with "I'll be in my Bunk!" will be distributed free of charge.

5)The North Korean Dictator Kim Jong Il will be forced to watch non-stop, every season of the Simple Life with Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie. He shall be offered a pistol so he can freely take his life when ever he feels he can't take anymore.

6) Theresa Heinz Kerry will be forced to undergo Psychological Testing.

7) Hip Hop artists will have to get real Jobs and Country Music Artists will be forced to sing happy Songs.

8) David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar will have to fight to the death. The Winner will once again be lead singer for Van Halen and they will go on a 30 year tour.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:44 AM

Welcome, PirateJenny. I see you decided to visit a thread where you're not called names and made fun of 'cause you're not old. You take the abuse well. (I don't agree with all of your theories, but you're way more ON the mark than you are off of it)

Stay a while, take a rest. Save your strength before you go back to dukin' it out with them Bush-worshipers.

I'm mostly with ya Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
McDonald's workers make 25,000/yr

No McDonald’s worker should ever be paid this much. That they are paid as much as they are is a disgrace. Minimum wage is too good for some jobs.

Education:
Uniforms would be required in all public schools.

Summer vacation will be eliminated. Students will attend school all year, with several holiday breaks, including Christmas break, which will be called Christmas break.

An athletic program will be strictly practiced. School lunches will include only healthy foods.

All students will be required to use the words "Sir" or "Ma'am" when addressing their teachers or elders.

The Pledge of Allegiance will be required to be cited at the beginning of every school day. Children must stand and place their right hand over their heart. Hats will be removed. Children may opt not to stand if they are crippled. Children may opt not to recite the Pledge if they are physically incapable of doing so, choosing not to do so will be prohibited.

The Pledge of Allegiance may include the words “under God” or not, to be decided by the legislators of the individual states. The courts, including federal courts, will be stripped of hearing any more ‘under God’ cases by academic fruitcakes with too much time on their hands. In fact, academic fruitcakes will pretty much be striped of bringing anymore “lets-change-the-law-of-the-whole-fucking-country-because-I-somehow-have-decided-that-I-should-have-the-right-to-tell-the-whole-country-how-to-think” cases.

Prayer will be allowed in public schools for any religion when and where it does not interfere with classes. “Feeling left out” will not be an excuse for religious intolerance.

A strict curriculum will be established for students in public schools. At the end of the year a passing grade on a comprehensive test administered by an independent firm will be required to pass. This curriculum must include mathematics up to calculus, science with an emphasis on physical science; world and American history without input by academic fruitcakes; finance and economics, as well as English rhetoric, grammar, vocabulary, literature etc. A foreign language will be optional but encouraged. This is not an exhaustive list.

Public school teachers will be paid based on how well their students do on these tests. Also public school teachers will be required to recertify every year by taking their own comprehensive end of the year test administered by an independent firm. Teachers who fail this test will lose certification and will be placed on a 3-month probation pending the adequate completion of a new test. Failure to pass said make-up test will result in loss of teaching license and job for one year after which the former teacher may seek recertification. Losing certification three times will result in permanent revocation of license. The former teacher may appeal once.

No person or persons working in a non-teaching administrative capacity within the public school system to include principles, vice-principles, members of the board, etc, will be paid any higher then the teachers.

All American families with public school age children will be supplied a voucher for each of the children to be redeemed for one year of public or private education.

Private schools will not be subject to the above requirements.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:04 PM

Boy, you really thought this out.

And I was just thinkin', you pay McDonalds workers more, the food would be better...

The short-sighted Chrisisall

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Boy, you really thought this out.

I adlibbed most of it.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And I was just thinkin', you pay McDonalds workers more, the food would be better...

Maybe. But is it really worth making it better?

“Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for right now, for your sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality item from me.”
-- Tommy Callahan

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Education:
Uniforms would be required in all public schools.

An athletic program will be strictly practiced. School lunches will include only healthy foods.

All students will be required to use the words "Sir" or "Ma'am" when addressing their teachers or elders.

The Pledge of Allegiance will be required to be cited at the beginning of every school day. Children must stand and place their right hand over their heart. Hats will be removed. Children may opt not to stand if they are crippled. Children may opt not to recite the Pledge if they are physically incapable of doing so, choosing not to do so will be prohibited.

Though I agree that summer vacation is an antiquated idea, I'm curious as to why you think the rest of it is necessary.

Quote:
The Pledge of Allegiance may include the words “under God” or not, to be decided by the legislators of the individual states. The courts, including federal courts, will be stripped of hearing any more ‘under God’ cases by academic fruitcakes with too much time on their hands. In fact, academic fruitcakes will pretty much be striped of bringing anymore “lets-change-the-law-of-the-whole-fucking-country-because-I-somehow-have-decided-that-I-should-have-the-right-to-tell-the-whole-country-how-to-think” cases.

"Academic fruitcakes" aside, how do you justify forcing one deity, however popular, on an entire population? The words "under God" are, at best, a symbol of religion dictating its morals and rules on a diverse population...indeed, the major religions deciding that they "have the right to tell the whole country how to think". Most (except maybe a few who do have too much time) would not make an issue of a few words that mean little if it wasn't just one of many larger issues. So I could appreciate your rule only if it has a counterpart that protects the "fruitcakes" as well.

Quote:
A strict curriculum will be established for students in public schools. At the end of the year a passing grade on a comprehensive test administered by an independent firm will be required to pass. This curriculum must include mathematics up to calculus, science with an emphasis on physical science; world and American history without input by academic fruitcakes; finance and economics, as well as English rhetoric, grammar, vocabulary, literature etc. A foreign language will be optional but encouraged. This is not an exhaustive list.

I wasn't aware that world and American history had input by "academic fruitcakes". Please clarify.

Also, who will set the standards of the tests? The independent firm? Will the entire curiculum be geared toward this test and then how will you deal with the problem of rigid structure on developing creative and intuitive thought?

Quote:
All American families with public school age children will be supplied a voucher for each of the children to be redeemed for one year of public or private education.

I don't follow your reasoning. Is this voucher good for either/or? How would paying for one year help except that all students will experience one year of private education (as it is more for your free coupon) and the private schools will be overrun? Where will this money come from and why do people who can afford school require one free pass?

Nice quote, btw.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 3:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
Though I agree that summer vacation is an antiquated idea, I'm curious as to why you think the rest of it is necessary.

Discipline, health, teamwork, self-confidence.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
"Academic fruitcakes" aside, how do you justify forcing one deity, however popular, on an entire population?

Students will be free to believe in whatever deity they choose or none at all. The state however should be democratic in its administration.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
I wasn't aware that world and American history had input by "academic fruitcakes". Please clarify.

A full treatment would be well outside of the scope of this discussion, and probably this board, but I’ll quickly summarize a few points I personally have noticed: The supposed smallpox genocide of Native Americans. The supposed racism and religious intolerance of early American settlers. The Founding Fathers were supposedly not Christian. Constantine didn’t make Christianity a Roman Religion or if he did he did it purely for “political” reasons. The Crusades were fought by evil Christendom against apparently fuzzy and wholesome Islamic invaders. Fruitcake Academia is awash with speculative history, which while often not widely accepted among the non-Fruitcake Academics, still finds its way into the broader spectrum of American popular culture. I’m not an historian, but I see the same thing happening in my own field, (e.g. global warming) I don’t doubt that any of this would make for good discussion at the top level of the debate, but not at the bottom, where this kind of speculative stuff only serves to confuse the issue. Teach the basics first, leave theory for college.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
Also, who will set the standards of the tests? The independent firm? Will the entire curiculum be geared toward this test and then how will you deal with the problem of rigid structure on developing creative and intuitive thought?

Standards will be set by government appointed administrators. And I’ll happily accept rigid structure in place of stupid, unruly and often dangerous public high schools.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
I don't follow your reasoning. Is this voucher good for either/or? How would paying for one year help except that all students will experience one year of private education (as it is more for your free coupon) and the private schools will be overrun? Where will this money come from and why do people who can afford school require one free pass?

1. yes

2. huh? I don’t think I completely understand where you’re going with this question, but private schools will adjust.

3. Where does it come from now?

4. Do we we give tax money back to people who don’t have children or who currently afford to send their children to private schools?

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
Nice quote, btw.

Thank you.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:46 PM

Quote:
Discipline, health, teamwork, self-confidence.

While healthy food is a given, the other things that you listed don't logically lead to those qualities in a person, as I see it. It seems to me that uniforms and formal address of elders is designed to encourage discipline; however, as they are designed only for that reason and transperantly so, rather than creating discipline it would encourage students to a) rebel within the system or b) be more rebellious outside the system just as many children loathe the reason "Because I said so" from their parents. It does not encourage self-confidence, in my opinion, as it suggests mistrust on behalf of the elder. In the case of uniforms, it denies the right to individuality (which is not the same as the right to wear obnoxious and/or offensive clothing) and in the case of address, it further distances the students from those who are expected to reach them on an intellectual level, which can be a very personal, very passionate thing.

Furthermore, it never gives the student the chance to learn respect for themselves (often seen through choice of clothing) within a place filled with judgemental peers.

I can tell you from personal experience that an athletic program doesn't not inspire any sort of teamwork in those who are forced to participate. The health factor is important; however, I would not place this above any academic needs of any student. If the athletic program is worthwhile enough, I believe the students will volunteer to participate and be much more active for it, creating self-confidence in that they are doing something they wish to do, rather than being forced to do something in a way that creates a mentality that they are more likely to fail with and thus lowering their self-confidence.

As to the Pledge...I believe forcing anyone to say the Pledge, much less small children, goes against everything this country should stand for. Pride must be earned, not forced and I believe something so small as being denied the
right to express your pride in your country when you so choose leads to a lot of bitterness.

Quote:
Students will be free to believe in whatever deity they choose or none at all. The state however should be democratic in its administration.

The point is not whether or not the administration should be democratic but that the administration should have nothing to do with it. The 1st amendment, as you well know, guarentees the freedom of religion (AND the freedom not to have any religion at all). By granting the administration (a representative of all people) the right to incorporate religion into its symbols, its leaders, and its laws on the basis of a majority rules mentality violates the very point of having a government of all the people, not to mention the rights of the minority.

Quote:
A full treatment would be well outside of the scope of this discussion, and probably this board, but I’ll quickly summarize a few points I personally have noticed: The supposed smallpox genocide of Native Americans. The supposed racism and religious intolerance of early American settlers. The Founding Fathers were supposedly not Christian. Constantine didn’t make Christianity a Roman Religion or if he did he did it purely for “political” reasons. The Crusades were fought by evil Christendom against apparently fuzzy and wholesome Islamic invaders. Fruitcake Academia is awash with speculative history, which while often not widely accepted among the non-Fruitcake Academics, still finds its way into the broader spectrum of American popular culture. I’m not an
historian, but I see the same thing happening in my own field, (e.g. global warming) I don’t doubt that any of this would make for good discussion at the top level of the debate, but not at the bottom, where this kind of speculative stuff only serves to confuse the issue. Teach the basics first, leave theory for college.

Thank you for clarifying. I have noticed in schools in particular that history is taught in black and white, particularly in American history with the early Americans being able to do no wrong, which also tends to extend to
Europeans (with the exception of the Native Americans...that situation is usually treated with an "aww, that was bad" sentiment.)

I would like to see more diversity in cultures being presented in schools (I'm a big fan of the Egyptians and Mexica as interesting early cultures), as I know personally I never learned a thing about African history in school and very
little about Chinese history or Asia history at all, just that George Washington was the greatest guy ever, year after year after year...

And some of the things that invade popular culture...they should be left for high level debates and some should just be erased entirely. My favorite is that slaves built the pyramids. *rolls eyes*

Quote:
And I’ll happily accept rigid structure in place of stupid, unruly and often dangerous public high schools.

I think many valuable minds would be destroyed by doing so. I personally don't understand why high schools have to be unruly or dangerous at all. My solution would simply be to deny access to school for students who don't understand that they are in school for their own benefit. Suspend them without availability of make-up work and if that doesn't shock them straight by messing with their futures (grades need to mean something, of course), they don't deserve to attend a public or private school.

Quote:
1. yes

2. huh? I don’t think I completely understand where you’re going with this question, but private schools will adjust.

3. Where does it come from now?

4. Do we we give tax money back to people who don’t have children or who currently afford to send their children to private schools?

I still don't understand what, if anything, vouchers would accomplish, except to overrun private schools and take people's tax money away from funding public schools. I am against vouchers in general, btw. I believe we need to fix all schools, not just provide the opportunity for some to commute as a poor excuse for a solution.

Quote:
Thank you.

Do you actually know Latin? Everytime I look at "desiderat" it bothers me because it looks like it should be pluperfect and yet that translation would be awkward. Perhaps you would know if it is idiomatic? "Praeparet" bothers me too because we usually use paro, parare for prepare. Stupid jussive subjunctives.

Anyway, I have studying to do.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
The point is not whether or not the administration should be democratic but that the administration should have nothing to do with it. The 1st amendment, as you well know, guarentees the freedom of religion (AND the freedom not to have any religion at all). By granting the administration (a representative of all people) the right to incorporate religion into its symbols, its leaders, and its laws on the basis of a majority rules mentality violates the very point of having a government of all the people, not to mention the rights of the minority.

So the government should adopt an atheist position? The problem is that atheism is as much a religion. By interpreting the first amendment as meaning that the government must adopt atheism, you are effectively making atheism a state-sanction religion, which is precisely what the anti-establishment clause forbids. It’s a pickle.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
I still don't understand what, if anything, vouchers would accomplish, except to overrun private schools and take people's tax money away from funding public schools. I am against vouchers in general, btw. I believe we need to fix all schools, not just provide the opportunity for some to commute as a poor excuse for a solution.

Alright-y, I'll join in. Idealisms are always easy; everyone loves a terse, wholly meaningless "solution" where all they have to do is agree. I think we should fix all schools too. Sadly however, if we were actually going to do that, we would have already. “Fixing” education is just something we tell ourselves we’re going to do, not something we actually do. Meanwhile American children are attending schools that might be considered suitable education facility in the Bekah Valley. I think vouchers are the only solution that will work, because it takes the decision out of the hands of the politicians and the teachers’ unions. The prospect of losing students and money will be a much stronger motivator for improvement then giving them more money for not improving, and if nothing else, it gives children on opportunity at a better education.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
Do you actually know Latin? Everytime I look at "desiderat" it bothers me because it looks like it should be pluperfect and yet that translation would be awkward. Perhaps you would know if it is idiomatic? "Praeparet" bothers me too because we usually use paro, parare for prepare. Stupid jussive subjunctives.

I think it depends a lot on the century and region. Latin has not existed unchanged. It has many variations. But I’m not familiar enough with it to be able to critique the grammar or know if it is idiomatic. Sorry.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Wednesday, April 13, 2005 10:21 PM

Well, we made it a few days on the withholding judgement part. Not bad. Looks like the cat is out of the bag now, however.

SgtGump: I think your 40% figure is spot on. Me? I'd just flip a coin.

StarrBaby: Part of it is, IMO, what ChrisIsAll stated (charge what the market will bear). Another part is to recoup advertising costs. There's been a huge increase in prescription drug advertising (television and print). A third part is that the salespeople are spending a lot of money talking to doctors promoting the drugs. A fourth part is that they are trying to get as much money as possible before the patent runs out. The cost of generic drugs in the US is actually less than other countries (if I remember correctly). A fifth part is to pay for research. A lot of companies will come up with a solution to a problem that isn't really a problem, create a marketing campaign to convince the public that this is a problem and their drug is the best solution, wine and dine doctors so that they recommend the particular drug, and then try to sell as much as possible before the patent runs out and generic drug manufacturers get in on the action.

Which leads me to another thing I'd do if I was in charge: No advertising for prescription drugs (My grandparents send me a yearly subscription to Guideposts - which is targetted at an older demographic - and I'm constantly amazed at the percentage of each issue that is prescription drug advertisements.).

ImEarly: No wonder there's such a big flap over drilling under ANWR. There's chocolate under there!!

At least you left Hawaii (although I'm probably in your stomach right now - it's hard to tell if you got my section of California or not on your first bite).

ConnorFlynn: Where can I contribute for the Joss Whedon statue in my city?

It looks like the topic of resonance is going to be education so I'll just throw out some of my proposed changes in that area.

1. Every kid would be required to listen to (if available), memorize the words to, and sing the following songs (not an exhaustive list): The Pill by Loretta Lynn; This Land is Your Land (all verses) by Woody Guthrie; a smattering of Negro Spirituals, or even Marching Song of the First Arkansas (Colored) Regiment . Extra Credit: Alice's Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie.

2. Every kid would be required to listen to recordings of the following speeches: FDR's declaration of war with Japan, Reagan's Berlin Wall, MLK Jr's I have a dream, Malcolm X's By any means necessary (I had no idea he was talking about defending the right to vote until I heard the entire speech), JFK's inaugural address, and anything done by Churchill (My personal favorite is the End of the Beginning).

3. Required reading: Ernie Pyle's dispatches.

4. American humorist/philosophers that would be studied: Will Rogers and Mark Twain.

5. Active and Collaborative Learning.

6. Project: Interview someone who grew up during the Depression.

7. Build something. Take something apart. Draw.

* editted to add: How did the margins get so big?
** editted to add: I've long been fascinated about the origins of the Pledge of Allegiance (written by a socialist minister). Were you aware that the "under God" portion was added in the fifties following a campaign - part of a larger effort to contrast our country with the godless Soviet Union? Or that the original salute was done stiff-armed (this went out of style after the Nazi party used the exact same salute)?

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:12 AM

Did I ruin the withholding judgment thing? Sorry. I wasn’t thinking. Sometimes I’m too opinionated for my own good.

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
* editted to add: How did the margins get so big?
** editted to add: I've long been fascinated about the origins of the Pledge of Allegiance (written by a socialist minister). Were you aware that the "under God" portion was added in the fifties following a campaign - part of a larger effort to contrast our country with the godless Soviet Union? Or that the original salute was done stiff-armed (this went out of style after the Nazi party used the exact same salute)?

Yes.

No. But it doesn’t surprise me. The salute was adopted by the Nazis just like the swastika.

NATIONAL DEFENSE:
Citizenship at the federal level should be contingent upon successful completion of a 2 to 4 year military/government enlistment including proper use of a military rifle. States may also place such a burden on state citizenship.

All men (and women if they choose) between the ages of 18 and 30 who are citizens should be required to own and maintain a rifle unless they lose citizenship or can show reason why ownership of said rifle constitutes a peacetime hardship.

All such men and women will be required to use said rifle in the event of an invasion on US soil by a foreign entity.

Illegal use of said rifle may be a capital offense.

Individuals who are killed or hurt in the act of a committing a crime involving the illegal break-in of a private residence loose all rights to sue their intended victim. The victims of said crime may, at their discretion, kill or hurt aforementioned invader at anytime from the point of break-in to the point at which the criminal flees. The victim is not required to show that they had reasonable cause to believe that their lives were in danger.

Most gun control laws should be eliminated.

The next time some Canadian tries to paint the US as a fascist war-mongering nation, the entire US military including those currently stationed abroad will be deployed to the Canadian/American border, following which a massive air assault and ground invasion will establish (hours later) Canada as the 51st US state. The US will then eliminate states rights, mark off the 2nd Amendment, eliminate Christian symbolism, encourage secularism with an emphasis on some “new-age” pagan belief, socialize healthcare, increase taxes on the wealthy, keep social security ‘unprivatized,’ declare ourselves a “national socialism” and say things like it is “the duty of the state to provide for the individual.” Then we will begin to jail Catholic priests and systematically eliminate Jews and anyone else with a decided conservative opinion. Finally, we will reign in those evil corporations until they are firmly under government control, thereby finalizing our transition from a free capitalist and democratic state to a “fascist war-mongering nation.”

Afterwards we will withdraw and redeploy our troops to their previous locations, reestablish previous law, have a hardy laugh and say to the now desolate Canada, “That’s what a fascist war-mongering nations looks like. See the difference.”

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I would make citizenship contingent on reading comprehension at the eight grade level. In fact, I would make gun ownership contingent on reading comprehension!

A rifle in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And Finn's comment on atheism being a religion demonstrates my point!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As I work my way backwards thru the posts, I have to comment on how much Finn's vision of education sounds like Nazi Germany: uniforms, salutes, discipline, the transmission of traditional wisdom, and all the rest. Sounds very totalitarian. MY vision of education involves more thinking and questioning.

I like Conner's ideas better! Can we vote?

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
So the government should adopt an atheist position? The problem is that atheism is as much a religion. By interpreting the first amendment as meaning that the government must adopt atheism, you are effectively making atheism a state-sanction religion, which is precisely what the anti-establishment clause forbids. It’s a pickle.

No, the government should definitely not take the atheist position (if you can even define a single position and/or "religion" shared by all atheists, which I would argue you cannot).

I am simply saying that the government should recognize that you cannot force the ideals of one religion on a diverse population to which you can have promised a freedom of religion. This doesn't mean that the government should declare that there is no higher power, just as it should not sanction any one higher power represented by any one religion.

So really, it's not a "pickle" at all. If tomorrow the government made a law that said that all women had to use contraceptives, even when it went against their religion, I would oppose that law as much as I would oppose any law based on religious morals. If tomorrow the government said that all churchs must be closed in accordance with their atheist stance, I would stand opposed right alongside the religious population.

The first amendment was not meant to decide which religion that government should sanction (be it the most popular one or an anti-religion), it was meant to PREVENT the sanctioning of any religion or non-religion (read: atheism) by removing religion from the equation entirely, meaning that everyone is free to whatever religion and that no one is forced into a religion against their will by any law put forth by our government.

Quote:
Alright-y, I'll join in. Idealisms are always easy; everyone loves a terse, wholly meaningless "solution" where all they have to do is agree. I think we should fix all schools too. Sadly however, if we were actually going to do that, we would have already. “Fixing” education is just something we tell ourselves we’re going to do, not something we actually do. Meanwhile American children are attending schools that might be considered suitable education facility in the Bekah Valley. I think vouchers are the only solution that will work, because it takes the decision out of the hands of the politicians and the teachers’ unions. The prospect of losing students and money will be a much stronger motivator for improvement then giving them more money for not improving, and if nothing else, it gives children on opportunity at a better education.

There are two overarching problems with this. One, you underestimate the number of students that are attending terrible schools. My high school ranked second to last on money spent per student in my state. No one gave me a voucher and really, why would they? There was no place for me to go, much less the other 3000 students who were in the same situation. Vouchers are only capable of helping a very small percentage of students who are in the worst situations. But that's not where the problem ends.

The second problem is that the schools you are talking about...the lowest of the low...don't have any money to lose. Public schools below college level do not receive a significant percentage of their funds from their attending students, so losing students would probably help them as far as funding goes (less students to spend money on)...if those students had somewhere to go. If you're talking about state funding being taken from schools for low test scores, this is a vicious cycle...these schools have low test scores BECAUSE they are poor and their teachers sub-par because they are paid terribly...take more money away, you're just helping the problem along.

I am very much a realist and yes, I agree that fixing the education system is idealistic and would have already been done if we could do it without spending money. That is obviously a very idealistic, delusional dream. What hasn't been done already is actually properly funding the schools, paying teachers for their effectiveness (not just on preparing students for some unrealistic test) and raising standards for students, teachers, and particularly the administration, which must be held accountable for its actions.

And yes, politicians and unions take away from this possibility because they don't want to spend the money either...that would mean changing their agenda. And taxpayers don't want to pay more either and in the end, that is the real problem because the government is still a representative of the people. If taxpayers would stop being fooled by smokescreens and demand accountability in their government AND (this is very important) realize that some things are worth the price, we could fix education.

And it wouldn't even hurt that badly if some other areas of government would made more efficient...but that is another story.

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:07 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Just out of curiosity what would that "Basic Standard of Living" mean exactly?

a basic standard of living would simply be that even the poorest would have decent housing, food, and healthcare

the standard wouldn't be homelessnes or third world living conditions..everyone would be gauranteed at least a decent safe clean place to live, food, and healthcare!!

the quality of a persons life, would actually mean something!!!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:14 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Welcome, PirateJenny. I see you decided to visit a thread where you're not called names and made fun of 'cause you're not old. You take the abuse well. (I don't agree with all of your theories, but you're way more ON the mark than you are off of it)

Stay a while, take a rest. Save your strength before you go back to dukin' it out with them Bush-worshipers.

I'm mostly with ya Chrisisall

LOL

I hear you!!!

what can I say, I'm just me..and I'm going to continue to be me , I'm certainly not going to try to be something I'm not and if someone doesn't like it then they don't have to read my post, its really that simple

I'm not claiming to be the most educated or the most articulate, I know what I know if you know what I mean, and its as simple as that!!!

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Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:56 PM

No worries, Finn. It looked like we'd about run the course in terms of concept generation so the time for withholding judgement was at an end. I was actually pretty surprised that we made it for four days.

My main goal was just to try an experiment to see what kind of space we could create in terms of proposed solutions. So I was hoping for just a huge number of suggestions (leaving practicality aside for the moment). It's been my experience that the nucleus of creative and realistic solutions are often discovered following the suspension of judgement. I figured (based on the observation that fireflyfans are a pretty diverse bunch representing a shitload of knowledge) we could cast a wide net.

Sometime over the weekend I'll do some content analysis of what we came up with (probably something pretty simple influenced heavily by alcohol: typing up sentence summaries, cutting them out, and then moving them around on a table and grouping them to see what categories drop out). Since we already appear to have gelled around the category of education that's probably where I'll stop. If I were doing this for real we would then negotiate some metrics to apply to some of the more realistic proposals to help in deciding what to move forward on in more detail. That's the point where judgement is brought back in.

Basically, I was just curious to see how well an effective mechanical engineering design process translated to asynchronous political design. I made some initial modifications (no shared definition of the problem space, benchmarking pretty much assumed, etc.) and kind of just jumped straight to the middle of conceptual design.

And I left out the squirt guns.

---------------------
Next up: Early "Nutcrusher" Jubal and the Firebuggers

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Friday, April 15, 2005 2:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
Quote:
Just out of curiosity what would that "Basic Standard of Living" mean exactly?

a basic standard of living would simply be that even the poorest would have decent housing, food, and healthcare

the standard wouldn't be homelessnes or third world living conditions..everyone would be gauranteed at least a decent safe clean place to live, food, and healthcare!!

the quality of a persons life, would actually mean something!!!

Okies..sounds good:) A few questions first:

1) What constitutes Decent housing and food though? After all each person has their own definition of decent food and housing. If Bill Gates or Bill Clinton had to eat the food I eat and Live in the House I live in..they would both commit suicide. If I had to eat the food and live in the House that Richard Simmons lives in, I would probably commit suicide.

2) How much space will EACH housing unit take up? Will we have to clear forests to build these decent houses? Who exactly gets to build these houses? Will there be grass? Do we get to have pets too? Can we say no to having pets?

3) Does each person get their own room AND bathroom in this decent housing? What do we get in these rooms?

4) What amenities are we all entitled to? Big Screen TV WITH Digital Cable? Surround Sound?

5) Washer and Dryer? Big or economy?

6) Computers in each room? Dell, Gateway or Alienware?

7) Dish Washer? Human washed or electronic?

8) Do we also each get a Decent vehicle to drive? My 2005 Grand Prix GTP is pretty decent

, Though I could really really get into one of those new Ford GT's

9) What do I have to do and how often, to get this decent Housing and Food? The less the better my Papa always says..

10) What can I have that noone else is entitled to? What do I have to pay to have this entitlement?

PS.. Nachos with Beef and peppers hopefully shows up on your list of decent food?! *begs and pleads

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Friday, April 15, 2005 2:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I would make citizenship contingent on reading comprehension at the eight grade level. In fact, I would make gun ownership contingent on reading comprehension!

A rifle in the hands of an idiot is a dangerous thing!

Hehe..only 8th Grade reading level? Does that mean that all 8th graders get to vote and own guns?

Personally, a rifle in the hands of a deranged genius is a dangerous thing as well:)

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Friday, April 15, 2005 2:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Basically, I was just curious to see how well an effective mechanical engineering design process translated to asynchronous political design. I made some initial modifications (no shared definition of the problem space, benchmarking pretty much assumed, etc.) and kind of just jumped straight to the middle of conceptual design.

If only we had some Mechanical Engineers working for us. Some of our biggest problems are a lack of proper engineering methodology. We’re all physicists; academics classically trained in purist physics. Not a single one of us knows how to think in terms of simple top-down engineering design. Always the big picture with us. But I digress.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Friday, April 15, 2005 7:19 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

SOUP: WAIT!!! The idea is great, the timing... well, it IS just before tax time. Been too busy with taxes and IEPs and helping out a friend and getting my car fixed to give this any thought whatsoever. But I have lots of ideas. Hang out for another weekend.

Once we get past the brainstorming phase and the compilation phase, do we get to the tweaking and winnowing phase? (yuh? please??)

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Friday, April 15, 2005 8:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
My main goal was just to try an experiment to see what kind of space we could create in terms of proposed solutions. So I was hoping for just a huge number of suggestions (leaving practicality aside for the moment). It's been my experience that the nucleus of creative and realistic solutions are often discovered following the suspension of judgement. I figured (based on the observation that fireflyfans are a pretty diverse bunch representing a shitload of knowledge) we could cast a wide net.

Ah...I misread. I thought you wanted more volume to the explanations, not the number of ideas. If I had known what you had in mind...

Sorry for any inconvenience!

Quote:
Sometime over the weekend I'll do some content analysis of what we came up with (probably something pretty simple influenced heavily by alcohol: typing up sentence summaries, cutting them out, and then moving them around on a table and grouping them to see what categories drop out). Since we already appear to have gelled around the category of education that's probably where I'll stop. If I were doing this for real we would then negotiate some metrics to apply to some of the more realistic proposals to help in deciding what to move forward on in more detail. That's the point where judgement is brought back in.

Sounds cool.

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Friday, April 15, 2005 9:47 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Conner- that's assuming eight graders read at the eight grade level!!

Actually, as part of my proposal I would make voting contingent on eight grade reading comprehension AND age 25 limit! Same age limit for military service. Research has shown that the human brain is still developing and vulnerable to chemical and environmental insults until about 25. That's why it's so much easier to get hooked on smoking when you're 19 then when you're 25. 19-year-olds believe they will live forever- that's why they make such good cannon-fodder.

I would take a VERY hard look at the laws of incorporation. The original idea is that corporations would be synthetic persons- able to assume liability and so forth. But over the years, coporations have become "super persons":

ultra-favorable tax laws
limited liability
responsibilties narrowed to fiduciary duties
"super free speech" backed by billion$$
enhanced legal protection (if a corporation steals from you that's a misdemeanor, if you steal from a corporation it's an automatic felony)
no restraint on corporate invasion of your privacy

I'd either knock corporations down to individual rights, or bring individuals up to corporate rights, but at the moment it's not even a level playing field!

I'd probably eliminate IP laws. They've been abused by corporations and no longer serve the purpose specified in the Constitution. The promise of money does not motivate ground-breaking research. I would increase grants to universities instead, where the real developments occur.

I'd pull our troops out of Iraq in a heartbeat, and close most of our military bases abroad, and stop militarily interfering in foreign countries unless our interests were TRULY at risk. (None of this "spread democracy militarily" bullshit. You cna spread democracy in other, better ways.)

I would reduce the work week to 35 hours.

I would institute single-payer, universal health insurance. As it stands, the health insurance sector is bleeding the rest of our economy dry and making us uncompetitive. In addition to 10% profits, health insurance companies have 30% "administrative" costs and they provide no service whatsoever. Also, the government as consumer could prolly negotiate a 15-20% reduction in medication costs. If we could provide health insurance with the same efficiency/ economies of scale as we do Social Security (6% admin costs) - and I see no reason why not- we would ALL get health insurance at less aggregate and per capita cost.

I would institute national standards of health care.

I would define "free speech" as the speech you do not have to PAY to distribute. That means standing on the street corner or opining on the inet. Anything else is "advertising".

Lots and lots more money for education. We SAY we're for education- maybe we should put our $$ where our mouths are.

SIMPLIFY THE TAX CODE. Give individuals and corporations the same breaks: Any entity (whether it is a family, business or farm( taking in less than $50,000 per year pays no taxes whatsover.

RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE. The economy is pulled by demand far more than it is pushed by investment. Consumer spending makes up 70% of the GNP. Despite the mantra of "trickle down", our fearless leaders in government know that. Look at what happened in the weeks immediately following 9-11- it suddenly became our patriotic duty to shop till we drop!!

I would seriously look at the whole concept of stock ownership. Publically-traded companies are under tremendous pressure to show quarterly profits which makes it very difficult to pursue long-term market or product development.

More to come!

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Friday, April 15, 2005 9:53 AM

A couple of special ones:

Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, and Madonna will be banned from ever singing again. All of their albums and singles, to include CDs, Vinyl, cassettes, eight-track, electronic tape, DVD, or any other medium, including all electronic copies of said, will be confiscated. They will be ground down until no single piece is larger the one cubic millimeter, then they will be mixed with equal quantities by volume of magnesium shavings which will then be burned in a furnace with an oxygen rich environment. The ashes will be separated by molecular weight, flushed with tritium and sealed in steel reinforced lead canisters with garlic and holy water, which will then be encased in concrete no less then one meter thick. The concrete blocks will be buried one thousand meters below a mountain in the deserts of Arizona, which will then be filled in with concert, surrounded by an electric fence and populated with rabid, giant, flesh-eating, mutant rodents.

All Hollywood “activists” who complain about the environment and SUVs will immediately have all vehicle(s) with engine(s) greater then 2L/4cyl auctioned off. The proceeds of which will go to industries earmarked for environmentally friendly upgrades. Then all housing of any kind above a total of 1500 square feet will be confiscated and either donated to churches, homeless shelters and/or orphanages or be torn down for material to be donated to the Fannie Mae Foundation. The aforementioned activists may never again own a car or car(s) exceeding a total of 2L/4cyl engines or a house or house(s) exceeding a total of 1500 square feet.

Addendum: (16apr05 1203h - 1803Z)
And Norah Jones, Billy Joel, Ray Charles, Frank Sinatra, Waylon Jennings, Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, Dean Martin, Aerosmith and the Beatles will be declared Saints and receive the Nobel Prize in Music.

Also we will create a Nobel Prize in Music.

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Friday, April 15, 2005 10:10 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, and Firefly would be back as a series!!

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Friday, April 15, 2005 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Conner- that's assuming eight graders read at the eight grade level!!

Actually, as part of my proposal I would make voting contingent on eight grade reading comprehension AND age 25 limit! Same age limit for military service. Research has shown that the human brain is still developing and vulnerable to chemical and environmental insults until about 25. That's why it's so much easier to get hooked on smoking when you're 19 then when you're 25. 19-year-olds believe they will live forever- that's why they make such good cannon-fodder.

I would take a VERY hard look at the laws of incorporation. The original idea is that corporations would be synthetic persons- able to assume liability and so forth. But over the years, coporations have become "super persons":

ultra-favorable tax laws
limited liability
responsibilties narrowed to fiduciary duties
"super free speech" backed by billion$$
enhanced legal protection (if a corporation steals from you that's a misdemeanor, if you steal from a corporation it's an automatic felony)
no restraint on corporate invasion of your privacy

I'd either knock corporations down to individual rights, or bring individuals up to corporate rights, but at the moment it's not even a level playing field!

I'd probably eliminate IP laws. They've been abused by corporations and no longer serve the purpose specified in the Constitution. The promise of money does not motivate ground-breaking research. I would increase grants to universities instead, where the real developments occur.

I'd pull our troops out of Iraq in a heartbeat, and close most of our military bases abroad, and stop militarily interfering in foreign countries unless our interests were TRULY at risk. (None of this "spread democracy militarily" bullshit. You cna spread democracy in other, better ways.)

I would reduce the work week to 35 hours.

I would institute single-payer, universal health insurance. As it stands, the health insurance sector is bleeding the rest of our economy dry and making us uncompetitive. In addition to 10% profits, health insurance companies have 30% "administrative" costs and they provide no service whatsoever. Also, the government as consumer could prolly negotiate a 15-20% reduction in medication costs. If we could provide health insurance with the same efficiency/ economies of scale as we do Social Security (6% admin costs) - and I see no reason why not- we would ALL get health insurance at less aggregate and per capita cost.

I would institute national standards of health care.

I would define "free speech" as the speech you do not have to PAY to distribute. That means standing on the street corner or opining on the inet. Anything else is "advertising".

Lots and lots more money for education. We SAY we're for education- maybe we should put our $$ where our mouths are.

SIMPLIFY THE TAX CODE. Give individuals and corporations the same breaks: Any entity (whether it is a family, business or farm( taking in less than $50,000 per year pays no taxes whatsover.

RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE. The economy is pulled by demand far more than it is pushed by investment. Consumer spending makes up 70% of the GNP. Despite the mantra of "trickle down", our fearless leaders in government know that. Look at what happened in the weeks immediately following 9-11- it suddenly became our patriotic duty to shop till we drop!!

I would seriously look at the whole concept of stock ownership. Publically-traded companies are under tremendous pressure to show quarterly profits which makes it very difficult to pursue long-term market or product development.

More to come!

*Rubs eyes*
*reads again*
*Rubs eyes*

Holy Cripes!! Signym..I think this is the first time I've ever read anything of yours that didn't have something I disagreed with in it. Well written and said!

PS:

If I were in Charge:

1) Bono would get Knighted.

2) Richard Gere would have his tongue removed along with that Gerbil he is rumored to be hiding in his nether regions.

3) Excellence in education would be rewarded, not dumbed down.

4) Everyone would be required to read " A Wrinkle in Time".

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Friday, April 15, 2005 10:24 AM